Ep. 19 The Importance of Jury Duty

Jury duty is one way citizens can participate in the judicial process and it's vitally important for a number of reasons. Here to explain why you should actively take part in your jury summons are Judge Lee Davies of Williamson County, Judge Stacy Street of Carter County, Judge Valerie Smith of Memphis, and Judge Wyatt Burk of Bedford County. This is a podcast for all audiences, and Barbara Peck is your host. 

Produced by Nick Morgan

Transcript

00;00;00;03 - 00;00;21;11
Host
Welcome to Tennessee Court Talk. I'm your host, Barbara Peck, and today we are talking about jury duty. This podcast is intended for the general public. My first guest is Judge Lee Davies from Williamson County. My second guest is Judge Stacy Street from Carter County in Upper East Tennessee. My third guest is Judge Valarie Smith from Memphis. And my fourth guest is Judge Wyatt Burke from Bedford County.

00;00;21;12 - 00;00;22;22
Host
Welcome to everybody.

00;00;22;26 - 00;00;23;13
Judge Burke
Glad to be here.

00;00;23;13 - 00;00;49;24
Host
Thank you. Thank so. Jury duty. I think that, jury duty. I think when people first get their jury summons and have to go to the court to report for jury duty, their first reaction may not be a positive one. But I wanted to do this podcast because I believe in my fellow Tennesseans, and I think that they just may not understand the importance of jury duty and the function of it in today's society.

00;00;49;25 - 00;00;56;17
Host
So first, Judge Davies, tell me our jury injury jury is still important. And is jury duty still important?

00;00;56;20 - 00;01;02;00
Ret. Judge Davies
Absolutely. I think they're maybe more important now than they ever have been.

00;01;02;03 - 00;01;03;24
Host
Why do you think that?

00;01;03;27 - 00;01;30;04
Ret. Judge Davies
Well, you know, there's kind of a feeling across this nation, I think that maybe the government has got way too much authority. And the jury acts as a barrier and a lot of cases between the government and ordinary citizens. They make the decision as opposed to some bureaucrat.

00;01;30;11 - 00;01;52;20
Host
So I think that's an interesting point, because I don't think people realize that in our our constitutional democracy, there's really two ways that people, regular citizens participate directly. And that's obviously voting. And the second is jury duty. I mean, you can write your congressman or whatever, but that's not that's not necessarily participating directly. So jury duty is an opportunity.

00;01;52;22 - 00;01;56;20
Host
So Judge Burke, tell me a little bit about should jury duty be a point of pride?

00;01;56;23 - 00;02;35;18
Judge Burke
Absolutely. You know, when I think about jury duty, I think about, 12 men and women getting together and deciding someone's guilt or innocence and and how incredibly important that is. And when you talked about, government's role and as Judge Davies indicated, I think about I think was the Gettysburg Address where Lincoln said a government by the people and for the people, well, without jury service, that government is for the people is for those individuals to decide the guilt or innocence of that defendant. But it's also for the defendant. And so I think it's vitally important. Even more so today.

00;02;35;21 - 00;02;43;07
Host
And Judge Smith, so you're a civil court judge that's a little bit different than criminal court. In civil court, what is the role of a jury in a jury trial?

00;02;43;09 - 00;03;03;03
Judge Smith
It's very similar to what you would have in a criminal trial. You know, we we have matters that have to be decided by a jury. Two parties can agree over a civil dispute, and they have a right to a jury trial. Things such as a car accident and health care law ability or a contract matter have a right to a jury trial. And they need 12 citizens to make that decision for them because they can't agree.

00;03;03;09 - 00;03;05;25
Host
And Judge Street, what about in your court? What's the role of the jury?

00;03;06;00 - 00;03;28;01
Judge Street
Well, I think what everyone said is, is correct that, you know, when we do jury orientation, we bring the big panels in, whether it be in, in the first district, we have Carter County, a more populous county in Washington County, and then to mountain counties and Unicoi and Johnson. So we do the jury orientation. I talk about all of these things we're talking about with them.

00;03;28;01 - 00;03;47;22
Judge Street
And, as far as their role, I said, you know, when this state was founded, the country was founded. We didn't want the king or king's appointee making the most important decisions in your life, whether it be life, liberty or your property. And some cases we do that. But the most important ones, we wanted the jury to do that.

00;03;47;24 - 00;04;10;00
Judge Street
You know what I asked them? I said, would you want the governor to decide whether you win, or would you rather have one of your citizens? And then will you talk about, the the voting and participation? I kind of turn that around on, on juries when they come in, I tell them, I said, you know, you rode in here today on good roads, your children with the good schools today.

00;04;10;02 - 00;04;31;04
Judge Street
You laid your head down last not slept well under the the protection of of the government, under the protection of the sheriff's department. And I said, if you think about it, to live in the greatest country in the world, this government asks very little of you, ask you to vote. I ask you to pay your taxes. I ask you to obey the crimes and to serve on a jury.

00;04;31;04 - 00;04;50;10
Judge Street
And that's a small price to pay for all of the freedoms and the privileges we have in this country. So I kind of turn that a kind of shame them a little bit if we can. But it's the truth that's very little that the government asked of us. And jury service is that important. And I want to put that up there with all those other things.

00;04;50;13 - 00;04;56;25
Judge Street
So they have that mindset when they come in because it's that important to us and it's that important to our system.

00;04;56;28 - 00;05;23;01
Judge Smith
I do something very, very similar. Whenever I speak to a large jury panel, which in Shelby County would be both civil and criminal, it's just one big panel that we choose from. And I go maybe a step further and, recognize veterans, have them stand up and say, if you don't want to serve on this jury and you don't want to vote, walk up to one of those men or women standing up and tell them that their service didn't mean anything to you. Today's the day to raise your hand, take your oath and do your part.

00;05;23;04 - 00;05;46;04
Judge Street
This is what I end with on jury and jury orientation. Every one of our counties, we have a veterans memorial. And, they're big deals. And I tell them that if I'm in Washington County, I'll tell the entire panel this is the jury orientation. This is the day they get their summons. They're to report this day, and they've already tried to call everybody they know to get out of it.

00;05;46;06 - 00;06;16;15
Judge Street
And we've told them no. And they come that day. This is what I end with us, you know. Right now there's some young man or young woman in Washington County, Tennessee, that's standing opposed somewhere in this country for you to be here today. And I said, if you've got a reason that you think you need to be excused from jury duty, and I've already gone through all of the ones that I won't except I said, if you if you think you have an excuse, I want you to act like that young man or woman that's standing that that post right now is standing right behind me.

00;06;16;17 - 00;06;34;20
Judge Street
And if that excuse would be good enough for them, it may be for me, but if I don't think it would be good enough for them, it's not going to be for me. And that weeds out a lot of people. That's going to come up and say, well, I've got a bad back or I've got a, you know, my dog's got to go to the vet this week or it weeds a lot of those out. And it really does.

00;06;34;23 - 00;06;39;01
Judge Smith
It does. I sometimes hear audible gasps whenever I say that. And I say, look.

00;06;39;01 - 00;06;40;27
Judge Street
I love the tears. This is the tears.

00;06;41;03 - 00;06;58;21
Judge Smith
Yeah, yeah. So this is this harsh, but it's true. And today's the day to do your part. And we need you here to do it. We didn't invite you here for a good time. We got to have you. We all learned the hard way during the height of Covid that the really important thing you need for a jury trial is jurors.

00;06;58;23 - 00;07;03;02
Judge Smith
And if you don't have them, we can't move cases and we can't get things done.

00;07;03;04 - 00;07;32;09
Ret. Judge Davies
Sometimes, y'all, I'm sure everyone's heard the bogus excuse sent out. Get that early on and, we'll say that's not acceptable. And you can go sit in the box with everybody else, or you can sit in the courtroom for the entire trial, and you'll learn about jury duty, and you make an example out of them. And then that's kind of the end of the excuses for the most part.

00;07;32;11 - 00;07;46;15
Host
So what do you think is there for jurors that are a little bit, nervous about coming? What is the what what do you expect when you say you have to be at the court at 8 or 830, whatever the time is? What what should they expect when they first come into the jury summons?

00;07;46;15 - 00;08;09;03
Judge Burke
So I think that I think that varies greatly between between the counties, various counties or various judicial districts would do jury orientation, and perhaps that would be done on the front end rather than on the on the morning of trial. Many of my counties, which are more rural, we do we do that at the same time as the the start of the jury trial.

00;08;09;03 - 00;08;33;21
Judge Burke
And so, but I think the process is probably very similar. There's going to be, an opportunity for them to come in and check in to ensure that they're on the, the jury panel list. And that's just a simple check in process so that they, they know they're in the right spot. And then there's someone they're usually there to greet them and explain, you know, what courtroom you go to in what, what maybe what seat to sit in or what have you.

00;08;33;24 - 00;08;56;07
Judge Burke
And then typically I would then take over that process and then go into the various questions, on a certain qualification, statutory qualifications to sit as a juror. So, it could, it can't I try to place myself into that juror spot if I'm walking into a courtroom for the first time in many, I for many of these men and women, they've never stepped foot in a courthouse.

00;08;56;10 - 00;09;22;28
Judge Burke
And so it is very intimidating process. And so, our clerks, our judicial assistants try to be there with a, you know, warm smile and, and and just a reassuring presence to say, hey, we understand you're a little nervous, but, you know, come with us, we'll show you what to do next. And so I think it's important, number one, to have someone there to check them in, make sure that's going well, but then also signage and just simple communication, you know, because they just don't know where to go.

00;09;23;00 - 00;09;30;13
Host
So do you have to know anything about the legal system or the case cases before the court before you serve as juror?

00;09;30;28 - 00;09;54;06
Judge Smith
I mean, other than knowing where to go to, you know, the courthouse or something of that nature, the the lawyers are going to ask the questions that they need to ask to find out if you can be impartial in that kind of case. And then your job as a juror is to just listen to the story of whatever the case is as it unfolds, and then listen to the judge as they charge the law to apply to that story.

00;09;54;09 - 00;10;16;24
Judge Smith
And I find that if I tell jurors, look, just think about this like a puzzle. Think about this as you're hearing this part, you're going to hear another part. You've got to figure out how to put it together. And, I once had a juror tell me that being on a jury was most both most one of the most beautiful things he'd ever seen and the ugliest all at the same time, because it really is great to see it all come together.

00;10;16;27 - 00;10;31;02
Judge Smith
And there were a little bit of fights in that jury room, but they they came together and made a decision and once they see how that process unfolds, I've never had a juror tell me anything other than that was one of the most rewarding experiences of their life, and they were glad they got to do it.

00;10;31;05 - 00;10;41;07
Host
So we talked about being asked questions. Obviously when when you get there, the attorneys are going to ask you questions and we call that process, for hour. So what is the point of all those questions?

00;10;41;08 - 00;11;03;20
Judge Street
Well, there's a couple of points. The voir dire is a is a fancy Latin term to tell the truth. And that's all that's required of the jurors. The, the purpose for borders to determine if there's a, potential bias about, that juror or toward this case, or toward one of the parties. It's to the kind of fair at that out.

00;11;03;22 - 00;11;25;07
Judge Street
That's the court's perspective. That's what we want to know. If if there's a cousin, if there's something read or heard or seen about this case, that that they're coming in and that, that does that dovetails into your your previous question. We want jurors that come in know nothing about the case or not enough to sway them one way or the other.

00;11;25;09 - 00;12;05;23
Judge Street
Also, we want jurors to come in that that are not, people that watch NCIS or, Law and Order every single night and think they know everything and know how to do DNA analysis in their own head. But that's the purpose of that board are to see what if they can be fair in the case. I think in some courts, if judges allow attorneys use voir dire to kind of do a pre opening statement to kind of lay the groundwork for their case, and which is fine to a certain extent, but that's that's the purpose to see if those, if this juror is, is a proper candidate to sit on this particular case.

00;12;05;25 - 00;12;09;02
Host
So what kind of questions are jurors typically asked?

00;12;09;04 - 00;12;28;13
Judge Street
First of all, the and I do criminal work and I understand Val deos, but we the other the other of us do criminal work and, you know, the state will stand up and they'll read off a list of witnesses that include the parties and the officers and the witnesses. The first question is, do you know any of these people?

00;12;28;15 - 00;12;37;29
Judge Street
And, you know, in the smaller counties, your office? Yeah, I know Joe. I went to high school with him. You know, I know so and so, he's married to my cousin and things of that nature.

00;12;38;02 - 00;12;39;07
Judge Smith
That happens in big cities, too.

00;12;39;08 - 00;13;00;08
Judge Street
Yeah, it happens a lot, you know? And the next question is, okay, you went to high school with him that doesn’t mean you like him. Do you hate their guts? Is there anything about knowing them that causes you to believe them more than anyone else? So that's that's usually the starting point. Do you know anything? And then my I do I do the initial questions.

00;13;00;10 - 00;13;19;13
Judge Street
Do you know any of the people, have you heard, read or seen anything about this case? And do you have anything in your life for the next day to three, four or week that would prevent you from giving your full and complete attention to this case? And if the answer is no to that, then I turn it over to the lawyers.

00;13;19;13 - 00;13;24;25
Judge Street
If it's yes, then I'll follow up a little bit, and then I'll give the attorneys an opportunity to.

00;13;24;27 - 00;13;42;10
Judge Smith
I ask a few more questions, and then I say, you know, tell me your name. Are you married? You know, what does your spouse do? What do you do? Have you ever been on a jury before? And I do primarily civil civil cases. Every now and then, somebody might have a conflict on a criminal case that they'll send over to me.

00;13;42;12 - 00;14;02;10
Judge Smith
But I we asked questions like, do you have an issue awarding money damages and things of that nature? Because a lot of times people think if they're coming for jury duty, it's only about a criminal case because that's what they see on TV and that's what they hear about. And sometimes I think they're a little disappointed when they get to come over and hear about a car accident.

00;14;02;12 - 00;14;26;00
Judge Smith
But those are things that need a jury as well. So those are the kind of questions you get asked. Have you yourself been in this situation? Do you have any strong feelings about it? Someone asking for money damages to make them whole. Those are the kind of questions that are generally asked just in the beginning about a case like that, or something about money damages.

00;14;26;03 - 00;14;49;18
Ret. Judge Davies
Most of the questioning is usually done by the lawyers, whether it's criminal or civil, and they have a little bit different perspective on what they're trying to get. They're looking for jurors. You're going to identify, with their side, whether it's a civil case or a criminal case, and that's fine. That's what they're supposed to be doing.

00;14;49;18 - 00;15;33;12
Ret. Judge Davies
They're advocating for their client. And, that's where most of the questions will start coming out. And a juror usually, will, as Judge Straight said, tell the truth because they don't know what the objective is. They're just answering the question. And then all of a sudden the lawyer will go, your honor, when you do approach Mr. So-and-so, I don't think you can be fair on this case, but most of the time, if you you take the question back over and just say, now, I know you've told us this, but is that going to prevent you from listening to the facts in this case and deciding fairly and most of them go, no, I'm good.

00;15;33;14 - 00;15;51;07
Host
So during the discussion between the judges and the attorneys, you'll hear the term. They'll hear terms like bias and strike for cause and peremptory challenge. And those can be intimidated. So if you hear those words and you don't get seated on the jury, should you be offended?

00;15;51;10 - 00;15;53;09
Judge Burke
I absolutely, absolutely not.

00;15;53;09 - 00;15;59;03
Judge Street
I've never seen a juror that got to go home that was said, no, I really would like to stay. No, I like to go.

00;15;59;03 - 00;16;22;06
Judge Burke
So I think it's important. And I know all of us at this table make sure that that we try to accomplish challenges outside of the presence of the juror being challenged, because that can get very precarious. Because if, if, if I were to deny a challenge for cause and they know who it came from, then we're creating perhaps a bias.

00;16;22;09 - 00;16;44;18
Judge Burke
And so oftentimes, judges do it differently. But, any challenges for cause, let's say, you know, as I go through the witness list, as was mentioned by Judge Street earlier, and we we identify someone that maybe is is the next door neighbor of the defendant or what have you. Some person has a vested interest in the in the suit.

00;16;44;20 - 00;17;08;14
Judge Burke
We will oftentimes attorneys know in my court to make sure to make that motion, at the bench rather than in. Yeah. Out in the presence of the jury. And so those things do happen now. Now, you said the word peremptory challenges, those typically occur after voir dire has is completed. And then we begin that process. And so and that's done in secret.

00;17;08;14 - 00;17;26;20
Judge Burke
Meaning they do that by paper. And they bring it to, to me for, for to a challenge that those particular jurors. So, it is very important to make sure that they truly shouldn't hear those words as jurors. That's really you just reserve for the court and the part in the litigants.

00;17;26;22 - 00;17;49;00
Judge Street
Those preliminary jury instructions that we have also contain something, just a brief comment about of order. And I do that before we start border. And I say, listen, you know, just because a lawyer strikes you today doesn't, you know, they just taking you wouldn't be a good juror on this particular case. You may be a perfect juror for another case.

00;17;49;03 - 00;18;11;05
Judge Street
And it's the questions like, you know, we have a DUI case and and that jurors dad was a drunk or their child had a DUI. And they wouldn't be a good juror on a DUI case, but on a burglary or something to that effect, they would be just fine. So you kind of let them know that at the beginning, cause cause challenges are pretty evident.

00;18;11;07 - 00;18;30;29
Judge Street
You know, that's my first cousin sitting there over the prosecuting officers married to my sister. Those are they they get that jurors are are very smart. They know if we're going to let them go for a while peremptory. We don't give them a reason. We just simply say jurors two and four are excused callback on such and such date.

00;18;31;02 - 00;18;56;12
Judge Street
They can usually get that to, And I think what Judge Davies said is, is really, really true about what lawyers are trying to do. I, you know, all lawyer, all lawyers and judges have we don't have buildings to look at or finished products. We just got more story. So, you know, I'm sure we'll hear a few more stories, but, two weeks ago, I try to First-Degree murder, the death of a four year old child.

00;18;56;14 - 00;19;21;21
Judge Street
The father was accused of killing the child, but the mother was not. So the defense made a strong point of trying to kick off every woman off that jury that they possibly could. It was pretty evident. And so finally, the state made a Batson challenge of saying it was a discriminatory process that they were using, and it wasn't quite to the level that that we look for yet.

00;19;21;21 - 00;19;52;19
Judge Street
But it's a good breast cancer. You can give me a reason why you exclude the next one. Well, they didn't exclude any more, but I think some of that gamesmanship kind of goes into that. That person may not be biased, but in the mind of the attorney, they they're looking for a certain composition of that jury. Our laws prevent striking all African-Americans, you know, or all females or males or some, distinct class.

00;19;52;21 - 00;20;04;22
Judge Street
But, a lot of that goes on and a lot of it's just guessing by the attorneys as to what they think they're juror their jury supposed to look like to be most favorable to their son.

00;20;04;24 - 00;20;12;14
Host
So what kind of concerns do potential jurors usually bring to the court and how do you address them? What are some of the common concerns?

00;20;12;16 - 00;20;38;28
Judge Smith
Parking? Say that it is an issue, often have jurors say, oh my gosh, I parked on a meter or I'm going to I'm afraid my car is going to get booted or something. And so that or often I'll have people say, you know, well, I have and this is just a really practical thing. You know, I take medication, I have to use the restroom often, or I'm diabetic, I have to take my medication.

00;20;39;00 - 00;20;56;19
Judge Smith
And those are the kind of things that I think if, if you just look kindly and say, will let us know what your issues are, we'll take care of them. You know, you just got to tell us and also give those jurors the opportunity if they do have an issue to say something personal like that, let them come up and talk to you and tell you what it is.

00;20;56;19 - 00;21;15;05
Judge Smith
And and if it's something we can accommodate, we're going to I think that's probably true of every trial judge in the state. You know, somebody needs to take their medication at a certain time. We're gonna take a break and let you take that. But those are usually the the concerns that I have are really real world things, or I've got to pick up my child.

00;21;15;05 - 00;21;24;25
Judge Smith
I've got to do, you know, whatever they need to do in their normal lives. It's not that they're not wanting to serve. They just need to know that they can also accomplish their everyday tasks.

00;21;24;28 - 00;21;47;18
Ret. Judge Davies
Yeah, I childcare, as you said. And, sometimes you get older jurors who go, my husband's at home and I'm the person who takes care of him, and I'm not sure how I can work that out. That's a pretty legitimate excuse. You you ask questions. Is there anybody else who can help help you do that?

00;21;47;18 - 00;21;55;19
Ret. Judge Davies
But sometimes it's no. And then you pretty much have to let them go. It's. No, I have no good answer for that one.

00;21;55;27 - 00;22;23;18
Judge Burke
I think it's I think it's important to note to and those that are listening to this podcast, I'd want them to understand to to not to not be afraid to explain to that judge if they do have some need that they can serve. But perhaps, you know, I've, I've had this happen before a trial where maybe they had a, you know, back procedure recently and maybe they just need to stand, you know, once, once every hour just to stretch.

00;22;23;20 - 00;22;48;20
Judge Burke
It's it's doesn't offend me whatsoever. If a juror says Judge Burke, I don't mind serving. But, you know, if once an hour, if we make sure that we stand up and stretch, I'll just say, hey, you just raise your hand and I'll find an appropriate time to take a break. And and we'll accomplish that. So we we as judges, we want to know if there's some things that we can assist you with while you're serving, because we want you to get that that ability to serve and give back.

00;22;48;20 - 00;22;52;02
Judge Burke
But we also want to meet you in the middle and figure out those things that you need.

00;22;52;02 - 00;23;17;18
Ret. Judge Davies
Could I ask the I like to ask the other judges this question, because I'm a traveling judge and I see different things in different courtrooms. Do you ever get a situation where the jurors come in with these letters from the doctor? But it's the same doctor. I mean, this guy is just making a mint. I had I ran into that at Jackson, where, I mean, this is the same doc, same form letter.

00;23;17;21 - 00;23;23;20
Ret. Judge Davies
You know, because of this condition, I do not think miss So-and-so would be able to handle jury duty. I'll get anything like that.

00;23;23;20 - 00;23;43;10
Judge Street
We had a rash of irritable bowel syndrome up in the first district. I like how we cured that real quick. I called the doctor in and said, let me tell you something. We have bathrooms here, so we're going to acute. We have to accommodate that. And, but absolutely, the doctors make a fortune when those jury summons are delivered.

00;23;43;12 - 00;24;04;11
Judge Street
And then I'll answer your other question, and I want the other judges because that's a that's a great question. I get I get pay concerns, especially at that initial jury orientation. A lot. You know, my employers told me to come here and told me to get out of jury service because I'm their most invaluable employer. I'm their most valuable employee, and or I'm not going to get paid.

00;24;04;11 - 00;24;12;12
Judge Street
So that's a concern that I see most often. The, I like his question, though. I like the doctors make a ton of money.

00;24;12;12 - 00;24;35;15
Judge Smith
Yeah. I, you know, being in a large area like Memphis, I do see a lot of the same doctors. But I also did personal injury work for about ten years, so I know most of the doctors around. So I know most of the people that need to be writing a letter like that. So I haven't seen quite what you're talking about in Shelby County, but I did see it in private practice.

00;24;35;15 - 00;24;41;28
Judge Smith
I heard about it then up in some of the more rural areas, so I know it goes on. I haven't personally seen it in Shelby County, but.

00;24;42;01 - 00;25;18;24
Judge Burke
So Judge Street to try to address some of the concerns because I've had that same thing. I've had people come to me and say, judge, I, I really don't need to miss miss work today. And so and I'll ask him why there may be some issue with their employer. So, I've, I've always task test my clerks to make sure to, to create a kind of a checklist or, you know, statutory letter that describes the duties of the employer so that if they did have a juror that ran into that situation, they could be given a copy of that letter and take it back to their employer and say, you know, and I'm not

00;25;18;24 - 00;25;35;27
Judge Burke
saying that employers has ill will, but perhaps they just don't understand their role as an employer and how that folds into jury duty to make sure if they have X number of employees, they do have to pay them for that time. And so now in the flip side of that coin, is that that $11 check was going to go to the employer, right?

00;25;35;27 - 00;25;44;18
Judge Burke
So, to help alleviate that, we do kind of provide some type of letter that lets employer know, here's your responsibilities.

00;25;44;20 - 00;26;03;09
Judge Street
We got a problem up there in our little corner of this beautiful state because, you know, Virginia and North Carolina are both a stone's throw away. So we a lot of people that work either in Virginia or North Carolina who are not subject to our laws of paying them. So we have to ferret that out sometimes, too.

00;26;03;09 - 00;26;22;13
Judge Street
About you know, we have no power to make them pay, nor any power to to sort them into court, to scare them to death, to make sure they understand. So, a lot of those people we led, we, we excused from jury duty simply because they're not going to get paid, period.

00;26;22;15 - 00;26;35;02
Host
So once the jury is set. So we have selected our jury, we've got our, you know, jury in the courtroom. What is the role of the jury in a typical proceeding? What are they? What are they tasked with doing?

00;26;35;04 - 00;27;09;05
Judge Smith
Listening to everything that it said and following the instructions that the judges give? You know, there's a section of the instruction book after a jury is selected and sworn in, then you it's I think it's titled after voir dire before trial. And you go through and read to them what they're charged with doing. And one of the biggest things that I think anybody listening to this, I always try to make sure people know, is one of the things everybody's instructed to do is the lawyers are instructed not to talk to anybody on the jury.

00;27;09;07 - 00;27;24;27
Judge Smith
You know, if you see someone and it's a natural thing, especially here in the South, to say, hey, how are you? Well, those lawyers are probably gonna run away from you if they see you, because they know if I see them talking to them, then there's going to be problems. And you don't want any appearance of impropriety at all.

00;27;24;29 - 00;27;39;06
Judge Smith
So basically, after after a jury is selected, sworn in, their job is to listen. And if there's any exhibits that they're passed to you to look at those, they're allowed to take notes during testimony. But mainly it's just to listen.

00;27;39;09 - 00;28;02;09
Judge Street
I tell them what they once they're sworn, they will come just exactly like I am. They become a judge. And and of course, in the criminal cases, and they're the exclusive judge of the facts of the case, and they're read that in the preliminary jury instructions. They're they're read that in the final jury instructions. And I let them know that, you know, you're you're you're the only judge of the facts of this case.

00;28;02;09 - 00;28;24;21
Judge Street
So if this if the light is red or green, you decide that. And we, we tackle that question at the beginning. It's like, oh, I'm not comfortable judging someone. And I answer that. I don't give the lawyers a chance. I said, listen, you judge somebody every single day. You judge your children, you judge your spouse, you judge your coworkers when they come in and tell you something.

00;28;24;24 - 00;28;44;04
Judge Street
You look at them, you look at their their mannerisms. You look at, you know, if you ask your son, you know, did you eat that cookie? And he says, no, no, I did not, daddy. And he's got chocolate chip coming down his mouth. Or, you know, you've had three people tell you ate that cookie. That's how you judge somebody.

00;28;44;04 - 00;29;01;20
Judge Street
And I said, you do the same thing in this case, you're the exclusive judge of the facts, and you're the judge of the law. Under the direction of the court. And and once they see that you sometimes you see the light bulb go off, you thinking, oh, well, wait a minute here. You know, I got to listen. I've got to pay attention.

00;29;01;23 - 00;29;04;27
Judge Street
And I've got I've really got an important role in this.

00;29;05;00 - 00;29;26;06
Ret. Judge Davies
Yeah. I think that it's, if you can do that, we have to realize what these jurors, for the most part, are probably intimidated by the whole process. And especially you, the judge. And so I try to get them to relax and and, hey, we're we're a team here. And I know the lawyers can't talk to you, but I'm always glad to talk to you.

00;29;26;06 - 00;29;44;04
Ret. Judge Davies
If you have a question or how are you doing in the next, you know, a check in on them in the morning. See, everybody's doing. And if you kind of build that rapport, the jury, they want to do their job the right way. But if you treat them like some type of second class citizen, that will not go.

00;29;44;04 - 00;29;59;07
Host
Well, so are the decisions that they make. You said they decide the facts in the case, Judge Street, or are the decisions that the jury makes are they important or is the judge going to overturn them, or is the appellate court just going to overturn them?

00;29;59;10 - 00;30;19;21
Judge Street
Rarely. That's the power we give the juries in the state of Tennessee. And, maybe one time in ten years of I ever as the third teacher, not agreed with the verdict of the jury because, you know, they're flaws in the system, but it's still that's still the best Fact-Finding body that we have as a juror.

00;30;19;21 - 00;30;41;29
Judge Street
So, I think, both by the judge that hears the case and also the strength that our appellate opinions give a jury verdict. I think the opposite is true. You're you're going to see very few, circumstances where a jury verdict is overturned.

00;30;42;01 - 00;30;44;29
Ret. Judge Davies
In fact, if it's overturned, it's usually the judges.

00;30;45;04 - 00;30;47;10
Judge Street
Know the judge has messed something up.

00;30;47;12 - 00;31;09;14
Judge Smith
And it's it's an incredibly high standard. I think we've all all of everybody that tries jury cases will have those motions to undo it. You know, I, judgment notwithstanding the jury verdict or something to that effect we've all had. I've never had the occasion to go in behind a jury and second guess what they're doing.

00;31;09;17 - 00;31;23;15
Judge Smith
There's there's cases on it, and people try to force people, lawyers who maybe didn't prevail or didn't get quite what they wanted, try to stretch those cases to come in and, and maybe have a little bit of a second bite at the apple. But it's that's the rare situation.

00;31;23;15 - 00;31;42;15
Host
Okay. So tell me a little bit about we'll end with this question. How you see the jurors attitudes evolve typically. I mean, because you work with jurors every day or just about every day, for the time they come in for from a jury, sometimes it's the first day. How does their attitude usually evolve by the time they are done serving as an actual juror?

00;31;42;17 - 00;32;02;29
Judge Smith
Well, and I said something about that earlier. I've had jurors tell me everything from, you know, this is beautiful yet ugly to I once had a juror tell me that serving on a jury had renewed his faith in the country. He said, you know, I, I did not want to be here. I did not want to stay. Thank you for making me stay.

00;32;03;02 - 00;32;24;10
Judge Smith
Whenever you and I don't know how it the courtroom setup is probably similar. You know, when I'm leaving the jury, it's like my friends are leaving. I'm standing at the back door, shaking hands, giving hugs. You know, thanks for being here. And they're usually very happy at that point and are happy that they were part of the team that that got something done.

00;32;24;10 - 00;32;38;13
Judge Smith
You know, we got a case resolved today. We got something done and we couldn't have done it without you. So my experience as a jurors have been transformed into believers at the time. They believe in how important the system is, and they were glad to be part of it.

00;32;38;14 - 00;32;40;25
Host
Judge Burke, what do you usually see in your courtroom?

00;32;40;25 - 00;33;07;01
Judge Burke
Typically I see those that come in, that haven't served before. They're very apprehensive, but by the end of the process, they're very relaxed. They're talking to their neighbor, their fellow jurors, their neighbors, and, and, typically or always send them a little letter after they serve and tell them, thank you for for their service. And there's, there have been times I've passed someone in the grocery store and they've said, you know, Judge Burke, I got your letter.

00;33;07;01 - 00;33;28;26
Judge Burke
Thank you so much for that. But they'll also say, you know, I was scared to death when I walked into that courtroom. But after I served, you know, I really enjoyed that. I found that interesting. I've yet to run into one person that said that was the worst experience of my life. And so oftentimes when I get in a new jury panel, I'll I'll often ask them, as a collective group, you know, has anyone ever served on a jury before?

00;33;28;29 - 00;33;48;27
Judge Burke
And you know, many, not many, but some will raise their hand and I'll say, now, I want you guys to look around. They survived that process, and they're here to talk about it. And that usually brings some levity to the situation. And they realize, okay, I can do this. So yeah, it I had never experienced one where they've said, that's the worst experience of my life.

00;33;48;29 - 00;33;50;24
Host
Judge Street.

00;33;50;26 - 00;34;16;01
Judge Street
I'll mirror what my what my colleagues say. You know, they come in and they've already tried their best to get out of service. They call the clerks, they call my office. And, you know, they're all told the same thing. I'm sorry you have to be there. Judge Ross jokes. Sometimes when she does the orientation in the other counties, she's like, you know, if you come to Judge Street courtroom, you better have the organ, the organ donor cooler beside of your because that's the only way he's going to let you out.

00;34;16;01 - 00;34;35;28
Judge Street
And so we laugh about that. But, when they leave, I do the same thing. We, we pass those cards out thanking them for their service. You know, we brought them a little handwritten note and hand it to them when they leave at the end of the trial date. And, I've yet to see one that have said, you know, I hate this.

00;34;35;28 - 00;34;54;17
Judge Street
They're all like, well, you know, that's interesting. Or, thank you, thank you. We see what you do now. So, I think it's they come in with one one perception and they leave with another. And, I think we as judges, if we do it correctly, that's exactly how it's supposed to be.

00;34;54;19 - 00;34;55;10
Host
Judge Davies.

00;34;55;17 - 00;35;30;25
Ret. Judge Davies
I think, it's interesting, all of these jurors, for the most part, they come in as strangers to each other. And the longer the trial goes, there is a much greater chance that they will form a bond with one another. And sometimes friendships that go beyond the jury duty, because they're all, you know, have the same goal working together to come up with their verdict. And that whole process when it's over is very satisfying to them.

00;35;30;29 - 00;35;46;06
Judge Smith
I think we did have a, you know, some jurors, single people get married after sequester jury in Shelby County. That's a whole it's happened. It's happened. So if you're single and available, jury duty might be for you.

00;35;46;09 - 00;35;53;09
Host
Okay. We'll end on that note, so please do. Yes. Thank you for joining us for this edition of Tennessee Court Talk.