185 Miles South
A hardcore punk podcast.
185 Miles South
256. April 2025 (Vinnie Stigma / Agnostic Front)
We're back and talking hardcore:
- Hardcore trivia
- Newerish stuff: Dynamite, Tramadol, Total Con
- Poison Idea - Blank Blackout Vacant LP
- Best Japanese Hardcore EPs 1981-1985 - Opening Round Part 2
- Interview: Vinnie Stigma (Agnostic Front)
Check the website for playlists, our links, and SMASH that Patreon button:
https://185milessouth.com
https://patreon.com/185milessouth
We are on Substack (sometimes) writing about punk and hardcore:
https://185milessouth.substack.com
Get at me: 185milessouth@gmail.com
Buy Vinnie's book here: https://revhq.com/products/vinnie-stigma-the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world-book
Intro Song: Agnostic Front
Outro Song: Lip Cream
185milesouth.com
SPEAKER_04:Smash that Patreon
SPEAKER_05:button. 185 miles south. a hardcore punk rock podcast.
SPEAKER_03:Introducing first, fighting out of the hard corner, fueled by cheesesteaks and the Rocky soundtrack, don't come to him asking for salvation. From Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, it's Heaven, the King of the Windmill, Hair. And his opponent, fighting out of the core corner, from parts unknown, weight unknown, reason he didn't pick minor threat in the straight edge Super 7, unknown. It is the reigning, defending, undisputed, 185 miles south trivia champion of the world, Daniel, these questions are too easy, Sant!
SPEAKER_05:All right. And the first question goes to Kevin Hare. Fire. Fire. Point to Kevin.
SPEAKER_02:The Earth isn't that old. Jesus told me so.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he was riding a dinosaur 6,000 years ago. Okay, Dan, this is pertinent because we just recorded an episode, so you should know this answer. The Saints hail from what Australian city?
SPEAKER_02:Oh my God. I mean, everything in me is saying Melbourne, but... Now I'm second guessing myself. I'm going to say Melbourne.
SPEAKER_05:We go to Kevin for the potential steal. Kevin, the Saints hail from what Australian city?
SPEAKER_01:Let's say Sydney.
SPEAKER_05:No points this round. The Saints hail from Brisbane.
SPEAKER_02:Brisbane, of
SPEAKER_01:course. That would have been the third guess.
SPEAKER_05:Yep. Shout out, Australia. We love married at first sight. Okay, let's go back to Kevin for his second question. Kevin, which came first? Sandra Day O'Connor is appointed the first female to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court or Discharge releases their first single, Realities of War.
SPEAKER_01:Let's say Sandra Day O'Connor becomes elected to the Supreme Court.
SPEAKER_05:Appointed.
SPEAKER_01:Appointed. That's what I meant.
SPEAKER_05:We go to Dan for the potential steal. Dan, which came first? Sandra Day O'Connor is appointed first female to serve on the US Supreme Court or Discharge releases their first single, Realities of War.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's interesting because part of the vetting process of Sandra Day O'Connor was seeing if she knew all the words to Discharge's Realities of War 7-inch. And she did. So she got appointed. So Discharge, Realities of War came first.
SPEAKER_05:I thought that she had to name the first three 7-inches in order, but I could have been wrong. All right. Multiple choice, Dan. What was the catalog number on the 1981 compilation strength through oi was it a boy one was it b boot one was it c skin one or was it d stargazy pie one
SPEAKER_02:well you know what's funny about this there's in a different label there is things cataloged by oi but this one is skin
SPEAKER_05:point to dan yep you know what the other one is it's no future is oi Yep. Okay, we go to Kevin for his round number three. Kevin, true or false? In 1992, Unforgiven wins the Oscar for Best Picture. Also, Bastard releases their LP, Wind of Pain.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I want to say the Bastard LP is earlier than that, but now I'm second guessing. I want to say it's 1990. You know what? I'm going to say that's true. I think it's 1992. Final answer. Point to
SPEAKER_05:Kev.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I knew Unforgiven. I didn't know Bastard. Shameful.
SPEAKER_05:All right. Well, Dan, now it is your time to shine. We are doing a before and after. So example, band who did Bright Side and band on Safe Inside from St. Louis, Missouri would be Killing Time and Pressure. Got it?
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:All right. The B-side of the Sex Pistols Anarchy in the UK 7-inch and a shitty cover band on Fat Records.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I know that I'm trying to work out what your... Fucking hell. It's... Oh, I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I want to be me first in the gimme gimme's.
SPEAKER_05:He's the champ for a reason, people. God damn. What the fuck? Much respect. Dan, you won already. How about that? Okay, let's go back here to Kev for his... That's
SPEAKER_02:a good song, by the way. I want to be me.
SPEAKER_05:It is. We go to Kev for his number four. Kev, before joining Madball, Hoya played in this band with future 25 to Life member Beto. Demise. Point to Kev. We go to Dan for his number four. Dan, the pre J church band that put out the album perversion is their destiny on vinyl communications in 1987. And also what I become when I witness badge. Well, actually someone.
SPEAKER_02:A band called Cringer. A
SPEAKER_05:point to the champ.
SPEAKER_02:You could have also said what Battlecap's alter ego is before He-Man has the power.
SPEAKER_05:That's true. That is true. You could have gotten that. Okay, we go to Kev for his round number five. Kev, this is multiple choice. What is the first song on the Gizem LP Detestation? Is it A, Endless blockades for the pussy footer. Is it B, endless blockades of the pussy footer? Is it C, endless blockades of a pussy footer? Or is it D, endless blockades from a pussy footer? I
SPEAKER_01:believe that it is B, endless blockades of the pussy footer. We go to
SPEAKER_05:Dan for the potential steal. Dan, what is the first gizm song on the LP Detestation? Is it A, Endless Blockades for the Pussyfooter? Is it B, Endless Blockades of the Pussyfooter? Is it C, Endless Blockades of a Pussyfooter? Or is it D, Endless Blockades from a Pussyfooter?
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Well, it definitely has the in the title, like the pussy footer. So I'm going a endless blockade for the pussy footer.
SPEAKER_05:A point to Dan.
UNKNOWN:Fuck.
SPEAKER_05:And we go back. See, it's hard to be.
SPEAKER_01:I was feeling good. I felt good about that one.
SPEAKER_05:Dude, I have the answer key right here. And if you asked me, I wouldn't know. Dan, this squirrely Chicago area band put out a seven Billingsgate. Shout out Squirrel. That is right. All right, all right. Kev, round number six. Lip cream. A point to Kev. Dan, any chance you would have stolen that one?
SPEAKER_02:I would have guessed either that or... Yeah, I think that or Gestunk. Those were the two guesses that I would have gone with.
SPEAKER_05:Yep, good guesses. Okay, Dan, your final question. In 1990, Nemesis Records released the Iceman Cometh compilation that was recorded May 17th, 1989 at what Hollywood club?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I'm pretty sure I'm going to guess one in particular, but I don't want to be wrong because I own this record. So
SPEAKER_05:Dan's going to keep chatting it up while he runs
SPEAKER_02:over to his seven-inch box? Well, I can't take the mic with me, unfortunately. But I'm going to guess the whiskey.
SPEAKER_05:A point to the champ. All right.
SPEAKER_01:You sounded pretty distant. When you answer that one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Only
SPEAKER_02:because of the bleed.
SPEAKER_05:I know. We're going to need you to wear tap dancing shoes next time on the pod,
SPEAKER_02:Dan. Okay, no problem. I have some bejeweled ones ready for the OMDB reunion.
SPEAKER_05:All right. It's time.
SPEAKER_08:What? What?
UNKNOWN:What?
SPEAKER_08:All
SPEAKER_05:right, Dan, you get to call it. Do you want heads or tails?
SPEAKER_02:Tails for Peter Swales.
SPEAKER_05:It is tails. Do you want sample A or sample B?
SPEAKER_02:I will go second, please. Sample B.
SPEAKER_05:So, yeah, we're looking at Dan has seven points and Kevin has four points. So, Kev, Dan's going second. How many would you like to wager?
SPEAKER_01:We're risking it all.
SPEAKER_05:Kev is risking all four. And Dan, how many would you like to wager?
SPEAKER_02:All seven.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, my God. I don't have a fucking time breaker. Okay. All right. Here we go. Kev, this one's for you. Here we go. One more time.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:One more. As many times as you need, buddy. Here we
SPEAKER_01:go. Let's see. I'm not going to unhear what I'm hearing, even though I don't think that it's right. So let's go 10 seconds to midnight.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, not terrible. It does kind of sound like that. Jesus. He says, no sense of commitment. Everyone come up front and sing along.
SPEAKER_02:No sense of commitment. He does say that.
SPEAKER_05:I thought it was just their response to a
SPEAKER_01:cold as life.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Dan, here we go. This one is yours. No sense of commitment.
SPEAKER_02:Can I have it five times in a row, please?
SPEAKER_05:Here we go.
SPEAKER_02:Ugh. I think he says something like... Something like... Can I hear it one more time? Of course. I think he says like... You understand what I said, you fucking... Meh. I don't know what that last word... You fucking... I don't know. Like, what's a 25 to life style word? You fucking mook or something.
SPEAKER_05:I don't know. Dude, this was the one you could have got, Dan.
SPEAKER_01:I
SPEAKER_05:think I might have it. Can I try? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can. You don't have what it takes, you fucking fake. Yes, one word off, and we would have given it to you, I think. You ain't... You haven't got what it takes, sir, because you're a fucking fake. He says, you ain't got what it takes, you fucking fake. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. If I had been one word off, I would have been bound to the nether region.
SPEAKER_05:If you would have gotten one, it was pretty close. I mean, ain't, don't got, whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Now that I listen to it, I hear the ain't, but I think I just... It was like, I think don't, I just kind of put it in there.
SPEAKER_05:All right, guys. The tiebreaker is going to be songs off negative approach, total recall that are not live. Dan, we go to you first. Tied down. That's one. Kev, to you. Dead stop. Dan, back to you.
SPEAKER_02:Ready to fight.
SPEAKER_05:Kev, back to you. Pressure. Dan, back to you.
SPEAKER_02:Negative approach.
SPEAKER_05:Kev, back to you.
SPEAKER_02:Nothing.
SPEAKER_05:Dan, back to you.
SPEAKER_02:Why didn't I say that? It's my favorite. Dead Stop. Already been said. Oh,
SPEAKER_07:no! Oh, yes, let's go. An epic defeat. New blood.
SPEAKER_05:This is Nick Bockwinkle knocking Vern Gagne off the throne. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:fuck. What a comeback for me. I think I did pretty good in the... Yeah,
SPEAKER_05:yeah, yeah. You lured Dan into betting it all when he didn't have to. This is a good win. But Dan, don't despair because next trivia, you will be undefeated again. It's still so aggressive, so fast, so beefy
SPEAKER_02:and brilliant.
SPEAKER_05:What's up, everyone? We are back and talking hardcore. Helping out. You know him. You love him. It is the best dressed man on the pod. It is Daniel Sant. What's up, dude?
SPEAKER_02:God save the queen. She ain't no human being.
