On this episode of Change Makers, we are talking to the Talking Book Narrators. Learn about the history of Talking Books, and hear from two well-known Narrators.
On this Episode (In Order of Appearance)
Additional Links
On this episode of Change Makers, we are talking to the Talking Book Narrators. Learn about the history of Talking Books, and hear from two well-known Narrators.
On this Episode (In Order of Appearance)
Additional Links
Welcome to Changemakers, a podcast from APH. We're talking to people from around the world who are creating positive change in the lives of people who are blind or have low vision. Here's your host.
Sara Brown:Hello and welcome to Change Makers. I'm APH Public Relations Manager, Sara Brown. And on this episode we're talking about, and to, the narrators of APH. We're gonna learn some of the history of the Talking Book Studios and hear from some well-known narrators. This is a really exciting episode because if you just heard the beginning of this podcast, you might hear that voice a little bit later up. First, we have APH's studio director Maggie Davis, and APH is Museum Director Mike Hudson here to fill us in on the history and everything else in between. It's a really rich history, and I hope you all enjoy it. Hello, Maggie and hello Mike, and welcome to Changemakers.
Maggie Davis:Hi. Thanks for having us.
Mike Hudson:Good morning.
Sara Brown:So Maggie and Mike can, first off, can you just detail what your position is and what it is that you do here at a p h?
Maggie Davis:Uh, sure thing. Um, uh, as Studio Director, um, I oversee the Talking Book Studio at APH. So I manage a team of professional audiobook narrators or voice actors, uh, along with a team of audiobook editors.
Mike Hudson:And, um, I'm Mike Hudson, and I'm the Director of the Museum here at APH.
Sara Brown:Okay. So let's start from the beginning. APH How did the talking, the Talking Books and the booths, how did all of this become, come to be?
Mike Hudson:So, that's kind of my, my area, so I'll start with that one. Um, talking books, Audio Books for readers who are blind or low vision. Started with the American Foundation for the Blind in the late 1920s. And their director of research, Robert Irwin, was very interested in applying phonograph technology for readers who were blind. Irwin himself was not a very good braille reader, and so he was looking for an alternative way to make reading easy and fun. And, uh, actually, uh, Edison, the inventor of the photograph, one of his, one of his reasons, one of his, his purposes that he thought the original phonograph technology might be useful for was for readers who were blind. So this was something that had been kicking around since, even since that technology had been invented. So, Irwin creates a research lab. They figure out how to get more material on the side of a record. Uh, we call those 33 and a third long playing records, and those were invented at the American Foundation for the Blind. And he also figured out how to make a record out of a flexible enough material so that you could ship it through the mail. Um, so the modern, uh, uh, photograph record, uh, was basically invented by AFB. And, uh, uh, the Printing House actually did not want to get into, uh, recording for people that were blind. Irwin was begging us to do it cuz he needed partners, but the Printing House was busy humping out braille and, and, uh, and, uh, and other, other things like that. And, and really didn't have any, any room at our, at our plant to do it. But Irwin eventually convinced our, uh, superintendent at the time, A.C. Ellis, that there was going to be a tremendous market out there for people who were gonna lose their vision, but would never really be good braille readers. And so in 1936, Irwin convinced Ellis to get into it, and APH installed their first recording studios and all the equipment needed to press vinyl records. Um, and so our first record was recorded that year. It was"Gulliver's Travels" by Jonathan Swift, you know, where the sailor wakes up on the beach and the little people have him tied down. That was our first book. It was recorded by this radio pioneer named Hughes Sutton here in Louisville. Um, and then we hired, uh, Terry Hayes Sales was our first female reader, um, and a guy named George Patterson, who would read for us for 50 years, came on, uh, there in the 1930s as well. And so we, we kind of accumulated this small staff of, of, uh, very wonderful voices, uh, from the beginning. And, uh, lots of early radio and television people here in Louisville actually also read on the side for Talking Books at the American Printing House for the Blind. So, so, uh, for 50 years, we, our, our records came out on rigid vinyl. Uh, in the 1970s and eighties, we started releasing records on flexible vinyl, which some older folks may remember getting on the back of, uh, of, uh, they may remember getting flexible records on the back of, uh, cereal boxes. Uh, then in the 1970s, we switched over to cassettes, audio cassettes, uh, in the two thousands we switched over to making flash drive cartridges. Our books came on flash drive cartridges. And today our books don't come on any physical medium at all. They're all digital,
Sara Brown:So, okay. Speaking of that, you, since you mentioned digital, digital books. So that's how today's books are. They went from records, those little LPs to full on digital. So just the whole evolution of that is insane.
Mike Hudson:Tremendous amount of technological advance. Uh, and it, and it just, technology change continues to accelerate, you know, so we made rigid vinyl for 40 years or 50 years. We made cassettes for 40 years. We only made flash drive cartridges for about 10 years. Uh, so, you know, the, the the way that we consume, uh, audio media continues to, to evolve and change.
Sara Brown:So, so no 8-tracks?
Mike Hudson:<laugh>? No. 8-tracks and, and no Compact Disks either.
Sara Brown:Whoa. Okay. Now, yeah, CDs, I would've assumed that in there too, but no, no 8-tracks?
Mike Hudson:See, right. But think, but, but it's important to understand the way the, the roots of the program are. Most of our recording is done on contract for the National Library Service, which is part of the Library of Congress. And basically they have made a deal with all the publishers of this material that, uh, we will protect their copyrights. And so all of our recordings are all, have always been protected in one way or another. And, and Compact Discs are really hard to protect. I mean, most everybody who ever owned a CD can remember popping it in.
Sara Brown:Oh, is that when you burn them?
Mike Hudson:Y eah, that's right. That's right. But like, like the audio cassettes, for instance, they were recorded on four tracks. And so you needed a special player, a four t rack player, and for them to work the Flash t rack cartridge i s the same way. They were, uh, copy protected, and you needed a special player that you get only from the National Library Service in order to be able to play them. So there was always kind of this level of protection on things, and CDs didn't provide that protection.
Sara Brown:Wow. I did not know that. I did not know that. And you brought up the National Library Service for the Blind and the print disabled. Maggie, can you talk a little bit more about the connection that APH has with them?
Maggie Davis:Sure. Um, we have worked in partnership with the National Library Service for the Blind and Print Disabled for a very long time. Um, I think since the advent of the Talking Book program, um,
Mike Hudson:1938, Maggie was our first contract within NLS.
Maggie Davis:That's, I knew it was in the thirties. I didn't know the year. Thank you, Mike. Um, so yeah, we work for them on a contract basis. All of the talking books that we produce are for their collection.
Sara Brown:Okay. And Maggie, talk a little bit more about the studio. Talk about all the things that the studio does? Just a lot.
Maggie Davis:Yes, we do a lot. Um, in addition to recording books for the National Library Service, we also provide, um, accessibility through audio for other mediums. So, uh, we are working right now on a contract where we record audio description for educational videos. Um, we've also recorded tests to make those accessible to those who can't read, uh, the print versions. Um, other miscellaneous things like, um, uh, instructional videos, uh, instructional, you know, audio. Um, we also contribute, um, quite a lot of audio content for the various products that APH produces.
Sara Brown:And talk about just the, the number of Studio Editors and Narrators that APH has. How many are there?
