New Guide Dog, New Partnership

On this episode, we explore the remarkable and personal journey of receiving a new guide dog, a process that goes far beyond simply picking up a companion. Gain insight into what happens for the dog and partner, the intensive training both undergo, and the emotional transition that comes with building trust and teamwork.

On this podcast

• Narrator
• Sara Brown, APH Public Relations Manager
• Danielle Burton, APH Accessibility Editor

Additional Links

• Guide Dogs for the Blind
• Guide Dogs of America
• America's VetDogs
• The Seeing Eye

Transcript

Narrator: 0:00

Welcome to Changemakers, a podcast from APH. We're talking to people from around the world who are creating positive change in the lives of people who are blind or have low vision. Here's your host.

Sara Brown: 0:15

Hello and welcome to Changemakers. I'm APH's public relations manager, Sarah Brown, and on today's episode, we're diving into the incredible journey of receiving a new guide dog. It's quite an experience that involves far more than just visiting a facility and bringing a guide dog home. Joining us is APH's Danielle Burton. She's the communications accessibility editor. And she's been on a few podcasts in the past. She was recently matched with her third guide dog, Chestnut. She'll take us behind the scenes of that process from training to bonding and share what it truly means to build trust and independence with a new partner by your side. Hello, Danielle, and welcome to Changemakers. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm doing well and I'm really excited to hear your story about this guide dog experience. But before we get into that, do you mind to just introduce yourself to our listeners? You've been on here a few times before, but in case someone missed it, let our listeners know who you are and what it is that you do at APH.

Danielle Burton: 1:19

My name is Danielle Burton, and I identify as Deaf Blind. I have been at APH since 2023. My current role is Communications Accessibility Editor. So in a nutshell, I made sure all the documents and website is accessible internally and also externally.

Sara Brown: 1:41

And can you tell us about a little bit more about your journey with deafblindness and when did you consider getting a guide dog?

Danielle Burton: 1:52

So I was born deafblind. I currently have no vision and I use two hearing aids, one in each year. I have a more of a, I guess it's a moderate hearing loss. I said mod to moderate for so many years, but it's more on a moderate side these days. And I grew up, I grew up primarily oral and learned American Sign Language later in life. As far as guide dogs, I from the time I was a young child, I loved dogs. I was, you know, I bed my parents for a house dog. I wanted a dog. I was the only child, so you know, parents caved and got me a pet dog. And, you know, I knew I had to be at least 16 to apply. You know, my friends were waiting on a driver's license. I was waiting until I was old enough to apply for a guide dog. So I think I think that probably really helped where, you know, oh, you get everybody's getting their license, and I was waiting on that. Oh, I am allowed to apply now. So I applied my for my first dog in my senior year of high school, and I received my first dog when I was 20.

Sara Brown: 3:21

And what was that dog's name?

Danielle Burton: 3:23

Her name was Willa, W-I-L-L-A. Willa. She was a 62-pound yellow lab from uh Guiding Eyes for the Blind.

Sara Brown: 3:34

Now, if this is your first guide dog experience versus your newest guide dog, which you so how many have you had in the past or since then?

Danielle Burton: 3:44

So I am currently working with my third guide dog. Um I feel like I'm starting to feel old when you start, you know, the numbers of guide dogs you have keep getting up there. So uh I'm on dog number three. And um I think by the time you get to dog number three, there's nothing like your first dog. I, you know, your first dog is always super special in a lot of ways. But you know, by the time you get to dog number three, uh you still have to do a lot of work, but at the same time, you've already seen a lot in your career of working with guide dogs, so in some ways it's easier in that regard.

Sara Brown: 4:29

So tell me more about Willa. What was it like when you got your very, very first guy dog? Was it like, whoo, you know, I've got this this this you've been budded up with this guy dog that's gonna sort of help you navigate the world? What was the feeling like?

