Back Catalog Rewind : Discover Vietnam - Mischa Smith - Pasteur Street Brewing Company Sales Director

 Mischa Smith, from Canada, is a regular sight around Saigon in the craft beer scene as the Sales Director for Pasteur Street Brewing Company. 

Mischa started in the craft beer industry in Toronto, Ontario before he packed up and moved to South Korea to teach English for a year that turned into four years and five months. 

After a visit to Saigon he fell in love with the city, left Korea and has now been here for 6 years, seeing massive changes in Saigon in a relatively short time.

Mischa shares how he went from drinking beers to pouring them for free to selling Pasteur Beer nationally and internationally and his tips for eating, drinking and living in Saigon. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:28

Thanks for listening to Discover Vietnam. I really, really appreciate it that you've chosen to listen to this podcast. We started in two thousand and nineteen. I did it just as a hobby for some fun, and now six years later, we're still going strong with over three hundred and fifty episodes. We're in the top five percent of podcasts worldwide and the longest running English language podcast in Vietnam. So thank you again so much for tuning in to this episode. Because we have so many amazing episodes in the back catalogue that are just sitting there and they only get a couple of listens a week, which is still amazing. But I want to bring them to you so we don't lose any of those amazing conversations to time. So every week starting this week, we're gonna bring you a podcast episode. So we're gonna bring you an old episode from the back catalogue, completely unchanged for you to enjoy. So it's gonna be quite fun because the further back you go, the quality of the audio will be worse and worse. But I hope you enjoy it, and you'll even hear some old episodes with biscuits snoring in the background as well, which I know some of our fans love as well. So enjoy this podcast. Don't forget, follow, subscribe, share the episode as well. And you can still join our Patreon. You can become a bopsawdale. So go to patreon.com forward slash a Vietnam podcast and join Discover Vietnam and become a bopsawdale. Enjoy the episode. Cheers. So with me today on another episode of 7 Million Bikes, a Saigon podcast, is Misha Smith, the sales director from Pasto Street Brewing Company. How are you doing today? Good, Neil, how are you? Pretty good, not too bad. And so uh how's things going at Pastou?

SPEAKER_02: 2:18

Going well. Um yeah, we're just about to open a location in Hawaiian that we're really excited about, and uh for me, just getting the beer out to as many people as I can across the country.

SPEAKER_00: 2:28

Would you say that you have a dream job?

SPEAKER_02: 2:31

Uh yeah, without without sounding too trite or cliche about it, uh 100%. Um yeah, I didn't I didn't realize that I was training my whole life for this specific job. Uh, but that's how it turned out. I I can drink a lot and I can talk to people and uh I can convince people that our beer well I don't have to do much convincing the beer, the beer kind of speaks for itself.

SPEAKER_00: 2:50

It is good beer. So we'll get into the beer in a m in a minute. So 7 Million Bikes is all about people who live here, uh both expats and locals. Find out a bit about the background and then um also find out like what it's like to live in Saigon, because we've talked about it on previous episodes. Saigon's just a crazy place to live, right? Absolutely. And it's got uh it's definitely unique and it's challenging and it can be confronting, but ultimately I found after three years it is a good place to be. So let's go backwards though. So um you're from Canada. Yes. Whereabouts in Canada? Uh Sarnia, Ontario. And would you agree that Canadians are the politest people on the planet?

SPEAKER_02: 3:28

Uh except for me. I've I've been told uh people who don't know where I'm from, uh, they sometimes describe me to my friends as oh, he's he's the most polite American I've ever met. Um but then people who know me also he's the rudest Canadian I've ever met, which I feel like is about is about right. That's about on par. It's an accurate description.

SPEAKER_00: 3:51

And so uh where you're in the beer industry in Canada.

SPEAKER_02: 3:55

Uh my last job in Toronto uh before I moved to Asia was uh bartending at a little brew pub called Mill Street Brewery. Uh it's not little anymore. Uh but uh yeah, I was there the first summer they were open, and that's where I really uh got a taste for craft beer.

SPEAKER_00: 4:08

I like the pun. I got a taste for craft beer. It was unintentional. I hate puns. Um I I actually love puns. I love dad jokes as well.

SPEAKER_02: 4:18

Yeah, that's the Scottish and Irish thing, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 4:21

I'm like one of those people that likes the jokes and Christmas crackers. Well um we can move on quickly on that at least. Um what were you doing at the craft brewery in Canada?

SPEAKER_02: 4:34

I was I was working uh at the at the pub.

SPEAKER_00: 4:36

I was uh serving in bartending. And so what's the craft beer like scene like in Canada? Obviously it's massive in America, the the West Coast it's huge. Uh it's new here in Saigon in Canada, how developed is it?

SPEAKER_02: 4:49

So this is about ten years ago that I was working there, and uh like I said, it was the first summer that that brewery was open, and um it was still pretty new uh at the time. Not not in terms of the length, because it craft beer had been around for a while, but it wasn't hugely popular until until around that time. It was really just starting to take off uh then, at least in where I was from in in uh Ontario. Um but yeah, now it's obviously it's huge. Ten years later it's the same as everywhere, you know, the craft beer takes off everywhere it goes. That's true, right?

SPEAKER_00: 5:23

It's like uh just can't once it starts, it can't stop. But there's kind of like a limit, right? Like it it kind of has a bit of a glass ceiling, doesn't it? It's never gonna be like a hundred percent craft beer, right?

