Welcome to the Vietnam Is Awesome podcast. We’ll help you discover the real Vietnam with Awesome experiences.
In this episode my guest, Mischa Smith, has lived in Vietnam for 10 years now. He's worked at Pasteur Street Brewing Company for eight and a half, most of those as the sales director spreading amazing craft beer across Vietnam.
And he's also the co-host of the Beer Stories podcast, which is produced by myself and Seven Million Bikes podcast and shares stories of craft beer, highlighting the amazing beer that we have here in Vietnam.
We talk about;
Why he loves Saigon so much
The growth of the craft beer industry in Vietnam
The best places to eat and drink in Saigon
And like every guest, he shares;
What is a good 24 hour itinerary in Saigon
What life is like for locals?
Is it a good place to live? And why?
Where should travellers go next in Vietnam after Saigon?
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While a Vietnam podcast is on break right now, I'll be sharing these episodes with you so that you can discover the real Vietnam. Whether you currently live here already, want to come visit or see more of this amazing.
Mischa Smith:
Welcome to the Vietnam is awesome podcast. We'll help you discover the real Vietnam with awesome experience. I'm Niall Mackay, your host, and I've lived in Vietnam since 2016. I'm the host of a Vietnam podcast, a comedian and brand ambassador for Vietnam. Is. I came to Vietnam for a two week vacation in 2015 and was immediately taken back by the beauty, friendliness, energy, and even the quirks of Vietnam. I came back in 2016 with my wife for six weeks, and more than six years later, we're still here. In this podcast, I'll be talking to people from all over Vietnam, working in tourism bars, results, hotels, nightlife, and more to share with you experiences that prove Vietnam is. In this episode, my guest has lived in Vietnam for 10 years now. He's worked at Paso Street Brewing Company for eight and a half, most of those as the sales director spreading amazing craft beer across Vietnam. He's also the co-host of the Beer Stories podcast, which is produced by myself and Seven Million Bikes podcast, and shares stories of craft beer, predominantly in Vietnam, but also around the world, highlighting the amazing beer that we have here in Vietnam. So thank you for joining me today. My guest is Misha Smith. That, uh, that introduction sounded more impressive than I, than I'm impressed with myself. So I, I appreci. What year did you first come to Vietnam? 2013 June. So it'll be 10 years in, in June of this year. So Tale is a bit about how Vietnam, Saigon specifically has changed in the last 10 years. I came here initially as a, as an English teacher. That's what I was doing in South Korea before I got here. Uh, but like you said, I've been working at Pastor Street for, uh, about eight and a half years working predominantly in f and b. That's obviously where I've noticed the most, uh, change. Like when I first got here, there were, uh, like a handful of Western style restaurant. Now there's amazing international restaurants from all over the world. Um, like all different countries, all different kinds of cuisine. Uh, winning your international awards and like being mentioned as best of, uh, like you couldn't get, you couldn't have a, the only cocktail bar when I first got here, it was called the Rumbar. It was the sidewalk outside some lady's apartment. An old lady who made like bathtub rum and served it in like repurposed old liquor bottles that were definitely not rum bottles. I mean some of them might have been, but uh, like that was a cocktail bar 10 years ago in Saigon. Now you've got these amazing bespoke cocktail bars all over Saigon, over Hanoi, uh, in Central as well. It's so that for me, that's the biggest change cuz you know, I'm right up against it is the f and b uh, development here and just how amazing it is and compared to how bare bones it was. Obviously there was amazing food in Saigon, Vietnamese food. But yeah, the, the level of international quality restaurants that there are now, it's, it's mind blowing to think back to, like you said, just 10 short years ago, what it was like then versus now. The food and beverage is just a great example of the development of Vietnam and it's developed in so many ways. So this podcast, we, we are want to encourage tourists to visit Vietnam. We're back open now. You're one of the people. That I think are the most enthusiastic about Saigon. You, you love it here. For you. Uh, why do you love Saigon? I obviously, I've been asked this question a lot because, like you said, my, my, my enthusiasm and my love for Saigon is very apparent and it's, it's very outward. Um, it's just, and it's so hard to like pinpoint what it is, but when you, when you've traveled a bit, you just, you get a certain feeling when you go to certain. And the first time I came here on vacation, I just had this giddy enthusiasm, this giddy feeling that I just couldn't, like, I had this goofy grin on my face the whole two weeks I think it was, and you just couldn't knock it off my face. I was