Danielle Burton: 4:44

I feel like for me, um, it was extremely exciting. It was also very overwhelming in that there were so many things to learn. Uh, you know, you're learning how to give the commands, you're learning how to um move with a dog. Um, I and I did have some trouble, you know, learning how to follow my dog. I think we changed harness handles about three or four times when I was in class. And the instructor came home with me and worked with me for four or five days on my college campus. And I think that was really, really helpful. And at that time, I really did need that. And I really, you know, the first six months with her, I would I did struggle. I I got turned around. My first day at college with her, it was raining, and that day was awful. And I went back to my dorm and cried.

Sara Brown: 5:44

Oh, you know, that's the your first dog, so it's almost like, you know, everything's getting thrown at you, and it's your learning, and you know, this is a whole new world. How did you adjust to that, to having your guide dog? I know you said you had, you know, your pet chihuahua, so you've been around animals and everything, but having your first guide dog, how did you, you know, I know the house, your your your house has to be prepared. Talk about how you made those preparations for your first guide dog.

Danielle Burton: 6:13

So from um, you know, when I got my first dog, I was living at home with my parents. And so, you know, there was a lot of rules involved of, you know, people not interacting with my dog or playing with the new dog. Um, you know, my because it was my first dog, my instructor came home with us and she actually helped us with the introduction, uh, doggy introductions. Because my pet dog was actually kind of older. He was like 10 at the time. And so we wanted those introductions to go smoothly. And it it went really well. I I feel like I had a good support system. My parents were, you know, 100% on board. I think it would be really hard if you don't have a strong support system in your immediate home.

Sara Brown: 7:09

Now, talk about Willow's in her retirement. What were the signs with her that made you realize, you know, that she was on she was aging out of a working service dog?

Danielle Burton: 7:21

So I don't know what happened, but when I was away in New York, um, I went to New York for training at the Helen Keller National Center for Deaf Blind. And while I was there, um it was like one day we were walking and to just, you know, I was sitting in my apartment and she wouldn't jump on my bed. Um I'm gonna preface this by saying, uh, not every handle we lost their dog on the bed. Um, that's a personal preface. But, you know, for me, I I always did. And you know, she wouldn't jump on the bed. And I'm like, there's something wrong with this dog. And, you know, I messaged a trainer, and you know, she was like, she was fine, she doesn't look like she's limping, but I kept on it, and I went to took her to the bet, and sure enough, she I don't know, there was like an injury or something, like her back and something was hurting her. So they gave her medicine and she was off work for a week, and then she was fine for a while, but then she just really started limping while guiding. Um, she was about seven or eight, and I I guess she was about eight, and she really started limping while guiding and slowing down, and then you know, that was kind of going on, and I had reapplied to guiding ice and was on the waiting, you know, was kind of on the waiting list. And she uh COVID happened. When COVID happened, we were home for months, and honestly, I think that kind of sped the process up a little bit more than maybe if we had still been, you know, out and about. But you know, it took her back to college, you know, that fall semester in 2020, and it was just really hard. She got to where she was stopping on the sidewalks, and I called guiding nice, and the trainer came out, and we tried to walk home from a building back to my dorm, and she pretty much stopped on the sidewalk, and the trainer just healed had guided me home with her on leash.

Sara Brown: 9:26

So, was that when a dog is aging out of a service dog, are they just not guiding? Are they just reverting back to being a dog and wanting to play and jump and run? Or is it more of a physical aspect where they're not people?

Danielle Burton: 9:43

It depends. Um, for Rilla. Um you know, she retired, you know, my parents kept her, and when she had arthritis, she was not jumping and running and playing. Um she she just physically, you know, she had days where she felt good and felt like, you know, running and jumping and playing just a little tiny bit, but she really just physically wasn't able. And it was really hard at home because I would come home and my bedroom was upstairs. And she got to where she was standing at the bottom of the stairs and bark because she wanted me, but she couldn't get up the stairs anymore. It just hurt her too much.

Sara Brown: 10:22

Oh goodness, oh goodness. So when you saw that the signs were there and that you would be needing a new guide dog, did you go ahead and contact? You know, you said was it seeing I or or guide dogs for the blind? Did you go on and contact an organization ahead of time? Or did you have to wait before Willa took that unfortunate turn?