Maggie Davis:Um, right now we have nine Audio Book editors, um, on staff. Those are our full-time workers. We also have around 15 narrators. Um, they kind of work in rotation, um, just depending on what material we have available. Um, that'll kind of determine who's, who's actively reading
Sara Brown:Now. Now, when it comes to making a, to, to doing a book, can you talk about just the thought process with the production? Like, is that you, who casts the, you know, maybe do you get the book and say, okay, this is a, a children's book, I'm gonna cast this narrator for this book, and maybe this is more of an adult book, so I'm gonna cast this particular narrator for this book. What is that? Like? What is the process?
Maggie Davis:Um, I mean, you've, you hit the nail on the head. That's pretty much the process.<laugh>. Um, I take a look at the list of books we have. Um, I took a look at the calendar. Really. That's, I mean, to be honest, it's the boring part of the job, but it's a lot of time spent looking at the calendar. Um, and I see who's available and who would be the best fit for the material. So we do have a handful of voices that are particularly good, um, with the children's books or with, um, I don't know, like a, a thriller or, um, the Cowboy Western type novels. Um, we also have narrators who only read non-fiction because they're voice really just, it fits that genre a little bit better. Um, yeah, so, and, and there's various skillsets along with that. So, you know, is, is this reader particularly good at, uh, languages? Not necessarily, not necessarily fluency, but, um, did it make it sound convincing? Um, yeah, there's, it's a lot to consider
Sara Brown:Now. How many hours go into recording a full-length book?
Maggie Davis:<laugh>? Um, so there's, there's many steps involved in the production of a book beyond just time in the studio. Um, for an average full length book, um, we're probably talking about 700 minutes, um, or like 11 hours of completed material. So you can easily multiply that by two to get your time spent in the studio. Um, so let's say 24 to 30 hours in the studio. Um, and that doesn't consider the preparation and research time or the post-production work either because we, we not only record the books, but we also proofread the books as someone's listening to them, uh, in full after they've been recorded. And then we also produce the actual audiobook, the completed, uh, talking book for the, for the, um, reader. So that is its own time consuming process. So the, the books hang around for I'd say probably a good two months. Um, an average length book, it takes about two months from start to finish.
Sara Brown:Wow. Two months. Okay. Now, Mike, APH used to produce talking books on vinyl records. Can you talk about the impact that APH had on the vinyl record industry at large?
Mike Hudson:Well, absolutely. It kind of, I mean, it goes back to Robert Irwin. When, when, when he at, and this was at the American Foundation for the Blind. When, when, when he wanted to, uh, explore the use of phonograph records for audiobooks for blind readers. At the time, phonograph records came on 78 RPM uh, records with one song on each disc. Okay. The discs were very brittle. They were made out of shellac. If you dropped them, they broke. Right? Um, and by the time Irwin was done, he had invented what we call the LP record. Uh, and so when APH gets into the record, you know, the recording and pressing business in 1936, uh, the music industry is not using, uh, LPs, right? They're, they're still releasing them on these 78's. That wouldn't happen until the 1940s, really, after World War II. Um, so LPs really kind of changed the way that, uh, you received music. You know, in the, in the, uh, before that you got music on, on just, uh, a series of, uh, individual discs that would be put into a kind of, almost like a photo album, right? Like a, a series of sleeves. And then each song, you know, with one song on each side would be in a sleeve. That's why we called it a"record album," right? Because it was really more like a, a photo album filled with individual discs. Oh, after, yeah, after the LP comes out, then you have, all that music is on one disc that comes inside a single sleeve, but we continue to call it a record album. Right? And even today, like when Taylor Swift releases her, her next project, right? It will be called an"album," right? Yeah. But of course, and that all goes back to the old'78 technology. Um, and of course, also, uh, APH was pressing records for the NLS. We were not competing with, uh, other record pressing companies like RCA or Decca, or any of these big record publishers. And so, in the post 1940s music scene, there were a number of little companies that wanted to get into record production and sales, but they didn't have the technologic, the technological background to do it. Right. For instance, there was this guy named, um, Sydney Nathan in, uh, Cincinnati. He owned this little company called King Records. And, uh, in order to, uh, learn how to press records, he came down to the American Printing House for the Blind. Uh, where, you know, even back then, as we do today, we give daily tours, right? And so, uh, Sydney Nathan, you know, he, he, he, he, he goes into the, into the, uh, into the plant. And, and, and that's where he kind of starts to learn how to press records. Ends up hiring away, uh, our, uh, Record Production Manager, a guy named George, George Whittle, to come up to Cincinnati and run the King Records record pressing Operation. And King Records is responsible for releasing a whole sch slew of, uh, what was then called race music, but would've been we today, we'd call it r and b. And what, uh, and Hillbilly music, which now we call Bluegrass and Country. Um, and so helped to popularize r and b and, and bluegrass and country music to a, a nation that was hungry for new musical styles. Um, so, uh, the, the printing house really actually had a lot of influence on these, a lot of these companies, uh, uh, learning how to press records by coming to a company who was not competing with the other record companies. You know, if you, if you went to Decker, Columbia r c a, they didn't want you to learn how to press records. Right. Cuz you'd be a competitor. But the printing outs didn't care cuz we were making talking books for blind readers.
Sara Brown:Wow. That's really cool. So we<laugh> we weren't really competing with any of them..
Mike Hudson:So we didn't, we didn't care if you came and borrowed our technology. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Yeah.
Sara Brown:Wow. Wow. Now, Mike, you know a lot about narrators and talk about some of the narrators from the past present that have, do you know if any of them have any particularly interesting roles on their resumes?
Mike Hudson:Well, if, if you were a television, an early television broadcaster in the 1950s at WAVE or WHAS, the two, the first two television stations in, in Louisville, it's very likely that you were also doing a side gig reading, talking books at the American Printing House for the Blind. So, um, uh, William Gladden and, uh, uh, Livingston Gilbert and, um, uh, you know, the singing Cowboy, uh, Randy Atcher, who, who was the host of a, uh, early morning, uh, kids' Cowboy show, uh, in, in the 1950s and sixties. Uh, you know, Randy Atcher, the Singing Cowboy was one of our narrators. So if you grew up in Louisville in the 1950s and sixties, all the people who were on television were, and not all, but you know, a lot, a lot of'em were also over here reading, uh, for us.
Speaker 4:Um, there was a guy named, uh, Milton Metz, whose famous nationally for his on the street, uh, broadcast. And Milton was another one of our, you know, uh, great narrators, just amazing voices. Uh, and cause we've always used a lot of radio and television broadcasters. And Louisville is also well known as a theater town. I mean, we have awesome regional theater here. So then you have people like, uh, Mitzi Friedlander, you have people like Mitzi Friedlander, who was the first young woman to graduate from the theater program at the University of Louisville, started reading for us in 1963 and read her last book. I don't know, Maggie, something like 2015 or something like that. Literally read for, you know, like 50 years, uh, 60 years. Uh, every book that every one of Sue Grafton's mystery novels, you know,"A is for Alibi." You know, she wrote the whole series,"M is for Murder." They were all narrated by Mitzi Friedlander. Uh, when, when you walk past Studio three, uh, down in the studio today, it's, you can almost hear Mitzi's voice echoing out of there. She read here for so long. And that was true of a lot of our narrators. And a lot of our narrators still today have been reading for us for a long, long time. And these voices, they become almost mystical friends, uh, to, to our readers out there because I mean, I, we had some people in the, in the, in the museum on a tour the other day, and they talked about how how much the narrator's talent affects how much you enjoy the book. To the point where instead of picking a book out because of its content matter, you might pick it out because it has a particular APH narrator whose voice you love.
Sara Brown:I can believe that. I can totally believe that. It goes back to when, um, I asked Maggie about how she, how, you know, she picks the, the narrator. You pick the right narrator for the right book. It is a fantastic ride.
