#92 What if Your Wants Are THE KEY That Unlocks Your Wealth?

What if your deepest desires are the key to unlocking unparalleled wealth and fulfillment? We're not talking about the fleeting whims or material possessions, but those profound wants that drive you, shape you, and unleash your true potential. In this episode, we're turning the tables on conventional wisdom and igniting a discourse about the power of wants and desires in propelling personal growth, actualization, and wealth creation. 

Challenging beliefs and expanding perspectives, we probe into how the pursuit of our wants can spark creative energy and lead to tangible results. We differentiate between wealth and money, urging you to carve out a life not merely rich in money but in experiences and achievements. We touch upon the concept of memetic desire and the need to separate wants that are internally driven from those influenced by external factors. It's about aligning your desires with your best self and not being swayed by societal norms or judgments.

Finally, we underscore the power of declaring your wants and breaking free from the fear that keeps you tethered. Through inspiring anecdotes, we highlight how ignoring the judgment of others can lead you to 'blowout success'. It's about finding your leverage, spending time on things that are meaningful, and embracing the journey of actualisation. By the end of this episode, you wouldn't just comprehend what living a wealthy life entails, but also be charged up to embark on your self-actualization odyssey. It's time to declare your wants, chase your desires, and unlock a life brimming with wealth in its truest sense.

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Transcript

Ryan: 0:30

Hey guys, welcome back to the passive income project. Fuck Terry, we're about to dig into a pretty loose idea here aren't we, we are mate.

Terry: 0:38

I reckon this is the most liberating idea that no one in personal finance wants to talk about, wants to discuss, or if they do, they don't quite get it. They act like needs are way important than wants. Just focus on your needs. But here's the big thing what if your wants are the key to your wealth? That's the idea.

Ryan: 0:55

Yeah, and we've done a little bit of work in Stoic Philosophy. It's definitely going against some of the things that we probably thought about a lot and you probably are thinking what the fuck? And I think that's a good thing, because we need to challenge convention if we are to achieve unconventional results and ultimately that's what we want to do, right? Absolutely.

Terry: 1:12

And look, if you felt like you've plateaued with your personal finance journey, you're maybe not enjoying the process, You're feeling like you're less than, you're comparing yourself to other people unfavorably and you just feel like you're living poor to one day get rich. I reckon this episode is 100% for you. Do you want to talk about what we're going to cover? Mate For sure.

Ryan: 1:33

What we want to dig into. For a start, why your wants are actually the key to living a wealthy life. We're going to unpack that. Then we're going to look at the difference between wealth and money, because there is a big difference between the two and often they get conflated with each other. And then we're going to dig into the sequence of how wealth is created, where that comes from. And then, finally, we're going to look at three steps to use your wants to supercharge your success. This app will be rocket fuel, you know, if you do internalize the ideas that we're going to talk about here, because we know that it's had a big impact on us and what's used up. It's been something that's fueled a lot of the things we've built and the things we've created. As a result of it, it will absolutely exaleraate your personal growth and progress and give you a renewed sense of focus and purpose and, I think, release you from one of the biggest limiting beliefs about money. Do you agree?

Terry: 2:21

Yeah, that last point release you from one of the biggest limiting beliefs about money. I truly believe that it's a frame of reference. Problem money, it's the way that you're looking at the world. That is the problem. Most of the time. It's not whether you're smart enough, it's not whether you're skilled enough, it's not whether you've got the intelligence or the connections or anything like that. It's actually the way we're looking at the world. And it's, like you know, we're driving in the rain, and how well do windscreen wipers work? Do they work really well so you can see actually what's in front of you, or is your screen just full of shit, Just rain pouring down on you, and you just kind of make trying to make it kind of work? So the challenge for us really is that you've got to be able to loosen your grip on what you think is real, what you think is true, what you think you've known, in order to be able to take on something else and see it from a different perspective, to expand your frame of reference.

Terry: 3:08

I always find myself talking about that parable from Zen Buddhism where you've got the Japanese Zen master and the academic comes and he's sort of saying, hey, I want to learn everything I possibly can from you. And so he sits down and the Japanese and master starts pouring that cup of tea. And he's pouring, and he's pouring, and he's pouring and the tea starts filling over the cup and the guy says the academic. He goes what are you doing? What are you doing? The cup's too full. The cup's too full, stop pouring. And he's like that's right, you're a lot like this cup. You need to be an empty cup if I am to fill it up.

Terry: 3:36

And so we've got to be open, we've got to allow ourselves to fill ourselves up with different ideas, and this one is one of those ones where, the first time you hear it, I've spoken this to people and we've written about this, and it's actually interesting because people are really aggressive and they resist it. They've even been attacked, firstly, and judged for actually saying this, because it's completely counterculture, it's completely counterintuitive and it's not at all what we grew up being told or taught. Now, challenge to you is sit with this episode and actually consider how it could be correct before you doubt it, before you judge it and before you kind of think about how it's wrong, because where this knowledge comes from is very, very believable. The guy that would pull this insight from. There's probably been very few people on earth who have helped as many people amass money and live a life of wealth, so I think it's really worth considering.

Ryan: 4:26

Yeah, and I'd say that it's absolutely been the same for us, right? It's like whenever you're trying to challenge something you already know it makes you feel a little bit uncomfortable. But what I have found personally is when you do open yourself up to this one and you embrace your wants, it's almost like you've been trying to hide a part of you, and now it's always liberating to acknowledge them, to call them out, and to the excitement that can come with actually going after the things you want as well. And so knowing what we said before around it becoming rocket fuel at absolutely is because when you do embrace it and you say that's what I want, I'm willing to go after it, then who you become in the process of that pursuit is really powerful. And so let's explore how well some wants are linked.

Terry: 5:09

Wealth is having more of what you value, and that means, basically, wealth is what you want. So what is it that you want? What is it that you really care about? Money is just a mechanism for getting what you want, but it's also a measure of how much people value what you're doing and how much you value what other people are doing for you.

