185 Miles South
A hardcore punk podcast.
185 Miles South
234. June 2024
We're back and talking hardcore.
1. New stuff: Face The Pain, Canal Irreal, No Idols
2. Old School: Chronic Sick S/T 7"
3. Trivia: Dan (Champ) vs. Ben (Challenger)
4. Big Frank talks Uniform Choice
5. Interview: Martín Stewart (Terror/Sound & Fury)
Check out the website for our playlists, links, and SMASH that Patreon button:
185milessouth.com
We are also on Substack:
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Martín/Terror photo: @ellie_alonzo
Intro song: Pura Manía
Outro song: Rebel Truth
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SPEAKER_00:com smash that patreon
SPEAKER_07:button 185 miles south a hardcore punk rock podcast. What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, we are back and talking hardcore, helping out. You know him. You love him. It's six foot two. What you going to do? It is the mighty, mighty Posse. Chris, what's up, Chris? What's cracking? What is going on? Dude, we're recording this before it happens, but Tara's playing slow. That's pretty sick, huh? Dude, I'm super psyched.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:They're doing some pretty off-market stuff this time around. Tonight when we're recording, they're playing Yuma, Arizona. That is so
SPEAKER_06:sick. Awesome.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, I thought about making the drive, but it's hard on a weeknight to do six hours round trip in a car, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, the lineup's cool, too. It's No Warning Shots and Bears, who are really good, active locals, super nice kids. And then Berthold City, which is semi-local. Dennis and Glenn live up here, and they're both in that band. And then Cosmic Joke and Terror, so it should be a wild one. Dude, Bandit Joe.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, sick. Sick. Yeah. You know, right before the pandemic, one of the last shows I saw was terror outside in Ventura and it was, it was wild. So, uh, sometimes outdoor shows work. I'm, I'm not really a fan generally just cause like they don't sound as good, you know, but like, dude, I've never heard terror sound bad. So that's that, you know? No doubt. Hell yeah. Okay. I want to get right into the new stuff. We're going to crank through the episode this week. And before we dive in deeper to some things, I wanted to rail off a bunch of newer stuff that either Chris or myself liked a lot. And we're not going to have time to talk about. But first off, that alienator time to die seven inch. They put out one of the best seven inches of the last year. And here they are bringing the heat again. Also, bootlicker. They put out another 12 inch, the thousand yard stare on neon taste. That was one of Clevo's favorites. I can't remember if it was last year or the year before, but yeah, they're back and it sounds sick too. Also, End of Days, they just put out an EP called Searching for a Way. It's a split release between Creator Destructor and Code of Conduct. They are from the Pacific Northwest. That is Chris's old stamping ground and I believe we talked about him on the pod maybe two years ago, Chris, when they did the demo of a previous EP. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I know we've talked about them before. Matt, their guitar player, played in Change as well for a bit. So super good homies. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. So hell yeah. Okay. Also, Forced Humility. This is a band out of Finland, recommended by Staffan, friend of the pod, in a rare moment where a Swede recommends something Finnish. So you know it's got to be good. And it rips. Uh, it is on Mendeco disc act. And I hope that a distro in America gets it. Cause I would like to get this on vinyl also home invasion. They put out an LP on war records, uh, called enemy. And it is to my ear, which, uh, I don't have the best ear for the, like the super fast, like bordering on power violence music. It sounds a lot like that world of hate or the world. I hate record that, uh, Chris, you big up last year. And, uh, Yeah, and it's on the same label. So what's up? War Records bringing the heat. Man With Rope. This is a band out of St. Louis, members of No Thanks and some others. Kind of a tragedy meets Modern Life Is War. They put out an EP called Multiply, Expand, Consume. Self-released, so check that out. Missing Link. They just put out an LP on Triple B. Lots of mosh, lots of riffs, lots of mosh riffs. Lots of riffs and moshing. And the dude just has a savage-ass voice. So if you're looking for that, this is top of the line of that style. I need to dig into it a little more because it is super riffy. But yeah, okay. A friend of the pod, Austin, from Praise. Praise is putting out a new 7-inch. It just came out last Friday on Revelation Records. It is called Can You Come Up For Air? So you can check that out streaming now and be sure to order that. I will be doing it and you should too. Also, there's a 7-inch by a band called Pura Mania. They put out a record called Extraños Casos de la Vida Real on Roach Lake Records. And dude... Again, this is a record I absolutely love. It is not on streaming. You got to check it out on band camp. It's like very melodic. Oi out of Vancouver sang in Espanol. If you are looking to scratch that itch that like those Freud bands that we talk about satisfy, this is like right in that lane. I love this thing. I need to, We'll be right back. Finally, Walk Alone. This is a band with Tyler from Inclination and members of his other old band, Another Mistake. They put out a self-titled EP on LDB, so check that out. And then finally, there were singles that came out by Chubby and the Gang, High Viz and Nails. You know what to expect. They all delivered. That's what's up. And Chris mentioned it earlier, but generally this is a metalcore-free podcast, but we do got to shout out Bears from Slow. Yeah. They put out the Born to Lose LP, self-released, and handle business. You know, there's a lot of people listening to this podcast that love Metalcore. I don't have an ear for it, but check them out because they're good dudes, like Chris said, and they bring the heat on this record. And you know what's up with Born to Lose, Retaliate, 2002, 2006. What's up? Okay, Chris, did I get anything wrong there?
SPEAKER_03:I didn't catch anything wrong. Sounds good. There's a lot in there, though, man. Some heat coming at you this summer.
SPEAKER_07:Dude, every month there's so much shit. And yeah, everyone, 185milesouth.com. Click the playlist link at the top of the page or just find us on Spotify. I'll put a song from each of those in the playlist for this week's episode, except for the bands that aren't on Spotify. So, hell yeah. Okay. Let's get into the new stuff. First off, we're going to talk a band called Face the Pain. They put out their demo 2024. It is coming out on vinyl on Rebirth Records. I ordered mine. You should order yours. This is 100% modern youth crew, which, dude, I don't give a fuck if it's good or not. I'm buying it and I'm supporting it. What do you think about this, Chris? Is it sick or is it pretty good or what is it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I dig it. I mean, like you, I think it was an instant buy as soon as I saw like the album artwork, you know, like that shade of blue, the guitar player jumping, you know, the band font in italics, like giving that impression of motion. Yeah, before I even heard it, I was like, yep, sign me up. And yeah, I like it a lot. Do you want me to get into it or you want to get into it first?
SPEAKER_07:No, jump right in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, first off, just like, yes, thank you. Thank you to these kids. You know, I wish there were more bands playing the style of hardcore. There has been a few popping up recently. So I'm hoping, you know, that continues. We get a little bit, a little bit more diversity and especially like this style. That's my favorite, but I don't know. And, you know, it's cool too, to see, group of kids from some of the the biggest like hard style bands right now doing it you know so it's like kind of gives it a bit of credibility versus like i don't know some old head like me trying to do it uh but uh i think this rips it's uh they're named after uh the first step song very tfs worshipy uh but there's some other influence in there i think uh um, worlds apart. The track is very floor punchy, especially with the bust right before the breakdown. Uh, the cost is a song that has like a ton of like brat mask chain style, Tom rolls, um, wrong idea. Like straight up reminds me of, of the song alone by keep it clear. And I'm, I'm super curious if they are referencing that song directly, or maybe like both of those bands are pulling from the same, you know, earlier, uh, source material on the timeline, but it's a dope track. The Cost is my favorite track. It's a ripper, super dynamic. It's the most furious song on this EP or this demo, which I think is super important for a youth crew is that ferociousness. You know, if it's lacking in this style of hardcore, it really becomes stale and feels way too clean cut and like, I don't know, not gritty. So like, I love that this song really adds that element. I like this a lot. If I'm going to be critical, Chris, Zach likes to say, I'm going to have a minor, a minor critique that they can, you know, hopefully build on. But like, I'm saying that with the caveat that I really like this and like, you know, at the end of the year, it's probably no doubt it's going to be on my favorites of 2024. So yeah, the songwriting, all the music or the, all the instruments are done really well. Um, but there's just something about the recording or the mix down that makes it sound like not quite as ferocious as I wish it sounded. Um, it sounds great. Like the recording is excellent, but like, there's just something, um, like a rawness that it's, it's ever so slightly missing. Um, And, and I think, you know, this is me being super nitpicky cause I really like this. I think this is like a tier hardcore. Um, and this like tiny nitpick would make it like a plus tier. Um, so I hope that like, you know, whatever they do next captures that little extra something that makes this like truly special instead of like, wow, this is a really freaking good demo. Um, just for like comparison sake, uh, So Mindsets, Leave No Doubt, to me, is maybe a top five straight edge hardcore record of all time. And it's because all the songs are great, but it sounds ferocious. Like... it's, it's just like raging. And there's something about the recording, something about like, it's just some magic in a bottle that was captured that makes it so furious, so ferocious. I just want to smash something when it comes off. And then mindset, they put out that EP after called nothing less, which is a great EP. Like the songs are awesome. They're, you know, they're really well done, but like, there's something in that recording that makes it not quite as ferocious as leave. No doubt. Um, And as, as a result, like that EP is just really good and not like an all time or like, I think leave no doubt is. So that's, that's my tiny critique is of this is like, I think for fans of like some of these kids, other bands like gridiron and scarab and like never ending game to fall in love with this band. Like they do, you know, those other bands, I think they're going to, have to capture that ferociousness to kind of steal some fans away into like the best style of, of the best genre of hardcore ever. Um, and like some of the members are in Scarab and, and that's a perfect example. Cause that band is so ferocious and, uh, yeah, I don't know. I love this. Uh, I hope, you know, please don't take any of that last thing I say as, as, um, you know, a heavy critique. I think this is awesome. It's one of my favorite things to come out this year. And I really hope I get to see them play. I hope this isn't just like a studio project and that they play shows and, and bring it live.