Mike Hudson:<laugh>. Well, I have a question, Maggie. How do you pick out somebody to read a cookbook?<laugh>?
Maggie Davis:Uh, it's basically who, who's drawing,"who's drawing the short straw?" No, not really<laugh>. Um, no, there are some voices that can really bring some energy to a cookbook or who, um, can like read through a list of ingredients, um, in a very clear tone. Um, not all voices can really translate a, a list of ingredients and a list of steps and a recipe, uh, to the reader in a way that would be easy for them to follow and understand. Um, so it, yeah, it's, it is a skillset.
Mike Hudson:Yeah, because like, if you're, if you're telling a story, right? You're reading a novel mm-hmm.<affirmative>, it has its own momentum, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you, you get into the story itself and, and you begin interpreting it. But reading a cookbook seems like a really, like one of the more challenging projects that you all work on down there.
Maggie Davis:Yeah. I'd say, uh, on all, all stages of production, it's one of the more challenging, um, types of material that we put out for sure.
Mike Hudson:And you, you certainly need to make sure that all the, uh, ingredient measurements are right,<laugh>.
Maggie Davis:Yes. Yes. It's a lot of, uh, lot of repetition and a lot of accuracy,
Sara Brown:You know, thinking too, like I bet a cookbook for making drinks may, you know, versus grilling mm-hmm.<affirmative>, those are gonna be two different types of ways they would be narrated, wouldn't they? Mm-hmm.
Maggie Davis:<affirmative>. Well, in some, especially, especially now that we have like, um, celebrity chefs and, and very popular cookbooks out there, um, that will have a more conversational tone maybe, um, or have a particular, you know, celebrity voice attached to them. Um, so we do take that into account too, like, who is, who is the original author behind this? And do I have a voice that kind of matches up, um, with their kind of overall feel or sound?
Sara Brown:That was a good question. Mike<laugh>, thank you for that.<laugh>. All right, Maggie, for those interested and accessing talking books produced by APH, can you talk about who can and how they can access those materials and what that means for the end users?
Maggie Davis:Sure. Anyone who has access to NLS' full collection can find, um, titles that a p h records. Um, so specifically anyone who has low vision blindness, um, any kind of disability that prevents them from holding or reading a printed page. Um, this is a temporary or permanent disability. And this also, this includes those with reading disabilities. Um, the programs open to all residents of the United States and to American citizens who are living abroad. Um, you have to, uh, eligibility for the program must be determined by, uh, competent authority per N l s. So like medical doctors, um, RNs, therapists, optometrists, um, and so on. Um, full information about eligibility, um, can be found on the Library of Congress's website. Um, and information about how to apply for the service is also, um, available there. Um, I know, um, access to these materials, it, it's been life changing for our end users. Um, I mean, the availability of commercial audiobooks is, uh, uh, relatively recent. Um, the, you know, mainstream audience, um, hasn't been using audiobooks for that long, um, but access to these talking books that it's been making material available, um, for years and years to those who otherwise wouldn't have access to, um, all of this entertainment and information and education. So it's, um, it's a wonderful program that, um, the Library of Congress provides.
Sara Brown:Now, this is, this is, this is something I've been wondering for a while. What makes the Audio Books recorded by APH different than the average audio book you might find on Audible?
Maggie Davis:Um, great question. Um, the talking books are created with accessibility in mind. So, um, the navigation, uh, is typically much more extensive than what you would find in a commercial audiobook. Um, so where, you know, you'll download a book from Audible and you'll see a list, uh, chapter, chapter, chapter. You'll just be able to skip through that. Um, the way we approach it is, you know, you, you read everything that's there. So if there's an author's note, it's there. If there's a preface, it's there, it's navigable, you can jump to it. Um, and the headings are there for you to really peruse what the entire content of the book is. Um, this is including, um, supplemental material, uh, found, especially like in a nonfiction book. So lists of resources, um, bibliographies. Um, so it's, it's not the most, um, titillating material to read through. Um, but it is incredibly helpful to have, uh, to be able to skip through and find, you know, what is that book that they were referencing in this non-fiction book that, that I'm listening to? Um, so yeah, the number one thing is the accessibility factor. Um, it's, it's designed to put as much of what the cited reader gets into the hands of the low vision or blind or otherwise physically disabled person. Um, and then also our books are recorded, you know, to NLS is very high standards. So they're recorded by highly trained teams of audiobook editors and professional narrators. Um, so not volunteers working out of their, you know, closets turned recording booths. These are recorded in, uh, professional recording booths here at the printing house. Um, and this comes across in the quality of sound. And then the accuracy of the spoken word is accounted for by having that team, uh, not just a narrator, but also the audiobook editor, you know, working with them cuz they, they're there to provide pronunciation. They're there to provide some direction. Um, you know, you, you, you read this phrase a little, you know, it wasn't very clear, so go back and read that phrase over again. Or, um, you know, I don't think that really communicated the author's intent. Can we try that again? That sort of, um, you know, helpful direction. All of that, uh, together kind of is what really sets apart the APH talking books from like a commercial mass produced audiobook.
Sara Brown:One more question about the, the, those types, the differences in the books versus talking books and audio books is, can you talk about the range of titles recorded by the studio and how that might differ from the titles you find on Audible?
Maggie Davis:Um, sure. I mean, we record all sorts of books, um, so similar, similar to what you could find on Audible. Um, but in addition to, you know, whatever's popular at the moment, we also are recording books that are requested. Um, so we see all kinds of titles from your modern beach reads to cookbooks, to sprawling historical volumes. Um, the range just boils down to what the patrons request and what the librarians at NLS want to add to the collection.
Sara Brown:My other question, beyond narration, what work is done to take a print book and create an accessible talking book?
Maggie Davis:A a lot of work is, is put into it that you don't see, uh, with the finished product. Um, I mean, we, when we receive materials to record, there's a lot of front end work done, um, looking at, again, casting, so who, what voice is going to be right for this book? Um, and then also, you know, researching, does this book have a lot of, uh, content that needs researching? Is it historical? Are there a lot of, um, you know, various languages used or, um, maybe complex terminology. Sometimes we'll have like a medical book, so that'll be a little bit more, um, research heavy. Um, then from there, there's also looking at the book itself, like what's the structure, what's the navigation? What will be the most helpful way to present this, um, to the final end user? Um, and then once we get into the studio, the, you know, in real time recording there, there's a lot of work that goes into it. It's not just, um, are the words on the page being recorded, but is the author's intent being communicated? Um, you know, is is like even in a basic novel, is the, is the conversation, does it sound like two people talking or does it just sound like someone reading off a page? Um, there's a lot of nuance involved there with the na with the narration. Um, and then after the narration is done, we have the, the, the backend research. So we have, uh, the proofreading, that's one of our audiobook editors will take the book and listen to it. Um, they'll speed it up so that they're not listening to it at the, that the slow realtime speed that they heard it in the studio. But, um, so they'll listen to it. It'll sound like, um, listening to the, the Chipmunks at Christmastime. Um, and th they will listen for any mistakes, any inaccuracies, um, any audio glitches, anything like that. And that, that's sent back into the studio then for, um, correcting any mistakes. And then that same audiobook editor will take it, um, take the, the corrected, uh, complete audio, and they will create the talking book from that. So there's a program that we run, um, and many, many steps, uh, on our checklist to make sure everything is in tiptop shape. And it's, yeah, it's a long, complex process.
Sara Brown:No, I believe you on that. Maggie, or Michael, are there any final things you would like to say? Is there anything you'd like to say before we wrap up this interview?