Terry: 5:28

If you think about one, one is the tool, the other is the target, and so many of us get so fixated on the tool and forget about the target. And this is a big, big thing, right? Because if you are just focusing on the money, it's not inherently by itself motivating, it's just a tool. It's like you're like look at my Makita, it's awesome, this Makita, it's so good, it's so good. Instead of actually really using it and going, well, I'm going to use that to sort of create this hole in the wall, hang that picture, make this room the way I want it. You actually start with the want, so you start with wanting to change your space and then you figure out how to use the tool to make it happen. So that sequence, that process, has always been the same, and it starts with something you want and then you start looking outward from yourself to be able to figure out how I actually arrange my sort of situation to make it happen. And in that process of arranging the situation to make it happen, inevitably what you have to do is get outside of your own self and actually start to think what are other people need from me so I can get that? Because you can't have what you want until you give somebody else what they want. So the whole thing is I have this sequence, I have this want. Now what do I need to give others to be able to get that? And that process there is super creative, it's very creative and we talked about, like, how this has worked throughout the whole of human history.

Terry: 6:44

You can think about the example of the wheel. You've got the Sumerians and ancient Mesopotamia. We want to haul food with less energy and effort, right, so then they invent the wheel and that gets used for all these different commercial purposes and they become one of the richest, wealthiest nations on earth because of it. So the first one was internal, then the focus was an external and because of that, the slice that you get, the value comes back to you and you can follow that as a through line. You can keep following that first invention and you can just keep looking at once. So then you had Carl Benz, who's in Germany. He's like I don't want to ride a bike anymore, I want to create a motor vehicle. So I'm going to take this internal combustion engine and figure out how to put it on four wheels, and so he is the first guy to invent the automobile. And then he actually creates a business and opportunities for the wealthy and becomes wealthy himself in the process.

Terry: 7:33

Then you've got Henry Ford, who's like well, I don't want cars just to just be for the rich people, I want to create cars for everybody. And why is that? Because I want to get really, really wealthy, right, I want to be a great man, I want to change the way this world looks. So I want to invent this whole process, this whole production line, to be able to mass produce cars, to be able to democratize cars, to make them cheap enough for everybody. And because I want people to buy them, I'm going to give my people two days off.

Terry: 8:01

Not many people know this, but Henry Ford was the guy that gave us the two day weekend. And the reason he gave us the two day weekend was because he said well if we gave people two days every weekend that have more need to want to use a car to take it places, to go and see things. And so the first thing he did was create this car, make it cheap enough for everybody and then give everybody a two day weekend. So think about that for a second. I want to be a great man and I want to change the way this whole world looks, and I want to change the way this whole world works. So I'm going to go and give people this new thing, which is a car. I'm going to make that more accessible to everybody, and then I'm going to give them two days a weekend to actually make that worthwhile.

Ryan: 8:36

Ultimately, all the successful people that you've ever observed, you know you can call out the big, obvious ones, the Elon Musk's of the world that his want is to save our species from itself. Basically, he wants to be the one that turns us into a multi-planetary species, and so, because of that, he figures out how to electrify the world, electric cars and solves this huge sustainability problem that we have in the world and, you know, creates less of a reliance on oil ultimately. And so you look at that and go. If he didn't want that and to be the one no doubt there's a part of it which is to be the one that did it Would he have created all that value for people and created a better way of serving society? And then you think about lots of other successful people. You think about Sarah Blakely. She founded Spanx and I'm sure more of the female audience will know of this one, but she wanted to have a better undergarment. She wanted to have something that didn't itch and was a pleasure to wear, and because of that she was able to create something and build a billion dollar brand by designing Spanx. You know Oprah is another obvious one. She wanted to be the most powerful woman in the world and to know that she had more power, ultimately, than the men in her life, and so because of that, she built the Oprah empire, by empowering women all over the world and by creating a platform that allowed her to share stories, to challenge people in lots of different ways.

Ryan: 9:59

And if you think about some of the people in your life, there's a good chance. They've had a pretty strong want for something, for something different to what they had or to what they were seeing around them, and because of that, they pursued something that others weren't, and so it was like you said. It's this creative energy that comes from saying that's what I want, that's what I want to create, that's what I want to see when I wake up in the morning and go about the day, and because of that, they find ways to create more for other people, and I know we've probably seen this manifest in our life as well. We've been like I want to have more choice, I want to be able to go to the beach during the day for a couple of hours when the sun comes out, or want to be able to travel when we want to, and because of that we're like oh, let's figure out a way to serve people in a way that makes all that possible, and I like to think that's a really, really positive thing for society, right?

Terry: 10:51

Yeah, I mean, just come back again, season one, episode one, for me, stepping into that room and realizing that other people making decisions about the direction of my life. I had a very strong want in that moment and it was I want to be self determined and I don't have the skills right now to make that happen. So I want to go after it and find those skills. I'm going to read everything. I want to accumulate all this knowledge and figure this whole part out and then catching up with you, figuring out how to connect that to the investing thing, figuring out how behavior and money go together, how big things can be accomplished. We've kind of merged these two different worlds. We've created this whole different model which has essentially given us all those things. Everything we've been doing for the last five years has been doing that to basically give you more of what you want. I had a conversation yesterday with a guy, joel, who's been listening to our podcast and he said he's made some massive decisions off the back of just like listening to what we've been doing. He said I was going in this direction and I realized that this is, this was what it was going to cost me in the long run. We sat down, we've completely changed the whole trajectory of the way we're doing things and I said, man, like that, I love hearing those stories because it just lights me up, right.

Terry: 11:53

But it all started from my want. It all started from that first want and then I was like, well, what do I need to do to be able to figure out how to get what I want? Well, I need to give people more of what they want. What do people want from me? Well, turns out, the thing that sticks out to me about this podcast is it's like the way you guys explain the concepts, the way you kind of break it down, the way you kind of really think your way through it, and we spend a lot of time to be able to do that and make that really accessible knowledge. In a sense, what we've tried to do is what Henry Ford did with the car right Want to take this specialized knowledge that's locked up in the hands of the few, and we want to democratize that and make it accessible to everybody so anybody can use it. And it's actually in the process of doing that that we've gotten what we've wanted. Along the way. It's always the way.

Ryan: 12:37

Yeah, and like I know for me you know what I was working for somebody else in the business that I was working for a big part for me was just I just want to spend my time working on stuff that I enjoy. Yeah, I felt like there was so much dead time throughout the day where I was just like I'm doing this just because I need to. I'm doing it because I have to show up. Think about this contrast of, yeah, I'll probably work 80 hours a week now, which most people would just be like that's silly, like why would you do that with your life? But there is no doubt in my mind that I would choose working 80 hours a week on things that I like doing, then working 37 and a half hours a week on things that I don't. And there's a big contrast between those two.

