#104 Brooke and John | From Bickering About The Little Things to Making the Big Things Happen

In this episode, Terry sits down with two exemplars of teamwork: Brooke and John Dawson. Their story of transformation is an inspiration for those who back each other, but find themselves bickering when it comes to money. 

12 months ago, they were working hard. But things weren't working. And taking on second jobs, and counting every cent didn't seem to matter.  They'd been focused on buying a home for years, but their efforts didn't seem to be paying off. 

They knew that if they couldn't figure it out, it would continue to create unnecessary stress and tension between them. In this conversation, they discuss how they went about transforming themselves, their money, and their lives. 

They now have choices they never thought they’d have. And they’re reconsidering what is possible for their future together.

If you’ve had big ambitions for the year, but that motivation is starting to slide, this episode will get you back in the game.

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Transcript

0:30

Welcome to the wealth time freedom show. I'm your host, Terry Condon. And in this episode, I want to introduce you to two people. I've learned so much from John and Brooke started their personal finance journey with us about a year ago. And to say their transformation has been impressive. That'd be a massive understatement. They're almost unrecognizable from when we first met them. Say that we're working really hard, but things weren't working, they were taking on extra jobs, tracking every cent and just making big sacrifices, but it didn't really seem to do much. There will be caring about all these little things because the one big thing that we're fixated on buying their own home, that seems to be getting further and further away when it should have been getting closer. But the one thing about these guys is they're a team. And as a team, they decided to tackle the problem head on. And as we've gotten to know them through things really stood out for me about these two. Number one, they take time to consider their options and do their due diligence. But when they commit they do so without doubt, and they do not hesitate. And the second thing is that when they learn something new, they act before assessing or questioning. And I think those two traits have accelerated their progress more than anything else. And as a result of their bias for action in a 12 month period, their life together has taken a very, very different direction. They now have choices. They never thought they'd have, and they're reconsidering what's possible for their future together. Yeah, the conversation you're about to hear is not beyond the realms of possibility for any couple committed to building a better life together. So if you've had big ambitions for the year, but that motivation starting to slide, and you're starting to feel a little bit helpless. This episode is going to get you back in the game. Hope you enjoy.

Terry: 2:01

Welcome back to the Wealth Time Freedom Show. This is Terry here and I'm here with Brooke and John. Welcome to the show guys. Thanks, Terry.

Brooke and John: 2:08

Thanks for having us.

Terry: 2:09

Thanks for having us. This is the third time I've had you this afternoon. So I appreciate your patience. The internet's been killing us, but I think we've got a solution. So guys, I really wanted to get you on the show because for me, I think you're one of the best examples of how quickly things can change and I guess the scope and the scale of transformation that can happen when you have a real. Action bias and when you do it together as a team. So I'm really pumped to dig into your story and where you've taken things, particularly over the last 12 months. So tell me, what have you guys done in the last 12 months? It's

Brooke and John: 2:41

been busy. It has been busy. We have done a month long trip in Europe. We have paid for my permanent residency visa, and we've invested in a pretty expensive course for my writing. We have actually just booked another trip to go overseas in about a month. And then the big news, I guess, for what recently is, our offer that we put into a house just got accepted. About an hour ago. Yeah. It's been glorious. What a good

Terry: 3:11

timing for this episode, too, that you told me just before on air. And I was like, what? That's huge, right? You guys have been working to this for well beyond 12 months. This has been something you, it's been on the horizon for a long time, right? It's been a

Brooke and John: 3:22

while, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Very exciting.

Terry: 3:26

And one of the things you talked about too, Brooke, when you were telling me about that trip, the one you took to Europe was hiring the expensive

Brooke and John: 3:32

car. And Canada, because I just casually went home to Canada for a week to see my family at the end of that Europe trip. Wait,

Terry: 3:40

so we've gone to Europe, we've gone to Canada, we're going back again to Canada. Yes. All right. Yes. And while you built a deposit along the way for the house, now you've secured the house, Yep. Investing in yourself for the 10K. And also you've been investing in your portfolio along the way, haven't you?

Brooke and John: 3:54

Yes, we have. Yep. That's pretty epic. I don't know how it's possible, but somehow we've done it.

Terry: 4:01

I actually don't know either. But you've done it.

Brooke and John: 4:04

Guys, how did we get here? I don't know. I feel like at some point it's going to be like, are we just like blowing all that cash at some point or, but the way that we're planning, it seems to be working, so I don't know. It's just been crazy how much we've accomplished in the last. 12 months. And I think it has really come down to the vision that we've set up and the intention behind the decisions that we're making. We know that everything that we're doing now is in alignment with our bigger kind of picture and made it so much easier to, you know, you talked on the podcast before about those trading spend offs. And I think for us, it's been huge to know, you know, the, that trip to Europe, that was something that we thought wouldn't happen until. I think we had said 2026. Yeah. we were not expecting to be able to have funded it, this quickly and to have done it in a way that we really wanted to do it. So you mentioned before the car that we hired, we ended up getting a very nice car because the trip that we wanted was to drive around to smaller towns and just kind of take things day by day. We didn't plan any of our stops, really. We didn't plan the first one. First night. The place that we're going to. So the first two days, and then we'll just like, just play it as we go kind of thing. It worked out really well. Yeah. But we didn't feel like we were holding back or restricting the trip. It was everything we wanted it to be and more. We still talk about it all the time, but yeah, so that was. We went to mountain bike up in, where was it? Switzerland, I think. In Switzerland? Yeah. That was awesome.

Terry: 5:35

Yeah. So big memory dividends coming your way for the next 20 or 30 years from these, I reckon.

Brooke and John: 5:40

Absolutely. We had the best time.

Terry: 5:42

I'm a fan of these spooky synchronicities. Can you tell me about, tell me about this

Brooke and John: 5:47

church? Oh man. Okay, here's the story. I guess before we did the course we had this vision board that we like sat down and, oh, this is what we want to do. It was a couple years ago, over two years ago. And, I've got it saved as my background on my laptop. I was just like playing around with something and then closed something and Brooke was right beside me. And she's like, that picture looks very Yeah. So one of the things on this little vision board was Europe 2026. And when we made it, we just chose random images from the internet, as you do. but I had a closer look and I was like, hang on a second. We've been to that fucking town. And turns out it was this little town in Austria that we visited and we weren't even planning on going to Austria. We hadn't looked specifically at that place. I think it was the day before. I thought I just found this town and was like, Oh, this looks fun. Let's go here. And yeah, fair enough. Looked at it just a couple of weeks ago. Saw the picture. Funny why you chose it. Cause it's like that town after that movie Frozen. Yeah, I think it was the town that inspired the frozen, I don't know, whatever that little city is or whatever, their castle. But I have a picture on my phone that is the exact same as the picture on John's computer. Oh, God. Blew our minds.

