How Podcast Guesting Helps You Fulfill Your Purpose w/ Alex Sanfilippo, Founder of Podmatch

Are you struggling to find the right people to share your message with - people who actually want to learn from you and become life-long fans and supporters? 

Being a guest on the right podcasts can make all that happen - but it starts with learning what you need to do to find these podcasts, and more importantly, become someone who instantly provides what these hosts need and want. 

On this episode, we talk to someone who is a respected authority on the podcast industry - Alex Sanfilippo, founder of Podmatch, a podcasting hosting and guesting matching service. With over a decade of experience as an entrepreneur, SaaS solution founder, and podcaster, he has discovered how the right approaches can supercharge your message and mission - and help you fulfill the God-given purpose you're been given. 

ABOUT OUR GUEST 

Alex Sanfilippo is a podcaster and the founder of PodMatch.com, a platform that automatically matches podcast hosts and guests for interviews. Through PodMatch and his podcast titled Podcasting Made Simple, Alex helps independent podcasters grow their influence and revenue so they can better serve their listeners!

Learn more about Podmatch 

Hear Allen's episode on Podcasting Made Simple

Transcript

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Podcasting is becoming more and more popular every day, but getting on the right podcast seems to be getting harder and harder. So if you're building a brand, sharing a message, or creating something powerful, how do you connect consistently with shows that truly fit your message and help you spread the word? Well, today we're talking with Alex Sanfilippo, founder of PodMatch. And by the end of this episode, you'll know how to approach guesting on podcasts with clarity, confidence, and a strategy that helps you to spread your message, grow your platform, and fulfill your purpose. I'm your host, Alan C. Paul, and this is The God in Gigs Show, where we help you to become the creator that you were created to be. Ladies and gentlemen, Alex Sanfilippo, how are you doing my friend? Alan, it's so good to be with you here today, man. I feel like this has been a long time coming as a long-term listener your show. I don't know how many years we've been friends now. This is like a bucket list thing. So I'm just glad to be here today with you and everybody who's checking us out. I truly have reached a pinnacle. Yes. Once Alex has been on my show after he's like, okay, so I always do. Yeah. We got to get all the bro stuff out in front, right? So that we don't waste people's time. But yes, like from creating a brand, like that's where I start, brother. I go back to your creating a brand. I'm not sure how I found your show. Like for real, like that's the marketing for you, right? Like I'm not sure how it popped up on my feed, but it was like, okay, this guy gets to the point. It goes right for it. And I'm learning every single episode. And then your work ethic just shamed me. Like how, how is he putting out so many episodes? Like one after the other, after the other is just nailing it. So I was already a fan long before we became friends and then our wives and just getting to hang out at pod fest and things like that. So let's, you know, we can start there before we get into like all the serious questions, like just the community, man, like just talk a little bit about. and your feelings, your desire to see your relationships build off of what's happened. I guess what? How long have you been in podcasting now? I actually started my first show in 2014. The dates get blurry, Alan, you know how that goes, right? Zach, as you get older and this show, the episodes pile up. But yeah, so we're talking like at the time of recording over 11 years. So just give me a quick, like, man, how much this community meant for you over the last, how's it changed over the last 11 years Yeah, for sure. And I'll keep this centered on the podcasting side of things just so it can kind of stay like at that level. uh Outside of podcasting, I'm super grateful uh to have an incredible wife and to have just an incredible community, which I actually found through church small groups. And that was kind of connected to my very first podcast is my wife and I, started leading a bunch of like the small group leader team. It was for a young adult ministry. It was called sub 30 at church celebration church in Jacksonville, Florida. And so we were like leading that and there was like questions that were coming up. So I was like, I'm going to build a a podcast because I do like to talk and I don't get a whole lot of opportunities. So I kind of build a podcast to just be a continuation of some of the education training that we had going on with the groups and stuff like that. So that was like my introduction to it. So how to get really great built-in community with that. And still this day, if I look back to that time of my life, many of my just most solid friendships I still have today were found or founded within small groups of just people showing up and us getting to meet each other. So I'm really grateful for that. And that was my introduction to podcasting as well. And kind of to flip it to the podcasting community side of things, Alan, I had no idea in 2014 that anyone else was podcasting. I'm be real. Like I had heard like the celebrity shows, a few of them are out there, but I was like, there's not a community around this. And it was years later that I found out there was. You referenced creating a brand, which was my show for people who wanted to leave a nine to five job, become a successful entrepreneur and like kind of how to do that. And it wasn't me training. So I don't want to sound like some sort of guru. I was bringing people on who had successfully done that. At that point, I was still in a corporate job myself. But I started doing that that show got a lot of recognition. And a lot of my friends that were like outside of the church space started like just poking fun because that's what you do when you have close friends, right? They kind of poke fun at you. And so podcasting was still dorky back then. So I had one of my buddies who was always giving me a hard time about it. He's like, you're to go to that nerdy podcasting conference in Orlando? And I just laughed. was like, oh, whatever dude, there's not a podcasting conference. He's like, yeah, there is. I saw an ad for it. And I was like, No, dude, there's definitely no podcasting conferences. And he like found it, pulled up. He's like this. I was like, this is next week. I was like, yeah, a hundred percent. I'm going, I didn't know there was like people who podcast, right? Like I thought it was us like hiding