Danielle Burton: 10:42

Um, I had already reapplied because of the wait times. Um, and then as Willa was retiring, I think that summer, yeah, I guess it was summer of 2020. I knew it was getting close, and I I didn't think didn't know if she would make it through the semester or not. Um, she kind of did. Uh may she made it to her that May of 2021, but I kind of worked her kind of every other day kind of deal or whenever she felt like it. But I applied, but I also applied to C and I. Um, just because the wait times with COVID was so long for guide dog schools. I was kind of in that process of trying to see how fast I could get a dog.

Sara Brown: 11:32

Okay, and so now you've getting you've gotten a new your second guide dog. Yes. That one was violet. Yes. Now talk about getting talk about the process and getting violet.

Danielle Burton: 11:46

Violet was definitely interesting. Um, my you know, I, you know, I got accepted to the C and I and I, you know, just because C and I found a dog a little bit suited, I switched to C and I and I went for training in 2021. Viber was kind of a handful even then. Um so the training experience was very different because it was a different school and different training methods and definitely a lot more work. Um, was very tired. And Violet, you know, she actually almost didn't make it as a guide because as my guide, she was so attached to the trainer that she wouldn't actually guide. She was so worried about looking, you know, seeing what my instructor was doing. And it but so the first three walks with her, she was pretty much not guiding. We were like begging for every step. And so the the Friday after I got her, the training manager took me and her out, and she went from not guiding to basically running the route with me and to so that was very interesting, but I did work her for four years. Her guide work uh, you know, overall in those four years have been absolutely amazing.

Sara Brown: 13:22

Yeah, I've seen our I remember Violet, um, sweet dog, afraid of thunderstorms. Yes, yes, and so now that Violet has aged out, you've gotten your latest dog. Talk about Chestnut.

Danielle Burton: 13:37

So Chestnut is uh almost two, she'll be two uh on November 11th, so she's a Veterans Day baby, which is kind of cool, and um Chestnut is definitely a puppy out of harness, so that's been an interesting adjustment for me because both Willa and Viber were almost three years old when I got them, and Chestnut is almost two, so she's my first dog that I've gotten at what we tend to call the normal age that people get guy dogs. So this has been a uh interesting thing, especially in the home. As far as her training goes, you know, my first walk with her compared to Violet was like night and day. I immediately knew I made the right choice when I took my first walk with chestnut.

Sara Brown: 14:33

Now I spoke with you because you just you've only had chestnut what for just a few months, correct?

Danielle Burton: 14:39

Yes, I met Chestnut on September 3rd. So what are we on? So I've known her bareway for two months.

Sara Brown: 14:51

And I spoke with you during that time. Detail the process of when you went because you had to go to where New Jersey. Yes. Okay, so you had to go to New Jersey. Talk about the first time you met Chestnut and all the different um tasks and and things that they they the scene I made you and Chestnut do was and uh because I'm assuming that's to make sure you two are are a match. Just detail some of that because I've spoken with you and it was a lot.

Danielle Burton: 15:20

Yeah, I'm sure I I I feel like I was uh running in 20 directions and hardly knew my name. But anyway, um, so the C and I, you know, if you go there for your first guide dog, you stay for 25 days in Morristown, New Jersey. If you're there for a saucer dog, it's 18 days. So I only had to stay for 18 days. And you know, when you get there, you you get there on a Monday, and then you get your dog on that Wednesday. So the first couple of days you get to know your instructor, make sure you get comfortable walking around the building and you know your way around the building, you know your way around the dorm and how to get to the dining hall and all of that. And that's important. And I I know people get a little in the way than I get in the way because I'm like, I'm ready for my dog. But um, the first few days you do that, and you go into town on Tuesday, and you do what they call genome walks with the instructor downtown. So you walk, you know, that's where the instructor holds the harness handle, and um you give them the commands like they like you would your dog. And this is so that they can make sure that they're making that final match um with you know, the pace, the pull. And then they also have you practice leash correction so that they know so that way they give you a dog that you can handle and um control easily. Um, everybody has a different level. And so on dog day, um, I'm pretty sure that's the only time it time. Uh dog day is the day, probably first and only days that I ever wake up wide awake uh at 6 a.m. Everybody's awake. And so dog day, you know, you have breakfast, you eat, and then they make you sit through a couple of lectures. And really the lectures are they're doing that because the kennel stuff has to give the dogs baths and get them all ready to be issued to you. And then you are and then you go to your room, and the instructor will bring you your dog and introduce you to your dog and give a bit of a description of what they look like, and then they kind of just leave you alone. They they're out, they they're kind of in and out. Here's your dog, this is your dog, and you know, this is what they look like, and then they leave you and you clip your leash on and spend time. So you spend them, you know, probably 30, 40 minutes just sitting on the floor with them, petting them, talking to them, showing them the room, all of that stuff.