Maggie Davis:Um, I, I know, uh, on my part, I am just grateful to be involved with the studio. I feel a great responsibility, um, to be part of such a historical and meaningful program. Um, and, you know, honored to work with very talented narrators, very talented editors. Um, it's a, it's a dream job. It really is. And, uh, I appreciate you taking the time to learn a little bit more about it.
Mike Hudson:And I'll just say that the studio is one of our, you know, it's our best known program outside of, of the company. And whenever we have visitors who are blind, who are talking book listeners, they, they really, really love going down to the studio and getting to see, uh, literally the books being made there right in front of them. So that's, it's really one of our, our, it's just one of our more special programs.
Sara Brown:All right, Maggie and Michael, thank you so much for joining me today on Change Makers.
Maggie Davis:Thank you for having us.
Mike Hudson:Thanks, Sara.
Sara Brown:Okay. Now, this one is really fun, and I'm so excited to have him here. I have APH narrator Jack Fox here. Um, and again, like I said earlier, did you hear his voice at the beginning of this podcast? That is him. You hear his voice everywhere. And this is such a cool interview because it's almost like having Suri talk and respond back to you literally in a conversation. Hello, Jack, and welcome to Change Makers.
Jack Fox:Thank you very much. I think I, uh, said that at the start of the program, I believe. My, I do the opening for that. Yeah, that's me
Sara Brown:<laugh>. This is so cool. So, yes, if you listen to the beginning of this podcast, this is the man that does it. This is his voice, Mr. Jack Fox. So welcome. This is so cool. Thank you. And got a bunch of questions, but just hearing, hearing your voice, just, you know, in airports and at the beginning of this podcast, and then actually hearing it for this podcast and having it respond is just, and having you respond is just so mind blowing.
Jack Fox:Oh, it's my pleasure. Believe
Sara Brown:I'm Sorry. I'm fan. I'm, I'm fan-girling all over you.<laugh>. All right. So first things first off the top, tell us a little bit about yourself, how long you've been a narrator, all of that.
Jack Fox:Well, let's see. I, uh, have been a narrator at APH, actually since 1978, which is a long time. Uh, I began in radio when I was in high school in a little town called Harvard, Illinois. So I tell people I graduated from Harvard at 17, so, uh,<laugh>
Sara Brown:<laugh> oh my gosh.
Jack Fox:But that until they find out the truth. Uh, but I, uh, worked at radio at a, a station hearing in Louisville at WHAS, and back in the, uh, middle 70's, I left the station for just a short while to do some freelance work and some business projects. But I found that I needed a schedule because I would, at one o'clock in the afternoon, I was still in my pajamas if I didn't have something scheduled, you know, and my wife said,"you need to have a schedule and get out of the house." And so I'd heard about APH and, uh, and reading, uh, books. And I applied and was accepted and scheduled myself at eight o'clock in the morning. So I would be up and out, and that's actually how it started. And then I fell in love with him. We've been there ever since, uh, and read they tell me around 2,000 books over that period of time. So, uh, that's how it all started.
Sara Brown:Wow. Now, did you, okay, so you had your background in radio, like you said, so, so you were kind of used to being reading and all of that. That is so cool.
Jack Fox:Of, most of the narrators there at the printing house, and they're anywhere from 15 to 20 and been over the years. Most of'em have been from broadcast, uh, radio television stations or actors who have a large acting community here in Louisville. And most of the narrators have been from that. And I, I fit in that category.
Sara Brown:So Cool. So cool. Now, for those listening aside from the beginning of this podcast, can you tell some of the places we might have heard your voice?
Jack Fox:Uh, let's see. Um, there's a, a, a Bats Museum, Louisville Slugger Museum here in Louisville. And for years, I think it's still there, my voice was there. As you took the tour, uh, describing each top, you'd come to us talk where they, they laid out the bats, another where they printed them, another where they, uh, uh, got them ready for display. And my voice was on a, a video there describing all those stops. So it was there, uh, you mentioned the start of Change Makers, uh, do that. And I was also in a, uh, selected for a movie, the"Shape of Water," which won the Academy War in 2018. Uh, as a result of my voice being in airports, evidently the director, Guillermo del Toro, was going to the LAX airport and heard my voice and said,"I want that voice from my movie." And I'm in there, I don't know, 15 or 20 times doing security announcements. You never see me, but my voice is doing security announcements for the facility where the filming takes place. So, uh, you'll hear it there, and who knows where I'll pop up. I'll most, most of the notoriety, I get those for bugging you on the moving sidewalks in Amer, uh, America's airports are telling you to"make sure the luggage you claim is your own," or, uh,"don't violate the no parking zone." I get a lot of notoriety from that. I tell people every week at church, I have at least two or three people say,"Hey, I was in Tulsa and you helped me through the baggage area," or something like that. So, uh, that's, that's gonna be a claim to fame, I guess, for a while.
Sara Brown:Oh my goodness. So you've read what"please, what, what do you say when you're approaching, you are approaching the end of the moving sidewalk?" What?"Please step with caution..."
Jack Fox:"Please stand to the right to allow those wishing to walk to pass safely on the left." So I'll, I'll bug you from wherever you are. I'm in a camera somewhere looking down at you.
Sara Brown:Oh, my goodness. So you just talked up, you talked about how you needed to get outta the house, and you signed yourself up at 8:00 AM So is that how you got into narrating books?
Jack Fox:No, that's, that's it. I, I only do books at, at, uh, APH. I don't do any commercial books. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Uh, so I've, I've been there, and that's how it started. And it started just to get me outta the house and have a routine, but I quickly loved it and, uh, enjoy every facet of it. So I continue to do it.
Sara Brown:This is so cool. How long does it take for you to narrate a book?
Jack Fox:That varies from book to book? Depending on, uh, how long it is, of course, and the complexity of it? Uh, I would think I would average reading about 30 to 50 pages a day, depending on, uh, on the style of books. Some books are easier than just slow. Others are very technical, or I have, uh, I have to struggle sometimes with foreign languages, getting the accent right for the, uh, for the narrator and every, uh, for the, uh, monitor. And, uh, so that will take me a little longer. As I said, some are very technical. So if I read, uh, 30 to 50 pages a day, and it was a 300 page book, and I read a two hour session, uh, maybe two or three times a week, so you can just put, that's the yardstick I would use somewhere, anywhere from two weeks. I read one, one time, there was like 600 pages. It took a month and a half, I think, to get that done. It had some complexities to it and some complications, but, uh, oh, wow. Generally, you can, uh, a book in a week, week and a half, two weeks, depending on how many sessions you're doing.
Sara Brown:Now you've been doing this for a really long time, so clearly you must love it. What do you love most about narrating these, these books?
Jack Fox:I do. Um, first of all, I just love the service to, uh, to the community. And I love being a part of the a p h community itself. Uh, it's a great group of people. They're dedicated to their mission, and we're down in the basement, the narrators in the, this talking book studio in the basement. But, uh, we do venture upstairs once in a while for, uh, just various things. But I just like, uh, meeting the people who work there and, uh, uh, as I said, their, their attention to the tale and their dedication to the mission. So I, I like that. Uh, I love feedback. We get, uh, feedback from listeners from time to time, and I, I love that it also, uh, has me read books that I normally wouldn't take time to read, just because I'm busy or something else. And so I, I read books that are outside my wheelhouse, so to speak, and that's, that's a reward I gained a little knowledge, a little knowledge makes you dangerous sometimes, but, uh, I enjoy that.