SPEAKER_05:Also helping out live from the Liberty Bell. It is the king of the windmill. It is Kevin Hare. What's up, dude? What up? What up, what up? All right. Overweighted body played last weekend. Dan, I went to the Shea. Kev flew out. He did the windmill move. It was sick. I'm lucky I'm six feet tall. I could see everything from the back, dude. And it looked pretty ill. How do you feel?
SPEAKER_02:No, we got you up front singing along. Like, don't tell the listeners that you're jaded. You're going to be up front. You were up front singing along. It was great. Unity was happening everywhere.
SPEAKER_05:That's right.
SPEAKER_04:I am the ghost of the over my dead body reunion hat straps.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, everyone, I want to dive right into newer stuff. Let's get into it. Got a bunch of things to just touch real quick here. Can't remember if we mentioned it last time or not, but the band The Hell put out a new self-titled 7-inch on Sorry State. It's really good. Their 12-inch, I believe two years ago, was really good, and we didn't talk it on the pod, and we didn't get around to talking the 7-inch yet, so... We'll be right back. Putika Pomi. File under Kev Hair Music so I don't listen to it. They're a young band out of Finland. They put out a 7-inch called Tahuto Televasus. Just go to the Sorry State website and you can check it out. It was their record of the week like three weeks ago. So sorry about the pronunciation, but it rules. Kev, you ordered it. You like it, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's really fucking awesome. I guess it came out at the end of last year, but the 7-inch only came out this year and they made it– sorry, they made a zine because they liked it so much. But it just kind of right down the middle, a Scandinavian hardcore like Mach 47, Antisomics, stuff like that. And it's fucking– it's really good. It does not– I guess they're all teenagers and it does not sound like– I guess it does sound like a band like Teenagers because it's like Mob 47, but also it's real honed and just like really perfected. So it's awesome. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:it's like– Can we just get Staffan to go absolutely nuts over Kev's pronunciation of Antisium, eh?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Our Fight, they put out two new songs. That is Joseph from Tsunami's Roots Hardcore Band, so shout out. Naysayer put out a new EP called Rage Dreams. We just wanted to do another quick shout out for the Combust LP, Belly of the Beast. It came out on Triple B. Writing LPs is super hard, so much respect. A band called Spam Collar put out a new LP called Bad Connect It's a pretty interesting listen. If you like straightforward hardcore, but you want it to go a little outside the lines, you should check that out. Haywire and No Guard did a split 12-inch. It is out digitally. The vinyl is up for pre-order, and it'll come out at some point. It is a split release between like a million different labels, so check that out. Necron 9 out of Milwaukee put out an LP called People Die on Unlawful Assembly. I saw them a couple weeks ago. They were great. A band called Worst Intentions out of New Jersey put out an LP called put out their demo tape. All three songs rule. If they got a decent recording, they could be a serious contender. This band is good. All three songs are really, really good. The band No Way Out out of Los Angeles and San Diego. We should just say out of Southern California. They put out a new single called Rolling Stone. It is a killer track. A band called Fight Back put out their demo 2025 on Rebirth Records. Check that out. Leatherman out of Australia put out a new LP called Turn You On. If you like power pop, check that out. We talked to their 7-inch band. Probably about a year, year and a half ago here on the pod. A band called Lot In Life put out their demo called I'm Going To Do Whatever I Want For The Rest Of My Life. That's dudes from In Time and Pseudo Youth. A band called Axan put out their self-titled 7-inch. I enjoyed that a lot. A band called Petty Theft put out their demo 25. And then also... These are coming out after we record, so I don't have all the details. But Fool's Game will have put out their LP on Triple B by the time this podcast airs, as well as a band called Wits End put out a new demo on Rebirth Records. So check that all out. But we're going to dive into a few things that we enjoyed a lot and wanted to go a little deeper into. First up, the band Dynamite put out their second 7-inch called Settle the Score. It came out on Scheme Records in the United States, and it came out on Northern Unrest in the UK. Dan, it's British, so let's go to you first. What do you think?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I was expecting Rule Britannia to get played before this segment.
SPEAKER_05:Well, it did play before. I just edited it in.
SPEAKER_02:Ah, okay. Well, I was already standing up and saluting. I love this. I love this style of hardcore. This is right up my alley. And this band does it really, really well. It is that kind of locking out influenced, but also influenced by straight up like Outburst and stuff like that. And it's fantastic. There's groove. The riffs are sick. The song Hardcore Pride is fantastic. I think is fantastic. It has like three phases to the song, and I love each phase. It's over two minutes long, so Zach may have not made it through to the end, but I hope he did because the last third of the song is really great. And then that riff that opens See Through You, the second track, is that opening mosh riff, is so good i love it so much um the dynamite jam also super groovy like it's just where they really come into their own is when they do the drop out like one guitar going and then the rest of the band comes in the drums are recorded so well on this um the way that they build and layer these like kind of groovy mosh parts are just so good and there's really like great little tricks and things that like on Hardcore Pride where it kind of breaks and then the singer's like come on but it's not like all up front it's like fading away a little bit echoey and it just sounds so good the song Loudmouth right in the middle is a little blaster song which breaks up those kind of like bit more drawn out like groovy moshes so I don't know I really dug it I'm super psyched Kev picked up the 7 inch the united blood version for me in richmond and uh i can't wait till i get it in my hands
SPEAKER_05:yeah i i ordered this record so i just any of this roots hardcore stuff like you know i'm on board just take my money and i do like this one more than the the first one mostly because like the first one there was like a guest vocal on every song and that just like it pulls me out of it so this was like easier for me to settle into. And they do play this style really well. And like Dan said, there are some nice tricks tucked in here, like on Hardcore Pride, tucking in the scissor beat at that end section to cut up the mosh was a really good idea. And then that last song, The Can't Be Denied, with the fast part with the speed picking is really good. The only thing I'd really like to see from this band that would make them even better would be like just trying to lean into some big choruses because like they write like a really good roots, hardcore song, which is hard to do. You know, it's, it's very easy to play this style and be shitty and boring. And that's not dynamite. Dynamite has like the, the basis for like really great songs. And I think what would catapult them for being a really good band of this style to a great band of the style would just be, you know, taking some risks and trying to have some big choruses. I think that, A lot of bands shy away from that because they're worried about being corny or putting themselves out there and having people not sing along to them or whatever. Just thinking that they're maybe doing something a little too cookie cutter. But that is going to be something that makes the song stand out and be memorable. So that's all I got. But I did enjoy this a lot and I ordered it, like I said. Kev, what do you think?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I agree with you. I like this one more than their last record. Not that... Yeah, yeah, yeah. another band call a song that I was like, Oh, that's interesting to, you know, it's kind of big shoes to fill. And I think that they did, they do a good job of that. Um, at United blood, that song got a really good reaction and the record had been out for only a few days at that point. So I felt that was cool. I think that the second song, uh, it starts with a cool little super touched kind of mid tempo groovy riff, but it's not exactly the same way that a band like, um, combust would do, uh, a riff like that, like a New York hardcore riff. So I thought I liked kind of the contrast there. And then I also like the third song loud mouth. I hear a lot of a band like step forward in that too. So I think that it's kind of cool to combine both the New York stuff and then the Boston hardcore stuff, which was kind of like a interpretation of some of that New York stuff too. So I also think that the singer's got a real distinct voice too, which makes them stand out a lot among the other bands. And yes, that was a code word from, for just sit. you can tell that he's British. And I think that's cool. And yeah, I've seen them twice now. They came over a few months ago and played around Philadelphia. And then at United Blood, they're really good. And they cover shrapnel, which I think is really cool that they cover a local band that they put respect on. And then both times they covered Not For Me by Floor Punch as well. But at UB, they went right into Shotzi, which is the song that follows it right on the LP. And I've never seen, I don't think I've ever seen a band do that. But when they did it, it sounded absolutely perfect. So it was awesome.
SPEAKER_02:Cool band. To touch on what you were saying about the big choruses, I think that is a really good point because think of a band like No Warning. They went for that on Ill Blood and the success. It's made some of the all-timer songs of that kind of style. So I think pushing them towards that is a really good thing. a really good critical point.
SPEAKER_05:All right, let's go on and talk a band called Tramadol out of West Yorkshire. They put out their self-titled EP. It's on the Donor Records Bandcamp. That's the label that put out that excellent Hellscape 7-inch from last year. But there are no notes on a physical copy of this coming out, so it might just be a digital EP. But I thought it was pretty ripping. What do you think about this, Kev?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I thought that this was cool. It reminded me a lot of a band like Rackage, I don't know if they're from the same area or not. Dan can let me know about that. But the production was a little bit muddy, but not in a way that's distracting. There are a lot of cool leads and stuff on it as well. The singer sounded a lot... The first thing I could remember was this band called Pure Disgust, who was from DC like a decade or so ago. And the singer reminded me a lot of him. So this was one that I kind of, I liked. I'm going to have to kind of spend more time with it to see if it kind of stands out to me. Because right now it's just kind of like, this is cool and I like it, but I haven't gone back to it that much, even though I have listened to it a few times for this. But yeah, I mean, we've, Talked already. There's been a few other records like this that we've liked a lot this year. It's kind of in the same realm as the Nisimono record that we liked a lot last month. So this is another cool, just fast blazing release.
SPEAKER_05:I think that I've been just looking for something to scratch that Public Acid itch since their LP came out last year. And this is similar in a certain way where I'd say the Public Acid leans a little more relentless with the speed. This one... they work the tempos a bit more, but like sound wise, they're not too far off. You know, it's a rock punk band. It's a pretty good recording. Sounds savage, but you can kind of hear everything. Everything cuts through a little bit. The vocals are a little buried, but I think that's just like something that we have to accept of this genre. Like, you know, super aggressive bands that are for some reason, very shy when it comes to mixing the vocals. Like it is what it is. But yeah, for like a, a DB band, I think that this is like, it's very creative in certain ways. And like the plane is very tight. Like if you look at like the drum break on crucifixion, like they're like, they're tucking in things that are like beyond, you know, simple hardcore song writing. And there's a little bit of like triumphantness and like some of the little guitar licks that like, they might be pulling in a little bit of like Japanese burning spirits influence, which I think is a nice mashup for like rock punk. Cause like, What I don't want is any sort of octave. I can't handle any sort of melodic D-beat these days. But doing a little bit of that guitar work is a nice way to snazzy up your song. So I really enjoyed this. All four songs I thought banged all the way through. And I do hope that there's a final release at some point. Dan, do you like this since they're British?
SPEAKER_02:I like this because it rules. They're from, what's it say, West Yorkshire? So maybe like... Haliflax or Leeds or something, probably where they're from. I don't know. But Tramadol is kind of like Oxycontin over here. It's like, that's what Tramadol is. Just FYI to people out there. I like it a lot. Now, you both touched on exactly kind of what it sounds like. I had a little bit of a problem with it as the EP progresses. I feel like they up the... noise level of like the gated noise that goes into the songs so like calculated slaughter and lucid dream are way noisier than the the first two and i don't know if it's just a recording of like the crash symbols are just being smashed so much more and it's just completely like noise gated out on on that or not but either way it is a really noisy dirty dirty db band that does it so well and it is like before you know it the record's over and and all four songs are a killer but i do think when i was because i was listening to it on headphones like for the last few days and i feel like as the ep progresses i don't know you tell me if i'm if i'm tripping or whatever but by the end i feel like it is so much noisier than it was at the beginning
SPEAKER_05:You're just getting old,
SPEAKER_02:dog. Well, there's no lie there.