Sara Brown: 18:07

Now, did they send you out into the city or to various parts just to sort of test your navigation, the navigational aspect for your guide dog?

Danielle Burton: 18:16

So, what they do, um your first walk, you and that afternoon, you go, you know, everybody loads up, you hear the dodge, you unleash, and you load up into the van. So you you're not allowed to work them yet. And we go downtown and they take you out on a bout, and the instructor will clip their their leash also. So you have your leash attached to the dog, and you have the harness handle, and then the instructor will attach their leash so that they can help manage the dog. So the first walk, they want they want you to look like the best thing ever to the dog. So we don't do any of the correction, we don't do any of that. We kind of, you know, we give them the commands and tell them how good they are when they move and you know, stop at the curves and praise them. And uh we we kind of do all the fun stuff on the first walk, and then um, and then the instructors will make sure the dogs do what they're supposed to do with their support leash. Uh I was told that my instructor only had to stop my dog once on that initial walk from making a not great decision. So that's always exciting to hear about.

Sara Brown: 19:33

Now I know those were some long days. What other tasks or activities were you doing as you, you know, got to know your dog? Because 18 days, that's a long time to, you know, get out of the day.

Danielle Burton: 19:45

Yeah. Um, so you go on two walks a day, you do or two trips a day after you finish your route. So you the first few days you do like you you do a route. So you do like the first route is on the soft paper route. So in the morning and afternoon, you're doing the doing this route, it's a giant rectangle. You do that four times total, and then the fifth time you solo it, and that means that um the instructor is there with you, but they don't really intervene unless it's a safety issue, and they, you know, you problem solve your with your dog, um, and just kind of you know work out things on their own. Like if they get distracted, you correct them and you know, as much as possible independently. And then the second week you start the album street route and you do that one four times, and then solo it. Um that's a whole other story. You'll probably want to ask me about that solo later. But generally, you do two trips a day, and then the first week and a half or so, you probably have one to two lunchers a day, in addition to you know, three meals a day. They feed you three meals a day, and you had to start working your dog to all the meals, and then you have to work your dog all the you know out to take them at the party every you know, four or five times a day. And yeah, so you're not done until you start they wake you up at 5:30 and you're not done until 8 p.m.

Sara Brown: 21:14

Long days, long days. Now, I do want to hear about this solo. I feel like I might have had to talk to you about something else during that time, and I could tell you were free you were frazzled. But share, share us more about that, your solo outing.

Danielle Burton: 21:30

So that particular route's complicated, and I don't usually travel that level of complicated around Louvo. I'm mostly running around Frankfurt Avenue and back through in Barnstown. Uh, this route, the best, the nicest way to describe it is like a slice of pizza on a stick. And that's about as I mean, that's the only way I can give you some kind of visual description of what it might look like. And there's also a traffic circle around about in this route as well, and it's also up a giant hill. Um, and I I had the streets memorized, you know. I mean, it's so bad they have an acronym for remembering all the streets because nobody can remember their streets. And I used to tautram out, but when I did my solo, I think all the days I practiced it, it was sunny out. And then it came time for the solo and it was rainy and drizzly. And I think I was using the sun a lot for kind of knowing where I was, and I didn't have that, so I took my instructor kind of uh down a wrong turn. I was like, oh, she's like, oh, are we uh going somewhere else? I'm like, uh apparently we are. So I I did the solo, I passed it, but I'm pretty sure I pretty faked my way through that one. And I just walked and pretended like I was all carpeted.

