Access Louisville
The latest news on Louisville, Kentucky from the staff of Louisville Business First. We look at trending issues in the Derby City from a business perspective. Join us each week!
Access Louisville
St. Matthews development drama
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Our next live podcast: Residential real estate trends are redefining Louisville's growth and neighborhoods. Join us for a live Access Louisville recording as we dive into the latest market insights. The event includes networking, breakfast and a spirited discussion of the latest news in our area. Our panel includes: Stacy Durbin, Semonin Realtors, Jakeeva Lee, Greater Louisville Association of Realtors and Jon Mand, Lenihan Sotheby's. Tickets and registration are available here.
We break down an unfolding development lawsuit on this week's Access Louisville podcast.
Reporter Olivia Estright, who covers residential and multifamily real estate, explains the history of the Gilmans Point development, a proposed apartment development on Westport Road that the St. Matthews City Council recently rejected.
LDG filed a lawsuit on June 11 in Jefferson County Circuit Court, alleging the St. Matthews City Council and its mayor improperly blocked the development despite its compliance with zoning ordinances. Gilmans Pointe was planned to have 199 apartment units with rents ranging from $2,100 to $2,700. The complex would be located at 4101 Westport Road, previously occupied by Plant Kingdom.
This prompts us into a discussion of why new apartment proposals are frequently met with anger from nearby residents.
After that, we chat about a decision by Yum Brands Inc. to sell Pizza Hut. As reported recently, Yum Brands. Pizza Hut, excluding in Mainland China, will be acquired by LongRange Capital, a private equity firm. Pizza Hut in Mainland China will be acquired by Yum China Holdings Inc.
This prompts a discussion about some of the challenges the pizza sector as a whole has been facing, everything from increased competition to a trend on protein heavy diets.
Access Louisville, sponsored by Baird, is a weekly podcast from Louisville Business First. You can also follow it on popular podcast services including Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
A lawsuit in St. Matthews may have major implications on development. We'll chat about it next on Access Louable. Thanks for joining us. My name is David Mann, and joining me today are Shay Van Hoy. Hey everybody, and Olivia Streit.
SPEAKER_00Hi guys.
SPEAKER_03Access Louable is a weekly podcast from Louisville Business First. Each week we bring you the latest news and plenty of sharp opinions on what's going on here in Louisville, Kentucky. A few things before we get into it. First, this podcast is sponsored by Baird. Discover the difference Baird can make in your financial life at rwbaird.com slash Louisville. We'll hear more from Baird later in the show. Also, our next live podcast is set for July 30th. I'm calling this one How Louisville Lives. We'll chat about the ins and outs of residential real estate with three local experts who will be on the show. The housing market is a constant conversation around town, so I hope you can make it out for this one and get some real insights on where the market's going next. I'll leave a link in the notes for this show for where you can buy tickets. But now, and speaking of housing, let's talk about this lawsuit over in St. Matthew's, Olivia. LDG Development Group has sued the city of St. Matthews following a rejection of what's called the Gilman's Point Development. Uh so what is Gilman's Point and why was it so controversial?
SPEAKER_00So I think it makes sense to go back to when it when these plans were originally filed back in 2022. Um LDG had filed plans for this for building like a 300 unit multifamily complex um over at 4101 Westport Road, which is formerly where uh the plant kingdom was located. And so back then they had filed these these plans and there were some requests for zoning, change rezoning um certain parcels of that land. Um so they also heard from the residents at the time who were complaining about the density of the of the development. Um so at that point, uh they ended up sort of altering those initial plans. They ended up shrinking the development to 199 units. So fast forward to this past April, April 29th comes around, the council voted to reject the plans. Um so that brings us to this lawsuit.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So what is the the developer alleging in the lawsuit?
SPEAKER_00So LDG is basically arguing that the city or St. Matthews improperly blocked the development with different zoning ordinances. And so basically the the ordinance that LDG is specifically talking about amended St. Matthew's zoning regulations and basically required that the city council review these larger developments to help them evaluate factors like compatibility with surrounding developments, traffic drainage, open spaces, natural resources, consistency with the city's comprehensive plan. And so the lawsuit basically is just claiming that they adopted an ordinance back in May 2024 aimed at just directly stopping the project.
SPEAKER_03Just this one project.