Terry: 7:04

You know what's interesting, so, you know, the temptation used to be like the manifestation and all this sort of stuff, but We know now, like, it's that cybernetic nature of the brain, isn't it, and you kind of looked into this too, Brooke. I talk about it a lot in the program is, you setting up or setting an intention creates a gap between what is and what could be, and your brain just goes to work filling that gap over time, whether you know it or not. So a lot of folks, you know, I think this is the value of sitting down to actually lay out an intention for your life. Is that you give your brain a big problem to solve. You know, frequently we'll get people coming to those sessions like, what are we doing this for? Let's get to the numbers. And I always say that like, you cannot optimize, you can't optimize unless you know what you're optimizing for. And they're like, what do you mean? I'm

Brooke and John: 7:45

like, well, we're not just

Terry: 7:47

trying to stack the token. It's not just about getting more money. It's got to do something for you because the money doesn't do anything for you by itself. They're no good having more money if you have less of what you want. And so you just laying out those things that you value, it seems frivolous and I know a lot of people Struggle to sort of break out of the daily grind to be able to think in that way. But it's so important to do it. Isn't it? John, one of the things you said to me was like off the back of that session, the kind of shift for you. Do you want to talk to that a little bit more? Yeah.

Brooke and John: 8:13

The whole life of design, I was a bit dubious at the start, but then after we did that and we sat down and I saw the visual representation of all our goals, the plan. It kind of just highlighted a pathway in my mind that's like, Hey, this could actually happen. And I can see something in front of me that kind of shows that, that was super powerful for me. It's kind of changed the way that I perceive things like, very much

Terry: 8:35

so. Yeah. And it's, I think the word you use there is the most important word, which is see it. You need to be able to see it and you need to see it in your mind's eye. And you need to be able to also feel it because that is kind of like what. He's going to direct all your unconscious decision making toward going and standing in front of churches that you've got a photo of. It's so bizarre how it happens. Let's go back though, guys. So, cause this wasn't the case for you guys, right? Like when we first kind of got together, you guys were feeling very different about this. How would you describe it when we sort of first spoke?

Brooke and John: 9:04

I felt stuck and I felt defeated. I was tired of the bickering and not being able to see eye to eye and. Feeling like, you know, we are both relatively intelligent people. Why are we struggling so much with this? Why are we getting stuck? That's the word. I felt really, really Yeah. It felt like we're doing the right things. Why aren't we seeing results here? And I

Terry: 9:30

was, it was. You say that to me, it's just, that is so weird to me when you say that. because my experience with you guys has been like complete alignment. And I've seen you just on the other side of that first decision and the other side of life by design. So I haven't seen. Before, and when you're kind of explaining it to me like that, I'm like, who are those people? Cause that's not what I see. It's not been my experience. So we were having a conversation just before this around the house being a big ambition of yours for a while. How was this playing out for you guys in terms of the relationship and the way you guys were thinking about using money and discussing and deciding around it? Not

Brooke and John: 10:03

great. I think two of the biggest reasons, the first one was we weren't seeing eye to eye on like how we use money. And two, it was basically the structure that we had set up, it was kind of setting ourselves up for failure. It was just no clear direction. We had one savings account, I believe, that was called House Deposit, but we used it for everything. So whenever we wanted to go somewhere, or do something, or if we needed to, you know, an unexpected expense came up, we always had to draw from that account. So it just created so much conflict, because In my mind, I was thinking we have to save up for the house. And every time we take out of that account, we're going backwards. But then, at the same time, we had to pay for the things that came up. And then we also wanted to still live our lives a little bit. Yeah, it just did not work for us at all. And so, we didn't have a clear, common kind of cause around what are we doing and what is this money being used for. It had been given a job. But then we would change that job as we needed to, but then it made it feel guilty. Was it like, oh,

Terry: 11:13

oh, we're making some pro Oh, actually we're not pregnant. Anytime you get brought out, you're like, yeah, we're actually not, we're not going anywhere. But you actually probably were, but it just felt that way. Is that right? Yeah,

Brooke and John: 11:20

definitely. It felt like we were just sabotaging ourselves the whole time. We'd just, we'd put some money in there and then we'd take it out for, I don't know, like a weekend away or something. And we're like, we felt guilty about that. Like, oh, we won't eat out while we're away. Because we've robbed from the, the house department. That sucks.

Terry: 11:37

That sucks. So then we've got this juxtaposition. So I remember you guys talking to me about the bike. So the bike was a point of contention before this, right? And then the bike afterwards, Brooke, you're arguing for the bike. Can you just talk us through that, difference, where that got to? Yeah,

Brooke and John: 11:54

it was, it was a really weird little situation. I think that was. Yeah, it was huge for us. so basically I wanted to buy a bike and I had cash in the, the house deposit. And you had sold your two other bikes to be able to buy a better bike. He had sold his own bikes and had that money sitting there. But as we mentioned before, we only had one savings account. So sitting in the house deposit, which meant I saw it. As house deposit money, not as bike money. It no longer belonged. Oh, what

Terry: 12:20

about my

Brooke and John: 12:20

bike? Exactly. Exactly. So, lots of arguments ensued.

Terry: 12:25

Yeah. It's crazy, right? Like you think about that, it's actually the same money, but then it goes into a different environment and then there's a different name. And then that changes our dynamic. Yeah. Completely.

Brooke and John: 12:37

Amazing. Yeah, it was, it was crazy. The actual story behind getting the bike that I think the part that really kind of shocked me was I was hard set on how much I had allocated for the bike and wasn't bugging, which was very much. Out of character for me. That was a big change for you because this was after doing the mentorship. Yeah. I was not budging whatsoever. What would it normally would have looked like? I would have just rocked up and be like, how much for the bike? And it would have been like eight grand. And I would have said, that's 8, 000. Give me the bike. Doesn't matter.

Terry: 13:08

Whatever you said. No bargaining whatsoever. Just give me the bike.