Sara Brown: 23:05

So now on all of these outings, you always had somebody with you.

Danielle Burton: 23:11

Yes, I had the instructor would walk behind us, and as grant, you know, in the very beginning, they, you know, they'll say, Okay, uh, move with your daughter. She's trying to take you around this, or she's trying to take you around these tables, move with her. Or she'll say something like um there, you know, there's a big dip in the sidewalk. Make sure you pick your feet up. Um, I tripped a few, I tripped on one of them, and uh Chestnut learned really quick to pause it a few of the really bad spots because I stumbled. And then and then also on the route routes, they have an instructor assistant out or one of the apprentice instructors are out, and they will have a another dog that they they will have a dog with them on leash and will uh try to distract your dog. So in the middle of all these routes, you have a dog distraction that you know is coming. Um, and then you also have a traffic check where the class manager will uh cut you off with one of their vehicles. And then you also have what they call the barricade, and they set that up on the sidewalk where it completely blocks the sidewalk. So you have to go into the street, follow the left edge of the street, and then get back on the sidewalk.

Sara Brown: 24:38

All that sounds very stressful, Danielle. All that sounds stressful and nerve-wracking. Yes, yeah, yeah, it kind of is. And you and Violet, and you and Chestnut did you all did it. Yes. Oh, you all did it. Now, when they're partnering you with a with your dog, they're they're they're looking at your height, your your gait, your walking speed, all the things, correct? Yeah, they're looking.

Danielle Burton: 25:04

Now I was told, despite my short size, I was told that chestnut was not considered for me based on size, um, which I was surprised. But she is a very small dog and definitely my size. They do look at walking speed, uh, pace, and how much pull you need in a dog. You know, some people need a strong pull, some people need a lighter pull. I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle.

Sara Brown: 25:31

Um, but that's interesting. Okay, so that was the you and when you got there, that was there was there was only one dog that they partnered you with, which was Chestnut, right?

Danielle Burton: 25:43

Yes, but usually not always, but a lot of times when they call you into class, they try to have a couple of dogs in mind for you. Oh, and then they don't like they didn't make the final decision until Tuesday night.

Sara Brown: 25:59

So if they partnered you with one dog and it's like this dog is way too little or she walks slower than we thought, you know, swap that one out and try this one.

Danielle Burton: 26:07

Yeah, yeah. I almost had to do a dog switch when I got via it. Like, if she hadn't pulled out that last morning, they were actually gonna do a dog switch. So um, she she decided at the last minute that she wanted to do the thing.

Sara Brown: 26:24

Okay. So you've gotten you've got chestnut, you're leaving C and I, and you're coming home. How was the trip home?

Danielle Burton: 26:33

Um the trip home was interesting. Um because this is the first time the dogs ever fly on an airplane is with us, and so you never know what they're gonna do. And the first flight, um, she kind of did freak out a bit. And I thought, oh no, here we go. So the first flight, you know, I was giving her treats, I was giving her, you know, real milk bones and all the all the things, and she really had her head in my lap. She was not too thrilled. The second plane, because I I had a layover in Atlanta, so the second plane, she actually um slept through the whole flight. I'm like, okay, so I guess she kind of decided it wasn't as scary as she originally thought. So she she saw it through that flight and didn't seem to be too uh stressed out about it. Um, but getting getting from my plane to my next gate in Atlanta, I had like 20 minutes and they didn't have a person to come meet me. So I walked off one plane a minute and walked straight on another plane, barely made it.

Sara Brown: 27:49

Danielle, I will say I've been in the Atlantis airport. Yeah, we all need people to help us get to our gates there because that airport is a massive maze. Yeah. It is, it is. So now that you're home, how has been how was bringing Chestnut home and having her interact with Violet and in your house?