SPEAKER_00Just this one project, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh interesting case. And I think it could have implications, you know, if if this goes through and a court allows it. I mean, perhaps we'll see other governments try this thing too. Uh but Shay, this is another example of someone proposing a new development and neighbors saying, hell no. Uh we get this thing kind of thing a lot, don't we?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I want to say it's a Louisville thing. I don't really think that it is. It it might be um but maybe more of a Louisville thing, but everywhere I've ever worked and covered journalism, um, this happens. Uh you you get the traffic is usually the the number one thing that people go to, and I'm not judging either way. It's just traffic, light pollution sometimes, uh noise, all of that stuff. So uh, but it's interesting. I had a conversation uh yesterday with uh a person who lived who lives near the new VA hospital. And she was telling me, you know, back at one point it was proposed to be a mixed-use development, everyone fought it because of traffic, and she's like, you know, watch out for what you're really gonna get because you know you kind of have to I think it was a I also heard from a developer once, like, instead of telling us what you don't want, like telling us what like where can we meet? Like, where's the middle ground we can meet on? But so many times it's just oh, it's gonna create too much traffic, and then that's it. Like that's the be-all end all. And that even if you do a traffic traffic study, someone's gonna say three cars more a day is too much because there's already too much traffic. Well, the traffic's already there, that's not really the developer's fault building the new development. So uh, you know, I know I remember, and we'll get to this in a second. Uh, our news partner, WDRB, had a story a couple years ago now, probably where um it was an apartment development proposed in South Louisville. I think it was just, you know, middle of the road, market array departments, um, and neighbors were one of the things they were uh kind of coming together to complain against was they didn't want anything taller than two or three stories.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So there's another, you know, a height complaint. So it happens a lot almost to where if a development goes through without really any complaints, it's unusual. Yeah. Um, but LDG has, you know, faced this in prospect. Yeah, uh, they faced it elsewhere. Um, but then sometimes you know their developments. I think it's probably where it goes through. I don't I don't remember uh much, and maybe I'm misremembering pushback or anything on the Prestonian. That's also very close to downtown. Yeah. So it's not suburbia. Um seems to be where it happens. That's where it, yeah, that's where it happened. And of course, famously I always have to bring this up. I live in the Highlands, and when bike lanes were proposed in the Highlands, which seems to be a no-brainer, you know, it's like the liberal Hippyville one at the Fluvil, and people started putting out signs that said protect our beautiful parking.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess it's not just the burbs. It's uh it's yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, I guess the highlands are the original burbs, but I mean it it happens, it happens a lot. And I get it, people want to protect their quality of life, their property values, but sometimes I think as I was alluding to with the you know, the source I was talking to the other day, um, you might get something in that is not gonna be as good for your property values as the original proposal. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00I also think it's important to note, I think when I've spoken with LDG in the past too, they've mentioned that um a lot of times people, there's just like a misunderstanding of exactly what they develop because they do work on a lot of affordable housing complexes. Um, but I mean, the the Gilman's point, they were planning on making starting rent for like one bedroom apartments 2100 bucks a month, which is is steep. Like that was steep. And I'm like, so I I think there's also that misunderstanding with the public and yeah, they do all kinds of they do different kinds of developments, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Uh yeah, they said market rate um in their story, but like the market rate in St. Matthews, I'm sure is high because it's a very uh affluent part of town. Yeah, yeah. Um let's see. Why do you think uh you kind of went over a little bit of the traffic and the uh um the the the traffic, the height, the the lights, that sort of thing. I mean, is there anything else you think that's kind of behind this stuff? Is it just the population that it brings in?
SPEAKER_02I think people I mean, honestly, and I I'm a homeowner. I own my single family home, but I, you know, grow growing up as an adult, I lived in many apartments, many duplexes. A lot of people do. Most people do. Um, but I think once you get out and maybe you get your own house and maybe you make some more money, um, people start just like people that live in apartments are lesser than. And even if it's no matter if it's a luxury apartment, affordable housing, it's or they're seeing it as transient. But like if you're just getting out of med school or you're just getting out of uh undergrad and you're moving to a new city or you're moving back home, you're probably gonna live in an apartment or you're gonna maybe move back in with your folks if they're from here. So we need these places for people to live to attract young talent to Louisville. And if they don't have anywhere to live, or it's not where where they want to live in town, where you know there's stuff to do, um, or uh the rents are too high because there's not enough capacity. I think that hurts us as a city. And I do I do think there's just some sort of like look people look down their nose sometimes at people who live in apartments, and I don't really know why.