Ryan: 13:16

And the big thing is like you go, when you do the things you want to do, build the things you want to build, get after the life you want to create just because you want it. All of a sudden you create so much more energy around those things. You know creative energy, for sure, but even just like energy in general, like when you're doing stuff that you want to be doing, like you're following your curiosity, you're intrigued about what you're learning and how you can take what you're learning and share that with other people, and you want to share it with as many people as you want to. Because of that, then, over time, if you can increase the amount of energy you have in what you're doing, you will create more, you will do more, you will give more to other people and because of that, you will receive more.

Ryan: 13:55

And so how much of my week did I feel low energy, where things were kind of sucking energy out of me versus the things I was doing, which was giving me more energy, more fuel, to do the next things I know. For me, there was a period there where there was a lot more sucking energy time on things that I hated doing, whereas now it's, you know, reshaping, creating the environment where you spend 80, 90% of your time on things that give you a lot of energy Still work, but it gives you energy to do the other things. And I think ties in quite well with this, don't you think we?

Terry: 14:25

use the word work there, but I wouldn't characterize it as work. I would characterize it as more mission based. It's more sort of like there's a purpose to it. I know what it's doing. And somebody asked me the other day I can't remember who it was it was like they said uh is still motivated to do this stuff. I was like it actually just compounds. Yeah, Because the asset that you're building and the impact that it's having and the stories that you're getting and that sort of thing it just compounds. And it feels like to me like we started with this block of sand and we've sort of slowly built this sandcastle and it's like getting better and better and better. But it's just the joy is in the doing. Yeah, I'm not really trying to get anywhere really from here. It's actually just how far can we take it, and we'll talk more about that later on. But it's the difference between bricklaying and temple building. That to me, is kind of like the internal difference and the key thing that I really want to pick up here and really hammer home. You want to.

Terry: 15:14

Creative wealth is infinite. So like we've created that value and we've been able to capture some of it for ourselves because we've created more than we've kept Right. So it's actually only in giving that you receive. You have to give more than you get.

Terry: 15:30

That is just how the world works, and so when we sort of started this podcast, we were just like, well, let's put this stuff out there. And it's basically just, we're going to invest hours and hours and hours trying to figure out how to not suck, put together information in a way that actually makes sense. Do that for months, do it for years until it starts to really pay off. That all had to happen and compound before all the other stuff happened, and all those choices that we wanted for ourselves to be self determined, to be able to go to the beach, to be able to do all these kinds of things, materialize after that. Wealth isn't a finite concept. You can create wealth through your ingenuity, through your creativity. You've just got to think about what other people value and how to create more of that and you'll get a slice.

Ryan: 16:10

I just wanted to really kind of drill in on that point, because wealth is not finite. For me to get more doesn't mean I have to take from you or take from others. It actually means you can increase the amount of wealth for everybody at the same time. Yeah, which is kind of hard to process.

Terry: 16:24

Well, if you think about it, before this podcast, before what we do with the cash flow code, the world didn't have the financial education business. That is the business that we've created, and so in creating that, we've created the value and because of that, you get on the back end what you wanted on the front end. The difference is wealth and money. Right, money as it stands is just that scoreboard and it is now a certificate of appreciation. When you think about it this way, because if you're doing what works and you're doing what people value, then that value is reflected in your earning and in what you're getting from that. You have talked about it before.

Terry: 16:57

If you think about wealth this way and you pursue it and you go well, I want this. So I'm going to give the world this to get it. Money is just the marker of how much the world actually appreciates what you're doing. And if they don't appreciate it, change what you're doing, do it slightly differently. That's actually the game, that's the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, that's what I think is fun about the whole thing, because you get fast feedback. You're like, well, the world doesn't hear about that, do something else, or the world does care about that.

Ryan: 17:21

Do more of that. And the cool thing is like, when you're going after the stuff you want, you spend more time in this peak zone. Right, you're in a good energy, you're better to be around. And if you thought about the resentful people or the dementors in life, the ones that suck the energy out of you, they're usually the ones that aren't really getting after what they actually want. Yeah, they've created a little bit of a resentment towards the world, in it being a place of struggle, and they kind of hold that frame. If everyone was getting after what they want and they were excited by what they were creating and building and they weren't limited by the things that get in the way which we'll dig into in a sec then everyone would just be having a better time.

Terry: 18:01

The world would just be a more enjoyable place 100%, 100%, and this is the thing I wanted to add to it as well. If you are pursuing what you want because you want it, what you're going to have to do is find out what you're a particularly good at. You have to, because that is the only way you can create enough value to become wealthy in your own eyes and get what you want in terms of the choices and the life and the things that you actually value. So, by pursuing your wants because you want them, you will have to find the gifts that you have to give to the world.

Terry: 18:30

So, if we think about again come back to our situation here the thing that lights me up about what we do we talked about this on our last offside was the thing that really gets me going is when I can democratize information and I take something that's like feels like it's locked away and it feels like it's beyond people and the lights go on and I can see that that has kind of moved from A to B. The manifestation of that is the podcast. Right From your perspective, you're more about how do we help people put this stuff into practice by building these tools. Do you want to talk more about that, because I think that's moved us both in a direction where we're getting better and better at certain skill sets because of it.

Ryan: 19:06

Yeah, for sure. It's also worth adding the like. Sometimes those wants. There's people around you that don't necessarily want it either and you have to combat some of those things. Like you think about the podcast, for example, when you were like I want to do a podcast, I was like, oh, fuck that I don't really want to.

Ryan: 19:24

It's not something that I would do if it wasn't for you. And so you were like, no, I want to do it. We should pursue it and look what we've now created because of that. Same on my side, there's things where I've been like I want to build this time. I want to build these tools, I want to. You know, we're building an app right now that we're about to go into beta in the next couple of days in terms of money management tools.

Ryan: 19:43

It's things at the start where you're like we don't need to do that. Yeah, we're growing. Where you know we can focus on education, we don't need to add all these layers of tech and stuff like that. But I've been like, yeah, but I want to. And because of that, you know you push forward on things like that and because you spend more time obsessing over it, because you just love doing it, it's not work, it becomes play. You create things that don't exist, and that is probably speaking to those gifts you talked about. Like, as soon as you pull on those threads of what am I most curious about, what am I most interested in, then how can I attach that to creating value for other people? What you can build is going to be unique, and that uniqueness ends up being something that rewards you handsomely.