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I actually like the recording kind of a lot, just that it's, it's so bright and you can tell that like they put their time in on this band, right? Like it's not a throwaway project. It doesn't seem like, I hope. In fact, I kind of, we're dancing around the same thing. I think that maybe some of it is like too deliberate. Like it, again, I'm not nip. We are nitpicking it. Right. Because this is what we want to see. I want to see like a glut of bands like this to the point of where I'm like, okay, stop the youth group bands. So when something like this comes along, like it's like, ah, it's so nice to see. Right. But again, the things that we like a lot, like sometimes we can be hypercritical of, and again, Yeah, just if there was a little bit more wildness to this, it would be like untouchable. You know what I mean? Where right now it's like very solid. It's like a really good demo for the genre, I think. But like, yeah, just a little more like ferocity and also, you know, just a little YOLO. Like it's okay to just cut the songs in half sometimes. You know, there's three songs that are over two minutes. Maybe just do a rule, never over 90 seconds. You know what I mean? But that's me being a psychopath. But the wrong idea, this is the best song on the record, I think. It's like 53 seconds. Fast, mid-tempo part, fast, out, sick. And those lyrics are kind of fucking biting, right? So if you think about a lot of the best floor punch songs, which is the band that kind of gets remembered the most fondly of that rebirth of hardcore era, like that the 97 revival, right. As some people call it youth revival, whatever the fuck, like a lot of their best songs that are memorable are like very biting to the lyrics. There's a little bit of meanness. Right. And like, if you think about youth of the day and you think about a lot of the bands, like they're fucking angry, dude, you know? And like, I think that as further and further, we've gotten away from like, can't close my eyes. Like that's, that's fallen off like a little bit, like the, the two thousands bands and so forth. Like they were a little less angry and stuff. And I don't know, that's all, this is, this is fucking killer, but like maybe the, okay. So there was that illiterate LP from last year that like literally sounds like eighties youth of the day. And like, yeah, maybe if there was just a little bit of that mixed in like this demo, plus that illiterate LP is like my favorite record of the year straight up. You know what I mean? So that's all. This is killer. Like I said, I ordered it. This thing bangs. It sounds great. It's easy to get through. I want to see the style come back, and these guys would be great flag bearers for it. So fucking stoked, dude. I hope that, like Chris said, they're a band. They play shows, and that's what's up. They last for at least a handful of years. And Rebirth Records, they're fucking batting 1,000 still. You know what I mean? I think I've ordered everything they put out. Everything's good. So what's up? Chris, you want to finish on this before we go to anything else?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think, you know, well said. Like, I'm super psyched on this band. I don't know. I also, like, pre-ordered it instantly. Also got a shirt. And so, yeah, I'm psyched to see what they do next and hopefully get to see them play. Because I think, you know, that song, what was it? The one that you were talking about that I said sounds like Keep It Clear, Walk Alone. Wrong idea. Wrong idea.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, that song is such like the cadence of the vocals on it is going to be like a huge dog pile song too. Like, and that's also something that's missing way too much in a hardcore. Like there are bands that have like singalongs, but it's like, like the big singalong bands are like tsunami and like pain of truth, which is awesome. Cause it reminds me of like going and see death threat back in the day. But like, um, I don't know. I just think it's funny that two of the hardest bands that are straight-up fight music are the sing-along bands, and then there's not a ton. I mean, Mindforce is another one. There's a few, but I don't know. I want to see more pile-ons where people are trying to get on top of each other and fighting to get on top and grab the mic. That's the funnest stuff.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, no horseshoe, right? Yeah. Yeah, you brought up The Cost as your favorite song. Again, I think that would have been my favorite song because I love when it breaks to the YOLO part. That is like that ferocity you're looking for. Yeah, it's like the YOLO part with the scissor beat. That's sick. But to my point, it didn't have to go back to that first riff, like the verse riff. They could have just not done the breakdown. You know what I mean? So I don't know. That's just my take on it. Anyway, whatever the fuck. These dudes, all their bands rip, so what's up? Okay, let's go on to Canal Irreal. They put out an LP called Someone Else's Dance on Beach Impediment Records. Dude, we're not talking any Froy this month, and I don't think we talked any last month. So you know we got to talk something that taps in to those dark vibes on some punk music. And this has really slid in nicely to my listening cue. I love this thing. It's the second LP by this band. I missed the first one that came around, and I didn't know that it was Martin from Los Crudos on vocals until after I was into this record, and what a fucking great surprise. Just as a caveat before I dive into this, we should make note that the Crudos demo came out in 91, and here's a dude putting out a spectacular record in the year 2024, and So sick. So sick. I'm a little like nervous to say that it sounds Chicago after like that song, Chicago, I'm not wanting anyone to reference Chicago, but like this might be his most Chicago sounding band in the way that like they tap into like, like that great lakes melody, right? Like the, the naked Ray gun, the effigies, the articles of faith, how like those bands, like they can play straightforward music, but there's just like this dark melody that flows through all of it. And if you want to like continue around the great lakes, like Husker do kind of like has the same thing, right? Like they're tapping into like, you know, those melodies aren't like all the major chord progressions and do it really well. And, and, I don't get a lot of this because I think that a lot of the bands that tap into these chord structures and stuff, they're maybe playing more down-tempo music. But what is so great about this record is the drumming fucking kicks ass, dude. This dude's right hand, I'm assuming he's right-handed, otherwise his left hand, his hi-hat hand is so fast, dude. And it just brings the heat and the backbone of this thing is just so solid. I believe it's a four piece. Like I think there's just one guitar track on the record and like the drums and the bass are so driving through this and create this backbone where the guitarist can just dance and jangle over the top of it. And then you have, you know, Martine's multi generational voice over the top of all of that. And it's, it's just spectacular. You know, if you like those Chicago bands I was talking about before, but like, this is like more all mid tempo banger. Um, maybe like that stuff mixed with the wipers would be the cop I'd say, but, uh, I don't know, dude, I absolutely love this thing. So, uh, yeah, that's where I land. What do you think, Chris?
SPEAKER_03:I also love it. And like you, I wasn't familiar with this band until actually, until you put on this playlist. Um, I think I'd seen the name around, but I hadn't really checked it out. But yeah, this is super good. And they play the style of street punk that I really have been loving over the last couple of years, super post-punk guitar tones and melodies. And it instantly kind of reminds me of Syndrome 81 and kind of in that lane of gloomy but pissed and still brick-throwing music. Um, there's a lot of kind of like phasory guitars and then like steady baselines holding it down with the drums while the guitars are like maybe a little bit more sparse and atmospheric at times or like going over like symbol or simple one string leads. Um, I don't know. I don't listen to a ton of post-punk. So I feel like, um, that's when it's great to have Dan on here because like I instantly, any like post sounding stuff, I go to joy division. Um, and that's why we need Dan on here to talk about like non joy division, post-punk influence. But, um, yeah, like some of this certainly reminds me of, of joy division. I like the wipers call out that you made, um, There's definitely, and this is more the street punk side, but there's definitely some blitz in here. The song 40 Chairs is super blitzy. Weirdly, the song Whispers, the bass line, the chord progression for the guitar is different, but the bass line reminds me a lot of the chord progression on Thin Line by Fury. which is one of my favorite modern hardcore riffs. It's a really long riff. It's like... And that bass line reminds me a lot of it. Vocals, Zach touched on. One thing you didn't call out that stood out to me is... I believe it's Martine doing both of these, but there's a couple of different styles of singing on here. Like one is a little bit more of like a gravelly street punk, like singing notes and the other is, is more screamed, but it's not like crudos or limperous. It's a little bit deeper maybe. Um, but, but it almost sounds like two different singers. Um, I don't know,
SPEAKER_07:but he sounds a little different, like on that. I failed song. you know, it's like super soulful. Um, but yeah, you know, one thing I wanted to call out was like that song feels like kind of an outlier. Um, cause it's like, I don't know. I guess they're all, I thought it was an outlier. And then I went in, I was like, is it really not really, but maybe it's a little more like vocal hooky than the other one. Which song are you talking about? Uh, I failed the third song. Yeah. But the real outlier is that song Chicago, uh, That song is like one of the best punk songs I've heard in the last 10 years. It's so sick, dude. I'll put it on the playlist. You guys should all check it out. But it's basically like he's talking on the verses about some dude hitting him up and be like, hey, are you from Chicago? And then going on and on about his city, tell him all these facts and shit. And the chorus is just him belting out, I don't care. I don't care. It's so fucking raw. And it's like one of those things when you tap into the most simple things in punk, but you're the first one to it is fucking gold. And that's this. And I love how like in the last verse, he like basically goes into like, well, what I know about is surviving in Chicago. He's like, I know like where to walk and what times of day. And I know like what to wear. So I don't get fucked up and like this and that. And it's like, well, that's like, the real shit about living there. You know what I mean? And this guy just knows like, Oh, the tourist facts from Wikipedia. You know what I mean? So like, I don't know. It's like one of those songs that hits on like multiple levels and it's just, you know, something that could only come out of like an all time dude. So, uh, yeah, I love it. What do you want to wrap on here, Chris?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I don't want to wrap on this because it's my minor, only minor, minor criticism again, like, um, face the pain. I really, really like this. So this is a super nitpick, but it's a bit long, like 30, 30 for 11 songs. I start to kind of lose attention towards the end, but this is really good. And I like it a lot. And it's been in my, it's now part of my regular rotation.