just like, th this is me. This is me right here. I just loved it. And you know, it's the energy of the city. It's the, I was coming from South Korea where not all the locals were super friendly to foreign. Whereas here, you know, Saigon being a very tourist city, I got a genuine good feeling from Vietnamese people, um, about us being here and, and you know, they're very welcoming and they're very helpful and, and you know, even back then, like the, the, the nightlife was, you know, it's not what it is now. There was, there was still like a manic energy to it, like going down Bo. Boon was, was a, was trash. Like it was, it was a, it was a dirty, nasty neighborhood with, that's where all like the petty crime happens in Saigon. Um, but now it, it's super gentrified and it's, it's worse. Like it's nicer and it's worse. Yeah, true. So like an I would hate to over romanticize boon. Yes. But I mean, honestly at that, at, at that point, like at that time, that's where we spent most of our nights. You know, we started at one of the little plastic chairs, either rounds of beers or a bottle of Jameson's. Uh, I think we called it the grocery store. Like it was, I don't remember the exact address, but the, it was uh, a mother and grandmother who ran it. And they were friendly to us cuz we went there and spent a lot of money and we were polite. Um, and that's all it was up and down the street was those kind of places. But we had our favorite. It's the energy that this city has and gives me that, that makes me love it so much. And also like to speak up to the development. It's like the old Saigon and the new Saigon, like the kind of competing tension there. I love it. Mm-hmm. Like I just love watching it and yeah. To, to have been here for 10 years. And I think I have friends who have been here for 25 years, so like, you know, I'm a relative novice. But, uh, yeah, it's just, it's hard to put it into words, but also, so to, and to that point, every single friend or relative who's come here to visit me, I, I think a lot, I think all of them didn't understand why I loved it so much, and what it was about it. Within, within hours, they're like, oh, I get it. Yeah. Okay. Not, and not just, they get it. Why? I love it. But they loved it too. Yeah. Like everyone who's come here has had a great. You know, obviously partly cause I was there to, to guide them. So if you're a tourist coming to Vietnam, it would help to have someone here who knows what they're doing a little bit. Then also there's a fun of not knowing and just discovering for yourself. So, For tourists listening who thinking of coming here and then they're going, boy, Vien. What's that? So do you wanna explain a little bit about it, the pros and the cons? Cuz it, it, it's got, I've spent a lot of time on Boen when I first moved here as well. And it is where a lot of backpackers and, and young tourists are gonna stay. So what, what, what do you mean when you kinda laughed about it and mentioned it? So if you've never been here, obviously it's, you're not gonna know anything about Bovie or fam Nu Lao. So in the heart of district one, which is downtown Seig, There's a street called Bovie in an area called Family Lyle. Um, and it used to be really grimy and dirty and uh, and, and, but like energetic and lively. Now it's more like nightclub. And I know a lot of tourists do come down here and, and stay there. I wouldn't recommend it. It's not the best part of town and it's also not like the most fun part of town. It's, it's probably the cheapest and that's why probably a lot of people end up there. Um, But yeah, get, get, get outta fam new la I would, I would, I would advise tourists. It's, you know, like if you've been to Thailand, like Cal San Road mm-hmm. Like that's, that's kind of the, the comparison everyone makes. But it's, it's an imperfect comparison, but yeah. That's, that's, it's more similar. It's a frame of reference. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, we do a comedy show every Thursday night called the Tourist Trap Comedy Show. And partnership with Vie Hammer is awesome. And we are encouraging tourists to come along to that. And so we actually go around by Vhe every Thursday night and chat to people and hand out flyers. Um, okay. And it's, it's fun. Before it gets dark. There's a big difference. As soon as it gets dark, all the, all the volume goes up to 10. It gives a night. Yeah, and like before it gets dark, we walk around and we have awesome chats with people. We hand out flyers, meet people from all over the world. So that's interesting. I, it's been a while since I've driven down there with any purpose. Like, so during the day it's like people having lunch, having beers on the street still, or, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty quiet. I mean, not quiet, sorry. It's still people driving Bikes people everywhere. Right. But it's kinda nice people are out on, because the, the bars are open on the street, so people are, Casual evening be okay. The music isn't too loud, and all of that stuff. And, and Misha mentioned Family Loud, there's lots of bus stations that