Terry: 20:26

It's a really good point on both sides. Whenever you go after pursuing what you want, you will probably have to try to justify yourself to others at certain times, and that example is perfect, right, same thing both ways in opposite directions where you're like this is what we should do. Well, what do we need to do that for? This is what we should do. Why do we need to do that for? And you're going to have this in all areas of your life. You're going to have people, like on the other side of it who can't see it for you, and it's in that sort of pursuit where you go okay, cool, but this is actually what's going to move me closer to what I'm uniquely gifted at. So, like I said this to you a couple of weeks ago, when you guys showed us the first version of the app, I was like I'm so glad you pushed for this, because this is fucking epic, it's going to unlock so so much for us. Like this is the thing where we said the wants are creative. They're not just creative in terms of, like wealth outside of you. They're creative in terms of who you are, because you become a completely different person when you are pursuing your wants. You have to. You have to figure out what is it the world wants from me, what is it that I'm uniquely gifted at giving others in order to be able to get what I want? Yep, and that's the whole thing. Like, if you could just get one thing, if you could just not judge your wants, just pursue them, let them go where they go. Where you can end up is really really different.

Terry: 21:38

But if you get stuck on money and just going, well, do we need that? Do I need that? No, I want to just like limit things. It's a little bit more restrictive. It's a little bit more demotivating. You know what I mean. You're getting hung up on the tool instead of actually remembering that that's the target. You go after the target and figure out the tool thing as you go, but because we're conflating money with wealth, wealth is infinite, but money, at any certain period of time, is finite. It's like a fixed mindset that it takes us to. Wealth is not fixed. Wealth is created and it always has been, always will be, because that's how the world works.

Terry: 22:09

That's the biggest thing for me, the biggest insight. Looking backwards and going. That's what it is Like if you really want to get unlocked, get unstuck, get beyond that plateau. Really, what you need to do is go back, sit down, declare what you want, blow up that vision, make it even bigger. Essentially for us, this is essentially exactly what's happened for us.

Terry: 22:27

Mitch facilitated life by design with Elise and I and we just went bang, let's make it even bigger. We've got to a place where we're self-determined what's the next level? What do we want now? And for me, I want to be able to travel. I want to be able to be all these different places and to have these adventures and experiences with my kids, and I want to give them an education of the world and create a curriculum of education for them. That's just so different to what I had. I had a very narrow education, just like this, and when I came out into the world, I'm like there's so much more going on here and I want to give my kids those opportunities. And because of that, so I come back into the business and I'm like let's go again, let's push this whole thing up, let's actually 10x our goals. And it's actually since then, the past two months, since we've done that, I've been the biggest in the business history by the biggest margin ever, because we've been looking at the problem completely differently, haven't we?

Ryan: 23:14

For sure. The thing is like, as soon as you state your intent to and also probably more so coming back to what we were saying before around like there's always going to be someone that says do you really need that? You hear this all the time. Right, like little things. I wrote Britain, I did our life by design with Mitch, had that facilitated just recently as well, and there's lots of things in there where you go.

Ryan: 23:34

Do you really need that? Probably not. Have someone come and cook for you three nights a week so that you don't have to, but you're getting good and interest as food. Do you actually need that? No, but I want it. Do you need to spend a couple of months in Europe every year, or have that? At least have the choice to do that? No, but do you want to? Yeah. So all of these things that make you go well, I'm going to put in more work. I'm going to do more, create more. I'm going to spend still be at the computer at 10 30 at night tweaking and refining the designs of this app, for example, because I want those things, not because I need it and if you can get past needing permission or asking or, I guess, waiting for a license to do those things, then you're just going to stay stuck in it.

Ryan: 24:14

Sometimes you do need to ask for forgiveness rather than permission, in my opinion, and so it is something where, like you said, you make it bigger, make it more bold, you make it more compelling, make it more exciting the things that you want, but also date that intent, and all of a sudden, you've got this social contract with whoever you've spoken with, whoever you've said it to hey, I want this. All of a sudden, the likelihood of you getting after it is dramatically higher too, because we want to do what we've said we would. We want to walk the talk. But in saying that, not all wants are necessarily constructive. There are absolutely ones that go the other way, more destructive, and we obviously spend a bit of time talking about the mesas on memetic desire Probably want to lay up for you here I think you'll speak to this quite well around, I guess how you would actually contrast those two constructive, destructive, and why you would do that as well.

Terry: 25:02

Yeah, we discussed memetic desire in depth and talked about that as almost like a source of social gravity. It's just we're getting pulled in these different directions because we're looking externally to models and wanting to have what they have to be, like they are. And what's interesting to me is that you cannot eliminate this part of us because it just seems to be how we're wired. We are mimicking beings. We do that. So it's not a question of if you're wants are memetic, it's how much you're wants are memetic. So I think it is important to sort of be able to try to separate those two things, because if it's not aligned to your values, then it is going to be an empty pursuit. It's going to be an empty pursuit that ultimately kind of leads you nowhere and you'll feel used and abused by your wants as opposed to propelled and guided and driven by them in a productive way. So the caveat here is that you really want to make sure that there's a pretty strong element of intrinsic motivation that comes with these wants. It's not that there's not going to be any status. That's involved 100%. There's going to be status involved 100%. But if you can make sure that it's aligned to your values and who you want to be, specifically the identity that you want to claim. So, coming back to my example there, it's all about travel. It's all about living this life of like, really being able to give these kids all these experiences, give them a curriculum of the world and how the world works, and create those opportunities, experiences for them.

Terry: 26:20

It's all about being the kind of family, the kind of dad that I want to be, and no doubt part of that is because I'm kind of looking at other models and going well, I want to be slightly different, but that's a meaningful pursuit.

Terry: 26:31

For me it's meaningful and there's a kind of a litmus test and we'll talk to it later on as well. But for me, the easy way around this is to sort of separate it out. If you feel worthless for not having something probably more of an externalised mimetic desire than it is internalised, it's probably too much mimetic for you. So if you're looking at somebody else and saying I don't have that, therefore I'm worse or I'm less than I, see this a lot with fire, actually, people comparing net worth and thinking that that's wealth and saying I'm not wealthy because I don't have the $2 million portfolio of passive income dividends, and you see that you're getting dragged into this magnetic game, comparing yourself externally instead of pursuing your own wants, going in your own direction and getting more of what you want because of that, again, that's why we say flyer. It's kind of like becoming a bit more of another race.

Ryan: 27:18

Yeah, for sure. And you said that you want to revere one of those bad-ass electric utes. Yeah, it's electric, that's pretty basic.

Terry: 27:24

American truck, but it's electric.

Ryan: 27:28

Now, as it passed the litmus test, does it make you?