SPEAKER_07:I just wonder if like, it's going to be like four or five years until the next one comes out. You know, I think it was three years between releases last time. So, uh, I don't know. It's not a hardcore record, dude. So like kind of it being longer isn't a knock to me because like we might have a lot of time to sink our teeth into this one. And it's like one where I'm going to listen to a lot when I'm on long drives and so forth. So, uh, yeah. Well, like I don't, I don't ever want anyone to put out like a, a 30 minute fast hardcore record. Like this is just, it's different. Right. So I don't know, just my take. Okay, let's go on to the band. No Idols put out their demo. 2024 came out on designated moshers unit. Chris, you called out that this is members of Truth Cult, Bib, Angel Dust and Demand. Okay. We added this one late and it's funny cause it was at the end of the playlist. It was like after the old school segment that we're going to do in a minute. And it's funny because you know, when you're listening to a playlist on Spotify and like it ends, sometimes it kicks you off into like a recommendation and, And I was like, oh shit, what's this? It sounds sick. You know what I mean? And I went to check my phone and I was like, oh, it's no idols that we're going to talk about. So, cause like, I was like, fuck, I got to see what this is before like, you know, it moves on and I miss whatever the fuck. And yeah, dude, this is killer. I'm glad you found it. What do you think about it?
SPEAKER_03:So as much as the face, the pain demo is awesome and I really like it a lot and is like, a style that I love more than anything. This is my favorite demo of the year so far because it's absolutely ferocious. It totally rips. It sounds furious as hell. It's total boot hardcore, but it's gnarly. The vocals sound so burly. The recording's crisp and bright. Some bands that do this style... which is kind of like, I don't know, like I'm the negative approach tree, I guess. 86 mentality, maybe. Although I'm going to get to this in a second. It reminds me of Dead Stop more than anything. But a lot of bands that do this kind of style, when they have a really burly-sounding vocalist, they kind of go a little bit too Cookie Monster for me. But these vocals do not. They sound super crisp. They're super in-your-face, violent. I don't know. And it really makes it stand out. And I mentioned, I believe most of them, at least, are from the Baltimore, D.C. area. So I would assume they're probably going for an 86 mentality, like Aftermath style. But it's a tick faster than that. And I think for that reason, it reminds me more of Dead Stop. Just kind of like... I don't know, that off the rails kind of YOLO that Dead Stop brought so well. And it's not just all go or all stompy. It's really dynamic. There's lots of stops and starts, like some good tempo diversity. I don't know. I think this rips, like I said, my favorite demo of the year, probably my favorite musical output that I've heard this year. So between this and Face the Pain, two bands that you know, brand new demo bands that are putting out a first, first music and they're calling it a demo, which I think is also super sick. And I'm really psyched about them both.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I called out 86 mentality too, is like a reference. Although I don't know if that's completely accurate, but it's something like this modern, that's like not fast core. Dead stop is a really good call out to maybe like the fast chisel songs, you know, like something along that line. And yeah, I just want to call out again on this record. Like I think all three this time, but this one, like the drumming is so spectacular on this thing. Like it rips it. It's a backbone for like this fast, hardcore, like whoever this is playing hell. Yeah, dude, they're bringing the heat. And then also like the other thing is the guitar tone is not very distorted. So like when they do these fast parts, like, you really like feel the speed of the drumming because the drumming is not buried at all by a guitar tone. It's like a, a very like almost non distorted guitar tone. And it just sounds so savage with like the fast strumming and the fast guitar and the fast drumming. Also, there's some pretty good hooks on this dude for being like, A booty, fast, hardcore record. First song, The Stand for Something or Die with Nothing. Spine, Where's Your Spine on the second song. Mid-tempo banger, Play Yourself, the third song. Dude, I don't know. This is good. And then the fourth song is probably my favorite song, that struggle game. It gets like... Well, first of all, that first riff is very close to seeing red, but then they bust out of it right away and never do it again. So I don't know what's up with that. But like, dude, the chorus is like almost melodic in like the best way, right? Like they're not diving into octaves or anything. It's just a chord progression gets a little feely. But the drumming is still fast as fuck. The singing is still savage. And it's just this great juxtaposition of a fast part chorus that's so good. I love this thing, dude. I hope it comes out on final. I think it is on 7-inch right now. Excuse me. I think it's on tape only right now. But yeah, hopefully they do another EP. Throw this on one side. Throw the new EP on the other one. And dude, I'm an insta-buy. You know what I mean? I'm going to be in the first hundred people buying this thing. This thing is so good. I'm with Chris. I don't think that we're puffing this thing up. I don't think we're overrating this thing. I think this thing is as good as Chris says. And this is a spectacular demo, you know, one of the best demos, you know, in the last handful of years, straight up.
SPEAKER_00:I'm taking it back to the old school. Cause I'm an old fool. I'm taking it back to the old school. Cause I'm an
SPEAKER_07:old fool. All right, we are going old school. We're going to talk the chronic sick self-titled seven inch. It came out on mother records in 1983. This is a New Jersey band. Um, I believe that No Way Records re-released this maybe 15 years ago or so. They're floating around out there. That's what I have. I have a repress. I can't remember. I think that's what it is. They're around. It's also on Spotify and all that. I did a big project where I listened to a shit ton of seven inches that were like 1983 or earlier. Um, cause I had a theory that like most hardcore records that were pre 94 are like really good. And, uh, you know, I was wrong. There's a lot of bad stuff, but like it was sick. I came across a lot of shit that I really loved. And this is a spectacular old school, hardcore record. Um, the first and the third songs are, um, Out of this world. And yeah, Chris, let me get your take before I dive in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I wasn't familiar with this. So this is the first time I heard them. I didn't really like it on first listen. Actually, no, I shouldn't say that. I didn't really like it immediately out of the gates. But then by the time I got to the end of it, I was like, hold on. Actually, there's something there. Like, I think... the vocals sound a little bit echoey at times. And I think that's what kind of what I didn't really like, but it, it grew on me like really fast. And I think by the, by the time I was done and that third song is like undeniable, uh, first song is, is also really good. Second song. Crotch rot kind of threw me for a loop, but, uh, it's a cool song too. It's dumb, but it's, yes. it has some cool stuff on it. Like I didn't want to like it.
SPEAKER_07:Right. If that's, it's disappointing. Right. Because like, if that song was about anything that wasn't stupid, it would be like a great, great song. Cause like the melodies they tap into are great, but it's like, God damn, those lyrics are so fucking stupid. And you can just picture a fat Mike being like, Ooh, I can make a whole career out of this.
SPEAKER_03:I, I wasn't able to find the lyrics anywhere. And, and so I kind of, I don't know. Do you have the lyrics somewhere or just listening
SPEAKER_07:to it? No, just listening to it. So like, but it's, it's about like having a fucking STD, right? I don't know. No, that's what it is. Like I listened to it a bunch of times. It's like, Oh, they like, no one will have sex with him because it's fucking crotches rotting, blah, blah, blah. Like, yeah, that's dumb. yes it's dumb but anyway yeah the first song though is like the way it starts it's almost like dead kennedy's esque like very like atmospheric like just the bass and drums are going with like a you know it could almost be like a police truck or whatever you know i mean yeah like there's like the bass lines like it makes it almost kind of surfy a little bit Dude, it's so sick. And then it just blasts in to like full hardcore punk. And then that chorus, very fucking catchy. That Reagan bass, Reagan bass. Super good. And then the breakdown hits out of nowhere. I love when there's no like transition to a breakdown. It just comes right in. And it's also like a tick faster than you think it would be. So like it's just very intense, dude. This song rips. And then just break it into that last one, the Blood Type X. Like this is– straight up a pretty perfect, like hardcore punk song. Again, I think there's some gag lyrics on it, you know, like the, why won't you give me some fucking sex? I think the dude says, which is like, okay, but this thing rages. And I believe career suicide covered this. If I'm not wrong, I think they covered it on one of the records. But yeah, I don't know. Sick record. Just wanted to highlight it. Chris, you want to end on anything here?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, that last song, total accidental straight edge anthem, Blood Type X. Hell yeah. Yeah, and that song actually sounded super familiar. So maybe it was from a hearing career suicide do it. But yeah, dude, that song rips. The first song rips as well, although Blood Type X is probably my favorite. And then Crotch Rot. Lyrics aside is, is cool. Like it's kind of weird. Like it has a weird intro. That's like, I tried to listen through the song and see if it was something that they referenced later. And I couldn't really tell. Cause it kind of sounds like they have this cool, like kind of melodic intro. And then it just like goes to a different song and never revisits it again. But I don't know. It's cool. And then the one thing I'll add, I don't know if the artwork that is on the Spotify website, is the original art. Do you know?
SPEAKER_07:Yes. Yeah. It's the cover of the seven inch. It's
SPEAKER_03:like awesome. Yeah. It looks like something a seventh grade punk would draw on their binder, like a middle finger with us, like a spike bracelet around the wrist. Super sick.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. It's sick. And also like, you know, if people aren't familiar with this, but they like adrenaline OD, like the less barbecue seven inch that comes out the same year, that's New Jersey also. And also like the, that's a little campy too, right? Like that, uh, old people smell bad, old people talk loud, whatever that is, you know? So I don't know, maybe kindred New Jersey spirits just getting crazy in 83 dude, but whatever the seven inch rips straight up, uh, everyone check it out. All right. Uh, Chris, any final thoughts?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I mean, thanks for having me on first. And then like second, what a fun episode. Like all this whole playlist was really cool. Like I, I really liked, uh, all for these bands in, in different ways. Um, and then, you know, we rattle off a bunch of stuff at the beginning, just further evidence that hardcore rules. It is alive and well in the year 2024. I love
SPEAKER_07:it. Dude. Halfway done. It's wild. We're gonna have to put together some lists. Uh, Chris, where are the people find you?
SPEAKER_03:ChrisWilliams51 on Instagram or Twitter.
SPEAKER_05:Introducing first, the challenger, fighting out of the hard corner. The belt is on their mind, and Dan Sant is running out of time. Hailing from the greatest planet in the Milky Way, it is the number one contender in the world!
SPEAKER_01:Ben Merlis, a.k.a. Ben Edge, a.k.a. Benge.
SPEAKER_05:And his opponent, fighting out of the core corner, from parts unknown, weight unknown. Reason he didn't pick minor threat in the Straight Edge Super 7, unknown. It is the reigning, defending, undisputed 185 miles south trivia champion of the world, Daniel. These questions are too easy. Sant.