SPEAKER_05:All right, let's go on to the next one. Total Con out of Essex. They put out an EP called Who Needs the Peace Corpse? It came out as a split release between Static Shock and Unlawful Assembly. Nine songs in 12 minutes. Dude, this is a blazer. Kev, is this an EP or a mini LP? I think it might be a flexi. yeah yeah yeah uh what do you think about this one
SPEAKER_01:yeah this record is awesome so if i see something from either static shock or unlawful assembly like i know that i might there's a chance i'm not gonna like everything but everything they put out is worth checking out so i'd never heard this band before the seven inch came out and i i just checked it out and this rips um It's similar. The thing that it kind of reminded me the most is that Speed Plans LP last year or I guess two years ago where it's like it's really fast. The production is– it's very rough, but it doesn't take away from everything. It kind of adds to it. The rough– Production kind of complements everything and you can kind of hear everything still. And it kind of just makes it feel a little bit more intense and crazy. And that's what I really like about this. It just kind of blazes the entire time. And that's why I was really drawn to it. So it's one of those records where... Other than really the enemy, the enemy is my friend chant in the middle. Not much of it necessarily stands out to me as I'm listening to it. It's just mostly you just kind of put it on for however long it is, eight minutes or whatever it is, and you just kind of just blast it and kind of just rage through. And then it's over and you're like, yeah, I want to put this on again. So it's just another. I think that this year so far has been kind of proven. We've talked about there's a lot of hardcore demos coming out, but also I think we're starting to get to the point where there's going to be a decent amount of good seven inches that are coming out and good, you know, faster, just not quite LPs, but things that are like right underneath of just, you know, it's kind of the same thing that's been building for a few years of all the, we talked about the regular hardcore, like I said, and now just kind of the fast blazing punk bands have been bubbling for a while too. So yeah, really good record. I just got mine in the mail today. So I spun it once, but I'm going to definitely Yeah, I
SPEAKER_05:bought it at that Necron 9 show like they had it because the dude from that band, he does Unlawful Assembly, I believe. Yeah, I like it a lot, dude. They call out on the little write-up for it that White Cross is the comp that they think they sound like, and that is a pretty good call-out. It's just that fast-blazing, first-wave USHC stuff that's like, know right under like the top level stuff right it's not minor threat negative approach uh or you know the abused and stuff it's like it's along the lines of like the rejecters or rosemary's babies or hated principles like that stuff and and kev called out speed plans it's like right in line with that like if you like speed plans especially the lp like it's just it's pummeling like that but The same way that Tramadol tucks tricks in to make them stand out from your average D-beat band, this band does little things that are really good and make all these songs so they're not so samey. Working between the closed hi-hat and the open hi-hat and the cymbals on Never Understand is a good trick to cut up a song. My favorite song is Repugnant Slime. It rules when he starts singing really fast at the end. Generally, A record like this, it does feel too samey to me, but this one didn't. I think they do it pretty spectacularly. The one thing I'd say is this is some Jason Newstead shit on the bass. It's hard to hear. And I think that if they just gave it a little bit more bottom end and had it be a little more ballsy, it would sound just a little more powerful. But I think that this band is obviously very intentional for the sound they're going for. But I do think a little more bass wouldn't hurt. But overall, I love this thing. Like I said, I bought it. I enjoyed it a lot. What do you think, Dan?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think it is really good. I think, like you said, that early USHC is nailed on. It's done so well. But what they do really well in their own right is there's these little rocking guitar parts that just leap from the songs a little bit just to give it its own personality. Yeah. I love that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Like almost, almost like a, even though it's the rest of the music doesn't sound like it's almost like a crass part or something, you know, right in the middle of it, this chant, like it, I don't know. It's really great. And then who would have ever thought I would enjoy a cover of the doors. And I really did writers on the storm ends this. And it is a, the door song and it is done like crazy that you might not even know it is a door song like it's just absolutely The way they do it is fucking killer. It's like super, super good. I really liked this. And it is just the right amount of lo-fi. Like the recording is marshmallowing on the stick where it could go slightly just to the, oh God, I wish there was a bit more production here, but it's actually quite perf at most parts. And I think it's a really great thing. Also, what an amazing name for a band, Total Con. I love it.
SPEAKER_05:All right. We are continuing Dan's journey through the Poison Idea catalog. This time around, we are going to get into their LP Poison. Blank, Blackout, Vacant. It came out in 1992 on a plethora of labels, but TKO did a repress recently, which is very nice. Dan, what do you think about this one?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I only like one song, and it's Amy's theme. JK. No, this thing is so great. I love this song. era that they're in to this because it's almost like this blazing brutal hardcore band that can go really dark is now circling back and channeling 77 punk but through their filter and that's how these songs are kind of so like rocking but in a very punk manner and that There's a couple of songs on here that are just so fucking good. I mean, actually, you could count on two hands how many songs are on here that are so, so good. But a few of my favorites that really stood out to me, the way it starts with that song, Say Goodbye, the way the guitar has that melodic lead to it, and just the song is so good. Jerry A's voice is... so good on this record Star of Baghdad follows that up and I love that song so much too and then the next two are excellent too Smack Attack especially now after Smack Attack you get to a song that I think is fucking not good it is which is funny because who am I going to say that they sound like on this song is Buster Poindexter, you know, like David Johansson's, like, it just sounds like almost vaudevillian version of it and it's called forever and always. And, you know, it, I just really didn't like that song,
SPEAKER_05:but it's a, it's a bad ZZ top song.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. It's, it's really like, it's just, Yeah, like you say, it is a straight up MTV in 1984, in between two good videos, that kind of song. But then Punish Me is good, but then Crippled Angel. Holy fucking shit, what a great song. That song and then the middle part with the keyboard, it just... enhances that song and the way that transitions from part A to part B of the song with that middle bridge is just so fucking good. What Happened to Sunday, I absolutely loved. And then, you know, Your Next is so... fucking pissed and so hard and such a great song and then you know i'll i'll skip to the end i won't go on for every single song but i love their take on doing a new york doll song and doing it like with full homage like we're channeling the dolls on this and doing vietnamese baby so good which is funny because you know i don't like when they're doing the schmaltzy version on Forever and Always. But when they're doing it on the actual cover, it sounds amazing.
SPEAKER_05:What do you think, Kev?
SPEAKER_01:So I've always been a little conflicted about this record. I think that this is where I'm trying to pick my words here. It's like the all-time, all-time Poison Idea run is kind of over after Feel the Darkness, where almost every record is great. This is still very good, but to me, it's not quite that level. It's kind of taking the mid tempo parts of Feel the Darkness and doing a full record off of it. And it's still really good, but it's not quite as charming, I think, because maybe it's not quite as theatrical. But still, it is really good. I don't mean to slander it or anything because I do think it's a great record. It's just kind of like a B-plus and a catalog that's got a lot of A's. So... But still, I think the most interesting thing, Dan, that I, that when you were discussing it is that I do think that punish me is like a top five poison idea song top 10 at minimum. I think that it's easily the best song on this record and it's one of the best songs they've ever done. It's got a really catchy guitar part to start that kind of just keeps building. They kind of nail the tempo here where it's not completely blazing, but it's also not slow. It's not as slow as some of the other songs. And, um, It's got a great solo in the middle. It kind of makes you want to tap your feet, but also just like really go crazy. And I think that it just really hits on all things Poison Idea is good at, especially like late 80s, early 90s Poison Idea. So yeah, overall, it's a great record. It's not as good as the other records to me, but it's still Poison Idea and it's still them kind of in their final form, which is still... One of the greatest bands of all time.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I'm conflicted on this as well. My Poison Idea journey ends with Feel the Darkness, although I've had this on cassette forever because it's like one of those tapes that Tang put out. And so I think I got it for like two bucks at some point and probably listened to it once. But I did listen to this probably, I don't know, three or four times before this. It's interesting because usually I like a record that's like all fast and then has two mid-tempo bangers. And so this is like– The opposite of that, it's like all mid-tempo with two fast songs, you know? And the fast songs aren't spectacular. Smack Attack is not that great. It kind of gets hung up on that Smack Attack hook on the verses, when really I just want to hear Jerry A rage. And then on the other fast song, What Happened to Sunday... he doesn't even really sing that fast. So it's like, I don't know what I listen to these songs. It's like, it's really good men type of songs. I think say goodbye is a great song. I think punish me is a great song that has maybe pig champions, best guitar solo. Um, I think crippled angel is a, a really good song, but I want them to come after like fast songs, you know, it's kind of like, they sound so good, you know, like they still sound like they are in that prime of, uh, a field of darkness, but like, they're just not delivering the song. that I want. It's kind of like you go to see a band and they don't play the songs you want to hear. You know what I mean? It's like they still sound good. It's still them. They're not washed up or anything. This sounds good. They're still raging away. It's still very punk. I want it to break loose and go fast. That's what I like Poison Idea for. I don't know. I think objectively it's a very good album, especially if you like mid-tempo punk. But like, but yeah, but it's a, it's a disappointing poison idea record because like they don't ever just like let it rip. And, and I don't, I don't know if it's like a, a part of the times where like, you know, it's 92. So like all the Seattle stuff and like the alt rock is like going and maybe like fast music is just totally out of vogue. Maybe it's natural and that's a coincidence. Like, I don't know, but I don't think I'll go back to this record very often. But yeah, I mean, I think it is still a notable record.
SPEAKER_02:Well, this is an introduction, you know, introducing me to everything as we go along. And this is, you know, I've particularly stayed away from this. And for me to experience a record with really rocking mid-tempo bangers, like as the majority of it, you know, I loved it.
SPEAKER_05:All right, Dan went to get a beverage, and me and Kev are going to do the second side of the opening round of the Japanese Hardcore Tournament. Dude, overall thoughts on this side of the bracket?