SPEAKER_02: 5:33

Uh well yeah, of course not. Unfortunately. I mean, having having said that, uh we're nowhere near the limit, either in Saigon or anywhere else. I mean you know, Vietnam is is a beer drinking country, and we've got just a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the of the market. Not just pasture, but craft beer in general. It's it's such a small piece of the pie. There's so much room to grow still.

SPEAKER_00: 5:59

But in America it's kind of topped out almost every. I think I remember reading about that. Like the it grew so fast and then it's kind of now plateaued a bit.

SPEAKER_02: 6:06

Sure, you'd have to talk to an American about that.

SPEAKER_00: 6:09

I'm not I'm not really keyed into the American craft beer scene. Because I was uh quite into the so I lived in New Zealand before here and was really into the craft beer scene in Wellington, like it was unbelievable. Lived in downtown, it was I think like six, seven, eight, maybe ten, I can't remember, like craft beer breweries within walking distance of my apartment in downtown Wellington. And so in Wellington my wife and I we invested in a craft brewery in New Zealand called Renaissance or Renaissance, depending on your pronunciation. My wife and I would disagree on that. And uh we put in a couple of thousand New Zealand dollars, partly because if you put in at that level, you got a free crate of beer every year.

unknown: 6:54

Right?

SPEAKER_00: 6:55

Beauty sweet, that's long-term investment. Yeah, and uh you know we wanted to be part of it, we wanted to see it grow, they needed new equipment, things like that. Anyway, fast forward. We then end up leaving New Zealand to come to Asia for just for a year, but we end up being here for three years. So every year we've been giving away our free crate of craft beer to our friends, you know, because we get it anyway, but like, well, you guys can have it. And then last year, we started to get some emails that didn't look too good, and eventually it went out of business. And uh, that's the risk of a free beer for life. Yeah, my company got uh went into insolvency, got liquidated, all the investors lost the money. We got one free crate of beer out of that because we'd been given the other crate away. Sure. Um eventually the company was bought up, reopened under the same brand with the same staff in the same premises, all the investors lost their money. So we got burned badly on that. So I don't think we'll be investing anytime soon.

SPEAKER_02: 7:54

And uh shame because I uh I've got a notch.

SPEAKER_00: 8:00

So yeah, I got my fingers burned a little bit by that. But yeah, for sure. Like here, obviously that the it's a tiny piece of the market, but the reason I brought that up is because I remember going to the investors' meeting and they were talking about how in America it kind of plateaued, but the room for growth in New Zealand was still huge. That's why we invest here. Um but they were saying it probably will get to a point where you know it will plateau in each country because the big guns are so big, and also people have a taste for like the traditional beers, right? But obviously here in Vietnam there's massive, massive room for growth, right? Absolutely, yeah. And there's still more players coming into this. Yeah, for sure. You guys are doing pretty well, right? And so things were going all right in Canada. Then what made you leave Canada? How did you end up in Saigon?

SPEAKER_02: 9:15

Um, well, I I I got fired from the the brewery that I was working at. Um and I'd been out of school for about a year, um, and I just didn't really want to keep going through the the F and B C and I worked at a bunch of restaurants while I was going through school. Um yeah, and I'd thought about teaching overseas for a long time, and the timing was never right, and then all of a sudden it just was. Uh, and I moved to Korea, South Korea, uh, for what I thought was gonna be a year. I ended up staying for four and a half years. Um and then I came to Saigon on vacation a couple times while I was living over there to visit some friends, and I just fell in love with Saigon, Vietnam, the city. Like I I I knew I knew once I got here that this is where I belonged, so went back, finished my contract in Korea, and um yeah, I moved here. And that's how I got to Saigon. And so what was it like living in Korea then? I visited Korea, but uh I excuse me. Um I lived in two different cities, and there were smaller they weren't like the countryside, but they were small cities. And uh it was an experience. I I enjoyed it. I met some of my best friends in the world there. Um I I prefer it here.

SPEAKER_00: 10:26

What why do you prefer it here then?

SPEAKER_02: 10:28

I just I don't want to say anything bad about Korea. I was I lived there for a long time. Uh but I just Saigon there's so much more energy, so much more excitement. Like you s the the feeling is palpable when you're here. Like it's you know, when I went back after my after my two visits to Korea and my friends were like, oh how's Vietnam? And I was just gushing about it. I'm like, oh what's so good about it? And I was like, you know, like the food, the nightlife, the the people, everything, but like just the energy. I just kept saying the energy. And I couldn't really describe it, but uh all of those friends who have come to visit me here now, they as soon as they get here, they're like, oh, okay, I get it. Yeah, like you know, it's it's something that you can't quite put your finger on. But the first time I was here for two weeks, I just had this goofy grin on my face the whole time. I was just so happy. And I was like, what? I don't know, that's great.

SPEAKER_00: 11:12

I just love it here. It's definitely an energetic city, and I think that can be both negative and positive, right? Sure. And so when you come, I think in the beginning I was the same. I came for a visit before we came to live here and just loved it. You know, I don't again you can't really describe it. It's just it's Vietnam. Yeah, it's just amazing. Yeah, I think everybody's the same that comes here, right?