SPEAKER_07:All right. And the first question goes to Ben. Ben, in 1981, Black Flag put out the Thirsty and Miserable 7-Inch. All copies were given to this store for distribution.
SPEAKER_08:What is licorice pizza?
SPEAKER_07:A point to Ben. How about that? I would have never felt comfortable giving that question to anyone else.
SPEAKER_04:I would not have known
SPEAKER_07:that. See, I cater these to you guys. I'm setting you up to win. Okay, Dan. In 1996, Back to Basics put out the compilation A Call for Unity. In 1998, A Call for Unity 2 was released. Was there a third installment?
SPEAKER_04:No, I believe Unity had been achieved by the end of Volume 2.
SPEAKER_07:We go to Ben for the potential steal. Ben! Ben, in 1996, Back to Basics put out the compilation A Call for Unity. In 1998, A Call for Unity 2 was released. Was there a third installment? I believe that
SPEAKER_08:it took at least three installments for Unity to be achieved. So yes, there was a third one.
SPEAKER_07:A point to Ben is a steal. A Call for Unity 3 came out in the year 2000. Okay, and we go to Ben for his round number two. Ben, true or false? The first song on A Call for Unity 3 on Back to Basics was a six-minute song called Hardcore Pride by a Japanese hardcore band called Straight Savage Style.
SPEAKER_08:This is a true or false question here? Correct. I'm going to say false. False.
SPEAKER_07:We go to Dan for the potential steal. Dan, true or false. The first song on a call for unity three on back to basics was a six minute song called hardcore pride by a Japanese hardcore band called straight savage style.
SPEAKER_04:Say, Ben needs... See, I fucked up. I thought Unity was just going strong. That was my bad. But Ben needs to put his mindset in. If we're doing the third volume of Call for Unity, what barrel are we scraping the bottom of? Yes, there's a six-minute song straight out of Japan. And you know what? We need six minutes to devastate everyone with how much pride in hardcore we have.
SPEAKER_07:Point to the champ. We go to Dan for his round number two. Dan, the first song on A Call for Unity 3, the compilation on Back to Basics, was a six-minute song called Hardcore Pride by a Japanese hardcore band called Straight Savage Style. Was the song indeed savage? No.
SPEAKER_04:False. It was not savage.
SPEAKER_07:We go to Ben for the potential steal. Ben, the first song on A Call for Unity 3, the compilation on Back to Basics, was a six-minute song called Hardcore Pride by a Japanese hardcore band called Straight Savage Style. Was the song indeed savage? You know it, baby.
SPEAKER_08:As savage as they come.
SPEAKER_07:A point to Ben. It is a steal. And we go back to Ben for round number three. Ben, just so you know, Staffan is looking right at you. Multiple choice. What Swedish hardcore band put out the cassette? Hardcore attack in 1984. Was it A, Mob 45? Was it B, Mob 46? Was it C, Mob 47? Or was it D, Mob 420?
SPEAKER_08:I got to go as much as I want it to be Mob 420. I got to go Mob 47, which is option C.
SPEAKER_07:I believe a point to Ben. All right, Dan, we got to get one back here, but we're going to Britain and this is a multiple choice as well. So which band put out the LP war cry in 1991 on tone deaf records? Was it a disclose? Was it B disrupt? Was it C dis fear? Or was it D disaster?
SPEAKER_04:C dis fear.
SPEAKER_07:We go to Ben for the potential steal. Ben, multiple choice. Which band put out the LP War Cry in 1991 on Tone Deaf Records? Was it A, Disclose, B, Disrupt, C, Disfear, or D, Disaster? I'm going to go A. No points this round, and Dan lets down his home country. It is the British band Disaster with one of the best D-beat records ever.
SPEAKER_04:Dog's playing on the front lawn and it's making Reggie go mental.
SPEAKER_07:Dan would have gotten that question if it wasn't for the dog party out front. I got faith. Okay, Ben, let's go to you for your round number four. This is another multiple choice question. A band on the process of elimination comp from 1981 shares names with a fast food chain. Is it A, McDonald's, B, Subway, C, Arby's, or D, Hardee's? I'm going to go A, McDonald's. Point to Ben. He's smashing, Dan. Luckily for you, I think I used this question before, so you should know it. Is the antidote 7-inch titled Thou Shall Not Kill or Thou Shalt Not Kill?
SPEAKER_04:Oh my God, we've done this before. It's Thou Shalt Not Kill.
SPEAKER_07:Point to the champ, and no points to me for repeating that question. My bad.
SPEAKER_04:You still made me go... It's the other one in my head. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_07:If you ask me right now and I have the answer in front of me, I don't know. Okay, Ben, this is your round number five. What is the shared last name of both the proprietor of Bomp Records and the promoter who put on the Kimbo Slice versus Tank Abbott MMA bout? It's got to be Shaw. That is correct. A point to Ben. Greg Shaw from Bomb and Gary Shaw ran the Elite XC MMA promotion. Okay, Dan, we go to you for round number five. Dan, which came first, the debut LP by Chaos UK or the first Dave& Buster's restaurant in Dallas, Texas?
SPEAKER_04:Well, they're probably just one year apart because that's the Zach type of thing. So it's not like obvious that Chaos UK... Easily came first. It's like Dave and busters has been percolating for a while.
SPEAKER_07:Trivia has just turned into a coin flip,
SPEAKER_04:but did they, it's like, all they must've had back then is like miss Pac-Man and, and like skeeball or something.
SPEAKER_07:Dude, put some respect on nibbler
SPEAKER_04:and Cuba.
SPEAKER_07:That's
SPEAKER_04:right. I'm going against every instinct inside me. I'm going to say chaos. UK came first, but, In my head, I think... No, Chaos UK came first.
SPEAKER_07:We go to Ben for the potential steal. Ben, which came first? The debut LP by Chaos UK or the first Dave& Buster's restaurant in Dallas, Texas?
SPEAKER_08:You know, it's good that I got this question because I'm a Dave& Buster's history expert. I'm going to go Dave& Buster's on that one.
SPEAKER_04:Well, you're certainly a Buster.
SPEAKER_07:Okay, and we go back to Ben for his round number six. Ben, which version of the Chain of Strength song, There Is a Difference, starts with an It's the Limit style drum fade in? Is it the 7-inch version or the 12-inch version? It's the 7-inch version. Point to Ben. All right. Respect. And Dan, your final question here of the first round. Which song off the Partisans 1983 7-inch Blind Ambition starts with a cowbell?
SPEAKER_04:My mind is fucking blank. Repeat the question, please.
SPEAKER_07:Which song off the Partisans 1983 7-inch Blind Ambition starts with cowbell?
SPEAKER_04:17 Years of Hell.
SPEAKER_07:We go to Ben for the potential steal. Ben, which song off the Partisans' 1983 7-inch Blind Ambition starts with Cowbell?
SPEAKER_08:I have no idea, but my answer is going to be I Never Needed
SPEAKER_07:You. No points this round. Dan, he's got to do big here in this last round. Let's hit it.
SPEAKER_09:What? What?
UNKNOWN:Okay!
SPEAKER_07:All right. Ben, you currently have eight points. How many would you like to risk here? How many points does Dan have? Dan currently has two points.
SPEAKER_04:A real champ doesn't ask that question. They just say, I'll bet them all. Okay. I'm
SPEAKER_08:going to go YOLO. I'm going to go YOLO because that's what you want me to do. I'm going to wager all eight points.
SPEAKER_07:Oh my God. I got no backup. Okay. Very good. Okay. And then Dan, how many would you like to wager?
SPEAKER_04:One point, please.
SPEAKER_07:All right. Masterful, dude. Masterful. Okay, here we go. Ben, this is your song.
SPEAKER_08:Can I hear that one more time? You
SPEAKER_06:may.
SPEAKER_08:How about three more times in a row and then I'm going to guess it.
SPEAKER_06:You may.
SPEAKER_08:One more, and I'm going to go for it. Man, it always gets glitchy on that last part. All
SPEAKER_07:right, here, one more time. Everyone be totally quiet.
SPEAKER_08:That's that for which you fall.
SPEAKER_07:Hey, not a terrible guess. It is face to face. My shit will blow up. Everybody come up front. Sing along. Hey, there it is. Okay, Dan, we go to you. Here you
SPEAKER_04:go. Can I hear it four times in a row, please?
SPEAKER_06:You may.
SPEAKER_09:Okay. Dude,
SPEAKER_07:you should know this on principle. This is one of the greatest lines of one of the greatest songs there is.
SPEAKER_04:First part is punch in the face. One more time, please. Punch in the face for the disrespect.
SPEAKER_07:Uh, no, it's actually mush you in the face. My respect. I'll take from short fuse. Here we go. Everyone come up front. Sing along.
SPEAKER_04:But
SPEAKER_07:Dan,
SPEAKER_04:that
SPEAKER_07:is what he says. And you mush Ben in the face with some sick ass strategy. You win with one point. Congrats, champ.
SPEAKER_04:Leaping Danny
SPEAKER_07:Poffo. That's right. Dude, back by popular demand, it is Big Frank. What's up, Frank?
SPEAKER_02:Hey, good to be here.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, man. I wanted to dive in to Uniform Choice. People love the discharge segment. And Uniform Choice, California band, you're there for the whole run. And yeah, I just thought we'd touch on them a little bit. So... In July of 1984, this is when Uniform Choice puts out the demo that we all know, we all love. And you're working at Zed's at this point? Oh, yeah. Okay. So what's your experience with them coming and bringing the demo into Zed's?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think when I met... pat dubar i think pat dubar was the first one i met and i believe i met him and john master polo who was in no for an answer on the first seven inch i met them both at a club called flash dance and i was still at this point i might even still be wearing my leather jacket um Because I remember walking, I was at this show wearing my painted leather jacket and getting side eyes from Dubar and Master Polo. Like, oh, these guys don't get it, you know, or whatever. I just didn't know them. But I met them that night and they were nice enough. I could tell that they were kind of from a different world than me. But, you know, that was the first time I met them. As far as coming into Zed with demos, I didn't. I probably Longree and Dubar were the ones doing it. And I would meet Pat Longree later, but, um, I just remember selling a lot of them.