Sara Brown:Now, when you're preparing to narrate a book, how do you prepare? Can you just walk me through what you do? Just through the day? Mm-hmm.
Jack Fox:<affirmative>, when I get a book, I, i, I wanna read ahead of time before my session, that, that improves the efficiency. Uh, so I'll, uh, spend time looking through the portion that I think I'll read, at least the next session. Sometimes I get hooked on the book and I read the whole thing, you know, in one sitting or something. But I'll look ahead. I look for, uh, difficult words, or I look for, uh, where the story is going or, uh, different things that I'm at want to emphasize. So, um, that's what I'll do. Then when I go into the studio, we have a, uh, monitor who sits in a room opposite me and, and monitors my mistakes and, uh, corrects, uh, mispronunciations and things like that. So we'll sit there during that time and, uh, read, and that person will stop me if they need to, and we digitally now can back up and, and correct things as we go along. Uh, that's what a session would be like. Sometimes the sessions then are going back to, uh, make corrections on what we've done. We have, we have a monitor while we're reading, and then a proof reader goes through the whole thing. And we'll send back corrections to us, and we'll spend a, a hopefully not long having to do many of those, but sometimes if you have a, a word you've mispronounced or something like that, have to go back and correct all those in a book. Uh, but that's pretty much what a day would be like. I'd prepare going in and then, uh, get comfortable in the studio and begin my session and read for two hours. At one point, several years ago, we were reading two, two hour sessions per day, so four hours a day. That was a long stretch. Uh, but we got a lot, a lot done. And that's pretty much what a day would be like.
Sara Brown:So before you start reading, start your narrating, is there anything you do to prepare to just sort of warm up your voice? Do you sing on the way in? Do you sip some tea?
Jack Fox:I actually do. I actually do, uh, believe it or not, and the people sitting in stop lights next to you must think I'm crazy because I'm sitting. I try to do it inconspicuously,<laugh>, but sometimes I built it up<laugh>. But those are warmups. I do warm up and I, uh, I sing in the shower the morning. That seems to get my voice going over the years. People ask me, uh, I have a fairly melodious voice. People say, do you sing? I say, well, I'm pretty good in the shower. I don't know if it translates anyplace else, but I'm pretty good in the shower. But I do, each morning I sing as I'm showering and, uh, warms up my voice and loosens it up. And then I do some warmup exercises as I, uh, as I drive to the studio, uh, little,"me mi ma mo mu," things like that. And, uh, little tricks you learn to, uh, warm your voice up and give it a little, uh, a little, uh, variety and range. So, uh, I do that, uh, every time before I go in. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I don't, I don't drink hot tea. I always have a cup of coffee with me. Some people, excuse me, of having that cup surgically attached to my hand. Uh, I don't know if coffee is good for you, not, but it helps my voice. It loosens it up and gives it a, a warmness. I also keep some, uh, throat lozenges and sprays handy in the studio if I need that sometimes.
Sara Brown:So what's the hardest thing you've narrated?
Jack Fox:Uh, the hardest thing would be a book with lots of, uh, Russian in it.<laugh> or German or something like that.<laugh>. Okay. The most difficult thing I ever had to do was years ago, we did a lot of magazines at APH, and one was Sports Illustrated, which I enjoy. I'm a sports fan, and I would read about the baseball players and the football player. But one year we recorded the whole, uh, the whole range of statistics for every major league baseball player. And it was their at bats, their, how they batted left hand, right hand, their age, their weight, how many curve balls they hit, how many times they walked, how many home runs they hit, how many doubles, triples, and other, uh, arcane statistics for every major league player. And that took forever to do, and tremendous concentration because, uh, you know, it was small print and had to have a, a follow the line all the way across for every, every stance. So that was probably the most difficult thing I had to do. Uh, along with books that are, uh, very technical, um, I've had, I've done some recipe books, which were kind of interesting, but still, you get a little repetitious there with a quarter tablespoon of this and a half teaspoon of that. Uh, those are, those were difficult for me. Difficult, maybe not the right word, but tedious, huh.
Sara Brown:Wow.
Jack Fox:Yeah.
Sara Brown:This is so fun to hear. This is so interesting.
Jack Fox:Interesting. That's another challenge I have, but I'm a kind of emotional guy, and when I get to real sentimental stuff, it's hard to keep my emotions under control. You know, if a, a dad and his son or a, a dad and his daughters, I've got two daughters and, uh, two granddaughters, if I'm reading something like that, very emotional, I have to take a few runs at it sometimes. And then sometimes if you get into a situation where it's just hilarious<laugh> to stop and, and, uh, make sure you're, you're not just laughing out loud, although it sometimes you, you can't keep that, uh, filters through, and I think it adds color to the reading. But, uh, I've had a couple of sessions where both the monitor and I, for some reason, we're on the floor laughing, and we have to stop and back up and do it again till we, we got it with some semblance, some dignity to it that was, uh, difficult but fun.
Sara Brown:Now, what's something people would be surprised to learn about the narration process or the audiobook narration in general?
Jack Fox:Uh, let's see. I'd have to think about that. What everything we do we take for granted. So, I don't know what would particularly surprise people. Maybe not be surprised, but enjoy knowing. There's a lot of camaraderie among the a p h people. We have, as I said, I think 15 to 20 people at some time. Not, we're not all there at the same time, but we have a good camaraderie. We enjoy each other. Uh, we enjoy the people we work with, the monitors and the proofreaders. Uh, we get along well. Uh, we have 12 studios at present. Uh, we're in a little bit of a, uh, slowdown period right now. We don't have the number of books at APH we've had in years past. So, uh, we don't have as many people, uh, in the studios as we had it one time. Some of the proofreaders are working from home. And, um, then COVID hit us. Also, COVID shut us down for a little while, so we're getting back in the groove from that. Uh, but, um, I guess judge, the, uh, the fact that we're down in a basement at APH, uh, we don't see the light of day down there, so, uh, that, that might surprise people. Also, uh, we enjoy having tours gone through and getting to see some live people once in a while. So I guess, uh, I dunno if anything would, would particularly, um, surprise people, but that, that's a, that's a picture of what we do.
Sara Brown:Now. When you're not doing narration, what do you like to do? Do what can you be found doing when you're not down in the basement reading, narrating?
Jack Fox:I like to spend time with my family. I have, uh, two daughters, which one of my daughter, Jill, has been at the Printing House and an narrator for, uh, about 20 years, I think. And, uh, another daughter, Heather, worked there for a little while as a monitor. Uh, we had an interesting situation one time. Uh, Heather was my monitor on this particular sanction. She wasn't normally, and I had to read a book, and that, that's another area that's difficult. We'd get some pretty steamy scenes in there sometimes, and some language that is, uh, not always, um, uh, above board. And in fact, I, I've had some blind readers at my church, and they say, how could you read that? I said, well, I don't, I don't write'em. I just read'em. But anyway, Heather was monitoring this session and there was some pretty rough language in there, and I was kind of embarrassed and everything, and she couldn't wait to run down the hall and tell her sister. You won't believe what dad just said. So, uh,<laugh>. Oh, my question is, yeah. Yeah, that was interesting. Uh, let's see. Uh, I, I like to play golf, uh, back to my family. I spent time with my family, with my daughters and granddaughters. I enjoy them a lot. Uh, and my wife, we like to travel. Uh, we are on a quest to catch all the Major League Baseball parks in the country. We've got, uh, 16 under our belt, 14 to go and have plans to maybe catch two or three more this summer. Uh, I like to golf, uh, get out and, uh, play. As I get older, I, the only thing keeps me going is that as I get older, I may be able to shoot my age one day when I get to be 95. Maybe I can But, uh, church, we're very involved in our church. We go to St. Matthews Baptist Church here in town, which is a great congregation, and we're pretty involved there, uh, and, uh, enjoy the people there. But as I said, traveling is also, we like to take long trips, but we also, my wife and I, take little day trips, find interesting out of the way places and get off the major highways and just buying little towns or little, uh, spots of interest that we enjoy that.
