Lara and guest Akshay Talati talk about your makeup bag on this episode of Coffee N° 5. They uncover the secrets to achieving product longevity by mastering the delicate balance of sensory appeal, performance, packaging, and marketing. Explore the fascinating link between texture and performance in cosmetics, and get an exclusive peek into the future of Goop, where the entrepreneurial mindset is reshaping the beauty landscape. Discover the importance of consumer connection through instant messaging and gain insights into the research process and current trends in cosmetology. Akshay also provides an expert forecast on the intersection of cosmetology and pharmaceuticals, making this episode a must-listen for beauty enthusiasts and industry professionals.
We'll talk about:
For more information, visit Goop's website.
Subscribe to Lara's newsletter.
Follow our host Lara Schmoisman on social media:
Instagram: @laraschmoisman
Facebook: @LaraSchmoisman
LinkedIn: @laraschmoisman
Twitter: @LaraSchmoisman
Lara and guest Akshay Talati talk about your makeup bag on this episode of Coffee N° 5. They uncover the secrets to achieving product longevity by mastering the delicate balance of sensory appeal, performance, packaging, and marketing. Explore the fascinating link between texture and performance in cosmetics, and get an exclusive peek into the future of Goop, where the entrepreneurial mindset is reshaping the beauty landscape. Discover the importance of consumer connection through instant messaging and gain insights into the research process and current trends in cosmetology. Akshay also provides an expert forecast on the intersection of cosmetology and pharmaceuticals, making this episode a must-listen for beauty enthusiasts and industry professionals.
We'll talk about:
For more information, visit Goop's website.
Subscribe to Lara's newsletter.
Follow our host Lara Schmoisman on social media:
Instagram: @laraschmoisman
Facebook: @LaraSchmoisman
LinkedIn: @laraschmoisman
Twitter: @LaraSchmoisman
Lara Schmoisman 0:05
This is Coffee Number Five. I'm your host, Lara Schmoisman. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Number Five. Today, oh my god, there's so much to do today so much to talk about. And I love that we live in a world now that it's becoming global. And we have before it was very limited to countries, but I was recently traveling. And it's so refreshing to see new brands in other countries. But also, it's great to see your difference that you feel comfortable with. And that you know that it's your best friend that you see there. And when we're talking about skincare, we're talking about, like you really connect to your brand because that product needs to work for you. Otherwise, you just go on to Russia, if somebody doesn't work for you, or for me, and I'm the first to say if I have a skincare or I buy a product that I don't see over time, you have to give it time. But if I don't see the results that I want, I'm not buying again. And this is so important brand loyalty. And today I brought someone that I wanted to connect for such a long time. And I'm so happy he's here. Ashkay Talati. Did I say it right?
Ashkay Talati 1:20
Perfect, correct.
Lara Schmoisman 1:22
Welcome, welcome. Welcome. Thank you so much. So you've been in the beauty industry for a long, long time, you were in a stereo out there, only level, L'Oreal and now more recently, girl that we're going to talk about how to jump from such a corporate jobs to a more entrepreneurial marketplace. And that is not only for beauty, that it has a lot more to offer. But can you and also you're the vice president of the board of society of cosmetic and chemist, which is is a mouthful, but also I mean, it's so important. And now with the new Mokra laws, it's so important to know how we manufacture our products correct. So welcome and turmeric because I love to hear the backstories and I love to bring another fellow accent holder because yes lovely to talk to another people with an accent and a sexy accent. So How do you come up to this country and to become a chemist? I do have this incredible journey.
Ashkay Talati 2:23
Yeah, so like any thank you for the introduction. But like anybody who is in the cosmetic industry from for many years, we did not study cosmetic and chemistry we did not anticipate going into cosmetics. So I started into pharmaceuticals. So I am third generation pharmacist in my family. My grandfather, my father, myself, and actually my son is also a pharmacist. So I come from a pharmacy. I'm from Mumbai. I'm from Mumbai, India. So Nexia accent come from Mumbai, inborn it's inborn. That accent is inborn. And I have tried 30 years but it still carries on it gives me my identity. So yeah, I my family had a more small pharmaceutical business in India. That's how I ended into pharmaceuticals. Then I came over to us to learn for the go into further studies. And that's where I got into topical drugs. I started doing topical drugs like transdermal drug delivery. And then I started first before the cosmetic industry I started into a pharmaceutical industry making topical drugs like hydrocortisone pain medication, Bengay antibiotics, and then I after playing around, I got my pharmacist license, I could practice pharmacy still I still have a license. But my inclination was always towards innovation. I was always intrigued by creating something new being on the bench being as a chemist coming up with some new ideas. And then I was living in New York and Estee Lauder was hiring. And that was the time when Estee Lauder was only four brands. So I joined Estee Lauder when it was four brands. I started in the Estee Lauder brand. And then stayed on there for 22 years, building a brand by brand and when I left Estee Lauder 22 years after we grew from four brands to 38 brands.
Lara Schmoisman 4:23
So this is so interesting, because your background as a pharmacist, and yes EMS being a pharmacist, you need to work with a lot of FDA approvals and then coming to the beauty industry then until recently there were no regulation Correct?
Ashkay Talati 4:36
Yeah, so it's interesting right. So I think the basic the basics of pharmaceutical, being able to use pure molecules, being able to judge all the formulation properly in terms of performance stability, that gave me an edge when I came into the cosmetics, of course the the beauty about the cosmetic industry so there is a plot sN minus is right. The while you Pharmaceuticals is good, there is little less innovation, you cannot play around with too many ingredients, you cannot use the flour, our the extracts, the botanicals come up with new textures. Because in pharmaceuticals, your focus is one molecule or two molecules. And the aesthetics may not be that great. And it's more about the performance in cosmetics. Now, it's not only about performance, on top of it, you have to have good sensory, you have to good scent, you have to use new less, you have to come up with some appealing packaging. It's a combination for from everything to appeal to the consumers. So I think and then you have to innovate the lifecycle of a product in cosmetics versus pharmaceuticals. It must faster, you have to come up with innovation year after year, while in pharmaceutical, you create one product, it could stay there for 1415 years in the market.
Lara Schmoisman 5:56
Yes, yeah. It's very interesting. Also, because there is no regulations in the formulas in pharmaceutical, when you create the product, you have a certain years that you are the only one who can produce it.
Ashkay Talati 6:08
Correct. You have a new drug application, you own the market and if you have to file a drug application, and well, but in hindsight also like in cosmetics, if you look at cosmetics, some of the products that I created almost 27 years ago in Estee Lauder brand are still on the shelf. You were talking about longevity, I think if you create the product, right, with the right texture, right value, right sensory right performance, you can build longevity, I had created nutritious resilience lived I worked on it once Night Repair, so many of these products still are on the shelf. Of course marketing plays a big role in cosmetics. But the product also has to be right in terms of texture and performance.
Lara Schmoisman 6:53
So why to jump from corporate and work in a company like Goop?
Ashkay Talati 6:57
Yeah, so again, I was with Estee Lauder, Unilever and L'Oreal. I did the all three largest multinationals corporate life. And I think what happened there was a phase transition phase where I wanted to start thinking about something more entrepreneurial, more creative more, with the indie mindset coming up with ideas in New. And when I saw this opportunity of goop come up, I had two reasons to join the company. One because of all my knowledge that I have, I wanted to bring something to goop. And at the same time I wanted to learn from Google. So Gwyneth Paltrow, the founder, I report into her I wanted to learn from her how she created her journey.
Lara Schmoisman 7:48
Did you meet her?
Ashkay Talati 7:51
- we text each other also.
Lara Schmoisman 7:54
That's amazing. And so this is what it's really important to me. And that's what I was invited into the conversation not because of the golf save, of course, but because of the entrepreneurial mindset that she was very clear what she wanted for her brand.
Ashkay Talati 8:11
Perfect. Yes, she knew what she wanted. She stayed through her through her mission. You know, she started the company 15 years ago, actually, this was a 15 year anniversary. She started as just an editorial blog newsletter letter. Then she slowly changed into a bigger newsletter. Now she has travel. She has food we started Goop Kitchen last year, she we are going into possibly Goop Hotel we have Goop Beauty. We also have goop home. And at the same time, we don't only sell Gu products, but we also have multi-branded products with that we sell on Goop. So it's like a true omni-channel platform. And her vision is big to bring goop to all the markets. And if you see recently, just one month ago, we launched goop into mass market target also. So we created a new brand. That was one of my big projects over the last two years to create a brand for Target. So an accessible clean beauty line for Target as well. So her vision is very clear. She wants to bring awareness, her philosophy. Well, our philosophy is mainly about wellness, bringing the merger of wellness and beauty and beauty and wellness together and bringing it to everyone.
Lara Schmoisman 9:25
And this is something that I love about the clear vision that they had from the beginning and how and I think mainly because she started so slow, as small as a blog, and then she was able to carry through her values. And yes, something that I actually will discuss it in last weekend's episode as well with someone specializing in branding, but I see this with a lot of Indian brands that they try to fit everywhere and just in order to fit everywhere. They can keep changing their story undervalue. And my message to this brand that is it's okay, not to feed everyone. It's okay. But again, it's so much more important to be keep true to yourself that trying to change who you are just to fit in these retail channels.
Ashkay Talati 10:17
Yeah, and I think that is the beauty about indie brands right? When you have an intrapreneur-driven and founder-driven brand, you go much faster, you in order to penetrate a saturated market. It almost forces these smaller brands to think outside the box. We bring innovation. And if you really look at it, the multinationals, the L'Oreal, the Unilever's the shadows, guess what they are acquiring all the smaller brands because they cannot create the innovation they buy the innovation. If you take the example of L'Oreal, the original L'Oreal brand is only one. They are 48 brands, all 47 brands are acquisition and all those 47 brands were at one time indie brands. So like if you look at it, It Cosmetics, NYX, Urban Decay All of these were startup brands, and then they acquired them.
Lara Schmoisman 11:16
Just today, we But another issue that I'm seeing out there and tell me if I'm wrong, because now you've seen it from the other point of view as an indie brand, or is that there are a lot of smaller brands that they come to market with the idea of one day to be acquired.
Ashkay Talati 11:35
Almost everyone, almost every indie brand wants to either get acquired or grow by themselves into a Sephora or an Ulta. Or go public. Right. So that is the vision you slowly scale go to 10 million 50 million 100 million.
Lara Schmoisman 11:52
I love that word that you just said they're slowly, slowly scale. Yeah, it's really hard, if you will, overnight to be a success. I will be like really scary.
Ashkay Talati 12:04
Yeah, and you know what the thing is, we only hear about the brands that are successful, the indie brands, but there are so many indie brands who do not see success. Also, there are 20,000 brands launched each year. And you see only like the 510 brands, the celebrity brands are the big brands, que tiene elf and all that success, but there are small brands, which are they are launched and then they slowly fade off also.
Lara Schmoisman 12:30
So if you're a smaller brand, let what is first of all, let's because I always when we talk about products, we talk about those products that you want to call the legacy products, so they're going to be growing into generations and generations and, and people will be talking about what's the key ingredient to create those products that they're going to last and they are not going to be fast.
Ashkay Talati 12:55
Yeah. So I think there's not one I would say it falls in about six key ingredients you need first is good sensory, the product has to have good sensory performance, the product has to work because you can push branding. But you know what, if you push branding, people can buy it once, but they will not by second. So you need the sensory performance this
Lara Schmoisman 13:21
And this time of that everyone has an opinion. And now everyone has a channel to give an opinion many years ago people well they don't like it and they don't use it again, but they didn't have a way to give you a review. Now everything is about social proof.
Ashkay Talati 13:36
Yeah, yeah. Then I think the third one is value it has to be good value right you have to be rightly price right for the performance efficacy and all that package the package sold should be simple and convenient. The value what the value performance package. Convenience, it should be convenient for people to use it I think so if you combine all of this together, then it brings the product to life. And the one of the newer key thing is nowadays people's patience is less almost everybody wants that Tylenol effect they want to apply the product and they want to see some immediate change. So if your product gives you an immediate sensory effect, some transformation, some color change some fragrance, beautiful fragrance, it always adds a Bennis-like soft focus effect or immediate blurring immediate redness, cooling, heating, it always helps to give that instant messaging to the consumer because consumer wants something and even if you look on Instagram and tick tock people apply the product and within five minutes they say they like it or they don't like it. Yeah, they do not have the patience.
Lara Schmoisman 14:49
But also that can give you in a lot of returns that as a small brand. You need to be very careful.
Ashkay Talati 14:54
Yeah. So again, I just the long-term performance should be there. Obviously you need to You have that, of course, and the branding, the last one, the sixth one I forgot before was the branding and messaging. Nowadays, it's even more important for the brand to connect to the consumer. It could be a message about the founder, it could be about social messaging, it could be about environmental messaging, it could be giving back to the committee, there should be a message that the consumers can relate to the brand.
Lara Schmoisman 15:28
So when you started, I mean, you started in these huge companies, and they work a lot of ahead of time. So what's the lifetime of the project for you? Where does it start? It starts from research, it starts from trending or for forecasting, where does it come the idea of the new line or the new product that you're going to be working on?
Ashkay Talati 15:50
Yeah, so I'm usually so I'm thinking now about like the larger companies, right. So the larger companies, the ideas come from multiple sources, of course, consumer insights is one of them. So if you know there is a trend out there that there is a pain point, you know, the biggest innovations are those that solve a problem that make somebody's life easier, that makes somebody a dirty job easier. So the biggest innovations are something that changes people lives, the big, the big, dramatic, and the breakthrough innovation, the breakthrough, innovation does not come every one year, two years, they happen once in 10 years. And the funny thing is, when you try to look for breakthrough innovation, you cannot find them. And usually the breakthrough innovation happens from outside of the industry. So but usually when you do from a corporate side, so you look at consumer insight, then in the corporate, the larger corporations, you also have an advanced research group that come up with the technology and ideas which are five years out 10 years out, and then you merge that into the brand lab. So if there's a new molecule, how can you take that molecule and make it brand-relevant? So if I'm working for a brand, like Clinique keels, how can I make it relevant? The third is obviously trends, there is trends out there that there is mushroom is popular or niacin. amide is popular. The only hard part is like for the trends is if you're trying to follow a trend, and you launched the product two years later, you're already behind the trend. So you, you have to find the trend, before it becomes a trend. So and that's where you have to really when they starting and then grow with the trend or, or create the trend or create the trend.
Lara Schmoisman 17:37
That question is that like working is such a big corporations, I mean, you have the ability of creating a product really fast. But also I understand that the process might be much longer too, because you have so many stakeholders,
Ashkay Talati 17:51
it's actually longer in the larger companies, because like you said, there's too many stakeholders, too many internal processes, too many decision-makers, the volume of the product is larger. So it takes a little bit longer time the processes you have to go from one stage to other not the indie brands are not doing the same thing. But they indeed brands the decision makes goes faster. So example in indie brand, if I have to launch a product, I just go walk over to my boss's cabinet, hey, we want to do this, they make a decision. And yes, you are going right? While in a corporate you have to go through layers and layers.
Lara Schmoisman 18:32
Yeah, but let's talk a little bit about the process of creating a product because I think this is what let's be honest, a lot of companies or individuals get into the apiary business in even if they need to put an investment at front because of the margins. But they don't know what is entitled in the process in titles, the process of creating a brand creating a brand that they will work. So when you start what are the premises that you need to create as a chemist a product right?
Ashkay Talati 19:08
So I when you basically create a product, I think the first thing is to come up with the concept. So what is the concept? What is the problem? You are to try to solve an example?
Lara Schmoisman 19:22
Let's Yeah, let's talk about preteens that is starting to have acne. Okay, so I come to you and I'm corporate or I'm an indie brand I tell you I have my caught my brilliant concept here is that they're starting to have a hormonal changes and we want to prepare their skin for acne and to produce that the acne. That's my problem.
Ashkay Talati 19:50
Yeah, so let's say acne, right. So so the first thing is you if that's the concept, so first thing you do is You decide what is the product form, whether you're going to do see lotion and all that so once the product form is decided then
Lara Schmoisman 20:07
Okay, again is we're going to need when you create a product you want to create a line or you want to create a product.
Ashkay Talati 20:14
So again, if it's acne, ideally it depends on the portfolio of the product but if it's acne, I would ideally do three products right? So because you will do a serum or moisturizer and a cleanser so you can do a full regimen because it take almost in a synergy together. So you come up with the concept of the three products they work well together, so and then if you go into acne, right, what so then you research why does acne happen to preteens oily skin, pollution, clogged pores, too much secretion of oil glands, lack of exfoliation, hormonal changes. So once you have identified the pattern of what is the outlier, then you come up with the ingredients to add, okay, let's say exfoliation, you need to add salicylic acid or benzoyl peroxide to make it in the drug OTC category, we need to add an ingredient to reduce the oil secretion. So you add five answer five alpha-reductase inhibitor, which reduces oil secretion, then you want to also have to moisturize the product. So you have to add moisturizer, but it is good for oily skin. And then poor control, you want to also add ingredient for the pores, usually the people with acne, they may have the board's enlarge. So you want to add something for pores. And then the last one is inflammation. With most of the people with acne, they have inflammation of the sebaceous gland. So you want to add something for inflammation and something to also reduce the bacteria. So you will add those ingredients. Now we have come up with let's say five, six ingredients, you want to put it into base, then you design a base that you feel is it a daytime application nighttime application? So you put it in the product? Come up with the design? Yeah,
Lara Schmoisman 22:03
I have a question here. Yes, everything that you were telling us is great products, great ingredients. But how do you make your product different from the other products in the market? -
Ashkay Talati 22:14
Yeah, so yeah, so again, in this particular case, right acne, so you have to then see, what's the competition out there? What is new research? So the newest research in acne is how to change the microbiome of the skin? So you come up with you look at research, what new ingredients are there with a supplier? Or can you come up with a new combination yourself? Is there a patented technology out there that you want to use? So example for me, if I was to create a new acne product, I will come up with something which changes the microbiome of the skin to make it lesser acne prone.
Lara Schmoisman 22:53
So to make that type of a product, because they come from the marketer in me, how can I market a product that is going to be Yes. Wonderful branding, and I can really use that as a marketing story. But at the end of the day, if the product is not at par and different than what is Yeah, it's really hard for me to market.
Ashkay Talati 23:10
Yeah. So again, so that microbiome, the other thing is you can tap into certain cultures, right? Is there a certain cultures that have certain ingredients in used in their ethnicity? Like, you know, is there something used in China, India, Korea, and you bring up the technology to make that unique point of difference in the product? And sometimes it's synergy. Should you use retinol, retinol in acne products, things like that. So you I think you come up with newness based on the brand philosophy also. So if it's a natural clean beauty brand you come up with certain ingredients
Lara Schmoisman 23:46
I really love that you said that because yeah, again, my friends we're going back to the deck and how important is to have the brand and keep true to your brand right not to eat when if something that you think that is going to be trending if he doesn't align with your brand, you're diluting your brand and your brand is not going to be your brand anymore.
Ashkay Talati 24:06
Yeah, it's absolutely like if it's a dermatology brand like a brand like Sarah we clinic, then you have to look at dermatological tripe ingredients which resonates with dermatologists. If it's a natural type of brand, then you have to use ingredients like which is all centella asiatica norm you know, which are more aligned with that consumer performance you can get from both.
Lara Schmoisman 24:29
I want to be a myth buster for a second. Yes. They are pretty words that are being put out there for fellow marketers to that there for example, there are a lot of brands I should plant here. There are a lot of brands that we call them that they are there could be medical doctor recommended. That's a marketing tool doesn't mean the ingredients are going to be any different from any other brand because they in order to have different ingredients you need to be FDA approval, and then you're gonna make medical grade. What is exactly? Medical? Yeah. So
Ashkay Talati 25:03
again, it's. So again, it's branding, right? So let's say there is a molecule, and it is highly purified, or it's also used in certain pharmaceutical products, and it is purified to the pharmaceutical grade, the marketers may use a term like, oh, with medical grade, XYZ ingredient, or with medical grade technology and all that, again, it's something to elevate their brand as a buzzword.
Lara Schmoisman 25:27
It doesn't mean that it's a better product, that one that it would not.
Ashkay Talati 25:31
But again, it's it's all psychology and perception, right? So if that makes a difference for the consumer to use it more, maybe then it's relevant, right? So if by reading that the consumers thinks it is working for it's like a placebo effect,
Lara Schmoisman 25:45
So it comes with a price tag, many times they use a price tag, and not always truthful marketing.
Ashkay Talati 25:49
But you know, so but, but it exists everywhere. People will say, I have experts and natural, my formula is more sustainable. I guess it's I think it's the name of the game right now, because everybody's trying to penetrate a saturated market. So what can they say different than the others? So
Lara Schmoisman 26:14
Yeah, I love the Cassiar saying all my keywords, my favorite words lately, you're talking about sustainability right now. And they're really claiming a lot of Randa to sustainability is using certain kinds of packaging, certain kinds of materials. But at the end of the day, there are many other ways of being sustainable is normally not only like the products that we use, is like, for example, how you ship products, or how you storage products. And I feel like there are a lot of parts of being sustainable that I, maybe me but I prefer to have be a lot more conscious of the quantity that I create in the product that they're going to be selling and that I don't have to trash product, that maybe in a packaging, that also is going to be a lot more expensive than using other packaging.
Ashkay Talati 27:05
Yeah. And again, like you said, there is a lot of myths in sustainability. Also, sustainability is no longer a buzzword now. It's almost like a necessity that every brand will have to have a sustainability message. If you look at it, like the all the sales of the products that are happening, there is a spike with products that are making sustainability messaging. But the sustainability can be like is it manufacturing, transport, packaging, cartons, ingredients, it's so many things, right. And I think there is also a myth that natural means it's more sustainable, it's not true. Sometimes a natural ingredient may take 10 steps to make it purified. And you actually use more resources. And sometimes actually synthetic is more sustainable, because you use lesser resources to make a synthetic molecule. And that's why I am always of the prop proponent, that by use synthetic for performance when it's easy, simpler, pure molecule, instead of wiping out an entire plantation of plants to get one gram of molecule.
Lara Schmoisman 28:10
The same with transportation. So maybe in order to to meet the MOQ of quantities, you have something that that is not completely by degradable, but you have something but you're not shipping it in certain way. There's so many things that you need to see in the big picture. When you create a new product, what is going to come from, and also cost is important and the end of the day because this is a business and they need to be profitable.
Ashkay Talati 28:37
Cause the weather your package, is it glass plastic, actually aluminum packages, which existed 30 years ago is coming back people are now moving back to aluminum packaging.
Lara Schmoisman 28:51
So but again, they're very hard to produce and the aluminum.
Ashkay Talati 28:54
Yeah. So again, while aluminum is recyclable, it is more sustainable. But I guess the processing, you would also see the back end processing, how much effort does actually go into product production of aluminium packaging?
Lara Schmoisman 29:11
Exactly. Or shipping because it's not easy to find somewhere that they're going to go do a good and efficient aluminum packaging.
Ashkay Talati 29:20
Yeah. But again, if you look at the pharmaceutical industry always uses aluminum packaging. It is more good, better for the formula stability, it is more user-friendly. The only problem is that it's not going to be that attractive. Because now you know you cannot make very different variations. Exactly.
Lara Schmoisman 29:42
But also there again different when you were happy new formula new package in the pharmaceutical unit. You know that they're going from the big quantities because these Yeah, and nobody can compete in the industry. You are really the orders you're gonna receive as a for a new brand unless that you have a huge production like L'Oreal, you're are going to be having your orders are going to be at this smaller where the beginning is going to be smaller and you're still has a short shelf life.
Ashkay Talati 30:17
Yeah, yeah, shelf life. And I think and also again in the pharmaceutical industry, you're the people are buying the product, not for the like the looks on the packet, they go to a pharmacy, and they want the treatment done. Within three, four days they want the wound or whatever the Zima to go away. They're not focused on the package here in beauty industry. It's the complete package of the you know, the experience. So the elegance of the package plays a big role also.
Lara Schmoisman 30:46
Absolutely. So New year, New Year, new year is huge for the beauty industry, everyone trying to make it a new Year's resolution of looking their best. Many of us say we're gonna start exercising more, we're gonna be better to our body and skincare is one of those. So what are the trends for this coming year?
Ashkay Talati 31:10
Um, so I think one of the biggest trends that you're going to see is I can I because I have been in the industry a long time I the superficial trends that you will see will be more of fermentation and biotechnology. more natural, more sustainable, more upcycling microbiome, so these will always be there. But I think a lot microbiome,
Lara Schmoisman 31:34
I think it was kind of the 2023 theme,
Ashkay Talati 31:40
that it's still there, it still will be there. Okay, it's still there
Lara Schmoisman 31:44
2022 For example, for me, I see I never seen in a year so many serums coming out, yeah.
Ashkay Talati 31:52
Serum is still the I think in the product wise you will see. So if you now so that I gave it the top line right that always will be there. But I think the now if we go one layer down, I think people are going to go towards simplicity. The formulas will be going towards targeted delivery simpler formula is more focused, the percentage game still will be there. Unfortunately, people will still try to give the numbers game Oh, I'm I have X percentage, unfortunately. But one of the big trends that you will see, not it's already started is that over the last 1020 years, chemistry was driving the technology, chemistry was driving biology. But now you will see that biology is going to drive chemistry, biology will come to the forefront in coming up with new ideas and new technology and the reason being that there are 8 billion people on the planet. There is no way that the beauty industry can come up with resource of resourceful and sustainable solutions for these people. Right. So you will see a lot of biotech come up front. Sustainable cleaner ways of making materials in the lab. So you will see more bioengineered lab-grown materials that are going to come up in the winter more efficient and it's already started. And it's well with a lot of precision. You are like example one I already saw retinol. So retinol has been a synthetic molecule. I already saw one company come up with a fermented retinol source. So you will see more and more of that
Lara Schmoisman 33:35
And something else have been seen. It's that they sent with some cross-overs into the beauty and cosmetic industry. Do you see that as well?
Ashkay Talati 33:45
Beauty and wellness? Wellness? Yes. Yeah. So again, that's the new messaging you will see that the merger of wellness and beauty, it will March Wellness and beauty So meditation, yoga, wellness, calming, feeling good neuro cosmetics, so mind and body you will see a lot of functional fragrances which give you balance so function therapy or I read all of that the mind and wellness because that is the new trend because you know people have exploited naturals people have exploited antioxidant people have exploited all these dermatological ingredients. So now what's next? So there will be a merger of wellness like a total holistic beauty.
Lara Schmoisman 34:36
Yeah, I agree with you. I really agree with you that yeah, see into on I maybe we should have another conversation at the end of the year again and see if we were right.
Ashkay Talati 34:46
Yeah, I mean it's already happening like even you know a lot of brands are already pushing the messages of climate beauty, eco-conscious beauty, personal beauty. There is one more thing is like If you look at that, again, you see the trend will already happening. Most of Gen X and Gen Z have grown up in the app world, their time has always been on the computer, tick tock Instagram, they are you losing the human connection. So, what will happen is the cosmetic brands will almost now promote human mingling, they will promote interaction between humans instead of just marketing online their product you will see the shift, they will almost want the consumers coming back to the stores
Lara Schmoisman 35:34
Snd honestly as a mother of Z I love it.
Ashkay Talati 35:39
Yeah, you will see that you'll see the shift.
Lara Schmoisman 35:41
Yes, absolutely. Well, I was such a good time talking to you. I really love it that I could talk into you forever. But I have the philosophy that podcasting should be short, and a car ride. I always say that my car. I mean, everyone who ever is robbing Los Angeles knows that everything is at least 30 minutes even going very close what by so I can listen to my podcast. And if I didn't finish, I can say a few minutes later and keep listeners in my parking lot. But let's do this again at another time, maybe by the end of the year or next year. And we'll see how this year came up with the trends and what we can say what it was the new.
Ashkay Talati 36:27
Great, thank you, Lara. This was enjoyable. And there's so much to talk like it's like I'm like I didn't even realize the time when so far. I know. Thank you so much.
Lara Schmoisman 36:35
Thank you. Thank you and to you guys. I will see you next week with more, find everything you need at LaraSchmoisman.com, Or in the Episode Notes right below. Don't forget to subscribe. It was so good to have you here today. See you next time. Catch you on the flip side. Ciao ciao.