SPEAKER_02: 11:31

Yeah. Well, uh you are or you aren't, like, it depends on your mileage, right? Like, definitely some people I I live with some people in Korea who had been here and they're like, oh, you liked Saigon? I hated it. And I can understand why someone wouldn't enjoy the city, but those people are very different from me, personality-wise. Like, I it's just it suits me to a T. Like, and you know, when you've traveled, like when you've traveled a bit, you just have a certain feeling about certain places. And you and when you get to a place that that suits your personality, you know. Like, you just know automatically, like, yeah, this is me, right here. I love it.

SPEAKER_00: 12:04

And so, how long after your visit that you you went back to Korea and you're like, right, I'm moving to the second Korea?

SPEAKER_02: 12:09

Uh well, I I I came back for a second visit just to make sure. Uh, because we always joked when I was living in South Korea, we always used to joke that uh any trip out of Korea was the best trip of your life because you're getting out of Korea for a bit. How was Moscow? Oh, it was great. It was uh really cold and fantastic. Um so yeah, no, I came back a second time just to make sure that I still felt the same way and that it wasn't just uh uh you know like a whatever, like a fleeting room. Like a summer fling room, yeah. Um and yeah, I felt the same way the second time. Uh and then I sort of went back, finished my contract, uh, went home for a couple months, uh, back to Canada, and then yeah, moved uh moved here for good. Been here for almost six years now.

SPEAKER_00: 12:56

Wow, six years. So you must have seen so much change in the city.

SPEAKER_02: 13:01

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean when you when you're here, you don't notice it so much, you know. If you like if you're here and you leave and then you come back six years later, I'm sure it would be like, oh my god, so much has changed. And to a certain extent, I would say the same thing. Yeah, a lot's changed. Um but yeah, when you're here every day, it's just it's not it's not as noticeable because it's so gradual.

SPEAKER_00: 13:20

Um, but of course, yeah, so much has changed in six years. Especially in the food and beverage industry. I feel eaten in three years I've been here. Yeah, so much is here now.

SPEAKER_02: 13:29

Yeah, no, I was just talking to a couple of uh friends last night, bar and restaurant owners, and uh yeah, we're just talking about I mean, we know we see it. I don't think the the rest of the world has caught on yet that Saigon has become such a great foody city and beer city, and but uh you know hopefully eventually people will. It's I mean it's still a huge tourist destination, but I don't think people realize how how great the Saigon food scene has gotten yet if you don't live in Saigon. So it'll be exciting to to see more and more people coming and enjoying uh just what an amazing city it is and what how great the the food scene has become, like you said.

SPEAKER_00: 14:04

I've been really bad in the last kind of year or so because just eating more and more Western food and but the food in Vietnam is amazing like Vietnamese food is so famous and so good, but I find myself more and more eating Mexican food all the time. I had someone say to me recently, Oh, there's no good Mexican food in Saigon, and my like jaw hit the floor. I was like, wait, what? Are you kidding me? I was like, There's so much good Mexican food. And I won't say the name of the place, but she'd only been to one Mexican place and didn't know about the rest, and I like listed them all. She's now been to nearly all of them. District Federal's her favorite, which I agree is the best, probably. Food and the mugs there are amazing. But yeah, and so I find myself more and more just eating non-Vietnamese food, and sometimes I have to remind myself and my wife were like, we've got to eat some Vietnamese food.

SPEAKER_02: 14:49

I'm I'm the exact same way. When I first moved here, I was just all street food all the time, like so delicious. And it I mean, obviously it's still the spoon's still just as good as it was back then. Uh but yeah, we're just so spoiled for choices now. Like, what do you feel like? Oh, Italian, Mexican, Japanese, you know, whatever you want, you can get a tie.

SPEAKER_00: 15:06

I was laughing this morning because uh in in the first episode we talked to JK Hobson and his one of his favourite foods was uh bar call. And I'll ask you about your favourite foods at the end. But um so this morning I actually was out for breakfast and uh I had barcot because we talked about it, I was like, oh yeah, yeah, I haven't had that in ages. And as I was eating it near the end, I was like, just had beef stew for breakfast. And totally normal, right? I think this is you know when you've been in Asia for so long, like this is a completely normal occurrence. Yeah. And I thought about my younger self or my friends, and you're like, oh, do you want to have beef stew for breakfast?

SPEAKER_02: 15:41

So one of my favorite stories about uh just adjusting to food in Asia, like you said, beef stew for breakfast, uh the the school that I worked at in Korea, we had uh we had school lunches every day. Made lunch for the kids, the teachers got the same lunch, and it was different every day, but uh we always got a big bowl of rice, and we always got the little squares of seaweed on the side. And about a year and a half into my school there, um we were sitting, about five of us around the table, all uh Canadian, Irish, uh, US teachers, and we were debating uh which was the best of the different brands of seaweed that we got, and it was just a real like um if you'd told me two years ago that I'd be sitting here on this little plastic chair debating the merits of different kinds of square seaweed, I was like, what? What are you talking about? I wouldn't have believed you. So, yeah, that's it's like when you know I've been living here for a whole lot of people. Yeah, yeah, this is pre-operation.

SPEAKER_00: 16:43

Like and we talked about as well when I spoke to JK as well, like not all Vietnamese food is equal, right? So there's like everyone knows pha. But there's good pha and bad pha, right? And when you get here longer, you're like, oh yeah, I won't go to that place because it's not good enough. You get your spots, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:57

No, absolutely, yeah. It's like yeah, Korean people ask me, like, do you like kimchi? Like, I like good kimchi. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad kimchi around. Right. Um, yeah, no, same way here, obviously, like you know, you can get ban mi anywhere, but like the the perfect ban mi is as good as anything you'll ever eat in your life.