leave from there, or Busies depart from there. So it's kind of like a big tourist hub. Someone told me you can get a bed and a hostel for$5 a night. So it's definitely like if you're backpacking, it's a good place to be. Just as it gets later, it gets loader. Um, there is a lot of petty crime like Misha, me mentioned. I've known friends to have their bags stolen, phone stolen, so you still need to watch out. I was down there one time, uh, sitting on my motorbike, parked on the side waiting for uh, um, a delivery and, uh, this like nice looking foreign girl, long blond hair sundress. She was walking down boian with a handful of. That she'd obviously just gotten out of an atm, like just counting it casually. And I looked at her and like, Hey, you don't wanna be doing that around here? And she looked at me like I was a, like I was a jerk. I was like, sorry. Hey, if you don't want the advice, keep walking. There's a tip for tourists. Anyone listening, thinking to come in Vietnam, come to Vietnam. Don't walk about with your phone in your hand, like away from your body. If you're gonna have your phone in your hand, keep it close to your body or keep away from the street. Don't count cash. Around Boyen, I mean, is probably one of the safest countries in the world. Most places you're fine to count your cash. Yeah. Boy vie though. Just you're, you're making yourself putting, putting a target on your back if you do that. It's, it's, so yeah, to your point, it's still the most concentrated area where petty crime happens. Mm-hmm. And a lot of people that I've spoken to associate Saigon with petty crime, which is just not true. Like you said, it's one of the safest places. Except for like certain areas. Yeah. Where you just have to be careful. Yeah. And it's, if, if you are thinking of coming here and you're worried about the crime, it's very opportunistic. It's if you're gonna have your phone in your hand or your bag, someone may just drive by and snatch it, but that's just, it doesn't, it's not too bad. So please still come and. I mentioned do a comedy show every Thursday. So go to the Vietnam is awesome website. You can find it. They're the tourist trap comedy show and, and book your tickets for that. So what recommendations would you give to tourists to do in Saigon? The one I did wanna mention, what's called the Quang Mop, it's still dirt cheap after all these years. It's best to go with a big group of people. Um, the menu's only in Vietnamese, so if you're a tourist coming here, you might need a, a Vietnamese guidebook and look in the food section to see what you. But yeah, just order as many dishes as you think you can eat. Uh, it's right on the river. It's nice. It's the, the family who owns it. Like they're all there every night. The husband and the wife and all their kids. I've kind of like watched their kids grow up from afar. You know, they were tiny in height when we first started going, and now they're, now they're all pretty big. So, yeah, that. Anytime a friend comes to visit, that's, I always make sure we take them to, to quang up for at least one dinner. Uh, I think you said in the, in the, uh, in the open something about like the real Saigon or the real Vietnam that's as real as you can get. Like short of going out into the countryside and like, you know, drinking sugar cane juice with old ladies by the, by the canal or something like by the river, I guess. Within city limits. That's as real of a Saigon as you're gonna get. And just up and down that, uh, street psa, there's a ton of other places like it. Uh, my friend Sean, when he first moved here, he was living in that area, so him and his buddies like tried all the places and that was the winner. That was the one that like they stuck with and then obviously introduced me to it. And now I try to spread the word as much as possible cuz the, the old man who runs it is an awesome dude. Big smile on his face every year. Now when I go for, for my birthday, and then anytime in between. Um, and yeah, it's, the food is phenomenal. Like it, the quality of the food for what the actual place looks like. You, you wouldn't believe it if you found it anywhere else. But you know, in Saigon it kind of makes sense. And do be ready to be aware of what you're ordering because this just happened to me like two days ago and I've been here seven. Restaurant near me ordered what I, the English translation on the menu said Tie leg of chicken. And I ordered it and it came out and it was chicken feet, which I don't eat. This is also why the, the translate apps are, you know, just unbelievable technology but not perfect because, yeah. So I looked up the translate app and Chenga, which I knew meant chicken feet, uh, versus Canga, which is chicken legs, chicken wings. Chicken. If you type in chicken leg, it comes up changa as well. So changa also means chicken leg and chicken feet. So Gora beer, which is obviously your other passion other than Saigon. Yes. Give us a quick overview of how that changed, when that changed and, and what Kraft beer is now like in Saigon. So I've been living here for about a year and a