Sara Brown:Very nice. Very nice. Very nice. And I am talking to your daughter, Jill. She's gonna be part of this podcast too. Yes. So I'm really excited to talk to her. I see it runs in the family then<laugh>.
Jack Fox:Yeah, she's, she's, uh, she's very good. She's very good.
Sara Brown:Um, now for those listening that are interested in getting into narration, what advice would you have to give someone?
Jack Fox:You know, it's kind of interesting. Everybody, uh, uh, I, I relate this to narration and, and voiceover work. Everybody who has a good voice, um, people say, well, you should, you should read books, or You should be on the radio, or something, something like that. But it takes, it takes some training. I would say just first of all, explore it, uh, for narrating books. See if you can get in touch with a studio and see if you can visit them. That's how I started radio. I just went to a radio station one day and kind of showed up, and I emptied trash can until, you wouldn't do that at a p h, but get to know, uh, Maggie Davis or whoever is there, uh, as the director and talk to some people and visit with them a little bit. Visit us or other audiobook studios. Uh, visit with them and see what they require. Uh, and then, uh, some trainings required. Also, you have to learn how to use your voice, how to preserve it, uh, how to be, uh, uh, demonstrative and your reading. Uh, take some acting classes, things like that. Uh, that would be the best advice I would give.
Sara Brown:Now for when you're in the booth, what's your favorite genre of book to read? Do you have a favorite off the top of your head?
Jack Fox:Uh, sort of. I, uh, I like to read a good mystery book with a little touch of humor into it. Um, one that comes to my mind right off is the James Lee Burke series, and it has a detective named Dave Robicheaux. And, uh, I like those a lot. Uh, so a good mystery book with a little touch of humor. I like humor books. I became dangerous for a while there. People avoided me in the hallways at the printing house. I would read, uh, comedy books of the Bob Hope joke book and the Milton Berle Joke Book. And I read some Steven Wright stuff, and of course, I loved him. I wanna share with everybody, and they'd see me coming, and say,"oh no, not another one, get out of his way." He's gonna tell you another joke here. So, uh, uh, that was wild. I like to read bios. They're inspirational. Uh, I can't think of anything right off the top of my head. Uh, probably the favorite book, and it'd be hard to pick a favorite, but probably my favorite book is one of the early ones I read was called"Smith and Other Events Tales of the Choctaw Nation." It's still available at, uh, APH or the National Library, uh, Library of Congress and their books. It was about, um, the Choctaw people in the, uh, northwest part of, uh, Canada. And just some great human interest stories and humor to it, and heartwarming. That was probably my favorite book of all time."Smith and Other Events, Tales of the Choctaw."
Sara Brown:I'll be sure to put that link in the show notes for anybody interested. You can learn, you can learn a little bit more about that book. Um, when you read, are you assigned to a full series when they come out, or are, are you just on one book and then the, the, the, the next book in the series? It's another person.
Jack Fox:It varies. Uh, most of the time, historically, if there was a series, you would read all of it, but some series are so long, uh, that, uh, a, there's a series of westerns by William W. Johnstone. He's got so many in there. I've read a bunch of t hem, but other narrators have read others too. John Polk h as read some, uh, Bruce Hunt was a narrator and read a lot of those. U h, but, uh, generally they like to, or have in the past anyway, have a person read the whole series that for continuity and, uh, uh, a nd tone and all that sort of thing. I, I think it would be a little strange to read four books of a series and then switch, uh, narrators and have a whole different approach or something. Maybe it a pproved it, I don't k now. But, uh, generally speaking, they have tried to assign the same person to t he series if they could. Although I have picked up a series before where someone was not available anymore or was not available temporarily. I've picked up some of those series, and I'm sure other people have done the same thing with me.
Sara Brown:Okay. Because, um, that's that I get it, that, you know, you wanna have that continuity or... yeah, that makes sense.
Jack Fox:Also, when we, yeah, if we pick up a book that somebody else has read, we go back and look their pronunciation list because we wanna make sure you're pronouncing names of people and towns the same way. Uh, they try to keep that continuity. There you go.
Sara Brown:That I, it's, see, those are things that, you know, as the casual person would've never, would've been, but it makes sense when you, when it's pointed out, that does. So you get invited to speak at conferences and events, and I know there's quite a fan base out there for you. What does it feel like and what does it mean to you to, to know that children and adults have grown up listening to you and are excited to meet Kind Voice?
Jack Fox:I really do. Uh, Jill and I go out together. We've done that together some, uh, but I've spoken to conferences around the country. First of all, just get it to get, uh, meet the people in person. Uh, I always enjoy that when it was on the radio, people would hear a voice, they'd meet you and say, oh, that's what you look like. They're never sure about that, you know,<laugh>. So I like to meet people, uh, go to the conferences and, uh, get feedback for one thing, find out what people like and what they don't like, but it just makes a difference. When I started in radio, I had a lady who was the owner and manager of this station, and she said, Jack, if you're reading something, get a picture in your mind of what you're reading about that will color your inflection and, uh, your emotions and things like that. So when I go out, remember, we're recording a little basement studio with no windows or anything. So when I go out to the conferences and meet people, I see faces when I'm reading, I'll, I'll remember somebody in Alabama, or somebody in Florida, or somebody in Ohio and, uh, that they like that particular author, that particular style. And that helps me. It helps cover my, uh, uh, cover my emotions and, uh, and the inflection and everything. But, uh, it just means a lot to, to meet the people. And then you do, I've met some people that said, oh, I listened to you when I was a kid and they're 50 years old, or whatever, you know, so<laugh>, that's a great feeling. But Jill and I had go out and one time, uh, her daughter Francis, who at that time was about eight or nine went with us. And that was a thrill. They even had Francis come up and say a few things. Uh, but, uh, Jill and I play well off each other. We enjoyed that
Sara Brown:<laugh>. Now, is Francis a budding narrator as well?
Jack Fox:I'm not sure. She has done some acting or some, she's appeared on some commercials and things like that. She has a great little voice. I would love that. But, uh, I don't know if she'll if she'll do that or not. I hope so.
Sara Brown:Oh man, that's too funny. Now, when you're out at conferences and interacting with fans, have you had any strange encounters?
Jack Fox:Yes. Um,<laugh> one time I was actually not at a, not a at a conference for, uh, blind people, but I was at a conference for another business conference in Atlanta. There were a bunch of people there, and I'm standing talking with somebody in conversation, and I hear this voice behind me. He said,"Jack Fox." And I turned around. I didn't know the person, and it was a young blind man. He said,"oh, I've read your books for years. I'd recognize your voice anywhere." That was great. And then there's a, another, uh, narrator named Michael McCullough. I don't think she's reading right now, but she read it for years and years ago. She was in Chicago visiting and was on a bus, took the wrong bus and was lost. She had no idea where she was on the bus. She went up to the bus driver and was asking for help and her to voice, say, Michael McCullah, I've read your books for years. So a blind person helped her get on the right bus and get back where she was going. So I thought that was a very fitting. Yeah.