SPEAKER_00: 17:15

Yeah, it's so true. Yeah, I've kind of gone off Ban Mi a bit because it's just there is a lot of bad ban me.

SPEAKER_02: 17:20

Yeah, no, I don't I don't eat it very much anymore. But yeah, when I first got here, my friend Sean, who I was coming to visit, there's a little ban mi shop around the corner from the house where he lived, and that's still the best ban me sandwich I've ever had in my life. It's just nice roasted pork, the the baguette nice and fluffy, and yeah, it's whenever I'm in the neighborhood, I said I go by and get a ban me from there.

SPEAKER_00: 17:40

I was the same when when I first got here every day without fail, ban me. Every day. And not so much anymore. So what would be your ideal ban me? What's the ingredients? You said the fluffy bread?

SPEAKER_02: 17:49

Yeah, just the the the the hay, like the roasted pork, uh cucumber, just a little bit of cilantro, the some onions and the soy sauce and a little bit of spicy sauce, and off to the races. And you missed the key ingredient pickled veg. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:06

No? Not a pickled veg. For me, uh the best ban me has everything that you describe there, but pickled veg as well. Okay. And then the worst one is when they just throw an egg in it.

unknown: 18:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:17

This is egg and bread. Well, I mean, I've I've had ban meopla for breakfast before, and it was great from the right ban me purveyor. Um, but yeah, if it's if you're not ordering ban meopla and they just throw an egg on top for no reason, it's like, well, that's not what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 18:32

Think this is an idea for a new side podcast where we just talk about ban me? The the Bon Mi trial, well, we didn't scum up the name. The Nah, never mind. If I got here six years ago, I can I can't imagine how different it would have been in terms of even buildings, right? Like the there's construction is in is going up so fast. Food and beverage, there wasn't many restaurants, definitely no beer, right? No good beer.

SPEAKER_02: 18:55

No good beer at the time, no. I remember the first time I saw Heineken on draft, I was excited. That's how bad the beer scene was.

SPEAKER_00: 19:02

Uh that's a low.

SPEAKER_02: 19:03

Yes, well, it was all Tiger and San Miguel at the time. It's like, oh Heineken, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 19:09

We are so spoiled here in Saigon. Now, now 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:13

And yeah, at the time there were some nice restaurants. Like, it wasn't like there was no Western restaurants when I got here. Um, but obviously nowhere near the uh the amount that we have now.

SPEAKER_00: 19:24

And so what what was the biggest challenge that you found in the beginning of living here? Because I've found and I've talked about this in the beginning, like I couldn't wait to leave the first year. I really didn't. Yeah, I was counting down the days. I was like, when are we going? I want to go back to New Zealand. Like it was just too much. And there's a few reasons, you know, uh like health was one of them, and I couldn't get proper healthcare, things like that. It was nothing serious, it was like a back injury. But yeah, I was couldn't wait to leave, and now I'm like a complete 180 where I like literally like just even the smalling when I'm out for breakfast, I'm like, this is amazing. Yeah. And did you have that? No, that's just me. Because I've spoken spoken to other people and they've kind of had similar experiences.

SPEAKER_02: 20:01

Sure. Well, I you know, like I said, I'd been here already, so I knew what I was signing up for. I'd already lived in Asia for a long time. For me, it was it was an upgrade coming here from Korea. So no, I mean the to be honest, and I'm not just saying this uh to be self-serving, but the lack of good beer was the only thing for me that was missing in Saigon at the time. I was I was drinking gin most nights. Um just because I would, you know. When you first get here, like a cold uh glass of tiger for uh what a dollar? I was like, okay, great. But you know, after a couple months of drinking just you know generic lagers, it's alright.

SPEAKER_00: 20:41

Well I remember coming the first time here and the first beer I had was Ba Ba Ba and thought it was fine. So this is good. It was like 15,000, so that's like 70 cents or something like that. And then you drink LaRue, which is like 12,000 dong, so yeah, you know, like nearly 60 cents, you're like, this is fine. But then yeah, it it gets taught it thin pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_02: 21:02

Yeah, if that's all you have access to.

SPEAKER_00: 21:04

Yeah, exactly. So did you come here then as an English teacher?

SPEAKER_02: 21:07

Yeah, that's what I was doing in Korea, and uh and when I came over here, just one of the one of the like low-key things that I really liked about Psychon was I was meeting people from all over the world doing all different interesting things. Like in Korea, if you were a foreigner, at least the cities I lived in, you were either a teacher or a US military, and that was it. Nobody was doing anything else. Um so yeah, I didn't know what at the time, but I did definitely feel like moving here that there were gonna be opportunities to maybe do something besides teaching eventually. Worked out all right.

SPEAKER_00: 21:36

So tell us then how did you end up getting into working for Pastor Street?