Terry: 27:30

feel worthless not having it. Mate, we've got one car. I'm totally fine with that. I ride a scooter into the office in Jalong Totally fine with that. I don't feel less than for not having a Rivian, but I know that if I got to a place where I was able to afford a Rivian and that was well within my means.

Terry: 27:46

I'm doing pretty good. I've done pretty good for the world to be able to make that possible. If that makes sense, yeah, so that to me is kind of the difference. I don't feel bad for declaring that. But now, who do I need to become? What do I need to give to be able to get to a place where having a Rivian is actually within my means?

Ryan: 28:01

It's not a cheap car, probably going to have to bloody import the thing now, but it is what it is right, yeah, and that's the thing about once right, that's not actually selfish, because you have to be selfless to get it. And so for you to do that, you have to create a lot more value in the world for it to become something that's well within your means. And the interesting thing around like I always think of what Navarra, ravikant, you made that quote around desires, which is a desire, is a contract with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want, to get that thing. And this is where I think we want to kind of dig into that a little bit, because I think if it is extrinsic, like you've said, it is more memetic, then it will be something that creates a level of worthlessness until you get it, because it is a comparison, it's a game of comparison between you and others. Are you at the same standing as the other people around you, whereas the intrinsic pulls it back into that.

Ryan: 28:51

It's about you becoming that identity that you said. Am I becoming a better version of myself, a true version of myself? And in that pursuit, as you're becoming a true part of yourself, there isn't really necessarily a gap in between you and others. You don't have that competitive nature in that dynamic. Instead, it's just like your internal reference points of progress, looking back, seeing how far you've come, still having an eye on the future of what you want to create, but more so that actualization of your identity. I haven't observed that within myself, creating that feeling of worthlessness, if you like, when it's going after something that I want and it's intrinsic, that never seems to be, and I think that's why that question is so good, whereas when it's external you do create that it does feel like a contract to be unhappy with where you're at.

Terry: 29:37

So I don't like those net worth projections or those kind of things, because it sort of drags people into that kind of comparison and it pulls you off your own path and it pulls you onto somebody else's, and there's always going to be somebody with more. You see those miserable billionaires that still are not happy because they don't have enough bees in front of their name and you're like what a joke. Wealth isn't money and money isn't wealth. Wealth is having more of what you value. So who cares if you've got billions if you don't have more of what you value? It's like getting just too caught up in the tool instead of actually realizing the target. You can have the target and you can live a wealthy life well before you hit your million dollar portfolio, Well before.

Ryan: 30:17

Yeah, and we see this. We've had guys join our program, the mentorship, haven't we where they've gone? They've been going really hard at this fire thing and you hear them describe their life and you just go fuck and I go well, you know, you've got a lot more than me on paper, I would say, but I feel like I'm living the dream. Yeah, there's definitely still things I want to create and build and other layers, but in comparison, I'm very, very free, even though you have a lot more money in the bank or in your portfolio. So it is something you want to contrast. Hey, I want to get to. Why don't we actually declare the things we want? What stops us from really just being like hey, this is what it is, this is what I want to get after. Why is that?

Terry: 30:57

So I think all of this comes down to the way we're socialized. Yeah, it's funny. I was having a conversation with Indians 50 other night and I was telling them a story before they went to bed. I always tell them some story about my life. I told them this story about how I still hold the school record for the longest suspension ever at my high school, and I told them about why I got suspended and what I did wrong. But I did tell them one thing I did right. I said look, I made this mistake. We did this thing. We broke out of this boarding house, we went across the road and we stole all these golf calls and the golf course and we started selling them back to the teachers. That was the wrong thing to do. Now, everybody was doing it. But we just happened to get caught, along with a few others, and everybody else lied about it and said that they didn't do it because they didn't have any proof. And when I came to my group of friends, they said what do we do? And I said I think we just tell the truth. Oregon, I'll take it easy on us if we do.

Terry: 31:50

Yeah, it didn't play out that way. It didn't play out that way at all. We were pretty much the scapegoat and we got made the example of. But what ended up happening for me was I won the respect of all the teachers because they actually knew that everybody was lying and they knew that I told the truth. So later on at that high school, when it was time for school captains and things to be voted in, my peers voted me in and the teachers backed it, even though I'd had that mark against my name, and the reason they gave was that guy tells the truth, that guy is trustworthy. And so the story, the moral of the story for my kids was it's not whether you make mistakes You're going to make mistakes all the time. The most important thing that you have is your self-respect, and the way that you keep your self-respect is always be honest, always be upfront. You don't have to be perfect, it's totally fine and it was so funny. I have to say it's one of the most funniest moments of my life as a dad, because what ended up happening after that was Indian Smith just started like confessing all these things they'd done for me and they started telling me oh, he did. I did this the other day. I'm really sorry about it. I did this the other day and then anyway, this is interesting because Indian says Smith climbed up the pantry and got the tiny teddies from the top shelf I think they were thinking that I was going to go crooked them and I sort of said, that's okay, man, like if you really wanted the tiny teddies, you figured out how to make it happen.

Terry: 33:11

You wanted the tiny teddies, you figured out how to do it. I'm really happy for you to do that. Now I want you to be very careful. You probably could hurt yourself. I don't like that idea, but I'm not going to condemn you for going after that thing that you want.

Terry: 33:23

Think that's very different to the messaging we get all the time and I've got to check myself all the time as well I want this. You're going through the stores and they're like I want this and you go no, no, we don't need that. No, no, we don't need that and we don't really need that, right? So that messaging we're getting all the time we don't need that, we don't need that, we don't need that, we don't need that. So we are socialized to only have what we need and to want any more than you need is actually selfish, and that's how we're kind of taught to think about this, this concept of wants, and so that's why I said at the start, this is very counter narrative and counter culture, particularly when it comes to personal finance, because the popular stuff that's out there, it actually just plays into that conditioning you should just minimize your life, make it as small as possible, just want less, but that's coming at the cost of your wealth and it's coming at the cost of the wealth of the world, because you're not creating the version of yourself that you could, you're not creating the value that you might and you're not getting any out.

Terry: 34:17

And so you're living this game where you're trying to squeeze more blood out of a stone when in actual fact you could be playing a very, very, very different game. That's the biggest one for me. I reckon, if it's a source of any of this that stops us, it's the socialization of needs versus wants. Want to bad, needs a good, in actuality. What if it's a complete opposite? What if it's just that once are good? Needs are a little bit more restrictive than we actually realize.