half. Uh, when I first saw an ad on Facebook for Pastor Street Brew. And I remember it was a Friday because Fridays were the only day I had off. And the advertisement for was for the opening the following Friday. And I was angry that I had to wait a week because yeah, like my last job in Toronto before moving to Asia, was bartending at a craft beer bar. Loved craft beer. Korea was just starting to get some craft beers, like just as I was leaving. There's a big scene there now. Um, but yeah, coming here that was like the missing piece of the puzzle was good. Um, so yeah, the, the following Friday, it was January 2nd, uh, 2015. And I remember because I, I and my friends liked to drink on January 1st instead of like, like, we'll wake up hungover on after New Year's. I'm like, let's get some day drinking in. Like, we all take the day off work and it's January 1st, right? Um, so I had a massive hangover on the second when I went. So I got there a little bit later than I was planning. And, uh, Bethany, one of the co-founders who was behind the bar at the time, she said I was the third person through the door. And that made me really angry that I wasn't, that I wasn't the very first customer. But then, yeah, three weeks later I was, uh, volunteering behind the bar for free beers. Uh, cuz they were short-staffed and, and I was offering to work a real shift for free beer. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause I was there every Friday. It was my only day off. I was. Pretty much all day on Fridays, depending on my friends and how much money they had, if they could afford to stay. Cuz again, at the time it was, it was, uh, quite expensive compared to the, the other beer options. Um, and yeah, at the time, uh, you know, like Platinum was a thing, fuzzy logic. Like there were a couple other craft beer companies already in Operation Saigon Cider, uh, always gets lost in the, in the story of craft beer in Vietnam cuz it's a cider, but also because it's, uh, it's a little more. So they had four beers available and one was Jasmine ipa. That's the first beer I had. That's the last beer I had. I obviously tried them all, but like, that's the one that really stuck out. Just having an IPA in Vietnam was amazing. And also it was a, it was an amazingly done ipa. So Alex, uh, one of our other co-founders, he was the brewmaster at, uh, one of the most well respected breweries in one of the most competitive beer markets in the States in Boulder, Colorado. Uh, so having him come over, it really. Just it, it gave us a legitimacy that not a lot of craft breweries are gonna have in Vietnam. And of course now there are Western Brewmasters who have very impressive resumes. But Alex was kinda the first one to, to come from the states and make like really authentic craft beers with just high quality uncompromising. And yeah, it was, it was a revelation for. Um, and then obviously I had passion about the beer and the brand, so I started working there. And then, uh, yeah, more and more I was, I was, I was giving up teaching shifts. I mean, once they started paying me, obviously I wasn't, I wasn't gonna turn down a paying job for a non-paying one, but once they started paying me in money instead of beer, I started like picking up a couple more shifts during the night, during the week, uh, teaching a little bit. And then the sales job came up, the opportunity came up. Uh, our third co-founder, the one, the one I haven't mentioned yet, John, he offered me the job and, uh, and I, I jumped at him. You know, you're gonna pay me to drink beer? Yes, yes. Um, and yeah, that's, I mean, from that now there are, I think the last count there were like 70 craft breweries operating in Vietnam, uh, from very small businesses to very, very large. Um, yeah, it's amazing that we're craft Vietnamese craft beers being exported to other countries. Um, it's, it, it's, we have, not we, pastor Street, but we, Vietnam have a reputation in Southeast Asia as being one of, if not the best countries for quality and variety of craft beers. Um, and yeah, I'm just really pa I'm just really proud to be, uh, part of the, part of that whole, uh, Revolution. Not a movement. A movement ends. It's a revolution. Keeps, keeps going round and round. It's also really exciting, like you mentioned with Vietnam there, because let's be honest, Vietnam does have a reputation for maybe poorer quality or, uh, low grade exports. It's not got the highest reputation internationally. Yeah, I mean, I think as, as much as that, whether or not that's true and as much as, as, as it is true in certain circles, I think that's just people who have never been here and don't know anything about it, you know, like. Like, uh, Fuqua Pepper is widely regarded as the best pepper in the world. You know, you've got, uh, Maru Chocolate, which was an inspiration for us just as a business model. They're making some of the best chocolate in the world right here in Vietnam. Mm-hmm. Look, we're Vietnam's famous for having amazing fish slots like so, and coffee as well. Like, you know, coffee's very high quality coffee all over. So would I expect my