Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday is a podcast where we dive into what our Church is up to, what's happening in society, go deeper into topics from Sunday mornings, and hear leadership talks and coffee break theology from Pastor Greg Griffith. This is a podcast of King of Kings Church in Omaha & Fremont, Nebraska. Learn more at kingofkings.org.
Beyond Sunday
Sinners Anonymous — Week 4
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Dina, Tyler, and Kate continue the Sinners Anonymous series with Jonah 3 and a closer look at repentance, accountability, and the power of community. They explore how bringing sin into the light creates room for real change, and how Jesus shows us a King who humbles Himself to rescue rather than condemn.
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Welcome And Noodle Icebreakers
SPEAKER_02Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our message series and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dina Newsome, and I'm so happy to be here today. And guys, guys, listeners, the guests we have today, I cannot tell you how special they are. Special is my word for the day. I like too much.
SPEAKER_03You really captured everyone's attention. Where's like guys?
SPEAKER_02Guys, they might be friends. Friends, guys and girls, friends, everyone, listeners, all 19 of you. I think that's where my count is at right now. Woo-woo. You know, yeah. Um, go ahead and say hello. Kate Solberg, care ministry.
SPEAKER_03Tyler Rolfson, Fremont Campus.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for being here today, guys. It is a special day.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Today is National Noodle Day. I myself am a particular lover of the pasta situation. And so um, this is this is actually a day that I knew before I looked up what today is. Um, I I don't have a way that I celebrate National Noodle Days. I did have a cup of noodles for my lunch, a little ramen cup of noodle. Um, but my question for you is what's your favorite noodle? And what's favorite sauce on it? We always end up food related. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03Kate, Kate, have you considered your hierarchy of noodles in life before?
SPEAKER_02No. Do you have a favorite noodle dish then? Is there a favorite pasta dish?
SPEAKER_03I'll join the macaroni mayhem first. Yes. Um, I grew up on blue box craft mac and cheese. And Lord willing, that will be my final meal before I depart into heaven. It is so good. It is so cheap, it is so fake colored, neon yellow. The calories are through the roof, but it is unmatched. And so, preferred noodle. The um, I was gonna say moon-shaped macaroni. What shape is it? It's a curve, it's a half circle.
SPEAKER_02I don't know, the craft ones are straight.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_02The craft ones are just they're like tubular.
SPEAKER_03Yes, the tubular, straight noodles covered in we're not totally sure, processed through a lot of things, cheese.
SPEAKER_01Sounds disgusting. Sorry, sorry.
SPEAKER_02That's okay, that's a favorite meal of my granddaughters right now, but only the craft kind. And sometimes one of them is particular that's only the boxed kind, not even like the the bowl bowls that you can get where you just add the water. She would she won't want that. She'll only want the box.
SPEAKER_03So my four-year-old right now, she uh she keeps getting salt and pepper mixed up. And uh, and so she thinks that any pepper on it is too spicy. But then she will she'll ask me, Dad, did you put salt on this? I'm like, Well, I did, but you're actually wanting to know if I put pepper on it, which I also did, but it's not that spicy. Eat your mac and cheese.
SPEAKER_01Spicy. But the youngest cracks me up. Your wife told me, I won't give anything away, but she might have gotten in trouble for the first time in kindergarten. And the only reason your wife told me that was because I'm like, I heard she's doing so good.
SPEAKER_03And your wife's like, Yeah, we did not get the best report on Friday for the pre-K teacher.
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, that means she's normal. Congratulations. Do not be discouraged. It's not the it's not the last time you'll hear this.
SPEAKER_03Pete, the people want to hear about your noodle report.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, okay, sorry. I get distracted by fun children. Noodles. I don't know. I'm not a big fan. I just tuna noodle casserole popped in my head because my mom used to make that all the time, which I really liked because it had potato chips and cheese on the top. But she put peas in it, and I hate peas. And so I would stand at the sink and pick every single pea out before I ate it, and it would drive my family insane. They're like, just eat it. Kate taste them.
SPEAKER_03Why didn't you why'd you take the peas out at the sink? Why don't you just do it at the table?
SPEAKER_01Because I didn't even want to sit down and eat it until I got the peas evacuated off my plate because Kate was that girl.