Brooke and John: 13:11

I want it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're not a great, a great method. I was hard set on not going above this. And he wasn't coming down to meet me where I was at. So I was like, all right, see you, mate. Anyway, I went back over to talk to Brooke, cause she was waiting on you, and, she was like, you know, what can we do to meet him where he's at? And I was just like, who the hell are you? Mmm. Mmm. What have you done with Brooke? And so she was coming up with ideas about, you know, we can pull money from this account and like rearrange some things. And I was just like, oh, I was at the start, I was like, this is crazy and idea. But then I was like, you know what? No, like we've set this amount. If he doesn't want to come down, I'll look for a bike that meets our requirements and move on. So anyway, I went back over, I said, thanks for letting us look at the bike and we went home. But luckily we did that because that afternoon he rang me back and was like, man, I'll meet you at 7 2, which is what I bought it for. I'll meet you down there. And I ended up getting the bike for

Terry: 14:09

7, 200 bucks. You know what I love about that story? So I see two people whose previous version of themselves completely flipped 180. Yeah. Both in different directions and kind of met in this middle place where I think you were stuck on that point for a while, right? There was like the back and forth. Well, a lot of

Brooke and John: 14:26

arguments, I guess, that, uh, made

Terry: 14:28

money. So Brooke, what changed for you in terms of, you're sitting there arguing, like what's going through your mind going, no, I want this bike for you.

Brooke and John: 14:35

I think because we had. Put some work in first to, you know, establish that vision in that life by design. That now I understood why it meant what it meant to John, and I actually could see how it fit into our vision. And because we had completely changed the structure. Of our banking system that money was specifically sitting there for that it wasn't for anything else. It had a very specific job and I felt really good about that because I was able to clearly see that the house deposit was still going. It was still growing. But then I also knew that this was something that was really important to John. And so when, when he went and looked at the bike, I was in the ute and I watched him ride around on it and he looked so happy that I was like, we got to make this happen. this is the exact bike he wants. It looks just like the one that he used to have a few years ago. And for me, I was like, this is fully in alignment with what we're looking for and what I know he wants. And I know it'll make him really happy. And so I was trying to pull from everywhere. I'm like, take all my. Spending money. I don't care. Just take it. I want you to have it. Which, um, huge mind shift for me. I love that. I never would have done that before. And I think it's a really cool example that we reflect on pretty regularly to say, look how much. We've changed in how far we've come, understanding each other and also, yeah, being able to, you know, save for the future version of us, but then also not restrict ourselves in the now and still be able to have really cool experiences and use money as a tool to get more of what we value, which is wealth. How much of that

Terry: 16:17

knowing that you are handling the future plays into that and allows you to enjoy the money now as well? Because you obviously talked about. The value and seeing how much John cared about it. But how much was it like going, actually, I can see that this isn't coming at the cost of everything else. Right. This actually fits into everything. If you were to draw a pie chart, what is the percentage around how much that part matters? almost

Brooke and John: 16:37

all of it. almost. Yeah. Yeah, because I think before that was my sole focus, was thinking about the future and worrying about it. And, you know, I was raised. With parents that were so good with their money and really, really good at saving and spending in alignment with what they wanted. And I had that modeled for me all the way through. So I think in my mind, I was always thinking ahead, like, you know, we need to be set up for our future kids and this and that all needs to be taken care of. But because the structure didn't reflect it, I was always stressed and I always felt like I was playing catch up. But then when we were able to change that structure so that. Every dollar was, like, falling into one of the categories that we had set based on our life goals. I felt so much relief knowing that, you know, we are working towards that future that we've designed together. But we also, we can do that without it being, like you said, at the expense of the stuff that we want now. It's massive for me. Such a big stress, just taken off my shoulder to not have to think about that as much anymore. Because it's really clear in our accounts now what that looks like. And every time we allocate money to a certain thing, it stays there, and I know that it's, that's what it's going to be. And then we're using other things that we're allocating towards more fun things for us, we're using that too. So then it's, you know, filling John's cup, it's filling my cup. Um, and it's just a better kind of result for everyone.

Terry: 17:59

And I love that we're actually recording this today where this really big ambition that you've had as well, the house, is happening, and Jonah gets to see it happen for you too. Yeah. Like, I know it's for both of you, but this is a big part of what you wanted for you guys as a couple and for you to start a family, all these bigger things, right? Mm hmm. Definitely. It's just interesting how, the perception can be, you want this, it's coming at the cost of this, it's this or that, we can't do it, and it's because of the way the money's structured, the way we're looking at the money, and if you change the way you structure your money and you change the way you look at it. Then you can have that and you can have that. And you guys haven't even just had that and that. You've had a shit ton of morphine. Yeah.

Brooke and John: 18:36

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And I think one of the biggest things to just mention as well is that we haven't moved into positions or jobs where we're making absolute shit tons of money. Like we're making very average. Actually moved into a less paying. Yeah, that's actually right. John took a lower paying job because we. Um, and that time together was more important than, you know, him taking a job off in the mines or doing something where he was gonna be away most of the time. Yeah. And so even though we're making less money than we were before, we are doing so much more. Again, like I said, it's mind blowing to me how much we've achieved in the last 12 months and now It feels a little bit surreal. It's like the other night we went up to, Maperton and this really nice pub up near where we are. I had a really fancy, like, dinner and stuff, and I was just like, man, I feel super worldy. Yeah. Just sitting there like, I'm swallowing my wine.

Terry: 19:31

I think those kind of little moments are really important for you to acknowledge as well. Like you're sitting there with your wine, you're really enjoying it. Another one you guys pointed out to me was, when you're going over to Europe, hiring the expensive car, because you wanted to have a really good experience. What was that like for you to be able to actually go, No, we want that one. Because we want to have this epic experience.

Brooke and John: 19:53

I felt like I thought two ways, like really wealthy, but then also we been like, too cavalier with our cash. Irresponsible. Remember when we actually picked it up and we got inside and like, the doors lit up and there was like this beautiful display and we were both like. What? What are we doing? Quickly leave before they

Terry: 20:16

ask for a clap. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I seriously love it. This 12 months has been such a whirlwind, even just for me, like looking from the outside in. it's actually. You're almost unrecognizable in terms of like the conversation we had at the start. And I was just looking back in that life by design before this, before you told me that you just got the offer on the house. And I'm like, have a look at this. What has been the biggest aha moments for you guys? The biggest things you've kind of gone, Oh, hang on. We were getting that completely wrong. Once we've changed that, it changed everything. I think

Brooke and John: 20:46

one thing that really kind of. Highlighted, has highlighted for me is money versus time. That has been a massive one for me. Like, what am I willing to use my time for? And it's impacted the majority of my decisions. I think that's more like the reason why I took a job. Close to where we live,

Terry: 21:05

Was that after we did life by design? Was it that kind of came into focus for you? Yeah.

