The Duratus Mind - Shanaze Reade - 9 x BMX and Track World Champion

In this episode Shanaze shares with us what it took her to become such a talent at such a young age.  She opens up about what it's like to carry the pressure of thousands, how the wheels fell of her ride in GB cycling and the depths that she sank after her Olympic dreams were crushed.  She then explains how she pulled herself back from the darkest days she has ever known, to where she is now thriving in her next chapter.

Follow Shanaze on Instagram and Twitter at @ShanazeReade

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Okay, Chine's Reed, episode twenty-one, I think, of the Duratus Mind podcast today. Um very grateful for you being on. Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

No, thank you. It's a pleasure to be on the podcast and just to share my journey and hopefully someone gets something from it.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Yeah, well that's it for me as well. I said at the start, um, just talking off camera, I like to kind of lay out what this podcast is for me. For me, very much it's a bit of a journey to understand all this, you know, why people, certain people are successful in their field. I find it fascinating. Um and it seems other people quite like to listen. I'm sure there's gonna be lots of uh people that get a lot from it. So um some people may be familiar um with your backstory, some people may not. Do you mind just uh introducing yourself a little bit and explaining a little bit of what your um little journey to where you are now? Uh what's what that's involved.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Um I always I I always find this a little bit awkward to to talk about, I guess, a little bit of a summary about who I am and what I've done. Um but I guess essentially I'm a a former BMX athlete that went to two Olympic Games in 2008 and 2012 in London. I am multiple world champion, I think it's nine times world champion both in track cycling and in BMX. Um it's not been a straightforward journey not like nobody else's has, um, and I've achieved things that I never thought was imaginable on and off the bike.

unknown 2:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

So appreciate that. And again, so I'm talking to someone today who knows how to be a champion, right? And and that's important to some people. Um so I'm gonna I'm fascinated by that personally. I'm really interested in in what what what it was that drove you to kind of go into that, and we'll we'll unpick that as we go. So um I've done a little bit of digging, done a bit of uh internet stalking over the last few weeks, and um I know that you came into BMX in BMX racing relatively young, about 10 years old, is it something like that? And uh 10, yeah. 10. And um you have you found success quite quickly, didn't you? What how did you find BMX and and and what do you think the initial success was down to?

SPEAKER_04 2:47

I think for me I always loved all sports. Like I was just, I guess, back then if you know ADHD didn't have a label, um, but I was just called a bit of a pain by my family. Um I just had all this energy and just wanted to be active. Like as soon as I woke up to the moment I went to bed, I was just buzzing continuously. Um, so mm we my family or my mum and my nan and granddad tried to put me into as many different things as I could. Yeah, um, so I tried all different sports and and I loved sport, like I just loved the the element where you could push yourself, the competitive nature of it. Um and then my uncle's two children did BMX and he said, Do you want to come to the BMX track? And I didn't even know the BMX track existed in crew and it had been there from the 80s. Like um, so I went yeah, back in the day. Um I went along and hired out a bike for a pound and the kit, and I just I just remember, even now, like it's like nearly 20 years ago, going back home and just thinking, Wow, like I really, really like that sport. I love the the vibe, there was all volunteers there, there was a barbecue, there was music going, and everyone was just like friendly, and I was just like, I belong, this is where I belong. So yeah, I just fell in love with it instantly.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

So, not a lot of people know this. We've chatted about it just before as well, but back in the 80s when the crew circuit was probably um built, I was BMXing a little bit. I tried to dig them out for today. I tried to get my third place trophies that I had from probably about 84 or 85, thinking about it. I was only about six or seven years old. Unfortunately, couldn't I blame my dad for that? He's throwing them all out, which uh Devo. But uh I'm similar in the sense of I played a lot of sports growing up, and I think that's part of the reason why I've been so driven in certain things that I've had some form of success in. Um, and what other sports, do you mind me asking what like what the sports had you tried that hadn't really gripped you as much?

SPEAKER_04 4:42

Before BMX, and actually for the first year or two years, I actually did athletics. Like I was uh for me, it was all sports that were cheap. Like I come from a background that didn't we didn't have a lot of money. My mum had me at 17, um my nan and grandad, my nan was a cleaner, and my granddad was a plasterer, really hard workers, but just you know didn't earn great amounts of money. So everything that I did was cheap. Like, so you know, athletics also need is a pair of trainers and just run fast. So it was it was the perfect sport. I did boxing because my granddad was all about being I think he treated me like he I was his grandson, not his granddaughter, which was it was good because he he taught me mental resilience, he taught me to stand up for myself. Um so all the kind of sports I gravitated towards were all the things that were kind of like tough and like um you know I had to be able to defend myself and that hence why I did boxing and I did athletics, I did all sorts of different sports. I did taekwondo, I did gymnastics, I did yeah, any any sport that I could do I would try as long as it was cheap. Like as long as the price bracket was in about three pounds for a session, I was there.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Um, and all of them sports were so so you were conscious of that when you were young that sort of money was an issue and you couldn't ask to do stuff that was probably gonna be too expensive. Is that something you were aware of?

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Yeah, I think it was something I was aware of, but I think it was almost like I don't know, like them them sports that were a bit more underground, a bit more grungy, that people wasn't necessarily doing that interested me because I was always different. I felt like from a very young age, like I was wired up a little bit differently to my friends. Like I would just I mean, I'd just go to the car boot on a Sunday and just start digging through stuff to be able to like when I was doing BMX to be able to think right, if I can go to car boot and make a couple of quid on selling on these items. I was doing that from the age of 10, like I was just not quite wired up right.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

But if there was a world championships in car booting, you'd be right up there, right?

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Oh yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

That could be my next career path. Maybe that's something will come on to that end. So uh sport then continued, you got quite quick success in in EMX. And can you tell people that haven't struck you on Wikipedia just sort of how quickly that success came and what happened?

SPEAKER_04 6:56

Um so I started in 1999 and in 2000 um I went to my first European championships. I could it was uh that was a battle in itself. Like I always travelled alone to to these to all my events. My family never went, so I just like bunk in with someone who could give me a lift and I could like put my one-man tent up and camp out, whereas everybody else was kind of in hotels and preparing for the race. And I went to France and had my little one-man tent, and I was camping on the field, and it was absolutely hammering it down. And I was just so excited to be at an event where there was loads of people because the more people there was, I was all all about pressure. Like, if there was the more pressure there was, the more I got out of myself. So I seen these thousands of people in the grandstands, and I was just like, it's game on, like I'm excited to race. Um, and I become European champion after it was about 11 months in total, then I become European champion. So success came pretty quickly, but I was obsessed from day one. Like it was even though I'd like tight not a lot of time under my belt, I would literally like get up at three in the morning before school, go and do some training, come home, lift sandbags, like do anything I possibly could to be the very best that I could. Um, and then success came.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

This is it. So people see on paper overnight success, and the reality is very different to that, isn't it? That there's like hard work self-disciplines from from the off, really, because there's something that you really gravitated to towards, you were passionate about it, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:25

Yeah, 100%. And my granddad always said there's no shortcuts, there's no shortcuts to any place worth going. Um, and there definitely isn't. Like, no matter what you do in life and and want to be successful at it, there's no quick path, there's no quick fix. And if there is, it's not been built on fundament like strong fundamentals. And yeah, I think from uh like I said, my granddad is my rock, like he's that my role model, um, and he instilled things in and beliefs into my system from a very young age that have have led me through my years now.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I love that, I love that. There's so many people that have got that connection to somebody that has driven them internally, in intrinsically motivated, they'll call it, rather than being extrinsic, you're doing it to try and uh please them in some ways, but also kind of make them proud as well, you know, of pursuing this. I know I've I'm I'm the same with most things I've done. You know, my my my dad was not pushy at all into any sport, but kind of encouraged me to do as much. And there's that's certainly a part of it. Things that he'd said that kind of got in my mind, and actually this is kind of a mantra that I've I've carried through, you know. You like your granddad saying, Nothing nothing worth having comes easy. It's like so true, isn't it? It's hard work, you know. That's the thing that makes the difference. And a common theme of all this Duratus Mind podcast is recognising that it's the hard work that people have to put in to get the growth out the back end. You know, people are often looking for hacks, and hacks don't really exist in the real world if you want true success or something you value anyway. So how old are you then at when you European championship? So it was eleven. Yeah, so it was eleven.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

And I think just going back a little bit to what contributed to why I was so driven, it was my granddad, and he was phenomenal in and and being like the father role, but I think it really boils down to my dad, like who I don't give him the title as a dad because I feel that's earned, and he didn't earn that title, um, but he gave me great genetics, which I'm gr I'm really grateful for. But I think him being the way he was towards my mum, not being a great human being, being quite abusive. Um, I think oh I know that I always had in the back of my mind I will never be a failure like he was, and that just was always in my mind at every before every final. Like I was like, I've been given this gift of of genetics and the work ethic and everything else, and I was like, I will not fail because he he was a failed footballer because he drank and he was just a womanizer, and I was like, No, I've been given this, and I'm gonna go as far as I can with the talent and the gift that I've been given. Um, so I think subconsciously he was my biggest driving force.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Subconsciously then, but now it's very conscious, right? You've thought about it a lot. And again, there's a lot of people that could use experiences like that to bury themselves in the sense of experiences that they've had in the past that can be used as powerful motivators, like you've just described. Again, that's the the duratus mind is exactly that recognising those struggles that you've had being used as energy and fuel to go and do what it is that you want to do, because yeah, 50% of your genetics from your dad and great genetics, but equally 50% of those great genetics are from your mum, and your mum must have been your support through that. Again, how was she with the the sport and off you know, 11-year-old going off to France? You know, my mum would be petrified.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

Um it's funny you say that. No, no, she wasn't really like I've got a great relationship with my mum now, but bear in mind she had me at 17 or got pregnant at 16 and had me at 17. I was just the like a I was on a solo run from a very young age, and I could be in other countries and my mum not have a clue where I was. Like she really loves and cares about me, don't get me wrong. But I was just like, like like if we go on into the story, like at the age of 12, I went to America on my own and raced the world my first world championships, and yeah, she was supportive in terms of like, Oh, I hope you're alright, and and but the same for my whole family. Like, people think, oh, like no, you know, my granddad was really supportive and everything, but he never was bothered that I did BMX, he just wanted me to be happy, the same as now. Um, he never like tried to push me or showed a massive interest in what I was doing. I was just like this kid from Crew, kind of on a solo run to be as successful as I could be in BMX. And yeah, my granddad would, yeah, he'd be there like saying, and each world championships I'd win, I'd won the European Championships when I was 11. Phoned him on the phone and was like, I've won the European Championships, and he would be like, Yeah, but there's someone else better than you out there that just wasn't there that day. And it was kind of like tough love, um, but it's been like that kind of like that that was the kind of the setup. Like I was just this, I was just so driven, and I don't know what it was, and I feel like you know I'm I'm I'm into like higher power and everything else, and I'm sure and I'm sure like my higher power looked looked out for me from day one, really, because it just shouldn't have happened on paper, like it, but it did.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah, yeah, it was phenomenal success at such an young age that even comments like that I can relate to that in the in the sense of never getting full praise for the success you've had. It was like, okay, so now what? Now what's next? There's someone around the corner, and um I I listened and spoke to quite recently Stuart Pierce, um England football uh legend, really. And when he got his first cap, he got he was called into the office. Uh Brian Clough, famous um hard-nosed manager of the of the day, called him into his office and said, Oh uh Pearcy, um I hear that you've been called up to the England squad. Yeah, good effort. You know, you think you think you're good enough to play for England Days? He's like, Well, I hope so. He goes, Do you think you play good enough to play for Nottingham Forest? He goes, Well, I don't know about that, Boss. And he goes, Yeah, neither do I get back out there. And it was this little story about how actually just you know always fanning the flames of ego for people isn't always the way to get the most out of them. Stuart Pierce definitely speaks about that experience from Brian Clough as a way that he was motivated to prove his gaffer wrong. And again, it's like words of f of advice from your granddad, you know, it's like, well, he could have been, oh, that's amazing, well done, and you know, you're the best ever. Come back, and all this big praise. And well, he's like, What's next? And who there's someone out there that didn't turn up, and you've got to be better than them, and that that works as well, right? So, European champion at 11, world championships uh when you were 12 years old over in America, then so how did that.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

Yeah, so in BMX, you have like an amateur uh world championship for like age categories. So, like I was the 11-year-old world champion, uh European champion. So I go out to so I said to my mum, uh, I said, Remember, she took me for an Indian, and I remember it clearly in crew for a seller to celebrate that I'd become European champion. And we were sat there and she was I started earning a little bit of sponsorship, and she wanted to take me out and pay for my meal, but we got to the bill and I'd eaten quite a lot of food and she was like looking at me, and I thought, she hasn't got enough money here, so I can I I paid for that and we would and I was chatting, I said, Mum, I really, really want to be world champion. Like, I'll I just like I'm European champion now, and I know that the girl who got second to me got world number two the year before, and I beat her easily. I said, I need to go to the world championships, and she said, Where are they? and I turned around and said, They're in Australia, and she was like, Okay, we can't afford we literally can't afford it in the time frame that we've got, and she said, She said, Where are they next year? And so she was thinking I'd say Europe in Europe, and I turned around and said, Louisville in America, and she was like, Right, okay. So she said, At least we've got time, like at least we've got time. So she wasn't a no, yeah. Um, so she did to be fair to her, she did absolutely everything. She went, she wrote to the local newspapers, the police ended up getting involved, um, doing fundraises for me. Yeah, and they they they got all this money together, and the cost of the flight and the cost that came up was okay, we've got all this money, but we haven't got enough to send you your mum or someone with you. I was like, that's all right, I'll go on my own. So I so I said, so I said, I'm gonna go to America on my own. So I I only had a chaperone just to because I had a connection flight. So there was like we they paid for like a chaperone to connect me to the next flight, and from there I went to to stay with a family that I'd known in BMX. And going out there, I I was just like, I need a new set of wheels, and because I'd been starting to do jumps and like my wheels were getting trashed. And um, I said to my granddad, like, I need a new set of wheels. He says, Well, I haven't got any money. I've like, I've I've you know, I've used my last bit of money I've got for you. So we went to the skip. He was going to the skip and he was dropping his stuff off from his plastering job that he was doing, and he said, Um, why don't you go and have a look around to see if you can see any wheels? Now, if anybody knows, BMX isn't, you know, you need a good set of wheels on your bike that you know they're the they're your essentials. But I found some on a on a like an a chopper, like an old, like an old bike. So I was like, that great. Like I didn't really know what was good and what was bad. So I I took these wheels, went to America with them on my bike. I thought they were great. Everybody was laughing. I won, I won everything all day long. Got to the final, was winning the final easily. Um, and just before the finish line, I felt like I was going through like quicksand. Like, I was like, what the hell is happening? Like I'm slowing down and I'm pedalling as hard as I could. And I got passed on the line and got a photograph finished, and she and I got ended up getting second. And the wheels that I'd got, the bearings had just like like all come out of this battle out of these wheels and like seized up, and I was just like, it was like pedalling through quicksand. Um, but there I knew that if I was going to a world championship again, there was not no chance that I was ever going to be beaten, and luckily I never was.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

So you uh you got second place on a grifter, basically, yeah, rally grifter for those that can remember those. Yeah, yeah, I'm on my own there. Um so that that's awesome. Um, and then and from that point on, you it was just skyrocketing to the top of the the BMX world ultimately. I mean, just and again, we'll jump into some of the more prominent ones, but so how many times have you been European world champion? Do you know? I I looked on Wikipedia, it's pretty complicated with the amateur pro levels, there's a ton of times basically.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

Yeah, so I've been nine times world champion. Um I I even forget, like I have to count them back because I forget the amateur and then and then this time trial that got put into so altogether it's nine times world champion and two times um world champion in track cycling. Um and European champion, I I wouldn't even know. I mean it's I've probably 10 or 11 times, I think. Um, and some years I couldn't go without in injuries, and again, that's in my BMX. Every world championships I entered, bar one, I won. Like, so yeah, it wasn't a bad a bad run, really. So recently British champion on the track? Yeah, so that that kind of came out of the blue in a sense. I'd retired from cycling in 2015, completely called it a day, um, with injuries and and just mentally just absolutely burnt out. Um, and I decided, oh, like when I retired, I I I will get into that, but I went in a bit of a dark place. Um, and anyway, I come out of this dark place and I was started to become an ambassador for British cycling and HSBC. And the new performance director, um Stephen Park, had seen me and other people had seen me and was like, God, like you look so different. Like, you look in better shape now than you looked when you ever in the whole of your career. Um, they were like, What, like, what is it? Because I it was a running joke, I was always on a diet of British cycling, like my weight was always unmanageable, but I didn't care really because I was winning, so I was just like, whatever, like I'm happy. Um so they seen me and they were like, Well, like, would you consider coming back? And I was just like, No, absolutely not. Like, it's taken me this amount of years to finally sort of get a little bit of an understanding of who I am, yeah, and start building, you know, pathways in my new career, which wasn't cycling related. So I was like, No, definitely not. Um, so they asked me a second time, he's he asked me again, like a few months later. He was like, you know, I think it'd be really good for you. Would you would you want to? And I was just like, no. He asked me the third time, and I was like, I remember when I was in my dark place and and I was drinking alcohol and masking things out that I had unfinished business in terms of not successes, but it was in terms of like how I ended the last part of my career, the way it ended. I didn't end it with my dignity, I was starting to become late for things, I was starting to lose the love for the sport, um, and I just sat really wrongly with me. Like, I would just sit there and be thinking, why after all them years of like relentless effort, and and and I was like, you know, like on it in every sense that I just let myself down. So I was like, okay, I'll come back onto the programme. I don't want to be funded, I don't want no money. I just all literally want is the bike and the equipment, and this was to come back into track cycling. Um, and he was like, Well, of course, yeah, sounds like a great deal. Um, and and the reason why I did that is because I didn't need to get any more like money or sponsorship or or you know gratification from anyone. It was for me, like for the first time in a long, long time, I was coming back for me and for just to answer and put to bed things that were in my head, not because someone was telling me that I was just a another number on a conveyor belt and they needed me. I didn't care what the results were because I knew that I was in a really good place mentally, really good place physically, and I just wanted to see where that could take me.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

No, and I love that. That's there's so much I want to talk around that. So, again, one of the things I talk about quite a bit with people, and I say it because I don't think most people know it. I didn't know it until quite recently, is what I say it, but the word contest got Latin roots and the Latin. Roots mean to testify to oneself, and it's about that comp that contest with yourself. And again, I think sub completely subconsciously, I was always entering into contests, whether that was in a sport or a military perspective, against myself, to learn more about myself. And I used to love that. I used to love getting that feedback, whether it was success or not. Obviously, you saw a lot of success. I certainly didn't. And uh certainly in the sporting background, anyway. And um I think recognising that that's the case, that you've got this ability to learn more about yourself from you know, I can do this. This self-discipline is for me to go and do what I want to achieve rather than these carrots that get dangled in front of you by other organisations, maybe sponsorship, maybe people that can make some serious dollar from you, they've got ulterior objectives, haven't they? They've got ulterior motives. So I do love that. Um with regards to the the the BM kind of overarched all the cycling career, the kind of the highs and the lows for you with regards to the best days and which were the which were the worst days?

SPEAKER_04 23:37

I think I was very fortunate and lucky that I had more good days than bad. Um and most people lose more than they win, and I was lucky enough to win more than they lost. Um, but I think the low points for me was definitely injury, like injuries with BMX was pretty high. It's an extreme sport, and that was hard because I'd be I'm so I was so driven, and I would love to be, you know, every time I would set myself goals, whether it be you know in the gym or on the track or whatever it was, I had to I had to be stripped back down to bear and had to be, you know, if it was my shoulder injury, I could have to I had to work and adapt around that, which has set me up good in in in life now, being able to adjust and adapt and things. But there were some dark times, and I think the biggest, biggest, darkest times for me um were or the the the mo the the thing that made me spiral was 2008 Olympics. Like the final, yeah. That was not even just the final, like just you know, if I had a little girl and she had to go through that, I could never allow that to happen. Like I remember getting off the plane from the Olympics in 2008, you know, I'd going in as world champion, and um I honestly believed in my heart and I trained as as hard as I possibly could that I was going to be Olympic champion. I had no reason not to, you know. I had the likes of Chris Sir Chris Hoy and Bradley Wigan saying they bet the you know they bet the house on it. I was a s and I had loads of people put bets on me. Um and there I was at the Olympics, and I was like a rabbit in the headlights. Like I literally remember going through the security and checking in, and bearing in mind I'd been to the Olympic test event, I'd won on that track a year prior to that day. Um, and I went through and I was like went through the checkout, and then Usain Bolt was just there, like checking his stuff in, and I was just like, like, wow, like I was reading his book on the flight, and it just all was just like like just yeah, it was real, it got real real quick. And then I remember then going into the village, which is like a pretty much every kid's dream is Disneyland, and this was like a Disneyland for sport, but it was just a perfect world. Like I remember that the um the volunteers were cutting the grass with scissors, like this the grass was just pristine, and it was like all at the same level, and it was just unreal. Like at that then the food hall and seeing all these phenomenal athletes like Michael Phelps and you know all these like legends of the sport. I was only 18, like the youngest member of from British Cycling to get to go to that Olympics, and then getting to the Olympics um or getting to the venue at the BMX track, um, training all went good, fantastic. Nobody was there watching training. Then comes the race, and I remember going, I was in the warm-up area, and Princess Anne came and knocked on the door and wished me luck, and I was just like, Wow, Princess Anne, that's pretty cool. And then David Beckham was there, and he was like, Yeah, neither had I at that point. Um, he came and wished me good luck, and and I just remember going up for my first re like my first time trial, and I turned around to my coach at the time and I said, I don't actually remember how to do a start, and he was like, What do you mean? I was like, No, honestly, like I'm not because I'm I'm a bit of a joker, I like a little bit of banter, but I was like, I don't actually remember how to do a start at the start gate, and he was just like looked at me and was like, Steve, come on in. So Steve Peters, or Doc, you know, Dr. Peter. Steve Peters, yeah, yeah, he came in and had a chat and and stuff, didn't help because I was like, Well, you know, I've been doing starts all my life and I'd still he doesn't know how to tell me how to do a start. Yeah, um, and I think at that point I was started experiencing what anxiety was, yeah, yeah, um, and what and then what led on to depression. And remember going up for the race uh for the time trial, so just me single person on the track on my own to set a time for seeding for the for the race. I was the only one in the whole event to crash in the time trial. Like I went into the first turn, absolutely tanking it into the first turn, slid out and crashed, and then I was like, okay, I feel like I I definitely was humbled, I was definitely humbled. Um, and yeah, it was that was a big that rocked me big time, and just knowing that the competitors knew that I was hurt as well because I was I hit the ground pretty hard, and then it was the day after was the race, and then then came the race. Um, and I was sharing an an apartment with Victoria Pendleton um and then um Rebecca Ramiro and all the people in my apartment, and then it was another girl called Wendy, all got Olympic champion, and I was the last because BMX was the last cycling discipline, um, and I was the only one, so it was me left. Pressures feeling mounting, absolutely mounting.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

It's interesting. Sorry, to button. This is the stuff that people don't ever know. You know, like I've I've watched I watched the I remember watching the um the Olympic final um and I've heard other people's athletes uh talk about this kind of stuff, and we never see this side of things, all that stuff in the background, yeah, the the pressures that people are dealing with, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:50

Yeah, it was, and I mean for 18 it was it. I thought I was, you know, like a grown woman, a grown strong, independent woman that nothing could shape me because nothing had, nothing had till that point. So we go into the race, um, still feel like I'm just not me. Like, still feel like I'm like trying to gather myself, even on the start gate. The command's going on the start, and I'm thinking about things. Whereas whereas normally I would execute, I'd I you know, I'd visualize, I'd put it inside, and I'd always say to myself, This worked for me. I was like, Don't be a failure failure like your dad and put your head in a box and don't let anything come in now, everything's programmed. Yep, could not get into that mindset. So I was always like second guessing things and going on to the start and not really um being present in the moment and thinking about things that could happen. Yeah, so the first race goes on, I crash. So it was like great, started the race with a crash. Bearing in mind it's three semi, it was three semi-finals, and you need to get like top four each one to go through. So I almost didn't. So then the next two that the pressure was on. I needed to yeah, I needed to win, and then I crash in the third, I win the second one and crash in the third one, and I and I tore my hamstring in the third one. Nobody knew it, so I just scraped through to qualify, but it went on seeding laps in terms of lap time. So my lap time was really good, so I actually seeded I was the fastest person on the day to go through to get the best pick. But in the crash, the medic said we need to pull you from the event, and I was just like, I have not come here to be pulled from an event and sit there and watch the final, especially because I qualified for it. And they was like, Well, your medical with like if you crash now, you've basically signed a disclaimer to say that you know that's it. So I was like, Well, of course, if my legs are falling off, I'm still up on that start gate, but I was in excruciating pain with my hamstring, didn't know it at the time that I'd actually torn it really badly, which I found out later on. Um, went up just on that again. Did you get any injections for the pain?

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Nothing to the doctor.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

No, you're not unless I pulled from the event. So they couldn't mask anything, you had to just go with it. So we sat there going up for the final, was the first time in the whole event that I actually felt like me. I was like, Thank the Lord, I'm I'm back. I feel like I'm back. Go up the sta go up the stairs, and halfway up the stairs you pick your lane, what you want to go in. So it's very tactical that because you've got seven other competitors who have different strengths. Some some of their start, some aren't, some like to come from behind, some from front. I was I was a one-trick pony, and I didn't even realise it. I could only win from the big start. Like that's all I'd ever done because I'd been dominant for so long. My kind of trump card was I go from the start and I lead and I just stay out of traffic. So going in, press the start, I pick lane one. My biggest competitors, French girl and Caroline Chasson. She picks lane two, so she picks on the outside of me. She knew, and her group uh team knew that I crashed in the first term because I I was struggling with just taking the line and the turn. And going up the stairs, when she picked lane two, I just had this little sinking feeling like, okay, it's got it's gonna be interesting the first turn because I knew that I was kind of hesitant going into it, and I remember looking at the finish line, all of this going on in my head before we were going up. I look at the finish line and I think in 30 seconds or 32 seconds, I'm I could be Olympic champion, my life's gonna change. Now, how crazy is that? Like, why am I even thinking anything but what is present and what I'm at the moment? But I and I never thought like that before. I never used to think that never used to be my philosophy. So we get on the start, command goes, uh a lead into the first turn, and lo and behold, I was hesitant in the first turn, took it cautious, like took it quite cautious. She the girl, the French girl passes me, then it's like game on. So it's like, right, I've got to go from behind. So I pull up alongside her real quick down the second down the second straight, but I'm on a hip, I'm on the left hand side of her, so then I couldn't do anything, so I had to sit there, she pinned me. So I was like, that's fine. So I let a little bit of a gap go, charged into last turn, and I and I knew that this and I knew in my head, and I can still see it now. I looked into last turn and I was like, something's either I'm either going to become Olympic champion in that last turn or I'm gonna crash. So I was like, whatever option, I'm going for gold. Like we were way out in front, I'm going for gold. And I jump going into the turn last turn, land, and as I land, they'd moved like these airbags that were like welcome to Beijing 2008 or whatever it was. And as I as I take off and and look and spot my landing, I'm just like, oh no. I land and I have to swerve, and have I swerved, I had to swerve into her and then end up crashing out. And and that was that was my Olympic dream over.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yeah. So welcome to Beijing being the last memory of the world. Oh, I was welcomed. Yeah, I was welcomed. The ground, the hard ground's got a great way of welcoming me back to earth. Yeah, no, I mean, I I mean, like I said, I can remember watching it, and uh it it is one of those things where four years preparation, but everything that goes into it as well, up to those moments. I've got a lot of respect for that in the sense of you know how people like yourself, athletes, competitors, people in that contest cope with that pressure. Um, you know, if you don't mind, sort of pick around that a little because you've said a few things within that about you know how you weren't end resort focused a lot of the time, you was always very processed, automatic. You wanted to get all of that out of your mind, but you put it in a box. That's one of the words you said, I think. And don't be a failure like your dad. Is that the words that you used? And these little mantras that you've created for yourself. This is what I work with some people on around because I had the same in my world, you know, running off the back of a helicopter into a gunfight, let's say, you know, you're very aware of what the risks are, um, and you've there's got to be a strong motivation to keep doing what you're doing and having those little mantras, or and you mentioned visualization as well about being at at what point you did it. I'll be interested to sort of scratch around that. But the first thing, if you if you can, just one of the things I talk about is um about where stress happens um for people. Uh and a lot of the time it's in the gaps. So you talked about the stairs up to the start line, you're thinking. Um you were talking about the start line, you were thinking, and you were, you know, uh those those other times where or when you're walking around the Olympic village, you're seeing your stars. Wow, this is all it's all in those times when people have to find a way to deal with the pressure, uh, with the pressure. So try and liken it to people listening, maybe in their worlds, maybe it's people giving a talk at work. People hate public speaking, you know. We've spoken about this earlier, you've spoken at the House of Commons. I mean, fair fair play to you there. I mean, most people would be nervous about that, but you said you could deal with that kind of pressure because you know you're very honest, you're very truthful, and it that helps now people would present at their work hate the experience, but it's the fear before they go in where they're thinking about it. But when they're actually doing it, you know, yourself now within 60 seconds of talking, you're in your flow, aren't you, right? And you're not worrying about it. But with regards to mental skills training around events, what what are the things that really work for you?

SPEAKER_04 36:02

I I think no matter what situation you're in, if you plan to if you if you f prepare to or plan to prepare, you can't fail. Like for me, yeah, like I'm a massive believer, and I always have been, no matter if I'm in court the corporate sector, if I'm in a competition environment. Um you can never or personally from from my my perspective, you can never be nervous if you know what you're talking about. If you know what you're talking about, and essentially I talk about myself, so if I don't know enough about myself and my journey, then there's something seriously wrong. Um, but in you know, it anything I am involved in has to line up with my morals and values. So if I'm going into the House of Commons or I'm gonna go and speak on stage to you know 5,000 plus people, regardless of who that who's there, who's watching, if you're internally confident with what you're gonna present and say, it doesn't matter if one or twenty thousand people are stood in front of you because all you're doing is executing and and being in the process of delivering what you're you know, what you know, what you believe in.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

It's authentic, right? Yeah, it's authentic you, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 37:09

Yeah, and I never try and be anything that I'm not. I always try and be open and honest. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I'm not and one one of the things I learned it I guess about five or ten years ago, and excuse I won't swear, but I don't I don't give a shit what people think of me. Like I don't care if you like me, love me, or hate me, doesn't bother me because I'm internally happy with me now. So I I guess everybody will form an opinion of you from a very young age, people have formed opinions, but it has no relevance to who I am. Like if someone doesn't enjoy this podcast or what I have to say, then that's unfortunate, but I won't lose sleep over it. You know, if someone gets something from it, I'll be buzzing. Like that in that sense, if someone can get something from me, then that's fantastic. But if they don't, then is it's irrelevant to me. So if I ever go and do anything in any sector, I always feel as long as I've done a good job myself, then it's irrelevant what others think of or think of me. Um, because for so many years I was so I guess I guess it kind of got merged into doing it for myself and being this kid that was on a solo run, wanting to be a success, wanting to not fail, to then actually outside influences doing it for my partner, doing it for British cycling, doing it for this, doing it for that. And I lost perspective. I was I was never actually doing it for myself. Um so now in everything that I do, I do it for myself, and yeah, I just want to be proud of what I do.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

No, and uh all respect to you there. I'm hearing a lot of authenticity there. Again, I spoke recently with a former colleague, and you know, we we spoke like about authenticity within that. You've you've got to be true to yourself, haven't you? And work out what it is that's your path. And um, I think that's powerful, that's that intrinsic motivation, and people will get stressed. Everyone's got this image in their mind of what their ideal self looks like, and and we try and reach towards that now. We've also got like a that's an ideal self, but there's also a a right now a self-image, and the bigger that gap, the the more stressed people can feel. And if your self image right now isn't isn't heading towards that idea, you've that creates stress as well, because and often that's because people aren't um being authentic, being honest, doing it for the right reasons, they're doing it for all these wrong reasons, and and that kind of motivation can only last so long, right?

SPEAKER_04 39:24

Um yeah, definitely. And I think also people aren't stupid, like people can through see through the bullshit. Yeah, 100%. You know, you watch these reality TV people, you see these people that are on Instagram, these influencers, that it's just it's just bullshit. Yeah, like unless you're authentic, unless you're real, unless you're you believe what you're saying. Yeah. If you're one of these influencers and you know, I'm not bad mouthing anyone, or you know, these reality TV stars, it's like, what are you actually offering? Like, you know, what what you aren't being real, like you know, like it's you know, it's it's I just think if you're open and honest, what can people say?

SPEAKER_00 39:59

I love it. So one of my favourite sayings at the minute is real recognizes real. I love it. And real people can see real people, and we also recognise a lack of authenticity instantly, like that. You can't bullshit a bullshitter. That's the you know, another one. You we absolutely recognise that straight away, and you go, This is a facade, this isn't real. What's what you know, I don't get it. And but but society often will gravitate towards that and go, Oh, this is the person you've got to be seen with because they're uh uh A, B, and C. And it for me that just holds no weight, but all being authentic, being real, real people will gravitate towards that because it they you can't hide that. It's you know, you've got that experience, it's no one can take away the experience of it. You don't have to talk about because you've proven it. Yeah. And your your your your your success in that field is is is there for everyone to see forevermore, and that you know, you don't have to try and BS anyone, right? So all credit to you there. Um I smiled when you were talking about the Olympic village stuff because um again, I chatted I was lucky to chat with Adam Petey. We mentioned it earlier again. Um and he was talking about exactly the same time the f the first time he went out to the Olympics, and um Michael Phelps, he was like, Wow, there's Michael Phelps, and you've got all you mentioned Michael Phelps as well, you're just surrounded by these that almost star tr uh star struck. And Adam's is is he's younger than yourself, isn't he? But also he was there very young and um seeing these bright lights. And uh, how did you maintain focus in in that kind of environment?

SPEAKER_04 41:24

Um I don't think I did, yeah. If I'm honest, I don't think I did. Like, I'm not a kind of person who's um you know, I've met many like celebrities, which I hate that word celebrity um or famous, I don't like that. Um, but I've met people that you know have a big following, yeah, don't do nothing for me, like it doesn't even sports people like I admire what they've done, but I think when it's like legends and icons like that, and I know how hard it is because I'm in the same domain, not the same sport, but the same domain, how hard it is to get to the top, even military, like the guys like yourself, my best friend Samuel, he's you know, an ex-marine, and like I admire people like that so much because I know how hard it is to get to the top in them professions. Um, and I think I was just in awe of them because I was just like, I'm 18, and these people have been there, lived it, and they are you know become legends, and that was quite difficult to get perspective and get back into the present moment.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah, no, I get it. Shout out to Sammy Samuel, who's let us borrow his house today. Um, sat in his beautiful surroundings, he just gave us lunch as well. So it's a bit of a legend, isn't it? Messi is a legend to me. Um, so yeah, no, and again, I I love how you you're honest with that that you well, you said you didn't cope with it very well because you've got that respect, you're real and you recognise the discipline. There's a quote about uh Lionel Messi, who arguably one of the best footballers that's ever lived, footballers that's ever lived. Never heard of him. Exactly. Fair enough, but he uh never heard of her. And uh basically he says there's all sorts of quotes of um around how he was an overnight success, and he was like, Yeah, it took me 17 years, 11 months, and 46 days to be this of absolute hard work to be this overnight success, and there's just no shortcut to it, is there? No, 100%. And for the people listening, what do you think were the the disciplines that you put into practice every single day to take yourself to the top repeatedly?

SPEAKER_04 43:15

I literally every single day could say I'm I was better, I'm better, I'm gonna be better tomorrow than I am today. Yeah, because I would always be, I think in anything this relates to business, you know, life, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Agreed.

SPEAKER_04 43:29

I think once you set out upon your goal and then you put a plan in place to get to your goal, and then you then you kind of get to your goal. So in in my instance, become world champion, it's like, okay, well, how are you going to be better next year?

SPEAKER_05 43:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 43:42

So then it's breaking that down and looking at that plan that you set in place, looking at areas of the plan, if it's strength and conditioning, if it's you know fitness, whatever it is, and then looking and identifying how I can be even better and raise that level. Because I think it's when people become stagnant and don't move forwards and they get you know comfortable and content with where they're at and the world champion or whatever, or they've you know got that promotion and the job. You take the foot off the gas, and as soon as you start taking your foot off the gas, that momentum starts to just die off. And for me, I always pressured, I always put the foot on the gas, and from a young age, I would literally like I would look and study every athlete that was successful in BMX on how they rode. It was always guys because I didn't want to just be I wanted to be the best female, that was hands down, but I wanted to be better than that, I wanted to be one. Of the greats that I always said, like I guess a little bit cocky and ego was in there that I want to be the best female cyclist that ever lived for many years in BMX. Um, so then how would I do that? Well, I'd look at guys on how they do it and how successful they are, you know, how they they execute and ride a bike, and I think that's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Where where do you figure on the all-time best ever BMX list?

SPEAKER_04 44:55

I think in terms that that's a that's a tough question because taking ego out of it.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

So again, don't this isn't an egotistical answer, but if you're analytical with it and surely someone's done the math, what do you think?

SPEAKER_04 45:07

I think I'm the greatest female BMXer to ever live.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:10

Not the most I'm not the best, I'm not the best female cyclist to have the best skill sets on a bike. My skills were really good. But I believe Mariana Peugeot, who's the Olympic who's the double Olympic champion, current double Olympic champion from 2012 and 2016. I think she is hands down the great, the the best, the best female rider skills-wise, ever to live. Overall package, she has got double Olympic champion. I don't have any Olympic gold medals, but actually, all round, I do believe I'm the greatest female BMX to ever live.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Yeah, and and have you two raced? Excuse me, ignorance there.

SPEAKER_04 45:47

Yeah, I I was only ever beaten three three times in my career, and that was two times at an Olympics. She she won and the th or three yeah, two times at the Olympics, and then um won World Championships when I'd crashed. So yeah, every other race I'd always beaten her. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Um but you've raced loads of times.

SPEAKER_04 46:05

All the c all the current athletes that are still racing. I I they were all at top of the game when I was racing, I beat them all.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Cool. And yeah, that what about guys-wise? How do you how'd you fare against some of the best ever?

SPEAKER_04 46:16

I mean, now it's a different league, like the guys, the level that they're at, but back then I was national champion in the UK for the 19 and over males, 19 19 plus males. I raced guys from like I I got elite, I was a national champion in the elite women category when I was 12, and then I was like, Okay, I'm I'm the best in the UK any of any age, where can I go from here? So I had to write a petition. I mean, I get I had to get a petition signed by I think British Cyclone said over 2,000 people had to sign this petition for me to be able to race the men because they were like, Well, that's not never happened. It's not fair, yeah. So the guys all didn't want me to race, and then I raced the 15 to 16 year old boys. Um I raced them and then I went to 19 plus and I and I won both. I won so I was the fastest, one of the fastest males but female in the UK. On the planet, on the planet.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

So what what are the what are the gifts you think that kind of drove that? What did you have that the rest around you didn't work ethic? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Like my worth m if I want to achieve something, I will literally now, like even in my career now, if I want to achieve something or I want something, I will do everything there is to get it. Like whether that is, you know, like career or something materialistic or whatever it is, I don't really go for materialistic things and because it doesn't bring you happiness, but whatever it is, I will literally turn myself inside out to get there.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah, and I think that's often you're saying to me there's no secret source.

SPEAKER_04 47:48

Is that what you think? There's no like if someone could if someone could give me a bottle of it, I will still wouldn't take it because I I love the fact that when I get there and when I achieve what I've achieved, it's through real hard work, it's through like sheer determination. Um, and yeah, I wouldn't want it if it was bottled up and being you could buy it.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Absolutely. So, again, one of my former jobs, I was the talent ID for for uh my old organization and UKSF for a part. And um people used to ask, what are the things that people need? What is it that they've got? And there is no secret source, exactly what you've said hard work, determination, that self-discipline, that ability to take a knock, to pick yourself back up. And so, how do you you do a bit of coaching now on into cycling as well, don't you? So, how do you communicate that? Because it's quite subjective, isn't it? You were you had this fire inside your belly that drove you. So, how do you communicate that to the the people that are looking up to you and going, Well, I want to be the next Chine's read?

SPEAKER_04 48:43

You know, I always think you can't give you can't give someone that, like I think it's internal. But what I do as I always share my experience, strength, and hopes of what I've done. Yeah, and then the next thing I do is try and you know, everyone needs reassurance, or everyone likes a little bit of reassurance, so I try and reassure them that it can be done. Like I said, my journey of my success in my career on paper should never have happened. So I just tell them and be an example in terms of like the coaching and stuff. I've I've learned a lot. I've I've been very fortunate in my career to work with the world leading sports scientists, strength and conditioning coach, nutritionist, all that knowledge that I've got, and I've never been a person to be spoon-fed, I've always asked why. Like if someone tells me to you've got to ask questions. If someone tells me to go and lift X amount, I'm like, well, why? What is that going to do to benefit me? Um, so I think I've learned a lot of knowledge in a lot of different areas. I'm not qualified in all these areas, um, but I know enough about enough things, and I try and give that back, and I'm all about giving back. Like a big thing in terms of like my recovery, which we'll go on to in of alcoholism, is you give it a way to keep it. So, what's the point of me putting 21 years in of sport and just keeping it to myself and going off on my jollies and never giving anything back? So, a big thing is I like to give back and just say this is how I've done it, these are the things I learned from, you know, them or this is even how I because bearing in mind BMX has only been in the Olympics now, it's it's third sector. So I try and give the belief of people who are going, and the you know, I coached some ath or coached some athletes that were going to the Olympics for the first time and saying this is you know what to expect, this is how you know, this is how I felt. Um, because I never really had anyone give me that. Like everybody in British cycle at that point had gone to an Olympics, not really been favourite to win, they'd kind of gone to Athens, we'd had a you know a few, yeah. Um, but no one had could really, and no one had ever been in the Olympics for BMX because the first time it was 2008. So I was kind of going in blind. So all of this knowledge and everything that I've got, I try and just give back to the next talent.

SPEAKER_00 50:48

I love what you said, experience, strength, and hope. Yeah, the three. So experiences are the ones that you've shared, some of those with us, and the the strength you say that hard work, what's hard work, commitment, you know, and and the biggest one, you know what I think is I look in the mirror in anything that I do and I say, How bad do you want this?

SPEAKER_04 51:06

Whether whatever it is, like whatever it is to be sport or whatever, it's like how badly do you actually want this? Are you saying it's a wish, or are you you know, is it a wish, is it a dream, or is it a goal? And I always try and separate the three because I can look at my like anything that I set in my goals, and I still do it today, I still set goals for the year. Same. I look at myself and go, How bad do you want this? Do you actually want it, or is it just look that sound like a fancy idea?

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Yeah, how do you take that? So, again, there's going to be people listening that go, no, I I've got some pretty clear goals, but they're still in the head. So, how do you help people with that from a from a dream or a visualized reac dream, whatever, then down into a realistic goal that they can start pursuing? Is there any way that you've got helps them to make that make it real for them?

SPEAKER_04 51:53

A plan. Like it all boils back down to a plan. Work backwards, like there's your goal, work backwards from it, what's your timeline, and then just start plotting it out. Um, because you know, everyone can have a goal, but it's like, how are you actually going to execute it? And then when you write that goal out, um that plan out, stepping back away from it, thinking, is this achievable? Am I able to put in X amount of hours to this? You know, whether it's being running a marathon or whatever it is, but am I actually willing and have I got the time to actually put into this plan in order to achieve my goal?

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Yeah, so what's the saying? A goal without a plan should be just a witch. And I kind of didn't want to put those words in your mouth, but I I expected you to say that.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

So this is something you still now diligently write down your plans, and everything that you're doing going forward has got this sort of Yeah, and I I think I think I think in terms of actual detailed planning, I don't do as much because I think I've done so much of it and I know what's required for me to get to where I need to get to because it's things that I've you know, it's it goes in the autopilot now instead of it, you know, like sounding subconscious or whatever, it's more autopilot and more like okay, if I want to achieve this, it's generally in the kind of sector that I I enjoy, like fitness or you know, whatever it is. I kind of know what I need to do to get there, and I know that I'm willing to put in what it takes to get there, so it gets easier. I guess the more you do of anything, it gets easier, it becomes routine. So now I don't necessarily have to do a detailed plan. It becomes like okay, some key points, this is what I need to tick off.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

And yeah, I absolutely get that, you know, with regards to my former experiences going out on missions all over the world, you know. You at first everything is minutely planned in every detail. By the end of your career, you've got a series of well, this is a standard procedure. If this happens, that happens, and you have to communicate it to other people, but you know internally, when it happens, this is what I'm gonna do, this is what I'm gonna do. And you can you can break you know that certain thumb something will take a certain amount of time. Yeah, you don't need to necessarily have that minutiae plan. So, yeah, I completely get that. So um going forward, then in fact no, there's just while we're staying in the kind of competitive cycling side of things, two people you um we've mentioned off camera, so some people that people will be familiar with. Um Professor Steve Peters, author of the Chimp Paradox, um clearly you've had British cycling and a lot of connection with him. Some of the skills that may be or may not be in the book that a lot I know a lot of people have read, it's a pretty well-read book nowadays, but the the things that you've taken from that that you you still apply is there things personally?

SPEAKER_04 54:23

I think it's in the book, and and Steve again is open and honest and these philosophies and theories. Um, but for me it's the kind of the chimp, you know, the chimp or whatever you want to call it, the subconscious or whatever, but just actually not listening so much to what the mind's saying because if you actually, you know, I think when people are depressed, and I've been there myself, so I can I feel like I can say it, um, you listen more to what the negatives that are going on. The mind's a computer, it'll fire out thousands of different, you know, things each day. And if you listened or tried to catch all of them, it's very exhausting, it's very draining. You start believing your own bullshit and all X, Y, and Z. And for me, I think like I just when I worked with Steve, was understanding why things like that did actually happen and why your mind was, and then actually the other part of your brain and and and just simplifying it, because I like to keep things simple in anything. Yeah, I'm not a complex person, um, and it's just like knowing that that's that's okay to have them voices, but actually hitting it with actual facts and and and and things that are real, and just actually trying to distinguish between the two is one of the things that I think was a massive benefit for me.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

I know a lot of people I know have read that book and have got a lot from it, but again, whatever you call it, that kind of subconscious chimp, whatever you call it, it's or the conscious, even the the chimp side of you that you can control that. And and when recognizing that at certain stages, normally in the gaps, like I've mentioned before, that that stress is gonna try and get out because your brain's gonna look to protect and to sort of you know not embarrass you, all these kind of things, and and it it it is it is interesting techniques that we can go into. Um the other guy I'm interested in, maybe a little bit of David Braille's ferth and know again a bit from what I hear, don't know the guy, a bit of Marmite. You either love him or hate him, and but he what you can't argue is he has got huge success in what he's thrown himself into, and all respect for me, I've got a lot of time for that. So um, any sort of comments on um him as a an individual with regards to what he's done with a British cycling team?

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Yeah, I think hands down the the the reason why British cycling is so success successful today is because of Dave. It's not just purely because of him as an individual, but his theories and his beliefs and his and his everything that he put together and built. Um he built us very much like a I guess like a Premier League football, football team, had his like p people in places, and and he was yeah, his attention to detail, his belief when people would laugh that you know we were going to become the next biggest cycling, or you know, we were gonna be the most successful cycling nation in the world. Um, again with his team Sky, and he went on to do that and said about the Tour de France, he achieved it. Um and he really kind of brought in you know the what what what sport was missing then, like like we had um you know Professor Steve Peters was brought into the mix, we had a doctor come in, we had these world sports scientists, and all these things he created a team of people that all together collectively really pushed the envelope of of cycling in the UK.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

You must have seen that change within the team from where you began with the British cycling squad and then to where it is now, you know, you've seen all that. And what's the what's the key things that him as a person is the thing that has brought that success?

SPEAKER_04 57:37

He told me one thing and I remembered it forever. Okay, you've got a plate and you've got a steak on there, and you've got peas, and you've got carrots, and you've got your other bits, but you can never forget your steak. Yeah, yeah. He said, Because um so you can never forget your peas because they're the important things. You'll be taking care of it. So basically, in essence, he was saying you've got to take care of the small things because they become big things. So all these little things like getting a psychologist, but you know, doing this, this, and this, a lot of people would forget, like they would just think it's hard work, you get strong, you get fit, you get fast, dumb, you you get it done, but it's not, it's them small details leaving no stone unturned. Yeah, um, and he was a massive advocate of leaving no stone unturned. And the biggest thing that I think Dave did, which kind of become a vic British side can become a victim of his own success in a way later on down the line, was they Dave always said we were the kings and queens of our own programmes, like we we would we would have control and we would use the team on how we wished to use them in terms of if we wanted to go and see someone for advice, i.e. Um, you know, a psychiatrist or or whatever it would be, then we were we were in control of that, but the services and the people were there for us. Whereas later on down the line, not so much now, definitely not from my last experience of British cycling, it became like you will do this, you will go and see that person, and it the the um the ownership and the I guess the yeah, I guess the ownership kind of got taken away from us, yeah, and it and then it it it started turning on itself a little bit, um but now I think it's kind of gone back full circle again and and we are kings and queens of our programmes.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Yeah, I love that. So there's a book by Dan Pink called Drive, who famous writer for former president and all sorts, but he talks about um three things autonomy, mastery, and purpose. Having people, a workforce, a team, whatever it is, having their own autonomy and what they're doing is powerful, you know, rather than being this is prescriptive, you do this, A, B, and C, and that's the only you know, na that's not the best way. People need a bit of wiggle room to work it out for themselves, and you have to create a culture where sometimes it doesn't work out and you make your own mistakes, but that's where you learn. Um, but you've got these boundaries that people can work. So, yeah, I mean I love that.

SPEAKER_04 59:53

Um can I can I go to the toilet button?

SPEAKER_00 59:56

Yeah, of course. Like, you're gonna lose me. Leave the mic here. China's read part two. Toilet break finished. That's allowed. Um the ratus mine, you're allowed to allow to take a toilet break. Um so there's there's a number of things that we spoke about that I just want to touch on. You you mentioned um the darker times, so you you you know, this identity of like PMX world champion. Um and then at some point that came to an end, and and it sounds like I don't know the detail, but it sounds like that there was a bit of identity wrestling there. So do you want m do you mind talking about that? Is that okay?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:31

No, I I think like for me from from a very young age, I always wanted to be successful in sport and be the very best that I could be, and for for 20 years of my life, that's what I was, and I but I'd never seen anything. I don't know when I was a kid, I'd never seen that ever ending. Like I just thought I'm gonna be the successful person for the rest of my life. Um, and then it came to an end, and I remember it, it was a brutal end um the first time round. Um there was a standing performance director, and he basically sat me down. I was put on a review because I had this I was on my sixth operation on my shoulder, and he sat me down, and we were in his his office, and he just said, Sorry to tell you, but your membership's expired. And I was like, like I don't sign up for this thing, it's this is my life, like this is my life. He says, Yeah, we believe like with your shoulder and you know how you've been mentally. Um it's basically thanks very much. You've been a great asset to the to the company of British cycling, and jobs are good and off you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

See you later.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:37

And that didn't go down very well with me. Um I'm I'm generally a calm person. He got a reaction from me very much so because it wasn't the fact was it the Steve No, no, I think it I think it was banging my my it was on the it was yeah, it wasn't chimp, it was very much like he needed to hear this because I was like, it wasn't the fact that my that my career ended and my it was through injury and other things, it was there was no empathy, there was no compassion, and I was like, hang on a minute, like I've actually committed my entire existence to my sport. I've provided British cycling, you know, and BMX with a massive you know platform, and there he was telling me my membership's expired. I just it just didn't sit well with me. I drove home, wrote off my ex-girlfriend's car um straight off. Like I didn't, you know, a car stopped in front of me, my mind was in overdrive, wrote a car off, went straight to the um straight to the petrol station, got a bottle of vodka, and just like downed it. And I was just like, I cannot be in this headspace that I'm in. I need something to block the pain and I need it now. Like I'm like, what what am I gonna do? Yeah. Um and then it's then the the wheels fell off, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

And again, um I'm not gonna say I can relate to that, but I know a lot of people that their sporting careers or their military careers have come to an end like that, and there's no empathy. And when you've like you've said, you've dedicated your life up to that point to this thing, whatever that thing is, and then it turns out they don't care. That that stings, right? That stings, and a lot of people, again, from certainly from my background, they either make that transition slowly and deal with it in certain ways, or it happens fast. And again, everyone's got a different way of managing that, but obviously with yours it was gone. And and again, it's like a I speak to a lot of rugby players who've got similar career-ending injuries and what they knew of themselves only.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:41

Sorry, Sam, Sam, could you shut this door and it'll stop him from doing this? So yeah, I've just seen him come down really happy with himself.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

One of one of Sam's other bed bedroom toys.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

That's alright. Trashed it. No, and so these these these guys is careers have just come to an end. And so how did you know obviously initially that went not so well, or you cope with it how you could, but then you know, fast forward through the months through there, what what went on?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:14

From that from that moment on, um I um literally what year we talking? So 2015. Okay. Um about 2015, 16. Um I literally hit the effort button. Um I didn't care about anyone or anything because I was like, I d I just don't know who I am. I didn't, you know, I just I tried to be a good person, but I was doing really bad things when I was drinking. Um and my best friend became a bottle. And and that's how it went for quite a few years. And I look back on on who that girl was and I feel sorry for her because I'm I just think like, wow, how it all ended up like it ended up. And yeah, I just I literally spiraled out of control and I'd look at myself in the mirror and just not even recognize myself physically either, because I'd look at myself, I'd gained like I don't know, like three and a half stone and just become lazy and like not a good person and not driven and all the things that I was. And I remember catching myself once. I was walking down the high street where I live. I looked at myself in in just like the shop front, and they caught my reflection, and I was just like, holy shit, like I actually looked twice because I thought someone was stood next to me. I didn't recognise it was me, and I and just in the corner of my eye, I seen my dad, and that was like gut wrenching. I was just like, that is I've turned into the person that I never wanted to become. Um, and that was that was um really, really one of the hardest things that I had to to come back from, and I didn't think I could, like I just didn't think, I just thought I knew that I'd been running away for for so many years from something that I didn't want to be and I didn't want to become, and the way I did that was through sport and being successful, and there I was just just a mess, an absolute mess. And I'd be forever thankful for my ex-partner who basically gave me an ultimatum and and dropped me off at a an AA meeting. I didn't believe I was an alcoholic, my ego wouldn't let me believe I was an alcoholic. Um I didn't I knew I had a drinking problem. Um I just thought it was circumstance. I didn't realise that I was as sick as I was, um, and I went into The rooms of AA, and it was one of the most courageous things I've ever had to do because I sat there and I was vulnerable. Like I sat there and I was just like, How can I be an alcoholic? I'm successful, you know. Everybody, you know, really relates to me, everyone looks up to me. I've got little kids that think I'm a role model, and there I was sat in the rooms of AA. Um, and I needed it. I needed to go to the rooms of AA, and I needed to sit there and be humbled again because my ego was getting so big, but I was get it becoming such a small, like if you you know, such a small grain of sand that I needed to be humbled and I needed to listen. Unfortunately, it took me quite a few months to listen. I didn't want to be there, I didn't feel like I fitted in there. Um, I actually was pleasantly surprised the people in the rooms like they were lawyers and and all sorts of walks of life. I was the only one that looked like an alcoholic. I was fat, I was overweight, I was sweating, I was a mess. And here I was sat there thinking, I'm not an alcoholic, it's you know, I don't fit in here. Um but surely slowly but surely they said it'll trickle in. And I started hearing things that I could relate to. Um, and the day I admitted I was powerless over alcohol and my life had become unmanageable, my life changed, like things got better. Um, I started, I never I never knew, I never ever thought, you know, you watch it on EastEnders or you watch it on these soaps and other things, an AA meeting and what it's about.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:01

It's Coronation Street up here, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:03

Yeah, Coronation Street. I'm in it more of an East Enders kind of girl. Um, and I um never knew that the programme of AA and the what it was, I didn't know it was just it was way more than just putting the drink down. Putting the drink down was probably the easiest thing, the hardest that we run by a 12-step programme which has changed my life in in more ways than I could ever imagine. And for that, I'm really, really grateful that I am an alcoholic because without that I wouldn't be the person I am today. I wouldn't have the understanding of people, um, I wouldn't have the compassion. All the things that I should have been was there, they were there, but it was like you know, like a diamond just needed polishing. Yeah, um, and when it was polished, it it shone again. It sounds cheesy or whatever, but that's how I can kind of relate it to and and then went through the programme and sh slowly but surely my life started getting better. Um, the obsession of the alcohol left me and yeah, I just started growing as a person, and I can look in the mirror, and I'm nearly three years sober in November. Nice one, thank you, and it's been my greatest achievement of my life because and I very, very nearly missed it. Like I nearly missed this life. Um I was at a point in my life where I was ready to to to commit suicide. I just thought like, like I say, like one of my biggest, great, like biggest annoyances of of people in a way, um, is is not living. It's just existing. And I was just existing. I was offering zero to society. Um, and I was like, okay, if I'm if I'm offering zero to society, what what is my point in living?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:46

So I was at a pot a dark, dark place where I was like, okay, I'm just gonna end it, it'll be better for everyone. I'm causing chaos everywhere I go. Um, I'm upsetting, I'm hurting people that I love. Um, and what is the point in me being here? And luckily I didn't miss it, and I, you know, I found the rooms of AA.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:02

Massive shout out for you to share that as well. Um, just mic drop. That's you know, if if you've not listened to that and got a little bit from that's relatable to everybody, you know, did we say 11 times world champion? Biggest thing you've achieved is to um understand yourself and and move forward from that situation, you know, your biggest success in your life. I absolutely love that. Um I really appreciate you sharing that, Sinaise. That's awesome. Um, because there'll be a lot of people out there that maybe have got a habit with something that they they just can't shake, and they're they they probably feel a bit of shame over having it because, well, not everybody suffers this, but you've got an 11-time world champion telling you here, well, that's the biggest success of your life.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:44

Hands down, easily the biggest success of my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

Again, that's that's awesome. Um, and again, so I know there's gonna be people that connect with that. Um that's powerful stuff. So you dragged yourself out of that, and this um this 11-step process again. That's is it 11 or 12? Did you say yeah, 12? Um and I'm not gonna sc I'm not gonna scratch around that. If people want more information, they should go to the web. Um, we're not gonna be able to do that justice, I'm sure, but the the website can. But then you've dragged yourself on, and you know, looking forward now, you know what what does the future hold for Chanaise now?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

The world's my oyster, like it literally is. I can do absolutely anything in this world, anything apart from pick up a drink of alcohol, and I'm cool with that because like I don't need alg I don't need a substance to make me heighten any any experience that I'm in. Um and for me, I'm still a really driven person, like I really want to be successful. Uh the biggest thing for me that makes what drives me is helping others. Like I hands down, like I've got such a passion for helping others, whether that be trying to you know win a BMX race or trying to just be, you know, run a 5k, like I'm trying doing the experiencing myself at the moment, but like anything, it doesn't have to be sport related, anything in in general, like helping with low self-esteem, helping with anything, um, is the biggest thing for me and my driving force is to help others.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

No, I love that again. For me, one of the biggest things in my life is this contribution to others, and the this really this podcast is a bit of a journey in that, but also the feedback that I get from it, and I know people will feedback about the things you've been talking about. It I'll pass all them on, by the way, but that feeling of contribution to other people listening and being able to connect it to their lives, it's it's super powerful. The best thing there is out there, right? Uh, without doubt. And you know, I've experienced a lot myself, but um that feeling of contribution to others is is something else. So we know fair play to you there. So, what is it that you do now? Is if if you can ask that.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:42

It's it's difficult to say what do I do. I don't I do like a lot of ambassador um stuff for like corporate brands, um, cycling and walking ambassador for the West Midlands. Um I do I work for an Indian bike company developing bikes. My life's got a lot of variety. Like I've just shot League of the Rome a few weeks ago. Like my life, yeah, it's like I can't actually say this is my job title, and I'd never want that to happen. Like, I never want someone to say, What do you do now, China's? And me to turn around and say, Oh, I'm a receptionist. No disrespect to receptionist, but the way my mind works and my energy is it has to filter into different things because I'm like, if you actually use time management and you know, like you kind of set out your plans, then you can do multiple things, and and I and I loved having multiple um projects on the go.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

Yeah, no, I love that. And again, same for me, really. I genuinely can't imagine having a job now. Um, I used to have a job, and and I love to have these different sections to my life. That variety is something I always got from my job. Very few jobs out there that can give you that. So I I you can for people listening, you can design that if that's what you need. Some people want certainty and they want consistency. I get that too, but you can design that into your life, can't you? Shout out to uh Reggie Reggie there. Just wanting to get a bit of their time. So Sineise, then we'll try and wrap this up. Um, for the people listening, like thank you so much for what you've just given us. There's there's loads in there, both from your experiences before and your experiences after. I absolutely love it personally, and I know loads of people will. So um, for the people listening, what are your kind of your top tips for people in their own life right now, if they want to be successful in whatever field it is, what you've learned through your life, what the the number, what are the things that they can do today that are gonna help them going forward?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:37

I think having a hard long look at yourself and asking yourself, what is it really that you want to achieve? I think having like the balls, I guess, a little bit, if you're in a job and you think realistically, I really hate this job, I don't want to be in it, being true to yourself is massive. Like you've got to be true to yourself. You've got to, I feel, to get up every morning and do something that you love, you know, whether it even you know, mehet that not be in your job, but you know, contributing to doing some charity work or something, but so having some passion if it's going to the gym or whatever it is, but something outside of your day-to-day life that you're passionate about and you can put your energy into it and you can love it and it makes you excited, it makes you happy. Um I think the other thing for me is step outside of your comfort zone, like don't be afraid to fail, don't be afraid to step outside of your comfort zone because every time you step outside your comfort zone and do something, you just grow from it. And I've all I always try, like you know, I'm gonna do a motorbike day next week, and it I always try and do something that steps me out of my comfort zone, bit of a daredevil in a sense, you know. I'm not saying to everyone to to be a daredevil or do extreme things, but do things that make you feel alive, um and and it all boils back down to just being happy, like doing things, doing things that make you happy, um, and trying to add something back into society and passing it on.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

I love it, love it, and and you've demonstrated that every sense from the very first opening sentences the 11-year-old girl, the 12-year-old girl going around the world, being stepping outside your comfort zone, and you've learned so much from doing that experience. A lot of people think about doing those kind of things, maybe not at 11 and 12, but a lot of people get as they get older think about doing those things, and you don't get the experience by thinking about it. You go and do, you learn, you then reassess is this something that makes me happy or not, and then you can move again, can't you?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:29

So yeah, just I I'm I'm a massive thing of just go and do it. Do it like literally, if I say I want to do something, I just go and do it. Because what is the point in sitting there thinking I really want to do it? Well, just go and do it. Like sometimes financially or whatever, it's hard, but they're only small things, you can get past them. Just go and do it because once you've done it, you always feel good. Like I hate amusement parts, like a fair rides and and I hate Alton Towers. But that this is just one example. But I'll go because I know I'll feel great after it because I feel like I've achieved something that I didn't like didn't want to do, sort of do. Um, but always step outside your comfort zone, go and be a doer, you know. Life's short, go and grab it while you can.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:09

Yeah, it's not about Instagram quotes that say that, it's about doing it, isn't it? Now I love that. I love that. Nothing against Dalton Towers. I love you. Um, free tickets, please. Um, so now Chinaise, really appreciate your time. Um, that's been quality. Um, I I I genuinely value it, and I know there's loads of people out there that are going to too. So thanks very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:26

Thank you. So we go on the track.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:29

If you're up for it, I mean what's the weather like that?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:33

China's by asking the weather.