Influencers - Week 2

Dina, Pastor Seth, and Chad continue the Influencers series by looking at Peter’s story of failure and restoration. They explore how integrity, honesty, and grace shape real influence—reminding us that our “worst chapters” don’t disqualify us, but can become part of how God works through us.

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Transcript

Welcome And March Madness Banter

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our message series and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dina Newsom, and I've got some fabulous men with me here.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Best intro ever. So you know what's funny is I listened to the last two weeks podcast just to hear how the introductions are going to happen because we always end up getting like the we've got the meh guests for today. Would you like to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_02 0:33

I would love to introduce myself. I'm Chad Kelly. I oversee the student ministry here at King of Kings. In a fantastic kind of way. In a fantastic way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Fabulous. Fabulous. Fabulous.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Fabastical. Fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Fantastical.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Fantabulous. How many more adjectives can we mesh together? Those were amazing.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

A super caliphragilistic way.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Expial dociousness. Dodousness. Dosciousness. I don't know. I'm Seth. I get to be the chemistructor here at Millard, and apparently uh captain of Alphabet Soup.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

What a title. The fabulous captain.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah. All right. So it's a it's a crazy time of year, you guys. It's March Madness. So my question for you is are you a like a are you a bracket maker? And if so, how's your bracket doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

I I love sports. I am very inconsistent with my love of sports. But when it comes to March Madness, it's like my one time for a few weeks to just lock in, be all about it, learn all the stats, get to decide who's gonna win, what's the biggest upsets, what are you, what's gonna happen. Um, so I did make a few brackets. I'm notorious for making like a lot of brackets just because I think on the off chance that one of them actually is the real good one. But of course, I only put one or two in a few groups. Uh but I think right now I just checked like 10 minutes ago. Um, I am at 90% accurate. Oh is it the King of Kings bracket? It's not. I was gonna say that one I'm like low 80s, so not terrible. I think I'm in sixth place in the King of Kings staff bracket.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

So there were a ton of upsets this year. Oh, yeah, like very unexpected upsets. Um, I'm not usually a big uh March Madness person, to be honest. Um, I I watch basketball, it's okay, but it's really not my sport. But I did for the first time in I don't know how many years actually fill out a bracket for the King of Kings uh staff.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

We do a little staff challenge here. We do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Uh since this is not my jam, I think I'm right now in like 12th place or some very high ranking. It might even be lower at this point. Um, so my goal was just to look at the schools and which ones were higher rank. I did that. And then if they had some kind of theology department that I was aware of and they stunk, I would just pick them to lose.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

So Nebraska, how did Nebraska do it in your mind? Yeah, I don't even know. I'm unaware of their theology.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

So it's just based off of ranking. There you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Um, I love March Madness. Like I am, I am a mediocre basketball fan. I like the sport of basketball. All three of my kids played basketball. Love watching them, love watching high school games. Not a huge fan of one particular team, college or pro, but love March Madness. I just love the excitement of there's a start and an end to the bracket. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Um we do a family challenge. My son-in-law started um six years ago, maybe, where um we all submit a bracket and the winner gets their name on a trophy that he keeps in his house. And out of yeah, he can't. No, it's not traveling. He keeps it, but you get a little nameplate when you win. Wow. And out of the five or six years that there are plates on there, two of them are mine. I just might be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Congratulations. Yeah. That's uh fabulous, actually. Fantabulous.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Fanta could be that too. Calafragilistic is.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Well, I love where it manages because it's it's yeah, you're right. It's short term. Fantasy football gets so drawn out for me. I get two weeks in, I'm like, I don't want to look at my players anymore. I'll I'll check. Someone will text me like, hey, Chad, you have five of your players that are out.

unknown 4:00

Like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Thanks for letting me know.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Your entire entire starting lineup is on by. Right, right. No, exactly. You're that guy all the time. Oh yeah, but somehow I end up in the championship and it doesn't make any sense. Wow. We're yeah, not very serious leagues over here. Got auto-drafted. Yeah, it's exactly who I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

It's a lot of fun. I enjoy it. We are influenced by the sports excitement of the March Madness.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Do we influence sports?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Oh, or are we influenced by them?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Or both.

The Cost Of Influence

SPEAKER_00 4:34

I don't know. But this week we had week two of our influencer series that Pastor Zach Zender has taken us through. This week we talked about the cost of influence. What are you guys taking beyond Sunday from this message? The wheels are turning.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah, we'll I'll dive into it more later, but just that idea of anything that's good in life is hard. And the the the best things in life take a lot of of hardship and take some some sacrifice to dive into.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Yeah, I think kind of connecting with that as well. And again, we'll probably get into a little bit more of this conversation as well with Peter, but the things that you stand the most firmly upon generally are those things that are going to test your integrity the most. And, you know, time after time, I've seen that happen. I've seen myself fail at it. I've seen myself succeed at it. And it really is a matter of after you fail, not when like if, but when you fail. What does that next step look like? Does it look like restoration or does it look like wallowing in self-pity and self-destruction? And I think it's great to learn from the story of Peter.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I love Peter. I was talking about Peter in my office the other day, and someone thought I was talking about Peter Bay when I was talking about Peter from the Bible. And I was talking about how how um like simpleton and mediocre Peter is. Like that's why he's so relatable. And they were like, What?