Ryan: 34:39

And I think everybody listening can resonate with that to some degree and usually it's family and it's people that are closest to that you're like. Well, I don't want to put them offside or create friction in those relationships, and so you so often probably reserve yourself based on that fact, and sometimes it's your family or your partner or friends that you have. It's the interesting question of you should ask yourself who would be the person that would judge you for having done that. Who would be the person that says mate, that's over the top, Reel it back in. Why?

Terry: 35:11

do you need that much? Why do you need to travel like that? Why do you need that revian car? What do you need to do that stuff? It's all coming back to socialization. So you get socialized to have only what you need, and then you internalize those voices and they become your own voices. You get older and so then you stop yourself, but actually what's happening is it's that other person's voice that you're worried about. So you actually don't declare what you want, you don't go after what you want, you don't become who you could and you don't build the wealth or live that wealthy life because of it.

Ryan: 35:37

And why did those people ask that question? Why do they say do you really need that? It's because they didn't get after what they want and because of that they don't want you to. And also they've been socialized the same way. Yeah, to flow. In effect, just the social conditioning, and the phrase that always comes to mind when you think about those things is it was an important part of becoming a person that you can get along with other people, to become a social with the friendship groups and the family and all those things to get along basically. But always come to that quote of what got you to here won't get you there. And so there's an element of shedding of these ideas, and this is the whole purpose of this episode is to help you shed that conditioning. Basically, that has hardwired into being your own dialogue, your own narrative. Like you said, it's the things that you say to yourself so that you can question it. They stabilize those ideas a little bit to then be able to shed them.

Terry: 36:25

Do you know what I find really interesting? If you look at people who have had blowout success, a lot of them didn't have one parent. They were missing an aspect of this socialization and there was almost like a part of it. Then there was like fuck you, I'll go after what I want, I don't need your approval yeah, you weren't even here. And so you think about your Jay-Z's, your Kanye West, your Steve Jobs, your Jeff Bezos, this type of person. They lack that part of it and it changes the way they kind of move through the world. They just pursue their wants. It gets a bad name because those people are kind of looked at as like bad, evil people and that doesn't mean they're always behaving well, yeah, but what I'm saying is they just lack that filter, that edit. They're not trying to be a good little boy for a mom and dad, to minimize themselves and want less. They're just going after what they want.

Ryan: 37:11

There's a real in spite of energy isn't there To like? I'm going to do this because how else can I think about that frame with parents which is you become who you are because of them or in spite of and it's not necessarily that it's binary. It kind of swings in different ways with different parents. But I can definitely see there's a lot of it coming from being like and I hear this a lot. I think about Love by Designs, when kind of pulling out drivers for people.

Ryan: 37:33

A thing that comes up a lot for people as key drivers is that they have a parent that kind of become quite resentful. They have people in their life they look at. They became really resentful people because they'd never really created or went after the things that they wanted to, and because of that they're like I'm driven to do these bigger and bolder things in spite of that being like I don't want that for me and they kind of reject that too, and so I think there's a lot of that energy that kind of feeds into that way you go. You know what? Because of that I'm going to get after the things that I actually want to.

Terry: 38:05

And I see it as the best way to honor your parents is to transcend them. Yeah, it's not to stay where they are with them out of some sort of thwart logic of loyalty, it is actually to transcend them and to be better off than they were. That's what every parent wants for their kids, Consciously. That's what they want, Unconsciously. They may have acted another way, but if you ask any parent, they will always tell you I want you to be better off than me, and so the best thing you can do is ignore the judgment that you might see, hear or feel from them. Do what you're doing and do it because of them. That's what I want for Indian Smith. I want them to transcend me and say look, you were pretty good with these things here, Dad, but here's something you missed. I'm going to sort of get beyond it. I would love that.

Ryan: 38:47

I could imagine there's been quite a few conversations that you and Elisa have had around some of the limitations that kids set on themselves based off their parents, because I'm sure this comes out in the trauma work that Elisa does. What's in that school of thought, or the findings, I guess, around setting our limitation or the ceiling of our potential at what our parents have achieved? Is there anything there?

Terry: 39:09

I don't know if I can answer that simply. To be honest, there's so many layers to that. Elisa would be so much better to answer that than I would, but when it comes to this context, I just think, coming back to that question, whose judgment would you worry about? There's always a secondary gain for staying where you are. There's a hidden benefit, and it always usually comes back to being in rapport with one or both of your parents that you have a particularly strong connection to, and your worry is that if I transcend them, then I'll isolate myself from them, which makes me vulnerable, which makes me unsafe, and it's a very primitive fear and it's never true.

Terry: 39:39

Again, we talked about fears. The episode that Mitch and I did every fear that you have is a fallacy. It's false evidence appearing real. There's no way that if you ultimately just ten X your life that your parents would disown you. That actually cannot happen. Biologically it really wouldn't. And if your parents are the ones that disowned you after doing that, guess what? They were never actually your parents. Probably somebody else played that role for you, mate, that is a huge insight and hearing it from a parent's perspective is so valuable.

Ryan: 40:03

I think that's going to penetrate some thinking that a lot of people are having and kind of breaking through some of those barriers, because I've definitely seen, observed it a lot. So we're talking about here why don't we declare our wants? I feel like there's another side to this also, which is about having to do more to get them, and I think about the law of least effort. Human beings, we are lazy in different ways. There's something here around that isn't there in terms of not necessarily thinking bigger because you're like, oh, it's going to create more work.

Terry: 40:33

Let's say you're working for a salary right now and let's say that the work you're doing doesn't light you up and you perceive it as work and it exhausts you. You have to go into work and you have to wear a mask while you're going in there. You might be hearing this and you might be thinking well, it's all well and good, but if you're telling me, I have to do a lot more of this work, I don't want to do any of it. Yeah, I'm not enjoying this at all. And so you're tightly coupling. You're thinking that extra wealth like you going after something and making more money and you making things better is going to be you 10xing your work. But in actual fact, it's completely opposite. Your sense of work changes and the amount of effort you're putting in actually decouples from money, because you will inevitably have to find more leverage to be able to do more with less to create enough value to make it all happen. So, for example, what is the podcast other than leverage? You'll listen to this episode right now while we're talking, but guess what? Thousands of people are listening to the other 99 episodes in front of it. Yep, we only recorded them once.