SPEAKER_03I mean, that was me. That was me with uh chili and any beans in the chili. Oh, is I would eat around the beans. But the beans would be at the bottom of the bowl.
SPEAKER_02Are you still that way? Still no beans in your chili.
SPEAKER_03I'll do beans and chili. Oh, it's okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in the right proportion.
SPEAKER_02I love lasagna noodles. I want to make just a pasta dish out of lasagna noodles because they're like not a lasagna, just because they're wide and flat, and I think they're so fun.
SPEAKER_00But it's a lot of work to make a lasagna.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it is. I don't ever do that. My son-in-law makes a great lasagna. But my personal favorite um is bowtie noodles. I love bowtie noodles, they're fun. I just like them because they're fun.
SPEAKER_03And your sauce to go over your bow tie.
SPEAKER_02You know what? You know what I really like? Beer cheese.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Beer cheese on my bow tie noodles. What's the place over spaghetti works? When you go to spaghetti works and you can pick your pasta and you can pick your sauce.
SPEAKER_03Bottomless bowls, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. My go-to, I'm an Alfredo girl. I really like an Alfredo sauce over a marinara sauce.
SPEAKER_03But if there's beer cheese available, can I tell you guys my adulting one over the last few years as I learned how to make a homemade Alfredo?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's like the classic was it French or Italian? Like make a roux and then build out your Alfredo sauce with your spices and your chicken. I just did it. I just so I started this conversation talking about how much I love crap mac and cheese, and now I'm ending it with like I can make my own homemade alfredo. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Now we get to the guts. You've got some street cred back now.
SPEAKER_00Good. Thank you, Dina.
SPEAKER_02With our with our devoted pasta lovers.
SPEAKER_00Exactly right.
SPEAKER_02All
Jonah Chapter Three Gets Real
SPEAKER_02right. I don't know how to transition from pastors to pasta to sinners, except eating too much pasta makes me feel like a sinner, but um no. We are in week four of Sinners Anonymous, and Pastor Zach Zender has been taking us through this. And um, we are following the story of Jonah. Um, what are you guys taking beyond Sunday from this week's message?
SPEAKER_03Um, there were so many good things. Um, we were we were debriefing in our teaching team meeting earlier today. We're like, man, this like the Lord's really moving in this series. It's been really powerful. Um, I'm trying to find the quote. Here it is, right here. Um, where's uh a few times Zach's been referencing different um slogans and phrases from recovery communities. And I know we've talked about it a little bit on the podcast. And he he said this the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, the opposite of addiction is connection. I had never heard that before, but like I I want to take that with me. Like that what we most need to combat our worst vices is connection with other people and with God.
SPEAKER_01That's good. Agree. Um I was just blown away by the king of Nineveh. Like I you just forget chapter three and four even exist, and like that's like the meaty part, you know, that's like the good part. And and so I don't know, I feel like dang, uh, there I am in Jonah again. I see myself in Jonah, like dragging his feet, having a bad attitude, but knowing all the right information. He knows God, he knows what to do. His execution is not great. So I see myself in Jonah, but I was blown away by the king of Nineveh. And I don't think they ever give his name. They just call the king of Nineveh. But dang, true repentance. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Um, I really liked at one point Zach talked about how we bargain with God and we're like, well, you can remove the guilt of my sin, but I don't really have to give up the sin. And he went through several examples, you know, like, oh, you can help me with my finances, but don't talk to me about my spending, like those types of things. Um, that really stuck with me. I was like, oh, that's a that's a good one. I've had those conversations with God. And it's not so great when I'm, oh, okay.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Let's really talk about what I can do and what God can do. All right. So um we've been going through the story of Jonah. Let's get an update on the book of Jonah, where we are this week. And Zach actually started out in a creative way with a storybook that he found at the Fremont campus.
SPEAKER_03The ri the riches of the library of our Fremont campus. I think we were just out there for a uh a team meeting, and Seth found it in our library or nursery's library.
SPEAKER_02It was really cute.
SPEAKER_03It was adorable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it didn't tell the whole story, most of it, and Johnny's background music was great. If you didn't weren't at a campus this week to watch the message, go check it out online. Um, there's an opening little story, storybook story. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, let's you you want to give us an update on where we're at, Tyler?