SPEAKER_03 5:58

All right. Well, that's on that person. It's not on you.

Highlight Reel Vs Real Life

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Anyway, um I really this week again, I really like Zach's definition of talking about he he's kind of using this phrase throughout the series. I will influence the world more than I will be influenced by it. I guess that's not a definition, more like a statement to check yourself. Um, and that spoke to me again this week, where I'm like constantly, okay, what in what I'm doing, am I influencing the more the world more than I'm being influenced by it? Okay, so one of the things that Zach talks about is the difference between your highlight reel and then your actual reel. What are your thoughts on how these different parts of ourselves work?

SPEAKER_03 6:41

All right. So it is the like most on display uh hypocritical part of us, I think. Because when we compare ourselves, we we compare other people's highlight reel to their like to our backstage pass, right? So we're like, oh man, that person's actually terrible behind the scenes, and we want to bring them down because we see all of their highlights. But when someone comes to you and does the exact same thing, you're like, no, no, no, no, no. You can't hold me to that height of a standard. Uh, you know, I'm not that great. Why, why? Because that's what you put online. Uh, that's the person that you present yourself to everybody else as this awesome person. It's kind of a big hypocritical move. Uh, that it's okay for me to put other people up and compare them, but what the moment you try to compare me to other people, I I'm gonna I want to temper that expectation. And so uh I just think the highlight reel and kind of like the backstage view is something that it's it's such a hard struggle for us, but it's so real. Right.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

You know, I I never thought about how when you meet new people, you share your highlight reel. You share what you've done, where you went to school, what what degree you have, what your position is, why you've been able to get to where you're at today, but you don't share like the oh yeah, like I had I had a rough week last week. And I think that's where the real depth can happen. And it's this isn't a series on on like relationships on brotherhood, but it but it comes down to that that the depth is in the hard conversations, the depth is in the hard uh steps towards the the right goal. And yeah, it like convicted me to when someone says, How are you? Just like good, how are you? Or we were it's a some uh the some of this weekend, and someone was like, It was they were at a desk and they said, Hey, like have fun at the place you're going to. I was like, Oh, thanks, me too. Like it was just like a natural thing that's like at your desk, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Exactly. Enjoy Excel. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

So much fun. But like, why why do we do that? Why do we initially just give our highlight reel of oh yeah, you have a good day too, or something, something as simple as that? Like, what's what's happened in our brain to go straight to the highlights versus sitting in some of the hard parts, and like Zach said, that's what grows you the most.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

I wonder if it's a self-defense mechanism, as in like, I don't know if I can be vulnerable enough with you yet. So I'm gonna share the things that you're gonna be the least likely to attack.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah. I don't know. It's like at some point, like, why not share the deep stuff? And then if they if it backfires, you know, you won't go back to them. But it but you're right, it is a natural occurrence if you start with the really simple and easy stuff to accept, and then you walk down the harder stuff. But what could it look like? I I imagine our relationships would be much deeper and much stronger if we started like one of my best friends in college. The first time we ever met, I was playing pool in the Concordia, Texas. Is this the best friend story? Uh the best. What do you mean by the best friend?

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Well, you told the story where you were like, the moment that I met him, he's like, You're gonna be my best friend. Nope, different different friends. Uh I have some awesome friends. Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

No, he he similar boldness. He comes up to me, he goes, We were talking, and he like one of the first questions he asked was, What's the worst thing you've ever done? I was like, What do you want? Tried to answer this question. I was like, I was like, Am I honest right now? It was kind of a check, like, dang, this guy wants to. I'm just kidding, I'm just getting like and I I answered the question, and and we're he was in my wedding, and like we're we're really, really good friends to this day. And like it it shows if someone wants to actually go deep and be a good friendship, be have influence on my life, or if it if they're not worth it, right? Yeah, it made me rethink how I approach relationships.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

I think your generation and below has this deep-seated desire for authenticity that previous generations just puts on autopilot. Yeah. Uh, and I think what would be incredibly intimidating to my generation and above that like brutal honesty is something that like your generation cherishes and desires.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Yeah. Well, we've stayed surface level for our entire lives and like take the highlight reel to social media, that's all we've experienced our entire lives. That we see the highest of everyone's life and we see the worst of our own life. But like we're sick of it. I I've seen a huge surge in the like YouTube videos or Instagram of people just saying, I'm done. Like, I'm not gonna be on social media anymore. This is gonna suck every bit of life out of me. I want depth. I don't want to do scroll. I want to be with people. And I I think my generation will be the the ones to to cut out social media. Do it. That sounds great. Okay, how would you, Dia?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

