In a very different ep, Mitch hosts Ryan and Terry on share what they’ve learned about personal transformation and change building their business and helping others achieve their goals.
You’ll hear the untold story of the business in detail they’ve never really talked about. And how you can use these insights to engineer powerful personal change in your own life.
Expect to learn:
If you want to know how to tap into your primal programming to back yourself and make big things happen in your life, this episode is for you.
Join the Private Podcast Community
Click here to access free courses and trainings, build new habits, and connect with us and others on the journey to financial self reliance.
Other links 👇
Money mentorship:
Click here to start putting what you've been learning into practice.
Corporate program:
Click here to find out more about our workplace program
Follow us on Instagram:
Click here to see behind the scenes of our business and learn more about personal finance in bite-sized chunks.
In a very different ep, Mitch hosts Ryan and Terry on share what they’ve learned about personal transformation and change building their business and helping others achieve their goals.
You’ll hear the untold story of the business in detail they’ve never really talked about. And how you can use these insights to engineer powerful personal change in your own life.
Expect to learn:
If you want to know how to tap into your primal programming to back yourself and make big things happen in your life, this episode is for you.
Join the Private Podcast Community
Click here to access free courses and trainings, build new habits, and connect with us and others on the journey to financial self reliance.
Other links 👇
Money mentorship:
Click here to start putting what you've been learning into practice.
Corporate program:
Click here to find out more about our workplace program
Follow us on Instagram:
Click here to see behind the scenes of our business and learn more about personal finance in bite-sized chunks.
Good idealist. Now this is Terry and I want to start this episode with a bit of an apology. If you're a regular listener to this podcast, you might've noticed that we haven't published in about a month. And the reason why is it's actually my fault. I've been sitting on this episode. For a couple of weeks now, really, and kind of hesitating and procrastinating and not knowing whether or not it's a good idea to, to put this out into the world. But we've been doing a lot of work with Mitch on some big changes we've been making in the business and a really a clear new direction. In terms of where we're going and where we'll be in the next 12, 24, 36 months. As a business. And as part of that, we had some really in-depth conversations with Mitch about the origins of the business, the brand, and kind of understanding the journey that we took to get here. And at the end of those conversations, he kind of said to us, we can't just leave this here. People need to actually understand what you guys have gone through and what you've experienced in order to be able to make this happen. And, uh, my challenge to him was I don't want it to be, self-serving I want it to be valuable for the audience. So we actually did this a couple of times, just to make sure, hopefully that there is a lot of take homes here for you as a listener. And my sort of thing to him was, let's make sure we're very explicit about, you know, what the list is going to get out of this and make sure that we actually hit on that promise. And I really hope we have. so I guess that's enough for me. I want to get straight back into the episode, but I would love to hear whether this has been helpful for you and whether this did give you. You know, something to go away with and something to use for your own personal life and to be able to, I guess, achieve what you want to achieve and go after what you want to go after. I would love you to let me know, sorry for in the community. drop me a note. Uh, or if you get the email and you listen to it off the email and just reply to that email. Let me know. I am really keen to get feedback on this episode and I want to know what you took away from it. Sorry, let's jump into
Mitch:hello legends, welcome to a very different episode of the WTF Podcast, it's Mitch here. Tex, Ryan, welcome to your own podcast. Thank you, mate. What a weird, wonderful voice
Ryan:to start off with. It's not what I'm used to.
Mitch:Don't worry. It feels just as weird for me. it's lovely to host you. Why am I hosting you? We recently caught up and dug into your story. I am doing some work with you guys to understand what it is that has made the Cashflow Co so unique. And ultimately I've been on the other side of the coaching experience and I know what you guys actually help people with. There are so many layers of your story that haven't yet been told that need to be told.
Ryan:Why do they need to be told?
Mitch:That's a very good question. They need to be told because so much of your story has actually shaped out in what you teach. And it's really, really clear that the journey that you guys have been on. Is a journey that you ultimately help other people walk through. And we need to codify what you guys have actually gone through because the missing ingredient that no one talks about in achievement is ultimately what we're here to unpack. Why do I know what I want to do, but I'm not backing myself to do it. You guys have backed yourself to do it. All right. And it's worth unpacking how the hell you've done that because that's what everyone wants. They know what they want to achieve, but they're not doing it.
Terry:So we're to help them. I feel a bit naked.
Ryan:And I think this is going to be a pretty gritty episode too, by the sounds.
Terry:What
Ryan:specifically
Mitch:are we going to cover? So what we're specifically going to cover is the untold story of the cashflow code. All right. The warts and all version. We're also going to tap into the six step sequence that codifies progress and success. We're going to cover the nuclear energy that you have to tap into to back yourself and make big things happen, how you guys have used that in your own lives and ultimately how you use it to help people achieve their financial goals every single day.
Terry:Man, that sounds like a fair bit to cover. If there was a big promise for this episode and you're listening to this, what would you say it is for the person who's wondering, should I keep listening or not? What is the promise of this episode then? We are going to bottle
Mitch:how to tap into your primal programming to go after your big goals and dreams and actually make them happen.
Terry:That's a big promise. It is. I love it.
Mitch:Well, let's get into it. So your story, there's a few layers of this that haven't been told and we need to tell them. You guys went through some valleys here and there was some pretty hectic energy that we need to cover. There was another member of this Cashflow Co. crew that is no longer here. I think
Terry:we should start there. It's interesting. So, I had obviously met Ryan through, you know, getting help, getting financial advice and I was introduced to Ryan through the third member. And It was sort of in the development of those relationships that at some point we decided that, there could be a good combination here because I'd sort of got really interested in this money stuff. I started studying financial planning. I actually, I did complete three units of a master's in financial planning before I realized I didn't want to do financial planning. But, that was sort of on the pathway where I guess we got talking and these guys were encouraging me saying, Oh man, you'd be great in this space to be able to sort of talk through these things and, and sort of. Get people engaged in these ideas and, humanize money basically. And so I was really encouraged by that. And then we started having conversations about how we could build something for ourselves. And might as you might remember, we had a Slack group called change the color or something. I reckon
Ryan:it was the dojo first,
Terry:wasn't it? There was, there was a dojo one, which was more like a professional development one, where we're kind of sharing ideas and books and resources. But then when we decided to potentially go and build something or make something for ourselves, there was another one, which was like, Change to color, which the, the idea was like, if the world's black and white right now, what would it look like in color? It
Ryan:was a Robert Greene, 50 cent book. I reckon he made his reference around being on your own terms doing it your own ways, like this change to color where most people are in black and white right now. I think that's where it came from. Yeah. Yeah.
Terry:That's right. So anyway, so we had this conversation happening and we were talking about how we could make it happen. And. And you guys are obviously working in a business at the time, and where we landed on was that we would like to buy a local version of that business and go into financial planning, build a financial planning practice for ourselves, but do it our way, do it differently, and hopefully change things for the better within the system of financial planning. and there was a few wrinkles there, so Milo, you pick it up from there, mate.