SPEAKER_03That's true. And uh with the caveat that I lived in an apartment when I was when I was young, and uh obviously I get it um the need for those, but uh I feel like the counterpoint is here we got LDG uh kind of saying, hey, we need to help affordability uh by building apartments, but you know, apartments offer people no chance to build any wealth the way a single family home would. And I just saw a report in Market Watch that new single-family home construction is down to a six-year low. So, like LDG really wanted to help, you know, build wealth in Louisville. They could, you know, bet on these uh, you know, lower, uh smaller houses that are market rate rather um rather than uh than large apartment complexes, where really the only chance for anyone to build any wealth there is the owner of the apartment complex, which often turns out to be a private equity firm anyway.
SPEAKER_02So I think we need both. Like I think we we're just short housing of all types. We're short short tiny house type things, we're short apartments, um, you know, uh a lot of times too, like it's become more popular. I know Olivia's written a lot about it, you know, patio homes, things that don't quite take as much maintenance, um, you know, one level for people who are you know aging out of their two-story homes. Um I think Louisville needs it all. We need it all.
SPEAKER_03You know what I think we really need is condos because I know um when uh very pertinent to Olivia. Um I know when I'm when I'm done being a single family homeowner, I think I want a condo, and I just don't see a lot of like variety there. Like um a lot of the new stuff. I love the Clarksville downtown area, and I'm like, I want to live there, but it's all apartments, it's none of its condos, yeah. I'd love for it to be condos, so yeah. We'll see. Maybe maybe they will be able to do that. Maybe that'll be a trench, but you know, yeah. I'm I'm not that close to selling my house and downsizing a couple couple years away from that. So you get sick of mowing your lawn. Ah could that ever happen? No, I'm sure. Like, honestly, it's uh good way to exercise, but uh, I'm sure at some point in my life I'll be like, I am tired of mowing this lawn. Yeah. All right, well, let's move on to another topic here. We'll talk about Yum selling Pizza Hut. Uh Yum couldn't sell pizzas at Pizza Hut, so they decided to sell Pizza Hut. Um basically, uh, I guess uh who's the buyer on that show? You've been covering this story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I kind of picked up um, you know, this would normally be Joel's beat, but he was uh he was on vacation and um uh I always love writing about the the public food companies that we have. Uh so they it's actually kind of a dual deal that totals up to about 2.7 billion. Um the uh basically the non-China holdings for uh Pizza Hut were sold to a private equity firm out of Connecticut called Long Range Capital, and that was a little more than half of that 2.7. It was $1.5 billion. But as you might remember, David wrote about this back when he was covering uh public companies and restaurants. Uh 10 years ago, Yum spun off their China division into Yum China. So Yum China is its own division. So the China properties or assets uh Yum sold to their spin spun off division, Yum China. Yeah, uh, which you know they can control those. So that those are kind of the two buyers, but it all came together right at once and was announced earlier this week as one uh sort of package deal.
SPEAKER_03It's funny because on your something to think about last week, you said all this all this change is going on at Yum Brands, and boy, then that was really uh really an example of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and if you're gonna read, maybe David Linkett in the in the uh podcast story, but I wrote two stories in the same day about yum. I would suggest reading the the second one, which David can link to because it had more a little more time to go into the history of Yum and Pizza Hut. So, you know, when Yum was founded after Pepsi spun off Tricon, Yum was founded, you know, Pizza Hut was already part of that. So it's a legacy brand, but also it's a brand that's been dragging Yum down at a time when KFC, especially globally, KFC's got the numbers. Yeah, KFC's got the numbers, the volume. Kako Bell's got the magic. Yeah, and Taco Bell has, and Taco Bell has like, I think they're a little more nimble, and they obviously appeal to a younger crowd. So um those have been showing sales growth last, I think it was last year, Pizza Hut uh same store sales declined by a percent. They're also uh we announced earlier this year closing like 250 restaurants. So it was definitely the um, you know, the bad child of the the group. Uh and and the the rumors had been out there for a while and it finally came to fruition where they're selling it. And at a time when, and then we're gonna talk about pizza chains in a second, but uh, you know, there are also rumors swirling around Papa John's about a uh acquisition, and uh though they're not, you know, their main HQ isn't here anymore, obviously would still mean a lot to the city if that that happened.