SPEAKER_03Totally, totally. And and the and the point of why Zach shared that. One, it was just clever and just like a fun way to to start to get us to get us drawn in, but also to recognize like we want to make sure we're actually following the real story. And um, and so the the point is not how once Jonah got spit back up onto land, now he's gonna be perfectly obedient and we all live happily ever after.
SPEAKER_02Um the word of God's-cause that often is what we cover with kids. It's right. Shona said no, and then got ate the fish, ate him, and then he got out and he did what God wanted the end. Like that's where where we kind of wrap it up usually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and that really is like it's that's only the first half of the book. We got all of chapter three and chapter four. And so, yeah, so um uh so beginning of chapter three, the word of the Lord comes to Jonah a second time. And we talked about this last week how um we shouldn't be surprised that it's like the exact same command that God gave Jonah the first time. The Nineveh, the message still needed to get to the Ninevehites, the warning from God, which actually was his mercy, to repent or Nineveh will be destroyed. And so Jonah makes the trip to Nineveh and he walks through the town. It takes like three days to get through the town or something like that. Um, and he just preaches that really simple message: 40 more days, and Nineveh will be destroyed. And so last week we stopped in the middle, was it verse five, where we just said the Nineveh's believed God, and then this week we picked it up. And you uh Kate, you already referenced what the king of Nineveh did. And so Fastos proclaimed all of them from the greatest to the least, they put on sackcloth. I didn't notice until this week, sackcloth is mentioned three times in this verse or in this chapter. So um as kind of a uh a physical symbolism of repentance. And Zach even mentioned just how like scratchy it is.
SPEAKER_02I think of like a gunnysack. We think of our childhood gunnysack races. That's what sackcloth is in my head.
SPEAKER_03That's right. That would be the um the DNT, the Dina Newsom translation.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Maybe Dina O'Brien. That was my maiden name when I used to use gunnysacks.
SPEAKER_03There we go.
SPEAKER_02Did you guys have the gunnysack races like field day when you were growing up? That was the best.
SPEAKER_03Way back when. Yep.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. All right. Sorry, continue with our sackcloth.
SPEAKER_03That was good, yeah. And um, and so the king of Nineveh calls all the people to kind of take this posture of repentance, to turn from their evil ways and saying, maybe, just maybe, God will relent. And then uh chapter three ends when God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. And so it's it's to this week was all about what does it look like for us to hear the word of the Lord and then to actually take steps of repentance.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much. That was a great summary.
unknownYou're welcome.
SPEAKER_02All right. So, how does the book of Jonah illustrate the concept of repentance in a way that resonates with our culture?
Why Repentance Fights Isolation
SPEAKER_02What do you think?
SPEAKER_03I don't really know if repentance ever resonates with any culture.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm like, does it? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Just because it it it goes it goes against everything in us that um wants to be selfish and doesn't want to admit we're wrong, certainly doesn't want to take steps to make things right when things have gone been wrong. Um and uh uh Dean, I know was on when I was on a couple weeks ago, you shared some of like loved ones that were close to you that you you journeyed through recovery with. And I think that is one of the like coming back to that connection and why we're in the center's anonymous series is there are there are um places and habits and a culture of these NA groups and GA groups and SA groups and AA groups where they just recognize like I've made a mess of my life. I'm not gonna put on any pretense, I need help. I like I can't do this on my own. And so, like at that recognition of it's not just that, yeah, I sin occasionally, but it's like I am a helpless sinner and God rescues me, and now here I am. How, how can I actually walk to make things right and follow God? Not that it's in my own strength, but like the king of Nineveh, like take steps to humble ourselves. Um, and so it's it's to me, it's not popular. It's not, it's not the kind of thing that um people are like, wow, great job being humble. Um, but at the same time, the word of God says that God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. And so there's always grace for us when we humble ourselves, even if it might not resonate within the culture.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think that same time we were talking about people hitting their rock bottom. Like that's when they ask for help. I think that people that are on um a journey with an addiction, they continue to isolate themselves because then the behavior becomes, they can give permission to themselves. They don't have to seek permission from others. So the more they isolate themselves, the more that behavior gets in the dark and grows because there's no one to intervene. And so then when they hit that rack bottom, it's that realization that I need to reach out for help. And I love the imagery there. We talked about that one week where God came down and that he then reached out for us the same way he reached out to help Jonah. That the, you know, the whole idea there. And I think that's the um similarity in the recovery community that we have to reach, like someone that at the bottom of their recovery or at the start of their recovery, at the bottom of their addiction, is ready to reach out for help. But that means coming into community. Like you said, the the um success is community. And um, then they can start to take the steps to remedy what they've done. But that brings things into the light. It's not in the dark where it's growing in their isolation that it comes in with the light. Um, I I think the part of the Jonah story that I think r can resonate with people is the running away. I mean, I think that that piece that's not part of the actual repentance, you know what I mean? But I do think the idea that, hey, here's somebody that's in the Bible who's important. And he did what I would probably do when God laid this hard task on me and ran away. Um, and so I like the idea of that.