in a dark room. Not wanting people to know who we are. Right. So, um, right. So that's it. So anyway, long story short, I go to that event and that's actually the event. I don't think we met that year, that first year, but that was at podfest and it was in Orlando, Florida. And what do know? There was a podcasting community. So I, uh grateful to have had just really strong, faith-centered friendships in my life. And here I was with my creative endeavors. It kind of felt a little bit siloed, although I was very bold about my faith any chance I got the opportunity to share it. um But here I finally met other people in the space and I quickly just fell in love with podcasting. I fell in love with what it was and it really deeply hit a core belief of mine and a conviction that God has put in my heart, which is to give a voice to people they don't have a voice. and many of which being believers. If I go back to that first podcast I had, the faith-based one, I started posting it everywhere and at first it got a lot of traction. And I don't mean to bring up the changes on social media, the political stuff that comes with it, but I can remember one day thousands of people every day were engaging with the podcast and then woke up one day and it went to zero. And I was like, what happened? Like did I miss up a connection somewhere? No, it turns out any social feed I was sharing it on just decided like no more No more Christian stuff, right? Like if it was about that, that needs to go away. And I know a lot of people say like, that didn't really happen and stuff, but like at that point I had a really big website with tens of thousands of people visiting every day. And most of the traffic was driven straight from social media, from groups and stuff like that, like all the platforms. And so I have like all the data to prove it. Like something switched overnight. It wasn't like a gradual switch. was that today it works, the next day it didn't. And so like going back to that, just desire got my heart to give a voice, to help people find their voice and to be able to get it out there. I realized that podcasting is one medium that people cannot cancel. And it's one of the reasons it's been really not loved by most of the big social platforms because they feel like, we can't control this thing called RSS, which is the technology it's built on. Therefore, we're just going to say it's bad, right? Like it's bad because we can't put our parameters on it. We can't control it the way we want to. And so I really decided to double down on podcasting. That's how I really was. That's why I was really excited to get into the community because I was like, man, I can help. be part of the voice. Like not that I'm the only solution out there or the one at the top of this thing or anything like that, but I'm doing my part every day to help just the one person I know I can help. And that's a bit of a long winded answer, Alan. I hope I wasn't too all over the place. you weren't all over the place. This is exactly why I love just digging in and immediately starting with what is on our hearts, which is relationship, community, building something. You answered the question before and even had the chance to ask it, which was now that you have been inside the podcasting industry, you've seen the data, you have been in the trenches with these podcasters, helping them find guests, helping them connect through PodMatch, helping them through your speaking and your coaching and all this other stuff. And I was going to ask what you already answered it. What is gravity? What is pulling you more? The medium itself, the met the methods, right? All this stuff or the message. And I think what you just said answered the question, which it sounds like the message of owning your content, having a voice, not being able to be cancelable. Right. Uh, a friend, Adam Curry calls RSS rock solid signal because it can't be taken away because it exists in this place where Again, thank goodness for now, no one else has any ability to be the gatekeepers of it. So just tell me, is that the pool, like still, after all the stuff you learned, it's still about the message of giving people that voice to say what their faith says, whatever that is that God put in their heart? You know, thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify this, Alan. think it's really important because if you look at what I do, that show creating a brand has been sunset, the faith-based one has been sunset as well, and now my show is called Podcasting Made Simple, which focuses on, and you're actually one of the favorite guests of all time on the show, by the way. I need to make sure I grab a link, we need to put a link to that for people to hear. It's really, really good, but I digress. Anyway, but the whole idea is that is the education side. then, so my show, Podcast Made Simple, and then my company, Podmatch, which is a service that automatically connects podcasts, guests, and hosts for interviews. I would say it works like a dating app, instead of connecting for dates, connecting for podcast interviews. If you look at what I'm doing, the assumption is my focus is the tactics. My focus is the, the analytic side, like the education side. And I love all of that. Don't get me wrong. That is just my mechanism though. My end goal, my route, what I really want is to give a voice to people and help them be able to find their own superpower, what they can communicate. And if it's okay, Alan, I'd love to just kind of share my heart behind that, even if that's all right for just a second here. um When I was podcasting early on, I didn't know if anyone was listening. know how like it kind of everyone, everyone like at church and the small group people, they're like, oh, it's great. It's great. I'm like, okay, cool. Like I never heard from anyone that like, didn't know already knew what I was doing. And I know where I get this email one day from this, this, this woman, I don't even remember her name. Um, she didn't want to connect. She just wanted to share her experience based off something that I had said on the podcast. She mentioned that she had been in an abusive relationship for seven years and never could find a way to get free of it. And something I said, which was not on that topic at all, but something I said caused her to finally realize it. And when she emailed me, this was like many months later, she had like basically moved out, got a new job, like moved to a new place. basically her life had turned around completely. And she was just saying, like, God used you for that. And I just wanted to say thank you. And that was it. I responded to something nice, never heard back again. That was fine. Like I didn't need to, right? Didn't need to go any deeper into