SPEAKER_01:I like this side, but I think the winner will probably come from the other side. This one, I don't want to say that it was hard to get through or anything, but there was kind of less that really stood out to me as like, top-level great, even though there's definitely some classic stuff on this side.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think that the other side had more surprises for me when it came to bands taking big-time risks and it paying off sometimes big-time. This side, I think that Some of the best stuff is the more straightforward. So we'll get into it. Let's kick it off. The first matchup here is Gas out of Hiroshima with their 7-inch No More Hiroshima, their flexi 7-inch that is. It came out in 1982. This was their first EP. They put out two more plus a split 12-inch after this, and they broke up in 1986. Yeah, this is five songs in six minutes, and I just think that the recording sounds great. They got a killer fuzzy guitar tone, but with the bass and drums punching through. Singer has a good voice. The songs are simple, but executed well. I mean, this is 1982. This is very early, primitive, hardcore, and it sounds that way, and I love that shit. It's mostly simple in the way that the riffs are three or four chord progressions. The third song is a mid-tempo banger, and the fourth and fifth songs are total ragers. Also, that fourth song has a super sick fast left-hand riff, so very cool. The final song is fast and crazy. The singer sounds like he's losing his mind, and then it just ends out of nowhere, which is pretty wild. This is straightforward in the pocket, but it is still very... Crazy in parts. And this Flexi goes for over a thousand bucks. So I hope you enjoy listening to MP3s. Yeah. And then Alto, the other one, they do six songs in 11 minutes. And this one starts strong. Like that intro, you know, especially on the other side of the bracket. So many of the bands had like very... like vibey intros like they took a lot of time to like set the vibe with their intro and this one kind of does that too like it starts very strong the toms and the guitar like surging in and out and then like it goes into a ripping first track but this is a band that like they kind of get cited a lot I've seen this name forever and I've always read like positive reviews of it it is very straightforward like generic hardcore And I don't say that disparagingly. I like generic hardcore, but it's just very straightforward. No risks you come to expect in Japanese hardcore. And the singer does the cup in the mic bit, which is a thing that a lot of people do over time. So it's very ripping, but it's also generic and juvenile. It's kind of like... you know, if DRI and Adrenaline OD are your favorite bands, or if you were obsessed with like the circa 2000, 625 records, like this is probably your favorite shit. But part of me thinks that like, if this wasn't a Japanese band, like they'd kind of just be like a random band on a mystic comp. I really didn't like this that much if I'm being totally honest. And yeah, That frog song is fucking terrible. You know, just a dude gargling for two minutes, you know, over a like down home jamboree track. So this one's easy for me, Kev. I'm going gas. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01:So I like both of these on the gas record. The vocals are kind of snotty, which I thought was cool. The guitars, it was really kind of like UK 82 style kind of. repetitive type of driving riff, which I also liked. You called out the fourth song. I like that song too. It's a little bit more melodic and had some guitar leads and stuff. But Alto, I think I like this a lot more than you. You called out kind of what things that it reminds you of, but the thing that it reminds me most of is Clevo Hardcore. I think you can hear this a lot in a band like Inmates and that type of lane, H100s, all that type of stuff. I mean, it's pretty obvious that those guys were listening to a lot of Japanese hardcore when they were writing songs. And I think you can hear Alto quite a bit in that. I like the vocals. I think they sound really crazy. They sound kind of doubled. Maybe that's a couple of the microphones that you were talking about, but they sound just really crazy and all over the place, which I liked. I think the guitars, they're just kind of a wall of noise buzzsaw guitars, but you can kind of still hear them. I mean, there's going to be some later on where it just sounds like static, but this is just kind of real fast and raging. I do think that the Frog song is terrible, and It's weird that it's in the middle of the record. I don't think it should have been on the record anyway. But if you're going to put it on, just put it on last. Putting it where somebody would hypothetically be forced to listen to it, I don't think is a great decision. But then they come back after that with a song called I Like Cola. And I mean, come on. The chorus is just I Like Cola. That's punk and hardcore right there. Come on.
SPEAKER_08:Come on is right. Come on is right.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, so I'm going Alto, many question, poison answer.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And I didn't set this up right. So this is the Alto 7-inch, many question, poison answer. This is their first EP. They put out four EPs between 84 and 88. And the singer of this band is the younger brother of Cherry, who sang for Zhao. For this, it was a choice between... This 7-inch and the Half-Wit Life 7-inch. And so, I don't know. Maybe I would have liked the Half-Wit Life one more. But, dude, when it comes to bad translations or whatever, many question, poison answer is one of my favorites. So, we are split on this. So, we have to go to our tiebreaker. I got to give Dan from Wretched Right and Down to the Wire a call and see what he says. Yo. What up? Gas, no more Hiroshima? Auto, many questions, poison answer.
SPEAKER_06:Auto, many
SPEAKER_05:questions, poison answer. All right, Kev, you win again. Auto is moving on to the next round. Sorry, Gas, you were much better. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Is it a good thing that I'm with the consensus? I don't know if that's good or bad.
SPEAKER_05:Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's like, should there be a consensus with Japanese hardcore? There's so much risk taking and rule breaking. I don't know if there really is a consensus. Okay, let's go on to the next matchup. The Sexual out of Kochi City. Their flexi, The Last Days from 1985. This is their second flexi. The first came out in 1984. They are going up against... Betosha, their flexi called Hiromi's Party Part One from 1984. And guys, I did a disclaimer on the last one, but I just want to say it again. If we get anything wrong or if we mispronounce anything, this whole thing is done out of love. So we apologize in advance. Please send corrections to 185milesouth at gmail.com and I will post the corrections on the sub stack if we have any. Okay. The Sexual is a very classic band. I'm going to get into it, but I want to say I had never heard of Bitosha before, the band out of Sendai, and they were such a pleasant surprise to me. I feel like I got a lot of those on the first side of the bracket, and this was my pleasant surprise of this side. Three songs in six minutes. This thing just sounds great. It's full-on rocker shit. And that first song going back and forth between the mid-tempo and the tom-banging sections, and then having it break fast on the solo, which is a totally exceptional solo, is just so cool. And then that sleazer riff coming out of the solo, so sick, dude. The second song being an instrumental, perfect up-tempo, mid-tempo song with full-on shredding. And then just fades out of nowhere. It's like, what the fuck is going on here? It's so cool. Again, it's just real rocker shit, which I don't know if we've gotten yet in this first wave. Maybe the Masturbation record that we didn't end up doing because we found stuff that was more hardcore, but that record kind of rocks. But then the third song here, very Motorhead-y and cool. I love this 7-inch dude. So this has a female singer and it's members of... Disarray and Rebel. And this band only did this one flexi. And after this band, some members joined other members of GZ, who you might remember from the great punk hits comp to form a band called Bradbury, which is a band that I'm sure sounds cooler in Japanese. So there's that. This was a pleasant surprise. I really liked it, but it was going up against the sexual issues. And this is one of the best seven issues, I think, in the tournament. Six songs in 15 minutes. So is it a flexi? Is it a mini LP? I don't know. But it rips for sure. Very good intro, like the ring outs over the slow tom work. And then yelling anarchy and destruction into it going fast. It's like... The classic hardcore formula, dude. The singer is so good. Sounds a lot like the dude from Crucifix to me. And the first four songs are all ragers that have great, catchy choruses. This has the big choruses, which is something that I love. And then the kind of dragger song on here, it's the fifth song. I wish it was the last song, but it's cool. It's kind of weird, slow, mid-tempo, a little anarcho, but it's very hypnotic in a way. So I do enjoy it. And then that last song might have my favorite riff on the whole record. It's very Motorhead-y. But this is very strange, dude. I don't know if the microphone that was micing the snare or something got bumped in the studio. But for whatever reason, the snare doesn't cut through very loud on the last track. So you don't really get that thundering fast beat, which would make this song the best song on here. It kind of sounds almost like avant-garde because you just hear the hi-hat and not the snare. I don't know. This record, Rules, is one of my favorites of the whole tournament, and so I would go The Sexual in this matchup. What do you think, Kev?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I thought Petosha was pretty cool. It was a little more mid-tempo, but to be honest, not that much of it really stood out to me. I mean, that was one that I hadn't really heard before or heard of. The Sexual, though, I don't think I've listened to this one before either. So... This one is awesome. It was really fast, really raging, really unhinged solos. The vocals, like you said, are just really crazy and echoey. And sometimes I hate echoey vocals, but sometimes they kind of add to the vibe. And I think they do here. On the third song where it kind of starts with like an oi intro and then goes right into like raging. It was a funny misdirection that you don't really... Think about with this type of Japanese hardcore or anything. And Scatter the Hatred is just a hard name for a song. So I think you can really hear a band like Warhead or something kind of coming from bands like this like a decade later or whenever it was. So like it's not necessarily a completely straight line, but at the same time, this is kind of more of– what in the direction that people kind of consider Japanese hardcore later on, like the giant net of it, this is kind of what people think of and it doesn't really get too much better than this. So yeah, I'm going to go with the sexual.
SPEAKER_05:I think part of that is that this is 1985 too, right? So like we're looking at some records that are starting at 81. This is four years later. So like they have a lot of material to go off of and like, Also, iron sharpens iron, right? If you're putting out your record in 85 and not 82, it better be better. You know what I'm saying? Otherwise, I'd just rather listen to the records from 82. Okay, we are unanimous on that one. So that means the sexual moves on to the next round. Okay, the next matchup is Ika Shinju out of Okazaki Aichi. Their dead section flexi, it came out in 1985. It is going up against Last Bomb out of Tokyo. Their 7-inch firing, that came out in 1985. Quick setup before I shoot it over to Kevin. The Ika Shinju... Guys, I'm butchering that. My bad. That translates to family suicide, so that's a hard-ass name. And then Last Bomb, that has an ex-ghoul bassist in the band. Kev, what do you think about this matchup, and who are you taking?
SPEAKER_01:So first, Last Bomb. I was kind of, I was pretty surprised by this one because it sounds a lot different than any of the other stuff that we've listened to for this. This is more straightforward. It kind of sounds, reminds me a lot of like the SoCal bands from the era, like, you know, Agent Orange, Adolescence and stuff. It had that way, it had that like dark vibe. moody or guitar sound that those bands are kind of known for and I thought that was very interesting to hear that influence or if it's not influenced by that a band just kind of gravitating to that, especially again, it's a bit different than what we've been listening to here. So that stood out to me, but I thought that Ika Shinju was a band that I, another one that I hadn't heard of before this. And this one I was pretty impressed with and I was pretty surprised by. It's kind of got that UK 82 influence too. I think that it is really interesting to hear what, influences you can hear in a lot of these bands. And I think you can tell that they were getting the UK records way more than they were getting the US records, which makes sense because obviously they were on bigger labels and were distributed. I mean, all the bands in the US were getting those same records. So that makes sense. But I just think that it's kind of interesting here. So other than that, I don't have too much to point out for it, other than it's just kind of raging and pretty cool. But this is one that I'm like this one quite a bit
SPEAKER_05:i like this matchup i think that both bands are very different last bomb is a longer record five songs 15 minutes um so kev would you say that's a mini lp
SPEAKER_01:yeah i'd say maybe it would fit better on like an
SPEAKER_05:eight inch there you go but this has a really good recording what is interesting about it is the singer has like a very normal yelling voice which is almost tuneful and like that is kind of a rarity in this tournament like All these bands have had very aggressive vocals. So for a dude to go kind of normal voice, semi-tuneful, it's pretty strange. And there is a little bit of crossover creeping in on this record. But I do like, Kev, that you called out that you think that there's some SoCal in this. Because there is. And I think that a lot of that is the melody in here. That solo on the first song, Decadence, is so good. But... This kind of drags in the middle, like that third and fourth song drag a lot and are very long. And so I don't know, it's like the first and last songs rule, but like you got that, that middle section was just kind of drags a bit. And like, I don't know, this tournament is like, it's hooking me on all this crazy shit. And then like when there's something that's not crazy at all, like it's hard to win. And the Ika Shinjuu, I enjoyed. It has a pretty lo-fi recording, but you hear everything. The songs are very simple structure-wise, but the playing is excellent. The drumming is super killer, especially on the third track. And then the guitarist's left hand shines on the first track. Very aggressive riffing. The last song is killer, and it has a good chorus. And that little guitar lick underneath the dead you is so sick. Yeah, this one... It was an interesting matchup, but it wasn't close for me. I'm going the Ika Shinju as well. So that moves on to the next round. Okay. Let's go on. This matchup is going to be Lip Cream out of Tokyo. Their 7-inch Knight Rider More Than Fight came out in 1984. They are going up against Rebel out of Sendai City. They're self-titled Flexi from 1983. What do you think, Kev?