Terry: 41:30

What you end up doing as you pursue your wants is decoupling time and money. For every unit of time you're getting more, you're actually giving more value and getting part of that for time. So you can get into this fixed mindset with money and particularly if you are on a fixed income and you think well, you're asking me to do more, I don't want to do anymore. I already feel like I'm doing heaps, and part of that is because of the way you're relating to the work, the concept of work itself, because it's not actually in pursuit of what you want, yep, and the other part of it is that you're thinking that money and time are always very tightly linked, and that's actually just never the case when you're pursuing your wants, is it?

Ryan: 42:04

For sure.

Ryan: 42:04

So it sounds like that work you're doing is not what you want, so that's not it, it's not the vehicle, and so you actually need to change that vehicle.

Ryan: 42:12

No longer be trading time for money and that time being spent on things that suck the life out of you, but go on the other way and say, all right, let's call out here, at least find the clues of what you do want so you can spend more time on it.

Ryan: 42:23

And, like I said before, when you start creating stuff that is in tune with those unique gifts, but also the things you just enjoy doing, the things you find meaningful, you want to share it with as many people as you possibly can, and you find means of leverage because of that. Because you're like I'm excited by what I've done here and what I've built, I can't wait to share it with the world, and so you find ways to share it with the world too. The podcast is an example of that building the app and building the platform that we've built. So we want to help more people on that front, and because of that, you need to find leverage, and so there's definitely all those things will become obvious as soon as you find something you're excited to share, and that's by doing the stuff that you want to do ultimately.

Terry: 43:05

I wrote a post on LinkedIn not long ago and it said your want or need for passive income is inversely correlated to the meaning you have in your work. So if you have a low meaning in your work, then you'll really want a lot of passive income. But if you just fix the work thing, then your need for passive income changes completely. So why not skip to the wealthy part, fix that and then figure out the passive income thing as a result of that and creating more value on the back end? That's exactly what's happened for us. Most of the investments we made over these last four or five years are in the business. It's your time, your talent, your money. You keep reinvesting it to make it happen and you get to live more of that life that you actually want. That's actually the way to do it. Fix the actual problem, Like make the main thing the main thing, Don't get so caught up on the tool.

Ryan: 43:46

And I think this will become an episode in itself but no credit module in the program around. The fastest way to retirement? The fastest way to retirement is to and the definition of retirement being when you're no longer sacrificing today for an imaginary tomorrow. The fastest way there is to find work that you find meaningful, Doing the things that you want, because you're no longer looking for ways to escape it. And so that's a such an important thing to call out. Anything else you'd add to why we don't declare our wants.

Terry: 44:14

The only thing I'd add to that is like it's okay for you to stop doing the thing you're doing now or pursue something different, or start moving that direction and not get it right first up. You can actually just move in a different direction to learn more and figure out where that actually is. That is the best way to do it. You're never going to jump from the thing you're doing now to the thing you end up doing. It's about just moving in that direction and allowing yourself that grace to be able to figure that as you go, because I think that's where I see a lot of people get stuck. They go I'm going to find my passion and if I'm not passionate about it, then it's not it. And actually what you really should be doing is saying let me find out what I'm really really good at in pursuit of these wants For me.

Terry: 44:52

If you came to me in that moment where my boss is telling me that my job's changing and I don't really have a say in that sort of thing, if you came to me in that moment and said, hey, you're going to build a financial education business, you'll have a platform that education is faithful and does all this sort of stuff and said you'll be doing this. I was just laughed in your face. But it's actually just on the journey of doing that that you start to figure out what it is you want, what it is you want to do, and so it's like I want to be more self-determined. I'm going to go in pursuit of that Now. I'm building all this skills, tools, knowledge. Could other people make use of this stuff? Yeah, potentially. And then it turns out that they do. And then you find yourself here. I think that concept of like there's one thing, like everybody treats work like it's a lover, like you've got one job, that's just that's going to be the thing. Yeah, it's okay to keep figuring it out as you go.

Ryan: 45:35

Yeah, yeah, and everyone's got clues, everyone's got an inkling about what it could be and you just need to pull on that thread. Don't think you need to know what it is, just pull on the thread. Now let's get to. I mentioned at the start that we've got a little bit of a framework for this, a little bit of an exercise, if you like A three step process that helps you basically use your wants to create wealth for yourself, to get more of what you value ultimately, and do that in a way that's creative, not destructive. What's the first?

Terry: 46:00

step. I think this is the most important thing and if you just take this first step, you'll probably be more than fine. It's actually just to choose the way you want to actually view that journey and that pursuit, and we call it a frame of reference. It's just how you look at anything. If you see wealth as a competition of accumulation, it's probably going to be mostly memetic. What we recommend is to see it as a journey of actualization. That's more intrinsic.

Terry: 46:24

So, for example, coming back to that Rivian, that's a thing, that's a possession. But if I look at the Rivian and I say I must have a Rivian because I need to actually other people to see me driving around in a Rivian and I need my next door neighbor to see it in the driveway and that sort of thing, that's a competition of accumulation. Whereas if I see it as just a marker, then I've got to a place where having a car like that is well within my means and it's you know, it's not superfluous at all. That's not living in excess. I'm not like taking out a massive loan to get it. Actually, maybe I can even buy it outright because I've created that much value. That to me would be a marker that I've created enough value in the world.

Terry: 46:59

So that difference between seeing it as a competition of accumulation and trying to win that competition, where there is winners and losers, where you collect badges and trophies, it turns it into a finite game and you feel like you need to play to win, which means there's a prospect of loss, whereas if you see it as a journey of actualization, then it's an internalized game. These are milestones and markers and it's an infinite game that you just want to play because you want to play it. That changes the way you see it in terms of stress, doesn't it?

Ryan: 47:26

If I think about the work that you do. Right, there's always work required to create it. Well, it depends. Everyone wanted to find work, but it's amazing I'd use that example before of like spending 37 and a half hours a week and you find yourself playing those finite games, playing to win and often that's it to outcompete the people around you. Then, all of a sudden, the work you find yourself doing or stuck on become obstacles of struggle, basically put yourself under distress versus you think about in that other frame, which is it's a journey of actualization, your creating value, playing that infinite game and enjoying just the game itself enjoying playing it. All of a sudden, obstacles just become challenges. They're things that make you better If you're proud of being able to overcome those challenges and come out the other side and have this confidence that comes with doing that. And so I think the way that you look at the challenges that you have because you're going to have them regardless is massively impacted on how you kind of sit with that frame. Is it accumulation or is it actualization? And I've seen this within myself.