I love the behind the scenes pictures that you can find of like social media influencers when they show like how they get the shots. You know what I mean? Like it's a perfect shot of this plate of food on their kitchen, but actually somebody standing on the counter to get the right angle and somebody else is shining a light from the side. And all the dirty dishes are behind the camera. Yes. Like I love those things because you really get to see, okay, it's not picture perfect. You know what I mean? This is what is behind the scenes, and that is what provides real connection. I think you were talking about like when somebody says, Hey, how you doing? And you say, Oh, I'm fine, or whatever. I think there's a it, I it feels rude to be honest. And I don't know when that happened. You know what I mean? Like, how is that? They're honestly asking, why is it rude to be you feel burdens burdensome, I think. You know, oh well, I can't say, gosh, I'm I'm really struggling in my marriage, or you know, I just had a huge fight with my best friend, or my kid is out of control and I don't know what to do with him. You know, you don't say that to somebody when you're walking down the office hallway and they're like, How are you? Good.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

That's a good question, though. Like, when does that happen? Because if you go up to a kindergartner, like, how was your day? And they'll be like, Well, I peed my pants.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

And the teacher was so mean.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

And I smelled like armpits most of the afternoon. And they don't care at all. Like that, that's their day.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Now, if I were to answer that right now in my stage of life, you'd be like, We need to send him someplace. He needs some help. That's good.

Peter And Redemption After Failure

SPEAKER_00 12:53

We have the core counseling right here. They're very outside. All right. So Peter is kind of the focus of this whole message series. Not Peter Bay. Sorry, Peter. He might be one of our listeners. I don't know. Maybe he's just a guest. But um, Peter, one of the disciples, and his story is used as an example of redemption after a significant failure. Can you share a time in your life when you felt like Peter but experienced some redemption?

SPEAKER_03 13:26

I'll go. Let's just look straight at me. I didn't know if you wanted to go first. So uh I think one of the things that I've always dealt with uh since probably college is just unworthiness and trying to hide that unworthiness by achievements. And uh that has it's something that I still struggle with now. And um, in my last parish, I started off as an associate pastor and I thought I did a faithful job in the role. And the gentleman who was the senior pastor there uh retired. And there was really no good succession plan or anything like that. So uh the congregation within our church body has the right to choose whomever it feels like is adequately prepared to step into that role. And church leadership met with me and they said, Hey, just so you know, we think that you've done a reasonably faithful job. Thank you for preaching, thank you for you know, leading good Bible studies and so on and so forth. And they're like, we don't want you to go on, we just don't think you're prepared for this next step.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

Ouch.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

And what hurt was like the gentleman that was working there before me spoke as in like, oh, I'll give you a glowing recommendation to like, but their main thing was you don't really have as much business experience. And this role is not just being a like a pastoral leader, this is also being a business leader. And we just don't know if you would be able to do this. And I got that and I understood that. But then they're like, it would be really helpful if you would just let the whole congregation know at all services that you're not prepared for this next step into this job. So I had to get up in front of the entire church at all services and be like, uh, I didn't say this this way, but it would, this is how it felt. I've always struggled with inadequacy, and now I'm getting up in front of hundreds of you who I care for deeply, and we've shared so much life together. And I'm just gonna tell you, I'm woefully inadequate for this job. And it hurt so hard. Interestingly enough, uh, the process goes through. Other people that are far more qualified with business experience go through congregation, votes them down, votes them down, votes them down. And finally they're like, Well, I guess you can put your name on the list if you want to. The district president then comes to meet just with me and he says, Take your name off. Wow. You take your name off. There's no way that this is gonna work. You take your name off right now. And I told him, I was like, look, if the church doesn't want me, that's fine. Like they're they they'll vote and they'll be like, Yeah, he told us he's inadequate for this job. But I told him, I can't do that. Like the theology that I understand of the Holy Spirit working through the call within our church body is that the congregation has the opportunity to choose whoever they see fit, even if that person may not have the skill set, it's their call, but I won't take my name off. And he's like, You got to take your name off. And I was like, I can't, and I'm not going to. And so that was like the one time I've ever like I was really kind but firm. And uh, and so interestingly enough, the very next um time that they had a call committee meeting, they put me up against somebody in terms of like that role who had a ton more experience and on paper would have been having all the skills. And instead, I got to be called to that position. And it was it wasn't like it wasn't even vindicating, it was fulfilling to be able to go up and tell people I am inadequately prepared for this job. And for some reason, you still are calling me to do this. And after that, I mean it was a wonderful opportunity to lead. And one of the strongest pieces that I was able to form while I was there was the business side of the ministry. So it it had nothing to do with like my abilities at the time. It had everything to do with putting the right people in place around me because I know what my weaknesses are. So even in that redemption part, it was more of a uh reliance upon the spirit to bring the right people then because my inadequacy was on full display and it was okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

God doesn't always call the equipped, he equips the called.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Or he like sneaks in the right people to do the work. But it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

You asked the question again.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yes. Peter's story is an example of redemption after a big failure. Can you share a time in your life when you felt like Peter but experienced redemption? Fell flat on your face, and it was it was when you messed up the announcements this week. That's no, I'm just gonna.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

If you came to the nine o'clock service, I was supposed to read the scripture after the announcements. All right, we covered for you.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

You're not supposed to bring it back up again. I know, it's all me.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