SPEAKER_01:So Lip Cream obviously is one of the seminal Japanese bands of all time. I think they get better after this, obviously with Nine Chalks Terror, which I think is probably their seminal record, which is real fast and crazy sounding. So this one is a bit more rough around the edges. I mean, it's really early for them, obviously. Rebel, I found to be more unhinged than Lip Cream. I thought they were pretty similar, but... Rebel sounded a bit crazier. So I was really going back and forth on this one about which I was going to pick because they kind of are giving me the same. But if something is crazier, I'm probably going to go for that. But then the last time I listened to it, the last song on the Rebel record, which is really long and kind of, you know, when bands there would kind of just do the really droning intro, outro song or something, that kind of just took me out of it last time. So I think that I'm going to go with Lip Cream again, even though, like I said, this one was pretty much a toss up for me and I came really close to choosing the Rebel record.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think that the Rebel record really suffers from like the second and fourth song dragging, which is unfortunate because that first song and the third song are so good. This is a band, they have a couple of members that also did that Bitosha band, just as a side note. But dude, this is going to sound crazy, but listen to that first song again. It sounds like 1980 Bad Brains. You know what I mean? Obviously, there's no HR, but the song, it has that Bad Brains swing. Where it's like, I'm listening to a hardcore punk song, but I'm also kind of shaking my hips. What is going on here? It's very good. Obviously, if the singer doesn't sound like HR at all, he's a pretty crazy singer as well. But obviously, no one's touching HR. But those first and third songs are so good in that early, bad brains way. And I think you should check it out, thinking about that and See if you agree with me or not. This is 1983. So, I mean, the Bad Brains are the best band in the world. You know what I mean? So, I'm sure people are chasing them. On to the lip cream. There was a little bit of controversy. A couple people got at me and said I should have taken the first 7-inch over this. I do like this one more, and that's why it's in the tournament. Although, A, this is all subjective, right? What we like matters. That's subjective. This might be my favorite lip cream thing there is. Kind of in the way that Poison ID, I think there's peaks and valleys, but that whole first run is very strong. The lip cream stuff sort of bounces back and forth too. The first one I like, the second one I love, and then that first LP I like, but then the second one I really like. So that's interesting in a way. But this 7-inch dude... It's so good. The band needs no introduction. They're a legendary Japanese hardcore band. This is their second 7-inch. They do two classic 7-inches in 1984. Then they do LPs in 86 and 87. And they do some LPs after that as well. But that's the classic run. Five songs in 10 minutes here. And this recording just sounds... So good, dude. Like the drums are thundering and they punch through like this wall of noise they set up between like the guitars and the bass. And it's weird in the way that like the guitars sound super panned out or like roomy almost. And then you have this bass tone that's like charging right down the middle. And the mix of the two of them is just absolutely perfect, dude. I do think the 7-inch suffers a little bit from the first song being like really whatever. Like when the punks go marching in, like, come on, dude. What the fuck? And Abrasive Wheels had their record called that too, like right around this time. Maybe a year or two earlier. So two bands with a bad idea there. But once you get past that first song, oh my god. Knight Rider more than Fight. Like... When it hits that shit, that is a fist pump ass chorus. Like that chorus is so good, dude. And then Yellow Beauty coming after that super sick left hand riffing, great fills from the drummer and a totally raging solo. And then into the VX2 song. All-timer, mid-tempo banger, dude. And then to cap the record with a good choice, it's a good sleazy rocker, slightly tuneful. But, dude, that three-song run, Knight Rider, More Than Fight, Yellow Beauty, and the VX-2 or whatever, oh, my God. You know what I mean? It's just back-to-back-to-back, like classics. Some of the best hardcore there is, in my opinion. This one's a no-brainer for me. I'm going lip cream. So they move on, and... Let's go to the next matchup, State Children. It was hard to find info on this band. I believe they may be out of Shimoseki, but I could be wrong. This is their bomb shelter for money-making flexi that came out in 1985. Again, very hard to find info on this band. Discogs didn't even have a list of the band member names, so hard to track down that way. They are going up against Kuro out of So this State Children
SPEAKER_01:record is probably the craziest sounding one that we've listened to for this entire tournament. It's crazy. The bass is up so loud that it just punches through everything. It's crazy. And then the guitar is so staticky that I had to listen to figure out if it was the hi-hats or the guitar. I couldn't figure it out. Literally, I'm like, wow, the hi-hat is really going crazy. And then I turned it up. I'm like, that's not the hi-hat. That's the guitar. So I kind of back it because of just how– like this doesn't sound like anything else really like the way the bass just punches through that's really the only way to describe it it's kind of it's marching on just breaking through and then the guitars are so low but so staticky it's just really crazy where Kuro is kind of more straightforward punk hardcore stuff from this era like I honestly don't really have too many notes about it other than it's just pretty good it's when you So I kind of was going thinking back and forth, like, should I pick state children just because it sounds insane? but I don't think that I can, I'm going to go Corot, but the state children thing just is really like, unlike anything else that I've ever heard.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. It had to go on here. Like I'm, I'm not like a noise aficionado. So like, I don't know if like you're a true noise head. If you listen to this and you're like, Oh my God, this is the Holy grail. Or if you listen to this and you're like, Oh, this is some bullshit, you know, zero clue. But to me, like, God damn, this is some harsh ass noise. Like, you know, in doing this like tournament, like you listen to all the bands and like you come away thinking like, okay, like Confuse and Good On are like noisy. You know what I mean? But like this is like literally 10 levels up from that. And it's wild too because their punk music is very like simple. You know what I mean? It's like you're listening to the Urinals or like a very simple Killed by Death band. But there's a static television sample mixed in over the top of it. And there's a crazy dude yelling too. You know what I mean? It doesn't sound like normal music at all. So I would have to say it's not for me. People that have listened to this podcast for 200 plus episodes know my taste. But I would say this is a true piece of really harsh, weirdo music. And so if you're into that... God damn, this might be your Holy grail. It went up against the Kuro seven inch and or eight inch that is. So this is their second EP. I enjoy it more than the first one. And I might like their 1986 one fire the most, but we're doing 81 to 85 here. I think this thing is great. Seven songs in 11 minutes, it kicks in and like, it doesn't sound necessarily like discharge, but it has like that droniness and that repetitiveness in it that like, prime discharge has, you know? And another thing that I like about this is like the recording is like so bottom heavy, which like works good for the style. It like adds that meat to the sound, which you want when you have like that repetitive riffing. And then it's funny. Cause like, you know, I say that about, Oh, it doesn't necessarily sound like discharge, but then the second song kicks and it's like, okay, now we just sound like discharge, which is cool. I mean, like it does sound like a slowed down discharge in a way. And it's absolutely great. And then song three, it just like breaks loose and goes into great straight up, fast, hardcore. It's an insane vocalist. It's like everything you want in like, Japanese hardcore when you want it kind of over the plate, but you still want them to get a little crazy. That song Selfish Cow might be my favorite. It's a full-on ripper. This one's a no-brainer for me. I'm going the Kuro as well. So they move on to the next round. Okay, now the next matchup here, we have a heavy favorite to go at least to the finals. The Execute out of Tokyo, their 7-inch Hardcore Temptation from 1983. This is a legendary band, of course. They put out four EPs in the 1983 to 1985 range, so it was very hard to choose which one to take here. They are going up against LSD, also out of Tokyo. They're Destroy Flexi from 1984. This is their first 7-inch. They put out another one in 1986 with a new lineup. Kev, what do you think about this matchup and who are you taking?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is a pretty heavy-hitting first-round matchup because both of these are kind of big time cited bands and records. So it's, it's interesting to see it in the first round. The execute obviously is classic and I really like it here. You know, the, the flexi two is, is kind of a classic one, which I have seen in the wild. It was in Japan and it was$2,000, but I did see it. I did see it. I, somebody I knew or I ran into and they there and they in the store coincidentally across the world. And they were just like, yo, there's an execute flexi over there. So I went over and looked at him like, my God, there it is. Um, but the, uh, the LSD record, I really like a lot. I think that it sounds, they, they really hit the balance of where things are sounding chaotic and, um, You don't really know what's going to happen, but you still hear everything and everything sounds clear, even though it sounds really distorted. And that's a tricky bounce, right? We just talked about other things on here that don't quite have that. So the execute kind of hits all of the notes of what you want for this. I mean, it's a classic record. It's really kind of hard for me to... boil it down more than that. They're a classic band and it's Japanese hardcore to the T, but so is LSD. And honestly, that's what I'm going to pick. I'm going to pick the LSD record on here. It's one that I've liked before we did this. It's one that I've been gravitated to and it's what I'm going to go with now.
SPEAKER_05:That's wild in my opinion, but I respect it. I think on this side of the bracket, you have a lot more of the good, straightforward, fast hardcore. But It's hard to go against someone like The Execute when they're like, this record is so good. I mean, the first one is classic as well. But this is the one that I like the most. The record sounds amazing. That first song, Final Attack, that riff on it is so good. And the chorus is great. And it has that amazing solo. It might be the best solo on the side of the bracket. And then it flows just seamlessly into the mid-tempo banger, Blackwater. And that's like... probably neck and neck with lip creams, the VX2 for the best MTB in the whole tournament. So I don't know. The songwriting here is just like, it's on such a high level and it's so early, dude. It's 1983, you know, like an example that would be like them hitting like that bass break after the first chorus on a will border. Like the songwriting is just so high level here and the recording sounds great. It's just like every little piece of this is so good. And yeah, I mean like, fuck, if it gets out of the first round, it is a contender to win the whole thing. So we'll see the LSD. I enjoy a lot as well. Five songs in five minutes starts with a drum and guitar doing like kind of a gallop and then it kicks in. And when it kicks in, it's, It's pretty psychotic because it's like a bouncy ass tempo with like manic reverb type vocals. And then like it goes into like a 17 second ripper. You know what I mean? Like they're just going for it. And Kill You is probably my favorite song on here. The last song is like an 18 second instrumental, which is insane. Like to think of that, you know, like we're used to in USHC, like, you know, bands doing an intro or something, but like we would never think about doing like a 17 second instrumental fast song. So it's super sick if you're into like. That really fast early 80s hardcore, like the Neos or like Hated Youth. I think you'd like this a lot and it would be up your alley, but I can't go against the Execute. I am going the Execute Hardcore Temptation, which means we are going to a tiebreaker. Let's give Dan a call.