Brooke and John: 21:09

Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, it was. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Doing that. And then I was just like, had two options. I was like, and I'd go away to mines and make heaps of cash or, you know, be close to Enjoy the good times and actually Do what I want to do, progress where I want to progress kind of thing. So it's

Terry: 21:26

really impacted. Think about those as like parallel pathways that branch off in different directions, right? Oh yeah. These choices, they really do just pave different pathways. Like, where do you think you would end it up? Cause you're moving towards, you guys are moving towards obviously house, family, all that kind of stuff, right? You get into the job, but you're at the mines. That makes it so much harder, right? Well, hell

Brooke and John: 21:46

yeah. Yeah. And I'd just come from a, like a career that. It took me away from, and all that kind of stuff quite a bit. so I was like, you know, I don't want to actually continue that. And I was, but before we had done the life by design, I was like, Oh, you know, I'll just transition into the mines and heaps of cash. Cause that's what you do. It

Terry: 22:03

should have shows the cost of you not being across your money. You just think, well, I just got to do whatever I need to do. You get as much as I can. And that's going to make money means

Brooke and John: 22:11

it's, it's all good kind of thing.

Terry: 22:13

Yeah. And then think about what you would have missed out on in that last 12 months. Cause you just would have been. Yeah.

Brooke and John: 22:19

I wouldn't, we wouldn't be in the position we're in right now. Personal growth has kind of been this last year as well. It's been huge for me, kind of just transitioning out of defense and stuff like that. And then moving into like a civvy role as something different. It's been a huge, huge

Terry: 22:34

thing. That personal growth thing is just such a theme for you guys. Like I remember meeting you and you telling me that you're doing Uber on the weekends and a bit extra cash and you're listening to audio books and podcasts This guy's are awesome, I love it. That's been such a secret for you, I think, like you guys just backing yourselves in, backing each other in, doing it together. Have you always been like that aligned in terms of like, we're going after this, we're doing this part together? I think

Brooke and John: 22:59

from the get go, we've been very much, we're a team. You know, the money kind of situation kind of caused tension about that, but we always circled back to like, we're a team. That's the goal of this. Everything that we've done, you know, even leading up to the mentorship, all the big decisions that we've made, moving in together, yep. Me moving over to Australia, all of that happened because we had, um, I love that story.

Terry: 23:24

Please tell it. Please tell that story.

Brooke and John: 23:25

Okay, I'll try and tell a very quick version. essentially I lived in Australia for over a year before I met John. And, on my last full day in Australia, we met at a pub on Anzac Day. And, we hung out for a few hours, talked shit, and then, we said goodbye because I was heading back to Canada the, the next day. and then I think the following day, I was just sitting in the Botanical Gardens in Sydney, just chilling, waiting for my flight. And he messaged me and asked me if we could hang out. So he came and picked me up. We went to a pub in New town, hung out for a few hours. I guess that was our first date. Then he drove me to the airport. We said goodbye, and I flew back to Canada. So that was in April. Then fast forward to August, we kept talking. I didn't really think anything would come of it, but we kept talking, and then in August I flew out to Sydney. For three days to hang out with John, much to my mother's dismay. He told

Terry: 24:23

us. Just flew out. We're just hanging out in Sydney for a few days, so yeah.

Brooke and John: 24:27

Did not go over well, but anyway, so I did that and then I applied for uni over here and John found a place for us to live. And then in December, I moved back over and we moved in together after about five days of knowing each other in person. Oh, I love it. That's a pretty good indication, I think, of the fact that we have just been like, yep, we're a team, we're in this together from the very beginning. And that mentality has just carried throughout our relationship.

Terry: 24:53

Yeah, that's what I kind of pick up is like, when we know, we know. And when we go, we go.

Brooke and John: 25:00

I love that.

Terry: 25:02

That would be how I would describe you guys together. the first conversation we had, I was like, Wow. These guys are on. There you go. Like, there was no stuffing around with you guys. But I want to come back to this point, Brooke, because you've kind of mentioned this a few times in our conversations around the stress, the tension that the money was causing and the impact of the income pool and being able to separate out the deciding from the doing and having that money configured in a certain way. Can you just explain the impact or the change that made for you and why?

Brooke and John: 25:30

Look, I think before doing that. I felt like I needed to control everything and that I needed to be across everything. I needed to be, you know, crunching the numbers, moving the money around, making sure we stuck to a very strict amount of money on a weekly basis. And we never did because, you know, life doesn't work that way. So I constantly felt just like shit. I'm like, why can't I figure this out? So when you introduced that structure to us and when I actually saw it play out in our own banking system when we set it up, I was amazed at how much it helped me to give every dollar a job and then make those decisions as a team in like that monthly meeting for 15 minutes where you look forward to the whole month and go, okay, this is how money is going to move through our life this month. And then that's it. And then it just does it because it's where it needs to be and we've allocated it accordingly and there's no more of it needing to fit within a specific budget because we don't have a budget that's the exact same every single month. Obviously, we have certain estimations of how much we're spending on groceries or petrol or things like that, but on a month where we have a car service or we have an electricity bill or those things. I don't stress at all. I don't even notice when it's come out because we sat down on the first day of the month and we said, Oh, this month we need this much for the electricity. We need this much for the car service. And then, you know, we also have all this money to put towards the house and our next overseas trip. And, you know, planning for the future with like a future baby and all those kinds of things that's already been taken care of. And so for me, it just, it freed up so much of my bandwidth, so much of it, I did not realize how much space it was taking up in my brain until it wasn't anymore. And now I don't even really think about like, the day that we get paid, it doesn't even really cross my mind because it's all just going into the income pool. And I don't need to think about it until the first day of the next month when we're going to sit down, have that really intentional conversation. And John and I are doing it together. It's not me trying to control everything. It's not me trying to restrict John's spending, because I think that he shouldn't spend money on whatever this stupid thing is. Like, I don't know, going for beers or something? Like So Nicholas, but then also for me, like that's something that I really value is being able to just go and meet a friend for lunch and that's something I never would have done or if I did do it, I would feel horrible about it and I wasted 30 on a meal out where now I can go out and like recently was able to just like I just paid for my friend's lunch because I had allocated for that because I knew her birthday was coming up and I wanted to be able to do that and there was no stress. Bye. Bye. No anxiety, no guilt, it was just like, this is what this money is for, and this is elevating my life, and it is so cool.