that. But I was like, Whoa, that's I could podcast forever from that one story. is there like, don't, I don't know if I ever need to hear anything else. And here's what I realized. I'm like, I know that I didn't say, I went back and listened to the episode. I'm like, I didn't say anything like out of this world that no one had ever said before. Right. But what I realized, and I'll use this story of in my own life of this is sometimes people need your voice. And I'm not just talking to Alan, talk to everyone who's hearing this today. Sometimes people need your voice to say something in a certain way to actually make it click. And the example I can give is one of my brothers love him to death. um He hasn't had the best relationships in his life. And I've given him lot of relationship, relationship advice over the years, right? And I tell him, I tell him like, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, right? I feel like I'm just keep on saying the same thing. And I know it's really good advice. Never takes any of it. And then one day, this is years ago, this kid comes up and he goes, dude, I just got the best advice ever about relationships. Like, really, what was it? He proceeds to say exactly what I've been telling him for years, right? I wanted to punch the kid in the face, but somebody else said it slightly different in a way that it actually clicked. And the thing is, that's why I think that every unique voice matters. Like many of us, might be saying, we're in the faith. There's so many pillars of the faith today. Like I can't share anything that TD Jakes can't share. can't share anything that this individual can't share, right? Like there's all these names, but the reality is your voice might be the only one that makes it click for somebody. Like that woman that I shared about and like my brother when someone else shared something I had been sharing for years, right? That's what I believe in is helping make that voice get heard in the world. And yes, I focus on the tactics, but really my passion, my heart is let's get these voices heard and elevated throughout the world. So said so well and the verse immediately comes to mind my friend is Paul talked about this right Paul watered uh I Paul planted Apollo's watered but God gave the increase and that's the key and I love the fact that you have So clear a goal of a why you sent out a message to many of us Christian podcasters inside a pod match even a little while ago and I still see people commenting that are saying thank you for giving me the the encouragement to say what I need to say and not pay so much attention to the stats and the downloads. And I am fighting that same battle that every single content creator is fighting against the algorithm, right? The evil algorithm. And yet that why is what keeps us going. And I'm so glad you said that from someone again, who's knee deep in the data all the time. And yet you've got that message. But I want to make sure I link into something you just said about voices. because we are podcast hosts, right? We're on this side of the mic, we're producing, we're creating, but many, many, many, many, many more people are on the other side. They have a message, but they don't have a show. And I, even I, you and I talked about this, even off the air about where's our focus. And I want more people to have that voice and to pick up the mic and create shows, but many of them won't. Many of them got in the guest community or just saying, hey, I'm a painter, I'm an artist, I'm a musician, I'm a singer. That's what I want to do. But now we have this mic. on the other side where people are asking them to share their message. So what would be your first message to anyone that's thinking, no, I don't need to share my message on the podcast. I don't need to be a guest. There's too many people out there sharing it. Everybody wants to be a guest. No one's going to want to hear my voice. What would be that first thing to get them like number one into the whole point of why you should be a guest on the podcast? It's all about adding value. It's all about serving other people. I think back to one of my guests who was reluctant to come to my show because he had never been on one before and didn't think he had a message to share. He came on and shared in an extremely just beautiful way. And it was one of my most impactful episodes I'll say I ever had from somebody who's like, I don't really have anything to share. And people did not agree with him on that, right? Like, obviously, like the data analytics showed the amount of comments I received, the amount of people trying to reach out to him. Like no one agreed with the notion of I didn't have anything to share. And I think that that's the case for most of us. We do have a message. It might not mean that we need to be on a podcast every day. It might not mean we need to go on multiple shows. There's all these different things it could or could not mean, but the reality is I think at least once getting your message out there to the world so that you can share that for a long time, right? This is legacy building stuff. Like these episodes never go away. That's a beautiful thing to be able to have. And who knows what you might discover about your voice when you get into that. You might hear from people saying, wow, I didn't know that and I needed that. Maybe that means try it again, right? But I do always say like, listen, having a show isn't for everybody. If you feel like, hey, there's something here I really want to, by all means do it. There needs to be more podcasts out there. If you're like, maybe I just want to share once, be a guest. I think it's a really great thing to do. I love it. yeah, I think about number one, said about people's voice. That's one of the first things we all struggle with, whether you're a guest or a host. We were just laughing about one of our friends who has an amazing podcast voice. sounds like he should be on radio and on the TV stuff. And we were like, oh, I wish I could have that kind of voice. What are some of the things again, cause you literally created a platform where hosts can connect with guests. So I've gotten all the pitches I've heard from so many people. And there are the pros and the cons, the good and the bad of sharing what your message is. So what would be some of those tips? I know that this is an easy one for you. This is kind like a softball because you see this all the time. But again, someone's listening for the first time, maybe in my community, who's just never said, Hey, well, what are the A, B and C's of approaching somebody looking for someone that aligns with your message and sharing it? So what are those couple of tips that you would give someone who's now saying, okay, all right, I hear