SPEAKER_06:Yo.
SPEAKER_05:The Execute Hardcore Temptation or LSD Destroy. The
SPEAKER_06:Execute Hardcore Temptation.
SPEAKER_05:Kev, you're not winning this one. He went with the execute, so the execute move on. I
SPEAKER_01:was due. I figured it would happen on this one.
SPEAKER_07:That's true. You can't win them all.
SPEAKER_05:All right. The next matchup is Systematic Death out of Yokohama. Their Systema Flexi 7-inch from 1984 going up against Nurse out of Tokyo. That is Nurse 2, their 7-inch out of 1984. Systematic Death, this is their first EP, but this band had a very long career, and they are still around today, I believe. And then a quick note on Nurse, they are an all-girl band. This is their second EP. I enjoy them both, but I like this one more. Yeah, this is a crazy matchup, dude, because Systematic Death right over the plate. What do you think, Kev?
SPEAKER_01:So Nurse, I, it sounded, I mean, this is going to be very on the nose, but like, it sounded like a Riot Grrrl band from a few years later, like, you know, Bramobile or Bikini Kill or something like that. Like, I have no idea if that this band is a reference point for those, but like, it sounds similar. And of course, you know, an all girl band. might easily sound like that, but I just kind of, it reminded me quite a lot, not just in being an all-girl band, but like, and how the vocals are kind of delivered and the way the vocal melodies go. And they're kind of, they're kind of melodic, but also kind of yelled, not just sang. And I think that you can hear that a lot in the bands that come after them. So I don't know if this is an influential record or not, but it feels like it could be. On the other hand, Systematic Death is just really, blazing the whole time. They're a band that has been on my radar for a long time, obviously, because they're seen as a legendary band, but also they're a band that has come over to the US quite a bit over the past 20 years. But I think because specifically, especially when I was younger, because they weren't a Burning Spirits band, I think that I was kind of not as quick to check them out as I probably should have. And I had never really dove in quite as much as I should have through the last decade or so. But they're just blazing. And it's probably the fastest thing that we've listened to on here, at least the most consistently fast. And it just rages and is blazing. So that's what I... I really like how the production, it just kind of, you know, the drums are just pummeling and everything just kind of really goes. And so I'm going to go systematic death here.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think this band rips. Eight songs, 10 minutes. It's six studio tracks and two live ones. But this recording is really good. You can hear everything. It's just good, raging, fast, hardcore punk. Like, executed very well. And then there's some super simple catchy choruses, which is what I want to hear. That's like what makes songs stand out. And you don't just have like a morass of like fast core bullshit. So like systematic death and sync you, those are both great choruses moving on to nurse. This is a longer record for songs in 11 minutes. It has a good recording and it has a great bass tone. So that's that. But, uh, Kev called out that it's definitely, you can tell, it's like a girl singer on this one. Because it's a very feminine voice compared to that Betosha. That had a female singer too, and you would have never known. It could have been fucking Glenn Benton. You know what I mean? But this is like, I enjoy her voice. And that first song, it starts very droney, but then it kicks into like an MTB at the end. That's a very cool little thing. And then I don't know if they do themselves a disservice, but they save the last, the last song is the best. Like it's the most straight hardcore. And then that guitar tone on the solo is just absolutely crazy. So this is a very cool seven inch. I enjoy this a lot and I enjoy their other record too. So yeah, it is a toss. So I'm going to go, I'm going to go nurse on this. I just think it's a more interesting record, although I enjoy the systematic death a lot. So let's go to a tiebreaker. We're going to call Dan. Yo. Systematic Death Systema or Nurse Nurse 2? Systematic Death Systema. All right, Kev, you're back in the win column. Dan is taking Systematic Death, so that is what will move on. And now we are in the final matchup of the night. is Tranquilizer from Hokkaido. Their self-titled Flexi from 1985 going up against Ghoul out of Tokyo. Their 7-inch carryout fucking came out in 1984. The Tranquilizer versus Systematic Death would have been a pretty good matchup because those are just two raging fast bands that do it really well. A little note here on Tranquilizer. The singer of this band is married to a pro wrestler named Jaguar Yokota, which is pretty sick. And then Jaguar Yokota, she actually has a couple records out too.
SPEAKER_01:And she's like one of the legendary pro wrestlers too, not just like a random one. She's an all-time pro wrestler.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and I think that the dude– so the singer of this band that's married to her is like a famous doctor now too. So like they're like a celebrity couple, which is wild because like– This Tranquilizer record is wild. Six songs in five minutes. It's super fast, thrashy, noisy. I love the song Never Go to War. Starts with that clean channel guitar strumming and then just goes buck on you. This is like, again, I got to reference the Neos. This is like Neos, but on meth. It's a sick-ass notable record, I think. But the Ghoul 7-inch is, again, I think one of the best records ever. in the tournament five songs 12 minutes very cool recording super fuzzy guitar but like that bass cuts through nicely the drums do sound a little bit tinny but like overall it sounds really good and the gangs on the first song sound great really like the production of all these japanese records has been fabulous in the way that like they all sound different but they all sound good you know like i don't know the engineers over there must have really just been killing it because you have so many bands and like nothing ends up sounding very homogenous, which is just absolutely fabulous. Yeah. This is like relentless in the most aggressive, like UK 82 way. I think like if you think about maybe like one way system mixed with chaos UK, but with crazier Japanese vocals, that's what you get here. It's just, it's great playing great recording. And yeah, I'm going cool. What do you think Kev?
SPEAKER_01:This Tranquilizer record is wild. It's so short. Every song is so short where you can't even really process what's going on when you're listening to it, which I think is cool. The guitarist is just all over the neck of the guitar, but I think he's hitting half of the notes, which I think is a cool thing here. That's a feature, not a bug. It's just really crazy and I've used unhinged quite a bit, but this is right one filing right in there. I think that this is another like fun thing to find from this project because again, it's just, this is not something I think that people would consider classic. I mean, I don't know, but like just listening to it, it's not something that's considered classic, but it's different than everything else that we've listened to on this. And I think that that's what makes it really interesting. But you're right about the ghoul. This is just a classic Japanese hardcore record. The production is great, like you said. The vocals kind of fall off the stick a little bit, but in a great way. And yeah, this is just exactly the type of stuff that you listen to regularly. kind of Japanese punk and hardcore for. Like I said, I don't have anything. It's funny with the classic stuff. It's kind of harder to say stuff about it sometimes because it's just kind of classic and great, whereas something like Tranquilizer, which isn't as much, it's kind of easier to talk about. So I'm going to go for Ghoul on this one pretty easily, although the Tranquilizer record is really a fun and interesting listen.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I agree. I mean, I had never heard of that before. And so that was like a nice surprise, like in a different way. Like I liked the Betosha record so much just because they took a lot of risks and like went weird in a way that I hadn't heard like other stuff on here, but like not weird in a way I don't like weird in a way that I do like, you know, but like this tranquilizer was like a nice surprise. And yeah, I I'm with you, dude. Like some of the classic stuff is harder to explain. I think just because like, there's such a, an intangible thing here in the highest level of these legendary Japanese bands. It's like the secret sauce, right? They have the it factor, and it's hard to explain that. But you feel it when you listen to the records. They are just ones that stand out more than others. So that does it for the first round. In a month or two, we will go on to the quarterfinals when this stuff is going to really start getting hard. So we will see. Both Anthony's and Carl from Killing Time, Doug Holland, Eddie and AJ from Leeway, Rabies, Glenn Danzig, Jerry Olney, Doyle, Kevin Seconds, Craig Zatari, Joe from Infest, Mike Judge, Ray and Porcel, Siv, and of course, my guest today, the godfather of Vinny Stigma. Vinny, are Italians the MVPs of American hardcore?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I go to church every day anyway. You know, today's Holy Thursday. Tomorrow's Good Friday. No meat. Tomorrow.
SPEAKER_08:That
SPEAKER_00:was like every Friday used to be no meat because I'm Catholic, you know, and then they got away with that law like or whatever. Now it's only on Good Friday, which is I could do that, you know.
SPEAKER_05:For real, though, that's like a good list of Italian dudes in classic American hardcore bands. Like, what do you attribute to that?
SPEAKER_00:You're left out by Gallo, Lou DiBella. There's a lot of, well, in this area, a lot of Italian people lived, you know? My neighborhood, there was only Italian people, and then little Italy, and then there was Chinese people. I grew up with Chinese and Italian kids and some Puerto Rican kids. There was no Polish kids or Irish kids. or black or whatever. A couple of Jewish kids from, you know, a little, but nah, it was only basically that. New York was a little more segregated then. There was Spanish Harlem, Harlem, Hell's Kitchen, you know, and to be honest with you, it breeds culture, you know, in a way, you know, you go to China, you eat Chinese food, you do, you know, you go to Little Italy, you get Italian food, you know, it's kind of cool, you know.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Especially if it's safe. You could go with your wife and kid, have a nice dinner, you know? Have a glass of wine, walk through the streets, go to cafes, you know?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Vinny, in your book, you talked about how there was a divide between the bands that played Max's Kansas City and CBGB. Can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know, like I said, a lot of guys don't want to make the jump. You know, you know, I mean, times change, you know. I'm putting out a new album. I got a new album. As a matter of fact, I got a country album coming out on the 12th. It's soon called The Outlaw Vinny Stigma. You know, and you'd be surprised. You're not going to hear like a Johnny Cash cover. OK, you know, you're going to hear like. Like kind of Civil War songs and stuff like that. All right. So I got that on the radar, and I just recorded a new album for Gnostic Front, untitled at the moment. Even some of the songs are untitled, but it's complete, you know? Whatever. Just got to get the artwork and get it mastered. So I'll have two albums coming out this year. But back to what you were saying. Sorry about that. About, like, the old school guys. They just didn't get it. I don't know. They didn't make the jump. You know, clubs were closing, you know, especially when Max's closed. That was the death of the old punk, like, glam punk and... You know, that kind of stuff. And it just went to the street, a lot of it, you know, because there was nowhere to go except for CBGB's then became the spot. I mean, CB's was always the spot, but it wasn't the glam place like Max's, you know. It was like the street kids now, you know, because it's on the Lower East Side, you know. So, I mean, it's only around a quarter from my house, so I was always there, you know. You know, it was like a thing. I'd be there like now talking to you, you know, I'd be in the phone booth in the front, the old fashioned phone booth. I love it. They had that phone booth in there forever.
SPEAKER_05:Can you talk about like the birth of hardcore in New York City? Like and and what do you think was like the first New York hardcore band or record?
SPEAKER_00:It could have been the mob. Oh, no. There was the Stimulators. There was Kraut. Then everyone was doing EP, you know? So Kraut had the first album album, you know? Stimulators, I don't know if they have an album. You know, I'm not a key on these things anymore because I gave all my records away over 40 years ago.
SPEAKER_08:Because I was an easy touch.