friend sitting on his couch in Toronto to. About those locally made products? No, of course not. I didn't know anything about them before I came. Um, but once people get here and realize, wow, this is a lot going on here. Mm-hmm. And even like the, I mentioned it a couple times at the top, but the quality and quantity of world-class international style restaurants here. I don't think the world really knows about it yet, but they're gonna find out. Mm. Well we got Michelin coming this year. There you go. Yeah, yeah, there you go. And I've talked about this before, uh, at quite length, so we won't go into it too much, but Vietnam, I think worldwide is now, um, the perception is changing. It's coming into its own. And you can see that through, um, designers like fashion designers. Who just won an Oscar. I've just had an author contact me from Hawaii, who's Vietnamese, who's just published a book and wants to be on podcast. You've got the actor that was in the Star Wars. I, I'm, I know Sayng. Wyn, as you mentioned, coffee. She's exporting Vietnamese coffee beans to New York and roasting them in New York and like produc promoting. Vietnamese coffee beans as a premium coffee bean. I see it more because of like what I do with the podcast and who I talk to people. But I think when other people I talk to and you and you mentioned all those things there, when you start to connect all the dots, Vietnam is becoming more of a premium brand. Yep. So, but that's an amazing thing that's changing in the last 10 years from, you would see Vietnam as like maybe pure quality. And now it's becoming like, no, Vietnam is producing some amazing things. Yeah. Like I don't talk to a lot of people back home about Vietnam unless they ask me or unless they're coming. So I don't really know what the, the global perception is. You know, I'm, I'm inside of it. I know, I know what we think. Um, but yeah, the, the fact that, you know, 12 years ago there were no big Vietnamese restaurants in Toronto where I'm, where I lived. And then going back after my first time coming here, it was like there was foot shops on almost every corner and bon me places. And obviously they were charging outrageous price compared to here and way nowhere near as good as here. But yeah. Well, yeah. The one my mom took me to, uh, behind her apartment, uh, I realized when we walked in that it was, it was a Korean family running in this Vietnamese restaurants and I was like, I'm glad you like it, mama. Come to Vietnam sometime and we'll get you a real bullet for it. I heard my sister message me from Melbourne. Tell me she went to an authentic Vietnamese restaurant. And she, and it was run by a family from Saigon and she sent me the menu and it had pad Thai on the menu, red curry, green curry, Chinese noodles. I was looking at the menu and I was like, Lindsay, none of this is Vietnamese, but No, but they said they're from Saigon. I was like, well, I, none of this is Saigon food. Right. Well, to that point, the, the, I'm using air quotes, the Vietnamese restaurant that my mom told me to. It was a Vietnamese, Thai, Korean, like they had three menus. Yeah. It wasn't like a fusion of any of those things. It was just, Different menus from three different countries run by a a Korean family. Obviously everyone knows the food in Vietnam is amazing. We've talked about this I think on the previous podcast. Come here for the food that you all have seen on Instagram and all the Vietnamese food that you want to try. Ban me and fur and all of that. And, but if you want to come here and try some restaurants that are probably gonna make it in the next Michelin gate and some high class quality food that still won't break the bank and come here to to Vietnam. And then just to wrap. Obviously craft beer has just exploded here. I've, I've been a fan of craft beer pretty much most of my adult life. I have similar experience to you. I came here on a, a vacation, as I mentioned, at the top of the podcast. Paso Street was the first place I went to. One of the coolest things ever was, uh, after I came here on vacation, then I moved here, stayed here, became friends with Misha Smith. I found a picture that I took when I first went to Paso Street for the very first time, and in the background serving beer behind the bar was Misha Smith, which, there you go. That still gives me goosebumps. I think that's just one of the coolest things ever. I mean, I don't even think we interacted that time. Here we are now sitting doing a podcast about craft beer. And I remember I've got pictures of the menus, still had Jasmine ipa, still had passion fruit. And one thing I did wanna mention on that was one of the things about craft beer in Vietnam, and not all of them, but most of them, past street, is definitely known for this, is using local ingredients. So when we mention Jasmine Passionfruit, dragonfruit, these are all local ingredients that you guys have, have made an effort to use in ubi. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. That was John's, uh, that was John's. Mission from the beginning. And his whole idea was making classic craft beer styles with fresh local Vietnamese ingredients. So, I mean, we need to import the hops, the multi east, but we want to have one flavor of Vietnam in all of our beers and like really showcase what Vietnam's all about. And that's, that's always been our. Mission statement, I guess. Well, I mean, my favorite beer is their PLO ipa. Mine too. Yeah, plo, you can't, I mean, I'd never heard of Pello too. Right, right, right. Well, that's it. Like, you know, grapefruit IPA is a style that you can get in Australia and America, but here, you know, we have PLOS instead of grapefruit, so we just. And they're delicious. And I'm still waiting on Mango Lago coming back one day. That wasn't my, it's, we just had a meeting yesterday. It's on the, it's on the schedule. Nice, nice. So just quickly before we wrap it up, tell people if the visiting tag gone, what, obviously past those street where, what locations, where should they go? What if they're in, they're probably gonna be in D one and what other craft beer bus should they check out? Cuz I know there's a new one that's just opened I want to check out. Yeah. Specifically if you're coming and you wanna go to Pastor Street Burn Company. I mean, just Google it. We have five locations in Saigon. Uh, one in Hanoi. And always looking for more. Uh, but yeah, just Google it and whichever one's closest. They're all fun locations and they have all got a bit of a different vibe. Uh, so yeah, I'm not gonna name all the addresses, but yeah, just, yeah, put it in Google and uh, find the one closest to you. Um, for other craft beer bars, we mentioned Malt on Mackay T Boy, they've got a great craft. Beer selection. Be a Craft is probably the best place to go to try a range of craft beers. They've got some of their own, and then at least one beer from almost every brewer. In the country. I mentioned there's almost 70 now, so obviously they don't have every single brewery represented. Um, but they do a pretty good job. They've got 50 taps, I think they've 50 taps at their D three location. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's another one, BIA Craft. They have, uh, locations all over the, all over the city. So just Google that if you're coming. Um, and then, yeah, one that I, that I, I do like to mention, uh, cause it doesn't get enough love is a Turtle Lake Brewing Company. They're up in Hanoi and they don't have much distribution, so they're not really well known Insig. But for me, they're making some of the best craft beers in the country. Uh, but you can only get them at their tap room. So again, Google that, find it if you're in. Yeah. And then, uh, yeah, I was just there yesterday. I went to Steers Man's new tap room. Uh, it's in kinda the heart of D one as well, uh, in Decal, which is the ward again, you can Google the exact address. Um, but yeah, they just opened up and, uh, it's an awesome location. It's a cool venue. Uh, they make some nice beers as. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's awesome to see, uh, like smaller local breweries getting some shine. So yeah, the, the owner of, uh, of Steersman, we actually had on, uh, on our other podcasts, which I don't think we talked about yet, uh, beer stories. So I mentioned Alex, one of our co-founders. Um, him and I have been doing this podcast, beer stories that you produce. Um, and yeah, we interview people about, Some brewers, some owners. Uh, one of our funnest episodes was, was, was with, uh, a customer, a regular customer at our tap room. Um, but yeah, check that out on Google, Spotify, uh, apple, apple Pods, wherever you find your podcast. Um, yeah, so we've, we've wrapped season one and we're just about to start recording season two. And, uh, really looking forward to getting back into the studio with you. Well, we're gonna finish up with the final questions that I ask everyone. Okay. At the end of every. Michelle, what is a good 24 hour itinerary in ho Chi Min? That's a great question. Um, so I would say to, if you wanna experience it the way that, uh, God intended, uh, start with a bowl of faba for breakfast. Um, and then I haven't been to the reunification palace, but I've heard from all of my friends who have been that it's awesome. So maybe bang that out after breakfast and then for lunch. I would say you gotta find a little, uh, calm stand or bon me, depending if you want, if you prefer rice or bread. Um, and then after that I would say go to, uh, a craft beer bar and, uh, enjoy some of the local craft beers in Vietnam. Um, and then for dinner, I think we, we went over earlier in the. Is the best Vietnamese barbecue you're gonna get in, uh, in Saigon. So basically just eat and drink all day in Saigon. Hey bud. That's what I do. And so obviously we are talking about it from our point of view, but what is life like for locals in Saigon? Yeah. Um, It's kinda hard for me to answer that question cause there's, there's obviously, you know, I have my Vietnamese colleagues, which are quite a few. Uh, so, you know, I work in an office. So for them, they go to the office every day. Uh, they either order food from our place or they