SPEAKER_07:What do you remember about the reaction of the demo? Like where people just like, Oh my God, this is like minor threat with like a little more operatic vocals.
SPEAKER_02:I think they were more like, we have our own minor threat now.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It was like a West coast. you know, I don't want to say watered down version, but you know, no, it was good.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Yeah. Um, they play a lot of shows in two clubs that I never heard of before, like right around the time of the demo of a concert factory in Cosa Mesa and the flash dance club in Anaheim. Did you go to either of those and what were they like?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Flash dance was the one that I was just describing where I met master Polo and Dubar. It was a little club, uh, I'm trying to think how about, uh, probably the size of Alex bar.
SPEAKER_09:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Alex bar. And, um, yeah, it was, it was like tucked in the corner and I, I saw uniform choice probably with doggy style at that club. And it was, it was a good little intimate club, the, um, concert factory down in Costa Mesa. I wasn't so much into that one. I don't know. Something about Costa Mesa was just, I don't know. It just was, I never, there was people, I think in that scene that I didn't get along with, but I don't know. It was so long ago. I can't even remember why I didn't end up going there very often.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I mean, that's so wild thinking that like Anaheim and Costa Mesa would have like totally different crowds. They're so close, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was, you could, it could go from neighborhood to neighborhood, honestly. Sure.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. What would they be drawing? Like if uniform choice plays in, in like 84, like around the time of the demo,
SPEAKER_02:a lot of their friends. And then a lot of, um, a lot of more, um, I want to say more clean cut kids, suburban kids, you know, it was appealing to, uh, not just the outlaws and weirdos, but like normal kids that were maybe just a little frustrated, uh, So I would say they had more normal appeal than, say, a hardcore punk band.
SPEAKER_07:And then by the time the 85 rolls around, they start getting put on all the big shows. So this is all still before the LP, but after the demo.
SPEAKER_02:That was my doing, basically.
SPEAKER_07:Right. That's why you're the perfect dude to talk to about this. So the first time they play a huge show, the Olympic Auditorium, it's on March 15th, 1985. Them, Angelic Upstarts, Wasted Youth, SSD. Um, great show. You remember the show at all?
SPEAKER_02:I remember somewhat, you know, I, I, I, I've been trying to remember the old angelic upstart shows. Cause I know I saw him like three, four, maybe even five times, but like, I have no real great memories of it, but, um, I do remember that show being a good fun show. And I remember like you, you see was really excited to play the Olympic auditorium and, It was an exciting time to be in a band and be around bands.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, and all the English bands still in 85, they're doing huge crowds, right?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. Olympic and Fenders. Or Santa Monica Civic.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, a week later, you'd put them on a show at Fenders. Youth Grade, China White, Shattered Faith. I believe that might be a Golden Voice as well.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. If it wasn't, it was one of... There was like two guys that would... If Golden Voice didn't want to do the show, there's two guys that would... probably do the show. And I worked for them as well.
SPEAKER_07:So any, any time as Fender is this big Frank?
SPEAKER_02:It, it was for a long time. I was, I was the go-to for keeping it under control.
SPEAKER_07:Right. And they, they just play so much in 85. Like they play the Olympic auditorium again in March. So they can play twice the Olympic auditorium. This one's social distortion, Red Cross and SSD. And, uh, they play Fender's like in 85, like six more times, you know? Right. And how are they received? Like that first time, do people already know them? Like does the, does their popularity build from like playing more and more shows?
SPEAKER_02:Probably their popularity really skyrocketed when screaming for change came out.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. So up until then, they're kind of like, they're just a good live band that has like a pocket of kids.
SPEAKER_02:They're a great band that not everyone's heard of yet.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Are they getting fucked with over the straight edge thing? No,
SPEAKER_02:no one's fucking with Pat Dubar or any of his friends.
SPEAKER_07:Do you have any memories of someone fucking with him and him fucking back?
SPEAKER_02:No, there was one show, which I'm not too proud of, but where I would run the show, but they'd also hire outside security to maybe watch the outside and the edges of the show. They'd hire the security. You know, those companies that just do security. Sure. And for whatever reason, one of their guys decided he didn't want to listen to any of us. And it was like, it's our show. You're going to listen to us. Yeah. Or there's going to be a problem. And he just wouldn't back down. And so me and this guy got into a toe-to-toe flying over tables fight. And somehow... Somehow, um, Pat Dubar's brother got involved. So it was me and Courtney versus like these like jocks from Long Beach high school or something, you know, or Long Beach college or something. It was, it was pretty crazy.
SPEAKER_07:That's wild. Yeah. So they do a bunch of shows here, including this is, this is pretty wild. So in April of 1986, before it could, it could be right around the time of screaming for change that comes out in April of 86 to we have no date. But April 18th and April 19th, it's Uniform Choice, DI, and Aggression. And then One Night Ill-Repute, Justice League Play, One Night Toxic Reasons Plays. This seems insane to have that show back-to-back two nights in a row. Do you remember that at all, or do you think it's a typo?
SPEAKER_02:I don't remember it being two nights in a row. I don't remember doing a Uniform Choice show two nights in a row. It could have been consecutive weekends. That would make more sense to me.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, maybe there's just a typo on one of those flyers so it got written out. Because I was like, damn, DI aggression in UC, like two nights in a row at Fenders? That sounds wild. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Right. Okay, so in April, Screamin' for Change comes out. And in July, it looks like, dude, this is like an all-time show looking at it. GBH, Agnostic Front, Uniform Choice, Verbal Assault at Fenders. Jesus. That was a good one. What do you remember about this? What's GBH like in 1986 and what's AF like?
SPEAKER_02:GBH have not changed one bit since I met them in 83. Today. They're the same people. Dude, I saw them last year. They kick
SPEAKER_07:so much ass.
SPEAKER_02:They kick ass and they're just as humble and nice as they were the day I met them.
SPEAKER_07:So sick.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. They're great guys.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:one of the most fun things was this was the week before they played this Fender show, I think was the Olympic GDH agnostic front show. And that was where I got to meet Vinny stigma for the first time. Okay. And yeah, I, I, I, to this day, I, two of my fondest friends are Roger and Vinny. And I just, you just can't get enough of those guys.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. American treasures, dude. Yeah, I agree. for sure. What do you remember the show being wilder than any other shows? Like, cause that lineup is just out of this world.
SPEAKER_02:Um, no, I actually remember the Olympic show being wilder, but that show I think was, there's nothing stands out about it that like nothing too crazy happened. I'm sure there was, there was plenty of crazy at any show, but nothing, nothing monumental.
SPEAKER_07:Sure. So, um, They do Fenders four times after that before they do their U.S. tour. In 87, they tour the U.S. July and August. They come back. They do a big show at the Santa Monica Auditorium, GBH Circle Jerks Accused. Do you remember anything about that one?
SPEAKER_02:Who was the middle band again?
SPEAKER_07:GBH Circle Jerks? GBH Circle Jerks, UC, and the Accused at Santa Monica Auditorium. I don't remember that, honestly. I don't remember that at all. The reason why I asked about that one is because there's a note that it got moved from the Olympic auditorium. So do you think that might be like right when that
SPEAKER_02:might be? Yeah, because I don't remember UC ever playing in the Santa Monica civic.
SPEAKER_07:Maybe they dropped, you know, but does the Olympic shut down around that time in 87? Yes. From doing
SPEAKER_02:shit. Everything was getting kind of, I think 80s around 87, 88 was when I bowed out for a while. because it was just a weird time. Things were getting more violent and more weird and more splintered off, and I was just trying to make my way. And they brought in, Golden Voice brought in this guy, Kevin Lyman. You know who he is, right? Sure. Yeah. So they bring him in, and I start training him to do what I do, and I'm like, I'm being replaced. I'm training this guy to replace me. That's what I thought. So at the same time, this guy comes up to me from a different concert production and offers me more work and more money. And at the time, I thought I was being replaced, so I bounced for like a year and just did glam metal shows and got sick of that real quick. And then went back and started doing hardcore shows again.
SPEAKER_07:So let's talk about like after screaming for change comes out, you're saying like their popularity explodes. Like what's it like seeing them then? Like what's their crowd like? And are they coming off like a headlining band when they're playing these stacked shows offenders?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. They, they, they could always, they can hold their own with anybody back when they were, when, when they were at their peak, let's say screaming for change era. Yeah. They couldn't be touched if they were, firing on all cylinders, which was usually the case because they practiced a lot.
SPEAKER_07:When did they start changing? So staring at the sun comes out or staring into the sun comes out in. That was the seven inch, right? No, it's that's the LP. They have that seven inch to Indianize seven inch. I think that comes out around the same time.
SPEAKER_02:That's when things started to change, I think.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Okay. So it's still summer of 88 and like, but before that comes out, like they don't, change of the shows you don't start seeing like hey something's changing here like kind of like you knew the discharge was going to be different even before grave new world came out
SPEAKER_02:yeah it wasn't quite that drastic because pat wasn't trying to do falsetto vocals he was i think he was trying to sing a little more but he kind of sang anyway he tried to sing and um i i just think he was he was trying to sing a little more it wasn't it wasn't as drastic as discharge going from noise, not music to poison. And you know, the other one, um, Oh God, what was I going to say? I'm sorry. I lose my track sometimes.
SPEAKER_07:No, it's no problem at all. But so what, how was staring in the sun? Like how was it received by the people? And like, what were the shows like after that record?
SPEAKER_02:The people that really liked them still really liked them, I believe. And they probably just, I think their appeal started like branching away from hardcore and punk rock. Like they started appealing to a lot of people, you know, trying to get some of that alternative, you know, rock money.
SPEAKER_07:Sure. There's two Fender shows after staring in the sun comes out. They play April 22nd, 1989 with blast and the adolescence. And they play a month later, May 19th, 1989 with MDC and no for an answer. Do you remember either of those?