SPEAKER_03What do you think was wrong? Like, just as consumers, obviously we're not experts uh in uh in Pizza Hut, but uh what do you think was wrong with pizza? Like what what was the the problem that kind of made that the the the difficult sell for consumers?
SPEAKER_02Yeah well I think we all consider us experts in pizza in some way or another. Yeah, it's like the thing you talk about, right? Where's the best pizza in Louisville? Yeah no chains, uh the Facebook talk. I you know, I think it just became like totally outdated and boring, and like uh, you know, back in the day it's you actually went to the Pizza Hut, you got the buffet and you played Miss Pac-Man and you had the jukebox and a pitcher of beer sometimes. Um that sort of went out of vogue in general. Yeah, um, but in my story, I talk a little bit about uh you know how pizza chains used to it was them in Chinese delivery, right? That's where you got, yeah, that's where you order delivery from. And then now through all the delivery services, you can get pretty much any cuisine delivered to you. So that novelty is worn off. Um also uh the you know high protein diet push, GLP ones, uh doughy pizzas not really add up to that. Yeah. Um so in my story, I took chicken uh fast casual chicken chains have now easily surpassed uh pizza chains in total volume sold. So I think it I think it just became sort of this oh that's uh no one go, you know, I don't know, no one goes there anymore.
SPEAKER_03I don't yeah. I mean, um uh when's the last time you went to uh Pizza Hut?
SPEAKER_00Man, I think I was five years old after like a t ball game in 2007 when there was still green carpet on the floor and like this is so throwback, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like that's when you went to Pizza Hut. It was like after a T-ball game. And I can't remember, honestly. I don't know. It's been that long. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I've been more recently, but as I said, I live in a pizza desert. So uh there, you know, uh there's only like two uh pizza places in in Georgetown where I live, and uh one one of them is very good and the other one's Pizza Hut. And uh I think it was uh it was a they have an app kind of situation. I just wanted to go get a get a quick pizza.
SPEAKER_02I mean convenience valid. And that's not another reason like the chains that have like mastered convenience. Uh one of my friends that has two young kids, um, they go the primarily they go to McDonald's. He said because they give you so much free stuff on the app. On the app, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean I love the online ordering of anything.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, and I and you know, pizza used to be sort of that can pizza used to be the convenience, and now anything can you know anything can be at your door in 15, 20 minutes. So what do you think the best pizza chain is? You go, Olivia.
SPEAKER_00I feel like I haven't had a pizza chain in so long, which is tough. But I this isn't a pizza chain, but in Louisville, best pizza weeded.
SPEAKER_03Weeded.
SPEAKER_00Weeded.
SPEAKER_03Definitely, yeah, not a chain. I've not had weeded. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've been to good things. Yeah. Um best pizza chain. Uh, David, I think you and I agree on this, at least that we've talked about it before. Something that's bigger than like a very small, like I'm not counting wicks or something like that, is I think jets is the gold standard for places that are regional, almost national. Um, it's always consistently good and they have different styles. Like, I don't really love, I mean, I don't know. Detroit style is fine, and they do a really good job, but they also have a good thin crest pizza.
SPEAKER_03They have a good New York pizza.
SPEAKER_02And they have a good New York pizza, yeah. So I I would say um jets. Um, and then uh specifically Marco's pepperoni magnifico has like two. That's uh Marco's in general is fine, but that specific pizza is very good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've never uh um well I've never had Marcos. I did order jets recently. I was on vacation and uh we we were staying cl in this Airbnb. It was close to a jets, and I was like, yes, I'm close to a jets, I'm gonna get it. Wasn't that great up there? Uh but uh maybe that was just that one. Where were you at? I was in uh Akron, Ohio. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Everything is worse in Ohio.