UNKNOWN:Hey, Vinnie, let me borrow the record. Like, yeah, okay, yeah, sure. Two months later, hey, you got my record? He said, nah, I lent it out. You lent my record out.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I lent it to you. Not for you to lend, you know? I just asked a friend about two years ago, I gave him a Beastie Boys record. I said, hey, how's that be? He says, oh, I sold it. You sold it? Where's my card? What do I get out of it? I give it to you as a gesture, you know? Yeah. You know, you do it, you give it back. You don't want it. All right. Oh, let's get me my cut.
SPEAKER_05:That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The stimulators, that was just a seven inch. So,
SPEAKER_00:yeah, you know what I mean? You know, the crowd was different, but when we landed with victim in pain with the gatefold, that was it. We changed the whole sound. That was New York hardcore. We had our scene going on. We had United Blood. There was Cause for Alarm. They had their EP. The Mob had their EP. Urban Waste had their EP. And there was a couple of other bands that maybe cut a record or two, like Ultraviolence. maybe even much less than the hypocrites. But they were from the old You know? And I never forget, because I love the songs. They were... Butch Loss was a gujin. Speaking of Italian. He was a gujin. He didn't get it. He had, like, long, jerry curl hair, like Rick James. But he thought he was a punk rocker. And he would make songs like Smash Strats. Smash Strats. I see Smash Strats. I see Smash Strats. Smash Strats. It was so great. But he had a great guitar player in the band. This guy, Lenny. You know? So... really like to you know watch the band you know because the guitar player was awesome but uh the content was stupid you know he had another song makeup makeup makeup oh i love it he passed away years ago you know he really didn't make the jump but he came along with everybody. There was Ira. He was another one from the old school. He was the cashier with CBGBs when it was like$3, three bands. And he'd be at the door. That was the early, as far as records go, that's the way it goes in some people. Ira passed away too.
SPEAKER_05:Going back before Victim in Pain, though, what does it feel like to write a riff as good as Friend or Foe? Do you remember at all where you
SPEAKER_00:were? Yes, I do. I wanted to use the full... Well, first of all, I was a musician before punk rock. I played in bands. I used to do biker rock, bad companies, stuff like that. Those kind of bands. A couple of originals... Steppenwolf song, you know, we would like, you know, like hard music, you know. Now this is going back 73. All right. Then like when the 77, I was jumping all over the place with my band, The Eliminators. You know, I'd fucking roll into fucking CBGB's or Max's Kansas City with a fucking, because I lived down here. All the Italian kids come to see me because I was Vinnie. They all loved me. And I'm from the neighborhood. But I used to hang out in Chinatown with one of my friends that was in the band. He hung out in Chinatown, too. And all the Chinese gangs used to come see my band. And they all used to spike their hair and wear sunglasses. They all had the leather jacket. They were like, who the hell is this guy in this crowd? You know, I brought a tough crowd, you know? And it was really cool. You know, that's how I did that job.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. But as far as like writing a riff, like friend or foe, like what's that
SPEAKER_00:like? Oh, sorry. Yeah. Okay. I want to use the full neck of the guitar.
SPEAKER_08:That's right.
SPEAKER_00:That's another thing. I want to go high. I want to go low on the neck. I want to go high. I want to go low. You know, sometimes there's that box pattern, you know, and like somewhat of a 12-bar blues. And there's like somewhat of a progressive pattern. I want it to just go fly all over the place. You know, there are a lot of riffs in there that are like fast and faster. You know, so like today, Roger has his band, The Alligators, and they're like the... They're like the United Blood EP type, you know, but 40 years later and a lot much more matured, you know. But that raw sound sometimes because you can't get those amps. You can't get those distortion boxes. You know, you're not going to get the sound. You know, I did that on the 16 track. Everything was 8 track. You know, at the time, eight track was a big deal. Then when we did a sick dance at Third's Den, it all started, you know, going crazy. But I did a 16 track on Victim in Pain. And that was kind of, you know, because they did eight tracks just on the drums alone. You know what I mean? You got the high cymbals. Just think of all the drums that got to get mic'd up. Then you got a singer, bass, guitar. You want an open mic here or there. You go through 16 channels, no problem. That's why years ago with the eight track, everything, or the four track, everything bled into each other. So it had that warm feeling. Me personally, you know, this is how I like it. Then, you know, all the tracks, then the analog, then the digital, you know, it gets sliced up a lot. Now you got the pro tools, you know, which I love. Makes life easy. When I used to have to record a song, you used to have to record the whole song. You get something wrong, it's over. You got to start from the get, you know. It was pretty cool, you know, it was challenging.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so on Victim in Pain, you recorded all the music live. Everyone was together. Right. Yeah. Did Roger do the vocals at the same time too, or did he do his vocals after?
SPEAKER_00:You know, that's a good question. I should know that. But I don't know. Trump's running in isolation. That was big for us. But we were all live in the studio. He might have done them live in the studio. Yeah, I think he might have.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I'll ask him because I know like Minor Threat did it both ways on different records. I just saw you the other day. Oh, right. I told you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. What are your memories of A7? And like, How important was that to the scene?
SPEAKER_00:Well, A7 was in my father's neighborhood. You know, he used to hang out in the park there. My mother was from the west side. You know, my father was from the east side. You know, and that was like my neighborhood. You know, like that was my grandmother's neighborhood. You know what I mean? And you don't commit crimes in your grandmother's neighborhood, Gavish. That's from the godfather. Because you bring disgrace. Well, that's the lesson. Anyway, I used to hang out at the A7 Club. It used to be a candy store when I was a little kid, you know. And then it became, it was a bandage for a minute, you know. And then this guy Dave just opened up this after hour speakeasy joint, you know, totally illegal, like, you know. And we all used to hang out in there, you know. And the bands would play and we all go in this little room, we mush it up. We go out, you know, there was a little bar area, like a built bar. Like it's not like even a real joint, you know? Then in the back, there was like a couple of couches. Everybody would just mill around, you know? I go in there now, I kind of not recognize it because, you know, they broke through the wall and you could go into another section and I'd never go there. I don't recognize it. And I walked through it. Well, thank God for Jesse Malin. That's another thing. Speaking of A7. He saved A7. He did a lot. He does a lot for the punk scene with the Bowery Electric. You know what I mean? Those are free shows. Kids get to premiere their bands online. You know what I mean? The ground bag guy walks on because he does a lot for music, underground music.
SPEAKER_05:Vinny, you brought up The Godfather right there. Which mob movies do you think are legit? Which do you think are bullshit?
SPEAKER_00:You know... I mean, I grew up with the old ones, the roaring 20s, angels with dirty faces, white heat, you know, Little Caesar, the James Cagney, you know what I mean? Because they had that kind of, you know, that machine gun, you know? Speaking of which, my apartment, which I'm talking to you right out of, Vincent Cole lived here. He was in Al Capone's outfit. He was a German. I think he was German or Polish. And he was a gangster. And he came to work right across the street in Murder Incorporated, right across the street here. You walk out my door, it was Murder Incorporated. There they were. And he lived in this apartment. Now, I'm going back to 1925. We know who lived in this apartment. Of course, my family lived here. in all these apartments, you know? I'm the only one left, you know? As a matter of fact, the building is 100 years old. It opened up in 1925, this building, and my family was the first one to move in. I'm
SPEAKER_05:here
SPEAKER_00:100 years,
SPEAKER_05:my family. Of the other ones, like the newer ones that people know, do you think that any are good?
SPEAKER_00:Ah, Rockstale's good, you know? I mean, you know, you know, you know... Yeah, you know, the Godfather has lessons in it. You know, it all comes, that's the garlic and oil, the Godfather, you know. I still think they should have used Rob Duvall in part three. They still got beef, you know. Yeah, because they filmed it in the neighborhood. Yeah, all the kids in the neighborhood got$25 and a haircut. It was a big deal. My friend Googie, he passed away. he uh he was you see him quick in it like something but i never noticed it you know everybody i didn't miss it there it goes but they filmed a lot in the neighborhood elizabeth street especially because elizabeth street is uh sicilian or like they would say shakadan or or uh Like, they had their own saints, like St. Vito, San Chiro, San Galocho. And on my street, all the nobilidans lived like me. They had different saints, like San Rocco, San Junaro is the big one, you know? And I live on the block with the church, you know? So there was always... As a matter of fact, that's the church I got burnt down, if you ever watch the gangs in New York.
SPEAKER_05:You guys... were serious like road warriors. You toured a lot. And you came to the West Coast the first time in 1985. What are your memories of coming out to California the first time?
SPEAKER_00:84, but nobody's complaining. What am I complaining? I remember living on A.M.P.M. A.M.P.M. Hot Dogs and a Big Goat. One dollar. Listen to this for a dollar. Three hot dogs and a Big Goat. So I lived on three dollars a day. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I was hitting links. That's what you got to do when you're on tour.
SPEAKER_05:Do you remember anything about playing with GBH at the Olympic Auditorium?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, whatever. But I'll tell you another story that Jacques just told me the last time I was in England. I saw him. He says, hey, Vinnie, you remember when we lost your guitar in Texas? I forgot all about it. I lost my guitar in Dallas, Texas. The next day, like, I don't know, I was in Austin, let's say, because they came over back then with no guitars. They had to play out of our equipment. So they used to play out of my guitar. I wonder if Jack has any photos of him with my guitar. That would be cool, because he's one of my guitar heroes. He's a guitar slinger. Anyway, they would come over with nothing, because they didn't have a work visa. It was different then. And when we went on tour, we broke a string. We changed the one string. It was like, wow. It was so rural. And who tuned and who took care of guitars the way we do today? You know, with the tuning, all the wireless and all that. But I tell you, even they got a lot better, too. Well, you know, 40-something years, you know, and they're great. You know, I went on their fire tour. What is it? Give Me Fire. That was the name of the tour. That was in 86. And we went all the way down. We made a lot of friends. But I toured before that in 84. That was in the Olympic Auditorium. We played with them. I don't know if it was them. I think it was the Exploited. Was it the Exploited and GBH? I know Dr. No was on it. I know...
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, exploited UK subs, Dr.
SPEAKER_00:No. UK subs, exploited UK subs. I remember the poster now. Not GBH, I believe. So many years, believe me, I've been there. Sometimes I get a little confused. Yeah, 86 is with GBH. That's when you played. Yeah, and then we played baseball with them and they cheated. We made a trophy, you know what I mean? We said, come on, we're going to play. They cheated. It was great. We still talk
SPEAKER_05:about it till today. Yeah, but what was it like playing like a show that big in that era, like playing Olympic to like thousands of people?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it was challenging for me in a way because, you know, I'm a I'm an underground punk rock hardcore band. And to step on a stage where it's taller than people, I'm not used to. You know what I mean? My stages are about two, three feet, maybe. You know what I mean? Like CBGB's, let's say. I don't know. I should have measured the height of the stage. That's a good question. I would say it's about three feet.