Ryan:Yeah, well, I think, you know, the exploration of buying a business, you know, we probably had a fair bit of luck along the journey. You know, there's been a lot of hard work, but there's a fair bit of luck, and the luck actually probably comes in the things that didn't work out, that redirected us on to better paths. And I think this was probably one of the biggest examples of that. You know, initially it was exploring the buying of a business, a separate business that, you know, there was someone looking to exit and, you know, had a client base that wanted to, to move off. So it was kind of a bit of exploration around a couple of different businesses, but also The business we were working in, there was an arm of that, that as a group, as a trio, we kind of explored, could we buy this? And, just kind of went through that exercise, I guess, and process of going, what could this look like? You know, what would it cost and figuring out the financials and also that process of figuring out like, what do we want to do with it? Where do we want to take it? And, Working through that and, the owner of that business offered the other, other part of the trio, a direct opportunity that wasn't inclusive of all.
Terry:Don't skip through that part though, because we actually went to the owner and made an offer first. And then the owner went around us to the third member and said, fuck those guys. How about me and you go into business? And straight away, that bloke just jumped straight on the offer. Didn't even consider it for a second. Just was like, Oh yeah, I'm out. We're good to go. This actually turned out to be a pretty important moment for us. I think it was an idea until that moment. And that's for me anyway, that was a moment it became like, nah, I'm going to make it happen now. I don't know, I'm not talking for you, mate, but it did give me a bit of a kind of kick up the ass. Yeah, for
Ryan:sure. And like, it's an interesting thing where I guess we would, we thought that, you know, something needs to change, something needs to be done better. And, I think he somewhat agreed with that, but then, you know, when push came to shove, it was like, oh no, the certain safe way was a better way. Whereas we were kind of looking at now we want to change things and we want to go down a different path of kind of shaking things up. And so, That kind of bound us together a little bit, made us go, wow, fuck, that's kind of hung us out to dry, and especially me.
Terry:What hung
Ryan:you out to dry? I was working in the business, you know, so then it was just a ticking clock going, well, well, I can't stick around here anymore. And there was a bunch of other, other things kind of happening as well and dramas, you know, in the nature of that business, but yeah, that kind of turned into, you know, I was like, all right, I'm out, you know, I've put in the resignation and then. Only about maybe that might've been like three or four days left of that four week notice period. And I got called into the office and, had been shut out of the computer and didn't have access to anything. It was just said, Hey, you just got to go straight to see this, see the owner of this business. And as I got in there, basically what he'd done or his, his wife had done actually, I think it was, had gone through all of my emails, trying to find something, trying to find, wrongdoing somewhere and, there was an email that I'd sent myself like six months earlier where I I didn't have a work computer so I had to send myself something. It's my personal computer to prepare it for the, an 8am appointment the next day. And they considered it intellectual property, what I'd sent to myself for preparation, which is a stretch of the imagination, but it was just enough to go, well, you've done something wrong here. You got to go, you got to leave. You got to leave right now. You know, I got into the office at 9am. I was like, no, don't finish the day, get your stuff, go. You know, I think it was one of those trigger points where I'm kind of lucky that, you know, I knew it was a scare. It was a, you know, don't fuck around, don't fuck around with me. You know, don't come to your clients. Don't don't mess with our business type thing as a kind of a signal to the future more so around what we were going to do next. And, that was just like a. I'm glad that I didn't get stuck in a state of fear by being like, fuck, I really fucked up. I was like, wow, I can't believe you did that. And just showing a spotlight on me, like, I guess how I wanted to be able to shape culture and, you know, shape a business setting and just a work setting, you know, how people kind of work. It really just showed me, ah, that's not how it's done. You know, I never want to be like that or do things that way and put a B in the bottom, I would say. Might sum it up. Yeah, man, I
Terry:was incredibly petty and this was what was so interesting, this person had positioned themselves as like the grandfather and the, you know, the mentor, the guy who's out there and gonna, you know, really. Help you out and that sort of thing. But when push comes to shove, people really do reveal their character. And these two people in particular revealed themselves at key moments. And I'm really thankful for it, to be honest, because imagine getting caught up. With those folks in business in that way, I think it would have been a massive disaster on both cases, but it also did create a sense of like, fuck this. We're going to do it. We're going to make it happen. And prior to that, it was all theoretical and academic was all good ideas. And you know, one of the big insults that we always joke about, mate, was, you know, we're sort of throwing out these ideas and say, we want to do this. And we're going to do this when we change things up and that sort of thing. This business owner, when he realized that he wasn't going to be able to control the whole situation, started to make sort of these statements that are designed to sort of create and see doubt in us. And one of the statements that he said that we always laugh at know, there's a lot of people with a lot of ideas. He'll, I just call them ideas, man, just lots of ideas, man, you know, and every time we have a win in the business. We're just sort of like, yep, just a couple of ideas, Ben, making it happen. But you know, it's, it was true. Like I saw that, I saw the way these guys acted in his moments. I saw what this guy did to Ryan. I was like, that is so petty. I can't believe that anyone would treat anyone that way. Particularly how, how hard Ryan had worked for that business and committed himself to it. Without that moment, I just don't think we would have galvanized and gone, no, we're going to make, wait, this is going to happen. You need something like that.