Danielle Burton: 28:10

So it was actually went really well. Um my husband came and got me from the airport, and you know, I got we got home and I let Chestnut, you know, relieve herself and all of that. And then we brought Violet out unleashed. So he had Violet and I had Chestnut, and they met and loved with each other, and you know, got and then we all went inside together. And um very the introduction was you know, that introduction went quite well. Um, you know, we kept Violet, he kept Violet unleashed for the first few hours just to keep everybody kind of chilled out and settled. And, you know, I kept Chestnut unleashed for quite a while after I got her home, like several days, like probably the first week and a half or so. I kept her on leash in the house. So she didn't get to just come in and run around. And I also have a cat who is a few months younger than Chestnut at Shory. So that that was more the fun introduction. Um Chestnut now wants to corner the cat, so we you know, and and usually telling her to leave my cat alone.

Sara Brown: 29:25

My goodness. Sounds like you got a lot going on over there. Now, with with Chestnut and walking to work, how has that been?

Danielle Burton: 29:34

Uh that has been interesting in that you know she's she's picked up the routes pretty quickly. Um, you know, we've had you know, we didn't have as much new dog issues in class, but she's you know testing things, she doesn't know the area. So, like, you know, I had to teach her, you know, one of the streets I cross doesn't have a crosswalk. So, you know, when I put She kind of tried to run the street, and I had to teach her that we had to stop at Arlington. And you know, not we don't just stop at Frankfurt and stayed in Pope, but you know, we have to stop at Arlington too. So now she's starting to figure out that um a lot of the truncated, she might should probably stop because not all of the streets here have a uh crosswalk. So she she figured that out. And then, you know, we you know, we're working on her finding the hole for the Audible pedestrian signal, but she's doing pretty well. And the dogs know how to do it all through Morris Town, but you know, it's transferring those same skills over to a new area, which takes practice. Um, and she knows how to find the door to APH now, but it's been but it took a lot of repetition and you know, practicing her streetcasts and practice lining up. Part of it was me more so than her, um, because I used I got used to Violet just crossing and seeing my terrible alignment because I'm deaf. So I was really, you know, had to get a bit more helped with getting my stuff lined up to set her up for for success in the crossing.

Sara Brown: 31:24

Now, explain that a little bit more. Is it because you're you were angled at a certain angle? So that way.

Danielle Burton: 31:31

Yeah, so dots are good where your shoulders are facing. I mean, that's just how dogs go. And you know, you're in a new environment that the dog doesn't know. So if I'm turned bomb, you know, the dog thinks, oh, well, she probably knows where she needs to go, and then they'll go, which caused a bit of viewing, and which is a common thing. And it does happen where sometimes the dogs were viewing intersection. Um, and I called the CNI for support, and they talked me through some strategies over the phone uh and how to help correct that issue. And I I am on the list for a visit uh anyway from them, but you know, they have a lot of graduates and a lot of graduates all over the country. So I'm waiting on my visit, but I'm not, you know, I'm not urgently needing a visit, but it would be nice to have them come out now.

Sara Brown: 32:27

Between Violet and Chestnut, are there any noticeable differences between your training and your experience with with is there anything drastically different?

Danielle Burton: 32:38

Um not not in the actual training part, um, but there's a difference in how each dog guides and what each dog needs from me. And you know, like Viola, like one example is, you know, when I would get to curbs and since Violet didn't mind to be petted for reward. You know, she would like an ear scratch with the curb or something like that. Chessna in harness doesn't really like you to touch her. Um, she doesn't even like me to touch her. She sits, you know, you tell her to sit in harness, she sits way over there because she doesn't really want to be touched while she's in harness. Um and that's been an adjustment of for me because my instinct is, you know, you, you know, okay, you stop at the curb and I got used to reaching over and giving an ear scratch or something. But, you know, Chestnut's like, no. Um, she will take a chin scratch for like if she walks past, if she walks past a dog that was kind of distracting to her, she will accept the chin scratch and wagger tail or whatever, but you have to put the harness handle down before she accepts it, and then she'll wag her tail at you, and then she's like, Okay, let's go. Yeah. And I so that's been very fascinating to get used to. I I bet, you know, trying to give a chin scratch. Some it might have been at a crib or it might have been at APH door, and she just looked at me like I didn't deserve that yet. Like, okay.