The worship team was like, we got this, we're gonna make sure this still goes.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

That's because we're a team.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

And they're like, make sure you do it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

But that's just it. The people that came to the 9 a.m. service didn't even know that you made a mistake.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Right. Yeah. But like sure, I'll I'll expand on that. Like, I was supposed to read the scripture in the hosting and we're very intentional with how we do our announcements here at King of Kings to make sure communication is a is given very explicitly and simplest, simplicitly, simple simply, simply simply simply. Wow. However, simple way to say it. Um, very simply, so that people can hear what's happening at King of Kings. And when I didn't say what I was supposed to say, I went backstage and I was like, Hey Seth, I didn't say this. He could have been like, Okay. You'll never host again. Right. Um gracefully, he he didn't. He he said, I'll work it in. There wasn't a hesitant, a piece of hesitancy in his heart to like be like, oh, all right, service is ruined. We're nothing's gonna make of it. Like, call it off, turn the lights on. Turn around, go home, right? Exactly. And sure, it's a silly, silly reason, but like we all have little mistakes. Sometimes we don't have the huge, uh, huge mistakes that people experience, but it's it's sometimes it's a it's a matter of little after little after little that that kind of feels big after a long time. But it it's how you approach that, and if you have people surrounding you to to build you back up or to say, sorry, man, you're done. Like, like see you later. And I keep thinking uh uh when when Jesus sent out the 12, uh the 12 correct is yeah, yeah, when he sent out the 10 of the 12. He sends out the 72, so I don't know what we're gonna go. Send out the 12, um two by two, they go and they come back and they're like, Man, we gotta rain fire on these people. Like they they didn't listen. It was ridiculous. Like something would didn't work. Jesus could have been like, You're done. I'm not sending you guys back out. Like good luck, because you because you're not a good disciple, clearly. But he he sent out 50 six or sixty more of their best friends and said, Now you guys go with more of you. Like they they clearly just failed. And Jesus, rather than condemning, turns around and empowers them to actually lead. And I think that's a beautiful representation of building back up after a fail failure. And and we all mess up in little ways and surround yourself with people that'll build you up. That not that people will that'll tear you down to to less than what you already felt like you were.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Don't you think that's a good part of like a healthy community though? Because like a healthy community is going to have fallen on their face as well and knows what it's like to do that, which is why a community should be able to be there to be like, oh, I get it, man. I've wanted to shake my the dust off my sandals on these people too. But that's not how we do this with in Jesus. Right. So we're not raining fire.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

But I think it's easy sometimes to get stuck on the idea that we provide our own redemption or that we have to do something for that redemption.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

But it is the community that we have. I mean, ultimately we have eternal redemption from God. But you know what I mean? It is the community around us that provides those opportunities in our earthly ways for that redemption.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Yeah. So when it comes to hosting and not doing the right thing, everyone sitting around this table, I can think of one time at least when we've done something that's like slightly off, right? Not necessarily like wrong, but like people obviously knew that. So I will share my own. It's just a small thing at the very end of every service. It's good for us to try to help foster that community to say, shake a hand, share a name. And I can tell you, there's been one time where I'm like, hey, everybody, God bless you. Wasn't it great to hear from the Lord of the word of the Lord today? Shake a name, share a hand. God bless you.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Didn't Freddie say that this Sunday, too?

SPEAKER_03 21:56

At the very end of this. And what's funny is in our worship and production meeting, he's the one. That had it queued up. And he was like, I did it. I'm owning it. And they played it. Yeah. We all had a good laugh. And he and I fist bumped because I've been there too.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

But Dina's never done an ad. Never. That's not true.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

I totally missed announcements once. Do you remember that, Seth?

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Yeah. It's okay. I wasn't going to bring it up. My favorite story, though.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

I'm supposed to be doing announcements at the eight o'clock service. And I am, those of you that have been at our Millard campus know the corridor is long, very long. I'm at the other end of the building at eight o'clock, dealing with a volunteer issue, kind of wrapping up a conversation. And I look at my watch and it is exactly eight o'clock, which is right when I'm supposed to be walking on stage on the other side of the building. I run and I am not a runner. I am not in the physical shape to be running. I run to the haven. And as my hand gets on the door of the haven, I see Seth going up on stage to do announcements. And I am so grateful because by that time, even if I got in there, I would have been like, so happy to see it today.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

No, so I'm we'll get more into questions here, but my favorite Dina story was actually the opposite because Dina is so prepared and she is so overly on time that there was one time where there was a miscommunication and someone sent her out onto the stage a minute before she was supposed to even go out. So she just stood in the in the dark stage for 60 seconds while the video played.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Well, I I had the opposite extreme this weekend on 11 o'clock because you're supposed to like right when the lights come up, you're supposed to be standing on the X. I was sent a little late. And so I'm just waltzing my way out, getting to my X, and the students are like, whoo, come on, you got it, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Great. This is this is wonderful. So now everybody listening, the I'm gonna add people, the 509 people listening.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Wow, we increased a lot.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

It's been a good couple of weeks. Now they all have a backstage view of our own foibles, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah. And those are very small foibles, I feel like. I what I really like about Peter's story is that Zach highlighted how um in the the story prior to the crucifixion where Peter denies Jesus three times, but then when P when Jesus reappears to them, he gives Peter a chance to confirm his love for him three times. And I liked that comparison that he highlighted that. I thought that was a good match there. Zach says that sometimes the chapters we want most to hide are the ones that God wants to use the most. He encourages allowing Jesus to sit with you in the worst chapters. What does this look like in a practical daily sense to allow Jesus to just be with us in the worst?