Terry: 28:18

It's so interesting to me. I had a conversation two days ago with Nicola, one of our other members, and Nicola is a financial expert, mortgage broker, well across the money, all over it, right? And she wanted to come through because she wanted to get a really good understanding of what her clients might do if she was sending them through to us. And she was like, I just had no idea. How much of an impact that simple thing would do. I said to her, I was like, this is why we're on a mission to banish fucking personal finance prescriptions, because they make people feel like shit. They don't work for the longterm and they only work for the most dogmatic, obsessive people. And they're the people that push and pedal them. And everybody else just feels like shit. And it's funny to me, like, because it's almost like it sucks us into this rat race because we end up going, well, if we just make more money, then we won't worry about when the prescription falls flat. That's when we just, we just have to work harder and just make more money instead of just changing the way you manage your money to feel better about it. Right. It's like that whole lie. It's the, when I'm successful, then I'll be happy. How about you find a way to be happy. So you find success. that's actually the difference, right? Like you're actually finding enjoying the process and in that you have what you want. And it just so happens to be that all those other things that we talked about before, those achievements that you talked about. They're the byproduct. That's the byproduct of you getting happy through the process because you're not trying to escape anything. It's just so big and I think, you know, you see people come in and it's all focused on investing, thinking investing is going to be the panacea, it's going to fix everything for me because we're going to grow our money super fast and like, you just change the way you manage your money. You're going to feel pretty good about money and that's actually what you want more money for anyway. you can see this people who have very little, people who have a lot, same thing. Yeah. Same thing. I know that was a little bit of a rant, but I just think that's such a really good example of the impact or the discomfort that the way that you're using your money, the way that your money is structured, the way that you're viewing it can create in your life and it's so fixable so fast. Like how long did it take you to fix

Brooke and John: 30:07

that? Not long. I mean, actually setting up the structures took I don't know. An afternoon. Yeah. An afternoon. Yeah.

Terry: 30:14

An afternoon. I don't know. Like it wasn't, you know, let's not pretend you, you love the whole process. Like you're a little bit stressed. There was a moment in the car park where you're a bit worried about it, wasn't it? A

Brooke and John: 30:23

few tears were shed in the car park, for sure, feeling like it was You're like, oh no, I'm

Terry: 30:27

loving this process that I've already got. I'm, it's ruining my life, but let's stick to it.

Brooke and John: 30:33

Yeah. Yeah. John helped push me through that one. I know it definitely hasn't been, you know, just smooth sailing all the way through, but I think the payoff, like you said, of having this better way of managing our money has just been such a game changer, even to think of a more recent example. With the tools that we've learned in the program, one of them being the forecasting where you can actually look forward and see the next 12 months and what that looks like. We were wanting to go to Canada to visit my grandma and we were thinking, okay, you know, maybe in March or April next year we'd be able to do it. And so we sat down and we mapped out, okay, what would it look like if we took the leave now, if we went now, because we just did, like we mentioned that huge trip to Europe. So I don't have a lot of annual leave. We neither do. And so we looked at, okay, what would that actually look like if we didn't have, say, that one full paycheck coming in that month? How could we spread that out? Or what could that look like? As soon as we realized, oh, we could still make it work, we booked the tickets, like 10 minutes later. And before that decision would have taken us, well, potentially wouldn't have done it. Because it would have been an emotional forecast of, well, yes, that make this work. We can't go a whole fortnight without having pay come in. That's, that's ridiculous. Yeah. But when we actually looked at it and looked at the numbers and saw it, we realized, okay, you know, it means we might not be investing that month or we might not be putting towards these other goals, but for us. And for me especially, the decision to be able to go see my grandma again was a really easy one. And then when we saw that it was actually going to work. And it was cheaper to go that time. Yeah, that's true. That was a big one. It was just like, could we go a bit later? It's like, yeah, but it's twice as expensive. And we're just like, Oh, okay, well maybe let's see if it works if we leave sooner and take the hit with the, you know, no annual leave. And it just works out that it's, we just play around with what we're going to be putting towards our goals because we've used it for this goal. Yeah. And it just all fell into place. Yeah.

Terry: 32:26

It's really cool. That's to me, an example of you controlling and managing your money rather than having the money manage you. Right? Absolutely. Because if the money's managing you, what do you do? Well, surely we can't. Take this trip now. We just got back from Europe. That's just you feeling like you shouldn't do it. Not really thinking at all. Just that's not right, is it? But I'm looking at your life by design here, Brooke. And it's like, grandma is like number one on connections. And it's like going back, learning her recipes, getting to know her friends, taking her on some trips, reading and sewing. And I remember the conversation when you were kind of talking me through it. You're like, I just don't know, like how much of an opportunity I'm going to have to do this. And I think it's back to your point, John, around time, you understanding the value of time and that as the asset to manage, like it just makes it so much clearer, doesn't it? that's the thing that I care about. That's the thing I'm optimizing for. This is the tool that I need to manage to get it. So I manage the tool to make it happen. Yeah.

Brooke and John: 33:19

It really sobers you up to understand how important time is.

Terry: 33:23

Yeah. And did you say that you're heading back, Brooke, to see her

Brooke and John: 33:26

again? Yeah. Yeah. So we're going in four weeks today and we were only going to go for. Two weeks, but then when we did that forecast, we were like, oh, we could do three weeks and so we're going for three weeks instead,

Terry: 33:40

it sounds like you got this magic money printer or something,

Brooke and John: 33:43

I know I'm wrong. Yeah.

Terry: 33:45

Think about this though, like you've just got accepted for this house, this offer, right? So you're moving into this new phase. You're not stressed about that. You're, you're actually just like, yep, that's fine. We've got that handled already. These are all things we've covered. that's just such a different experience, I think, to most folks in terms of like, oh, okay. Fun's over. We've got the mortgage now. Amazing. So what have you guys learned, like through this process, the biggest things you've learned about yourselves?

Brooke and John: 34:10

I think I've learned. That there's more than one way to make something happen, and it's okay to explore and try, and the first thing might not work, but just keep going. That's something that's been a big, I guess, unlearning for me from school, from being someone who achieved really high grades, was really, really involved in the school system. I fit perfectly in the box in terms of what you're looking for, for, you know, academic excellence or whatever. But the cost of that was that I started to really fear making a mistake or making the wrong move or doing something that would jeopardize my future. I don't know, whatever that looks like. And so this whole process of learning how to manage my money and how to use it as a tool, you know, it hasn't been perfect. We've done certain things that been like, Oh, okay. You know, next month we're going to change that. But I think it's, it's allowed me to give myself permission to. Make those little mistakes and try things and try different solutions and see what works for us and that it doesn't have to be one specific way that it can be whatever I want it to be. And that can change too, you know, it doesn't have to be the same all the way through the process. And that's been something I didn't really expect to learn through money management, but it's really given me a new push to get outside my comfort zone and try things that. I might not find easy and that I might screw up, but that's okay. And yeah, just keep iterating and, and course correcting and you'll still get to the end goal. It might not have been exactly the same way that you thought, but that doesn't make it any less of a success in the long run.