you, Alex, I should be on the show. But other than joining pod match, what's the next step? Yeah, I maybe don't even recommend joining pod match from day one. Like if you're just going to do one show, I don't think that that would, I'm not trying to push any people away from my own product, right? But like just being real, I think that there's some things you should do before that. First off, just, I know I don't go too deep in the data, but like there is an industry report that I helped develop which shows the ratio of guests and hosts. And at any given point right now, at time recording this, there's a 41 to one ratio, 41 people trying to be a guest to every one show that's in existence. It's out of balance. It doesn't mean you can't do this. It just means you have to be willing to do something that other people won't be willing to do. To me, step one is, is why do you want to do it? And I'll tell you this because Alan and Alex said so is not a good enough. Why? Like there needs to, it needs to go far beyond that. Right. I'm telling you right now, any host he says to me like, who the heck is Alex Sanfilippo? Right. And who, who's this Alan Paul guy? Right. Like people are going to be like, listen, I can't have you on the show for that. Like you need to have a why that goes deeper than that. And that's going to go to your core. I recommend grabbing pen and paper and writing down. Why do I want to be on a podcast? What message do I have to share? And who is it really for? So why and what, and then who is that going to be for? And what that means is like, you might not know exactly who's listening, but you can look at a show and kind of see, you get a pretty good idea of who's probably listening to it. Is that a line going back up that trail to your why, to how you're going impact them, to who they are? Like you want to really look at this. And to me, that is absolute step one. Right along with that is doing your research, your preparation before you even reach out. And then after you reach out as well, but before you even reach out, like looking around a little bit, so many people today, what they do with this huge out of balance ratio we have, they just look for the biggest shows. And so there's many ways you can sort by biggest shows, top of the charts. That's the show I need to be on without even listening, without having any clue. They just say, big audience, I need to do it. And the reality is podcasting just doesn't really work like that. The best way I can describe it is a podcast is like people sitting in seats. So the listeners are people sitting in seats and the host and the guests are sitting on stage. You don't need a massive room for it to be valuable. You just need it to be the right room. just, it's gotta be the right spot, right? If you go to a room with 10,000 people and you're sitting on stage, but it's all homeschool moms looking for ways to better their kids' education and you talk about luxury cars, you're on the wrong stage. It'd be better to go into a room with a hundred CEOs, right? that are looking for their next cool hobby or investment and you're talking about luxury cars to them, which room is more valuable? One has 10,000, one has a hundred. The room with a hundred is more valuable for you because it's unique. You can only determine this by doing your research and research does not mean looking for the top charts, finding the biggest show saying that's the one. Alan, I got to ask you any thoughts on this before? Cause I have more to share, but I'm just wondering like any thoughts on this? like as soon as you started talking about the difference between that room, right? The right room. And so that'd be my one thing to say to everybody that's like looking at it. Again, I get these same pitches where they're blanket, they're cookie cutter. They're like, oh, here's a show. He must want them on. And I'm like, no, you did not listen to my show. I am not a good fit for you. And then my best thing is to say no. Right. That's the crazy thing is like, I'm trying to do them a favor by helping them narrow down their pitches and not go to the wrong room. Cause my room is the wrong room for many of these people that are looking. But if you're the right person and you're the right connection, man, that can elevate both my show and the person that's coming on my show. That's what it is. It's really like a mutual thing. I think, does that make sense? It's a mutual thing where you realize that, Hey, we're both getting value out of this. And then when you lead with that, you lead by as like we both say, serve first. If you want to serve that person, that host, I believe that, yeah, then you're going to get a lot more people who are saying, yes, I'd like you to be on my show and you're going to feel better at the end of it. So yeah, so those are my thoughts when you said that. Yeah, that's so good. I recently wrote for an article for Forbes about being a guest on a podcast and you referenced the idea of saying no and I think that applies to both sides. One of my main points was as a podcast guest when you start doing well and hosts see that you share it and stuff like that, more hosts want you on and I really honed in on the point of saying no is really important when it's the wrong show and it's interesting because the Forbes editorial team did not agree with that. Like this doesn't make sense. You want to get on all of them, you want to get on more of them. I'm like, no, you want to get on the right ones. I'm like, read what I said. Like it's about the right shows because you will burn yourself out being on a hundred thousand different shows. Right. And the reality is there's probably only 10 or 20 that you need to be on within the next year or a couple of years that really make a difference and move the needle and matter because it's the space where your voice will get heard. And so I love that you brought up that idea of saying no. And I think it's a really important, it's important for both sides of the microphone to help each other stay focused. A no is, is not a rejection. It's a redirection. Mmm. many of us, need to think about the word no, and we hear it because you will as a podcast guest, you could do everything right. And in a minute, I'll share about even a great pitch that I use to build a reach out. I still hear no, but I just remember it's not a rejection. It's a redirection. It means I went to the wrong show. Even though did my research, there's something about it that wasn't going to be right. It's better to go on to the right show instead. And not just a no redirection could be just not the right time, right? It could be just not the right time. Like we need to be aware that our message may not be the right one at that particular time or that right fit. But I love this. I want you to share a little bit because we are talking to a lot of our fellow believers, right? there is a something we have to say out loud, which is just because you are a Christian and your beliefs are Christian does not mean you need to be on every Christian podcast. I think it goes it goes hand in hand. I think it needs to be said in this form because I think there's an assumption that, if I have the same faith, I think the same thing that they think that then their message is my message. Again, y'all, it's not always the case. Can you speak to that a little bit in terms of just again, like. being a little more specific about those of who think, well, if their message is my message, it must be that I need to be connected with them and on every platform. I've, again, I've seen many shows that I realized I'm not aligned with them just because we have the same faith. Yeah, it's insightful to notice that because I think that many of us, that's the core of our life. So we identify that, hey, if it's Christian, I'm in, right? And the reality is that's not a bad perspective to have, but we do need to look more narrow, more niche, okay? Because like that can go a lot of ways. Like there are Christian shows about overcoming grief. There are Christian shows about being an athlete. Well, if you're only one or the other, then both shows aren't good for you, right? And so that's a perfect example of that. Now, I think it really does matter. uh An example, I recently had somebody reach out to me like I'm a believer. My show is called podcasting made simple. It is about being a better podcast guest or podcast host. And she had a uh really, um really motivating story about how she came to the faith and how it like really turned her life around. And she wanted to share my podcast. And I just said, Hey, like, I know we're both believers and she knew I was she kind of brought that up. So she did her time to research and like, but it won't resonate with my audience. Like that's not who I speak to. And she was really upset about it. She's like, like you don't, you're not going to give a platform for people to share their, their testimonies. And I was like, yeah, sure it did. It, it, listen, it turned into a good conversation back and forth. And I was just kind like, listen, like that, that's not what my, that's not what God gave me on a platform for. Like there are places you can do that. Even on pod match, there are plenty of places where that is very appropriate. It's what they're looking for. If I have this person that is not saved and I can teach them how to get a better microphone to sound better as a podcast guest, I now have a little bit of influence with them so that they may be interested in hearing my faith. But if I tell them, I got the right microphone choice for you, but first you gotta listen to this, this Testament of how someone found Jesus. I am, I am losing that credibility. And so like you said, like we've to be somewhat strategic as believers in today's world, especially. We need to gain influence. However, God gives us the way to do that. Podcasting is the lane that he has given me. Influence in and so I use that and eventually my faith always comes up because I told God from day one any platform I'm on I'm going to mention you even if it's for a brief moment However, I can work it and I'm going to today Alan you made it very easy for me to do that But normally I do have to like actually work for it and some people don't appreciate that that sometimes the host and that's why I'll keep it really short really brief in a way that doesn't offend anybody But I get the opportunity to just plant that seed right now And so I know there's a long-winded answer, but listen, not all podcasts are created equal. Even if the foundational level, your faith is the same. I would just instead recommend encouraging them, leaving that show review saying, Hey, like I'm not going to be the right fit as a guest, but I wanted to acknowledge Alan. I heard your podcast. left it a five star rating and review. That's how you can impact. That's how you can help. And the reality is opening up that communication might actually lead you to someone like Alan saying, Hey, yeah, you're right. Not a good fit for me, but my friend so-and-so. might really like to talk to you. And you don't do it for that reason, but like, let's build each other up. Let's do it that way. Well, no, I mean, you don't do it for that reason, but it is 100 % a biblical principle. It is true that he who waters will be watered, right? He who refers to the refresh, be not weary in well-doing, but in due season you'll reap. All these things are about, yes, it's the golden rule. so business do it, we do it all the time, Alex. Like, I don't think we need to shy away from the both and. Yes, you're serving others by saying, hey, I wanna promote your podcast. I wanna help you out. I don't wanna be the person on the show. I want to be a servant and like, hey, promote it, share it with other people, and maybe they do know somebody, right? They do know somebody. I'm very aware that my relationships and my network has built beyond my own capacity because I served first, because I want to help other people like you, man. Like, this is what I'm talking about. Like, when I see something that pod matches happen, I'm always going to be the number one cheerleader, but it's not because I want to know the people you want to know. It's because you have an amazing message and amazing product. That being said, I'm also very aware. that I want to be in rooms with people who I do want to learn from and impact. So I don't think, I think a lot of times we do get into that. And this is kind of like in the weeds of like the ethics of podcasting, but it's true. Like I think you can live on both sides. You can say, I want to serve. And you can be very aware of that. Hey, if I serve well, God's going to bring that back to me. I don't know who I'm going to meet. I don't know what connection is going to be made, but I know this is the way to do it. The way to do it is to serve first and then wait for the opportunities to come my way. versus trying to engineer them. I think it's just a different mentality. Yeah, I totally agree you on that. think that's hard for us to do, I encourage everyone here in this, rewind this a little bit. That's old school. Hit back a couple of times. 30 second part, right? I said rewind. Go back a few times and listen that again, because there's a really powerful message there for us all. that's just good wisdom that's going to serve you long-term in and out of podcasting. Absolutely. And I just want to point to you in terms of your quarterly event is a perfect example of this. Because when you do those quarterly events, I see you next to people that I'm like, how does he know that person? How does it, and I know you never angled for this. These are real relationships that now they are a podcast guest, you're a host on their show, you're guest on their shows and so on. But these are all authentic relationships that you built over time. And then again, we mentioned like you've been doing this since 2014. and you've built other things in terms of ministries, built on relationships. So it's just a natural thing. So I think when they rewind it, they'll hear the heart of that. We're talking about relationships and they naturally build value over time, like whether you like it or not. That's just the way that it works. So I love this. I want to ask you before we keep going about some of the specifics of your journey, because we talked a lot about podcasting. We talked a lot about how people should be able to find guests, but... That I did read some things about you, man, that I did not realize. Like I did not realize that at one point you had this massive blog. Um, I did not realize, knew I heard about your time in the aerospace industry, but just realizing that again, we're talking to some people who are navigating that between creator, leaving behind some things, some things and pushing their message forward. So I just wanted you to encourage somebody who might be right around that fence of. God's putting something in my heart to share, but it doesn't necessarily align with what I'm doing right now. Because that first show they might be showing up on might be the one where they're finally showing up and saying, wait a minute, I'm not just this corporate thing or this particular parent or whatever, but I'm also this. So talk a little bit about how you made that transition from just worker, just employee to a creator. And when you started sharing your message. Yeah, first off, there was a lot of overlap and I think that that's okay. I think that many of us, desire this clean break of like I left corporate, became a full-time creator, but the reality is it's very, very rare that that happens and that might not even be the best way for it to happen. That's almost kind of like winning the lottery. Like you might not build the discipline that you need along the way if you win the lottery. saying it's a terrible thing, right? But like you're not going to build the discipline of understanding how to manage finances and things like that. And the same is true as a creator. Sometimes with the overlap, teaches you to learn to be efficient. If you had no job, no income, and somehow you start making money as a creator or just like happened overnight, you're still going to probably be fairly inefficient because you have so much time on your hands. So for me, I'm actually grateful of the overlap. So I did 15 years in the aerospace industry. And before someone thinks I did anything cool, I was not an astronaut, was not a skydiver and was not a fighter pilot. I worked at a aerospace company that focused below the atmosphere on parts manufacturing. And I worked my up to the C-suite level, that company really enjoyed that job. On the side of it for the last eight years that I was at that company, I started building a blog. And so just on the side, it was my creative element because what I just mentioned, that job I had, very analytical, very administrative, very like management type stuff, right? Like corporate America to a T. And again, I loved it. It was not... scratching the itch of creativeness, right? Like I just didn't really have that opportunity. So I started that blog going back to when I was leading small groups with my wife at church. And the blog was basically where the podcast was born from as well. And the whole idea was just helping believers get closer to Jesus who were struggling or people maybe they weren't even following Jesus yet to be able to find Jesus. And like that was the whole idea around it. And it did really well. It started with just me writing. And at first I was writing five days a week because I loved it so much. Wow. See what I said about the work ethic? Let me say the work ethic. See, that's what I'm telling you, man. Like, nobody outworks you, bro. Five days a week, I'm struggling to get two days a week. Well, just so you know, I ended up doing once a month. So I worked my way down to once a month. No problem. That was my good cadence. we kind of, I say we, was me and then Alicia started helping my wife. And then we brought on three other people to help run it. And long story short, we ended up with over 140, somewhat, believe it was 140 different authors that were using it, publishing on it and all writing content. And that's why I dropped down to once a month. That was my slot that I was given from the team. But my slot also came with a podcast episode. So I was doing one podcast episode per month and one blog post per month and they were connected every month. And I really enjoyed that. It was really great for me. And ultimately that's what led me to launching Creating a Brand, which led me the opportunity to be able to speak on stages about podcasting. It was a long play. mean, I wanted to leave corporate years before I did, but I didn't actually leave until December 7th, 2020. And I left. On my own accord, I was doing really well at the company. It was actually my best year I ever had there, which was really cool. But I just realized that this opportunity to now serve and support creators had been presented and I had worked really efficiently. So I was like, man, I'm sure I can do with a little bit more hours, right? I learned to be efficient. that's kind of the journey for me. I'll tell you what, I knew that God called me that corporate job, but I also knew he called me to be that blogger. And at that point, he had me doing both. And we can look at scripture and see that there's some very iconic people in our faith that had more than one thing going on. They weren't always full-time missionaries, right? Like they had things going on that God just put them in that season. And there was a time and season for doing both and doing one or the other. And so I think that we just need to be, we don't, shouldn't grow weary of doing good in those areas. Be good at both things if you feel that you have that. And at the same time, those things can feed each other. I was able to build 140 plus person multi-author blog. because of my experience in corporate. Like it taught me to do that. I was able to go to the marketing team, my corporate job with some really cool, unique ideas because of what I was learning from blogging. See how they fed each other. And I think for all of us, that opportunity is there if we don't allow ourselves to kind of be jaded by one of them, right? Like, or like dislike one of them. Like we gotta learn that if God's place is here, let's do the best we can on both sides. I couldn't say it better. And the reason why I wanted to make sure you said that is because I feel like we are being pulled into this hustle mentality of, like you said, you got to leave your job. If you really have faith, you'll leave everything behind and you'll jump into this. uh even when we're talking about the podcast and like, well, you can make a million dollars like Joe Rogan if you just drop it all and leave it like, no, that's not what we're trying to say. Especially to those of you who are thinking about sharing your message more, becoming a guest, maybe even thinking about making your own show eventually. This is the kind of thing we're talking about. It's not one or the other. It's not all or nothing. So I feel like hearing your story and seeing where you're at really helps them see like, okay, this is a long play. I love that word that you said. It's a long-term strategy and God is playing chess and not checkers. So he's gonna put those plays people in place to help you step by step, by step, by step, by step to slowly amplify the voice and the message that you have. So now man, we could talk for... Hours on this stuff, but I do want to kind of make sure we leave a couple of those uh next steps because you mentioned about Clarifying your why? Clarifying your message making sure, know why you're reaching out to certain shows Yeah, you know, actually, I think there might be one thing that we should curry for that. That's okay. Like the, actual pitch itself. right. These six steps down, because this is actually you reaching out to the host, which is going to be required. Like we're in, we, if Listen, if we don't ask, we don't get the opportunity usually. So um these are the six things I suggest doing, write them down. Number one is to keep it short. uh There's so many long-winded pitches these days and AI makes it really long-winded. What's the old saying? I didn't have time to write you a short email, so I wrote you a long one. And the reality is the shorter it is, typically the better it is. So keep it really short. The first thing is to lead with value after that. So step one, keep it short. Step two, lead with value. All that means is don't go straight to, want to be a guest because I have a book, because I have a message, because I heard from Alan that I need to be a guest on a podcast, right? Like don't do that. Start off with doing your research. Like I talked about and say, Hey, loved your show. Absolutely loved the way that you share and like this. And what I suggest doing is go to Apple podcasts and leave a five star rating review and just attach it there. Keep it short again. Hey, loved your show, left you a five star rating review. Here it is. You have everyone's attention at that point. Step three is make a meaningful request. A request would just be, I'd like to be on your podcast. A meaningful request means telling them, hey, I've got a story about transformation my own life I think would really resonate with your listeners because you have these other episodes I think were really good on a similar topic and it looks like they got good traction. However you want to say it, right? The idea is make a meaningful request. The host isn't saying, okay, you want to on the podcast and I'll get to figure out what you're going to talk about. No, do that work for them upfront. Number four is to offer credibility. In my mind, I think a lot of us we want to send our resume, but the highest form of credibility is who they know that you know. So example, if I reach out to a friend of Alan's and I want to be on their podcast, I'm simply going to say, here's a picture of Alan and I, when you get to hang out at least once a year, sometimes two or three times a year at different conferences, you can ask more about me because I know that you are really close as well. Most people are instantly like, cool, you're in. I trust Alan, I trust Alex now. And so offering credibility is who they know that you know. You can even go to social media, see who you have your friends in common with. If there's no one you haven't come with, do you like the same TV shows? Is your book of the Bible the favorite one, right? Like anything like that that builds a connection is huge. Number five is to mention sharing the episode. I always try to mention this. Hey, I'd love to be a guest. I'm going let you know I'll create a blog post on my website linking to your episode. And I'd love to share it on social media anytime you tag me as well. And the last thing here is just to make it easy to say no. You want to open a dialogue that, like I said earlier, like no, it's not a rejection. It's a redirection. And typically, as Alan said, it just means not right now. So you want to give them the option to respond. I always just say, Hey, no worries either way. I only want to be a guest if you really think I can add value, but I'd love to hear back from you either way. I end with almost those exact words every single time. That way don't feel like they're going to break my heart. If it's a no, at least we can get a conversation going. uh Anyway, those are my six steps that I always do that work really well for me, Alan. I don't know if you want to jump in there for a minute before we move on to the question at hand now. No, no, thank you for backing that up because this is exactly what I wanted to make sure I kind of worded it in the wrong way. It's really that it's like, okay, steps to actually seeing this. And I think what you said right there really helps me kind of define this better because once you lead with value, right, you say, hey, I'm not thinking about me. I want to share with your audience and I want to make sure I promote you, whether or not you even have me as a guest. I think that does move you into area of where you are. It's authority. think that's what I'm looking for. Right. That's kind like what I was trying to aim at, which is how do you become someone who is confident with that pitch? So thank you for actually backing it up. Cause I think once you step through those six steps, now you are saying to someone, Hey, I don't, I'm not begging in a sense. You know what I mean? I'm not begging. I want to help because I do feel confident in my own authority, my own voice, what I want to share. And it's not like you said, just scatter shot. Hey, B I want to be on your, I want to be in show. We listen to my book, read my story, talk about me, me, me, me, me. So no, you absolutely answered it the right way. Because if you are pitching to people in that way, it's not a me first attitude. It's more of a, I'm here to serve and I'm confident in what I'm sharing. So you already answered that perfectly right there. So I appreciate that backing it up. And I think honestly, if they follow that and just create a system of that, which again, PodMatch makes it very easy, but also in terms of just your own process. because I do believe that as you become a guest, think this is where, tell me if this is true, people who become very good guests would probably also make very good hosts because now you understand your voice and you know what you're sharing. that something you've seen possibly more often? There are people who think they can't be hosts, but then realize, hey, I'm actually good at this and I enjoy it and they become hosts. Yeah, you know, I actually find it works better than the opposite. Not all hosts are good guests, but most guests are good hosts. I'd say it's a harder form of communication to some extent. To me, I'm a much better host than I'm a guest. I overshare as a guest and I have input on everything. I think you've done amazing. I think you are equally good at hosting and guessing. I'm right now, I'm putting that on. So make sure that Alicia hears that. think he's, I think he's both and both and. Well, thank you. I just feel like I overshare a little bit. When you're the host side, diving in those little things helps a lot. On the guest side, sometimes you just got to let it go. But to your point, I think that yes, if you end up being a guest on a few shows and you end up really loving it, have your own platform. mean, there being a podcast host these days with an active show is becoming the top of the media channels. I mean, it's a big deal now. so notice I say active show. You can't just do one episode and quit. Like you got to actually stick with it, right? Exactly. this guy's got 30, 40, 50 episodes of this. This lady's got a hundred plus episodes. Like that goes a really long way from an authority building standpoint. So yeah, I think that you should definitely consider if you find this a medium that you enjoy and people resonate with it, it's probably time to consider your own show. I love it. And that's exactly why I said it, because I'm remembering really how my life changed from starting my show and then getting the confidence to show up on other people's shows. Honestly, it was a few of those pod match first connections that I was like, wait a minute, like people actually want to hear from me. Like they care about what I say. And it was, it wasn't until I started showing up as a guest, I started realizing like, my voice matters. Like it's one thing to interview other people and to make them the center of attention, which is great as a host. That's my job as a host, right? To put them in some attention. But once I became a guest, I started realizing that, a minute, like people actually do care about my perspective as well. As when I got more comfortable with solo shows, to be honest with you, man. I was comfortable with doing solo shows. I always wanted to put the guest out front. But then I realized, wait a minute, as a guest myself, I have an obligation to share my perspective. And so like I said, I think all this comes down, like we said, like all in one big bucket of, hey, you have a voice, you have something to share. And God has put it in you for a reason. So here's a medium that literally just says, Hey, go out there and share it and connect with the right people. So Alex, brother, you are absolutely the man. I know you have so much more to share. So they, you know, I've already looked at all the links, but let's just do it old school. If they want to follow more about learning how to be a host or a guest, where would you take them to learn more about your resources? Yeah, I'm going to send y'all somewhere I don't usually send people, but we've already referenced your episode a little bit, Alan. So I think it's actually the next logical step because if you do want to hear a testimony from somebody who hears your episode where you're a guest specifically, they have to feel comfortable all the way through doing that. And that's actually really, important to get right. And most people get it wrong. And that's a whole nother conversation, but thankfully it's exactly what you talked about in my show, Alan. You talked about the role your brand plays in establishing trust with podcast listeners. And brand, it doesn't mean like a big logo and stuff like that. That's not what it means at all. So I encourage you if you're like, well, I'm a brand you do, it's you. And really positioning that right is how you're going to be able to really have that ongoing impact. People who hear you on a podcast, if any, if anyone's interested in hearing that, which I encourage all of you to check it out, go to pod match.com slash EP slash three zero seven pod match.com slash EP slash three zero seven. Once you're there, you can look at the navigation, find everything else I do, how to contact me, all that stuff. But I just encourage you, that is the next best step after hearing this today. man, Alex, you see, are the man because look how you tie the all night, nice in a bow, putting me in the middle of all of that, but they get to hear from me and you and you being so gracious to have me on podcasts. made simple, but this is exactly what I think we're modeling what we're talking about, right? You showing up on my show, having been a CEO of an incredible company, yet you came serving, you were gracious, you had value. You never pointed at yourself as being the center of attention. You serve the people who are listening and watching right now. So you literally just might be on a show. That was the lesson, right? The lesson was, hey, be like Alex, show up on podcast. So it'll be like, sometimes, not all time, but this specific time, like, hey, follow, in this case, follow us as we follow Christ, but don't follow the rest of this stuff, right? Exactly. So I love how much this means to me, man, because again, this is a relationship that would not have existed outside of podcasting because you took the step of faith. after serving an amazing church and creating this community, right? And learning how to build relationships. You're now doing it in a whole another sphere, but it's the same message, which is give people a voice so they can share what God put on the inside of them. And he's working out the rest of it. So man, God bless you. Thank you so much for being a part, finally, of the God in Gigs show. I pray this is not the last and final time that we'll make this a regular occurrence, man. But anything you need from God in Gigs, you will always have it. We will always be huge supporters and fans of everything you're doing. Alan, thank you. That's totally mutual by the way and seriously an honor to be here and thanks for checking this out everybody. Appreciate you.