Sara Brown: 34:09

Now, are you two, are you two feeling like a true team, or are you still getting to that point?

Danielle Burton: 34:16

Um, I think we're still getting to that point. Um, I I think we're well on her way to feeling that way. Um, you know, she does really good guide work. I, you know, threw her into three conferences in within two weeks and you know, got to see how she handled all of that chaos. She handled it quite quite well actually. Um, probably better than the human did, to be honest.

Sara Brown: 34:45

Now, are there any goals or adventures and milestones you're excited to tackle with Chestnut?

Danielle Burton: 34:50

Um, I and well, probably later we have to work this in. I'm pointing on uh trying a bit of hiking with her. Um we haven't quite tried that. We did a little trail uh um at the CNI as our very last trip, we did like a little trail thing. Um, but I think we're gonna try a little bit of I think we're gonna go over to Eric, whatever it's called, Eric West Park, and you know, see how that goes and start introducing her to uh little bit of hiking.

Sara Brown: 35:28

Okay, so you're gonna introduce her to a bit of nature. Nice, nice. Well, now if if there's anyone out there listening that is blind or low-vision or knows someone who is, and they're thinking about getting a guide dog, what would you say to them?

Danielle Burton: 35:43

I would say, you know, do your homework. You know, everybody's gonna tell you that their guide dog school is the best. Um, and it is for them. Uh, but you know, we have a lot of options here. We have a lot of guide dog schools, and all of them, you know, serve different needs and have different programs and have different strengths and weaknesses. So do your homework. It's like picking a college, but you know, you're also picking a life, you know, hopefully a dog that you'll work for 10 years. So it's a big investment. Um, and I would also say, you know, make sure you're comfortable traveling independently. And the more orientation skills you have, the better you are with adjusting to working with a guide dog because it is very different from using a cane. And you don't get as much tactile feedback as you would using a cane as you do a dog. So I would definitely think of that, and just really think about those kind of things and understand that you're not just gonna get this dog and go home and cross the busiest street in your city just because um, you know, you gotta start slowly, you gotta introduce them and teach them your area and teach them what you want. So they're not, you know, you don't just get a dog and they magically do all the things. Um, chestnut does not do very well at following my husband yet. And um, I got a little bit used to Virip following every step he takes. So it's been, you know, things like that. You you know, it takes six months to a year to really form and so would if I am.

Sara Brown: 37:34

Okay, well, now knowing that we'll have to check in about another six months to a year. Yes, see about it. I'm officially a team now, didn't you?

Danielle Burton: 37:43

Yeah, see if we survive. If you survive the first year, you're probably gonna be fine.

Sara Brown: 37:49

Um now, before I let you go, Danielle, is there anything else you would like to share about your experience or about chestnut? Anything?

Danielle Burton: 37:57

Um, I I think you know, overall my experience was great. You know, it was a lot of work. Um, I was very tired. Um, you know, I I do not recommend uh doing what I did and trying to also do work and try to do training. Don't do that if you can. Um you might regret that decision, but definitely, you know, if you want a guide dog and you feel what's right for you, just take the plunge. And yeah, it's a step into the unknown at times, and it can be a rubber coaster, but it's a rubber coaster. I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't go back.

Sara Brown: 38:44

Wonderful, Danielle. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to join me on Changemakers. No problem. And before I let you go, did you know that there were multiple places that one can secure a guide dog? Some places include guide dogs for the blind, guide dogs of America, the seeing eye, or Americans' vet dogs. These organizations typically require those applying to be legally blind or demonstrate the need for a guide dog. And the application process might include an evaluation of mobility skills, interviews, references, and much more. I've put links in the show notes to those organizations for anyone out there wanting more information. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of ChangeMakers. I hope you have enjoyed it and learned something about what goes into securing a guide dog. As always, be sure to look for ways you can be a change maker this week.