SPEAKER_05:So, yeah, in 86, he played Fenders of GBH, and Fenders Ballroom in Long Beach had, like, a real reputation for being a violent place. What do you remember about that?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I remember a real... I mentioned all the bands that played there, and... We had a great time. You know, that's when I became Charlie Harper's friend. A very good friend of mine, Charlie Harper. And I always tell him I'm going to kill him because he's the oldest punk rocker in the world. And I want to be the oldest punk rocker in the world. He's such a sweet guy. But it was, you know, the cops were off the hook. There were cars overturned, helicopters, fires. You know, there were kids with their heads cracked open. Like, you know, cops in New York... I didn't feel that bad, you know, like when, you know, whatever. I thought the L.A. cops were like a little, like off the hook, you know? Yeah. But, yeah, it was a lot of chaos, you know, and, you know, part of the stage got damaged. So our speaker fell. It was people getting hurt all over the place. Cops running, big kids running. It was really... It's one of my early L.A. experiences. So I was like, yo, welcome to California.
SPEAKER_05:Do you have any memories of playing San Diego? You played the Jackie Robinson YMCA in 86, and then you played another spot in 88.
SPEAKER_00:Let's see. 86, that would be with GBH.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that was GBH.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't remember that exactly, but... Yeah, I had my Marshall head. I had my cabinet and my guitar. My wires, everything. Jock just had to play on everything because, like I said, they never came with a visa. They just came in as tourists or something. And yeah, you know, I remember there were a few, like sometimes I would play three shows in a week. I'd be in California for two weeks and I'd play like five, six shows. You know, because we have to lay over a couple of days. We have to wait for the weekend. Like now you get booked like with a it's a string of bookings, you know. Then it was like word of mouth, flyer, you know, or you got to be in the know or something like that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I know that's kind of just putting you on the spot. Do you remember this one specific show from 86? That's a ridiculous question, but I got one last one like that. In 1990, you played Iguanas in Tijuana. Yes, okay. Do you remember anything about going to Tijuana? I like the Iguana Club. It's closed now, I believe, right? Yeah, it closed in like 92 or
SPEAKER_00:something. Oh, yeah? Oh, too bad, because I liked it. It was set up nice. The sound was good. You know, it was right there. You know what I mean? You could come back to America in like two hours, you know? It was a good... It was like, in a way, when like... I don't mind anywhere I could drive to, whether it's Toronto, Montreal, or Tijuana, you know. As long as I could drive, I'll get there.
SPEAKER_05:Did you guys go out and party at all, or did you just go to the show and that's it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, back in the day... It was a rolling party, like, kind of. But it was more party, adventure, you know, survival, you know? Having fun, making friends, you know? I mean, I still have friends still today, you know? So I come to a fucking stop sign in the middle of the desert, right? And it says, so I'm looking around, and I'm in the fucking middle of the desert. There's no fucking cars. So I look at the sign and I go. I get stopped up the road. They said they had aerial surveillance. That was on the way to the show. So another time I'm in the desert. I come to the same stop sign in the desert. They said, beware, endangered turtles like crossing the road. So there was a turtle crossing the road. What did I do? I forget. My friend likes animals. He had that turtle for 25, 30 years in his backyard. It looked like a stone moving around.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, my God. That's hilarious. Vinny, One Voice is one of my favorite AF records. What's your opinion on that record and that era of Agnostic Front? Okay.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It goes back to the jump, from glam to punk-like jump, from punk to hardcore, from hardcore to crossover, from crossover to the new hardcore, which... I had to learn all these styles of playing through my life. You know, like the new hardcore, like Mabel, slip, it slips, it's slick, it's groove, you know. Back in the old days, in 83, it was just crunch, you know, attack, kill, you know. But it's more finesse now. Well, everything got better. The kids play good today. You know, back in the old days, it was like, hey, what do you do? I don't do nothing. Hey, you play the bass, you know? And I take the truth in a way I think there's an originality come out of that, you know, that you get that flavor in a way, kind of like, you know, segregation breeds culture, you know? Something like that. Some kind of bullshit
SPEAKER_05:like that, whatever. Can you talk about why you broke up in 93? You break up pretty soon after that record. You go on a Europe tour and then that's it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we had a lot of issues in Nasik Front. And I say there are three. Shot, stabbed, imprisoned. Okay? Now the new three things is pandemic, cancer, And I forget what else. But, you know, went through a lifetime of, you know, when Roger, I guess he'll tell you the story or it's in his book or whatever. You know, when he got locked up, you know, I didn't want to do it with anybody else, you know. You know, like, you know, I would never get another singer. Like, you know, I just wait for my guy to get out of jail, that kind of. So I did my fantasy band, Madball. And, you know, we were like somewhat of a Madball, you know? So we did the Madball thing. Well, like, kind of Roger was in jail. You know, then Freddie got us all together. And we were playing a show. And he says, hey, man, let's get the, you know, like, kind of. We were never really broken up. But, you know, the guy gets out of jail, let him have a little space, you know? Yeah. You know, sometimes don't just jump. Let him enjoy what he's been missing. You know, the relaxation, you know, the whatever. Then we'll fucking be road warriors. Yeah, I want
SPEAKER_05:to talk about when you guys get back, because that's a great era of the band. But real quick, what was it like playing Dynamo with Madball in 1995? First of all,
SPEAKER_00:we were totally unprofessional. We were totally not ready. We totally don't belong. We totally took the cake. That was it. That's the bottom line. We fucking broke the ice with a hardcore band to get on a stage like that and shake the crowd up like they did. It was a great lineup because we were on Roadrunner Records, which was a big label. There was Hyponegative, Biohazard, I think Life Agony maybe. I forget, you know, all those kinds of guys, you know. And then the other guys, you know, the other style. But we rolled a lot together, you know, festival to festival. But I tell you right now, Dynamo was awesome. They were abandoning their cars along the highway. They were just leaving their cars. That's why they won't have one that big anymore. The Wacken Festival is very big, you know, but it's the whole town kind of thing. It's set up, I guess, a little different. The main stage, the Dynamo, and all those shirts they used to make with the Samurai Warrior, I guess, the symbol.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. The Dynamo show is just so wild because, like, Madball is so raw, you know, like, It's not ready for a giant stage like that yet, but the people are still just soaking it up. Oh,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. No way. We were totally unprofessional. The wire got caught in the pegs of the guitar. We were on wire. Now we're wireless. It's a different thing. Got a different amp. You know? It was, they just threw us up there and we just went for it. It was a Hail Mary, I gotta say. On Easter Sunday, it's a Hail Mary.
SPEAKER_05:When the band gets back together in 96, 97, like that Something's Gotta Give era, that was the first time I'd ever saw you guys. I saw you guys three times around that time. And you were amazing. What do you think about that record and that era of AF? Do you think it's underrated? Because like, That's one of your best records, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. You know, it's a punk record. It's more of a punk, hardcore punk type thing. Yeah, it was totally a trilogy of the music. But I got my new album out. It's going to be great. I got some special guests on it, too. All right, what are we
SPEAKER_05:looking at in the new record?
SPEAKER_00:A lot of, something you won't expect. A lot of melody, maturity, you know, something you don't expect, agnostic front too. That's another cool thing in a way. Because we kind of always like, you know, try to reinvent ourselves and, you know, you know, I made a record every three years for over 40 years. A studio album. I mean, I throw my live album in there anyway because there's a day of CBGBs, you know? And I know somewhere in there my dog was in the crowd. Things I think of when I'm on stage. Where's my dog? Especially when I was in CBGBs, you know? As a matter of fact, I was walking with my son in his house. And I run across Joey Ramone's robot. Because he was a toy collector, Joey. And he had the robot on the console of the soundboard. It was there forever. Like, you know? And Joey passed. And my kid was there one day. You know, he's a little kid. I don't know. I was five, six. I don't know. Running around CBGBs with my dog. You know? And my kid was... And I think Tommy Victor from... You know Tommy Victor? Yeah. What's the name of the band? Prong. Prong, Prong, Prong. Right. Anyway, he gave my kid the thing. He said, Vinny, let your kid have it, you know? And I was just thinking about that last line. Sorry to get off subject.
SPEAKER_08:No, it's all good.
SPEAKER_00:I always get off subject with a lot of people like you. Because I think you're great at the view, you know?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I appreciate that. This is the last thing I got for you, Vinny. Sure. AF has always been able to adapt to the times without seeming like you're chasing a trend or a sound.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I hear you. I understand. How do you
SPEAKER_05:pull
SPEAKER_00:that off? Why? Because I stood true to the music. I didn't do like at the time in the 90s, like hardcore bands did a little hippity hop. You know, I didn't go for that. And you'd be surprised on my album who might make an appearance on my new AF record. And like, but it's not that we, it's, we didn't go along with the trend. You know what I mean? You got to go along with the times, not with the trend, you know, because things get outdated. I mean, hey, I, you know, you guys, when I make a record, I think to myself, how's this record going to sound eight, 10 years from now? Is it still going to be relevant? Like when you hear it? So, yes, there's an element to making a record. Don't go with a trend. A lot of bands do that. It gets like, that was trendy. But basically, in the end, it's trendy, you know? Especially with the hippity hop thing. I think a lot of bands, you know, had no business doing it, like, you know? In my opinion, anyway. I mean, hip-hop should be hip-hop, you know? I like pure whatever. I'm a big fan of underground stuff, you know?
SPEAKER_05:Vinny, you've been so generous with your time.
SPEAKER_00:And listen, because we ended the thing with the hip-hop. That's why I did this. You see who's on my record next.
SPEAKER_05:To be continued,
SPEAKER_00:you're going to call
SPEAKER_05:me back. And
SPEAKER_00:we're going to discuss this fucking very moment.
SPEAKER_05:That's right. That's right. Yeah, we'll talk again when the record comes out. I'm excited.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure, Zach. Anytime.
SPEAKER_05:All right, Vinny. Thanks so much for your time.
SPEAKER_00:You got it.
SPEAKER_02:All right, Dan, final thoughts on the pod. I loved talking these new bands and loved hearing you two chat about the Japanese stuff. Like, it's interesting because, you know, I've got... It's a bit of a blind spot for me. I've tried educating myself a little bit more, so that's cool. And, you know, one step further into the Poison Idea world.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, we're in full Uncharted territory for me now because I've never listened to anything after blank Blackout Vacant. So I'm looking forward to it. We got the LP. We got to do it. Kev,
SPEAKER_01:final thoughts? Great interview. Very insightful. Enjoyed it quite a bit. And then otherwise, you know, more... Good stuff coming out all the time, so appreciate that. United Blood a few weekends ago was awesome. The Hard Stripes sets all weekend were maybe the best sets I've seen all year. And yeah, Hardcore is still great. Dan, where can the people find you?
SPEAKER_02:On Instagram, at Southport Instagrammer.
SPEAKER_01:Kev, where can the people find you? Instagram, NotFairToFlare. And Fall Salvation is on Instagram as well. FallSalvationHC. Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Everyone get at me, 185MilesSouth at gmail.com. Also, we got the website, 185MilesSouth.com. There is a playlist for every episode. You can go to 185MilesSouth.com. Click that playlist link at the top of the page, or you can just find us on Spotify. We are also... writing about punk and hardcore sometimes on Substack. So check that out. And we're on all the socials. If you like this podcast, consider supporting it by becoming a patron. That would be awesome. Patreon.com slash 185 miles south. And that is where we will see you next Monday behind the dreaded paywall.
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