SPEAKER_02:The MDC no for an answer show, I think was a mess.
SPEAKER_07:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:As I remember, did circle one play that one too? I don't have it written down. Okay. If circle one played that show, then you would, that was the worst show. violent Fender show ever, if that's the one I'm thinking of.
SPEAKER_07:How was it violent,
SPEAKER_02:Frank? Two opposing crews of nasty people showed up to deal with each other. None of them liked the guys from Circle One. If you can imagine a three-pronged fight and half the people fighting didn't know who they should be fighting and who they were with. It was chaos.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, that's wild.
SPEAKER_02:And the other show, I do remember Pat Longree's hair was a little longer. I think Pat Dubar was flicking his hair back. But they still live would play. They would play their new songs, and they were different. But they would play the old songs, and they were good. So they would still have that appeal. Yeah. And I don't think they lost a lot of their crowd.
SPEAKER_07:And they still kicked ass, right? They could still rip into the
SPEAKER_02:tracks. Yeah, live. Live was where they brought it. I mean, I can remember one time when they opened for Slapshot. And that was the first time Slapshot ever played here. And I think Uniformed Choice stole the show from them.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, so that's what I was going to bring up next. There's two shows after Staring at the Sun come out at the Country Club. So January 29th, 1989 country club with circle jerks and the grim. And then that one you were talking about may 5th, 1989 country club slap shot instead uniform choice.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That's the one I remember the other one. I'm not too sure on. It was probably just an average show.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And there's stuff that like is awesome on the LP, like that, uh, cut from a different cause song like rips.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. Yeah. There's definitely great songs.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, for sure. So then they do their us tour, uh, off that LP. They leave in late May, they come back in early July, and then they just do one final show. August 13th, 1989 at the Country Club with Bad Religion and Toxic Reasons. What do you remember about that? Nothing.
SPEAKER_02:What year was it?
SPEAKER_07:August of 1989. You
SPEAKER_02:know what? I wasn't working shows right then. I was putting them on, but I was more concerned with what I was doing. Yeah. So I may have missed that show.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Nemesis is full swing in 89. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I've, I had a lot on my plate right then.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Do you remember if like, was there a last show announced or did they just break up?
SPEAKER_02:I want to say they announced it maybe from, but maybe they announced it from the stage.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Frank, another fun little, uh, little walk down memory lane here on, on one of my favorite bands of all time. I've enjoyed this immensely.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, cool. Yeah, me too.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Yeah. And the people out there, let us know if you want to want us to go through another catalog like this, because the, the discharge one and now this UC one have been great. So Frank, thanks so much for your time.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, no problem. Anytime. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09:All
SPEAKER_07:right, this week on the pod, we have Martine from Donnybrook, Terror, Sound and Fury, and tons of other bands. 100% certified hardcore all-star. What's up, dude? Not much, man. Chilling.
SPEAKER_10:Here on tour right now, currently. And we're in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, about to play a show tonight. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_07:We're recording this about 10 days or so before it's going to air. So, if anything major in the world changes, don't get at us, people.
SPEAKER_10:You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_07:Okay. Yeah, yeah. Gotcha. So... You just did or you're wrapping up that big-ass drain tour. You got Sound of Fury sales. They're in full swing. What's your opinion on the current state of hardcore and its popularity? And also, why do you think it exploded at this moment?
SPEAKER_10:My opinion is that it's incredible. I mean, from watching from an outside perspective, it's crazy to see the fact that on this tour... we're going to play the Hollywood Palladium blows my mind because I never thought I would ever be able to set foot on a stage like that. It's, it's really crazy. You know, there's, I feel like there's going to be some downsides to, to things like that. I obviously try not to focus on the downsides, but they, they come with the territory just like, you know, just like with anything with changes, there's, there's things that I dislike and, but you know, the good outweighs the bad exponentially. So in my opinion, everything that's going on right now is great. And I love that. I love that, you know, as, as things keep expanding and bands keep doing crazy and crazy, crazier things, it's like that, that saying the rising tides raises all ships, you know, it just kind of helps everyone else out a little bit. And, um, You know, yeah, I'm happy. I mean, it's really cool to go on this tour and see a band like Drain just doing amazing throughout the whole country. And then they get to kind of open people's eyes to a band like us who's been around for 20-something years now. And they may not have ever heard of us before or seen us before or something like that. And yeah, it's great and it's working out for everyone, in my opinion, you know.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, that's some serious balls like booking terror as main support for every night of like your big breakout tour. Don't you think?
SPEAKER_10:Well, it depends on in what way you mean. Well, I mean, you're one of the greatest live hardcore bands going, right?
SPEAKER_07:So, I mean, that's gnarly. That's gnarly to follow that every day. I mean, I love that bravado because Sammy is kind of a generational frontman that he knows he can pull it off. But that's fucking daunting, dude. No one wants to play after Terror. Come on.
SPEAKER_10:I mean, it's hard for me to think of it in terms like that, but I see what you mean. But I think it's awesome because we would do the same thing. I would have no problem. We don't even think about it like that. It's just like I like that they seemingly have the same attitude that we've developed over 20-something years where it's like– you look back through the the tour catalog of terror it's kind of insane the bands that we've gone on tour with and stuff and like that's because we always had this mentality of like we'll just play wherever whenever with whoever and just we're gonna do our thing regardless of of anything who plays before who plays after any of that what the band sounds like it like what venue it's in it doesn't none of that matters and they very much seem to have that same sort of attitude. So I think that's awesome and I respect it a lot.
SPEAKER_07:The last two years of Sound of Fury have been insane, like turnout-wise. Do you feel that that's America catching up with Europe like 30 years late? Or do you think that American hardcore is like in a bubble?
SPEAKER_10:You know what? My perspective is interesting with that because I've been going over to Europe every summer for the past... almost 20 years and seeing the big European open, you know, they call them open air festivals. And I always wondered why that didn't really, why that wasn't a thing here in the US. So I do kind of feel like it might be us catching up to them and that sort of thing, because I always wanted to, I always had ideas to do something like that. And then when, you know, I started working with Riley and Sound and Theory and we're still doing it inside of venues. And, but we would always talk about the possibility of going outdoors because it just opens up so many more possibilities, but the, we always were reserved. We had all these reservations about it. Like we're not sure if people are ready for that sort of thing. And, um, 2020 happening just kind of just gave us that little push that we needed to just say, fuck it and go for it. And, um, It seems like it's being, it seems like, I don't know, like from my perspective, it seems like it's going great and that people are totally fine with the outdoor setting and that our worries were kind of, we were just kind of like overthinking things. And I think it's really awesome that it appears that people are accepting it. And who knows, man, maybe you've been to those European festivals before, right?
SPEAKER_07:No, we went to Sweden once. We played like a little, like a indoor thing.
SPEAKER_10:okay okay well i mean it's insane over there it's like just part of the culture like it almost seems to not even matter what bands are playing people are just down to go to the the music festival whatever it may be and they do the camping and stuff like that which is crazy i don't know i don't think i could do that not that i i won't say 100 but i love that people are just so down to do that and just like stay outside for a few days. And it just seems like a lot of fun. Like, um, we just played, we just played a couple of, uh, festivals on this, on this tour. Um, like this Danny Wimmer presents thing. They, they do all these festivals around the, you know, around the U S like aftershock and they have all these crazy names like Rocklahoma or something like that. Anyways, we did a couple of those and those have campings. And I actually knew a couple of people that were camping in Daytona Beach. It was called Rockville. And they had like a... Yeah, it was right on the Daytona Speedway, which was insane, like driving around the actual racetrack. And there was a whole camping setup and there was a ton of people out there camping. And it made me just kind of think like, man, what if? Like, are hardcore kids in America ready to... try something like that and go that extra step and have some fun. I don't know.
SPEAKER_07:Maybe. Come on. You know him, dude. Way too... Way... Way too soft for a tent, dude. Come on.
SPEAKER_10:There might be some. I don't know. Maybe there's enough that could get the ball rolling and then make other people be like, hey, that seems like fun. Maybe I'm comfortable trying that. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't even been in a tent. I can't remember the last time I slept in a tent. I used to do it a lot when I was younger. It sounds crazy, but in Europe, when you see it, it's like nothing. There's thousands of people just set up sleeping outside intense. I don't even know what the shower situation is like. These people do it. I think it's really cool.
SPEAKER_07:Martin, was your first hardcore band the Hurricanrana band? I
SPEAKER_10:would say yes. I had bands before that, but I feel like that would have been the first one that it was conscious. We're doing what we interpret to be hardcore.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I always thought it was kind of wild. Like, you know, your first two, like bigger named hardcore bands, Donnybrook and Hurricanrana, like these are two of the best hardcore band names ever. And then, you know, and I was thinking like, you know, you also do graphic design. And so like, what's your advice to bands like for coming up with a good band name and then also like coming up with like a memorable logo and vibe?
SPEAKER_10:That's a good question. I mean, I think the band name thing, it gets harder and harder, obviously, as years go by because there's just more and more bands and more band names get taken as time goes on. But what I've noticed lately is that it appears that people don't do even kind of like minimal research on the band name that they're choosing because I've seen some crazy stuff where it's like, you know, you're choosing a band name that a band was using even like, I don't know, maybe even currently still using, or they were a band like just like a few years ago or something like that. And maybe, maybe they know and they just don't give a shit. I'm not really sure. But, um, I, the, the advice I would give is just kind of like do a little research first and make, make sure that someone else didn't already take that. And you can avoid some potential problems, you know? And, uh, And as far as logo goes, I mean, it's crazy nowadays. There's so many good artists out there and everyone is connected to each other. I feel like back when I was first being in bands, I don't know, finding someone who you thought was good enough to do a logo or something like that was almost impossible unless you knew someone personally. so but nowadays it's like you can just get on instagram or something like that and there's just like all these people out there that just do the craziest professional work so it seems pretty easy nowadays like the resources are crazy and um yeah it shocks me like i i feel like every band that comes out now just right away has their their look you know the the visual the visual representation is like immediate. They're already like, this is the vibe. And like, we have this sick ass logo and like demo cover looks better than most LP covers, you know, like 20 years ago or whatever. So I think it's really cool that like right away, people just kind of get it now. Like, I feel like people like me and you went through, went through all the, like the rough times, all the dark times of like not being able to figure that kind of shit out. And now, now people haven't figured it out. And it's just like, it seems to be easy. Like the launching of a band just is a cakewalk now.
