Unlocking the Power of the Social Economy in West Midlands

Charles Rapson takes us on a fascinating journey through his accidental discovery of social enterprise and his current mission as Social Economy Growth Lead at West Midlands Combined Authority. With refreshing candour, he shares how he's leveraging his position to champion a sector that employs over 100,000 people and engages 200,000+ volunteers across the West Midlands.

The conversation reveals how Charles has successfully shifted perceptions of the social economy within regional government, securing £2.5 million in funding and ensuring social enterprises feature prominently in strategic planning. His innovative place-based approach is rebuilding vital infrastructure by supporting nine organisations to become community hubs where relationships, trust, and partnerships can flourish.

We dive deep into the challenges of social value procurement, with Charles articulating a compelling vision for moving beyond tick-box exercises to measuring real impact. His practical strategies - breaking down large contracts into manageable lots, making social value contractual and measurable, recognising intrinsic value alongside additional value - offer a blueprint for procurement that genuinely supports inclusive growth.

Looking ahead, Charles outlines his comprehensive ecosystem approach to growing the social economy, encompassing everything from business support and access to finance to education initiatives modelled on Scotland's successful Social Enterprise Academy. His determination to map and understand the region's 9,314 social economy organisations demonstrates a data-driven approach to strategic investment.

Whether you're a social entrepreneur seeking opportunities, a public sector professional interested in procurement innovation, or simply curious about how regional economies can become more inclusive, this conversation offers valuable insights into transforming systems from within. Visit the West Midlands Combined Authority website and join their Social Economy Forums to learn more and help shape the future of social enterprise in your region.

Chapters

• 0:35 Introducing Charles Robson
• 5:24 Accidentally Discovering Social Enterprise
• 8:47 Achievements at the Combined Authority
• 12:09 Reimagining Social Value
• 21:55 Building a Social Economy Ecosystem
• 28:00 Social Finance and Future Plans

Transcript

[00:00:00] I bring you inspiring conversations with change makers, social entrepreneurs, and thought leaders who are making a difference.

Whether you're looking to boost your impact measurement, learn from innovative projects, or find fresh ideas to transform your work, you're in the right place.

Welcome to today's episode of the Make an Impact Podcast. Today I'm joined by Charles. Charles, would you like to introduce yourself please? Hi, Heidi. Yes, I am Charles Rapson I currently work for the West Midlands Combined Authority as their social economy. Growth lead and I say currently work for the social economy for the West Midlands Combined Authority.

'cause it's part of a journey for me that started around 20, it was 19 years ago when I stumbled across Social enterprise and I've been involved in it ever since then. And the combined authority is fairly crucial to helping the community growth. So I thought instead of shouting from the car park, I'll come into the building and see what happens there.

So that's what I do. I'm a social economy champion. So what does it actually mean in reality? What are you doing to champion the social [00:01:00] economy? Okay. So basically I am when I was interviewed for the job, they asked me how did I see the role, and I said to them, I'm coming in to make a lot of noise on behalf of the social enterprises and community businesses, and.

We'll steal a lot of your money and I'm gonna invest it in the social economy, and they gave me the job. So that's my job description. But what it basically means is it's creating the conditions that are going to allow social economy organizations to grow.

And by social economy, social enterprises, community businesses, mutuals, cooperatives and charity are trading. So all those bits of what used to be called the third sector that trade. And generate some of their income at least through a business model. That's the bit I'm doing.

So it's things like making sure they got access to the right business skills and support access to finance access to markets and the way that we use procurement and the Social value Act, which you and I have had a few conversations about. Raising awareness of the organizations, making it clear to people, particularly within the public sector what value the social enterprise [00:02:00] social economy provides in terms of their aspirations of growth and jobs and housing and transport and all those things, but for everyone.

So that inclusive growth thing and just trying to build awareness and understanding of the importance of the sector. It sounds like a dream job to me. In reality in theory, it's a dream job. 'cause I go, I get to go in and talk about my favorite subject, people who.

May not know enough about it and help to convince them that this is really important. And it's a resource that the public sector in particular and the private sector could be using in a much more purposeful way. 'cause there's social economy, it's this big. Before we came on the call, I've been sitting trawling through a list of 9,314 social economy organizations.

Tried to classify them and put them in Good luck. Yeah, I'm thinking about a third of the way through the job at the moment, and I've tried AI and all that sort of stuff. It doesn't work. But yeah, it is a huge resource and it's a body of organizations that probably involves around a hundred thousand employees and a couple of hundred thousand volunteers at least probably.

[00:03:00] 300,000 plus people who's made it, their mission in life to tackle inequality in some form or another, whatever that inequality might be. It might do race, gender, all sorts of. Different things. So why don't we use a resource to ensure that we get inclusive growth for all? And so that's the easy part of it, is actually going on talking about that.

'cause I can talk for days on the subject to anyone and frequently do. But the hard bit is, it's, the role involves basically pushing through the paperwork and getting or securing the funding. Arguing for the funding, and then the paperwork. There's something called the single assurance framework, which is the bane of my life.

Because it takes so flipping long to get that through that process. And then you've gotta go through a procurement process and you've got 12 months worth of money and six months are gone before you actually get out the door to do anything with it. So it's it's a bit of a challenge for me at the moment and try to change the system.

So I get meddled in a lot of ways, but a lot of the time I spend. Actually pushing paperwork around and writing reports and filling in forms and working out the social impact of whatever program I'm proposing,

look at the [00:04:00] social impact of programs. But I'd leave the moving paper around and phishing reports in under people's noses to you. It's an interesting challenge 'cause it frustrates the heck outta me because the single assurance framework and the governance procedures in the public sector are really cumbersome. But the taxpayer in me is actually quite grateful for 'em. 'cause I think the diligence and scrutiny that stuff goes under is actually quite intense. So at least if you're a taxpayer, you know that your money has been thought about very carefully before it's actually spent.

So that's why I can do it. And you mentioned that you started out in this, the world of the social economy sector 19 years ago. Yeah. I'm sure it wasn't called the social economy sector. So was that an accident or was that something that you intentionally did?

Entirely by accident, it's my wife's fault. She was working for a charity at the time, and somebody mentioned an organization was looking for somebody with project management skills to help them with some [00:05:00] funding project they had. And she said, oh, I think my husband, my wife doesn't really know what I do for a living actually.

But she said, I think that's got something to do with, he managed to manage projects, so maybe that's what it is. So I had a call from a friend of a friend. Of ours to see if I'd go along with a chat with 'em. I went along and talked to them and they said, look, we can give you two weeks worth of what was eight days of consultancy work and they'll pay you for it.

And I was running my own business at the time, which was incredibly boring. And I went just as a break. I thought, yeah, okay, I can do that. And that's when I discovered it purely by accident. That was the Colebridge Trust in Solihull, which you one probably know well and a lot of people will know.

And I was just blown away by what they do. It was just amazing. These things, and I'd never heard of it before. I was going, why are you doing this? Why aren't you making any money? And the work I did for them helped them secure some funding to a point, a post as a project officer for a government thing called Change Up at the time, which was labor.

Tony Blair, Gordon Brown's initiative to, develop the infrastructure that supports volunteering and community and social enterprise sectors. [00:06:00] So when they got the funding they said, do you fancy apply? And I went, yeah, actually my, I was getting bored tears. My business actually, it was, I was making money, but it was just, I was, sitting in front of a computer or out visiting, used car dealers.

So I just went, yes, absolutely, I'll do it. And I just fell in love with the whole concept. So I helped them set up an infrastructure organization, a CVS type organization. And then they said, can you have, look at these projects?

And they weren't called social enterprise, they were just projects. So I went and looked to them and some of them were making money, some of them were losing money, and some of them we should never been doing in the first place. So I rationalized the whole lot set up to what I call them businesses.

And then somebody asked me how many social enterprises are there and Soel, and I went, I don't think there's any is there? And I went no, you're one. Am I? Okay, then that means there's two then. ' Oh no there's three. 'cause the Family Care Trust had a landscaping operations.

So I only thought there were three of these things called social enterprise. And I had to Google social enterprise to find out what it was about. And then it made sense and then I started to get a bit more involved and it snowballed from there really. I love that story that [00:07:00] you actually Googled what social enterprise is.

I think everyone's been there where they accidentally fall into it and then they're like, oh. Someone says you're a social enterprise and you, like you did. You then go and look it up and find out Actually, yeah, we do fit into that. Yeah. I. Remember one meeting? It was about a week after I started I was invited along to a meeting by Social Enterprise West Midlands, and I bumped into a lady called Melanie Mills, who you will know.

And she had just joined the social economy as well, but she didn't know it. And both of us stood at the back of the room going, what are they talking about? What's all this thing? And I said I've Googled it, so this is what I could tell you. And I think we both went through the similar journey.

I'm actually just in awe of the people that work in the social economy and what they do and why they do it, and how they do it. They're just so brilliant people. So they're my passion is to support them and use whatever skills I've got. I could not do what they do. I'm fairly certain of that, but if I can support them and help them and make life easier for 'em, then that's what I'll.[00:08:00] 

Yeah. Sounds like a good plan. Another question I've got for you then is what would you say has been the biggest achievement so far since you've been in your current role? I've managed to get two and a half million so far, and I'm hoping to get a bit more in the future, but what I think the biggest.

Difference. I think I've made, there's two things. One is that social economy is now written large into the Combined authorities business plan. I think it's page six or something. Actually. There's a title called Growth, and then the next page is social economy. Historically it would've been mentioned in passing perhaps, or not mentioned at all even, but it's up there as a very specific sector to support. It's also in the paper that's gone to government for devolution along with the everyday sort of lumped in with the everyday economy, but it's still very much part of that. A part of the West Midlands Combined Authority's commitment to double the size of the social economy.

And so to be at that level, and I've actually got people coming to me and asking me the [00:09:00] questions now about can the social economy support this and can we work that and what's your view on things? I think that is probably the biggest one. And I think the other one is the place-based investments that we've made where we've got nine organizations across the, who are.

Working on an action and investment plan for a specific geography. So they become community hubs or socially social enterprise hubs. We're thinking of changing the the title to either social improvement districts or community improvement districts. 'cause it seems to resonate more easily with people and it's languages that important.

And they've been brilliant. They've started to develop some really exciting and ambitious plans, but more importantly, they've brought people together into a forum. So we're reconstructing that social economy infrastructure and networks that used to be quite strong in the West Midlands.

But they've basically been wiped out over the years. So the social economy infrastructure at the moment is Sarah Beaumont working two or three days a week. Should have retired. And that's it. But we're starting to rebuild it through those [00:10:00] place-based initiatives.

If you wanna start a social enterprise. They're bringing people together, building relationships, building trust forming partnerships and starting to deliver at scale, helping the Combined authority understand that sort of investment in place-based investment and also the concept of unrestricted funding they started to see how that really does empower organizations to do things.

'cause you take away all the pressure, not just time but the emotional e energy drain finding core funding. Brings. So it it frees them up to do stuff that's beyond what they can normally do. So I think those are the two things. Sounds amazing. It sounds like that a lot of progress there really in, in terms of getting the right messages and the right people together to change things.

Definitely. I remember my wife telling me I was too assertive at times, and I'm actually finding that's a real benefit and skill in the show I've got at the moment as being assertive. Yeah. Or persistent persistence. I have people I, respond within the community. When I first came into the [00:11:00] West Midlands Combined authority, I was answering questions like, why should we invest in social enterprise?

Why should we do that? I've actually managed to, I think I've managed to change the dialogue, so I now ask questions, why wouldn't you? Why shouldn't you? Why won't you and get them to come up with reasons why they wouldn't invest in the social economy. And it's quite hard to argue against it.

So I'm changing the way that we talk about it. Excellent. So one of the things that you mentioned in passing a few minutes ago was about social value. I think that we need to have a little chat about social value. What's your perspective on social value?

It is got a lot of baggage that term to it. And I was fortunate. I used to work for the same company as Chris White, the guy, the MP for Leamington and Warwick, when he pushed that through as a private members bill. So when I heard that's what he was doing after MG collapsed 'cause that's, we were both worked there.

I took an interest in it and I managed to have a conversation with him about what did he mean? By this. [00:12:00] And basically he was saying about ensuring that we leverage as much impact at a local level. And the story behind it was that it was when a rail contract was awarded to chairman company, when Bombardier in Dudley were capable of doing it.

And as a result of not winning the contract, Bombardier had to lay off hundreds of people in Derby and it devastated the Derby economy 'cause they were a major employer there. And so the social cost of that decision was immense. It outweighed any savings that they made from the chairman contract.

So that was a response to that. And, it's been around for what, dozen years or more. And I don't think it's had any real impact or effect. I know there's a few companies around who are making a lot of money by measuring social value and running programs on that level.

You excluded from that of course, but there are a lot of big companies making money out of it. So what I'm trying to do, I'm part of a thing called the social value Task and Finish Group and the social value task and finish in Bold Capital letter [00:13:00] because we need to get something happening on this.

So what I'm trying to do is change the. Language to let's talk about what are we, social value is an act. And it's a measurement that you can put on things, but that's not what it's about. What we're about is creating impact, leveraging public sector spend in order to create some sort of impact.

To be able to leverage that. Process to secure the resources to do things that we might want to do, but haven't got the resources to do. So using as purchasing power to do that in order to make an impact. So what I'd like to start talking about within procurement is about. Instead of asking what's the social value in this that you're offering, it's asking what social impact can you make?

And the other thing we're looking at is how do we measure social impact? Because if you're a social enterprise, offering additional social value is pretty impossible 'cause you're really doing a hundred percent. So how can you do more than that? So we'd start to look at how we measure not just added social value for.[00:14:00] 

Private companies, but intrinsic value for the social enterprise and measuring them by the same ruler effectively. So your intrinsic value is worth is worth as much as the additional value. Make it again, contractual. 'cause it's not at the moment, the way that the Social Value Act is applied is haphazard.

It's, there's some really good examples, but there's some bad examples and there's examples where it's just ignored completely. Making it contractual because at the moment it's not measured is no monitored. So as part of the program management or contract management, it will be monitored and they'll be asked to report on it and it will be measured as well.

So we will have a value that we can attach to it. And we're working with national Toms and re-jigging some of those things that are so specific for us. It's not a perfect measure by any means, but it is the one that's commonly used. So we might as well just use it

but it's really about making that much more meaningful. And when we go out and ask about social impact, we can be quite specific. We can provide a shopping list for people bid for contracts that says these are the areas we'd like to have some impact in. And that could be [00:15:00] anything from employment, it could be mental health, it could be environmental, it could be anything.

So we'll draw up a shopping list. So depending on the contract that's going out, you can pick a menu of things. I had an interesting conversation with corporate sector because I was invited along to a meeting with corporates to talk about social value. And I quickly realized that's not really what they were interested in.

They were actually interested in impact. They wanted to know where they could make an impact by working together. And social value was just an accounting term to them almost, but they wanted to know where they make an impact. So I said this is what we're thinking of doing with the Social Value Act and procurement.

Expecting them to kick back a little bit when we got into contractual obligations. But quite the opposite. They were actually very supportive of it, and the reason they were supportive of it is that certainly some other people in the room were doing some genuinely good stuff. In terms of their social contribution, their CSR or ESG objectives, but it wasn't getting recognized, it was being ignored.

Nobody asked them about it once they'd secured the contract. So they wanted the recognition and acknowledgement to what they're doing and by [00:16:00] making it a contract obligation was the way of doing that. So that's what we're trying to do, is to turn it around so that it's all about impact and it's not about a box ticking exercise, which I think is probably is the moment.

There are some good examples. I was invited by the housing team at the West Midlands Combined Authority, which. Shows that I've got people listening at least anyway, to help them evaluate some contracts that our bids for big housing development they had in over in Sunderland. I think it, and I was actually really quite impressed by the way that the housing team had approached it in terms of the ITT.

They'd really thought about it and they'd really decided where it was. They wanted social impact and it was all about community space and environment and energy. And the questions and the way that they posed that question was actually really clever. And the stuff they got back from the bidders was really quite impressive.

And it went beyond what you would normally expect to see in a tender. So there are good examples around. It's just, become a bit of a box ticking process and a bit gamified, and people just think they're playing a bit of a game and they can throw anything in there and not be held [00:17:00] accountable for any of it.

I got personal experience of Social Value Act. I'm not gonna say who the company was, but a large company bid for a public contract. In my previous role, the School for Social Entrepreneurs, they asked me to be their social value partner and write something for other bids.

And when they secured the contract, I went, congratulations. Where's the cheque? 'cause that was involved, they would pay me. And suddenly it was, oh, we're not sure about that. Now actually, that things have changed a bit and it was like pulling teeth, getting the money out them. I got there, but that's 'cause I'm just stubborn and determined.

But I know there was one other partner that they had in there who's never seen a penny from them. That's not right. But I also had an example with a. Commercial business company, a private sector company who was bidding for a contract secured it. And the deal was that we would, in order for as a social value partner, they would subcontract at least 10% of this contract to us.

We were an assembly and packing organization at Colebridge Trust at the time, and they were good to the word. 

Probably got more than 10%. The contract was 6 million pounds, so we got 10% of that basically. Nice. Yeah. So it does work. It can [00:18:00] work, but it needs to be done in a way that's more genuine rather than ticking boxes and just.

I think making intrinsic value part of the decision making process and making equal traditional value is a, is not a bad way of helping social enterprises because they already do some amazing stuff. So if they can communicate that within the bid they've got a much better chance of equal, an equal chance, in fact and breaking contracts down at smaller sizes as well.

Yeah. Definitely that's, I think one of the biggest problems with the social value criteria at the moment is that it doesn't value the things that the social enterprises and social economy deliver on a day-to-day basis. It just ignores that it wants something different or on top of that which is a shame really.

Everything I've commissioned so far, there's one big one, which is 1.7 million pounds. I broke it down at six lots and I had to fight procurement telling me to do that because they were going that's just more work, isn't it? We could end up with six suppliers and I'm going, yeah, we could actually, but hey, that's what it's about, and it was in order.

To get over the [00:19:00] financial criteria that goes. 'cause not many organizations would be able to deliver a single contract of 1.7 million pounds. But there were several local organizations who could deliver it if it was broken down into smaller chunks. So we broke it down into six lots.

So we ended up with five suppliers in the end. But that worked. Yeah, definitely. And it's all part of the new need to have targets for spend with VCSEs next year and SMEs later this year. I'm not a big fan of setting targets.

No. As I set a minimum target, and what actually happens is that the minimum becomes the maximum because it's the default for anyone. Yeah. We got minimum target of 10% or we'll make the social value at 10% of the contract. And I think that's probably a mistake. I've just read Manchester City Council's social value policy.

And I think it's brilliant and they're achieving for most contracts, 20% of the weighting in the contract with social value. And then if it happens to have a contribution to net zero, that's another 10%. So it's up to 30%. And that's 'cause they didn't set a target. And I think if you don't set a target, there's a fair chance [00:20:00] that you could go above.

The 10% I did a little exercise with some of the people in the Combined Authority. I said, look, if you could extract something from this contract that would allow you to do something that you couldn't, how would you, what weighting would you give it in the contract?

And they weren't talking about things like 30, 30, 40%. As soon as I mentioned social value, they went down to 10 again, because that's what it was, say a minimum of 10%. Yeah. With the language and understanding of it, it's oh, social value, we'll make that 10%. So I think the language we use is important. Yeah. And I've always said we should have a third for quality, a third for price, and a third for social value in tender. And that way then you've gotta be serious about each aspect of it to win.

Yeah. And I think if we're looking to get best value in the wider sense, a Bombardier example, then if you put social value equal to quality and price, then you will make different decisions and you'll probably make the. Decisions that are better for the overall cost, including the social cost of some of the things that we might do.

Yeah, definitely. That's probably where most [00:21:00] people are going wrong in that they're not thinking in advance about what kind of impact they want to have.

The one thing we wanted to try and do with the Combined authority is actually have a social value post, a strategic post. I think there's been a mistake with social value in some areas where it's been seen as a chu for procurement teams and it's not Procurement are there to manage a process. You need to take a step back from that and actually think from a strategic point of view, what do we wanna do with this tool. Piece of leverage and have somebody think about, oh, we wanted this, and then procurement will manage it. But because it's always been put on procurement as a task, they've gone this is just another job to do. Understandably, they're not going to approach it in the same way that somebody can, who can stand back and say, okay, here are the big issues in the region.

What do we want to do about them and how can we use this device to be able to tackle those things? Then you've got a different focus and a different value. So if we can get somebody in post and help them educate the commissioners rather than the procurement staff, then we can maybe make some changes and differences.

We need a long term [00:22:00] social value plan. Which says these are all the bits that we wanna deliver for the West Midlands or whatever region, and this is how we are going to use the procurement process to do it. I'm liking this a lot. I think there's a lot of promise there in changing, and I know there's a lot of the sector in terms of social enterprises and charities and what you class as the social economy sector have been really disappointed with how social value is played out in that it hasn't really delivered for them.

It hasn't for them. And that's the bit what we need to change. And that's all about what I've found within the Combined authority is actually it. It's been a lot easier to talk to people and convince people of the value. It's just, it's all about building awareness and understanding, and sometimes seen as believing.

So things like the social economy drive are quite important. But there's a huge willingness because I think, we're all human beings at the end of the day, and so are they and some of them get involved in a lot of stuff outside the Combined authority that's charitable or in some way. [00:23:00] So there is a real willingness there for people. So they do want to understand. And I think once you help them to understand what the social economy looks like and how it works and what it does, and what the value it contributes, then they start to think.

This is a really important thing that we should be using. I think there's a real willingness. I think the reason I've being successful in getting it into business plans and things is because people have prepared to do that. Because they have been able to make the connection between this thing called the social economy that they didn't really understand and was all a bit messy.

Into seeing it as a resource that can actually deliver against their goals as well. So there's been some, I'll have some brilliant support from people. My three best friends at the Combined authority is the guy in finance, the guy in procurement, and the guy in legal. 'cause they can get me through the process quicker than anyone else.

Or if they didn't like it, they could stop it. But they'd be great. You need to keep on their good side. Oh no, they've been absolutely brilliant. I've got three people in the Combined Authority who I think they're of, 'cause they really are helping me enormously,

there's quite a few others actually who [00:24:00] will keep asking the question about what about the social economy? Shouldn't be so yeah. And obviously the social value stuff that can be delivered, the social value bit that the social economy could deliver.

That's just one. Slice really, because they've got all the other bits that the Combined Authority does where the social economy could be engaged. The thing that we're working on is building an ecosystem that at the moment's got 10 different elements to it.

So it's things like policy, business support, access to funding, access to finance creating markets, and that's about creating markets with the private sector as well as public sector procurement. The place based developments, building the profile, partnership, working, which is two elements of partnership working, and I think they're both important.

One is about partnerships with the public and private sector, but there's also partnerships within the sector as well. So building those. Partnership working or consortium or whatever you wanna call them, so that they can deliver at scale and they can multiply the impact. There's a thing around education.

I'm [00:25:00] determined before I shuffle off this planet or get fired or something. In Scotland, the Social Enterprise Academy runs a programme in schools. It's using social enterprise to engage kids in doing something. But what the kids are learning is about communication skills and team working skills and project management skills and budgeting and finance skills.

All those really important life skills are transferable and it's really working successfully. 80% of schools in Scotland are using this, program as part of that engagement with our kids. And the feedback's been amazing. So we have education, employment, and skills team with a large budget in the Combined authority.

And I'm determined to get them to buy into this and get the schools. It has actually been done schools in the black country used it and it worked really well, I'm trying to dig this information out about that and sell this into schools, people, and get into schools. Education is also about just educating people about what it is exactly. So me crawling through a database of 9,314 organizations as part of that.[00:26:00] 

'cause if I can paint a picture of exactly what the social economy is like, it will. And they, it will help their understanding and also it will help me understand where we should be targeting things to, because some of the organizations in that 9,314 aren't going to be part of a growth study, but they are part of something else.

There's some vast array of faith organizations. In the West Midlands across all different faiths. They're not social enterprises as such, but they are important. 'cause very often they're bidding gowns for social enterprises. So the activity that they do and they support does actually generate social enterprises like Chelmund's Cross Fish and Chip Shop, and.

that's from the Chelmsley Wood Baptist Church. That's how that started. And helping hands in Solihull, which is from the renewal Christian Centre. They're a really important part. So it's about that understanding of it as well. And then we're looking at sub sector. So we're gonna do a business support program in the new year for organizations working to either create employment or support people into employment and organizations [00:27:00] working specifically in health and social care.

And part of that is about getting employment team to understand how important social enterprise is to creating employment for disadvantaged people and to the NHS, how important social economy is in delivering contracts. And they're watching it and keen to work with anyone who goes through that program as suppliers and health and social.

Sounds brilliant. So as a final question is there anything else that you'd like to share that you're up to? We're gonna be doing something on social finance soon and creating a fund that will. Offer affordable finance packages and blended finance to organizations. I can't tell you much more about that at the moment.

But it will be happening fairly soon. More importantly, the part that we're working on is actually involving putting boots on the ground. So having somebody who's able to go out and explain the social finance organizations who might be considering it, or it might be right for them because it's one of those finances, one of those complex products that you need somebody to [00:28:00] explain it to you.

Go through the pros and cons and work out what's right for you. You can't just. Rely on a website and the good finance tool great as they are, but they're not gonna, they're not going to overcome the lack of confluence or concerns or fears that the organizations have. So we're gonna be working with a provider to do that.

And again, my categorization of 9,314 organizations to find the hundred or so that are probably should be looking at social investment rather than grant funding. And we'll start with them. See if we can lift the use of social investment rather than reliance on grant funding.

Yeah, because the Westins has got quite a low rate of social investment, isn't it? And I think there's a lot of reasons for that. And part of it is the West Midlands social economy is far more diverse than in other parts of the country. Believe mean we have, it's a very diverse region anyway, but there are, cultures and faiths that where borrowing money is a little bit more complicated. Yeah. Than it is elsewhere. And also the fact that the [00:29:00] infrastructure, social enterprise, west Midlands used to do quite a lot of work in promoting finance. Yeah. And Melanie obviously ended up in, in better society capital. But that doesn't exist and that hasn't existed for quite some time.

So there's nobody there. Championing the cause or building any awareness or education around social investments. So if we can get more people on the ground going around, investing people and working with the boards. 'cause it's quite often it's not the social entrepreneur that's problem, it's their boards of trustees who are at risk of ours and, but they need to understand what it's about and.

Help overcome their fears. Yeah, definitely. Charles, it's been lovely talking to you today. You too. If people want to find out more about what you're up to, where's the best place for them to go if they go to the West Midlands Combined Authority website, which is wmca.org.uk, I think. Yeah. And there's a link that says what we do.

If they click on the what we do, link and then scroll down, you'll see an item on social economy and if you [00:30:00] click on that, it goes through, it talks about all the stuff we do about the ecosystem, how they can get involved. So there's social economy forums that happen that BSSEC run on our behalf and round tables as well.

They can get involved in that. The plan that I'm working to was actually developed by people within the social economy. It's not my plan, I'm just there to try and make it actually happen. But it was a ground up plan. The social economy forums and round tables are an important part of what I do.

'cause that's my to-do list. That's where I get my ideas from. That's, you knows a bow. How's a meeting? And I have a to-do list. Yeah. That meeting I've been to them so I know what it's like. They're really, they're important places so people can get involved in that and then they can find all the stuff we're doing, business and place support, finance and contracts and all those sorts of things.

But that's how to do it. Yeah, they can get onto the social economy forums. That's how they can not just find out, but they can actually get involved and shape some of the stuff that we do. Brilliant. Thank you Charles. It's been really good talking to you. Alright. You take care and we'll talk again soon.

Thank you for joining us [00:31:00] on this episode of the Make an Impact podcast. I hope you found today's conversation as inspiring and thought provoking as I did. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with others who want to create positive change. You can connect with me on LinkedIn and learn more about my work at Make an impact cic.co.uk.

Until next time, let's keep making an impact in the world.