SPEAKER_02: 21:40

Yeah, so I'd been here about a year and a half uh when I saw uh an ad on Facebook for Pastor Street Brewery Company, and I was just like craft beer in Saigon, well, this is this is exactly what I need, and it was it was advertising the opening date as one week later. It was uh Friday, which was my only day off at the time, and I was like, oh a week? I have to wait a week for like a week ago, I didn't know this would ever exist in my life, and now that I know I'm so excited I need to So uh it was a long week, and then yeah, I was there the first day they were open. Uh apparently I was the third person through the door. Um, and yeah, it was only four beers at the time, and Jasmine IPA was one of them, and I was just I'm an IPA guy, it was just oh my god, it was so good. And yeah, I just I hung around. Um I started out, uh I just talked to Bethany, uh one of the co-founders who was working behind the bar at the time. Uh I told her I had crap some craft beer experience. If she needs some help behind a bar, I'd be happy to do it for just for free beers. Um and she was like, she's thinking about it. And I think the second or third Friday I was there, uh they didn't have any food yet. There was no kitchen. So I stayed long enough that I had to order from Vietnam MM three different times from three different places. And uh Bethany told John, one of the other co-founders, about this, and he was like, Oh yeah, hire that guy for sure. Like give him a job. Um and that was it. Just started out working one night a week behind the bar for free beer. And for me, that was that was the height of my ambition. I I was so happy. That was just you know, pulling pints and just talking to people, and it was great.

SPEAKER_00: 23:12

And so what happened after that? Because now you're the CEO director for the country?

SPEAKER_02: 23:17

Yeah, that's correct. Um yeah, so uh you just kept like I took it seriously. I was working, like I said, one night a week, still teaching six nights a week. Um and yeah, eventually they they started paying me with money and not just beer, and then so I s took a couple more shifts behind the bar and a few less shifts teaching. Um and then uh a few months later, uh our original sales guy he quit. John was doing it for a while, and he's the CEO of the company. He's also our like domestic sales rep who was a little bit beneath his position at the time. Uh excuse me. So yeah, he asked me if I want to do the job, and I was just like, I don't have any background in sales, I I wouldn't know what to do. And he's like, ah, just drink beer and tell people how good our beer is. I can do that. Um is that a reality? No, he kind of sold me on the sales job. Uh there's a lot more emails than I ever would have guessed. Uh but no, I mean it it's you know, you do the parts that you have to do so that you get to do the parts that you like to do. Um and I wouldn't, like I said, it's I wouldn't change anything. It's a dream job. Uh uh Some days I have to remind myself, like, they're paying you to drink beer. Like, just do the do the other work and don't complain.

SPEAKER_00: 24:40

You know, it's it's a pretty great job. And what uh what's like some of the feedback you get from friends back home or anything when they see what you do?

SPEAKER_02: 24:48

Oh, they think it's mad. Like especially the kind of the state of mind I was in before I left. I was I was uh I was not being a responsible adult my last little while in Canada. I was I was partying a lot and uh just not I was just in a kind of a bad place. You know, I'd been out of school for a while and I wasn't really happy with the fact that I was still bartending and I was kind of taking that out on myself. Um so yeah, like when my friends like they give you responsibilities, like you've got an expense account? Like what are you talking about? It's it's pretty cool. Um and then yeah, so when obviously when they come to visit they see that yeah, I'm working, it's not just all fun and games, like there is there is a professional side to it, and I've kind of matured a little bit uh in the ten years I've been abroad.

SPEAKER_00: 25:38

Because that thing, right, because you're very active on social media and you're always posting, basically drinking beer, right? Promoting the brand, yeah. Promoting the brand. And um we've talked about this before about the the difference. I was talking to somebody recently about it, the difference between reality, like Instagram, yes, and social media. So the difference between what we see on social media and then what is the reality, right?

SPEAKER_02: 26:01

And so I guess that's what people don't see the reality of your job is emails and sure spreadsheets and Yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna post a picture on Facebook of me like taking a call from a from a client who's upset because you know the the the coupler won't fit into the keg or or yeah, like me, you know, working on spreadsheets. No, one of the So I've got a client in Hanoi who uh usually when I go up there to see him, I uh he's it's usually one of my last stops of the night because it's a nice bar and you know he's a he's a friend as well as a client. What bar is this? Uh the Moose and Roo smokehouse. Um so yeah, usually by the time I get there I'm just having a few beers and talking and everything. I went for lunch one day and the owner was behind the bar. I pulled up my laptop and started banging out emails, and he's just like, Oh, you do work.

SPEAKER_00: 26:54

But if you follow on social media, like all he does is drink beer.

SPEAKER_02: 26:57

Right, well and and for me, I've always said like if if people think that all I do is drink beer, then I'm I'm doing a good job of of you know promoting the brand and myself and the lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00: 27:10

I do want to see a post this week of you working at a computer with a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_02: 27:14

I yeah, I've done sure.

SPEAKER_00: 27:16

Joking. So VM's famous for cheap beer. Yeah, like dirt cheap beer, right? But it comes at a price of quality, and the craft beer is unbelievable quality, but it's expensive relatively. What would you say to people that are kind of, well no, VM is meant to be cheap beer? I've seen people post this online, you know, it's too expensive. What's your response to that?

SPEAKER_02: 27:41

Well, like you said, it's all relative. So my friend that I was drinking with last night he just got back from Australia, and he's like, this is cheap. This is really cheap. He's drinking our Irish stout and he was like, This is an amazing beer, and it'll be at least twice the cost in Australia. Three times maybe. So, yeah, it is all relative, and you know, we didn't when we well, when we when John and Alex and Bethany, when they started the company, it wasn't about getting rich or making a cash grab, or you know, they set the the retail price where they had to set it to in in order to one day become profitable as a company. And and I think there's uh there's still maybe a certain segment of the local population, the local expat population, who think that everybody at Pasteur Street and everybody at Quanu is just like sitting on piles of money and laughing to the bank. It's not like that at all. You know, we're we're still small companies struggling to to make it happen, and the fact that we're expanding quickly is just you know keeping up the demand and also trying to to be sustainable and excuse me. So yeah, I mean it's you know the over the overheads of running a brewery are are massive. So and the the cost of quality ingredients are huge.