Terry: 35:49

What I think is, it's just an interesting observation and I think it's, it's a recommendation for me as well. And it's something I try to do, is just act in the complete opposite of what I think I should do in the moment. Because it's the best way, I think, to flex your identity and to realize that your identity is just a story. Like, you've made the fucking thing up. And people talk to you about what you were like, and you believed them. The little things we talked about in this conversation, so. John, buy the bike. I want you to buy the bike. Let's make that up. That's you acting against your identity and realizing the world is not going to cave in. Let's get the expensive car, because we can, and let's have that experience. Same thing. That's you acting against your identity. And then you just kind of alluded to this, but like this big shift that you're making in your career as well. Towards writing and your love for writing. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that, too?

Brooke and John: 36:35

Yeah, absolutely. So, something that's come out of this whole experience of doing the mentorship was in that Life by Design I had written down or had said, spoken to you, Terry, about wanting to be able to get paid or to monetize this skill that I have of writing but not really knowing how to do that or what that would look like and then over the past 12 months I've actually had the amazing opportunity to directly with you guys and work on writing with you and You Just kind of opened myself up to this whole new world again, realizing that it's okay to do things differently and that it's okay to, to mess it up or to not be perfect at it right from the start. But you

Terry: 37:12

invested in yourself pretty heavily here.

Brooke and John: 37:14

I did. I did. Yeah. That was a really cool thing that happened too, where there was this opportunity to invest in this 10, 000. Ghostwriting Academy, and John was really supportive, and I think it's benefited both of us for sure, that there's so much in that course, but I never would have done that before, I never would have bet on myself that way, because again, I would have thought that I needed to fit into the cookie cutter, like standard way of doing things of way of making money and staying in your full time employment job. So that was huge for me. And again, being able to yeah, challenge or go against my identity, try something different. And it's had a huge payoff in building my confidence and my willingness to just be like, let's just give it a go. Let's see what happens and it'll work out probably.

Terry: 37:59

It's critical, right? Like it has, it has I hear this language pattern a little bit sometimes with folks to justify why they're not going to do something. Oh, that's just not what I do. And I always think to myself, is it this about what you're doing not working? Isn't it you that needs to change? So you should go against what you normally do, not actually justify what you're doing already. And I think it's hard to kind of break out of that because it, I guess, you know, it, it's just so important to do it. I think like, because you just need to have and collect that evidence that no, the world's not going to fall in. And actually. Like I think about what we said before, right? When we know, we know, when we go, we go. think about the rewards you guys have gotten from doing that together. You know, John backing Brook in to be able to do that course as well. talk a little bit more too about what you're doing too, mate, with the blogging and building up that platform too.

Brooke and John: 38:45

Yeah, so I recently started a website which is very kind of Come out of nowhere kind of thing. I usually make, made a living working with my hands. I still kind of do, I guess. You still do, yeah. But it's more like manual kind of work. And um, I just decided to have a go at creating a website and writing blogs about dogs and dog training and stuff like that, which I'm quite passionate about. Let's plug the website. What is it? It's called leadandcollar. com. Leadandcollar.

Terry: 39:13

com. That's pretty bloody good actually. Yeah.

Brooke and John: 39:16

Who made that up? I did. Oh yeah, come on. Yeah, that's good. I was chasing the com kind of thing, and that was available, so I was just like, yep, buy that one. Yeah. But yeah, so I'd been trying my hand at writing blogs, and All that kind of stuff, which is, been a steep learning curve for me, but it's been really, really cool just to, to know, again, what you've been talking about. It's just like, you know, that's not what I do. It's just like, well, actually I'm trying this and I'm enjoying it. So yes, this is what I do. It's just

Terry: 39:45

interesting too, though, like you just move in that direction, right? So it might not end up that you do exactly the thing you're doing now, but you pick up like this 5 percent where you go, you know, there was something about the process of building that site, or even there was this like this SEO thing I got really interested in. Yeah. And you just keep pulling on that thread. It's just, but you, it just doesn't work if you don't make the first call and then move, cause you just. You're right every day, but you just don't go anywhere.

Brooke and John: 40:08

Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the biggest things. It's just like the things that I've learned whilst, you know, developing the website, I can see other areas that I can potentially move into and things like that. So yeah, it's, it's really exciting to kind of, you know, take that step back and be like, actually, I'm going to try my hand at that and see what happens.

Terry: 40:26

Yeah. And Brooke, the same thing for you, right? So talk a little bit more too about how your work. Your actual, the job that you do is starting to shift in terms of the time and what you're actually spending your time on there too, based on what you've learned through investing for yourself and then the moves that you made for opportunities that came up.

Brooke and John: 40:42

Yeah, I think, you know, since I started this whole writing process with you guys, just really opened my eyes to. Um, different ways that I could monetize this skill and move into more working for myself and an opportunity came up with, the CEO of the company that I work for where I pitched an idea and he really liked it and I followed up and set up a meeting and formally pitched it to him and one of the other, senior members of the team. have now moved into not a full day, but about half a day a week. I am writing within my full time job as a speech pathologist. Again, I never thought that I would have the opportunity to do that. And I think, well, obviously the reason that I did is because I took action and I just went for it. And again, was okay with whatever kind of happened as the outcome, but. It worked out and now I'm having another opportunity to learn some really valuable skills and to work with a really big company with over 500 employees and see how I can implement my, my skills that way and be able to reach more people and. Yeah, it's just been so many opportunities that I never would have seen coming before I kind of opened myself up to all of this, and who knows where it's going to take me in the future. I'm hoping it'll be Oh, it'll

Terry: 41:56

keep going. Look, as soon as you declare it, and if it's absolutely something that you want, you will assemble your reality to make it happen, because that is actually how it always happens. So it's just a process, just a process. And you're just really just kind of seeing the start of it. I'd say, that's what I'm like, that's what I'm excited about guys. This has been a really helpful chat. I would just love to ask you a couple of questions just on advice. if you're coaching yourselves and you're feeling stuck, you're feeling like you're living too small. How would you coach yourselves now knowing what you know on the other side of this? I guess

Brooke and John: 42:27

like. Get really clear on what you want. I think that's at the crux of it all, is like, if you don't know what you want. Yeah. Forget the money for a second. And before you even think about that, figure out what you want your life What's important to you. To look like what's important to you. Yeah. Is it flying overseas to see your grandma? Is it going around Australia? Is it Being able to visit every single cafe in your town, like whatever that is. I like that one. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how big or small it is, but you have to get clear on what you want first. And then. If you have a partner doing that process together and learning about what the other person wants and it's not about needing to have the exact same vision. You want, I guess, like your bigger picture, like if you're thinking of like a house or kids or whatever, you want to obviously be aligned on that, but it's not that every single thing has to be the exact same. And you know, I'm not really interested in dirt bikes, but I'm super happy for John to be able to do that more. I want him to be able to do that more because we've taken the time to have those conversations. And understand where the other person is coming from and what's really important to them. And then once you're super clear on that, then you just apply that to the money and make sure that your, your systems reflect that.