Mitch:Financial planning, how many modules and what
Terry:happened? Yeah. So getting in and learning about money, right? Like getting invested. I really got interested in the whole process. As you can tell, we've got a hundred episodes talking about money, but the longer I got involved in financial planning, the more I realized how robotic it was. And it was almost training me to compete with computers because you're just learning a stack of laws and algorithms. Like if this, then that, if this, then that, if this, then that. And, what I really enjoyed was the education process. And there's no, none of that's really covered in financial planning at all. It's not about educating people. What it's about. It's about implementing for the already rich and skimming a little bit from a big pot so that it seems small, if that makes sense. It's not about education, it's about implementation. And that's why a lot of folks go to see financial planners and they get turned away or they get ignored because it's not set up to deal with people who actually want to get to the point where they are living that kind of affluent life and have prosperity for themselves. So that was for me, pretty eye opening. I was like, Oh, actually, I don't want to. I'm not here to help the already rich. I want to help people like me do things that I've done. Make changes in their lives. Use money as a tool to make it happen. Make their lives better. Live a wealthy life on the way to being wealthy. And the whole education system, the whole industry is kind of set up not at all for that because every minute you spend educating someone, you have to spend three to four minutes documenting what you said. Not to help them, but to protect you. But the person that has to pay for those minutes is you. And so it sets up this perverse incentive where for every minute you spend in front of a financial planner, they're doing a little calculation. Why spend too many minutes? I'm liking, I'm losing my profitability. I'm not going to be profitable. So the incentive is how do I systemize my process, be as transactional as possible? And I'm not saying this is all financial planners, by the way, I'm just saying this is the incentives that are set up in the system. There's actually some great financial planners, but the way the system's set up. Is that if you want to be as profitable as you possibly can be, you need to spend the least time possible and take the most money possible so you do the least documentation. And once that became clear to me, I'm like, I don't want any part of
Ryan:that. We've learned that less than the hard way. It's definitely not a character flaw thing. Rarely is it a character flaw thing. It's a system flaw thing. And we learned that because we thought we could still use the vehicle of financial advice to have the impact that we wanted to have. You know, we saw that Barefoot Investors sold something like 300, 000 copies. You know, more than any other genre, that's a huge amount of books that's sold. So there's a big need in Australia for help with finances, how to set themselves up and how to fund the life they want. And we wanted to serve those guys that are on the path, that are trying to figure out how to make it happen, not having already mostly made it happen. which is where Terry's kind of leaning on the fact that a lot of it is positioned to support those guys that are already there. But we learned that lesson in setting up Ocean Road Wealth, which was the first version of our business and setting up financial planning business, you know, got fully licensed and all that stuff. And, spend 12 months in that business, working that, trying to figure out how do we actually deal with Regulation and compliance, but also serve the people that we wanted to serve. And fortunately, again, probably a lucky part of our journey is one of our licensee reps encouraged us to set up a separate business, for our coaching, where we were kind of experimenting with, you know, some cashflow stuff with some different like coaching techniques and even just education modules as opposed and even, education series as well. That was separate from the advice business. Cause it was like, well, it's actually, you know, this pretty tricky to do all that stuff here is the amount of rigmarole that goes with it. So we got lucky in the sense that we were working on the advice business, but then also experimenting on the side in a separate business with the, at the time it was called the cashflow dojo. If I'd mentioned before, we had a Slack channel called dojo, which was like a learning dojo, right? It's a martial arts term. They became the cashflow dojo. It was kind of into our side thing, right? We're just messing around over there, like trying things out. But after about. 12 months, we realized that all the impact we were having was in that business, the coaching business, not in our advice business. Yeah, we're still doing good things, but it was very hard to actually, and all the feedback was coming from, you know, the people that were enjoying the new stuff that we're trying out. And that was probably cause we were just listening to people mostly trying to uncover like, what is the actual problem? What's actually getting in the way? What if we tried this? Or if we tried that? And if you think
Terry:about the model, like it is completely different. Like most of the time, financial planning, I'm not saying this is blanket statement, but most of the time, the way the industry is set up is like, I'll do all this stuff for you now so you can benefit from it in 30 years. Whereas with the coaching model, it's like, let's actually get busy now. To make life better now, so we can guarantee the future is the way you want to get there. It's not like an annual review, it's actually how do we set up these touch points, how to create a coaching relationship, mentality, accountability, those kind of things. So, so different, and Ryan's right, like that first 12 months seriously was experimentation, we didn't go into the space. thinking we knew what to do. We actually just went into going, let's understand this problem. And I think that's really helped because we didn't take any assumptions into that experience. We actually just worked backwards from what we saw as the problem and then started to try to build systems, tools, skills to be able to solve for that. And, recently I read a And a letter from Jeff Bezos's investment letters. And he talks about this in terms of innovation. And I was like, I didn't really realize that's what we're doing, but that's exactly what we did. And he said, most businesses start from what they know and try to solve problems with what they know. And he said, the better way to go, if you want to create something new, different, and genuinely innovative is to start with a customer need and work backwards from there. And inevitably what you will have to do, if that's the process is you're going to have to build new knowledge, new skills. And come up with new tools, new methods, new ways of doing things. and that's exactly how it's worked out for us. When we talk about money mapping and we talk about the methods that we teach in the program and the tools that we use, they don't exist anywhere else. I can guarantee that because we've seen everything else. We actually know what it all is. They're completely
Ryan:different. And you would think that that transition, right, seeing those two different businesses side by side would be easy. But it was fucking hard, like, you know, I'd done my master's degree, spent, you know, seven or eight years in the, in the field, working along that path, learning all the shit that you have to, to get to that point, to then go, Hey, let's just leave that behind and jump in and on this new. kind of coaching experimentation kind of side of things was actually a really hard decision. You know, that took probably three or four months of back and forth and then eventually going, you know what? Let's just try. Why not? Let's give it a go. But it sounds easy to reflect on it now at the time, that was actually a really hard decision.
Mitch:So it wasn't just a linear pathway of success for you guys. The cashflow wasn't just rolling in when you're getting this PhD on the problem.
Terry:Right. We were seriously jumping into the abyss there, like we knew that there was demand, there was unmet need in that space. We had no idea how you could turn that into anything because it didn't really, there wasn't anything in that sense. What we did know was where the future led on the current path and I think we probably could have made that work. If we made this work, we probably could have made that work. I'll be interested in your view, Ryan, but like, I just think in terms of fulfillment, And meaning from the work that you get, I think they're very different futures. Very, very different futures.
Ryan:Very, very different for sure. Like Terry said, like it's all kind of geared towards, you know, superannuation, which can't touch till 60. Insurances, which you might need in the future. Maybe peace of mind now, but might need it in the future. And then most of the actual wealth building exercises are wrapped up in that. Or if you've already got a big pot of money, which for the guys that we want to serve, it just wasn't it. So, and the fulfillment in the work that we do, that wasn't it either. so yeah, drew a straight line out into the future and said, is that us? Can we see ourselves being there and being that those people in the future? It's a pretty big no by the end of that.
Terry:It's kind of funny when you think about it now. Can you see me in a, like a three piece suit to some corporate, corporate office at QB? That's never going to happen. Yeah,
Ryan:I used to have six white t shirts. Crisp white. You
Terry:did, but you had the chinos. You had like all the, you had all the corporate fashion down pat and I'm like walking in insurance and stuff. On a tight list at one stage. That's funny. Good.
Ryan:Yeah. But yeah, look, mate, it was, it was slow too in the early days. Like any new businesses. What was the, the analogy you used the other day, Terry, of actually getting clients and doing that in the coaching spot.
Terry:Yeah. So like, we just talk about that change and we're like, Oh cool, we're going to do this. And it's not as actually simple as going, we're going to do this. And then we did it. It's literally like. Months and months and months of you just go like any opportunity you can take to work with anyone who wants any help you see if you can do that and you see what the actual help needs and like I would describe that first 12 months like just crawling through a desert and get to the end and just to get like a drop of water on the tongue that's what it was like and that was the time they're like in my life I've got kids I've just had twins and so we're kind of building our family at the same time And life, all its routines, everything is just thrown out the window.
Mitch:Nothing really going on there, mate. Couple of twins, wife's running her own business. You just go and get a PhD and no problem. Okay,
Terry:easy. Yeah, I think she probably showed the most belief in our business than anyone else, basically. She's like, you get after it and see how you go. And what
was
Mitch:that emotion for you, Martin? Obviously, you're killing it in the advice space, making great coin. To actually wrap your head around the fact that I'm going to go from hero to zero, and I'm going to back myself in here. How were you feeling in that moment of time?