Ryan: 48:26

Absolutely, when you are in that place of feels like struggle because it's not actually what I want, I'm doing it in a competitive way. Then you start to seek relief and you seek immediate reward. You buy things for the dopamine hit to the mood repair versus when you're sitting at the computer at 10.30 at night building this app, working on the designs and stuff. You're seeking progress and purpose, which is so different. You find those things very quickly too, and so how you look at it through those frames massively changes how you feel about the challenge. But also it allows you to commit to something long enough because you want to seek progress, because you feel the purpose, as opposed to step away from it and go. I need to find some relief, I want to go on a holiday, I want to buy something and get to meet Cheet up for a period of time, and so when it is a journey of actualization, you just keep doing it for longer and you build better, cooler shit because you just love playing the game.

Terry: 49:21

If you are pursuing this as a competition of accumulation, you're more likely to trade time for money, whereas if you see it as a journey of actualization, you're more likely to trade money for time, because time is the way you're spending your time. Are you doing what you want to do with that time? It's the most precious resource you have, and so if you are feeling stuck, it's probably because, on some level yet, you are trading time for money. You might be in a job, you might be in a place where you're doing something you hate, because you're making a shit ton of money and you're not living a wealthy life. You might be getting rich, but they're not the same thing, and so you can get sucked into that game if you're seeing it the wrong way, because you think that the game is about accumulating money, when, in actual fact, what we're trying to do is build a wealthy life. They're very different, aren't they?

Ryan: 50:05

Yeah, that's a right race, isn't it? Okay, so, step one, step one is to consciously choose your frame of reference. Go for that, I guess. Prioritize the journey of actualization over the competition of accumulation.

Terry: 50:16

Well, step two. Step two, I think, is just to declare your wants. Don't judge them Like let yourself say I want this because I want it and don't allow other people to make you justify it, to say I want it because I want it, and just see where that takes you. I find this really interesting too, and doing it with Mitch was really interesting. You throw a bunch of stuff out on the page. I get a feeling that 80% of what we put on the page was really us and 20% probably doesn't really matter. Maybe the rivion falls into that, I don't know. But I think it's okay to just like throw it out onto the page and then just start to figure out what is real to me and what isn't.

Terry: 50:51

Now, if I really really, really, really really wanted the rivion, I could tell you exactly how much it's going to cost to import it. I would have all that stuff probably down pat. I don't really have that yet. What I really do want to know is how do we get to a place where we are traveling, you know, in those winter months of the year, and how much will we need to be funding for that? So I've been forecasting, looking at what we need to be earning to be able to make that happen. So that tells me something about which of these wants are kind of real. But the first step is just to just declare what they are and then start to sort them out after that, which is more sort of I'm skipping the step three, but anything you would add to that I think the what can help and I think as part of us is we created this episode now to use as a tool of choice.

Ryan: 51:32

But if someone is judging you or you can even hear that narrative coming in but if you do declare it and someone does say do you need that? Give them this episode, share it with them, make them challenge their own reasoning behind asking that question as well. I think if we can normalize that, people just do more, create more, go after things they want, be better, energy people that's ultimately what we want, right? So step two declare your wants. What's step three Sounds like you stepped into it a little bit.

Terry: 52:00

I did. I think it's just from there, just letting yourself kind of go okay, which of these wants are mine and which of these are a little bit more externalized, maybe a bit more memetic, and start to sort through that. Now I think you can do that with a question Would you feel worthless if you didn't have it? Is it a game of comparison that you're playing here, and who are you comparing yourself to on that front? And if you can name that as probably good? But it's also okay to figure that out over time.

Terry: 52:24

Like I remember way back to our episode with Gab Papalato, she talked about wanting to fund this like epic, audi, car, yeah, and then she just never actually prioritized it with her spending but the way she was saving, and so she sort of just realized over time that actually probably isn't. It's not really intrinsic to me at all. I don't really know why I wanted that, and I think that's fine too. It's just to get them out on the page and then just start going. You'll start moving in the direction of the stuff that actually does motivate you and that's the stuff that'll help you to actualize yourself in pursuit of it.

Ryan: 52:51

I think that's completely true. I think it's okay, too, to get it wrong, like to stay, you want that and then to get it, and then for it not to be the thing that actually made things better. It felt like you actualized that identity that you talked about who you want to be, what you want to become, and so you're going to get it wrong. You're going to go after some dumb shit too and see if you might get a review in mute, for example, and then go hang on, this thing doesn't even steer. Well, we don't even use it and it's just pitch to park and you might change your mind and that's sweet. But the good thing is in getting after it. You've probably done some good work, and because we're business partners, I'm better off for it too.

Terry: 53:28

So, look, that's it. That probably takes us to the end of this episode, right, like? If there's one thing you take away from it really assist this main point, which is your wants are the key to you living a wealthy life, and if you can allow yourself and give yourself permission to declare what they are and then decide to go after them, you will become a very different version of yourself. In pursuit of those wants, you will give more to the world in order to get those things, if they really really matter to you. So if you're kind of worried about it, and you're worried that you're the judgment of others, just remember that we're socialized to kind of think about what we only need, and know that you're working against those forces and know that most of it is an illusion.

Terry: 54:05

And more money and more wealth for you doesn't mean more work. It actually should mean less work. It should mean more meaning, more purpose, more progress in all aspects of your life, and if you choose to see it as a journey of actualization, you won't get sucked into competitions of accumulation that are mostly emomatic and lead nowhere. You might make mistakes along the way, but you'll figure it out as you go. The key thing, I think is that you're moving that direction because you will become the most productive version of yourself and you will find out what you're capable of in pursuit of those wants.

Ryan: 54:33

Love it, love it. And I'd just say if you know of someone that you feel like is suffocating and kind of not getting after those things in whatever they're doing, share this with them. See if it likes to put a bit of C4 under their rear end and get some moving.

Terry: 54:47

Last thing to add if you found this episode challenging, my challenge to you is listen to it a couple of times and actually really consider how it could be true. Consider examples in your own life where you've pursued your wants without really judging yourself, and have a look around at people in your life who have been doing the same and what that actually means for them as well. So I know this is probably going to be quite challenging for a lot of people to hear, because we are in a world now where everybody's very, very focused on minimising, minimising, minimising, making everything smaller. But in actual fact, that's not how the world works.

Ryan: 55:20

Works the other way and just to call out, like I know for me, even though it's challenging, as soon as I came across this idea and this work by, as you mentioned, Dan Sullivan before, I felt more free almost instantly because my wants didn't feel dirty and that's worth sharing. Good stuff, mate. See you in the next episode. Good stuff. Talk soon, mate.