Terry: 43:39

Just thinking of seeing myself in the shoes of somebody who doesn't know what you know right now, they're going to be hearing that saying, but you guys did know what you want. You wanted a house. And so why didn't that work? How would you answer that? It's a great question.

Brooke and John: 43:53

I don't know. It's a hard one. I can help you out here. I

Terry: 43:55

think I know the answer. I think it was such a narrow thing. It didn't necessarily reflect the full sort of set of, of your values, who you were. And so it was so myopic on this one kind of one thing, but you actually just couldn't see how it fit in with the rest of your lives or how other parts of your life fit in with this house thing as well. Yeah. And because of that, the way you structured your money, the way you manage your money, the way you talked about your money was all focused on. And around this one thing and just like ignored everything else. Yeah. So it just made it

Brooke and John: 44:22

harder. Yeah. Cause those things were still there under the surface. They don't go away. Yeah. We weren't acknowledging them and we weren't. allowing them to take part in our plan and our vision. And we thought that we needed to, yeah, focus all of our attention on the house. But then when we inevitably wanted to do other things, it then came at the price of us feeling guilty about it, which didn't really work.

Terry: 44:47

What about for folks who feel like they have to have career figured out and just have like a set direction before they even start to think about any of this money stuff? What would you say to those guys? I

Brooke and John: 44:57

think I would relate it to The whole concept of, of time that, that John said that wherever you are in your relationship right now, whether you're, you know, younger or middle aged, the time that you have right now is finite. And the life stage that you're in right now is finite. And at some point that window will close or that door will close and it won't open again. And so I guess what you have to consider is what are you willing to Pay, what are you willing to, are you willing to pay with your time to try and figure it out somewhere down the track when everything is perfect or the, I guess, like, if you don't do it, then you're going to get further down the track and still not have it figured out and potentially still be thinking the same way that you are now or living in the same kind of restrictive mindset that you're in now. And it doesn't need to be that way. You can make huge changes. In your mindset and in your structure and in your vision before all of that other stuff is like perfectly set out because you'll probably never actually get to that perfect point you'll think that you'll get you know it's that when then fallacy of like when I have the then I'll be everything will be perfect and it'll be easy but That's probably not going to happen. So if you can start to figure it out now, then you can enjoy the process no matter where you end up going and, have a lot more fun and use money in a much more fun way as you go through. Yeah.

Terry: 46:19

I think it's interesting too. The when then is a really good call out. When I've got my career sorted, then I can think clearly about the rest of my life. Yeah. What if you got your life really clear so that your career came into focus? Which is essentially kind of what's happening for you guys, right? Yeah, a lot of upset. You do it the other way. It works pretty good because it actually can help you fund the next thing, fund the next thing, fund that experience. And you're learning about yourself all the way through. But if you're just kind of struggling with restricting on the money side of things, you don't give yourself those opportunities to see who you are in different contexts, to try different things and fail, or to figure things out and learn new things, meet new people. Because you're just too focused, myopically, on this kind of one thing. The last one, I reckon, is like, the big assumption here is, yeah, but this takes heaps of time, heaps of effort, and you've got to be super smart to do this, right? Right or wrong? Very wrong. Why do you think it's so misunderstood? it's exactly how I would have thought, you know? Rewind to 20. 22, version of me. Same thing. These people are just super clever. They've just got their shit together. They're just naturally way better. Yeah, it's

Brooke and John: 47:21

just like an easy kind of excuse to tell yourself to be like, you know, they're just super smart. I'm not super smart, so I'll just keep cruising. Because it's

Terry: 47:30

uncomfortable. It helps you to not deal with the discomfort. Yeah, yeah. I don't think

Brooke and John: 47:34

like a lot of people are guilty of it. I definitely was. I'm just like, oh yeah, but that person's, you know, really smart or really fit or yeah, whatever it is, insert thing. it just gives you an out. As opposed to kind of, taking ownership of it. This

Terry: 47:47

is where I think the, really the importance here is, of really understanding the value of tools, right? It's not like you guys have all of a sudden, learned a couple of things and all of a sudden you're like, frickin a beautiful mind and you can sit here and have these conversations and numbers flow between your minds and you're like, it all makes sense, let's do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brooke and John: 48:05

Right? The stars

Terry: 48:06

align, yes. Right? You're sitting there, you're using tools. To do the heavy lifting, to do the number crunching, to help you to do clear thinking so that you can make very good decisions together, right? It's not you, all of a sudden, picking up this whole new skill set. You just need to be an expert in who you are, what you care about, and you can make everything else work, yeah? Yeah.

Brooke and John: 48:24

When you go through the process, it's not about knowing every single thing from the very first day. You learn a little bit and then I think the most important thing is that you apply that right away. So you're not just consuming information for months and months and months like, Oh, now I know lots about this. I know lots about this. It's like, no, you learn a little bit of relevant information and then you put that into practice with the tools that you guys have created, like you said, that do the heavy lifting. But then because you've taken action, you get feedback and then you get to close that feedback loop and then you get to try again. So every single month. We're getting a little bit tighter on exactly what that looks like for us and what we need to be doing differently, and if you're collecting data all the way through, and then through that, you're actually learning the skills that you need to learn, but you don't need to know it all on day one, you just need to have, like you said, the conviction behind it, you need to understand who you are and what you want. And then let the tools do their thing and start having those conversations and use the data to inform your future decisions. And every time you do that, you get better at making those decisions. And then making bigger decisions becomes easier too, because you've just had that repetition. You've had that constant feedback of like, okay, we can do this. We can do this. So then all of a sudden, you know, booking flights overseas can be something that's done in a single afternoon as opposed to a month. Long period of going back and forth can we can't we should we shouldn't we it's just now we have the tool here We can see exactly how it's gonna work. So let's make it happen and then you do

Terry: 49:55

Hello, what are you guys looking forward to in the near future? Obviously, you got the harm you're moving towards this You're going back to Canada to see Ryan, again, what's exciting you about what you're looking forward at?

Brooke and John: 50:04

I think me is doing reno's on the new house. Already? I love it. Yeah, John. What are you gonna do? What do you got planned? New wood floors, deck around, around the whole outside, put a shed in the backyard. I can't wait.