Sara Brown:Now, what challenges do you face or have you faced in your job as a narrator?
Jack Fox:Uh, let's see. Um, well, first of all, it's keeping your voice in shape, uh, fighting against coals and things like that. Um, keeping our energy up for your two hour session, that's a pretty long time to sit there and read and, and stay, keep the same intensity level, uh, or, or, uh, keep your energy up that long. Uh, that takes a little, little extra effort. Uh, you have good days and bad days. Sometimes you don't feel as good going in. You have to work on that to make yourself be in the moment and, uh, capture what's happening on the page. Technology, you have to keep up with that. I've watched it go from, I did not record books when they put them on the, on the big vinyl disks. I came just right after that. But we had huge 16 inch reels we recorded on, which, uh, was a challenge when we tried to, um, do corrections because, uh, they would just market with a piece of paper in this large spool. And if you lost control, you lost of the, of the rewind, you lost all the pieces of paper. But now it's digital and much, much better. So that adapting to that technology has been, uh, not a challenge, but, uh, something we had to do. And it's worked out very well. But really just the, the energy and keeping the voice in shape and, uh, trying to get into the mood of a book are the, are the biggest challenges I would face. Well, I, when they say, when I thing about meeting people, I love it when the tours come through APH uh, tours come through regularly and, uh, if I'm aware of them and they ask us to stop, I'd love to go up and just say hi to the people and, and meet them. So if you're listening and you come through on a tour and I'm reading, say, Hey, can I meet Jack? Uh, I I'd love to do that.
Sara Brown:Oh, that's so nice. That's so nice. My final question that I always like to ask is, is there anything else you would like to say about the world of narrating being a narrator? Anything?
Jack Fox:Um, no, just that I love it. I love doing it. I love the people and I'm very proud of APH and their overall, not just the talking books, but all the tremendous services, uh, they, they provide and, and continue to research to find out how they can get all those services better. I've been very impressed with that. And, uh, people who show up for work every day with that mission and mind. So I would just say keep up the good work and I'm proud to be part of it.
Sara Brown:Oh, Jack, this is so cool. Thank you so much for joining me today on Change Makers.
Jack Fox:My pleasure. Thank you.
Sara Brown:Now we're keeping it in the family. With this next interview, I have Jill Fox here. This is Jack Fox's daughter. Hello Jill. And welcome to Change Makers.
Jill Fox:Hi. Thank you so much for having me.
Sara Brown:And do you mind just to tell listeners a little bit about yourself?
Jill Fox:Well, uh, I have been reading at the Printing House for the Blind for since 1996. I just look that up and find it. Hard to believe, but, uh, I've been there for a long time. My father is Jack Fox. Uh, my sister actually worked there for a brief time as an audiobook, uh, editor. So we like to keep it in the family. I have, um, 13 year old daughter and I live in Louisville, Kentucky.
Sara Brown:Wonderful. Yes. We just, we just heard from, um, your father Jack Fox, which was really fun. Really fun. And he brought you, he did mention you and your sister, and he even said that your, is it your daughter who has, I guess, been in a commercial or two or something too?
Jill Fox:Yes. Yeah. Yes.
Sara Brown:Was really fun. So yeah, keeping it all in the family.
Jill Fox:<laugh>, we try<laugh>. I'm afraid some of our stories are gonna overlap, so you'll just have to bear with me.
Sara Brown:That's okay. We love to hear them. So it, we're gonna hear him from your perspective. So, okay, we just talked to your dad, Jack Fox, but tell us, um, tell where have we heard your voice?
Jill Fox:Well, um, over the years I have done several local voiceover commercial type things, so that's, it's been a while since I've done much of that where you probably hear me now. Um, I work for Louisville Public Media, our public radio stations, primarily, um, WFPK, the News Channel and WUOL, the Classical Music Channel. I do, I'm sort of their staff announcer down there. I used to host a weekend edition there on WFPL. I haven't done that for a few years, but that's mostly where you'd hear me.
Sara Brown:Awesome. That's so interesting. It's always just interesting where you might hear that person's voice. So I'm gonna assume I already know how you got into narrating books?
Jill Fox:<laugh> mm-hmm.
Sara Brown:<affirmative>, but that's one of my questions. Tell us how you got into narrating books and what type of training did you go through just to prepare for that?
Jill Fox:Well, um, it was never an ambition of mine. I didn't grow up, so my dad, as you know, we moved here when he, I was about three years old and we moved here so he could work at WHAS. So he's always been in radio my whole life and I kind of took it for granted and would spend weekends going down to the station as I grew up. And then I always knew that he worked at the printing house, but, you know, when I was a kid, didn't really understand what that was or what he did. Um, when I was about 16 years old, I think he started talking about auditions there and I was spending his summer working with him, helping him out at the radio station. And I kind of started thinking maybe, maybe it would be something I could be interested in doing, but again, didn't take it too seriously. Uh, I think I actually auditioned when I was around 16. I mean, looking back, that was, there's no way I could have ever been approved. But it was a good experience just to audition and, uh, just sort of see what it was all about. And again, it kind of planted a little seed in my mind. I went away to college and I majored, I got a BFA in photography. I wasn't thinking about performance at all, although as a kid and maybe an older teen, I was interested in theater. Um, you know, I did school plays, I did summer workshops, things like that. But, um, again, never pursued it seriously. When I graduated from college, I came back home just to kind of settle and figure out what my next steps might be. I didn't really have a plan. And again, my dad said, well, they're having auditions at the printing house. Maybe you wanna think about that. So I, I did and I prepared a reading of fiction and nonfiction and I went in, and they don't do it this way now, but you used to go in and you would just sit around a table with everyone else that was going to audition that day, and you just read your pieces and the then studio director, Raymond Randall, would give you a call and tell you if they wanted you to come back in and record something there in-house to submit to N l s. And so I was one of maybe two people that day who got callbacks, and I came in and recorded some things and have been there ever since. But I never had specific formal training in narration. And it wasn't, it certainly wasn't the thing that it is now. There weren't, I know there were certainly audiobooks, but it just wasn't, it wasn't the industry that it is now.
Sara Brown:So you've been narrating, you said since 1996, right?
Jill Fox:Yes.
Sara Brown:Wow. So you've narrated quite a few over the years. Is, is there any type of character you, you've come to realize that you like to narrate in any kind that you're dislike, I wanna say that you don't like to narrate, but any types of characters you prefer to narrate?
Jill Fox:Well, I was thinking about this question, and actually I got on, um, the n l s site to just sort of remind myself, cuz I, it turns out they say that in their catalog, I have 1,446 or 49 titles now that's gotta include maybe some magazines that I've done too. But, um, of that, I don't know, it's kind of changed over time. Right now, what I enjoy, and I don't get as much of it as I used to. I like recording young adult fiction because there's just more of ari of a variety there. There tends to be more energy, more opportunities for energy, and you can just kind of have fun with characters. Um, in terms of what I like to read, um, I like, I guess historical fiction. When I think about some of the books that I've most enjoyed, that's a genre, historical fiction, I make mysteries. Again, you just have some opportunities for a little more, little more drama, I guess.
Sara Brown:And to get into that drama. Um, I, I, as I was, you know, coming up with this podcast idea, I was like,"narrating is a form of acting." I, I, I'm gonna assume that that's cut clearly for, you know, when, when you've been in your world for so long, a duh. But for me, as I'm thinking,"I'm just like, you know, this is like really another form of acting. You are using your voice," it's voice acting of course, but how do you get into character and what are some of the things that you do?