SPEAKER_03There is something, I mean, there's so much in Jonah, but notice like when the word of the Lord first came to Jonah, he ran the opposite way. And he's he's like a he's an Israelite, he's a he's a person of the covenant. And then Nineveh, the king of Nineveh, who for all we know, this might be his very first interaction with the one true God. He hears this random Israelite prophet preach destruction, and he immediately takes the posture of humility.
SPEAKER_02That's it, that's what's up.
SPEAKER_03And so if it you know, we say it all the time, but we just don't want to turn into a platitude. Like no one is too far gone to receive God's grace and to turn their life around. Like, just there is no such thing as, well, yeah, they would they don't stand a chance. With man, it it's impossible. With God, all things are possible. And if there's one thing that we like see over and over in the Jonas story, is like it can only happen with God, right? All the the storms and all the animals and the cows that went for multiple days without eating. Poor cats to the fish, to then this town of a hundred and twenty thousand, big, powerful Nineveh, king of Nineveh, who could have easily conquered all these nations and did that they humble themselves, they repent. Like it's all God at work, um, displaying his mercy and then leading us to humility.
SPEAKER_02It's amazing. God's amazing. All right, can you share a personal experience where you felt the need to practice repentance and maybe what steps you took as part of that?
Daily Repentance In Real Relationships
SPEAKER_01Well, I think as a parent, um the hardest, one of the hardest times is um just saying you were wrong, you made a mistake, and to your children because um you're supposed to as a parent, you're supposed to have it all together all the time and know the answers and be in charge. And that is not the case all the time, and um it's important to do that though to because it models it for your children. And they're like, oh, and luckily even when my kids were maybe reluctant, they were still angry at me for a little bit, you know. They they would tell me, Yes, mom, we forgive you, you know. And so yeah, that's that can be hard as a parent, but it's definitely worth worth it. And I have adult children now, and the goal is to not only raise your children, but you want just a sweet relationship their entire lives with you. And you want to be able to model the goodness of the Lord, even when they're adults. I mean to to everyone around you, especially your children. So yeah, that's what came to my mind.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, that's that's good. I mean, I I've I've been right there, right? We've all been there. Um in that parenting world. Uh so I'm gonna I'm gonna have two quotes here. One is from the famous Martin Luther, and the other is from the famous Julie Easley.
SPEAKER_02Julie Easley. I know her.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Julie's our executive director here. Um, but Julie does a lot of our management training to train us to be effective managers and leaders. And uh and she'll one of the phrases that she uses is um have have the toothbrush conversations so that you can avoid the root canal conversations. Like the the regular, quick, hey, check in on this, hey, feedback on that. Um, I'm sorry for the how I said that, that sort of thing. So then the the narrative and the resentment doesn't build that the only time you're talking about it is when guns are blazing and emotions are high and you build up the bullet point, that sort of thing. Um, and then Luther talked about how all of life is repentance. The Christian life is a life of repentance where we're buried with Christ in baptism, we're raised with him to newness of life. And so this isn't this isn't a perfect thing, of course, but I I think sometimes we we build repentance as to be this like big move of um, you know, I've done something terrible and now I need to acknowledge it and confess that sort of thing. Whereas the the and those sometimes those root canals need to happen. I mean, certainly for the Ninevehites, pretty big root canal to have your whole civilization destroyed. Um but for us on a daily, daily basis, just to kind of normalize what those kind of toothbrushing conversations can look like, certainly us to God, but also us to one another in the in our relationships. And so you know you mentioned family Kate. Um and and so if I I how how many times am I guilty of saying a harsh word or of giving a cold shoulder or not falling through on a promise? Like building it into a habit within the household. And again, it's not done perfectly, but what is it? Progress not perfection is that we talked about, Dina.
SPEAKER_02Yep, progress not perfection.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and part of that is saying, hey, I shouldn't have said that. Um, Olia, will you forgive me? Um having our having our kids practice, hey, you you you just said something pretty harsh to your your sister, and you need to acknowledge that. Um and so then it it just becomes part of the rhythm of, yep, we're all sinners here, but we're we're forgiving people. We're forgiving people and we're forgiving people. Um and and rather than trying to put on the pretense of everything's good. It's not good. Like if we mess up, we need to acknowledge it. And then, like Zach said, repair where we can.
SPEAKER_02That's really good. All
Community, Accountability, And Splash Damage
SPEAKER_02right. What role does community play in helping individuals overcome sin and practice repentance effectively?
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say, Dean, I'm gonna throw it back at you because you were just you were just earlier talking about the people into the community.
SPEAKER_02It's so, gosh. It's the the idea that someone's watching, you know what I mean? And that I think where is where we get stuck in our sin, where no one knows. And Zach talked a lot about splash damage. Um so even if it feels like no one knows or no one is affected, they are. Um the the person that that I know that was addicted to alcohol, in their mind, it was their own problem, their own to deal with, and they weren't hurting anyone else. Like over and over, they would say that to me consistently, and they honestly believed that. Um, but their family was hurting, their work was hurting, not necessarily knowing why, you know what I mean? But there were things getting missed at their work that wasn't like it's little things like that. And so I think the only way that we counter our own sinful nature is with our choices, and those choices become easier when someone's watching. You know what I like? I mean, that's just that. What am I modeling for my children? Like it's hard to say sorry to your kids because you want them to think you have it all figured out. I'm never wrong. I'm never wrong to my children. Um, but they're watching what you do. And so what are you modeling for them? They're watching what you do with your personal choices, what you do with your money, how you treat your friends, you know, how you are in your marriage, all of those things. Um, and so the more community that you have involved in your life and in, you know, that are a part of your ups and downs, like having Zach talked about having his accountability partner, you know, having someone that invested in your ups and downs and your struggles and knowing that helps you, I think, make choices easier that are better choices.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I just think we're Zach said, we're designed to do life together. Like God didn't design us to live in in isolation. He could have, but he didn't. Right.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah, and he he said we we we heal in community, which is the you know, James 515, 516. Confess your sins to one another, pray for one another, that you may be healed. Um, which is slightly different than being forgiven. Forgiveness is what God gives through his grace. Healing is often a process that we experience to get to wholeness. Um, so Kate, you mentioned earlier my youngest, and uh how uh she's not perfect, apparently. So shoot the uh the reason that she got in trouble on Friday at school is my youngest um very much struggles. Like you can see it in her full body when she knows she's done something wrong and she needs to say sorry. Oh my goodness, so much opposition. Um, and so this happened, this happened at school on Friday where I think uh she was coloring a picture and uh the kid next to her had the red marker and there was no other red marker, and so she took the red marker. She was telling me this after the fact. She took it out of his heads, and I was like, Well, Elsie, is it is it okay that you took his marker? He had it's like she's like, It's the only red marker.
SPEAKER_01Of course it's fine.
SPEAKER_03Do you want do you want the picture to suffer?
SPEAKER_01It was a necessity.
SPEAKER_03And uh, so then you know, of course, they get into a little bit of a fight, and then and then uh her teacher, who happens to go to King King's Fremont, so I see her frequently. Um uh I I find I I asked her, I said, Well, how did Elsie do on saying sorry? And she's like, She didn't do it. I was like, ah, that sounds like the girl I know. And she just wiggles out of it, she tries to run away, she likes under her breath, she cries. And sometimes she literally tries to do this.
unknownI sorry.
SPEAKER_03I was like, I did not hear that.
SPEAKER_01Louder.
SPEAKER_03She's like, I already said it.
SPEAKER_01I was like once more for the people in the back.
SPEAKER_03The same story happened fry it happened Sunday afternoon at um at my niece's flag football game, where um I I'm sorry, Elsie, if you're listening to this podcast in 10 years and chances are low. Yeah, that's right. But she was in my mom's car, she threw her iPad, like not a good thing. And I said, Elsie, did you say sorry to grandma? And she said, I don't know. And I said, You need to say sorry to grandma. 20 minutes later, after a full tantrum, and just like, I was like, Oh, you have to wait.
SPEAKER_01Why am I saying it's so simple?
SPEAKER_03I'm connected.
SPEAKER_01Adults do the same thing. They do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I do the same thing. You also throw tantrums and I try to wiggle out of saying I'm sorry for sure. Anyway, any way possible. It's more comfortable just to tell yourself it was deserved. You know, like you deceive yourself, you know? The truth is not in you.
SPEAKER_03That's what the word says, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Um, so the reason I bring this up is that I feel like in this instance, like I was able to kind of see this sort of like community shaping because like Aliyah and I are we're praying for it, we're just doing it. Like, we know the Lord will humble her, like she will get there. It's very painful in the process because one, it's a huge time waste. I'm like, kid, just do it and move on. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_03But it's just a ton of energy, all that sort of thing. Um, and it's we're impatient with it. But to like know that Elsie is getting that same message from a trusted Christian leader now at school. Like, I'm like, okay, this is this is really good for her. This is not just mom and dad trying to drill this down. This isn't just grandma trying to drill this down. No, this is their teachers too. And um, we're all working together. Like, and God and that's like I mean, God does that for all of us, where it's like we're um where he provides leadership and influences and mentors and and guides in different seasons and in different ways to shape us, to lead us to be more like Christ, to humble us, to lead us to repentance so that we can be more like Jesus.
SPEAKER_01And it's such a gift to see other adults that love your kids, like, you know, help nurture them. It just it's a heavy burden to be a parent. And and so when you see this is spread out between more people, and there's other people that adore my children, like what a gift.
SPEAKER_02Amen. Yep. All right.
Practical Repair Steps That Cost Something
SPEAKER_02The message mentions that repentance isn't just feeling sorry, but doing something. What might these practical steps involve?
SPEAKER_03Well, for my youngest, we're just trying to get too sorry right now.
SPEAKER_02But you know what might help? They involve a tantrum, that's right, crying, whispering. They may not be practical.
SPEAKER_01When my kids would try to wiggle out, I'd be like, We're I'm gonna have you write it.
SPEAKER_03Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_01And you know what? Here's a quiet little space that you get all to yourself while you write this down. Because a lot of times then they had the script in front of them, you know, to say it. It was easier to read it off of a paper, you know? And so that was a good stepping stone for my kids. And I actually have some of I saved some of them. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03Oh, and you brought them right here to read on the podcast. That's so great, Kate. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01But I'll like take a picture and send it to them and to my kids in a group chat. And they're like, I'm sure they just delete it.
SPEAKER_02But I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys. It means something to you.
SPEAKER_01I miss your tiny versions of yourselves. But it is, it's a huge life skill. It's a huge life skill that adults are still not good at. You know, we're not, we're definitely not good at saying, I'm sorry, what can I do to rectify this? Yeah. I owe you something. I owe you something. What can I do? Because I want to make it right. And we're not good at that.
SPEAKER_02So um I've taught I've shared on here my uh divorce was a long process. We were in and out of therapy, we were separated together, blah, blah, blah. Through all of my marriage counseling, there was one thing that about this that really stuck with me. One of our counselors said, um, I want you to think about RAMs, R-A-M-S. And I was like, Yeah, I want to ram my fist in his face when like, sorry, this is my sinful nature, but you know what I mean? Like frustrated. But what she what she taught me was to the R A M S stands for something, to recognize, apologize, mobilize, synergize. And so recognize is first that that's doing our inventory that we talked about last week, you know, looking at yourself and figuring out what part did I play in this. And in in our counseling, it was all about the relationship between us. So it was, it was never anything was all one person's fault. There was always shared culpability, you know. So, what was my part in it? Understanding that apologizing, the verbal function of saying, I'm sorry, and recognize, you know, this is what I have done, this is what I am sorry for. Apologize, mobilize, which was to take that action step. Okay, what am I doing now to remedy this situation? But then her fourth part was to synergize. And synergize, I was like, what? Synergize, one of the meanings is to increase activity in. And so it was okay, whatever you've done to mobilize to remedy this, now do that more. Um, because that means something. You know what I mean? And so every situation is different. Like there's what you do to apologize to one person or in one situation is not exactly the same in another thing. But um not ramming my fist into someone's face, but recognize, apologize, mobilize, and synergize was the little um acronym thing that yes, the acronym. That's what it is. That's the word I'm looking for.
SPEAKER_03The moment that you said synergize, I was like, are we in a business consulting class right now?
SPEAKER_02We are, we are. Synergize to me makes me think of a synthesizer. It's not synthesize, but when I hear the word synergize, I always think of like axoless.
SPEAKER_03I there, so I think the that's that's really helpful by the way, Dina. Thank you for sharing that. You know, Kate, you mentioned that like it's not just toddlers, but it's all of us that just really struggle to get to that point. And um, one of the things that I've been reflecting on recently is in any sort of difficult situation, right? My my sinful flesh is gonna lie to me to build a victim narrative where I am I am perfectly scot-free and innocent, and everything that's wrong is due to someone else's mistakes. Yep. And and we talked a little, Zach talked about that the week before that we got to protect ourselves from victim narratives. It doesn't mean that we're never a victim, but it we we do have agency. And like I think where God asks us is to say, well, what can I own up to? What can I own up to? And I think one of the reasons that I can struggle to own up to the things that I need to is that I can often fall into like a fear of humility of, well, what will happen if I choose to humble myself, but the person on the other side doesn't, and I'm taken advantage of that sort of thing. And I wish I could like promise a perfect outcome. All I can promise is the verse I said earlier: God opposes the proud, he gives grace to the humble. How that grace comes and what it looks like, I don't know. But I think a lot of times where there's like especially relational conflict, whether this is in families or in organizations or in churches, that sort of thing, is it's like the vicious cycle of, well, I'm not gonna humble myself because they haven't humbled themselves. And then if I humble myself, but they don't, they're gonna take advantage of me, that sort of thing. And then it can create a vicious cycle down where the opposite is also very possible. Like you could you could create a virtuous cycle up of shared vulnerability and um humility and repentance, where I'm owning up to what I, what I can own up to, you're owning up to what you're like, that's that's the vision for the church in this kind of we're being sinners together. We're not excusing sin, but we're recognizing that sin is real and we're not ignoring it. And so then what does it look like for us to live together, sinners forgiven, reconciled, and reconciling with one another?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's really good. How does humility, as demonstrated by the king of Nineveh, play a crucial role in the process of repentance?
The King Of Nineveh And King Jesus
SPEAKER_02This is where I just kind of what you were saying. Somebody has to go first. And if that's the leader that's going first and saying, Hey guys, this is what we're gonna do.
SPEAKER_01Well, and it what a picture of true repentance. Like he just he had an encounter with the one true God. Like it was without a doubt, he knew he he met God that day. For some reason, that puny sermon that you know, Jonah, it's words that God commanded him to give, or some version close to, as God is a graceful God, but God had prepared the king's heart and he did. He took off his robes, his comfort, which is kind of like he took off his authority. He was saying, like, I'm not the king, I met the king today, and he went face down in the dirt to repent. Um, so that I mean, the book should be named the King of Nineveh, not Jonah, I think. I'm not in charge of naming books in the Bible, though. But that is like maybe the most incredible part of the story that that we need to tell our kids more than about getting swallowed by a whale. Because, you know, yes, that's part of the story. And I know it's not as makes for cool pictures, but that's the story that we need to hold on to.
SPEAKER_03Hungry cows on the facing page, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, everyone, animals included, we're fasting. We just met the true God. Like, that's amazing, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_02Um, I like this is kind of where Zach was talking about. We love Jesus as a savior and we love Jesus as a friend, you know, all of those things. But Jesus as a king, then he gets to tell me what to do. But Jesus as a king was so humble to put himself in a position of sacrifice for us, and that's what the king of Nineveh did for his people too. Um and then how can we follow that humility?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02How does the imagery of Jesus as the ultimate king stepping off his throne enhance our understanding of sacrifice and grace?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's beautiful. That's the gospel. It's um Philippians 2 talks about how Jesus, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God, something to grasp onto or to cling to, but instead he emptied himself and he took on the form of a man, and then he humbled himself to the point of death, and he went death upon a cross. Um and so it like our call to humility and and it's illustrated by the king of Nineveh, who did go first, exactly right, Kate. Um, like it we're following Jesus' lead. And so you think about like a John 13, like Jesus washing the disciples' feet. Why is Peter so offended at that? He's like, You're you're my you're you're my teacher and a rabbi, you're my lord. And he's like, if anybody, like I need to wash your feet. And then Jesus is like, No, I'm actually showing you like the rhythms of the kingdom of God, that like humility is the way forward and serving is the way forward, serving one another in love and care and humility. Um and and so he it, yes, Jesus is our example, but it's what he's done for us that then he works through us as we exercise humility to others in the world.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And I love how I mean, so many people say the God of the Old Testament, the God of the New Testament, like, no, it's one God, it's the same God through the whole scriptures. He is gracious in the entire Bible, and this is another example of his graciousness. He did not, he overturned the city, but he overturned them to claim them for his own. When the Ninevehes thought they were going to be destroyed, their lives were changed for eternity. And the whole Old Testament points to Jesus coming. I mean, it lays the groundwork for what Jesus was going to do and was planned to do of all time. So it's one story, one God, one savior plan, you know, altogether.
SPEAKER_03And the destruction that was awaiting the Ninevites, God relented from because a king stopped off his throne. Likewise, the destruction that awaits all of us, God will relent in his mercy because the king stopped off of his throne and claimed us by his grace.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Foreshadow the end.
SPEAKER_02Read your Bibles. Read your Bibles. All right. So what are your final takeaways from this week's message?
Final Takeaways And Next Week Preview
SPEAKER_02Okay, I have one.
SPEAKER_01Go, go, go. Okay. Um, I loved when Zach started to talk about um how obedience is basically boring, small, consistent steps in the right direction. Like so many times, you know, I'm like, now that my kids are adults, I'm like, oh well, looks like I'm going to bed early on time tonight, you know, which doesn't happen for like 20 years when you have kids in your house. But that's what God calls us to do. Just obey, you know, honor him. It's sometimes it's not exciting and it's not meant to be exciting all the time. It we weren't given new life in him for like an adventure every day. Like, like, no, we're called to obey, we're called to spend time with him, to know his word, to be watchful, to be prayerful. And guess what? You look around and you're like, oh my gosh, like the pe I have the peace of the Lord. I'm content. I, you know, like you're promise the life you're promised is through that long walk in the right direction.
SPEAKER_02I wrote down the exact same thing. Zach said, a holy life is boring, small, consistent steps in the right direction. And then the end was that don't immediately produce gratification. Yeah. So yeah, no adventure, but in the end, lead to the life you want. That's good. Boom. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. The um we kind of hinted at it there, but the he had this, he referenced that seminary professor, and like, how is it interesting? Like, interesting. Like, did God actually change his mind? Can God change his mind? Did God relent this sort of thing? And just the fascinating truth that every time in the scriptures where it says that God either changed his mind or relents, it's always in direction for our benefit. Like he's extending his mercy to us. I was like, that sounds a lot like God. Um, and and so the idea that whether he changed his mind or not, God was mindful of the Ninevites well before they took steps of repentance. God was mindful of us well before we took steps of repentance. Like that's why Jonah got sent there in the first place. It's because God wanted to get his message through. And and just like in in the end, like God goes before us well before we take that first step.
SPEAKER_01And God wanted Jonah too. Yeah, he wanted all of them. And he's you know, he's like trying to show Jonah like you're something amazing's gonna happen in this town if you would just go. And God doesn't say it that way.
SPEAKER_03That was my and preview of this next week. That was the Kate, the Kate translation. That's right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01KST.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say the preview this next week to see how Jonah reacts to the Ninevehites repentance and God relenting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Oh Jonah. This is the part of the story that we don't hear as much, so this is good. Tune in next week, folks, as we continue Sinners Anonymous. And until then, thank you guys for being here. Let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday.
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