Ryan:No, I wouldn't have said I was making great coin. I wasn't well looked after in the business I was at, but I was looking at, you know, it's kind of a pathway of, do I go somewhere more corporate? And go city life and make really good money or jump out and build something from scratch. That was kind of the decision I was looking at, but the feeling for it was, I just couldn't see myself wanting to be stuck in an office in a place where, most guys, you get questioned if you go for a walk in the middle of the day, wasn't okay to just pick up the phone from a mate and go, you know, have a yarn on a walk or go to the beach for an hour, if it's a beautiful day. And there was just this stiffness about it that. I couldn't wrap my head around. I probably couldn't just, you know, even though I liked, left in mind a suit and it clipped that tie clip, that much limitation around flexibility was just like, I couldn't see through it. So it was pretty clear to me that I had to do something on my own or create something different with Terry. So I wouldn't have said that. The decision was that hard in that sense. Cause I was like, nah, that's obvious. I need to make that, I need to go down that path. So the decision itself was probably easy, but the actual doing of it is a whole other story.
Terry:For what it's
Mitch:worth, you look heaps good in Nike, so you can leave a good
Terry:time out. The thongs suit you way more. But there was a summer there cause we had sort of, you know, Like it was about nine months to actually get the license, right. Waiting through the red tape. And that's all a period of transition where income goes to zero basically. And then you've got to go work out what you're going to do between now and then. So we're like waiting, waiting, waiting. We get the license and we realize we can't change this system from the inside out. We need to do something completely different. So there's like over 12 months where you go, like, you could have just skipped straight to it, but I'm not sure you could. But the point is like, you had to get yourself through that, that period of time and we did whatever we possibly could to make it happen. Like there's stories of founders like at Airbnb selling fucking cereal and stuff. Ryan and I, we're doing all kinds of jobs during that period of time, just to be able to kind of give ourselves a runway, enough time to be able to sort of get through. So you know, there's jobs that you were doing, Ryan, I did a couple of days with you. I think of the throwing the Christmas trees on trucks. That's the hardest work I've ever done in my life. And I've done a lot of hard work. And that is the most physical labor I've ever done. Like getting up, what is it like four or 5am in the morning? Walking paddocks all day, picking up 30, 40 kilogram Christmas trees, throwing them onto semis for fucking 12 hours a day. And like doing that to have enough cash to keep going, to be able to see whether it actually could work. So yeah, not a linear thing, not easy at all times, turns out it's
Ryan:totally worth it. There's a sick part of me that kind of enjoyed it, but the, the key part to that was it was doing work with my body so that I could use my brain later. And we were
Terry:doing that too. Wasn't it? It was like. Yeah. Cause it was like, we're listening to this and it was like Naval and it was like an Aussie firebug and we're like, this is what we're going to do. Yeah. This is what we're going to do. So you could
Ryan:listen to podcasts, like do hard labor, some work, but listen and consume while you were doing it. But then also get home and still have the tickets mentally to be able to, you know, sit at the computer for three or four hours and not out a few things or plan for, you know, where we're going to take it. So, yeah, the ability to create a runway financially, and it was for that purpose, which was give us a runway. So you
Mitch:needed a system, right? Based on what you've shared, there was a system for you guys that you needed. But to get through this period, it wasn't Just about a problem for the customer. You guys had one too. You needed this to work.
Terry:Yeah, that's exactly right.
Ryan:I look, a lot of that learning was what, you know, eventually came out in the podcast, you know, being able to draw back from all those ideas and insights and learnings to then, you know, synthesize and share on the podcast. and even the podcast itself, right. It was a tricky thing. Like at the time we realized that we're doing something different than you. And people didn't know that existed. It wasn't just like, Oh, I'm going to go see a mortgage broker. Yeah. Mortgage brokers do this, I was like, these guys are doing something else and there's no way for people actually to fully understand that except, you know, check out the website. So we actually had to educate the market, if you like, we existed and this is what we do and this is how we're tackling it and shape a world view that people can buy into. but a podcast, you do the first episode, you get three subscribers, my mum, Barry's mum, and maybe a, a mate that's willing to sit through 45 minutes. There's still a second episode, you might get 20. Yeah, we got to the end of the first 10 episodes. I reckon we'll maybe getting up to 200 on an episode or something like that. And that, you know, even in itself, that's another drip of water on the tongue after a pretty, pretty
Terry:long and dry desert. It's interesting because we actually ended up and sort of there was a part of the purpose of the podcast to start was actually To educate the guys we were actually working with at the time as well. And so we were like, how do we package this stuff up and just give it to everyone, but we just be coaching the people we're actually working with. we were pretty explicit about that on the first season as well. We're like, this is everything we're doing. This is everything we're teaching and coaching people on to be able to implement these principles. And, the thing that sort of, You know, we kind of made a bit of a, a degree where we're like, look, if we're not enjoying it after six episodes, we'll just stop. We'll just see how we go. We just see it as an experiment, right? you know, we got to the sort of six episodes and I don't know about you, but like, one of the signs and signals for me was the response we were getting from our guys. And they were just like, By the way, this is just a handful of guys we're working with face to face. We actually don't know about all the other listeners. We just know the people that we're sharing with directly. And so they're saying to us, this is awesome. We're loving this. Like keep doing more of this. And that was all. That was the only bit of signal where like, well, let's keep doing this and see where it gets to. And the timing just turned out to be perfect because it was about COVID. We started that. And then COVID literally changed all the norms around how you work with professionals, how you get consulting and how you get help in different ways. And, and that just unlocked so much for us because the audience, the national audience that we had built in that time, which really didn't have a handle on until COVID happened because it's only after COVID happened that we started getting, phone calls and bookings in the diary and things like that from all over the place. And I remember the first time we got a booking from. Somebody that wasn't a friend or somebody wasn't referred from someone that we'd work with. And we're like, this is a complete stranger. We're like, what the fuck is this? This is amazing. You know, and it was magic. It just unlocked so much. Cause once you do something once, you know, you can do it again. And so. That's one of the biggest things that I've learned through this whole process is you've just got to figure out how to do something once and then the idea of whether or not you can do it is gone. Now you've just got to figure out how you can replicate, replicate, replicate and make it better. And so instead of you thinking that you've got to do everything, you just think about what's the one thing that I can figure out how to do? Now I know how to do it, I can do it again. You're not questioning yourself, you're not doubting all the way along. This I think is really important and we'll get to why later on because it's an important part of the process. How do we
Mitch:get from there to actually making this happen? How has this worked?