SPEAKER_07:Let's take it back in the summer of 2004, uh, internal affairs and Donnybrook do a full us tour, like the hard way, like self-booked, uh, you know, crossing everywhere in the country. I believe in Canada too. And that being like, you know, pretty early in your band experience, like what did you learn from that? And what do you like still kind of take from that, that time to this day?
SPEAKER_10:Everything, every single thing that I learned about touring was learned on that tour because we didn't know shit. That was the first time we actually went on tour. First time we crossed Canada, We probably played in Tijuana before that, so that's technically crossing into another country. That was our first time in Canada and everything. We were gone for about two months straight. It was wild. We just didn't know anything. We didn't know anything about navigating the country. It's a lot easier now, but then we didn't have... God, this sounds so ancient and dusty saying shit like this, but it's the truth. Like, we didn't have a GPS. Definitely didn't have phones to be able to easily map things out. We were straight up using, like, the Atlas and Thomas guides and stuff like that, just, like, regular maps. And we knew nothing about dealing with promoters and getting paid. Even things, like, I didn't even... At that time, I didn't even think about stuff like changing my guitar strings. That wasn't even a thought in my mind. It was just like, oh yeah, I just play these strings until I guess one of them breaks. Maybe even keep playing. If it's a string I don't use enough, what's the fucking point in buying another one and changing it? Things like that. Getting what time you should be at a venue and setting up and soundcheck and just every little thing. thank god for cory williams who had already done this multiple times before booking that tour and taking us out on the road a band who just like knew nothing and he really he really like did a lot for me and for us showing us how to do these things and even then it was like we learned a bunch but we were still not doing it the best that we could you know we still had i still had to learn a lot after that but that was like the base of everything that's where i switched like switch gears and was like oh okay like you know i can make an actual effort to be better at this touring thing you know because it was something i just never even thought about before that
SPEAKER_07:yeah you joined terror on the damned and the shamed what was it like coming into such a notable band like on their fourth LP and also like it kind of an interesting time in their career.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, very, very special for me. I, I actually, I joined a little earlier than that cause I didn't get to record it, but, um, I joined when the band released always the hard way. So, uh, Frank left mid that about to come out and then I joined and like, so straight up, like had to re, uh, re, uh, take a new band photo redo the layout add me into the layout put my name as as a member of the band and stuff so i didn't get to record on that one but um the damn the shame was the first record that actually was in the studio with the band and that was i mean i still think about those days now it was it was one of the coolest experiences i ever had like being going to a real studio and It was Zeus at the time where his studio was. I think it was like Massachusetts, Western Mass or something. he had a house next to it and we lived at the house for, you know, the time that we were there, which was like, I don't know, maybe a few weeks. And it was just insane. I never experienced anything like that. And, you know, just he, I learned so much in that experience as well, like about recording and getting a sound out of your amp that you're happy with and trying different things and different guitars and pickups. That's where I really started to like, think about the technical side of things with playing music. I learned a lot from Zeus in that experience. It was crazy because that record kind of stands out a lot in the Terror catalog. It was an interesting time and we were doing a lot of crazy metal tours and playing with Cannibal Corpse a bunch. It was just really awesome and different. And nothing like that has ever happened, I feel like, with the band again since then. So it's like a very special time.
SPEAKER_07:There's some good shit on that record, though. Like that Betrayer song is one of the better terror songs, I think.
SPEAKER_10:I 100% agree with you. That's like one of my favorite songs. It's one of the most fun songs to play, too. And there's like cool... nuances in it that are fun to do live and shit but we still play that one fairly often but a lot of the other songs just kind of got lost in the mix of so many records coming out after that and just you know it's not like we're going up there and playing two hour long sets at shows so we don't get to really add in deep cuts like that a lot but yeah Yeah, I love that record. Funny enough, yesterday we played in Nashville, and Rob Barrett, who's the guitar player of Cannibal Corpse, he was there at the show, and that record is like, according to him, he said this to me like 20 times last night, that specific record is his favorite record, and he was really... upset that we didn't play any songs all day last night. Yeah, there was one time. If we have time, I can tell this little story. Years and years and years ago, we were hanging out, same thing, I think, but I think this was when he was still in Florida. It was like Tampa, and he invited me to his house after the show, and his wife cooked me dinner, and I brought Ricky from Backtrack with me. A couple other people came with me, and we were hanging out at his house, kind of drinking and eating. And he put the record on like full blast in his house and just like had this like listen through party with me where he made me sit and listen to the record with him. And while he commented on everything, like this riff right here, this is my favorite. I love what you guys did right here. This guitar tone right here. And just like commented on every song as we listened to it. It was one of the craziest. Cause that's like something I would expect that I would do to him. Like, yeah. Oh, I love cannibal courts, man. Let me, let me play you my favorite album and tell you everything I feel about it. Yeah. But he did it to me and it was one of the most like fun nights of my life.
SPEAKER_07:That's surreal. When, when you joined, when you joined terror, like joining an established band like that, kind of like when there are a few records in, how long does it take to feel like it's your band and not just a band that you're playing with?
SPEAKER_10:For me, like legitimate, it was instant because in my head, because it almost happened a few times before that, as people left and new members were needed. So I was like always in the conversation, but I never quite, it just never kicked in because I was so busy trying to do stuff with Donnybrook, you know, and Scott was always there. kind of weird about. He had been screwed over a few times in the past where other bands stole members from him, and he held a lot of serious grudges because of that, so he didn't want to do the same thing.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, and just so everyone knows, we're looking at you, Snapcased. What's
SPEAKER_10:up? Oh, man. Yeah, I think they have finally since buried the hatchet with that. But it really took a long time. Probably two decades or plus, something like that.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah, I don't know. So
SPEAKER_10:it never happened, but I always knew. I don't know. I somehow just knew it would. So when it finally happened, it was just like, okay, yeah, this was meant to happen. So let's just go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:That's so sick. You know, you play with such a wide cross-section of bands, like from the Criminal Instinct band to Zabalba. And, you know, your backup vocal live game is one of the best in the business. What advice do you have? Don't you think? I mean, come on. No, I agree. You don't got to be selfless here. You're a pro, dude. Come on.
SPEAKER_10:Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:Advice to doing that?
SPEAKER_07:No, no, no. What advice do you have to younger guitar players to figure out how to be the total package like that? You know what I'm saying? To be the ultimate rhythm guitar player and be able to help on the backups. Dude, I'm a... I'm a singer of larger carriage and I'm like winded a lot when I play, you know, and like, I really need, like, I have to have a dude bail me out. You know, Vogel doesn't need a Vogel's a machine, but it's still nice. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. So it's not, I don't think there was ever something that I set out to do. It just, I feel like with terror, it just kind of happened because like, it always felt like, you know, it's like we're a band that on record in the recordings, there's always big backup vocals, gang vocals and stuff. And making that happen live always felt important. And it just makes like a, I don't know, like that, that it, kind of makes the band this like serious unit is how I felt. And it just, bands that I had seen in the past and when you see stuff happen live and when you have the singer doing his thing and then you got, you know, two or more people that are always right there ready to fill parts in or like make choruses sound bigger. It just felt cool to me. So I just kind of wanted to always try to do the same thing. And then Terror just toured so much and played so many live shows that I just had a lot of time to practice that sort of thing. Man, it's hard for me. It doesn't come natural for me to be a singer-player guy. I can't be like Jerry Cantrell and just rip an entire song while singing all the words and stuff like that. It happens with Terror songs because I play them so much that eventually it just kind of clicks automatically. to what parts I can sing or not. Yeah, it just happened.
SPEAKER_07:yeah i mean i love when you see like the band singing the words right even like the drummer when you see it singing is there's kind of like a peer pressure as a fan you know you're watching the band sing it you're like fuck i should know this part too if they know it
SPEAKER_10:right i like yeah i like that perspective too yeah that's awesome yeah i yeah it's just it it just feels right for hardcore music i guess that anyone should sing any part of any of the song you know whether you're in the crowd or you have an instrument in your hand or just the mic like It's just the participation makes a lot of sense, and I think it just makes for a better live show when you have that, especially with Scott when he's throwing the microphone at people, and maybe the person that gets the mic doesn't know the words or their voice sounds crazy as hell.
SPEAKER_07:So it's nice to have someone that can just step up and fill in the blanks when it's necessary.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, it's kind of like Jeopardy too, right? Like, you know, do they really know the words? Because like you got the right answer right there.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, usually they do. But man, there has been some, you know, I've seen some of the craziest shit happen because of stuff like that. You know, like there's a funny thing that happens every now and then, especially at a show when there's a barricade. because Scott will be so far away from the person and it looks like someone is ready for the microphone and then he'll toss it to him and they're like 20 feet away. And then they get the mic and all they do is like, grunt into it. Like they're practicing their death metal vocals in their bedroom alone or something like that. So then I'll have to like hop on, be like, Oh shit, this person just ruining this, this song. I'll have to, I'll have to fill in the blanks. Yeah. But that, that happens. So it's, it's, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_07:That's sick. What's your goal when you're putting together a sound of fury lineup?