SPEAKER_00: 28:57

So yeah, it's and is that what puts the price up? Is it the ingredients then mo mostly? Or what makes it more than a lot of things?

SPEAKER_02: 29:06

It's the labor, it's it's the you know the cost of running a brewery and a distribution system and these different tap rooms. Um it's it's everything. And I'm not crying poor again. I I I love my job, I'm doing well, I'm happy. Um but yeah, to be sustainable, you know, we have to charge a premium price.

SPEAKER_00: 29:26

I'm gonna ask you a question later, which uh what I'm about to say now might answer that question, but we'll see what your what your answer is. One of the things that um I think is amazing, and it always surprises me, is when you go into Pastor Street or Beercraft or any of these Western places which do cost that a premium prize, it's filled with Vietnamese people, like more Vietnamese people than expats. So it's not like just an expat thing, and I think that people get surprised. Vietnam, the perception from abroad is it's a war-home, poor country, right?

SPEAKER_01: 29:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 29:57

And that's true in some respects. There are problems and it there are there is severe poverty here, but also it's climbing out of poverty in one uh one of the fastest grown economies in the world. So there are lots of local people who can enjoy that lifestyle, right?

SPEAKER_02: 30:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

And I don't know what my point is to that, but but I think it's refreshing because you go in and and maybe you if someone's visiting, or maybe you just think, oh, it's just all these expats that are living it up here. But it's actually not your servicing and providing a service to the local community. Sure, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 30:27

Especially when we uh when we first opened uh and I was working behind the bar, I remember a lot of uh younger Vietnamese guys, like you know, mid-twenties to late twenties, uh a lot who had been abroad and who had had craft beer before, they were just so excited to be in the bar. Uh you know, they'd be like sitting by out by the window and they'd come up to me behind the bar, like, you guys make this beer? This is you you guys make this here? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, dude, thank you so much. This is awesome, like, this is great. Um, and yeah, for for us, the Whole thing was to use fresh local ingredients to make like real Vietnamese craft beer, and that's uh you know, use Vietnamese coffee, Vietnamese chocolate, uh, you know, different Vietnamese fruits and and spices. You know, we really want to to locate it in Vietnam. And yeah, that really appealed to to uh to the local Vietnamese, that they to give them a sense of pride about you know the how good something locally made could be, and that we could then send it out to the world and say this this comes from Viet this comes from Vietnam. This look at how good this is.

SPEAKER_00: 31:28

And I think uh like every country, the generation is changing. The younger generation is different to the older generation, right? So in Vietnam, I think they have the highest consumption of beer in the world, one of the highest, it's like eight billion litres of beer a year consumption.

SPEAKER_02: 31:42

Like top five per capita. Yeah, yeah. I uh don't quote me on that.

SPEAKER_00: 31:46

But I think that's changing, right? That's like the older generation where you see the guys on the street with like a crate of tiger and just but the younger generation now are more enjoying like craft beers and yeah, yeah, they've got a taste for something better, and once you get you know, it's like uh it's like hamburgers and steak.

SPEAKER_02: 32:03

Yeah, if you if you've only eaten hamburgers all your life, you think hamburger is the greatest thing in the world. Once you have a nice, perfect, medium rare ribeye, it's like, oh yeah, no, that's better.

SPEAKER_00: 32:11

Yeah. So we're gonna finish up with the same questions that I ask in every episode. Cool. Are we going like lightning round style? Or no. No, okay. You can take your time. Okay. So the first question is what are your top three foods in Vietnam?

SPEAKER_02: 32:26

Um, yeah, it I mean, there's a reason that pho is the most popular and most well-known Vietnamese food is because it's the best. Um like, you know, when I'm sick, a bowl of pho ga is better than any bowl of chicken noodle soup I've ever had in my life. Um, and the best way to prevent a hangover in Vietnam is to get a bowl of pho ba on your way home from the bar. It's fills you up nicely, it's almost perfect. Um yeah, I I I like noodles a lot, so like you know, boon cha, boom ba way, bon tip noong, like those are all my go-to Vietnamese dishes.

SPEAKER_00: 33:00

For me on the way home, it's bopin. I don't even know that. It's like the deep fried rice flour. Oh, okay. Had that? Seen that? Yeah, it doesn't. Should you get that? Yeah? So good. So fattening though. It's like it's like fried in like pork clouds or something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 33:13

No, that's it. I mean, like, yeah, when I'm after I've had a lot to drink, like just the I I wouldn't think of eating it except for you know Western fast food, and this is this is also the best way to to avoid that, is just go for the pho ba. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:29

So top three, number one pho.

SPEAKER_02: 33:30

Yeah. Two, three. Uh buntit noong would be number two, and then yeah, buncha. When I go to Hanoi, there's this great little place close to our tap room there. That's I've had Buncha down here, and it's good, but the the stuff in Hanoi is I mean, that's where it's from.

SPEAKER_00: 33:44

That's Buntit Nung, Buncha are two of my favorites. Really good. Uh what's your favorite bar and beer? We ask this to everybody. Yeah. I feel like we need a stipulation here that it's not you can't say past though for this.