Terry:You get there day by day, literally day by day. And then you just turn around and go, how do we get there? How do we get here from there? I don't know. I don't think there's a straight line, mate. You're just learning as quickly as you possibly can. And we've talked about this before, but I think speeding up your acquisition of results, whatever the result is, good, bad, doesn't work, works, you just got to speed up your, speed up that sort of OODA loop, you know, observe, orient, decide, and act, observe, orient, decide, and act, and keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it, keep doing it, because that's the only way your brain is figuring out what to do. There is no formula for doing it. There is no book. Trust me, I've tried to find it. There is no book that is going to give you the roadmap to make it happen. There's a lot of great ideas and you can take so much from other people's learning, but the best learning you ever do is just observing your results, updating your approach, observing your results, updating your approach. And if you never act to start getting those results, then your brain can't learn to figure it out. Before
Mitch:you're acting and observing those results, something happens though, doesn't it?
Terry:It does, mate. Yeah. And this is a
Mitch:question that you ask yourself. every single day. I've heard you talk about this more than probably anything else. What is
Terry:that question? Yeah. It's just like, why does it matter? Why are you doing it? And what makes people change and what makes that decision happen? Right. Cause I have my whole life. I've just been obsessed with that question. Like I can see, and I've always been just fascinated with like the transformation of somebody. It happened for me the first time in my life when I was about nine years old and I watched someone that I love. Literally walk out the door, walk in the door a different person, never the same again. And it wasn't for the better, it was for the worse. For the rest of my life I've been trying to figure out what happens when people change? What is that process? You know? But I've just thought about it the other way. What if you could understand change and help people change for the better? And so, all the work I was doing in support and that kind of thing, there's always this question in the back of my mind like, how is this person going to get from here to here? And how do I help them in that process? What does that need to look like? it wasn't until years later that I came across this model. You know, we sort of had a really good chat about, and it's been pretty formative, we just Probably didn't have the language for it. We were doing this, but once I saw it, I was like, that's exactly what we're doing. And that's exactly how it works. And the shout out here is to Dan Sullivan. So we've talked about him a bit in the podcast before. Very, very well renowned coach of entrepreneurs. And he sort of codified this process. He calls it the four C's. I just think he missed the last two. So I added a couple to it. But I think it does explain, I guess, the process, the sequence, the actual steps people take when they're making a big change. And it is important to understand because you need to know where you're at in this process. So you can normalize what's going on. You can actually engineer this change if you do understand it as well, which is exactly what we do and why we do what we do in the mentorship. So there's six C's basically it's commitment, courage, capability, confidence, consistency. So if you go back through the story that we just told, right, there's a point of commitment. The point of commitment is third member decides to leave and go off with the other business owner. Business owner sends Ryan out on his ass. We decide right then and there, we're going to make it happen. It is going to happen now. It's gone from a good idea to a fucking, it's going to happen. It's not, if it happens, it is going to happen. And that there, that commitment. You cannot have the change happen without that commitment. But if you do get to a level of that commitment, and I would say there's like, it's binary, you either have it or you don't have it, and it's like a threshold. You sort of get to a point, you get to a point, and then once something gets past the threshold, boom, you're committed. And it all starts from that decision. You're like, I've got conviction, and I'm going to make it happen. That's my decision. Once you've got commitment, now you show the courage. Now you've got the courage to go after that thing, feel like an idiot, fail, do all the hard things. You know, we talked about trying, crawling across the desert, trying to get that little drop of water, working with one client at a time, just trying to prove and understand like where the value is in this space. Having an idea that there was a better and different way. I can tell you like every day you're questioning yourself, every day. You're like, is this the right thing? Is this the right thing? Should we have done this? Should we have done this? Should we have done this? But you keep doing it because you have the commitment. And if you do that for long enough and you show that courage for long enough, you will eventually develop capability because you're going to be getting results. Your brain's going to be learning and you're going to be starting to figure out, ah, this is how we help. This is what we can do. This is where the value is. This is where we add the value and you get better and better at doing it over time. Once you've got capability, Now you have confidence. It doesn't come before it comes after capability. And I think, you know, a lot of us misinterpret this and I've seen reviews on the podcast, which is like, love this podcast. I'm just listening to it to develop my confidence so I can start doing something. And I read that and I'm like, it doesn't work that way. You start doing something to get the confidence because it's only from the outcomes. That you actually start to go, I can do this. We can do this. You know, the first time you make a sale, you go, wow, I can figure out how to do this. And the first time you help someone hit a goal. Amazing. We help someone to achieve that goal, whatever that goal is. It doesn't even matter what the size of that goal is. Yeah, it's building evidence over time, so your confidence is always a by product of your evidence. And your evidence doesn't exist without your action. And this is probably where the last two C's come in, right? Chips and chocolate? No, it's not chips and chocolate. It's consistency and compounding, because once you've got to a point where you're confident, you will be consistent, you'll just keep doing the thing. You're not actually wondering and doubting yourself anymore. You're like, cool, keep doing this. Now you're consistent. And that's when things start to compound, right? So you keep doing podcasts. You keep going. You keep building the new version of the tool. You keep doing the new thing that you're actually doing. And it has to work that way. It just has to. And so I think like those last two are really important because it is actually consistency you're after. And in finance, with the guys we work with here, it's like how do we get them to the point of consistency as quick as possible? How do we collapse the time from commitment to consistency as quick as we possibly can so that the results just start to take care of themselves? That is actually the trick. And it was the trick for me when I was coaching in sport as well. I realized, I'm like, I just need to get to the point where it clicks in your head. This is working. This is working. And we've talked about it before. B. J. Fogg, you don't change by feeling bad. You change by feeling good. That is the moment you feel good. And now you're changing. Now things are starting to move in the direction. Now you've got momentum. Love that.
Ryan:And I think to add to that confidence piece. Once you got that capability come from, once you've, you know, committed work through the shit, had to be courageous and put yourself in situations and conversations that you feel like an idiot in eventually when you do build that capability and then you go, Oh shit, you know, I actually can have a real impact. Oh, that's good. see people in these conversations and those situations, then all of a sudden, you know, you start to embody that you start to go, well, this is actually something I do. And it becomes a real identity piece where it's no longer a hard thing because it's, you're trying to be somebody else or, you know, a version of you that you don't feel like you are, but eventually you go, fuck, I'm the type of person that can sit down and have a conversation and dramatically shift. The path somebody's on and it's things like that where as soon as you could say that about yourself, how easy it is to sit down in one of those conversations. In fact, you want to, you've got a lot of energy and drive to actually get in front of people to do those things. That's where a lot of that consistency comes from. Because it's no longer a willpower challenge. It's just the thing that you do. And the thing that you love doing as well. It's just that you gotta push through the shit at the start. The dragging across the desert. And that's why, like you said, being binary. Going from just interested in an idea to then going fucking, I'm doing that. Often, there needs to be a trigger point, point of going, well, fuck this, something's got to change. There has to be some kind of change here. So yeah, it's a pretty cool model.
Mitch:Your face changes in an incredible way when you drop those two words. Anger. Fuck you, was it? Yeah. There's just an energy and you spoke about energy before you actually dropped those two words and I think that's where we need to head. Because there is two very powerful emotions that ultimately need to work together to help you get to where you want to get to. There is a toward energy, that vision that reflects our values. There's also an away from energy and ultimately it is an away from a prism, something that's preventing you from ultimately achieving what you want. When you can combine those two things, it is nuclear, it is nuclear and ultimately you guys tapped into these two states very effectively. What was the Ideas Man energy? How did you feel after being labeled Ideas Man?
Terry:What was that like? Yeah, so it's important to sort of delve into this because this doesn't work. This whole model of like commitment, courage, capability, confidence, consistency, compounding, it doesn't work without commitment. And so to catalyze commitment, you have to connect these two energies. And that's what we do. And we're kind of sitting down in that first session with folks, helping them connect these two energies. And you can see, and you've probably seen it as well, Mitch, you've seen it, right? You talk about the fun part, which is like, what do you guys want to accomplish, and that sort of stuff. And then you get to the next part, which is like, what's driving you. And what's driving you, that's you tapping into that fuck you away from energy. And people kind of get uncomfortable in shifting their seats, and I kind of prepare them for it. I'm like, this is going to be the important part. This is probably the most important part of this whole process. Because we are conditioned to think that painful is negative, therefore negative is bad. Therefore, avoid the bad. It's so not true. If you go back to any moment in your life where you've made a decision and you've had that conviction and you've made a change and a hundred percent. There'll be a moment in your life where this has happened. Think about it right now. You're going to go back to a moment of pain. And that moment of pain creates the change because humans don't move forward until the pain of staying the same exceeds the pain of change. And the pain of staying the same is more about identity than anything else. And so in that moment for us. What was that fuck you away from energy? It was being labeled ideas man. What is an ideas man? That's somebody that never actually does anything just talks does a lot of talking doesn't really actually get anything actually done Doesn't have the sort of follow through to make it work, you know, and that's labeling an identity And so that's somebody saying you're that and the fuck you energy is me saying I'm not that at all You don't even know me. I'll show you and Away from is always about rejecting an identity You Rejecting an identity. And so the situation, you got to actually just be honest with yourself about the situation. Cause in actual fact, he could have been right. Cause I'm sitting there going like, you want to like, let's do this podcast thing. And he's like, you haven't done anything, mate. You're just an ideas man. And I'm like, you're right. So let's go and do it. And so you have to actually kind of acknowledge and you're like, well, I'm not happy with this. I want this to change. And I thought to myself, like, why am I asking this guy for permission and looking for his acknowledgement and needing him to be a part of it at all? I fucking don't need his acknowledgement. I don't need his permission. I can just go and do it. So that's what we're going to go and do. Make it happen. And that away from energy is always you tapping into identity, which is like, I'm rejecting this version of myself, and I'm going to go and claim another one. And in order to claim that identity, I'm going to go after and pursue these new things, pursue these new skills. In order to accomplish those things, to do those things and have that reality. Cause if I did that and had that, then my identity is different. This is why we can laugh about those kind of statements. Now we could have just sat there and accepted that and gone, Oh, maybe he's right, maybe he's right. Maybe it was just an idea. So I'm just no good. I'll, I'll just
Ryan:better shut the fuck up. That's a important point, right? If you don't get to the point where you can laugh at it, it's probably going to haunt you. Otherwise it's going to sit on your shoulder and go, fuck, maybe you are just an ideas, man. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think that identity is also a reflection of the reality around you as well. It's what you see when you look around. And for me, at that time, I was looking around, seeing a workplace, seeing environments, seeing a structure in my day and all those things were just like, I felt who I am is a reflection of what I'm seeing all the time. It's how that kind of feeds in. And I was just like, this current reality needs to change. What I'm seeing, what I'm doing every day is impacting who I'm being. And so that whole thing needs to shape shift. At the time. And you know, there was a big trigger point right at the end there, which I mentioned with, you know, walking in and having that thrown in my face, where I was just like, I don't need to deal with this shit. I don't need to deal with how this is all shaped around me. So something's got to change. And that there, those moments of commitment where you just go, well, fuck now I'm going to make it happen because it's like, that's I'm sick of it. And I think that language is probably pretty indicative of being in that place. As soon as you go. I'm sick of this, or I'm sick of being. That is a really healthy place to get to sometimes because it's a trigger point that makes you go, all right, now I'm committed. I've been teetering on it. Now I'm going to actually do the thing that needs to be done to make that become something. Yeah, I think that's the nature of those two emotions. The toward energy, the vision, what you can see, the change to color in the future is kind of gets you out of your seat a little bit, but the away from energy, not wanting, being sick of those things and not wanting those things to be true is what makes you push through, you know, that courage part where you are shit. We are uncomfortable and then for long enough to build some capability and then eventually to get to confidence. But you do need that and that is, you know, when you said nuclear energy before, that's the nuclear energy, being able to grit your teeth and deal with that discomfort for
Terry:long enough. We say nuclear energy, mate, because Nuclear energy is like this powerful, clean source of energy that most people are too scared to touch. They don't want to look at it. They don't want to think about it. They're just like, nah, I'll just leave that over there. But that's exactly what this is. Because I think the language we use, we were discussing this, Ryan, was like, that gets you out of your seat, gets you out of your bed in the morning, but that's what helps you grit your teeth and get through that hard part. Because it's always going to be hard because you're going and trying different new things. And there is no way around that. So if you want to achieve your goals, you've got to find out what's driving you. And what's driving you is more about identity than it is about. Anything, any cool accomplishment, it's more about, like, who you want to be. Who you want to be is the most powerful driving force in your
Mitch:life. What is really clear when you study the greats, they have really used this away from energy to get them to where they want to get to. It's really shaped who they want to be. And it's very, very clear that this is the missing ingredient of achievement. Who do you guys look to that has really used this away from energy effectively to get to where
Terry:they are? Yeah. When you look back through people that we all know of people who's unknown all over the world, all of their stories come back to some moment of fuck this, I'm done with this. I'm going to be this. the classic one that everyone always talks about is Michael Jordan gets rejected from his high school basketball team. I'm not going to be a reject anymore. I'm going to become the greatest athlete that ever walked the planet. Alright, so, I won't be the reject, I will be the greatest. Away from, towards. So that means I'm going to go and do everything that nobody else is doing. I'm going to practice harder, I'm going to practice longer, I'm going to practice better than everybody else, and I'm going to do it in this way. Jeff Bezos, Keanu Reeves, Jay Z, a lot of these people, you can actually trace it back to one source of very strong away from energy. Comes back to rejection as well. And it's being abandoned. at a very young age or at birth by one or both their parents. So think about this for a second. You're Jeff Bezos and your parents decide that they don't care enough about you to have you around. You've got a decision to make there. Are you going to step into that frame and accept that version of reality while I'm worth nothing? Or are you going to have some pride in yourself and decide to become somebody that everybody knows? Now I'm not saying that this is always constructive and it's always expressed in a healthy way. But what I am saying is, there's two responses to that moment, and one of them makes your life worse, and it's more destructive than the other. It's post traumatic growth, right? You need to actually step into that trauma for a second, feel that trauma, and decide what you want to do about it. And same thing always happens. Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Keanu Reeves, Jay Z, all these guys, they all just made a decision. They said, you don't think I'm worth anything? I'm going to show you how much I'm worth. This is what I'm going to go and do. And so, which would you rather? Would you rather accept that frame and say, Oh, I'm just a worthless piece of shit. You're right. And no wonder you left. What would you rather? Simple as that, right? You
Mitch:used the term victim versus victor. And I think that's a really powerful distinction.
Terry:That's right. I mean, if you do accept that person's view of you, then you choose to be a victim of it. But going the other way, you're saying, well, I'm going to be a victor of the situation. I'm going to be a victor in my own life and I'm going to see what I'm capable of. We'll sort of see where, let the chips fall where they may. And you know, when it comes back to life and the shortness of life, and we always talk about this, but. It's time that's scarce. It's not money. And so when you think about it, like, you want to die with the least regrets possible. It's not the things that you did that didn't work out that you'll regret. It's the things you never did. And so, those are the moments where you get to choose, which way am I going to go? And how am I going to die? Heavy. Stroll. Super heavy. I've, I've just given like a couple of male examples there, but there's actually some really powerful female ones as well. Oprah Winfrey comes to mind, as well as Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Oprah was the same. She experienced a sexual assault, sexual abuse at a really young age. she makes the comment in interviews that that's the most powerless she ever felt. And then she made the decision to become the most powerful. And you can make the argument that she's achieved that, or she did achieve that at a certain point in time. Such an inspiration. Yeah, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg's the same. Experiencing discrimination, trying to be the first female lawyer to go through Harvard Law School, being discriminated against, and not wanting to accept that reality for herself or any female that followed her. And then dedicating her life to sort of fix that. And there'd be very few people that have worked as long and as hard to change the way the world works, particularly like society and the systems of law and that kind of thing. There'll be very few people that could stand beside Ruth Bader Ginsburg when it comes to that. And so, it's not just men that are proud, and it's not just men that make it, this is a human thing. And you can absolutely tap into this and it's available to you at any moment. All you've got to do is not distract yourself from the pain and the trauma that you've been sort of stepping around. You've got to sit in it for a second and say to yourself, what do I want to do with this? Do I want to harness this? Do I harness this to actually find out what I'm capable of or am I going to let this control me? Because I think until you step into that, you don't actually take responsibility for the outcome. You are a victim. But if you do take responsibility and you say, this is fucked and I don't like it, that is you assuming responsibility for that outcome and your life. And the moment you do that, you take control of that power and you now get to harness it towards what you want. But if you keep stepping around it because you don't want to admit that, that's the reality. Very hard for you to change things. I think to
Ryan:point out as well, like it doesn't need to be. Something heavy and drastic and overly traumatic either, right? Like it doesn't need to be sexual abuse. Doesn't need to be abandonment of a parent. Sometimes it is just getting to a point of going, well, what I'm seeing around me and what I have, I'm not happy with. Being able to kind of just acknowledge that and sit with it and go, it's not enough, things should be better. And I can see things can be better. Sit with that discomfort for long enough to go, well, fuck it. I am going to make a change. I'm going to do something different. I'm going to get healthier. You know, I'm going to get my finances sorted. I'm going to start that business or change that career, jump out of the easy lane that I've found myself in and jump into a harder one, deal with that discomfort of challenge and change. But you do have to really kind of escape, come to some of the societal norms that We do now, which is, you know, just try not to feel bad, get in, in fact, kind of encourage it. We would encourage doing that in a controlled way, because if you don't actually acknowledge it, then it actually just simmers, you know, it just sits in the back of your, your monkey brain, you know, tapping its hands together, like it's got tamarins in its hands. It's just, there's something itching and agitating you. Whereas as soon as you call it out and say, this is what it is, and this is what I'm annoyed with, and this is what, yeah, not in a venting to the world way, to yourself way, As soon as you do that becomes a tool that you can use, it becomes a nuclear energy source that you can tap into at times and call back to and utilize. And as soon as you do that, you go, all right, proud part of you goes, I don't want that to be true for me in the future. And I'm going to now go gather evidence to show myself that that isn't true. Like starting a podcast, I'm going to go put a hundred episodes of a podcast out to show that I'm not just an ideas man and turn that into a business. That's utility of pain as opposed to, like you said, being a victim.
Terry:The other thing I think that keeps us stuck is, like the way we're viewing success, right? We talk about wealth and we talk about that as a value of like having more of what you, you value. And money is a very different thing and success is also a very different thing. But the world wants us to conflate all those three and put them all together. Money, wealth and success. If you have money, then you must be wealthy and successful. Not actually true. You could be successful. You could also have money, but you can do it differently. And for me, like, why would you go and put yourself through this? Why would you put yourself through some of those challenges? Those kinds of things. We said it before you want to die with the least regret, obviously. And if you're sort of stuck in the idea that success is a socially determined game or competition of accumulation, then you'll kind of stay stuck. But if you think you see it as like a self determined journey of actualization, and the job is actually to find out who you are and what you're really capable of, then you're going to give yourself permission to go out, try, fail, fall on your face, get better, and find out where you're at in 10 years time, as opposed to try to protect for the next one year. Because it's usually a journey of going down to go up. You're going to feel bad for a period of time. You're going to feel like things are struggling. They're hard. You're going to just, it's just not pleasant. But life is not about everything always being pleasant. And we talked about this before, like seeking happiness is great, but purpose is way more valuable, way more valuable. And purpose comes from you doing hard things and accomplishing things to have a sense of pride looking backwards. So you need pride looking forwards, And you need pride looking backwards, I reckon. Pride to get yourself to do something that's hard, and the reward is more pride looking backwards on what you've done. So this is
Mitch:critical. Yeah. We're starting to talk about why we don't actually use this to create that nuclear energy, that societal conditioning. What else is at play here from stopping us from using this?
Ryan:That contrast Terry just pointed out there, accumulation versus actualization. That is where I think we're actually very well trained and conditioned to focus on accumulation because we are most of the time looking around, looking at people around us and going, are we at. Are we at a stage in our life where, you know, are we at a status level or at a financial level that we should be at, that our peers are at, or are we falling behind? And usually it is the easiest scoreboard to actually look at that upon is how much money do you have? You know, what possessions do you have? You know, where are you living? All those things. Whereas the actualization part is like, well, you actually figuring out what it is you want is actually one of the hardest things. You know, very few people actually go through a process of finding out what it is they want to do with their life and kind of work that impact they want to have. And it's actually easier to stay on that path of, you know, accumulation than it is to step across into the one of actualization because you don't just go, fuck it. That was me, I'm, you know, I was in the rat race, I was focusing on accumulation, now I'm going to focus on actualization. It's not an easy thing to do. Like that comes with time and actually having to interrogate your own values and interrogate yourself and interrogate why you've actually come to do all the things that you're doing that also have something else that's worth working on as well. So, yeah, I think that's probably a big thing, like what is, what is normal essentially.
Terry:The irony is though, the accumulation happens After actualization, because of it, because if you're moving more towards what you're going to be driven to accomplish and have a sense of purpose toward, you will actually perform better, you'll be more productive, and you'll make a bigger and higher contribution. And that's what happens on the back end, so it's not a fluke that Oprah's pretty rich. It's not a fluke that Jeff Bezos is the richest guy in the world. It's not a fluke that Jay Z is a rapper that somehow became a fucking billionaire. So aiming directly at the accumulation thing, it's too myopic. You got to like point the focus back on yourself and be like, what's the best version that I can become and how do I get after that? And it's not about being right. It's just like moving in that direction and just like moving in that direction because you're just like layering on skills. Building evidence, building confidence as you go and as you build confidence and you start taking bigger bets on yourself and as you take bigger bets, you learn, you learn more and more and more and bigger powers. Feels very Zig Ziglar esque. It is. It is, mate.
Mitch:All right. So we have been on a journey team. We've mapped out your away from energy. We've gone through the six C's. We've talked to the two different types of energy. And ultimately, why we don't use them. How do you use the energy to actually get what you want? Yeah,
Ryan:I think the first step, mate, is you gotta declare what you want. You have to outwardly say, this is the path that I want to go on, and this is the, I guess, the new vision, the new future reality that I want to create. And be willing to stand behind it. And often that is just saying it out loud, telling someone, you know, sharing it with the world in some way, might only be one person, but actually declaring that this is what I want, because it's easier said than done, right? It's not that easy to go, well, you know, maybe you're working in this field or you're doing these things and the people you're with are also doing those things. So for you to say, I want to do something else is a little bit socially deviant. And especially with partners and family too, right? I know for me, sometimes I say stuff where I'm like, I want to achieve this. And usually the default response for most people is like, Oh, that's a bit, that's a bit, bit of carry on, you know, really didn't mate. And especially in Australia, we've got a pretty strong tall poppy syndrome that goes on as well. And so it's not always easy to actually say, well, this is what I want to do. This is where I want to be, what I want to become, but you have to do it. You have to stand behind it. That's the first one, I think. What else would you do, Terry?
Terry:Yeah, I think the next part there is just acknowledge where you are now. So if that's what you want, you have to admit to yourself, well, this is where I am. And because you need to be able to actually perceive the gap between where you are and where you'd like to be. And the gap isn't just like, what's the financial gap? It's not that at all. It's the gap between who you are and who you need to be. Because that is what drives transformation. And that's where people feel uncomfortable when we're sitting down sort of setting goals. Is, like that agitation that you feel, that's an acknowledgement that current identity doesn't measure up. And that's fantastic because what that does is it actually helps you to start going, well, what do I need to do to become the kind of person that accomplishes that thing? So that feeling of like, Oh, I'm a bit scared by what I've actually just declared. That's fantastic. That's exactly what you want. It's agitating that current identity. It's going to move you in the direction of building a new one. But if you never actually admit that and say there's a gap between who I am and who I need to be to accomplish those things. Then you never do anything different. You just stay where you are.
Ryan:From that, you have to state your discomfort. You have to go, this is the pain and sit in it and let that kind of agitate you enough to go, all right, I'm now going to do something about it. Cause if you can go, that's where I want to be. That's what I want. This is where I am. Like that's one thing, but then you've got to build the grit to be able to actually get through the, you know, have that fuck you moment, commit to it, and then sit through that and show the courage and then build the capability. You have to go, all right, these are the things. That I don't want to be true and often that is the discomfort you're experiencing right now. So I'd say that's the next
Terry:one. And then the last one there is just get support and guidance. Like you don't have to carve your way through the jungle alone. There are people that have done what you want to do and it's not written that you have to be that rugged individualist figuring everything out on your own. Getting help is one of the best things you can possibly do because if you get into the room of people who look like you, sound like you, smell like you, talk like you, doing the things you don't think you can do, that's the fastest way to break the belief that you, you can't do it. It's the fastest way to also build the belief that you can. And so getting support and guidance from people who are doing what you want to do is one of the fastest ways to accomplish that new thing and start to collect some of that evidence sooner. Use social gravity to just drag you in the direction of those dreams. For sure. And that's common, that's
Ryan:like what I was saying before, like, but if you're around the people, when you say it, it sounds outlandish. And you feel like you need to reel it in. Then you have to find a way to get in the other room where when you say that, they go, Oh yeah, fuck. Yeah. So you should.
Terry:Yeah. All I say, and what else? It's true though. I don't know if I've said this before, but I did hear this amazing quote and it was like, If the people around you don't make you feel a little bit uncomfortable and don't inspire you, then you don't have a circle of friends, you have a cage. And so get out of it and get yourself into a room where people are saying, yeah, and what else? It's so interesting what happens when somebody looks at you and says, aren't you dreaming a little, aren't you just going a bit small there? Not in a
Ryan:judgmental way, more in a healthy, challenging way. Exactly.
Mitch:Seeing people own this away from energy is one of the most inspiring parts of my life. Working career. And today has been an absolute delight hearing you guys talk to how we actually get people there and how we use that away from energy to help them smash the goals that they want. I'm feeling pretty pumped up. I want to get into this day. Got some away from energy that I need to get after. And a big shout out to Nat. I actually want to give a big shout out to one of the most poignant away from energies that I've had in recent time. She said, I am sick of living the same day, day after day. I'm sick of playing small and I'm sick of being a victim to the money. Let's go and get after
Terry:this. Love it. Yes, Nat. Let's
Ryan:celebrate that for sure.
Mitch:It really was, there's nothing more powerful. And I think helping people unlock that nuclear energy is a gift. So bring on the rest of the day. Great, mate. Is that it? Yeah, that's it, fellas. How did you guys find that?
Terry:Mate, it was kind of weird being on the other side of this and then sort of being guided through. But, I'm really glad we did that. Hopefully it was helpful. Yeah.
Ryan:Enjoyed it. There's a couple of big rants in there. Hopefully it's helpful for whoever's
Mitch:listening. There's nothing more inspiring than actually hearing away from energy guys. So thank you so much for sharing your story. And I'm sure a lot of people will get a big kick
Terry:out of that. Thank you, man. Thanks for helping us do it, mate. Appreciate it. Pleasure.
Mitch:Let's go and create some WTF moments.
Terry:Love it.