Jill Fox:Well, it's interesting, um, recording audiobooks for NLS because they, they don't want, they don't want you to act it. You're supposed to narrate, but that's completely subjective. And where's the line between acting and narrating? I try to think in terms of what I like to hear. So I listen to audiobooks quite often and, uh, just for pleasure. But I always have my ear tuned a little bit to like, oh, how is this person handling this? Um, and just general pacing and, and voice quality. Uh, so that's maybe primarily what I do is I just think about what I would like to listen to. And then in terms of characterizations, if it's, sometimes it's written very clearly in a book how someone is supposed to sound or how they look. And if it's more a question of a physical description, I try to tie it maybe to somebody I know, or if it reminds me of a character I've seen in a movie, and then I'll think about that as I'm recording or reading in that voice. Um, the same holds true for accents if you have to do accents. And over the years, NLS has kind of flipped on that, and they really don't want us, they want there to be more of a suggestion unless than a less than a full-on accent. So again, I mean, I try to anchor it to something that I know and use that as, uh, an influence, if that answers your question.
Sara Brown:Now, when you're not in the booth and you're not working, what is it that you like to do? What are some of your hobbies?
Jill Fox:Well, I have a 13 year old daughter, and I recently bought her a trampoline, so I spend a lot of time with her out on the trampoline. Um, we also like to, when I've got free time, mostly on the weekends now, I've gotten her into, um, I've always loved to take long scenic drives. So we'll do that. And I will try to find, uh, little antique shops or yard sales or flea markets that we can go to. And other than that, we, uh, I'm kind of a homebody. I like to be at home with our dog and our cat, and I like to, well, I don't know if I should say I love the work in the yard, but I've got a lot of work to do in the yard<laugh>. And so I like to like to do that when I can.
Sara Brown:Now we ask your father the same question, and I would like to hear what you have to say. What advice would you give someone who's interested in possibly pursuing, um, a career in being a narrator?
Jill Fox:Well, again, I mean, it's changed so much from when I started. I would say, um, try to lose preconceptions you have about what it means to narrate. I find some of the most irritating and cloying narration is done when somebody thinks like, this is what a narrator sounds like. I think just kind of be natural. I think, um, take classes, you know, understand the business, understand what it is, take classes if you can find them. Um, and again, try to try to find your own voice instead of thinking, you know, what you're supposed to do.
Sara Brown:You've already, you said earlier what your favorite genre was. Now what's the favorite book that you've ever narrated?
Jill Fox:Okay, so I was, that's this, that was the reason that I went back to look at the NLS catalog because I hate to say it, but quite often I, if I'm not reading the book, I've already forgotten it. You know, I mean, I'll, I'll finish a book, start a new one, and then I can't remember the book before<laugh> because a lot of the things that I read, or maybe not things that I would choose for myself, but what came to mind immediately is, and I haven't, I don't remember the last one of these that I read, but there was, um, ma the Maisie Dobb series. She's a young woman who was a nurse in World War I. She is out of nursing. The war is over and she becomes a, becomes a detective. But it's, uh, I don't know, the character did so rich and written so well. It was so easy to read. And I just connected with, connected with her right off the bat. Uh, and I don't exactly know why, but it was such a, such a joy to read. And I looked forward anytime I got one. Uh, I really looked forward to reading it. I find them very interesting and I enjoyed the characters.
Sara Brown:Okay, nice. And I'll make sure to put a link to those in the show notes for those listening that wanna connect with that series.
Jill Fox:Rosemary has something to say.
Sara Brown:<laugh> the dog agreed too.
Speaker 6:Yes. She did.
Sara Brown:All right. So are there any challenges you face in your job as a narrator?
Jill Fox:Well, um, on the lighter side,<laugh>, sometimes, uh, like I said, you don't, you're not always connecting with the material, but you're in there and you, you wanna do a good job. But sometimes I find that, uh, the rhythm, the rhythm of the book is just not mine. And I find it so frustrating and difficult to find the tone, I guess. Um, so there's that. I mean, there's, that's just the mechanics of reading. I will say that. And this, I don't get stuff like this very often, but once I had a child, it, it's very hard for me to read anything about violence against a child, you know, is never, never a picnic, but I almost can't do it anymore.
Sara Brown:Exactly. And I, and I get that a hundred percent too, you know, um, just thinking about the challenges. I think another one that, but I feel this could be for you and for me for, for a lot of people out there, AI, the rise of AI and everything that it's doing and can do, I've been seeing lately, they are recreating, um, singers voices and Yeah. Over other songs. And it sounds just like that artist and, you know, and then it's like I'm seeing things about AI on, I do the public relations, so it's AI on writing press releases and let it write it for you. And then I'm just thinking this stuff is really having the potential to put, put people out of jobs. Yeah.
Jill Fox:Yeah. Although, I mean, there's no heart and soul to AI, so I, I feel like that has to come in play at some point.
Sara Brown:I, and I, and that's the thing. Yes. But Will will, you know, will others agree?
Jill Fox:Agree? Well, it depends on how that's valued, I guess.
Sara Brown:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, there you go. Because sometimes we can see how that can be not valued so much, you know?
Jill Fox:Exactly. Bottom line is valued versus the heart. Exactly. Exactly.
Sara Brown:Right. Yes. I've been seeing a lot more of that. And that's really just becoming unnerving just as a hu as a human, but as a human in my position. So I feel like, yeah, I feel that for a lot of, a lot of positions out there, as technology starts to take the place of other of humans. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Now, um, my last question I always like to ask, do you have any final thoughts about your time as a narrator? Um, anything, any experiences you wanna share, anything like that you wanna leave with our viewers?
Jill Fox:Well, I was, um, looking over some questions that you had sent ahead, and one thing that stood out to me was you asked about maybe going to conventions or places where we get to meet the listeners. Yes, yes. And what that means to us. And I will say that is, it is so personally rewarding, but it also is such a tangible reminder of the reason that we do what we do. You know, we go into the studios at APH every day and we're down there in a basement, a windowless basement, and we're doing the job of reading these things. And sometimes with certain books, certainly you're thinking about pronunciation and you're thinking about consistency and you're thinking about the mechanics of it, and you lose sight of the reason that you're doing it. And I just have to say that, um, going and seeing people and meeting people is such a reminder that what, it's such a privilege to be able to do the job that I do, and I'm so grateful.
Sara Brown:That's awesome. And your dad did mention how you, you and him have gone to conventions and, and, um, people just go nuts over both of you all. And there's been some instances where he said, um, that a na, I guess, I don't know if it was him, but it was a na another well-known narrator kind of got a little lost traveling and it was another blind or low vision individual, or excuse me. And it was another individual who was blind or low vision that provided assistance to them because they knew their voice, they heard their voice<laugh>. And I've always imagined how crazy would it be, you know, if you're calling, I don't know if you're on support, on hold with customer support, and you hear the little, you know, voice talking back to you and you're like, that's that's me.<laugh><laugh>. You know, that's always such a weird, that, that always feels like it would be such a weird feeling. I have no idea. But that's super cool. Yeah. But, um, yeah. Jill, I would like to thank you so much for coming on today and talking to me on Change Makers.
Jill Fox:Well, thank you again for having me.
Sara Brown:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Change Makers. I hope you all enjoyed this episode. This was a really fun one. I put links in the show notes to the APH Studio, the National Library Service for the Blind, and Print Disabled in the favorite books mentioned during the interviews. Also, if you have any topics you would like to hear for future podcasts, just email Communications@aph.org, communications@aph.org. Again, thank you so much for listening and as always, be sure to look for ways you can be a change maker this week.