Terry: 50:19

So much. You just stopped yourself from talking about the rest of it. I know there's a big long list isn't there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brooke's right here guys. I love it. We're going to do another life fight as well. I didn't come back to this. What about you, Brooke? What are you looking forward to?

Brooke and John: 50:32

I am looking forward to pushing out more with the skills that I'm developing outside of my full time job and looking at, you know, in the next 12 months, where am I going to be in terms of, yeah, how much time am I spending on those projects versus Yeah. Working full time, we've been talking a lot about where we want to be in 12 months and we have some, we've set some pretty aggressive goals for ourselves, which means we're going to have to step into even again, shed these identities that we have right now so that we can make those things happen. I'm really excited to see, yeah, what's possible for us. Because again, if we had had this conversation a year ago, or if you had told me a year ago that we were going to be on the podcast. Being, like, an example couple for others, I would have been like, shut the fuck up, like, what? You were like a celebrity to me that I was like, I just listened to every podcast episode and was like, I just want to learn this stuff so bad. And then you

Terry: 51:26

got to know me and you're like, oh, what a disappointment.

Brooke and John: 51:29

Exactly. But now to be sitting here 12 months later and to be talking about all these things that we've made happen this year. Yeah. I just can't believe it. And so when I think forward to where we're going to be in 12 months time, I mean. I really, I, I don't even know, I think some of the things that are probably going to happen for us, but I'm really excited to, to move through that process and to continue learning and yeah, see what happens. It's just such a clear, a clear picture of exactly what we want to achieve. Yeah. It doesn't feel like an if anymore. It's just, a when.

Terry: 52:02

Yeah. Yeah. I was about to wrap this up, but I just think there's, there's one little thread I want to pull on. And you just said. We've set some pretty aggressive targets, and we've been having a lot of conversations about why it's so important to think really big. Do you want to talk to that just, just kind of briefly, because I think this is a secret for you guys. You didn't half ass this. And you haven't done that from the start. You really actually just did go, I'm not going to say what I think is safe. I'm just going to say

Brooke and John: 52:24

what I want. Having that kind of honest conversation, be like. What do you actually want? And for me, letting Brooke know, that's what I want. that, right there. Yeah. It's like, oh, okay, cool. And it's not like, oh, no, it's just, you know, this thing just, just before what I actually want. I'll be happy with this. Oh, I'd be just happy if I, yeah. I'd be happy with it. It'd be fine if I didn't have it. But it's like, no, that's what I want. Yes. How do we make that happen? Yeah. When does that happen? Yeah. And I think it's so important to let yourself really declare those wants and to go all out and to be like, if I could have it exactly how I want it, this is what my life would look like. And then to be like, Cool. That's what we're going to do then. And even though right now, these goals that we've been setting, they feel very far fetched. At some layer, I'm like, we could make it happen because other people have done it, but it still feels very, very outside of what's real for our lives right now. But it's so exciting because I think if you don't do that, then you kind of, you're almost restricted because you're thinking of these goals. In terms of your current way of thinking and your current identity. But if you put yourself so far out into something that doesn't even feel real, then you have no choice but to assume a different identity of somebody that is able to do that. And then once you've done that, I think you're already well on your way. I think, yeah, I think you're right there because it's like, when we did our first Life by Design, I think my goals, A lot of them were what I wanted, but then they're, they've changed because Yeah, because you've got different evidence now. Yeah, yeah, we've headed in a direction. It's like, that's what we want. But as we've gone through, our little, adventure, it's just been, actually, that's not really that important to me. Well, not that it's not important, but we can do so much more. Yeah. Both

Terry: 54:10

those things. That's what we see a lot of,

Brooke and John: 54:11

right? It's like, you know, shed that. That's actually more important. I thought that was like a thing that I really wanted, but actually it's like, maybe I didn't want that or, or I do want that and also I want that

Terry: 54:21

other thing. It's critical. I think like the evidence you get along the way, we set ours out as well. And I look back and I go, you know, probably like 75 percent of what I set out last year is pretty, pretty ambitious goals I achieved and across all these different areas of my life. Do I consider that to be a failure that I didn't do it all? No. Does it matter whether I did it on that timeframe or a different timeframe? Not really. Like the point is that you've got to have a clear direction and there's Dan Sullivan, I think he said this, he's like, the best way to make your present better is to make your future bigger. Yeah. Now you've got something, you've got a reference point to guide towards. And if you don't have that, you're just drifting, literally just drifting through life, living life on default instead of by design, which is why we call that session life by design. Yeah. And you know, I'm super pumped to see where you guys can go with this, because the, the identities that you're going to build, like what you've already done, who you've already become, I'm sure it probably feels different. You tell me if I'm wrong, but there's probably some friends now that kind of feel foreign to you because they're just not even in the same reality anymore. Yeah,

Brooke and John: 55:17

I think that that's another thing that, I can't remember what episode it was, but you With Charlie Ballard? With the five people that you spend When I listened to that episode, I was just like, holy shit, that really just Yeah. That was profound. I was just like, the five people that you hang around are, you know, some of

Terry: 55:33

what you'll become. It's true. It just drags you. It just drags you in that direction. And I think that's the value of community, right? that's why we say to folks, get involved in these meetups. Come and meet each other. See what you're all doing. Even if you don't have a quest or anything like that, just turn up, say g'day. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Guys, thank you so much for coming back on the show. I know we've had a couple of technical difficulties. But I really do appreciate the time, the patience. Just before we wrap this up, Brooke, there might be some people that are listening that are kind of thinking and wondering, like If they can work with you with the ghostwriting, even learn, even learn from what you're doing as well. Where can people reach out to know more about what you're doing and, and potentially, work with you with ghostwriting and copywriting? I

Brooke and John: 56:10

would say the best way would just be to hit me up on LinkedIn, just Brooke Dawson. That'll be, yeah, great way to connect. I'd love to chat and see if there's any way that I can help, but also love to just share my journey around, around writing and anyone's interested. Yeah. I'd love to talk.

Terry: 56:27

Yeah. Same with the community as well. I think there's a bunch of folks in the community I reckon that would really love to probably cheer you off when it, when it comes to even just moving that direction. So guys, don't be shy, reach out. I mean, we can all help each other when it comes to this stuff. And something I want to promote more a lot as well is just to actually ask for help. I need help with this. I'm looking to move in this direction. Who knows anybody that can do this? Like I've seen businesses start in the community from doing this. Yeah. They're doing really well now. So this I want, I want to see more of in 2024, just kind of reaching out, sharing more of these ideas and getting to know each other. So guys, again, appreciate it. And I'm great to see you both and chat soon.

Brooke and John: 57:01

Thanks, Terry. Talk to you soon.