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah, it was uh junior year of college, and my grandma had passed away. And it was the first grandparent that had passed away, and it was the first probably close family member that had passed away. And it was it was hard. Um a week later, this freshman who I was kind of mentoring in a few different ways approached me, was like, Hey, my my grandma's in the hospital. And it was like, oh wow, like I get I got to sit with him and not tell him I've been through what he's been through, because I haven't, but to say, like, hey, this this just happened to me, and I I don't get it, but I'm with you. And I I hear what you're going through, and I'm gonna sit with you because I needed someone to sit with me a week ago. It was just a beautiful example that that just like you said, the hardest seasons are the ones that God will often use. And uh it'll it'll often be potentially sacrificial for yourself for your own story to be able to share that to to care for someone else. So when something bad happens, maybe not not be excited, but keep your eyes open because God might be doing something big.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I shared this story last week, but it's the same I talked about in the middle of my divorce when things were the hardest. I had a friend at work who would come and just check in with me every couple weeks. Okay, what are we praying for right now?

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Where's the one where your kids could go eat lunch? No, that's a different one.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

That's a different one. Yeah. But she just like would come and check, okay, what are we praying for now? Where are you at in counseling? What's going on? And I was very open with her about here's my part of where this um gap in our marriage is, like taking ownership of the things that I could have done better. And after like a few months, she came to me and was just like, thank you. And I was like, thank you for what? And she goes, You're being so open and vulnerable about these things. I'm reinvesting in my marriage. Like I'm making sure I'm like doing these checks. Am I, you know, spending time with my husband intentionally? Am I, you know, purposefully setting aside X, Y, Z or doing the things that you're talking about or things that you could maybe could have changed along the way. Um, and because you're being open about it, I'm able to invest in my marriage in a different way. And that's like not ever what I expected when I'm, you know, sharing my burden with her that she's gonna take it and make it into something better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

I wonder how much of it like life that we hide from other people because they're we we don't want to be vulnerable because we're afraid we're already hurting. We're afraid we're gonna get hurt worse and we don't know how we're gonna respond to getting hurt even worse. I wonder how much of that vulnerability we need to express to other people, because if not, we won't express it to God. Uh, because we're worried that like he's gonna treat us like other people treat us, and we can't survive being let down by God because we're we're just holding on to any scrap of mercy. And we know that that's not the character of God at all, but we just superimpose our other relationships with all of its brokenness onto him, and we don't want to be that raw and to be that vulnerable with God, and then we don't grow. And so, you know, like when we're looking at the character of Peter, I think there's a lot that was going on internally with him throughout this whole narrative, especially how Zach drew all of these pieces together and the different parts of ministry for Peter. Like this is core to who Peter is now. He knows what it's like to be rejected. And we talked about the whole process of becoming a fisherman meant that you were rejected from going on to what they would consider a more respected, you know, position. So he knew what that felt like. And in some ways, that fuels his passion to go tell other people about the Messiah that he's found. But in other ways, like he over-reacts and over-corrects the um Greek that he uses in the text that we were just talking about about, oh, I will never disown you. It's the most emphatic negation that you can take in that entire language because it's it's cutting off the future possibility that you'll ever do that. He, in fact, he uses like it's almost like a triple negative. Like, I will no, not never do this thing. There's no possible way that me, being who I am, could see myself doing this thing. And so it he does this kind of twice. Uh, even if everybody else fails, like even if all these other schmucks are terrible, i.e., the people that are standing right next to them. Yeah, I won't I won't be that way because I'm not that kind of guy. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

And even says, like, I'll go to my death before I, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Before I do this. So it really shows like he's raw in that moment. And uh you can see that and hear and feel as you know, uh, the gospel writer just adds that little note around the campfire, that first charcoal fire that you know Zach talked about and that the scriptures talk about. That as soon as he denies Jesus, the very thing he said he would not, never, ever do, he does it and realized he is he is that kind of person that would do that thing. And he's just disappointed in himself. And then the gospel writer says, Jesus looks straight at him. So Jesus is in the middle of this terrible experience for himself, and then he locks eyes with Peter, and Peter realizes I am that kind of guy. I am that kind of failure. The thing that I've been trying to prove to myself that I'm not, I really am. And so we'll talk about it, you know, more of this story in just a second. But man, it it's a painful thing to be vulnerable. And I would also say if he wasn't vulnerable with his God, with his Jesus later, his story would be very, very different.

Imposter Syndrome And Calling

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Yeah. Okay, so the notion of duality, both as an imposter and an influencer, is prevalent in the sermon. How do you handle moments of self-doubt regarding your influence or calling?