SPEAKER_10:Um, may basically just make, a weekend for people where they're just going to have like the best time possible and make a bunch of cool memories. And my, yeah, my personal main goal is just make sure that everyone has fun. And that's literally it for me. It's just like, you have a good time to have a good enough time to where you, everyone wants to come back and they feel satisfied with what, you know, why they made the trip there.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Do you feel any like, responsibility that it's looked at kind of is like a, a hardcore yearbook, like kind of since Oh six ish when like, this is hardcore and sound of fury started. Like it's a lot easier to track like the history of hardcore because you can look at the two fests and kind of see it's not all the main players, but like you can kind of get an idea who was like a significant band at the time from like looking at the cross section of the two. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, do you think about that at all? That like kind of when you're doing a fest of this stature that it's like, it's kind of a yearbook in essence.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. When, when actually like putting the lineup together, it's, it's definitely very important for us to, to be, how do I say this?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_10:It's just, we try to emphasize what's currently happening the most versus anything else. So yeah, yearbook makes perfect sense because whoever is kind of out there doing the most and putting in the most effort to be current and keep up with the times and just be active and stuff, that's who we would love to have be a part of the festival. that year and you know there's always going to be other things thrown in here and there you know like this year have hearts playing and they haven't been active since the last time they played solid fury in 2019 but then even before that it had been what like a decade or something like that so it's like it's not always going to be like the current grinders that are out there the most but every now and then something will make sense and you know it's I personally don't like to focus on things of the past because what's most important is what's going on right now, but there's times where it makes sense. But yeah, like you said, the yearbook thing makes a lot of sense. it would be, it's awesome to think that someone can look at the poster of those years or whatever year and be like, Oh yeah, that's like a snapshot of what things were like in that exact year.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. In all the facets of facets of hardcore that you're involved in, what do you find the most rewarding? Um,
SPEAKER_10:that's man, that's, that's a great question. Uh, man the most rewarding it's it's hard to say what you know what would what would be the most out of all of it but what i really do love is um doing the festival doing sound and fury and having it be inspirational to other people and i don't know maybe just like showing someone that like because you know we're we still are a diy festival like the the The team that we have, we're doing it all ourselves. We're making everything happen. It's nice to know that that can be inspirational to someone to just do anything. It doesn't have to be starting their own festival or running a festival or something. Just anything as simple as from the ground floor up, doing a zine, doing a podcast, just starting a new band, even just making new friends, getting out there and networking with people, literally anything that just inspires people to be creative in their own rights.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. One, one last thing I wanted to ask you is what's your take on, uh, like every show being videotaped these days. Do you, do you think that that's a net positive or a net negative?
SPEAKER_10:Oh man. Yeah. That's like such a slippery slope gray area for me. Cause, um, You know, I'm used to a time where that wasn't necessary. So I tend to personally feel that it's not necessary, but that doesn't mean that that's the right way to think. There's no right or wrong when it comes to that sort of thing, but it does feel a bit annoying sometimes when it creates a problem or there's controversy or something like that. We don't need it, obviously, because this all existed before that was happening. You know, the shows were filmed always, but it wasn't always like what it is now. At this point, this is the way I feel about it. I wish that since there's always going to be people at shows that are basically professionally filming it, I wish that the people at the show would just let them do that job and then not film from their phones the entire time and maybe just film from the show. Not to say that anyone can do whatever they want, but it just feels like it would be a lot cooler if everyone just let those people film the show and they put their phone away and then, I don't know, moved up to the front, sang along, didn't, I don't know, just did something else. Because I just always wonder what those people do with those. I'll see sometimes there's someone just sitting there filming an entire set almost. It's like, what are you doing with that? kind of dark, bad video with blown out audio. Like, are you watching that later or sending it to you? I don't know. It just made, it doesn't make sense to me. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know why you waste. It seems like a waste of time, but maybe it's not. I don't
SPEAKER_07:know. The same. Cause we know you got to enjoy the moment, right? Like the moment is finite.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. That's how I feel at least. I mean, it does seem like lost, a lost moment. If you're, just you know you're holding your phone either in front a lot it's like sometimes it's just right in front of their face like they're watching the show through the phone and that just seems weird I don't know you know it's just
SPEAKER_07:I mean I'm guilty I pull it out and like take like a 45 second clip to put on the Instagram but you know so I am guilty I am guilty but like
SPEAKER_10:there's a vast difference between the two things you know yeah so I don't know. It's, it's kind of crazy, but, um, you know, it's, I love the archival purposes of every show being filmed. I think that's super cool because there's a lot of times where I've thought about a show from, you know, 20 plus years ago. And I'm like, man, I wish I could just like search it on YouTube and that it would be there. And like, you can do that now. I don't know when that started, maybe in the last 10 years or something like that, where it's like, every single show exists somewhere in digital format which is crazy
SPEAKER_07:yeah i think it's interesting though because like you know we see the good side of it with like the sound of fury stuff because obviously with that many people like it just looks insane but sometimes like you know when you think about starting a band like i see some videos and it's like man i don't know if it's doing that band a favor to be putting a video up of them playing to like 20 people in that giant horseshoe, right? Maybe it's better if just their band camp demo is out there and they get some people digging them first before you publish to the world like no one cares about this band.
SPEAKER_10:Man, that's a very good point. That's a great perspective. I've seen that before where I guess not every... Maybe we're a little spoiled these days because of all this footage that we have of all these crazy shows where we maybe expect that every show has to be this wild-ass event and there has to be hundreds and hundreds of people there. That's just never going to be the case. It's just not every show can be that way. And I don't know. It's okay that sometimes there's a show with not a lot of people and there's a band that plays that not everyone is into. But yes, it's interesting to see that those moments will also get filmed and placed up on the internet in full as if it was this kind of massive event or something. I don't know, but... Yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting thing to see, yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's okay if I play a bad show. I just don't– I don't know if I need someone in, like, Milwaukee or Indonesia to know that I played a bad show.
SPEAKER_10:And they will, for sure. I mean, it's just– it's like I don't even know. I think this is just how it is now. Like, it's not going to– it doesn't seem like it's going to change at all, and that's just kind of the way of the world is just, like, everything will be– recorded and fed to the rest of the world. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's crazy to think that that's just, that's just, you know, that's just it. It's going to, it's going to continue that way, you know, and it's, it's, it's crazy to see.
SPEAKER_07:Martin, when was the last time that you played a show that you would consider like a bad show? I
SPEAKER_10:think I just played too many shows for too long to even, I don't even think about that anymore. Like, because I, I, especially with you know with terror it's just like it doesn't like bad show is such a subjective way to look at it you
SPEAKER_07:know for sure for sure
SPEAKER_10:like no matter what us on stage i guess i the only time i would think that like oh man that show is bad is if i'm like on stage fucking sick or something like i have the flu and i have to play terrible and i feel like i didn't give my all or something like that. Because other than that, it's all good. I know that we're going to do our thing and we're going to be locked in and we're going to have a great time regardless. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess the last time would be when I was a teenager and I just fucking... didn't know what the hell I was doing and sounded like shit or something like that.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Or like some, like Donnybrook in Western Ohio in 04.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah. I mean, we, yeah, we, man, there's too many to, too many to even name for those days of first touring and stuff, man. It's just like, you go to a city and legitimately 15 people would be there if that, you know, those were, that was like, those, those, you know, the experience was still the experience and it was, still a fond memory of any of those shows you know just like the first time doing that shit and playing in a city that you've never been to before is is always gonna be fun
SPEAKER_07:for sure and we talk on the pod sometimes about like hardcore being like a secret handshake and like that's a that's a real secret handshake is like when you're not again not to be dusty right but like when you've been in bands that toured like pre-gps that shit's wild
SPEAKER_10:yeah oh yeah
SPEAKER_07:that's that's Pre-GPS, pre-cell phone, that shit is fucking wild.
SPEAKER_10:Yeah, especially being so dependent on it now, and it's just integrated so well into everything. It's like... even like for me who did it a lot, it's so hard to imagine that I ever did do that. You know, it's like, how the fuck did I get, how did I survive? Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I mean, we, we, we did it in like the post map quest era. So like there is something there, like we would print the maps. Right. But then a lot of America at that time was not mapped. Like I remember like going to Tachipi and it would just like drop you in the city center. You know what I mean? Like we have to go to like a pay phone and be like, okay, now what dude
SPEAKER_10:yeah just ask ask someone you see that like looks maybe slightly alternative like hey do you know where the fucking the local venue is
SPEAKER_07:that's right it was ask a punk before asked a punk was cool
SPEAKER_10:yeah yeah you like you had to do it out of necessity not out of that's right gate gatekeeping or whatever
SPEAKER_07:hey i think i missed the big tree that we were supposed to go right at can you help me out Those were crazy times. Martin, any final things you want to talk on?
SPEAKER_10:Man, yeah. You said 10 days?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, it'll be a week from Monday.
SPEAKER_10:Basically, that'll be the last show of the tour that we're on. The 17th. Oh, it'll come out the 17th. 17th. Oh, okay. Yeah. So the tour will have just finished. And so by the time this comes out, I'll just be hopefully like lying horizontally in a bed somewhere, just recharging, but getting ready. I mean, right after that, I get home and Sound of Fury kicks off pretty soon after that. So yeah. Once I get home, I got a lot of planning to do and stuff. And then Zabalba has a couple of shows, like a couple weekends after that, which is really cool, like local shows that are happening in Pomona. And that'll be awesome. So yeah, if anyone hears that, look that up. Anyone in California, at least. Zabalba's got some shows coming up. And yeah, and then... Man, the week of Sound and Fury, it's basically every single day we have multiple kickoff events happening. So starting Monday with another live episode of the Hardcore Podcast. So it's going to be crazy. I'm just really excited to get that. It's so wild that I basically spent 365 days Or, you know, whatever, maybe a little less like planning for this one week. And then it's just like, it's gone in a blur. It's just like, it's over so fast. And then once it's over, just like, holy shit, like already thinking about next year, you know what it's like? It's, it's, yeah. So I'm just really looking forward to, to that happening. Finally, you know, seeing it all come to fruition.
SPEAKER_07:Hell yeah. Martine, much respect. Thank you so much. Yeah. Much respect to you too.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah.