Are you ready to redefine your relationship with money and turn it into a powerful tool for building your dreams? Tune in as we sit down with Mitch and Brooke, an inspiring couple who’ve done just that. From traditionally divided roles to what they call a 'money project', they’ve transformed their financial lives and in the process, created a life they love. Their journey is an eye-opener about the importance of financial communication, sharing goals and understanding roles in a relationship.
We also dive into their mentorship experience that helped them kickstart this transformation. From making assumptions to opening up about their dreams and financial goals, their story is both relatable and aspirational. Mitch and Brooke's shared vision became the driving force behind their financial decisions, proving that when coupled with financial alignment, your dreams are not far from reality.
But it doesn’t stop there. The couple’s shift in money management roles and how they started working as a team will have you rethinking your own financial dynamics. Using money mapping and forecasting, they’ve created a life they never wanted to escape from. Can you imagine that? So come join us for a chat that could inspire you to start making sound financial decisions with your partner, and who knows? It just might empower you to transform your own life through financial alignment. Listen now!
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Money mentorship:
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Are you ready to redefine your relationship with money and turn it into a powerful tool for building your dreams? Tune in as we sit down with Mitch and Brooke, an inspiring couple who’ve done just that. From traditionally divided roles to what they call a 'money project', they’ve transformed their financial lives and in the process, created a life they love. Their journey is an eye-opener about the importance of financial communication, sharing goals and understanding roles in a relationship.
We also dive into their mentorship experience that helped them kickstart this transformation. From making assumptions to opening up about their dreams and financial goals, their story is both relatable and aspirational. Mitch and Brooke's shared vision became the driving force behind their financial decisions, proving that when coupled with financial alignment, your dreams are not far from reality.
But it doesn’t stop there. The couple’s shift in money management roles and how they started working as a team will have you rethinking your own financial dynamics. Using money mapping and forecasting, they’ve created a life they never wanted to escape from. Can you imagine that? So come join us for a chat that could inspire you to start making sound financial decisions with your partner, and who knows? It just might empower you to transform your own life through financial alignment. Listen now!
Join the Private Podcast Community
Click here to access free courses and trainings, build new habits, and connect with us and others on the journey to financial self reliance.
Other links 👇
Money mentorship:
Click here to start putting what you've been learning into practice.
Corporate program:
Click here to find out more about our workplace program
Follow us on Instagram:
Click here to see behind the scenes of our business and learn more about personal finance in bite-sized chunks.
Welcome back to the passive income project. It's Terry here and we are wrapping up our couple series and, as promised, we wanted to bring you an epic example of what's possible when a committed couple clicks financially. Now, mitch and Brooke's story is that common it could be almost any given couple story. It's not like things were broken, but it's not like things were really working either. And they are two people who love each other deeply but were living on different planets financially. But despite this, they never had any intention of letting their past dictate their future. And where they've gotten to and what they're now doing is one of the coolest stories yet. In this conversation, they very generously share their experience of making money a project for their relationship, and they even give voice to some of the assumptions that they both had and were making, and these assumptions were keeping them suffering in silos while swatting the exact same thing for years. And I have to say this is one of the most raw and real conversations that I've ever had on this podcast, and if you've ever felt like you just could not figure this out with your partner, then you need to listen to this episode and you need to listen to it together.
Speaker 1:And quick reminder before we jump into the episode. If you have struggled to have good conversations about money with your partner, remember that we have dropped that free conversation planner in our podcast community. So if you scroll down in the episode description, you'll see join the podcast community. Click in there. You're going to be able to get instant access and in less time than it takes you to cook breakfast, you're going to be able to figure out exactly what to say but, more importantly, how to say it. This is the most important part of this conversation how you actually say it and how you actually say you open it up. So jump in there, grab that free resource, put this inspiration into action. Having said that, let's jump straight into the episode. I really hope you enjoy. Brooke and Mitch. Welcome to the show. Hello, mate, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:It's surreal.
Speaker 1:It is a bit surreal and I really appreciate you guys jumping on now because you're not far away from having Bob number two.
Speaker 3:I am few weeks, not exactly sure. Lost count.
Speaker 1:And I know, brooke, you've just come off work as well, so feel like, oh, can I answer all these questions? I've got the baby brain side of things. I think it's all fine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hopefully my mind works properly.
Speaker 2:Come horse to horse. You'll be fine, You'll be more than fine Guys.
Speaker 1:I really am looking forward to this conversation and I talked about this just in the intro there, but we thought about exemplars for couples that have come through and really sort of putting the work done this together got on the same page and it just really got in alignment when it comes to money. Watching you guys go through this and seeing what you're doing right now is really something I wanted to share with more and more people. So thank you again for coming on.
Speaker 2:It's our pleasure. This is a podcast that's transformed our life, and now we're on it. Here we go.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about you guys as a couple first. So how did you meet?
Speaker 3:We met at the local pub Shalia.
Speaker 2:In Cranola. We met at this infamous the Sydney side, isn't it? Yeah, creepy corner. Yeah, to be completely descriptive, yeah, was it love at first sight? Oh, it was for me. No, distinctly remember pushing a few of the boys away and said, right, get lost.
Speaker 1:So I'm guessing you're the one who made the first move. Then, Mitch.
Speaker 2:Yes, correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was your initial impressions, brooke?
Speaker 3:I thought he was a good looking guy. He said nice. I was initially talking to his friend and then Mitch comes over and I thought okay, yeah, here we go. So good first impression.
Speaker 1:Good. And then there's always the first impression and you've got that sort of initial attraction side of things and then you get to connect and you actually get to know each other. What was it that you guys connected over? How did you resonate?
Speaker 3:I had just come back from London and we talked a lot about travelling and Mitch was wanting to go travelling and getting my ideas, which that was my passion at that time. So, yeah, it was an easy conversation around holidays and going over to Europe basically.
Speaker 1:It's adventures, so you guys connected over adventure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've been kind of having them ever since. It's pretty funny that that was actually the first thing that we did bond over, because I think I went to Europe six months after that.
Speaker 1:Were you guys together when you went to Europe.
Speaker 3:Mitch went over without me and I actually went over a little bit towards the second half of his trip and then we did holiday over there for I don't know, maybe two weeks or, and then he came back and I stayed a little longer. So it was kind of a bit of crossover.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was cool, it was nice.
Speaker 1:I think I was like well, I've found the person that I want to spend my life with. It was a pretty early for both of you. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's interesting because we've been together for a long time. When you're asking these questions, we're kind of going pretty far back there.
Speaker 1:And so you said 21,. You guys got together and you were pretty serious from that point of view. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, six months after we had met, maybe started renting together and I got 1036 this week, so that's a long time.
Speaker 1:It is a long time, so you move in together and that's when finances start to get mingled. How did that look for you guys first up, sort of before marriage? How did you do it?
Speaker 2:From memory I was just a shemozel, like there was no teamwork around it. I think obviously we were renting and we kind of assumed traditional roles quite quickly, so Brooke was still studying. We actually got back to study full time at that moment, like it was. It's kind of like I'm going to go do my masters, so you did that, and I think why not just assume this Roll like straight away is provider?
Speaker 3:and it was weird how that played out because it wasn't a family situation that assume those roles, but it was just like life situation when we first started renting I'm pretty sure that was under Mitchell's name and he paid for the rental and we lived kind of separately in terms of finances, so we had separate cards, but we also ended up getting a joint account as well once we started thinking about a mortgage and things like that.
Speaker 1:And this is the point where I think you start to run up against your own assumptions, like things you saw and like what was modeled. If we even take a step back, like if you guys think about your first experiences with money, can you remember?
Speaker 3:Money wasn't really talked about in my family. My mom she very much just took care of it herself, having worked in the bank for quite a while, and my dad was very passive and could go along with what mom would do, but there was quite a long period in time when mom looked after her children and all the money came from dad, obviously. So I never really had that great example. I had an example of one person is in charge of everything and the other person is passive and goes along with it. That was my learnings.
Speaker 2:At least had some in charge. I felt like my parents were just really different people like around me. There are types of fundamentally different like people who are not doing, spend a lot and I just saw mom spending to kind of change her state and then I saw dad's state change as a result of that spending and he got quite upset with that spending and then mom would spend more because probably she was upset, because it was like a cycle of what I'd call unhelpful dysfunction and not really using money in a way that made them happy or kind of help them achieve their goals. It was a source of I would say I just like pressure and just not not harmony, which we know now that it can.
Speaker 1:We talked about those symptoms of dysfunctional harmony in the first episode. Here, trust deficit, conflict aversion, commitment vacuum, burden shifting and outcome apathy do any of those stick out for you where you're like man? I just that one all the time.
Speaker 2:For me, I think it was trust deficit. It was kind of just not really understanding what a drivers were and why they were spending what they were spending and what was motivating their decisions, and kind of just trust deficit in terms of being aligned on what they both actually wanted. Just miss alignment.
Speaker 1:That's kind of the modeling for you guys had that play out. So, brooke, you mentioned you saw this kind of overly active person, then an overly passive person, mitch, you just saw kind of an unhelpful cycle of conflict. How did this play out for you guys as you started to merge your money?
Speaker 3:Well, I kind of took on the passive role Not kind of, I definitely did and I just for quite a while went along with whatever Mitchell wanted. But the problem was he didn't want all that responsibility as well. I just assumed that that would be the way it would be, because I didn't have much of an understanding of money.
Speaker 2:It's interesting for me kind of played out.
Speaker 2:I just bounce between two very different personas, like I had moms kind of spend to change state Posters and then that kind of I've got to protect all this, and I was just bouncing between two unhelpful places, knowing that brook had all these strengths and kind of character traits that I didn't have and I had been unable Unlock her desire to actually come to the table to solve this together and I was like, okay, it's not like a bad thing, like we're making good progress.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't like we didn't have any idea, like I'd spend a lot of time learning about money but I had not at all learned about how to bring our relationship together around money and improving how we collectively saw money. I was like I'm good at making money, this is the bad use of my time. And then I got over it and then we kind of came back to it Listen to people on the pod and it was just like I want us to do this together. I know that things that I'm sure that you are good at and I want you to understand money, maybe not like to the extent that I did, but just to a point where we could have like just really good conversations to make things happen and actually talk about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:Go along with whatever he wanted us to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was missing for you, brooke, in that sense, like was it just the role that you were playing and not realising. Actually, I don't have to play this role.
Speaker 3:I think growing up I've always been I don't spend much money. I guess I kind of went along with this sort of well, if I'm not really spending the money then I don't need to worry too much. You know, like I always philosophy of if you can't completely pay for it then you don't get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you thought that was you playing your role, yeah, whereas Mitch is like no. I want you to actively evolved in our direction, our decisions, like how we're doing. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2:100%. I knew that there was kind of more, more in Brooke in terms of, like, what she actually wanted and expressing that not in a money sense but in a like this is how I want our life to look sense. It was kind of very much me just driving that vision, driving that vision and I was like there's two of us here, how do I actually bring us together in a way to talk about our future so that money has that role and money isn't this thing that is scary or intimidating or not actually connected to what we wanted to achieve in our life?
Speaker 1:That's so interesting because you're both coming from actually really nice places where you're probably too humble in that sense, because you're like, well, if I don't make it, then I shouldn't have much of a say, or if I'm not as making as much, I've got less of a say, so my job is to just spend less. So it's not. You're trying to be unhelpful. And then, mitch, from your point of view, you're like I want us to do it together, but I just can't figure out how to make that happen. What was it like? Kind of sitting in those silos and going like we can't like what's going on here and suck.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was hard because with everything else there's a lot of teamwork between us and with finances there was none. It was just Mitch, you do it all, basically, and I will go along with it. And that's because I was never confident. I never really understood money or, you know, making it work for me or making my money work harder. I just thought I'll just spend what I have, be happy with what I've got, and that's just how I always thought so, but a lot of a mental kind of change in the way that I think about money. So that helped with us become a team in terms of thinking about our money and what we want together and how we can achieve that together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this probably brings us to the point where you guys decided to get engaged with the program. How did you come across the mentorship?
Speaker 2:Obviously, you coached me professionally in a business sense. I must be eight years ago. Yeah, and you popped up on the Apple recommended pods. I saw your head there with Ryan and I was like hang on, I know that guy. He's a jet. He's one of the smallest people I've worked with. If you did a lot for me professionally, what is he popping up in this speed for? And yeah that I just pinched it at a rapid rate.
Speaker 1:I remember getting messages from you that at that time and you're telling me you were listening, I was like that's awesome, one person's listening.
Speaker 2:I think it just got like we listen to a lot, I listen to a lot, and I was kind of like I think this is actually the answer. There was so much value there and so many changes that you know I'd been able to make or information that was reaffirmed. And then I think I played Brooke your episode with Elise and that was a real eye open, I think, for both of us, because I think Brooke at that point realized that this wasn't about us becoming the same person around money. Do you remember that? Yeah, it was called like oh, so you can work well together as a team around money. You can have kind of different goals with your money, but there is like a way to actually manage money well together. Alan, you didn't have to become me or like see money like I did, and I think that was such a game changer.
Speaker 3:We had also tried barefoot investor and that just wasn't individualized. For us it didn't work. It maybe worked for a couple of months, it literally worked at all. And then we started thinking about, okay, how can we actually make this work, because we need to be on the same page. So we were looking around for some kind of guidance.
Speaker 1:really, Some people have said to me the episode with Elise. The thing they point out in that episode is that concept of mental load and this was a realization for me as well is like I learned about mental load, understanding how these gender roles play An important sort of part of what's happening in the home and how we're managing things in the home, and I realized I'm like you are holding a lot of mental load here, but I'm holding a lot of mental load over here. And when it came to money, I was like this is all me, this is all me. So I actually do know what this feels like, because I'm always planning, I'm always thinking ahead, I'm always trying to manage this whole thing and I do actually understand it and I can empathize now. So what we want to do is better spread the mental load and better manage and share it together.
Speaker 1:And that's what a lot of people have said to me about that episode is like, oh, I didn't even realize because of these gender roles that we've kind of fallen into. And I think it happens around when you get serious, when you get married or when kids come along. It's just like male does this, female does this. So it's all that stuff that I think was coming into question. Was that that episode for you, bro?
Speaker 3:That was the main thing for me, because I felt like, even though I wasn't necessarily the one making the decisions financially, I had to do a lot on the side that he wasn't realizing that I was doing in terms of our son or thinking about other people and you know socially what we're kind of doing, whereas Mitch was more on the page of thinking about money, how it can work for us and things like that. So we were almost the opposite. So that podcast really hit home for me because it just spoke to me, whereas Mitch actually learnt from it. You know that maybe, brooke, it doesn't sound like she's doing much and I'm not realizing she's doing much, but there are certain things that she's doing that I'm not realizing she's doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. And then so coming in and coming across and deciding to sort of explore something like this actually getting coaching, getting support, going through a project or a program like this together did you guys have any initial concerns that you sort of thought might hold you back from getting a result, might make it harder?
Speaker 3:The hardest thing was talking about it and me being comfortable to express my own kind of dreams and where I want us to be heading.
Speaker 1:What was hard about that? Just voicing it or getting permission?
Speaker 3:I think we hadn't really spoken too much about wanting really, so I would just go along with the grand plan. It was quite uncomfortable at first talking just about dreams, because for me it was just a dream. Oh yeah, this would be wonderful. But through the process and opening up I kind of realized it's actually achievable if we worked together. So it's just a discussion and it was so new to me to just be so open.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what about you, mitch? Do you have any initial concerns as well?
Speaker 2:I had to get out of myself. Yeah, how? So? I had to come to terms with the fact that consuming another book or punching out another spreadsheet or some other individual pursuit around making more money or developing a skill wasn't the answer. The problem was I didn't know how to bring us together as a team and I had to accept that. I had to come to terms with that. That's what was in the way it was, accepting that. You know I needed help on that process. I could have learned a lot about money, but I'd like to check shit about how to get Brooke interested in it and how to do it properly as a team. Yeah, Like more books won't gonna help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you will more podcast, like I've listened to all the podcasts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every year. I think you're on every year. You're like every single one, yeah.
Speaker 3:We had had a lot of awkward kind of interactions around money, so thinking, okay, we're gonna have to sit down together and force ourselves to talk about it. That was quite daunting. I didn't want to start any ones all.
Speaker 1:And did you find it harder to do that with a third party, or did you find it easier?
Speaker 3:I think I found it easier.
Speaker 1:Well, because we had them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it forced you to go to places where you wouldn't have discussed certain things.
Speaker 2:Sorry. Yes, it was a lot easier and they were productive. Yeah, they didn't end with like, oh this is just too hard, go different directions Really. Yeah, I failed again.
Speaker 1:So it was the first session where you guys are sort of, you know, creating that common cause, doing that life by design together. Was that hard for you guys, or was it? Did you actually find that a little bit more easier than you thought? Did you even know, like, what that was about? Oh it changed everything.
Speaker 2:That was the biggest game-changing experience for us, because what we actually wanted in life was on a page and there was complete clarity. There was none of this, or maybe we should do that, or maybe we work to this, or maybe that would make us happy, or I think you want this, you want this, no, no, no, it was like 90 minutes. There is your definition of what you actually want in life, what is truly going to make you happy, what you don't want to run away from, like what you actually want. Well, right now, that is what you want. That was sick. That changed the game for us.
Speaker 3:What we saw in that as well is that we were very aligned with certain things. Mitch would just start talking and bringing up ideas and then I Strangely somehow had very similar ideas and it was kind of a coming together of Realistic dreams, in a way. And it was a really great way to start the whole process because we knew from that when we were going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm gonna come to some of these dreams here in a second, because I've actually got enough in front of me and we'll talk about what you guys are actually doing, which is gonna be cool to talk about. But, mitch, talk me through this comment that you made. I'm seeing it working for fuckwits. Control my destiny.
Speaker 2:So I've been incredibly lucky my career. I've worked with some of the best leaders in the country and I feel like I've also worked with some of the worst. And the difference is the roof it and I just got to a point in my life where I was like fuck this, I just money can't be why I say yes to something anymore. Like fuck that I seriously could not handle it anymore. It was like I need to get my life in a position where I'm just saying yes everything they want to do and no to things that I don't. Yeah, and I Didn't have my life in that state, was I, was that's, that's I'm moving away from that.
Speaker 2:I want to work with people that I love working with or problems that I care about, contributing to the world in a positive. Yeah, it was pretty simple, but, um, yeah, the difference between great leaders and bad is pretty large. Yeah, as you well know, I do know that and brook.
Speaker 1:Yours was sick of feeling like every day feels the same and you want your efforts to count for something. Do you remember saying that?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:This is kind of an interesting part of the process where you sort of go what's this really about? Where's this coming from, you know, because you sort of you do have to have we've talked about it, but I think I'm keep moving away from the thing I'm moving towards and I don't know. I'd be keen to hear from your perspective, but for me, this is where you get all the drive you need when you actually do come to these statements and you say that's the thing I want to change and that's where we're going and that's what change would look like. The reason I bring up those two statements, guys, is because I feel like this is where couples get fantastic alignment and understanding as well, because you get a window into someone else's psyche. You're like I don't even know. You're feeling like that. I had no idea that that was a thing for you, and now that I know that it is, now we can actually work towards fixing that for you. And the shared vision, the shared values, what we've created together it becomes that sort of vehicle, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the shared vision, what that allows you to actually achieve and do and how to operate. It's changes, emily, I don't know.
Speaker 3:It just meant that there was a purpose to us learning moral me in particular, educating myself, because I knew that there was a reason behind doing it. I don't want to just keep doing the same thing over and over and saying, okay, this doesn't work or this is creating Friction between us. Let's just have a goal and that will motivate me along the journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Mitch, you were talking about looking backwards about some of the games you guys have made along the way. What are the big things that stood out for you guys? The big kind of wins.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're finally giving ourself permission to pursue our greatest, our travel endeavor, which is, you know, to do a drive up around this beautiful continent and Work for people that I do love on projects that I do love, in a way that is, on my terms, the best.
Speaker 1:We pick up our new caravan on Friday and I didn't even know you already got it to get it, did you?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah. We chose to do what our wealthy people do mate we value, to set up. That's going to save us time, but it isn't absurdly expensive. So that's a result, and we're off as soon as this baby is three months old and we're out of what we call the kind of baby tornado or kind of danger zone in terms of everything that's attached to it, we're at it and I can't wait. It's just gonna be the greatest experience ever. We love chubbier and Knowing that that was possible for us and putting a plane in place so that life didn't fall apart around this. When we actually did that, and realizing how far we'd come and where we got to and where our financial position actually was and Remove all of those feeful hoarder kind of tendencies and just where well you can do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah like you know how much life costs now and you understand what you're building towards and, most importantly, you're building a life that you never, ever want to escape, that you love. Well, if you're building a life that you love, that you never, ever want to escape, the money has a very clear purpose and Wouldn't you want that? You're not delaying what you actually want. It's like bring that forward, make that happen now, because that's what we're only spoke for. It was why, kind of when I went through the fire piece and I could just felt like shit, because I want to use my money in ways that bring us happiness, and I was like, okay, mom's exuberant spend, I stopped spending, stopped spending, but I Wanted to spend on things that actually brought us happiness, but I didn't have a framework by which to understand that. It was kind of like I was trapped in this. Okay, well, I've seen people spend money to make them happy, but I also know that if I just spend money, that's bad. Well, I just felt guilty about like everything, like I just was stuck, totally stuck.
Speaker 2:Well, when rent gets to a certain amount, you know from the investors then we can go. Where we've got enough Saved as a cash cushion, then we can go when our careers at a certain point. If this whole experiment doesn't work, well then we'll go because we've got this safety net. What if you just did it? What if actually just did it? So it's. We've had to work through a lot, and the money mapping process has really just allowed us to own out shit and Realize how much was just made up, that was getting in the way, and how much Understanding our financials could empower us to actually get up.
Speaker 2:Yeah and have the cause that we're not crazy, we are adventurous. That's what whites us up, that's what makes us really happy, and you can still be good with money and enjoy your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's such a good through line, right? You guys talked about when you first met what you connected over, and it was adventure and I'm looking at your canvas in front of me and it was meaningful work, more time with family and a more adventure, specifically this trip, and it's kind of cool that you've made that happen in the way that works for you, in a way that's not stressing you out, a way that hopefully you kind of look back on and you go. I really will never regret doing that, because if we didn't do it would have been worse.
Speaker 2:What we already know. That's true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we do, and a lot of our the goals, as you say have helped us come to this decision a lot faster than we would have done in the past.
Speaker 1:Oh, tony, how do you reckon it would have played out like let's do an alternate universe when you kind of don't move through this project together. You don't have that clarity, you don't build the practices of mapping, the forecasting stuff? Number one would it have happened? And if it was getting to happen, how would it have happened?
Speaker 3:one major thing that we realized was that we need to have an income as well. We can't just go when not to be bringing in money. So something that Mitch has done along the way is tried to find multiple streams in work that he's happy in and I've seen him Happy in, and he's able to continue those while we're traveling. So that was one major thing. Another thing was just getting out of this mindset of doing what everyone else does. You know, sometimes I tell people that we're going traveling when once the babies about three months old and people just think I'm Crazy. But the thing is like what's the difference? I'm going to be walking the baby in a different state or beautiful right for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Instead of being at home, you know that's a great point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we get what we want and we build our happiness through doing things in an unconventional way, but it suits us and we realize that it suits us through, you know, that initial talk and constant money mapping and those goals of okay, we do need to have a bit of money when we come back for example, we do need to have this amount for petrol and it has helped us be confident and know what's needed to be able to do it and achieve it.
Speaker 2:What would be different? I'd be doing a job that I hate, chasing one marker of progress, income only, and not adjusting the school board for everything else that I now have in my life that I value. I would have died 15 to 20 years earlier, which is interesting, because I never did more money to fund all that extra life that I've created here.
Speaker 2:But I think that's a good problem to have essentially have been working myself to an early death and, ultimately, a place where I had to have all these things in place, to give myself permission, or to feel like I had permission, to just pursue the life that I wanted.
Speaker 2:How bizarre is that they were mostly made up Like we didn't need to build the due collectors before we went, we didn't need to have passive income at a certain level before we went. We just needed to commit and Then we'll put the logic, the real logic, underneath it, not someone else's definition of what we'd have to have done to feel safe or secure or just to back out ventures. Spirit and Understand that we had a system that said, yeah, you will be okay, this is how much life costs, this is what it looks like and this is the objectives that you're contributing towards in terms of your life happiness, but also like the life that we want for coop and and the things that will help us long term. Like it's not. We do have to choose long term. Over Now we were able to work out how do we do?
Speaker 1:boss. Yeah, because this is what's interesting. This is where I get the feeling you guys would have done this anyway, but the conditions you would have done it under would be completely different. So, mitch, you would have just pushed and pushed and pushed into a point where you're like I've completely had enough. You just throw up your hands, spend a shit ton of money, do the exuberant shopper thing, do the trip it, feel horrible all the way through, feel like you're making a mistake and not be actually even in a position to enjoy it. Agree, disagree.
Speaker 3:Oh, totally, yeah, green here very well said we just would have spent all of our money and just done it and, you know, had a great time, but then feel guilty about that decision in a way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we wouldn't have enjoyed it anywhere near as much and it would have happened far later. And, bless me, honest, we're not done a lot of done it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with our son's age and schooling, we may not have done it in the future but so, either way, if you didn't do it, it would be a regret.
Speaker 1:if you would have done it, it would be a regret.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly yeah now we get to the point in this beautiful state of this is exactly where we're meant to be and we're actually Building the exact loss that we just love Coming into this, because this is what's brewing about the way you guys have done this is you are super engaged in this now as a couple, and you mentioned those practices and getting through understanding, through the mapping, through the forecasting, getting across this stuff to make these decisions, brooke, from your perspective, feeling like you didn't have any to contribute before how was that coming into that? And then playing more of a role as a peer?
Speaker 3:It is exciting and it is empowering. We kind of take turns in money mapping but the other person's always there and contributing, and that's been a good way to force me into it. So I'll be the one typing or I'll be the one doing things that I would never have done in the past.
Speaker 1:And has that helped from a confidence point of view where you're like I say, something happened to Mitch, you would be hopefully more confident to go. Ok, I know what to do. I know what to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. I wouldn't have felt confident at all in the past, whereas now I do feel like I have the tools to be able to do it on my own if I wanted to or needed to. But yeah, it's definitely brought us together. We do work as a team and we have changed a few things here and there to suit us.
Speaker 2:What about that moment? Where you looked at me and you're like, oh my gosh, that money has to be invested.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is the education side of it, wasn't it? This was the thing I think. You rang me, Mitch, and said that there's that specific moment. Everything has been for that.
Speaker 2:Everything was like the changing over our shares to actually joint names. That was epic. But Brooke looking at me and just being like like the whole world view changed. That can't be there. That is a mistake. I was like, oh, I know.
Speaker 3:I'm so happy.
Speaker 2:This moment is happening.
Speaker 1:It was awesome, Just for context, for the list. So this was big lump sum of cash that you guys probably hadn't decided on something with. It's just sitting there and, Mitch, you know, intellectually we need to be doing something with it, Brooke not so sure. And then, Brooke, you coming to the realisation we need to be doing something. Is that right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's game changer, but it wasn't so much, it had to be X, it was okay. The investment piece is now very tangible for us both, like we understand collectively what needs to be done, but also we have this bigger vision for what that was for. So the trip and investing in ourselves to actually make the transition to work on our terms, we got again two things. For the chiropractor one, we were able to make the investments in ourself, but also in our future, and be fully aligned on that.
Speaker 3:I as well, wouldn't have had the understanding that that amount of money is not going to be worth that much in you know a few years time really, and that you don't need to have just money in the bank to make you feel secure. You can use that money to then make more money, which became so clear to me in that moment. A lot of quick. Let's decide what we're doing. It's a waste for it to just be there, whereas it must have really just saved and saved and saved, and I would have thought that was the right thing to do, but it was this change in my understanding of and no, like this isn't working for us, and it worked a lot, lot better. So let's work out what we're doing with it. And, yeah, that was a huge change in the way I think.