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah, it's it's every other day that it's like, am I really met for this position?

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Um This is the the best job in the world that I get to impact and influence students' lives for the sake of the gospel. And the next question that follows every time it's like, really?

SPEAKER_01 30:49

You think you think you could do that? And it's the enemy working in my in my heart and my head. It it's hard and and it comes up all the time.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

And it encourages me to be influenced first. Um when I'm not in the word daily, when I'm not in my spiritual disciplines, I'm not who I know God needs me to be or wants me to be. I'm impatient, I'm rude, I'm not kind, I'm not who I am when I'm in the word. Because I'm not being influenced first. I think that's that's so important in kind of identity. It can be tacked onto this a little bit, to know who you are, to know whose you are before you try and be someone that you're not.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

That's that's really wise. And one of the things I'm drawing from what you're just saying is you can have the exact same actions by two different people, and it's their identity that's gonna reveal whether they're an influencer or an imposter.

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

Like, because it could just be doing the nice thing to you to try to get something on the other side of it from you, or to get you to do something for them. Or maybe they're just influencing you because they see you know, like a super high potential in you and they want to support and encourage you. And what you won't know is you're not really gonna know what that motivation is until you actually live a really vulnerable, raw life uh with other people.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

That's a unique differentiation in influencer and imposter. Like an imposter is pretending to be something they're not, whereas an influencer is is influencing the people around them, not in in a in a Christian worldview, not because they know they can or should, but because they know they're called to. Because they know they're they're in this position for a reason.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

And you've just answered your own question from the beginning. Why is it that I get to do this? Why should I be here?

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Because you're called. And the calling isn't because you're good enough or you're smart enough, or what was it, Stuart Smalley said from Saturday Night Live? Gosh darn it, people like me.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yep. Whatever it was. I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me. You are correct.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Nonetheless, though, I mean, like it's what you just did was full circle from why in the world do I get to do this, to the Lord has revealed why. And it's because he has called me here for whatever that reason is. Right. Certainly not because we're adequately prepared uh to be hosts, apparently. Definitely not. Definitely not me.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

What are you talking about? We're all great. Um, I really like the idea of uh like is a, I don't know, fake it till you make it. I feel like that's a you know, everybody's fake it till you make it. And I think it's looked upon with a negative connotation, you know, that people who are fake. But I think there's an aspect of where that means you're continuing to try. And not necessarily faking it as in a false way or like being, I don't know, deceitful or something about it. But I think there is a level of where if you are failing and you continue to get up and try, you are kind of faking it until you get that confidence or until you get that success that you're seeking. Um I just don't know that I'm not entirely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Okay. So I understand the tension that you're talking about. Like if you're continuing to do it, but you're not that thing yet, but you're trying to portray that you are that thing because it's a good thing. Like I want to be a dutiful Christian. So Pastor Craig Groschel from Life Church, he's taught on the very same thing before. He's got a really good book about like having the scriptures retrain your mind and your heart to identify identify yourself in Jesus first. He said, he does, he said, you don't have to worry about fake it till you make it, do it till you become it. I was like, that is really good.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

That's good.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Because there's no sense then of like trying to be deceitful about it. It's you just continue to do the practice of following Jesus until you're the kind of follower of Jesus that you've always wanted to be. And there's no end to it. So it's not like there's a perfection end on the other end, but as in like, man, I wish I was that kind of Christian that would read the Bible every day. Well, the only way that you're gonna get there is if you actually do it and you fail, and then you do it, and you fail, and you do it. And then you become the person, hopefully, that somehow is in the word every day. So I I really like that reframing of it because it kind of takes the deception aspect out of it and yet still gets at the same thing. And that is the spirit works on us. Um the spirit worked on Peter. One of the things I like about the story of Peter is that like we think that post-resurrection, which we're gonna talk about in a second, is the end of Peter's mistakes. But then I think it's in Galatians where Paul is like, so Peter, like you're really messing this thing up with like the Gentiles coming in and the whole circumcision, non-circumcision thing. So, like, even in the early church parts of the scriptures, Peter still doesn't necessarily have it all right. So he still has to do it until he becomes. And then, of course, he's this great faithful leader, but you know, he's marked by these issues that he has, or he doesn't always get it right. And I think that's why so many people connect with a character like Peter.

Grace After Failure In Community

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah. Well, and I think Zach reminded us last week, even about how young the disciples are. Like when we think about in my head growing up, the disciples were all in their 30s and 40s. Right. Like that's just where they were when I heard talk of them or when I read it. Because when you were thinking about it, those are old people, right? But they are young and inexperienced and not at the top of their game. You know what I mean? Still learning. And I like that. In what ways can the we as the church community support individuals who are struggling to embrace God's grace after a failure?

SPEAKER_02 36:25

I think just realizing you're not alone, everyone messes up. Uh it was cool to see Zach be a little vulnerable on stage and share some of the ways he's not been perfect. I think that's beautiful in a in a pastor to share how you've been imperfect because a pastor is not above anybody else. Uh, we all have the priesthood of all believers, right? To to all be priests in our own way. And yeah, no one's perfect. No one's gonna get it right all the time. If you think you've gone too far, if you messed up too much, uh you haven't. Uh there's no no nothing that grace cannot reach, no, no sin that grace cannot wash clean. And I mean, we'll keep taking it back to community, but be around people that'll tell you that that when you s confess to them, they don't condemn, they don't share negative, but they they wrap around you, they give you a hug. They're with you and they preach the the grace of Jesus over your life.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

I think there's something to a really healthy community though that understands like the boundaries and the time of restoration after redemption. Because if they really don't care about you, they'll throw you back into a similar scenario where you're gonna do the same thing over again. But I think like a really good Christian community is gonna see that you're restored in Jesus first and you start working on like that identity and that wholeness in Jesus. And there will be a time period before like you get back up into that same position, not because it's punitive, like, oh, you screwed up here, therefore we're gonna keep smacking you down further and further. But as in like clearly, there's something that was uh that was troubled in that scenario. Sure. And then you brought that into that, but you're not to a point of health where you can get back into that scenario yet. So to help you, yes, you are restored in the gospel. We might not put you right back into that position yet, though, because it we care about you, you might still get hurt. And I think there is some like two extremes. So, like, say somebody fails morally in a church. Oh my goodness, the amount of time that it takes now for a lot of churches to like put that person right back into the same spot is it's kind of gross, in my opinion, because clearly that person wasn't healthy. And if you really cared about them and not like, oh, if this really well-known preacher isn't in the pulpit every weekend, our giving goes down. So we need to put him back up in there and we'll say that he's restored and he probably desires restoration. And yet you really don't care about him. Uh, you care about the bottom line of the church. And uh, so there's that extreme that's like, yeah, we'll just get in there. Then there's the other extreme that's like, wow, you had a you had a failure. And that's it. Like, there is no restoration here. There is no hope. And that doesn't communicate health either. And can you imagine if that would have been the case for Peter? Uh I think there'd be scores of Christians that wouldn't necessarily have a character that a true character that they'd be able to connect with in this Bible event.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Where I see this sometimes is people who don't feel worthy to come to church. They think they have to have it all together before they can come to church or before they can start a relationship and don't understand that that's what the relationship is for. You're not gonna have it all together.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

You don't clean yourself before you get in the shower. Right. You step in the shower and start scrubbing. I I do that. I don't know why you don't do it. That's a weird sense.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

It's like rinsing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher. Totally different arguments. Cleaning the house before you're coming.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Gotta get the chunks off. Gotta get the chunks off.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

This is true. I have a very old dishwasher, so you have to do a lot of rinsing. Um, but I think that there's a case of people, okay, if they decide, okay, I want faith to be a my part of my life. So they start coming to church and they feel a little bit ashamed that they don't know everything or don't think that they're worthy or don't, you know, um show up every week or something. I think the number one thing that we can do is continue to be welcoming and open to them. I mean, because it's that, it's that saying of people don't care how much you know till you they know how much you care. Like they want to know that you care about them being there. And then they're more open to what God has to say because they know they feel valued in that community.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Yeah. Well, you don't truly know or trust, I'll say that that a friend's there for you until something hard happens and they're still with you. Until something breaks and they're like, I'm I'm I'm gonna walk with you through this this issue and let's let's do that for the people at King of Kings that that stuff's gonna happen and we're with you guys. We're we're not gonna walk away when life gets hard. We're we're gonna get closer when life gets hard.

unknown 41:00

Yeah.

Hope Beyond Death And Suffering

SPEAKER_00 41:01

That's good. Okay, so Zach mentioned that God doesn't want to write stor doesn't write stories that end in sin or death. How does this fundamental belief impact the way you approach life challenges or obstacles?

SPEAKER_03 41:17

I love that there are two different ways that you look at that kind of statement. So a chapter doesn't end in death, a story doesn't end in death. And somebody could look at that on the outside and they'd be like, my grandma, like you were given a story of your grandma. My grandma passed away. It sounds like that story ends in death. Right. Uh but the blessing of our faith is that that's that's an end of that chapter of her story. And it's sad, and that's why we get to grieve that, and it's okay to have those emotions. Uh but there's also a next chapter to that story that someday uh Jesus comes back and he makes this wild and wonderful promise that uh all of those stories that once ended one way are going to continue and not come, they're they're not going to stop then because they're gonna continue in him. And she'll be raised in a glorified body. And her next part of the story starts. And that very well could be how it goes. Yeah. It very well could be that if someone has listened to this and they're ill and they think that there's no hope, there are miracles littered all throughout the scriptures that Jesus intervened into the regular happenings of nature, and of course, changed all of those things for the sake of that one person's story. And so it very rare really is two parts of the story that like there's a part that doesn't end in death because Jesus speaks life. And sometimes a person passes away, and those promises from the Gospel of John that Jesus makes to Martha are still valid. Yes, my brother will be raised in the resurrection of all things in the last day. And then Jesus is like, that's true also, but watch this.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

And so I think there's this quality of, but watch this that Jesus brings into life. And it's uh either one of those moments that it's not a story that ends in sin and death.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah, I mean, in this world you will have trouble, but take our drive over from the world.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

That's a great word. It it's just like God will bring everything to fruition. The circle always comes clean, comes closed.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

I know that whatever happens in my life, God will make right in the end. Maybe not right now, maybe not in a year, maybe not in five years, but in the end of my life I can look back and I'd rather say I went through a lot of hard times when I was with Jesus than I had some really good times and I was alone. Yeah. There there's always something around the corner. There's always hope to look down the line. We don't have to go through this life alone.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

I am an internal optimist. So, like even in the worst struggles or the worst times, there's always something to smile about. There's always something, some joy that's coming. Or Always something to look forward to each day. Um, and I think that comes from my faith, because I know that it's not sin and death for me today. I woke up this morning, so God's still got plans for me. Yeah. Like it's not the end. And even when it is the earthly end, it's not the end. Like that's the big key. Yeah. What are your feelings on the importance of revisiting painful experiences for healing, as illustrated by the charcoal fire that Zach talked about? How can this painful process lead to growth and maybe deeper faith?

SPEAKER_02 44:34

I mean, it's what we just talked about. There's always restoration. I mean, maybe not now, but eventually there'll be restoration. Uh that Paul says, I boast in my sufferings. Like he he's excited for when it's gonna get hard.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Not in a weird, like manly, like Andrew Tate way, but like it's gonna get hard, and that's when God gets to use me.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Yeah. I mean, I don't think I have anything extra to add to that because that's just it's gonna be the way that life is until he until he comes back.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

I think it's okay to revisit the ways that we grew. And I think those hurtful, painful experiences are times when we grew. And so it's not revisiting them for the pain. It's revisiting them because, hey, look what look how different I was after that. You know what I mean? Look what I learned there. And I think that's almost a helpful process sometimes. It also gives you some closure on whether it's grief or suffering or whatever. Um, that's maybe not fully closing a wound, but it gives you a little separation when you see what came out of it or what God did through it.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Suffering produces or hardship produces suffering and suffering character and so on and so forth.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

All right. Final takeaways from this message the cost of influence.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

Well, I know I talked about, you know, restoring someone maybe too quickly or not quickly enough, or whatever it is. Jesus says insight into character and what people need that we don't have. And so um the full-on three-time restoration that Jesus gives to Peter around that second charcoal fire is really expansive when you think about what he's called to do. Uh do you love me? Yes, Lord, I love you. Well then feed my lambs. Do you love me? Yes, Lord, you know I love you. Well then feed my sheep. Do you love me? Yes, Lord, you know I love you. Shepherd, my sheep. And so when you look at those verbs and you look at those nouns, uh the main thing is the restoration of Peter. But to do what? And so the first one had to do with lambs. So take care of the littlest and the youngest and the newest of my people. And then take care of my sheep, those who have been around. Uh I am still looking for you, Peter, to help shepherd all of them. And so it's like this full restoration. So it's not like he gets knocked down to be like, just take care of the elderly of the flock, the slow ones, or don't just take care of the the just the little little ones, because that's all you can handle right now. Not that that's bad, but I mean like Jesus is fully restoring him to a level of care to as many people as possible, because Peter knows in his heart of hearts that's what he's called to do. And it's not because he's great at it or anything, but because he's called to that position. And so that's what I'm gonna be taking beyond Sunday is that the restoration that Jesus gives is full and complete. And if he's gonna call you to something in life, then you should lean into that rather than punish yourself more because you realize that you are inadequate for whatever that is. Lean into it more, lean into Jesus more. He's gonna be the one that brings you through that moment.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Yeah, I think like Jesus empowered Peter Peter when he potentially wasn't ready. I want to embrace empowerment when I don't feel ready and empower people when they're not ready. Because it's not about perfection or about doing all the right things, but it's the pursuit to Jesus and the process.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Yeah. Those leaders that think that you can sense that they think they're ready, they're the most dangerous leaders. Uh, because usually there's like humility or lack of humility issues, there's pride issues, uh, there's a it's only my way or the highway. And that that's it's really hard to work in ministry with folks like that. So there's some wisdom there too.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Um, I really like when Zach talked about, you know, there's a cost to everything. And sometimes the cost is laying down your expectation of what you thought of things. And it made me think there's an author I like, her name is Rachel Marie Martin, and she says, sometimes the greatest freedom happens when you let go of what you thought you would be and step into who you were meant to be. And I feel like that's really the calling of God. You know, he puts us in situations where we may not feel ready or we may have expected something totally different. This is not where I expected to land in life. But when he calls you to that situation, sometimes it's okay to let go of your expectation and step into really what you're what opportunities you have in that role to influence those around you. All right, guys. Thanks so much for being here today. Next week we are wrapping up our influencers series. And it's also Super Sacrament Sacrament Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 49:03

Sacrament Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

It's first communion, it's baptism.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Everybody else gets communion.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

It's Palm Sunday. Well, we are gonna enjoy the last of these messages next week. And we, until then, let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday.