The Duratus Mind Podcast
The Duratus Mind - A podcast exploring all things success, mindset and motivation.
Gaz was a former UK Special Missions Unit Sergeant Major, but now a leadership coach and business owner. In the podcast he opens up his network to try and understand what motivates some to achieve so much, why some are so driven, and what it really takes to get your success.
The Duratus Mind Podcast
The Duratus Mind - Dinger Bell - Atlantic Ocean Row Solo Unsupported
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The Duratus Mind - A podcast exploring all things mindset and motivation. Gaz, a former Special Forces Sergeant Major but now performance consultant, opens up his network to try and understand what motivates some to risk so much, why some are so driven, and what it really takes to achieve success in any sector.
This episode Gaz speaks to another old friend Dinger Bell. Dinger is a former Royal Marine who since leaving the military has completed a number of arduous challenges. None however are quite as tough as the New York to United Kingdom solo unsupported row that he was about to commence. What Dinger is about to commence will be a world first if he is successful. As those familiar with Ocean rowing will recognise that there is normally a crew of rowers aboard their craft working on a routine enabling there always to be someone rowing and making progress. As a solo rower, when you're not rowing you're at the mercy of the elements.
The North Atlantic is a very different crossing than the more usual Mid Atlantic route. Fewer than 60 people have EVER rowed across the North Atlantic while over 100 people rowed the Mid Atlantic last year alone.
Follow Dinger @ny2uksolorow on instagram and facebook or keep up to date on the website at: www.ny2uksolorow.co.uk
Dingers chosen charities are:
The SBS Association: https://www.theassociation.org.uk
Bravery: https://www.bravery.org.uk
Follow Gaz at Duratus UK (www.DuratusUK.com)
instagram at Duratus_Gaz
Facebook at Duratus UK
Okay then. So the Duratus Mind podcast today welcomes Dinger Bell. Dinger, welcome. Hi, mate. Thanks for having me on. Awesome. Um, it's it's absolutely my pleasure, mate. Um every single episode I get to pick and choose who I talk to, and this is why I'm doing it. I I've lost track of the number of friends of ours that have messaged me that have said, you've got to get Dinger on, you've got to get Dinger on. And uh finally it's happened. I thought it wasn't gonna happen. I've not told you this even yet, that just before we started, I've had serious internet problems and and first world problems, I'm sure, compared to what you're gonna be faced with in the next few weeks. But uh um yeah, this it's it's we just get a chance to talk now, mate, and I'm mega looking forward to it. So thanks for coming along.
SPEAKER_01No, it's my pleasure.
SPEAKER_02Awesome.
SPEAKER_00Um probably worth for people listening, just um relating our connections. We've got uh you know uh both of us with a a military background, and you know, our paths have crossed a number of times. We've never worked alongside each other jointly, but people like Foxy, people like Del Ashley, who have just been chatting about um some of the stuff that you're getting up to now, people are gonna they're gonna have their minds blown, mate. And I'm keen to leverage uh our connections to to try and get this out there and try and raise as much money for what you're about to do as possible. So is it worth thing that you just for those that um may know of what you're doing? I've shared it a little bit, I know others have. And for those that haven't, do you mind just giving us a bit of an overview of what the blazes you've got yourself into?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've certainly a bit more than I can chew this time, that's for sure. Um, yeah, I'm hoping uh we're looking forward at weather to the weekend. Uh and I'm hoping by Saturday, Sunday, if the forecast is correct and the window does develop as we hope it does, uh, I'm gonna row out of New York in a 7.6 meter one-man um ocean rowing boat, and I'm gonna try and ride it back to Falmouth in the UK. So that's across the North Atlantic. Uh, it's about um point to point, if you just do it on a you know, on a GPS or some some you know navigation software, it's about 3,100 and something miles. Um, but obviously I'm gonna be going backwards and round in circles and all over the place, so I'll no doubt do a lot more than that.
SPEAKER_00But you you say obviously, because this is something you've thought a lot about and you you understand the the complications here. So when I first hear about like genuinely, mate, if I first hear about uh Atlantic rowing, I'm like, yeah, Fox has done that. I know a few people that have done it actually, and I you know, yeah, you you're doing it solo, which I think that's got to be nails. Um, but what there's a few intricate differences between what you're trying to do and what anyone else I know that's uh done before. And actually, am I right in saying that this this is possibly a world first?
SPEAKER_02Um it's yes, it's it's being it's being um talked up, if you like, as a world first. It so the North Atlantic route that I'm doing is referred to as the classic, uh the classic route. So it's New York, technically it's to the Scilly Isles. I'm going into Falmouth because that little bit's that's just liaison. It makes me towing the boat home uh a lot easier, and it's an extra 40 miles. So I thought, well, I might as well just you know carry on past the silly's. Um, but it's called the classic route because it was the first time that anybody ever rode any ocean. Uh it's two Norwegian fishermen testing me on dates now. I think it was 1894 or 1896, uh something like that. Um I've been already, Cass. Put me back onto your original question.
SPEAKER_00Um, what makes yours what's different?
SPEAKER_02What's different in the normal route, if you want to call it that. I mean, there's nothing particularly normal about Ronan Ocean. Uh, it's a very, very small group of people that want to do it. But generally, people go across the mid-lap mid-Atlantic. So there's uh a brilliant event called the uh the Talisca Whiskey Atlantic Challenge. Uh and people call call it Twack for short. And that goes out of the Canary Islands. I hear that right. Twack or Teawak, if you don't want to sail quite so closely to the wind with it. Um yeah, and and so that goes out of the canaries every year in about December uh and goes over to the Caribbeans. Fantastic event. Um, and actually, when I first started looking at a row, that was the event I I looked into. But it's a race for a start, which you know, I'm I'm old and broken, and I didn't particularly want to race. It is one thing. What I'm doing isn't about you know being the first or anything like that. Um, it's also expensive to enter. And if you do enter, you you kind of need to have um a ranok boat, which we might talk about a little bit later, but they're quite expensive. They're they're a lot more cutting edge than my boat, so they're a lot more expensive. So that put me off the Talisca, uh, the Talisca race. Yeah, an independent road does generally end up being a lot cheaper, but I have spent my life savings on this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I don't doubt what I'm hearing from the the other Talisca race, it's it's east to west, it's much more temperate versus uh you know, you're not you're not going to be faced with the kindest of weathers. That's that's for certain, right? I mean, what kind of conditions is best for you?
SPEAKER_02Um well that route that I'm talking about, the mid-Atlantic route, is um it has much more consistent weather systems. Um so generally that means uh wind and swell from behind, and it it helps you across. There's no two ways about that. Um and there are trade winds in the North Atlantic as well, but they're just they're not as strong and they're not as consistent. And you've also got a thing that comes down from the north from the Arctic called the Labrador Current. So you have the warmer equatorial waters coming up the eastern coast of the US, uh, bends around past New York, um uh across the Newfoundland, and then it mixes with this Labrador Current, which gives you some really horrible, unstable weather. Uh, so you have confused seas, uh, lots of if it's calm, or very often when it's calmer, you get lots of really, really dense seafog out there because you've got warm water being pushed up from the equator mixing with freezing cold or very cold water uh coming down on the Labrador current. Um, so it it's it's it's just a big melting pot of lots of different conflicting weather patterns, of which I know you know, uh uh I know a very surface level uh about that. Um but really that that was part of the attraction for me, choosing that route.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well that was that was my next question. You know, um there's gonna be a lot of people thinking about Atlantic Roan and what that might mean for them, and they go, Why pick the hard one? Right? So, so what what is that? What is that why for you? What is the why?
SPEAKER_02Um the most common question and the hardest to answer. Uh as as concisely as I can put it, Gaz, it it's just to see if I can. It's a curiosity to see if I can. Um, and I think in answering that question, if I tell you some reasons that don't motivate me, it'll help you understand what does. Uh I'm not interested in um records, uh, as I've already said, it's not about blasting across there as quick as I can, it's about the journey for me. It's about what happens when I leave New York and before I arrive uh uh in Falmouth. Um I in no way, shape, or form I am aiming for a record. Although I might establish um uh a solo and unsupported first uh to to answer your previous question, uh it has been rode solo before, but never unsupported. So to do solo unsupported, it could be be deemed as a first. Um so my why is to see if I can. Um if I just wanted to go down the pub and raise a beer and big myself up and say I've rode an ocean, I I can jump in a crew of four and do the mid-Atlantic route, rip across there in 30 to 40 days, and I've got all the bragging rights I need. Um the North Atlantic, basically, I've got about a 30% chance of success of getting across. Uh, so you have to consider failure. Um, but all of that to me just and I don't know whether I'm just wired up wrong, that makes it more attractive to me, not less. That makes it more worthwhile.
SPEAKER_00No, I I I absolutely get it, mate. You you're right in that you're wired up wrong, just for starters. Um, there's um that I I know a lot of people that are wired up wrong. I actually choose to speak to people that are wired up on the on the face of it wrong because I you know there's a lot of people that would listen to that and go, I just don't get it. And I do get it, mate. I do get why you would want to do that. I talk to people about uh navigation uncertainty and actually getting practice that navigation uncertainty. I I'm talking about it hypothetically, of course, but you're you're dealing with it now quite literally, and there's going to be an awful lot of uncertainty that you're gonna have to be navigating from the 12s to the winds to the currents to the other shipping lanes. I mean, I'm I'm I'm curious as to the training that you've put into this, and not logistics-wise and kind of sea survival stuff, but more physically. What kind of how on earth do you prepare for something like this?
SPEAKER_02My answer might surprise you, guys. Uh, I've done nothing.
SPEAKER_00Doesn't surprise you.
SPEAKER_02I I don't get me wrong, I I'm not arrogant enough to think that I don't need to train. Um, I I would be much happier if I had uh managed to to set down a training program and stick to it physically. I I don't actually think that you need to be super fit to do this. Um you it's it's absolutely more of a mental game. Uh, and and the only people that really understand that are maybe if guys have done some you know some tough military-style training where it takes you beyond physicality into the realms of you know where your strength of mind comes in. Um it I I um I would have sincerely loved to have done a training program. However, COVID just wrecked my plans. Um, it I I was in uh I call it Fat Camp in Thailand. I've done it a couple of times. Uh they're brilliant things to go and do. I love it. It's if you imagine a cross between an all-inclusive hotel and a gym, so you you turn up there, they um look at what kind of a specimen you are, do some simple tests with you, give you a baseline, ask you what you're there for and what you want to achieve. So a lot of people go there to lose weight. Everybody wants abs. So I was there for eight weeks. I was I was booked in for eight weeks, and I was doing that um is it March, April time for two months, and then I plan to go back and do another two months, December and January. And through the summer, I'd be coastal rowing, so actually learning to row, learn some rowing technique to bridge the gap between those two really, really focused periods of training. And the idea was by going away, you you're you I have no other focus, nothing other than training physically, you know. And I'm a little bit older, I'm 49, I'll have my 49th birthday, middle of June. Uh, so hopefully I'll be on my way when I have my 49th birthday. So I'm no spring chicken, I've had some knocks, uh, I'm a dirt biker, so I've you know bashed my knees around and I've bashed my shoulders around and stuff like that. So a lot of my training was to do with becoming robust, uh, you know, getting my injuries as good as they can be, classic boot neck back and knees and hips and ankles, all of that stuff's all going on. Um, so it was it was about getting my body as good as it could be, um getting a bit fitter and a bit stronger. Um and then COVID hit and it all went to it all went to a ball of truck. So so I I've I flew out of Bangkok on, I believe I'm right in saying this. I definitely got the third from last seat, and I believe I was on the second to last BA flight out of Bangkok. Um, because the planet was just shutting down right at the beginning of the pandemic. So I made it home by the skin of my teeth. I'd probably still be there if I hadn't have got that flight.
SPEAKER_00Mate, what you've just said um regards to your training and preparation for this or lack of um would will blow people's minds. I I do get it. Um it's hard for me. I've I've I've not spent a single moment of my life in a in an ocean going rowing boat, so I've got no context there. But you know, the things you're saying, you've your preparation has been in the years of pushing yourself, and and we would know it as physical, but even still never in a competitive way, just uh constantly finding new ways to learn more about yourself. From being a uh a lad, I understand you grew up in Nottingham, I'm Derby. So, you know, okay, I'm I'm not far away from you at all. And um, you know, there was no real understandable reason why I joined the Marines. It was actually, well, that's a massive challenge. I wouldn't mind going to seeing if I could do that with zero expectation that I ever would. And and that pretty much is the story of my career. You know, there's very little planning involved, but there was always kind of these big chunks of challenge that I thought that's attractive to me because I don't know if I can do that. Now I hear that, and uh I I I do my best to try and communicate with people of saying this is navigation uncertainty. Go and try it, and you might be surprised if you've got a compelling enough reason why you're doing it. And again, I've attached compelling reasons to the things that I've done in my past, but give us another insight into the well, you just want to see if you can, which is huge. I get it, but there's there's got to be a bigger pull than that. And I'm aware that there's a few charities that you're you're you're pushing for and and keen to promote in this.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, so there's um there's two charities. One is the SBS Association, and the second one is Rock to Recovery. Uh so the the SBS Association comes in through my uh friendship with a guy called Toby Guthrich. Uh, I'm actually, I don't know if you can see that, I'm wearing his t-shirt at the minute.
SPEAKER_00Toby's been on the pod. Toby's been on the pod, and his podcast landed unbelievably well. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, Toby's uh, you know, he's a young guy. I think he's early 30s now. I believe he was shot 10 or 11 years ago. Um, so he he joined the Royal Marines, he came over from South Africa, joined the Royal Marines, and then um passed the course and went SBS. Um, I I met Toby at my local dirt bike circuit when he he came to to shoot some video footage to help launch the bravery brand. So that's where I first came across Toby, and that was probably three or four years ago now. Um, so I've I've helped him a little bit with uh some of his trade stands, you know, just to be an extra pair of hands for him and talking to members of the public about bravery and what it is. Um, I think Toby's inspirational. Um I I um I'm I'm doing my best through my row, you know, I'm doing my row for my own reasons, but it's nice to be able to help Toby on the back of it. Um so just pop that to one side briefly. Um there's also uh the obvious charity for me to raise money for would be um the Royal Marines Charity, but there's a crew of four here called Ocean Revival, who already have a very big campaign and they're already raising money for the Royal Marines Charity. Um they should have rode out um this time last year, but COVID scuffed that. So they're they're like 18 months older and further down the line than me. They've already hoovered up about 50 grams worth of donations. And if I am just another Royal Marine doing the same route at the same time, um raising money for the same charity, I'm appealing to the same demographic. Um, and you know, bearing in mind that you know 98 odd percent of the SBS are raw marines, I thought, well, that's quite a good fit. Um, so the SBS Association are instrumental in Toby's continued care. Agreed, yeah. Um so uh you know that that's um uh that's where the idea came from. Uh and then rock to recovery, that that was quite a this brotherhood thing. You know, I I have an old friend of mine, uh a mutual friend, sorry, uh Dell. Um I I reached out, I knew Dell in Scotland, I haven't spoken to him for 20 odd years. Reached out to him because he now works in maritime satellite communications. I said, Can you help me? Uh I'm doing this road. And he said, Yep, I can lend you all your kit. The last person to use that kit is Jason Fox, none other than.
SPEAKER_00So it's probably it's probably broken then.
SPEAKER_01It's probably broken, yeah, no doubt. Probably way too complicated for Jason to be able to use it. So uh he's gonna film me in when he sees me.
SPEAKER_02Um, so so I then get given Jason's contact details, meet Jason. I tell him that I've you know, I I I've met Toby and uh they're mutual friends. Jason was involved, he was on the ground when Toby was shot. So they're obviously they're they're they're linked and they're joined by that event, you know. And so um, as soon as I said I was raising money for the SBS Association, Jason turned around because he's obviously done a row as well, Team Essence, and he said, Have you got a weather router? To the answer, uh and the answer to that at the time was no. Um, Jason's old man goes by the nickname Silver and is a lifelong sailor, and um is performing um uh he's gonna be my weather router. He he's performing the duties of uh of weather router for me, but Jason's gonna pay for it for me. So um, and that's Jason's way of helping the association. So, in return to that, because I know that um Jason founded Rock to Recovery, uh and what I what I really like about Rock to Recovery is it I I wanted to do something for the civilian sector as well, for civilian mental health. We've had an epic year last year. Yes, veterans' causes are very close to my heart as a veteran, but it I wanted something that would that would recognize that there's other people out there struggling as well and appeal to a different section of society. Uh and Rock to Recovery extends its services out to blue light workers as well. Um, which I you know that was a big a big part in wanting to support it, and as a thank you to Jason for helping me with his, you know, with the weather router, because yeah, that's a good few thousand pounds worth of um of services that that Jason's paying for, you know, on my behalf.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, massive shout out to Team Fox, um, especially getting the Silver Fox involved. Uh, I remember re uh seeing his updates when when Foxy was running across as well. So, yeah, no, brilliant, mate. I I love that. And it's certainly a lot to be said for the the brotherhood, like you're saying, um, getting as many people involved. And there's I know there's been no lack of support um in the last few days and weeks whilst uh you know you've come over a few humps. Um we spoke previously about you know your uh willingness or desire to just go and challenge yourself. Where do you think that stems from, Ding? What's the have you always been a bit like that? This is what people are trying to understand of I the the technical term is outliers. We we spoke earlier about people that are wired up wrong, right? We're we're outliers, these people that grab these challenges that most people wouldn't dream of. Um, is that always something that you've had that's inside you, or is it something you've developed and fostered throughout your kind of career?
SPEAKER_02Um I I was laughing as you were asking me the question there because I I think a big part of that was actually came from the air cadets, which is really embarrassing to uh to admit. Um talking about I I think the idea of of challenging myself really did genuinely come from. I joined the air cadets at the age of the 13. I always wanted to be a pilot. I'm a failed pilot. Um, I I failed the medical, and my brain is way too small as well to be a pilot. Um I blame it on failing the medical, uh, but I was also quite stupid uh at school, and uh I was quite naughty at school uh as well. I had a bad, I had a bad few years um while I was at school. But the uh the the air cadets taught me uh this is embarrassing because I know this is gonna go public, but um you've got uh you know I'm a young lad and I was being naughty at school. Uh my parents were divorcing, and I'm not blaming um the divorce in any way, shape, or form. In hindsight, I think it was a really bizarrely positive um thing to go through uh that divorce, because it taught me that I was in control of my own destiny and I managed to change it. So I I stopped being such a dick at school. Um Uh and rein my behavior in, uh, mainly because I was presented with my very own social worker at one point. So, so beyond beyond just the family nagging me, you know, my parents and my grandparents, it was like official recognition that my behavior was just they'd gone too far. Um, never outrageously bad, but just constantly disruptive. Uh, you know, just probably the same as I am now, to be honest with you, but I can't take much seriously. But so I was having a difficult time at school. Um, but with the air cadets, um, you have to show commitment, you've got to parade. You parade twice twice a week. You've got to have your uniform on. You don't forget 13 years old, and I'm a bit naughty and turning into a bit of a rogue. Um you turn up in your uniform, you've got to iron your trousers, iron your shirt, you've got to keep yourself presentable, uh, you've got to stand on parade, you've got to not fidget, stand still, you know, have respect for this this rank structure. Um and I mean I couldn't stand all of that. That was purgatory for me. But in in return, at the weekend, you get to do all of this really cool stuff. Um I I'm trying to think of some of the things that I did. I was captain of the East Midland shooting team. I learned more about marksmanship in the air cadets than I ever did in the Marines, mate. And I mean that absolutely. Because it was in the days of Bisley, um, you know, when Bisley was was still going, and one of our uh civilian instructors was an ex-Bisley marksman. So he taught me loads about shooting. It was brilliant. Um I was out um hiking and backpacking with them all the time. You'd go flying two or three times a year, so you'd get half an hour of just belt-fed aerobatics, which for a 13, 14-year-old kid who wanted to be an Air Force pilot was just, you know, I lived for those half an hour um uh, you know, experiences, if you like, throughout each year. Two annual camps a year. Um, and it I lived for it. You know, I was out doing something almost every weekend. Um, but to get that, you've got to put up with the the nonsense standing on parade and you know, silly knees bent marching around. Uh so so, but those activities are where I started, like you mentioned an outlier. I think that's where I started. I hit upon the idea of I heard somewhere that you can do a parachute jump. So I'm like, well, I'm gonna do a parachute jump. I was only 15 at the time, so I was on the phone, it was it Langer Airfield in the Midlands. I think it was Langer or Langley. Is it Langer or Langley? I can't remember. Yeah. So I was phoning up saying, I want to come and do some parachuting. And they're like, Does your mum know you're on the phone? Uh and and they explained to me I had to be 16 and I had to have you know parental consent and all the rest of it. So at the age of 16, I was I I did I did my first two or three parachute jumps, just static line stuff. But so many people were telling me that that was that I was crazy to want, you know, why would you want to do that? And you know, I was still fairly young, but I think that's the first flicker of where I started to want to do things that weren't mainstream. The fact that people had doubted me and questioned me, and the fact that I went and did it, so though those very early siege, although a static mind parachute is that big a deal, for such a youngster, I think it's not so Dinger part three.
SPEAKER_00We've had a few technical issues. Um, I'm dressed differently, it's a different day, it's not Hollywood, continuity police had have me. But uh I'm really appreciative, genuinely appreciative, mate, of you coming back on and and uh us getting a chance to tour this because I was I was thoroughly enthused by you know invigorated by what you were saying. So you you mentioned towards the end where it started to break up about how you know you joined the cadets and you were young when you did it, and there was things that attracted you want to be a pilot, probably watch too much Top Gun uh as a young as a young man. Exactly. Yeah, I know I had uh I've got way too many white t sh tight white t-shirts upstairs. And uh yeah, you joined the cadets, and that whilst that you your words there was a lot of nonsense in the cadets, it gave you a number of experiences that you probably couldn't have got anywhere else, like parachuting, like maybe going up and playing. Do you want to elaborate on that and how later on in your life that's kind of continued to happen that you've used those experiences?
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, it was like I say, it was the word that I picked up on the word that you used, um, outlier. Um, and and through the cadets, I started experiencing those things that a lot of other people weren't. Um, you know, I mentioned the parachuting. I I wanted to do that when I was 15. Legally, I had to wait until I was 16. Um, I soloed in a in a glider when I was uh 16 years old before I could drive a car, which again for a young lad is is quite something, and especially for a young lad who wants to be a pilot. Yeah, you know, they they they had me hook line and sinker. Um so the the discipline is something that you have to swallow to be able to get to the exciting stuff. Um in one of your earlier questions, going back to what was yesterday now for both of us, uh you know, you mentioned uh your reasons for joining the corps. I I fell into joining the corps. Um like I say, I wanted to be a pilot. I um I was having trouble at school. I I think my frustration with my parents' divorce was playing out at school. Uh, but my focus for my career was coming from the air cadet side of things, wanting to be a pilot. Um and then um I failed the medical. I don't know how much of this came out, so just if it repeats itself, guys, I apologise, but um I failed the medical. Um, so I had the rug pulled out of me uh altogether with the flying side of things. Um, so the one option I had, I managed to claw a little bit of my um education back. I did manage to get a couple of A levels because that's what I needed to be a pilot. Um so I reigned my behavior in at school, which um that that's kind of why um it's why I think my parents' divorce was actually quite positive because it it made me realize I could I could change my behavior and control my own path in life. And I think that was really poignant for me. Uh really, although it was unpleasant going through that process, it made me realise I had control. Um so I had a couple of A levels, I'd been offered a place at Loughbury University doing industrial design. Um, and I just I yeah, I was just this idiot kid at school who used to stare out the window, um, just wanting to go and run around the athletics track or you know, sports and PE's. The only thing that I was passionate about. Um, so the the idea of doing industrial design filled me with dread. Um and there was a lad in the upper six who was applying to join the Marines, um, and he went down and he passed. So I just thought I'm gonna have a go at that. And it was literally a whim, an absolute whim. Um uh and I never thought I'd pass. And I I think you might be thinking I'm going slightly left. Hopefully, I'll bring it back on to your question. Um I I I I did literally overnight just think, well, I'm just gonna join the Marines and see how far I can get through basic training. And it was literally that. I had no idea.
SPEAKER_00How old were you then, Digga?
SPEAKER_02I was uh 18 when I started basic training, and I turned 19 while I was down at Limpson.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_02Um so I finished my A levels up a sixth, um, turned down the idea of university. I knew I couldn't spend any more time at school. Oh, I wasn't I wasn't the right mentality. I just wanted to run around hills and carry heavy things. Um so the marines seemed like the perfect uh perfect fit for that. So I I went to join the Marines, not expecting to pass. And I think this comes, this is where hopefully my explanation brings me back on. Being an outlier, I I had no fear of failure because bizarrely I expected to fail. Um, I didn't think I was made of the right kind of metal to be a rural marine.
SPEAKER_01Uh so 30 weeks later, when I was stood on the parade school as a pin, getting my green berry, uh, as a King's badman, there's only two people in the world, those people who are King's Badgman and those who aren't. Um I've come playing about air cadets, so I'd might as well make that point.
SPEAKER_00I officially am not, so uh I don't qualify. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so nobody was more surprised than me.
SPEAKER_02Um and so I again it was a it was through that process of not expecting to pass, it made me realize that actually maybe I am capable of more than I think. Um and and so I I give you another classic example. Two years later, I I applied to join uh recce troop. The first six-month deployment I did in the Marines was to Belize in '93. So I I was on on completion of training, I was posted to Zulu Company. Um and we deployed to to um uh uh to Belize. And at the end of the Belize tour uh was a was a recce troop selection. And I was just I was doing as many patrols as I could while I was out there. I I've got so many fond memories of that uh of that tour. It was a fantastic place to be, you know, young lad out in the jungle, honking dirty jungle. Um, I don't know if you've been, but just further answers chasing you around everywhere, um, which is these massively poisonous, aggressive territorial snakes for listeners that don't know what a furlance is. Um and um yeah, I I thought, well, I'm I'm just gonna put in for record troop selection. And I can remember the people around me, and this was this process that started at school with with my parents saying you shouldn't be parachuting or you shouldn't be walking the Pennine Way. Then it was these older guys, these older sweats and Zulu companies saying, You're a sprog, you've only done two years, you know, you've got to do seven, eight, nine years before you apply to join uh Recy True. And I and my attitude was, well, well, yeah, but I it's just it's just for fun, you know. It's it's just it'll give me something to focus on, give me something to train for. Um, and my god, the hardest two weeks of my life, uh, because of the heat out there, we got absolutely uh absolutely hammered. It was ran by a bunch of guys who ended up going on selection. So at the end of Belize, they were all going on selection. So they'd used that tour to just turn themselves into superhumans with the fizz they were doing, and then we turned up uh and they absolutely thrashed us. It was an epic two weeks, and there were four places, and I came fourth. So again, it was uh, you know, and to get into Recce Troopers as a two-year-old marine was not unheard of. I'm not saying I was a trailblazer, but I was young for sure. Yeah, there are other examples of it, but um, it certainly went against the grain.
SPEAKER_00Um, so so that's I was just gonna just gonna say on that dingo, it's such a common story. I I've chatted about this with a few people, and um what you're you know, you going into the marines, your your whole network um around you was probably doubting that you could do it, shaping that opinion that you've had of you probably couldn't do it. I was in the same boat, you know, no, no, I didn't expect to be able to be successful. And then um your time in the marines, you know, you you learn a lot from that experience. You went, Well, actually, that surprised me. I I didn't I did much better than I thought I could. You learn from that, and then you go, Well, you know, I'd really like to go into reccup. And then you're nudging against other people's fears that have never managed to get there. And they go, Well, you're not senior enough, you've got to wait a few years, because if you go and be successful, then why haven't they? And this is one of the things that we see time and time again with the people that keep wiggling to the top of their particular field, whether it's military or whether it's sport, whether it's uh business, that they've just gone, do you know what? I don't actually, I'm not gonna concern myself with what the other people say. This feels right, and I'm gonna give it a go and get that feedback. You just seem to be, and I'm smiling because I know the feedback that you're about to get for the next few months, but uh you're you're you're just someone that obviously is happy to go and get feedback and learn more about yourself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So um and you know, that I think they're two, they were obviously very early in my career. Um, but I think because they were early in my life and my career, I I think they were a lot more poignant, you know, and and and it's as you go through, excuse me, the next 20 years, um, you know, there's there's other there's other examples of that. So it just made me realize that, you know, what is and I'm doing this with the row now, definitely. Um, I don't know if I'm jumping ahead, but you know, what is the actual consequence of failure? Um you know, my row, it has been rode solo before, but the guy took a resupply, so he lost the unsupported accolade. Um, but this route has only ever been rowed once before solo. If I can do it solo, unsupported, if I wanted to big it up, it could be a world first. I don't like that. You know, if I need a resupply, I'll take one. And I'm taking nothing away from the guy that wrote this route. Um uh, you know, it's in 2005, a guy called Oli Hicks, and he deserves all the credit. Um, you know, but but the chances of failure for me are very, very high. But you know, what what's the consequence other than a bit of a ripping down the pub? That is it. That's the sum total and the fact I've spent my life savings, but that's that's you know, I'm prepared to do that because the rewards are will be phenomenal.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I I see what you're saying, okay. So I do I do agree with you on some level, you know, it's like you're you know, what like um person personally, you know, what's the risk to you? Well, it's like you say, it's a bit of a ribbon down uh with your mates. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of people listening here, Dinger. You know, you've got a lot of experience at sea, um, or a fair amount of experience at sea. There's a lot of people going, I can think of bigger risks than a ribbon down the pub from what you're about to take off. So, how we so one I did put out a question or a question to people on social media to, and I've got a few at the end, but just because it's in line with what we're talking about. So you've uh chosen to just ignore a dozen or so uh you know massive risks, consequences that you're just gonna park there. And can we unpick that a little bit? I don't, you know, if you're not happy to, I'm I'm pretty sure you know how you know let's let's just say let's just say there's gonna be some big waves. Let's just say you get capitalized, let's just say Billy No Mate sinks, right? So, you know, that isn't beyond my kind of perception of you know what, you know, how are you reasoning that yourself? How are you dealing with that fear, mate?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I I think maybe what I um uh I said um I didn't explain particularly well. Um so what what you're talking about are the the physical risks to what I'm doing um and the physical risks associated with um a failure. So what what I was talking about is you know, what does it mean to me as a person if I fail? Um obviously I need to survive the failure, which is I think what you're getting at now. Um so so to answer your question, uh, you know, the things that um because I think this is uh an important point, really. And again, it I I've been asked before, you know, do I think my military training has helped me? And the answer is yes, absolutely, it in planning for the road. Um you know, you focus on when it comes to um, you know, how am I going to do this, you focus on all of the all of the things that I have focused on all of the things that could cause me to fail. So single points of failure for ocean rows are very often um failure of steering, because the rudders are on the back of the boat, they get smashed by these huge waves and they get ripped off. Um another one is my watermaker. I I I can carry enough bottled water, and I do carry fresh bottled water, and that's for emergency to tide me over. If I lose my main water maker, I'll have enough supplies just to be to be picked up by a passing ship. Um, but if if I'm still saying if I'm only halfway across and I lose my main water maker, I'm unlikely to be able to carry on because I need water. It's as simple as that. And I'm exercising, I'm gonna be rowing for you know eight, ten, sometimes twelve hours a day. Um, so what what I've done is, and this is I just think this is very, very military. You just focus on all of the things that could cause you to fail, and you're just planning contingencies for all of them. So the water maker, I've been to um a guy in Western Supermare who is uh Mr. Watermaker for ocean rowing boats in the UK, and I've spent the whole morning or most of a day with him going through fault finding. I'm carrying spares. Um, I've got a brand new watermaker. Uh, so it's not an old thing that we've reconditioned, it's brand new. So I I've got mitigation there, and I've also got satellite telephones and reach back to him. So any problems that I have that I can't suss out or figure out, I'll be on the phone to him and he can help me. And you know, I've ensured that I've got as many spares as is realistic and the tools to perform whatever it is that I might need to do. Steering, I've completely massively over-engineered the back of my boat. Um, it's um compared to what it was, is it's too difficult to try and explain, you know, without pictures to explain to people what I've done to it. But um it's just suffice to say, it's much, much stronger um than it was. Um so I I've I've also put hydraulic steering on there, and I've got an autopilot. So if the autopilot fails, I can go back to manual hydraulic steering. If the manual hydraulic steering fails, I can disconnect the ram and I can go to what would be an old-fashioned um, and it's literally two steering lines and cam cleats where you lock you set the rudder on the bearing you want and lock it off. So I've got three levels of steering um of contingency um on that. I've got life rafts, uh communications, uh, I've got a BGAM satellite, I've got uh two Garmin inreachers, both satellite, I've got two satellite telephones. So there's what that's five means of satellite communication, all at different levels, um, and a lot of it in grab bags. So there's one of everything in a grab bag, which will go with me in the life raft. So, you know, I'm hope I'm hoping what I'm doing is painting a picture of uh what would be quite a complicated um series of contingency plans that go from if everything's nice and the sun's shining, because nearly everything depends on power, with everything working and I'm rowing along in a calm sea, to me being turned upside down and needing to get into my life raft, I should still be able to effect a rescue. And it'll be scary, don't get me wrong, uh, but the book will be better at the end of it. So um no, yeah, so so so I mean I've spent like 14 months constantly second guessing um what might go wrong and putting contingencies in place.
SPEAKER_00So, again, this so this is important, this is really important for people to understand. So, earlier on in the conversation yesterday, um, you you were talking about the lack of physical preparation that you've been able to put in, um, to the point you described it as well. I've I've done no physical preparation for this, which uh could blow people's minds. I I understand you leaning on your attributes, but you don't have to be a physical specimen Olympic rower to complete this, you just have to be an outlier, let's just say that, right? So you've got to you've got to fancy the challenge to begin with, and so you're you're doing that. Some people may listen and that I go, that's pretty reckless. There's no way I would do that. Now, when it comes to the planning that you have been able to put into control your control, you have been incredibly thorough and detailed, right? And I'm hearing multiple contingencies for every single eventuality. So some people saying, What if this happens? That's what sounds really scary. You thought about all of these things and put in as many things in place as you can. There's always going to be something. This is why we all do eventually walk outside the front of our house. There's always something that could happen if you're gonna double wrap yourself, but you've done everything you can. The one thing that interests me, and we and again, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you you uh you mentioned just before we started recording again that you, you know, because I I put a question out on social media. Uh the first quite the first answer I got was, why is he so good looking? And I was like, Oh, that's suspicious. Who's that? And I and well, it turns out it was you, and uh that was quite early. That was quite early. It was quite early. And I'm looking at my watch going, well, that's really early. So obviously you're up early that you're up early than you should be. And I asked you that question before we started talking. You said I'm just not sleeping very well at the minute because you you know, you've you've gone off to sleep and you've got a knot in your stomach. And like that's understandable. You've done as much planning as you can, but how are you dealing with this internal? Pressure now to actually go and get started, this gap before you start now.
SPEAKER_02Um, how am I dealing with it? Um the time's not particularly well, if I'm honest with you. Um you know, I I you're right, I I've got this permanent knot in my stomach. Um I I believe uh fear and excitement are very, very similar. It's a very blurred line between those two emotions. Um, you know, one is exactly what it says on the tin, it's exciting. You know, and a rough sea in a small boat to a point will be exciting. Um and then if those seas continue to grow, it's gonna bridge across into fear. Uh, and and then I'm just gonna be hanging on and I'm gonna be terrified. There's an element of once I'm in that situation, because I think about this a lot, when I'm in that situation, there is nothing I can do to get out of it. Nothing at all. Um, yes, I've got beacons that I can pull, uh, you know, e-perbs, plbs, personal locator beacons. Sorry, and an e-perb is a um an emergency uh distress beacon. So you press a button on it and it bounces off satellite and goes to um Falmouth Coast Guard. I don't know if I explained that earlier yesterday. Sorry, guys. And a and a PLB is just a smaller version, it just means that you can clip it to your belt. And e-perb's quite big and it stays with a boat and a PLB. So I can pull these things uh and and get a signal to say I need help in this storm, but it's gonna take uh Falnworth Coast Guard a certain amount of time to locate the nearest passing passing ship, and then they'll come to my aid. And then you've got to remember that I'm a uh a seven and a half meter long rowing boat that sits half a meter above the waterline, um, trying to get up the side of a what could be a huge container ship or passenger ferry. Um, and and in a in a big sea, that's where your problems start. Uh you know, so um there's an element of go going back to the fear thing, that there's just nothing I can do to control it. It is just pure survival. There is nothing that I can do physically to or mentally to make the process of getting off that ocean rowboat and trying to climb up a Jacob's ladder or a scramble net on the side of a ferry. There's nothing I can do, so it's almost like there's no point worrying about that. Um so I I just kind of park it. When I think about that, it scares me. And I think, well, I'm just either going to survive that or I'm not. And and it's just very matter of fact. Uh I I can't no, you are, you are. There's no process, or there's nothing that I can say, well, I can do this, and I can, you know. I just have to accept that that is a possibility.
SPEAKER_00No, I and I I I hear what you're saying, and I I can relate to it in in in a number of ways. And I and I think what I've spoken to other people about in the past is you you've practiced this, and this is how you've got good at it. So you you're recognizing that like initially what you said is fear and excitement are very similar. Bang on. They're almost your body doesn't hardly know the difference. And when you're afraid, most people would go, Oh, I don't like this, I'm going to take myself out of this situation. What you've done from 15 years old trying to jump out of airplanes, probably sooner, you know. Um, you've taught yourself that that horrible feeling you get, you can do something with that. And actually, the reality afterwards is never as bad. So you've had spent a lifetime now. You know, did you say you're you're 40, just turned 49? Is that right?
SPEAKER_02Um 49. Hopefully, I'll be having my 49th birthday in the first couple of weeks or two. Uh middle of June is my birthday.
SPEAKER_00Brilliant. So you're you're nearly 49, and you've had a full life of of you know experiences where you've been able to overcome this bit of anxiety for this thing that's too big for you to kind of go against, but go, do you know what? I'm I'm a part of an organization that just is asking this on it. I'll do it and see how it is. And we we continually do this, don't we? And so we've you've you've had that development. So I you know, I I hear that, and now you've come to like it, you you recognize it as well. This is me going outside of my comfort zone. People ask all the time or say all that, you need to get out of your comfort zone. And well, this is it, it feels like this, and it's awful, and no one really likes it. And then when you're in it, you go, I don't want to be here. And that's what being outside your comfort zone actually is.
SPEAKER_02And you're you're around so it get that gets banded around so much, doesn't it? Get out of your comfort zone. It's almost like it's almost like it's in fashion to talk about that and positivity as well. I I don't massively get off on this overly positive, positive outlook on things. You know, I've already said that I spent 14 months looking at what might go wrong, but that's my way of um if I can satisfy myself that the negatives are manageable, then it allows me to remain positive and have the self-belief that you know, yeah, I might just get across. Uh uh and if I do, then it's absolutely worth it. But yeah, um, I no, I uh I guess getting out of your comfort zone is just yeah, say it. Everyone says it, but and and you know, do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it's a it's a it's a verb, it's a verb, isn't it? It's not a saying, it's not you need to actually take action against it, which is what you're doing. I I I'm the same as you, uh you've never you've never shared that before. What you said about don't buy into the kind of overpositive stuff. And it's like there is a there is a definitely a place for positivity. I'm not saying I'm a negative person, I know you're not a negative person, but we just don't live in either end of the spectrum, you know, too long. It's like fun things happen, we love it, we enjoy it. Bad things happen, we think about it, we move on. We try and revert back to this neutral position. It's like things can go wrong, right? What can I do about it? Do that, bring myself back to negative. When you recognize your mind going there, bring yourself back to neutral. Sorry, you know, that's that's kind of what we're doing here. And and people don't recognize that they just spend too long in this negative area, and then don't actually know how to enjoy the moments of wow, this was good, and then then moving on and move, you know, that's we're always seeking living in that positive mindset, which again I I just don't buy into either, mate. So no, I love that. I love that.
SPEAKER_02I was talking to um Toby, uh Bravery, Toby Dutch. And um, this is in the early days of the row. Uh, you know, I knew I bought my boat and I said, Toby, I want to put your logo on the nose of the boat and you know, try and give um bravery a bit of exposure. And at the time I was looking for uh a name for the for the campaign. You need to you need to brand it as something and label it as something. I came up with that NY, it's a UK thing. But one of the things that was suggested was mind over matter, because you know, Rock to Recovery is a is a um mental health charity, elements of what the SBS Association does, obviously they're looking after guys who are suffering with with mental health issues as well. And and this is why I think Toby's so inspirational, he looked at me and um because it goes back to this overly positive thing, you know, mind over matter, my mind over the matter of rowing the North Atlantic. Uh, and I think it'd be pretty arrogant to think that you're you could be so strong in your head that you're gonna beat the North Atlantic. It the North Atlantic will let me across if it decides it wants to. It doesn't matter how much of a person I am, it doesn't matter how much I can squat or bench press or how long I can row for, or whether I can stay awake for 48 hours and never take a break on the oars. It's got nothing to do with that, it's got to do with Mother Nature allowing me across. So, you know, Toby was saying, you know, your mind, because you can be as well prepared with your kit and in your head as you like, said, but the matter in your instance is um is the North Atlantic. He said, and you ain't gonna overcome that. This is Toby, you know, debriefing me because I'd suggested this, uh not debriefing me, that's the wrong word. Um, this was Toby giving me his opinion. And then he turned around to me and he looked at me and he said, you know, he said, I thought I was pretty tough when I went through that door, you know, in my mind and in my head. He said, the matter in my case was the bullet that severed my spinal cord. And mate, I nearly lost it. I knew, you know, and he's absolutely right. Uh and so I didn't call it mind over matter because after that little chat, I realized that it wasn't appropriate in any way, shape, or form. But it reinforced this idea that you know, this overly positive stuff sometimes I think is because you you you miss some of the things that might make you stumble or fall along the way if you're just blindly positive. Yeah, I think you have to allocate energy to the things that can stop you, and then it will leave a positive way forward. Yeah, you know. My attitude towards will I get across is uh I've got as good a chance as anyone else. I've it's as simple as that. I've got as good a chance as anybody else.
SPEAKER_00No, it's so true. You're you're so humble, Dinga. Uh, and you're also, you know, your experience uh uh in with the sea and with the ocean, um, with water is is just coming through. There's no she's a cruel mistress, is the water. And there's gonna be things absolutely out of your control. And I love the fact that you're just parking them where they belong. Well, that that's out of my control. I'm not gonna dwell on that too much and you know move on. What's in can what's in your control is you've you've been diligent and you've well prepared for everything. So you know, I've I've you know, I I I understand it. And I think what people might be missing in the in looking at the problem from a from a kind of helicopter position is uh um well, this is like other people's challenges. People row across all the time, they do, but this is different. You're on your own. So when you stop, you're potentially going backwards, right? So how are you how are you managing that in your mind? With you know, are you just what's I know your physical preparedness hasn't been great, but how are you prepared for it? Kind of to routinely do these daily workouts as such. What's your kind of plan? Do you have a plan with regards to that?
SPEAKER_02Um, as regards the routine on the oars, it uh a big catchphrase that you'll hear when you look at ocean rowing is two on, two off. Um, and that is absolutely true for crews, uh, because you can you can row efficiently and effectively for two hours. After that, you start to tail off physically, you'll start to get tired. Um, so then the the the other half of the crew will come on uh and take the oars, and then you go rest for two hours. And you know, there's an ocean revival crew, X uh oh sorry, serving Marines uh going across and doing a North Atlantic row at the same time as me. And absolutely they'll be on two on, two off. But as a solo, that doesn't particularly work. Um it's rowing at night as a solo is particularly risky, the risk of being washed off the deck because you you can't see where the waves are coming from. Um, and if you do get washed off, there's no one to throw you a lifeline, and there's no one to turn the boat around and come and pick you up. Um, so it solos don't particularly like rowing at night. Uh so my routine is going to look something similar to a day in the office. Um if there's a good moon and if it's relatively calm, I might row for an hour or two before it gets light, break for breakfast, um, break for a morning coffee, break for lunch, probably an hour or two sleep, break in the afternoon, evening meal. Um, and then again, if it's light and if it's calm, I might row for an hour or two after sunset uh and into the evening. But then I'm drifting. Um so the difference with a solo is as you've already said, when I'm not rowing, I'm drifting. But I've got to make an assessment of the conditions. If the if the swell is from behind, I'll let the boat run. And I might wake up and I'll be a mile or two ahead. If it's uh the swell is against me or the wind is on my nose, I've put out uh what they call a parachute anchor, which is uh it's a great big, it's about I think it's nine, twelve feet across, inflates with water, you throw it in the water and it inflates, and obviously the wind blows you back, it goes out on a hundred meters of line and inflates with water and anchors you to the surface of the water. I'll still go backwards slightly, uh, but it'll massively reduce the amount that I go backwards. Um so I'll I'll trim the boat when I rest, I'll trim the boat depending on the conditions.
SPEAKER_00I love it how you uh you just sorry, Ding. I know how you described that solos don't like to um row at night, and you you're not even describing yourself as a solo uh rower. You're it's other people, other people that solo. I don't solo. Like genuinely, someone asked me how how much um how much of ocean rowing have you done up to this point? Like I know physically training-wise, it's not, but so how many times have you rowed long distances on uh on this boat?
SPEAKER_02Um I've logged about 120 hours rowing in. Um, you know, and and most of those rows, I would have liked it to have been much, much more than that. That's about the bare minimum that I was comfortable with. So it I mentioned the Tallisca Whiskey Atlantic Challenge um when we were chatting yesterday. Um I think I believe I'm right in saying, uh, and I'm happy to be corrected if I've got this slightly wrong. I think they have to have 120 hours on the boat and uh spent at least one night on the boat. So I've used their rules as the basis for my preparation. So I was I wanted 120 hours and I got it by the skin of my teeth. Um the problem was as I got my boat finished and ready for the water, and this is this is classic, the problems that I've had. Um I got the boat back from the the guys that were helping me. Um, so I was at a time where I could then tow it down. I was I was doing all my training rows out of Portland. Um, and two days later we went into lockdown. The last lockdown, it was um end of November, early December, wasn't it? The last one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, and uh and so I I you know I've not rowed my ocean rowing boats at all at this point. Uh you know, and I I needed to have it in a shipping container come uh middle of March. Uh and I'm like, so I was on the phone, I was basically pleading my case to the Coast Guard and um Portland Harbor Master saying, Look, this is the training that I've done. I've done my sea survival, I've done my comms, I've got all this kit on board, I need to do this thing, I'm raising money for charity. Um, and they didn't particularly like it, but they did eventually say, Well, look, as far as I'm concerned, we could clash you as a professional skipper, and that's what allowed me to continue to train. Um, so um, I could only row during daylight hours, and I was doing between 12 and 16 nautical miles during those daylight hours. So I'd get up at O'Crack's Farrah, be in the water for um, you know, don't forget this was January, so it's freezing cold um uh and and dark nights. So by seven o'clock, half past seven, I was rowing out of Portland Harbour and I'd come back in at last line.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Mate, is um is uh is the isolation potentially three months plus on your own? Is the isolation a concern for you? Is that something you've thought about?
SPEAKER_02Um it's definitely something that I'm I've thought about, yes. Uh some people have asked me, you know, am I engaging with psychologists to come up with coping mechanisms? And because COVID has played um such a role in my prep, even if I'd wanted to, I don't think I would have had the time. Uh, you know, but actually I I want to see whether I can do this on my own merits. I want to I I don't want to be referring to a framework of ideas that somebody else has given to me in my times of need. I want to try and do do it with my own framework and in my own head. Uh so yes, I've thought about it. Um, I mean, I'm boring. So, and I've got to put up with myself on this boat for um, like you say, between three and four months. So it yes, I've thought about it. No, I don't know if I can cope with it, and that's all part of the curiosity for me. I I don't think I can give you a much better answer than that, guys.
SPEAKER_00That's a great answer.
SPEAKER_02It's part it's part of the challenge for me. It's part of it. Yeah, um, but I did so I did some walking. I I did um I I have had element uh extended periods of solitude. Uh in 2017, I walked all the Monroes in Scotland.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I heard that.
SPEAKER_02So on the back of my um four years up in in 4.5 commando, um you know, we'd go and do winter training, and and I absolutely adore the mountains up in Scotland. Um and when I was drafted away, I I I've said for years, one day I'm gonna go back and do the Monroe. And I did, I did them in one go. It took me five months, but there were days there, there were like four, five, six days where I wouldn't see a soul. I was living in my camper van, I'd get up and do a day walk, I'd bag a few summits, go back to my van, drive to the start of the next day, drive out. Uh and sometimes, especially in the bad weather, I wouldn't see a soul. Um, and things did and and start to happen to my mind. Um and I'm expecting that, but to a much greater extent on the road. Um, and and I'll give you an example of that. Um some days I'd set off and I'd be in a happy place, and and my head would be full of memories. You can remember a lot more about your life than you think you can. Um, and when you have time to to where there's no external pressure, all I had to do was check my nav every now and again. Um, and if it was a clear day, sometimes the navigation was particularly easy. You could see what you were going up, and you'd walk to the top and then walk back down again. Um so some days I'd be reflecting on happy times, and other days, and it happened a couple of times where I was really quite down. Um, and I started thinking about the the sad things in my life, and we've all got them. You know, my life's no no better or no worse than anybody else's. Everybody has the things that make them happy, and everybody has the things that make them sad. And there's two or three days I can remember where I just almost walked for most of the day with with you know with a tear rolling down my cheek. And I I came to the point where I just thought, just let it happen, you know, just just just go with the flow, you know, and I checked me now, and I walked up and down the hill, and then the next day I'd get out and I'd be in a in a happy place again. Um so I mean this was I'd have three or four days where I wouldn't see anybody, and then I have to get water from your camper van and I need a food resupply, so I'd be back into the nearest town and and I'd get interaction again. But with the row, I'm not gonna get that. So I think I'm gonna have elements of that, but on a much bigger uh scale.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I I I hear that, I hear that. And with regards, we've spoken a little bit about fear, um, because there's you know, you thought about the isolation, you don't know, so we don't spend too much time thinking about it. And it will do you trust yourself to be able to deal with it when it comes, otherwise you wouldn't start right. So, so with regards to the event, kind of two questions really this like what is your biggest fear? What what's your biggest fear that's hanging over you right now?
SPEAKER_01Um I'm terrified of open water.
SPEAKER_03True.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, so every I don't know how often I'm gonna have to do this because the water is much colder in the North Atlantic. But if when you listen to the experience of uh the mid-Atlantic rowers, like I say, it's a lot more people go mid-Atlantic. Every two weeks I have to go over the side and scrape the barnacles. You get these things called gooseneck barnacles that attach themselves to the hull of your boat. And you get enough of them on there, you're dragging them through the water, they're hitchhikers. Um and you you go down and you scrape, you've got to go over the side, mask and snorkel in a you know, like an ice scraper. Um, and you scrape these barnacles off, and you you'll hear them say that they get an extra quarter of a knot of boat speed back. Um, well, if you're only rowing at two knots, a quarter of a knot, it's 25% of your boat speed. Now it won't be as often as that for me, um, because um the water's a lot colder. But I'm gonna have to go over the side. Uh and I was like 14 years old when I watched Jaws. It's as simple as that. I know where it came from. I'm one of those generations of people. I sat and bit a hole in my finger as a young lad watching like this, and I I I gnawed uh a hole in my finger watching Jaws, it terrified me. And I've had this ridiculous fear of open water ever since. And it doesn't make any sense. I was a ship diver in the Marines, so uh you know, I've been in and out of the ocean and dived underneath ships and stuff uh as a ship's diver. If somebody's next to me in the water, that fear is manageable. If at any point, and this is as ridiculous as when you finish your dive and you're coming up alongside the you know the the the you know your your safety boat, I would always grab hold of the guys that were helping and make sure I was the first one out of the water because I didn't want my legs hanging in the water and be the only one in the water. It's ridiculous. It's it's pathetic and it's embarrassing admitting it, but it's it's the truth. Absolute proof of the matter.
SPEAKER_00The 80s Hollywood movies have got a lot to answer for. I'm exactly the same. I'm petrified of sharks. I tell myself it's a healthy fear, but sometimes it is absolutely incapacitated me. I've got an article on the website where I've written about my fear of sharks. It absolutely incapacitated me. I wanted to be a pilot too, and I've got an infatuation with tight white t-shirts. But that's the top gun. And finally, I joined the military because of Rambo, probably, or commando, more likely. So yeah, Hollywood's got a lot to answer for. Unfortunately, you know, real world isn't Hollywood. And you know, we're gonna we're gonna see snippets, I'm sure, on social media, I'm sure of what you're about to do. And you know, genuinely, mate, it inspires me to think about well, we can all continue to do so so much more. You know, I'm I feel lucky in some ways that I've had a career that has enabled me to have certain experiences. I chose to kind of put myself there. But in the last two years, I've I've not done much. I like to get up the hills with the kids and and and carrying my wife, but we don't do an awful lot outside that lockdowns not help that, of course. But you know, listening to friends such as yourself and other people that I'm able to tap into of the things that they're able to do and still do, you know, it is inspiring. So I know you're in you know you're inspiring me. So you you you absolutely will be inspiring others. How can people that are listening that are inspired by it, Dina, how can they get involved and help out and and try and raise some money for some well-needed causes?
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, so I I'm I'm going out on social media. I've never been on social media before in my life until I bought my boat and um and I decided I was going to raise money for charity. So when I started speaking to the charities, they're like, Well, you have to have a social media campaign. Um, so if they go to NY2UK solo row, and it's a number two, it's a number two, NY to UK solo row, they'll find me on um Facebook, they'll find me on Instagram uh and Twitter, they're all the same. And if you smack .co.uk on the end, you will find my website. And there's links to the website anyway from all the socials.
SPEAKER_00We'll stick it, we'll stick it in this as well. Anyone listening will be able to find it on the on all the links.
SPEAKER_02And on the on the website, there will be a link to my tracking page, so you can laugh at me going backwards. Um that should update every hour. Um so that's on the um on the home page of the website. Um and also the the fundraising link.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So it's uh virgin money giving page. And so if they want to help, I mean, I have all the equipment that I need. Um, assuming I can get out on the weather and I don't have to pay for this hotel room much longer because it's crucifying me and my money's running out fairly rapidly. Uh, so long as I get out on the weather in the next few days, I you know, my my my attempt is underway. So financially, I've I've obviously had what I need. So, really, if they want to help, a donation to the charity would be would be fantastic.
SPEAKER_00Brilliant. Um, I did have a question around finances. Someone's, you know, you mentioned earlier on that you've you've funded this with your life life savings, and you know, that'll inspire people to maybe do a little bit more. But you know, has there been any other sponsorship come easy?
SPEAKER_02Is it something you've really struggled with or um my original plan when I first started hatching this idea, uh Gaz, was to buy a boat, load it with food, ship it to New York, and row across. I wasn't gonna tell anybody, other than you know, the immediate people around me, uh, you know, my immediate friends that I see on a day-to-day basis. Um and I was just gonna just gonna go and have a go and tell no one. I'm not doing it for any other reason, um, other than that personal curiosity. And then I started to think it's not actually right to do something of that magnitude and not raise money for charity. Um, and then the pandemic kicked in and it's you know, a lot of people are struggling, so these charities do need help. Um then I came up with the idea that I'd get to the halfway point. Uh you asked me about my biggest fears. Uh another fear I've got, in all seriousness, is a lame attempt. A really lame attempt, because I have got a bit of uh publicity now. I think there's about 13 or 14,000 pounds in the charity pot. Now there was a guy that tried to do this route last year, and within 24 hours he got washed up on Long Island Beach because of the tides and the winds. Um, and and I'm not knocking him. It's a very, very difficult place to get out of in an ocean roamboat that weighs nearly a ton. Um, you're at the mercy of the elements, it's a busy shipping lane, uh, and the tides rip, and the weather is unpredictable and variable. So um it, you know, I've got a lot of five my own money invested in this, and uh one of my biggest fears is you know going two days down the coast and just getting smashed by southerlies because that will push me north and I'll be on the beach, and and and that will be the end of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um any chance you can any chance you can bungee on to the other team, the Royal Marine team that are leaving the same time. Is that an opportunity?
SPEAKER_01They keep saying that. Let us know if you want to show, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So uh and what do they think of you? Well, they have you you must have had a chat with them. What do they think of what you're doing? Obviously, they're doing as a four four man team.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they were livid with me, they were absolutely human. I did a podcast over here with a guy called um Jack Carr. Um, and on that podcast, I was telling the story of Lee Spencer, who's he's uh an ex-Raw Marine, an amputee. I don't know if you know Lee. He goes under the under the name the Rowan Marine. And I had a day-long chat with Lee very early in my preparation. Um and he did it the row the row as a four, and he said to me when he finished, he just felt like he'd only rode a quarter of it. Yeah, so he very quickly went back and um he started planning his solo row, and he's now a world, he's broken the able-bodied world record, uh, which is which is quite something as an amputee. Um, so I was telling, I was saying this on this podcast, and uh so so the ocean revival crew were fuming, they're like, well, we're just gonna go and row quarter of an ocean each. So I've been getting nothing but nothing but green fall from since I went public.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're they're their assistance, their assistance if you need it in a few days' time, Dinger, that's gone now. It's gone. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You asked me something about finances, didn't you? And I don't think I addressed it.
SPEAKER_00Just whether sponsorship had been easy to come by.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I I had a I had a work contract for the middle of last year. Um, so my my initial aim was to self-fund the whole thing because I wanted to own the failure financially as well as the success. I don't know if you can get a feel of why that would be. I didn't feel comfortable taking other people's money knowing that I was doing such a difficult route, knowing that the chances of failure were quite high statistically. So I just wanted it to be mine. Uh, you know, and it would also be, I would own the success as well, um, you know, which would be equally as sweet. Um, so I wanted to own the whole thing. Um, but I lost this work contract, it less left me with uh a 15,000 pound shortfall in my finances. Um and the answer to your question is because of the pandemic, none of the big corporations were interested. Nobody. Um I I wrote to uh Audible, you know, the audiobooks. Yes. Um which is backed by is that backed by Amazon, Amazon or Google Amazon?
SPEAKER_00They're connected to Amazon, I know that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So I wrote to them and I said, Look, you know, I'm I'm doing an ocean row, I'm gonna be by myself for four months. Um, there's no better advert for audio books. I wrote in this piece, you know, and I said, Would you support me with some audio books? And they sent me three free um audio books. Send me codes and said, Yeah, we'd love to support you. Can you send us all of your PR material, all of your videos, all of your photographs, um, and we'll give you three credits, which is worth about 15 quid? You know, and you know, you think of the bumper year that Amazon has had in the pandemic, where people have just been sat at home spending their furling with it. And I was I was livid, I was I was instructed by it, and I've not I've not cut them in.
SPEAKER_01I've got I'm not vaporing.
SPEAKER_00I love that, I love that. Jeff Bezos, are you listening? Have you heard the reality of your organization? No, mate. I uh I I love that, and also and your response, which I mean I love, you know, how you know, screw you, audio book. I'm gonna listen to my iPod and I'm just gonna take some tunes, some uh yeah, love it, mate. Um uh no, I I expected that the sort of financial challenges were there, and because just of the time, just the period of time that we're in. So fair play to you. I mean, I just encourage as many people as possible to to help out. Um, I know, and again, I know you know this, Dinger, that it's difficult times for a lot of people, a lot of uncertainty out there, but you know, this is a cause everyone can hear it on the podcast. This isn't for Dinga. Well, if there is, there's there's the things that you're doing that you're really looking forward to, but you've made it much more uh selfless and you've realized that there's an opportunity to raise money for charity here. You could have just done it in the cover of darkness almost and uh just got it cracked.
SPEAKER_02I already got it around in Los Angeles. That was my original plan, which is to disappear.
SPEAKER_00And I have actually got a so I've got so much respect for that also. But the fact that you've turned it around now into kind of a a charity up, a charitable opportunity. Again, I've got a I've got so much respect for that. So I just implore people to to to to dig a little bit deeper than they think they can and just maybe uh reach out to Dinger and the support crew that will be kind of running his social media, I'm sure, over the next few months and and just try and uh help out in whatever way. Because um, you know, I'll be I'll be watching keen keenly, mate. I'll be supporting in whatever way I can, both financially and uh and through again whatever means that we can come up with. But uh yeah, thoroughly looking forward to watching it happen. Um thoroughly excited and scared for you. And uh, so again, I I wait with uh bated breath on all your regular updates and the teams updates, whether that's Silver Fox or um anybody else that might be talking to us. But yeah, have you got any kind of final words for anyone listening?
SPEAKER_02You know, for me with this row, this has been brewing in one of my section corporals did an ocean row in about 2000. Um, that's where the original seed was sown. That's when I first heard that you could row an ocean. So, and then that that sense of wanting to do it is built. And and for me, it was it would have been sad if I hadn't tried. So, yeah, I mean, I I'm not out here to try and be inspirational. That's not again one of my goals. If if I if people find me inspirational, then that's very flattering. But uh, it's not one of my goals to inspire people. But if somebody sat there on this idea that they want to go and do something, then just have a go. You know, they just you've got nothing to lose. What are the consequences if you try and fail? Probably nowhere near as bad as you think. Probably the same as me, a ribbon down the pub. So long as I survive it, it'll be a ribbon down the pub, you know. But my my life is already richer for the whole process, you know, the just the journey I've had and the hurdles I've had just to get the boat to New York and myself to New York. Um, my life's already, you know, a richer um for the for the experience. 100%. Yeah, just have a go. Yeah, have a go.
SPEAKER_00I love that ding. I'm absolutely certain, regardless of the outcome, there'll be no rippings down the pub because you're you're biting off one of the biggest challenges I've ever heard, and uh, I've got a huge amount of respect. Um, the the sea is the most merciless of opponents. Um, I know you know that. And if you can master your craft there, then you can you can genuinely master it anywhere. So I I I look forward to seeing where this goes, and I'll hope to see you on the other side, my friend.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, Dinger. Thanks,