Speaker 1:That's a good example of like a big decision you guys sort of came together on. But, like Mitch you mentioned before, you wanted to engage Brooke Moore because she was good at things that you saw as gaps of yours. How have you seen that shift in terms of the way you guys are managing money on a monthly basis now, a lot more making use of each other's strengths?
Speaker 2:So obviously I'm like quick to say let's contribute to these goals and let's spend this money. But then it's like, okay, he's the other things that are important, but let's not spend too much at the butcher's Mitch. We know you love your grasshopper meat, but there's limits on that. Just leveraging each other's strengths really, it's kind of we operate as a team, so it's what matters, what doesn't, what's the trade offs? How do we actually get more of what we want by just giving up on things that don't actually matter? We're not perfect by any stretch, like we still have total battles around coffee, you know. But the big rocks, like that mental load of understanding where the money is going and how that works, what it's for and what it's doing for us and, most importantly, like just being grateful for what we actually have. In that period where we are mapping, it's changes so much you feel so much better about the money.
Speaker 1:That point you just made is super underrated. And I do say to people, like, when you are having to sit down and acknowledge what you have, it means your brain is not focused on what you don't have, and when you're deciding on what you want it to do for you, it means you're appreciating what it's doing for you, because your brain is like a shoot and if you ask it a certain question, it'll just go down a certain alleyway and it'll take you to a very different, very different, different place, and that place that it takes you can make you feel good, can make you feel bad. So it's just that practice. That's the same thing for me, because every month you have to acknowledge there's money again, money's coming in again. It starts to sort of chip away at the idea that money is a scarce thing, that's hard to come by, because you're like every month money's coming in, there it is again, and now we're going to do something else with it, whereas I think when you just automate everything, it's just so far away from you you don't actually think about what's going on, right, don't even think about it.
Speaker 1:Like for me, I used to hate paying a power bill and now I think about it and I'm like this much money is going to see power, but that power is hitting my family to keep my family warm through the winter and that's what it's doing for me. Do I want to make that decision? Of course I do, whereas all I was doing was doing what my dad did, which was whinge bitch, and mine, when I saw a bill come in, because I'm like oh, here it is again. No, money's just going out everywhere, because I'm not on top of my money and I don't actually understand that. Yes, it's this much of a pie that's actually this big, and the rest of that pie is actually doing some pretty good stuff. So I can put it into perspective Is that kind of what you're getting at?
Speaker 2:Yeah, even when income is variable, and just recognizing that, okay, this month, like, the money that is coming in is smaller, but you've got the cash cushion and you know that it's just a blip.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Learning process isn't linear, like we're investing heavily in ourself in a transition. So if we were trying to do this without a money mapping process and without having real granularity on exactly where the money is at and exactly what it's doing for us and gratitude for all that it's given us to this point, we would just be afraid to that. We just wouldn't be doing what we're doing. We have literally just feel like, well, we have to just revert to the status quo. We would have gone back to archetypes and reacting, yeah, instead of actually stepping into that place of creating a life that we never, ever want to escape from.
Speaker 1:It's actually another really good point you raise. I think a lot of people think if my income's not predictable, then I can't plan. And I'm like I always say to people if it's not predictable, you have more of a need to plan. It's actually more important, and they think but that's not possible. And it's usually, I think, because it's usually what people are learning is not necessarily a plan, it's a prescription.
Speaker 1:It's like oh, this much is coming in, put this much over there Doesn't account for change, doesn't account for those fluctuations. And so I mean I've just got someone emailing this morning and they're like we really want to get going, but we're just not sure because we've got a variable income. And I'm like I must hear this a couple of times a month where I'm like, oh man, financial education has got a lot to answer for this assumption, because I think so many people go when I've got a predictable income, then I will get on top of my money. And really what you need to do is say I'll get on top of my money because I have a fluctuating income. That is the way to think about it, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Well, absolutely. And at the end of the day, if you can get clarity on your non-flexuating expenses and you have more confidence to pursue variable income and, at the end of the day, a consistent paycheck is probably the greatest killer of our creativity. Just be careful what you wish for.
Speaker 1:It's true. Who says that Nassim Talib is like? It numbs you and it sort of removes you from the volatility that is always there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always there.
Speaker 1:And so that slows your learning, it dampens your ability to increase your capacity, your skill. You don't have that healthy amount of pressure that makes you perform.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing wrong with that. For us, it's always been about the challenge. The challenge is fun, and the minute you embrace that or stop betting on yourself, I think you lose. And this is how it allowed us to truly bet on ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we were talking about this before, but we're so grateful to have you as part of what we're doing now Coaching and helping folks through, because you've seen kind of all sides of this as well, so it's cool to be able to see this happen as it's happening and see it from the inside as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's pretty happening, because what you're saying is you're whole lot happier, you're whole lot healthier and you're in your happy place, like you're doing something that's truly inspiring.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:An unhelpful paradigm at home and I was like we can change this. This is totally changeable. We just need more people to actually understand what's on the other side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this has been really, really great conversation, guys. I love it. I've got two more questions for you. Advice for couples who are sort of struggling to get on the same page. They're connected in all areas of their life, but when it comes to money it feels like they're kind of on different wavelengths.
Speaker 2:You are not alone, because, while that's taught you how to do this, it's completely normal and predictable that, without a blueprint or a path to help you get on the same page, that you would be on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.
Speaker 1:I would say that it's exceptional, I think, that two people come together and they go. I see it exactly the way you see it and that's exactly what I would do. That is the completely exactly the same shape, like it's so rare. But you know, what's interesting is that I think everybody holds those people up as the exemplar, when in actual fact it just worked out for them Like they got very little to teach. They got very little to teach. In that sense, for me it's like you want to know what it's like to go through the uncomfortable part to figure it out. Anyway, you know that's going to be coming from someone completely different. So, again, financial education can be really misleading in that sense because the people who just like it, clicked for straight away, they go. You just do this and they make the assumption that everyone's like them and in actual fact I think most people love each other. But when you come together with money, like we've all got such different ideas at start and that is the norm.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's totally the wrong. I think the biggest fear that kind of I've seen is people thinking that they can't load this stuff. And I think we've proved that you can because we will know where. As a team around money, we will know where, and I was nowhere when I first picked up a push bar.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I couldn't ride it. It was really difficult. I stacked it, it was. I had to just keep trying, but I had to commit, I had to actually go. Yeah, I do want to learn that. So I think it would be for me it's like understand why you want to learn it, understand what's possible they're getting in the way and kind of reconcile that because, like I said, off the top, for me it was my ego, but for everyone there's something in the way. If it's not working how you want it to, you can solve that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's putting success before status right, because essentially, that's what you chose was. I'm going to put success, our success, before my sense of status. That's the choice. Yeah, is there anything you guys want to leave the audience with before we wrap this up?
Speaker 2:If you've tried to get money working for you on the home front and it's not happening how you think it can, there is a reason for that and you can fix it and it will be fun to fix it. On the other side is an unrecognizable life and an unrecognizable relationship and, like for us, obviously we've, you know, got Koopa on a kid on the way. I know fundamentally that the life he's going to live as a result of what we've achieved together in approaching this as a project will be unrecognizable to what I had and I don't really think there's a quite a greater impact than I can have on the world and make sure what he sees modeled financially is really strong and positive and empowering and he can see how people come together around their goals and simply use money to actually get after the life of them all.
Speaker 1:Love that. Did you have something, brooke?
Speaker 3:Don't be scared to feel uncomfortable. Don't be scared to educate yourself. The mentoring we've had has really been so beneficial for our relationship and for me individually as well. It's just been easy to understand and it's something that I do believe that we will carry through life. It's not something that we'll just learn and then let go of and hopefully we do pass that down to our sons and so that they can be confident and work in a really effective kind of loving relationship and not be fearful of money or expected to make all the money and make all the money decisions on their own. I'm just hoping that we can be a good example for that for our children. And yeah, it has been a really big game changer for our relationship in terms of the teamwork and just my own understanding of what we need to be doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what have you got to lose? Like there's only upside, I think the point you made then. Brooke is so powerful, it's changed every decision we make for it.
Speaker 3:What I've lost most is the individualistic kind of scaffolding that it's given us, so every month has been different, but we've been able to account for that and that just shows that it's made for us in our lives, which is what I've really loved, not just creating buckets of money, which just doesn't work, whereas it's about us and our life and our happiness and it's just been fantastic really.
Speaker 1:It's a credit to the way you guys have come into this and really dedicated yourselves to it, lent into that discomfort, supported each other all the way through. I just love to see it and I think this conversation is going to I know it's going to hit some people. There's been a conversation recently in the podcast community. There's a guy in there who's been talking about the struggles that he's been having with his partner and Hugh. If you are listening, I would highly encourage you to try to get your partner to listen to this episode and just have a conversation about what's possible, because it is worth it and you can do it. You just need to believe that you can, and these guys are a living, breathing example. So, guys, thank you so much for coming on the show, really really appreciate it and catch up with you soon.
Speaker 2:Right back out. Mate, thanks for having us and, more importantly, thank you for what you've actually done for our loss. You and Lauren have changed our loss in ways that we're so thankful for, and it means the world to us.
Speaker 1:That's my pleasure, my pleasure.