bring in some homemade, uh, Vietnamese food that they've got from home. There's such a wide gap in, uh, in income here. So when you say life for a local, such a broad spectrum. It's hard to release. And also, obviously I'm not a local, so I, it's hard for me to put myself in their shoes cuz I wouldn't even know which shoes we're talking about. Yeah, I, I understand what you're saying as well. I was thinking it's, uh, you could just definitely, as we've already talked about in this episode, no matter your income or your, or what you do here is just fast paced, energetic, always go, go, go. You're awake at six. Uh, drinking coffee at 10:00 PM and just life never stops here, it seems. Yeah, a hundred percent. So, I remember, uh, one time my friend Willis came to visit from Toronto and he's a, he's a small business owner. And, uh, at the time, this is before grabs, so it was just the Salem drivers on their street corners waiting for a, a fair as it were, little bon me stand little, uh, noodle noodle carts that get pushed. And after a few days it's just, you know, getting into the routine. Willis turns to me, he is like, man, everybody here works for themselves. And I'm like, yeah, I never really thought about it, but yeah, that's true. And he is like, nice is awesome. Yes, Vietnam is awesome. That is true. No, I like that one. Um, and then why is Saigon a good place to. Um, I mean, I hope we've covered it like, like we said before, like just the energy of the city. Uh, you mentioned, you know, the fast pace, it's go, go, go all the time. Uh, and you know, some people wouldn't like that kinda lifestyle, but for me it's, it's, it's I toxic and I, I just love feeding off the energy of the city, uh, you know, into work in the morning. Lunch, wherever, and then, you know, just get out and see a, see the world going by. I remember the, the first time I came on vacation driving, I was on, I wasn't driving on the back of, of a Salem driver's motorbike. And we were going around the loop around, uh, Ben 10 market the roundabout there. And every time I, after I moved here, every time I drove around that roundabout, I remember that first time I was just like, can't believe I live here. This is amazing. I love it. And last question, uh, travelers, tourists, they've come to Saigon, where should they go next? Yeah, so I mean, I've got a few. It kind of depends on, on your own, uh, speed. So like, I, I really love going to Niang, uh, for a beach city. Um, the old town in Hoyne, it's one of my favorite places in Vietnam. Um, but if you really wanna go some. Small and remote and quiet and awesome. Uh, there's a place called Queen Y, which is also in central Vietnam like we got there, uh, the first time we took a train from Denang cause that's where we're coming from. Uh, you can fly from, from Saigon. It's just this awesome little beach sale and I'm so be and content and chilled out. Every time I go there, I need to go there. It's one place. Have not one place. One. One of the places have not been. Oh, it's amazing. It's like you just, you get there, you turn your phone. And just the, the stress of life just comes off of you. Well, Misha, this has been awesome. Thank you very much. Uh, if you are listening from anywhere in the world, you can find all the links to what we've talked about in the show notes. So if you wanna go check out any of the tap rooms, VNA is awesome. We just published an article about the best craft beer balls. In Saigon and that actually covers a lot of the places we've talked about. So thank you very much for listening. I hope you guys, uh, enjoyed this and that you're gonna come to Saigon and have a great time. And does every chance, if you're in a craft beer bar, you're gonna bump into Misha Smith somewhere. So look out for Misha and uh, you might even see me as well. So thanks very much. Cheers. Thanks for having me on. If you are enjoying this podcast and you know what to do, it's such a cliche, but go hit the subscribe or the follow, or whatever it is you need to do from whatever app you're listening to so you can get notifications for future episodes and keep listening. Every, every episode we're gonna be interviewing someone from somewhere different in Vietnam and talking about life there. So we hope you're enjoying it as much as. And then if you wanna book a tool to go out and explore Vietnam, then make sure you go to the Vietnam is Awesome website, which is just Vietnam is awesome. Dot com. You'll find a whole bunch of tools and trips there that you can book, and so you can go out and explore and also including my comedy show. So I am also a comedian if you didn't know that. And we do a comedy show here in Saigon every Thursday called the Tourist Trap Comedy Show. We talk about what it's like to live in Vietnam and life in Vietnam. You the funny side of it. So if you are Saigon on a Thursday night, go on. The Vietnam is awesome website and you can book your tickets for that show. So a massive thank you to the Vietnam is awesome team for putting this podcast together and to Lewis Wright who composed and performed the music for this podcast.