SPEAKER_03Maybe that was it. Uh but anytime I've gotten it here in Louisville, it's been very good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's a Jets uh at Taylorsville and Bard Sub Road, and I get, yeah, it's it's always really solid. So, you know, and then some of those places too have you know that used to employ their own drivers, they've used that now sometimes to replace their drivers or to supplement if they don't quite have enough. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'll throw out a shout-out for uh bare nose just to have a local chain in there, you know, that's uh locally owned, but they have several locations and it's consistently good. You know, it's uh uh they got a couple different styles across too. So um all right. Well, with that, let's take a break and we'll get a word from our sponsors. We'll be back after that to give you something to think about.
SPEAKER_01I'm Jim Allen, Vice Chair of Baird. For over a century, Louisville families have relied on Baird to provide customized financial solutions. In addition to wealth planning and trust services, Baird also offers extensive investment banking capabilities to clients ranging from large corporations to family-owned businesses. Finally, our public finance team provides valuable advice to municipalities, school districts, and academic institutions in need of capital. Yes, Louisville, Baird has you covered.
SPEAKER_03Okay, well, that is our show. Except we always like to uh give you one last thing here before we go. Uh it's this new thing we started uh called Give Us Something to Think About. And that is the last time I'm gonna say this is that new thing. I'm gonna act like we've been doing it for years the next time I bring this up. But anyway, Shay, give us something to think about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so something um I'm starting to think about the uh late summer concert festivals here, the Danny Wimmer festivals. Uh we go every year. Uh me and Allison Steins go out and cover it. It's a lot of fun. Uh this year's a little different. Uh Loudder Than Life is the weekend before Bourbon Beyond. They've flip-flopped them. But for the first time this year, I believe, I saw emails that say they're selling two-day passes. So before you could only buy a whole weekend pass or one day. And I saw the seeing the reaction to be really positive for people that just want to go for like the weekend. Like, you know, hey, I don't want to buy a four-day, but I want to see more than one day. So that seems to be well received and hopefully will help boost attendance for festivals that are already well attended and looking forward to getting out there and seeing the bands here in a couple months.
SPEAKER_03Heck yeah. I think I've already got the louder than life tickets. Yeah. Looking forward to it. You got the four-day. I think I got the four-day, yeah. Um, all right, Olivia, how about you give us something to think about?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I've been working on a story about data centers, um, a few different stories about data centers over in southern Indiana. And um one I was talking to an economist yesterday who was basically like aside from the environmental concerns, hyperscale data centers seem to be better for the economy than co-location ones or just traditional data centers because they the developers tend to like build them with like renewable energy and just like they like its own water supply. So that was just kind of interesting. So if you had to choose a data center to be built, choose a hyperscale one.
SPEAKER_03And those are the ones Louisville's trying to ban.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and other yeah, and other places. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talk. I mean, we were talking earlier about you know the backlash on apartments and everything, and data centers is certainly the new hot button item to protest in many different ways.
SPEAKER_03What do they build an apartment data center? Now we're thinking combo. All right, just like the Pizza Hut games. Yeah. That was the first thing I thought when you told me Pizza Hut was sold. I was like, it's the separation Pizza Hut and Taco Ball. Um, all right, yeah, I'll uh mention a story Olivia did here. Uh Upland Brewing just acquired Floyd County Brewing and the Enchanted Forest Music Hall over in New Albany. Um, I I I was I kind of had mixed feelings about this news for one. I do love Floyd County's um uh beer. Floyd County Brewing had great beer. Um I hope the music hall doesn't change. That's a really cool venue. Um, but uh I am looking forward to Upland bringing over their specials. They have a nice uh location in Jeff. Great daily special they have on different beers, and I think the Sunday special is any of the specials from earlier in the week. So it's cool that they're doing that. Uh the prices were a little bit high at Floyd County Brewing, so it's cool that like Upland's gonna bring that over. And I like Upland's beer too. It's uh it's uh I I live in Indiana, so I try and drink Indiana beers. When I visited Akron, Ohio, I tried to drink Akron, Ohio beers. So I just kind of like try to be in into the region, whatever the region is. And upland's a regional brewery, so I drink that plenty. So um, all right. Well, I think that's it. And uh, if you like what you hear, please consider subscribing to the Access Louisville Podcast on popular services, including Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Thank you very much, Shay and Olivia. Thank you, thanks, Baird, for your support, and of course, thank you guys out there for listening to us, and we will see you next time. Bye.