SPEAKER_02: 33:57

Sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 33:59

So but maybe is that is that your favorite bar in bio?

SPEAKER_02: 34:01

Um, I mean it it's home, you know? I I feel like I'm going home when I go to any one of our tap rooms. Um, but anybody who knows me uh will tell you that malt is my favorite bar in Saigon. Uh 46 MACT Boy. They they've got usually five plus of our beers on tap at any time. Um it's just it's just so cozy and nice. And when they opened, there was like now you can get a similar vibe to malt at different bars around the city. At the time they opened, there was nothing like that. It was all like, you know, the Pastor Street uh girly bars or like really expensive rooftop bars, and there was really nothing in between. And it it sounds crazy to say that now, but it's it's true.

SPEAKER_00: 34:41

Um it's how much the scene has changed. Like I completely agree.

SPEAKER_02: 34:45

I'm just thinking back when I came there three years ago, it's like malt was the closest place to like uh American bar or like a nice pub that you could sit down and relax, and like men and women could go together and not feel uncomfortable, and like every it's just it had something for everyone. And uh yeah, just another quick story. So at the time, uh Emergency Room, I don't know if you know the emergency room. It was kind of a weird bar, but the the pizza and the chicken wings were awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 35:11

Was it a weird bar, but it was cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 35:14

Well, when Matt Ryan was running it, it was before he started there and then after he left, it was the difference in quality was noticeable. Um, but yeah, so uh I was closing the bar on Friday nights and a couple other nights, and I'd usually go to an emergency room after because I could get you know a pizza or some chicken wings, someone eat. The kitchen was open late. Uh and when I met Matt King, the owner of malt with his wife, uh the first time I met him at Pasteur Street, uh, another friend of ours, Jeff Pechowski, was sitting uh around the end of the bar. Matt's describing the concept of malt to me, and I'm like, this sounds amazing, like, this sounds great. And he wants to put a couple of our beers on. And uh Jeff pipes up from around the corner, like, if you really want your bar to be successful, you gotta get Misha to go there every night instead of emergency room after he gets off work here. And obviously that's not the only reason that malt's been successful, but that's exactly what happened. As soon as they opened, I was just I was over to malt every night, and I'd get a spinach and artichoke dip instead of uh instead of the pizza and the chicken wings at the emergency room.

SPEAKER_00: 36:13

That that spinach and artichoke dip is still class dishes. Even my mum and dad visited uh about 18 months ago, and they loved malt. They've like that we had to go back because they love the shuffle board, they love the beers, the atmosphere, and they were like, Can we go back to malt tonight? I was like, Yeah, sure, let's go.

SPEAKER_02: 36:30

Well, and that's any any age, any gender, any you know, any style, like it's just it's malt's got something for everyone. It's a great bar.

SPEAKER_00: 36:39

And then so what's your favorite Pasteur street beer and your favorite non-pasteur street beer?

SPEAKER_02: 36:44

Sure. So uh our double IPA is is still my favorite beer that we've ever done. Strong hoppy, it gets you it gets you where you need to go.

SPEAKER_00: 36:53

You can't have too many though.

SPEAKER_02: 36:55

Uh well you can't. I can't, definitely not. I remember one night uh I just the the the phrase double IPA all day came into my head, and we were we were at uh the D1 tap room with some of my friends, and I was buying around at double IPAs for everyone. Uh, and then some of them tried to order something else for the second beer, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, double IPA all day. So we were getting into it, and uh and then I got a call from my boss at the time. He's like, Oh, we're bringing uh some people down from the from the production facility. Uh are you are you at the tavern? Like, yeah. And I'm like, alright, it's it's kind of an important, you know, like be on your best behavior. And I was like, oh yeah, yeah, I'll be fine. A bunch of doubles at the time. They all come down, we're we're sitting upstairs, and I'm still just housing double IPAs. And uh I I remember I was really charming. I was just on my on definitely on my best behavior. Um but yeah, now in our D2 chapter, and that's on the wall double IPA all day.

SPEAKER_00: 37:59

And what what is it what is the strength of the double IPA? 8.7%. 8.7%. Yeah, I could be a good one. A nice sessionable double IPA. Uh what's your favorite daytime place to drink or hang out in in Saigon?

SPEAKER_02: 38:13

Um The Boathouse in District 2 is a great uh daytime spot, just on the river, nice, calm, quiet. Obviously, they have a few of our beers on top. Uh they have great Bloody Marys, uh, great margaritas.

SPEAKER_00: 38:27

It's the first time the boathouse has come up and I've been waiting for it. Okay. That's my favorite place without a doubt.

SPEAKER_02: 38:32

Yeah, well that was one of the the boathouse is one of the uh one of the original like it was here long before I moved here. You know, it's like I said, when when I first moved here, there wasn't as many choices now, obviously, but there were some good ones. And yeah, the boathouse has been a standby for a long time. Uh it's a great little spot in D2. Uh the food's really good nowadays. And yeah, the drinks are excellent. That's and the the view, you know, can't be.

SPEAKER_00: 38:58

Well, I like the boathouse because as we've mentioned, Saigon is crazy, it's noisy, it's busy. And it's difficult to get out of Saigon because it is so big and it's such a metropolis.

SPEAKER_01: 39:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:09

And sometimes you can just be like, I just need to get out, but you can't. And then one day I realize, let's go to the boathouse. And you get there and it's serene and it's by the river and it's calm and there's no beeping. And yeah, it's a good spot. So that's now like my go-to place of like I just need to get out, but I can't go anywhere. Nice. Like boathouse kind of fills that fills that uh need. Um now I mean maybe we've covered this, but why do you stay in Saigon?

SPEAKER_02: 39:35

I think we have. Um they pay me to drink beer.

SPEAKER_00: 39:41

Yeah, it's good enough reason. Yeah. The reason I asked that is just because maybe, and then you've kind of said you didn't find that, you haven't had as many challenges, but I've had a lot of expatches speak to and even locals. It is a challenging environment to live in. Sure. And so that's the reason I ask is why do you stay? Because I know for me there's a kind of story to that.

SPEAKER_02: 39:59

Yeah. Um, I mean, I've I've been saying this for a while, like, if if I find a place that I like more in my travels, then maybe I'll move there. But so far Saigon's been it. Fair enough, good answer. Uh, what one thing would you change about Saigon? Nothing. No, yeah, I mean uh I was thinking of something about you know the traffic police or the the petty theft that happens, but like, you know, every city has its its good and its bad, and you gotta kinda take take it all as a piece. Um I mean I love it here.

SPEAKER_00: 40:31

There's nothing I would change. Fair enough. And what do you think is the most misunderstood thing about Saigon?

SPEAKER_02: 40:37

Um, just from like you said before, from people who haven't been here, that it's uh you know, that it's it's this underdeveloped, you know, war-torn place. And you know, obviously there's a there's that history here. Um but yeah, people don't people who've never been here probably don't realize what what a great city Saigon is and Hanoi as well to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_00: 41:00

There is that rivalry. Every c every country's gotta have two cities that have a rivalry, right? Like you can't not. Uh so talking about the boat house and getting out of town, what's your favorite place to get out of town?

SPEAKER_02: 41:12

Uh Hoyan uh it's it's so different from Saigon in in in in all the nice ways. Um just quiet, peaceful. Uh it's the only place in Vietnam I could see myself maybe moving to someday, but that'd be way down the road. Um yeah, it's I've been all over Vietnam and Oyan's definitely my my second favorite place after a saga.

SPEAKER_00: 41:40

Last question What advice would you give to somebody who's thinking of of living here?

SPEAKER_02: 41:45

Come do it. Any if you have any any uh any idea that you might want to move here, just go for it.

SPEAKER_00: 41:53

It's amazing. Nice. And so that's just finished up there then. So thank you so much. Um what's next then for Pasto?

SPEAKER_02: 42:00

Like I said, we've got a uh our first place in Hoyan coming soon. Um probably looking for another one in uh in Hanoi or Saigon after that. Um yeah, we just we're still focused on uh on the domestic market. Uh, you know, Vietnam is our home, it's where we live, it's what we love. Um yeah, and we've been getting back to export as well recently. Uh yeah, uh I don't want to reveal too many uh long-term plans. Um but yeah, just keep pumping out good beers, uh, you know, get it get them around to the people who want them and just keep expanding.

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02: 42:39

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00: 42:40

You're very welcome. It's been really interesting, it's good to chat to you. And thank you to everyone for listening to another episode of 7 Million Bites, Saigon Podcast. Thanks for listening to another episode of 7 Million Bites, a Saigon Podcast. Thanks to Michelle for joining me today, and a massive thank you as always to Lewis Wright for composing our theme tune and Leoyn for designing our cover art, which you can see on our Facebook page and the website 7millionbikes.com. If you want to get in touch, then you can send me a message on Facebook or you can email me at 7millionbikes at gmail.com. You can listen to future episodes on the website or on Stitcher, SoundCloud, Spotify, and iTunes. If you can leave us a review on iTunes, that would be massively helpful. It helps the podcast be more visible so that more people can listen and hopefully enjoy it as much as you are. So thanks again for listening, and I hope you can tune in for further episodes. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're like me, you may use your laptop at places where you have to use public Wi-Fi. This opens you up to digital snoopers, it's a massive problem. It can be your internet service provider, or you know who, looking at what you do online, or a cyber criminal trying to steal your bank passwords or credit card info, or even a hacker at the next table trying to steal your sensitive data. These days it is vital that you keep your data safe. NoldVPN keeps all these snippers away, it makes your internet activity private, protect you from accessing dangerous websites that are fishing for your data, and let you enjoy your favorite content securely, even while away from home. And it's easy to use, and even I could use it. I've actually been using NordVPN for years now here in Vietnam, and I'm excited to be an affiliate partner with them. I've used NordVPN to watch Netflix, BBC, Disney Plus with ease, and I also know that my information and data are safe from crying eyes, whoever they may be. Join now and you'll get 68% off in three months free when you go to my link, Nordvpn.com forward slash SMB. Just again, for those hard of hearing, Nordvpn.com forward slash SMB. The link is also in the show notes. I know nobody checks them out, but go check that out and you can get the link from wherever you are listening to this podcast. As an affiliate partner, it also means that I will get a small commission when you sign up, but at no extra cost to you. So not only will you be getting a great deal through 7 Million Bikes, you get a great VPN and you'll be supporting 7 Million Bikes Podcast. Stay safe online and enjoy the shows you love. Any questions, just let me know. You know how to get in touch with me, and thanks for listening to this show. Cheers.