212. How to be Authentically Artistic with Miles Witt Boyer

In this episode of the podcast, Alora welcomes Miles Whitboyer, a distinguished wedding and commercial photographer based in Bentonville, Arkansas. 

Renowned for his cinematic storytelling and authenticity, Miles shares his valuable insights on maintaining artistic integrity and providing exceptional client experiences. The discussion delves into Miles' journey in the photography industry, the importance of personal connections with clients, and the pitfalls of following influencer trends without genuine substance. 

Miles emphasizes serving clients with depth and intention, drawing from real-life stories that underscore the lasting significance of wedding photography. Stay tuned as the conversation continues in a two-part series, with a follow-up episode on Miles' podcast featuring the host.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:23 Miles Whitboyer's Background

01:06 The Importance of Client Experience

03:35 Balancing Art and Business

06:28 The Power of Referrals

12:46 Finding Joy in Photography

22:05 The Importance of Skill Over Gear

23:41 Industry Trends and Influencer Culture

27:17 The Value of Wedding Photography

29:01 Reflections on the Photography Industry

30:07 Personal Growth and Lessons Learned

32:51 The Impact of COVID-19 on Photography

36:01 Looking Back and Moving Forward

41:35 Conclusion and Next Steps

⭐️ Miles Links: 

• Instagram
• Photographic Collective Podcast - Part 2
• Miles Presets

--

🏛️ Free Training: 3 Steps to Book $10k Weddings (this year)
♟️ Book a 1:1 Strategy Intensive

💬 Let's Connect on Insta
⭐️ Rate & Review the podcast. Thank uu -xx 🫶🏽 - Apple - Spotify

💡 Resources:

• *Imagen Ai - Done for You Culling & Editing: Get 1500 FREE Ai Edits
• Get a FREE Month of the best gallery software (ever): Pic-Time
• Legal Paige - Get Legally Legit, use code: ALORA10 for 10% off

Transcript

Alora: 0:06

Welcome or welcome back to the podcast. I have an amazing guest on with me. His name is while Miles Whitboyer. I don't know why I called you wild.

Miles Witt Boyer: 0:13

It's true, his name is Wiles. Welcome, Wiles.

Alora: 0:16

We've already been bantering for like the past, I don't know, five to 10 minutes. So we decided to press record and this is going to be more of like a casual conversation mixed in with whatever style he's vibing with. So we're just going to dive in. Okay. So who is Miles? He is a Bentonville, Arkansas based wedding and commercial photographer with a keen eye for cinematic storytelling. Love that.

Miles Witt Boyer: 0:39

Yeah, let's go. That sounds like I didn't write it.

Alora: 0:42

written by yours truly. Hey, named one of the best in the world by looks like film. That's kind of cool.

Miles Witt Boyer: 0:47

Yeah,

Alora: 0:48

You're a brand ambassador for Fujifilm, hold fast gear and pick time, and you have a passion for sharing experiences and encouraging photographers and an obsession with authenticity and imagery. So let's dive in Miles, welcome to the podcast.

Miles Witt Boyer: 1:03

let's go. Did you know that moving forward I think I'm going to always write my own introductions? That was one of the best I've ever had. Turns out I'm fascinating. Oh gosh, listen, here's, here's the like, the behind the scenes here is that every listeners take notes. Every photographer that you like, like their work or listen to their podcasts or like aspire to be more like artistically or business wise or whatever. We all love talking about what we do and we are so awkward talking about ourselves. So, thanks for talking about me to me, because that was the most uncomfortable 45 seconds of my morning.

Alora: 1:42

You know, I think it's kind of hard to accept all that you've done and like, it's just kind of weird. Cause I don't know if you're the kind of personality like me, but I just like to keep going. I don't revel in the moment. It's like, Oh, an award. Cool. Let me,

Miles Witt Boyer: 1:55

100%.

Alora: 1:55

And then onto the next. But you know, every once in a while, it's nice to kind of reflect on what you've done and you know, what you do for others.

Miles Witt Boyer: 2:05

I think it's so much fun when you, like, can stack up. To be honest with you, I care more about the relationships like you mentioned. Me working with Fujifilm and you, I didn't put in there, and let's be honest, I wrote that stupid bio, but I didn't put in there that I'm also an Imogen ambassador, right? And that I work with Pixel You and that I have, like, those are the things to me that I think are not only really relevant to people that listen, but also like the awards are flattering, but they're so fleeting. And mostly because like, I'll say this, Every time I take a photo that the moment I snap it, I'm like, that one, that one's an award winner. I know that somewhere in the world Jason Vincent shot 11 that are going to beat me for the same award. So, like, you just can't, we can't take ourselves too seriously in this, right? Like, as long as we're making our couples, like, our clients happy and our photos are, honoring their day, You know, I mean great art is just fleeting. So I don't know did I just get way too deep too quick Never mind. Sorry

Alora: 3:09

So good. I mean, I feel like that's what we're here to talk about actually is your

Miles Witt Boyer: 3:14

Mm hmm.

Alora: 3:14

client experience and why you are the go to person. And I just, my rapid fire questions are actually not affiliated with that, but I do want to ask you one that you came up with

Miles Witt Boyer: 3:25

Let's go.

Alora: 3:26

so

Miles Witt Boyer: 3:27

my gosh, you making me seem as though I wrote a script for my own Please interview me on these things

Alora: 3:33

Just the one. I came up with the rest of them, but I thought

Miles Witt Boyer: 3:36

Just the one. Okay. Yes,

Alora: 3:37

it's also

Miles Witt Boyer: 3:38

okay

Alora: 3:38

So,

Miles Witt Boyer: 3:40

Okay. Number one.

Alora: 3:41

wish somebody would have given you early on about being an artist and a business owner? I do think that's good because I feel like they're two separate identities that as a photographer, you kind of have to like balance them well and make the two become one.

Miles Witt Boyer: 3:57

Yeah. Heck yeah. So I did write that question, but I actually wrote it to ask you that question for what it's worth. Is now a good time though, while we still have everybody is now a good time to admit that we're, we are actually going to do this podcast in a two part. Can I say that? Can I tell all of your guests that? So, yeah. In just a few minutes, and by a few I mean in a lot of minutes, when we get done talking about me, we're actually gonna switch over and ask you these same questions, and I bet your answers are better. But advice! I wish that somebody would have told me that that comparison is the thief of joy.

Alora: 4:35

Hmm. All

Miles Witt Boyer: 4:40

before the business if you want the business to have longevity. And instead, I think what most of our industry is doing right now is selling these like 12 step programs to your first hundred thousand and then your first quarter million and then your first seven figures and your first, and there's something inherently wrong with that because I think it's really special actually that there are educators out there that are trying to help. But a lot of times. What I see is that photographers are still trying to figure out who they are as artists

Alora: 5:14

and work

Miles Witt Boyer: 5:14

are trying to portray themselves as successful business people.

Alora: 5:18

I appreciate

Miles Witt Boyer: 5:19

And

Alora: 5:20

it. Great.

Miles Witt Boyer: 5:20

when you don't know who you are yet as an artist, you have no idea what the value is of your art.

Alora: 5:27

a little bit of travel

Miles Witt Boyer: 5:28

And,

Alora: 5:29

really

Miles Witt Boyer: 5:29

so trying to like

Alora: 5:30

I'm actually

Miles Witt Boyer: 5:31

position yourself as worth a lot without a concept of value is just a, it's a slippery slope. And I think that's the reason why most people in our industry only make it a few years because it doesn't take a lot of talent to line up a group of bridesmaids and tell them to fake laugh and get a beautiful photo. But it takes an incredible amount of talent to line up year after year of happy client and have them refer you. And those are two very different concepts. So I wish somebody would have just told me like, get out of your own way and go create beautiful art and like love on people along the way. And then make really wise decisions with the pennies that you're making before they turn into dollars.

Alora: 6:18

That's so good. I feel like your emphasis and your values about personal connection. I think that kind of like spill over into your business. And so that makes so much sense because client experience is your thing. So I have a question for you actually off the cuff. Would you say that like your clients and couples, do they like refer their friends to you or are they like consistently coming back? Do you also do their families and more but like they stay and they also like do the marketing for you.

Miles Witt Boyer: 6:48

Let's just be clear. I didn't write that question. This one was all yours.

Alora: 6:51

Yes. It's

Miles Witt Boyer: 6:52

So congratulations. Yes, this one is yours. Yeah. So I can trace back here's like, like, let me get like a really detailed and in an answer to that question. So I have a whole like community of clients in the tri state area, like in New York New Jersey, Connecticut. And throughout the course of the last maybe 12 to 15 years, I've probably shot maybe 40 weddings with this group of people.

Alora: 7:17

Wow.

Miles Witt Boyer: 7:19

those weddings have been in Napa Valley, in Turks and Caicos, in Iceland, in like all over, all over the country. And I can trace all of those weddings. Back to a single couple that we shot in Vermont. Now, the cool thing is that most of those weddings don't even know the original couple. But those client relationships have like created their own family tree. And so like we have this tree in New England, right? And then we have a tree in the South. And,

Alora: 7:53

Facebook.

Miles Witt Boyer: 7:55

I live, it has maybe like, I call it more like a forest, right? But all the roots kind of interconnect. And then we have sort of a similar thing growing in the Southwest right now. And so yes, I see a lot of clients come from referral. But more than that, what I just sort of have a passion for is you keep saying that like client experience is my thing, but I have this. I have this sort of passion for helping photographers understand that like every wedding you go to probably 90 percent or like 95 percent maybe of the people in the room will never see the photos,

Alora: 8:30

Mm

Miles Witt Boyer: 8:31

at least not the full gallery. Like they might see the, the carousel that the bride posts, right? But they're not going to see the photos, but you know what they are going to see? They're going to see the photographer. They may not see the photography, but they're going to see the photographer. And so being referable has to be deeper than just your work. Like you have to be, you have to be somebody that people want to know. And so we get most of our referrals from wedding planners and from clients and from brands of clients, but often it's just people that are like, Hey. You look like you were having so much fun at that wedding. We want you to come have fun at our wedding. And I'm like, man, you want to pay me to come enjoy myself with a camera at your wedding. Let's go.

Alora: 9:16

Yeah, I mean,

Miles Witt Boyer: 9:17

So I don't know if that answers, does that answer your question a little bit?

Alora: 9:20

I actually forgot my question, but that was a great answer.

Miles Witt Boyer: 9:24

Well, I can rewrite it for you. You asked if most of our weddings come from referral. And I'm sorry that that was like, did I speak for too long? I went on for too long.

Alora: 9:32

so very well said. I can

Miles Witt Boyer: 9:33

Long winded.

Alora: 9:34

you have a passion about like what you do and your clients and your couples. And I think it all is kind of like rooted in just. your job, loving your work, and

Miles Witt Boyer: 9:43

Mm hmm.

Alora: 9:46

It's that simple, it seems like,

Miles Witt Boyer: 9:47

Yeah.

Alora: 9:48

ha

Miles Witt Boyer: 9:49

like hyper intentional. Well, just be hyper intentional. Like make your work time, your work time and be all in. But then like make your family time your family time and be all in and you know, like I'm a, I'm kind of a, an avid runner and so I'm, I'm a nut about like when I'm not on a run, my phone is on silent. Like, I don't care if like. I get a massive referral from a royal wedding in England, right? I'm like, I don't care. I'm on a run right now. That's not the hat that I'm wearing. You know, like, but then when I'm in business, like I'm all in and and yeah, so I, I think I'm more passionate about that. Just like setting guardrails in our lives to where, like when I'm on a podcast with you. This is the only thing on my mind. This is a hundred percent. I'm all in and which makes it easy because you're super cool So like

Alora: 10:42

Stop.

Miles Witt Boyer: 10:43

like so

Alora: 10:43

ha.

Miles Witt Boyer: 10:44

far I won't stop you guys so she got back. Can we brag? I'm bragging on her. She got back from wppi. She's like playing with her hair right now If you can't see this she got back from wppi like 15 minutes ago In fact And yeah, she was like right on time to the minute for this conversation, totally prepared given I wrote all the questions, but that's fine. And I mean, like, this is so much fun for me because, like, this is why we do this job, right? Is to hang out with people that we see eye to eye with. You were talking in our kind of pre show banter, you were talking about how cool it was to, like, connect with friends. And people probably that you've just been, like, looking forward to being in a room with. And finally getting to like, shake their hand. Like, isn't that why we do this? Like, that's, that's the cool stuff, right? Like I jumped on a call the other day and I, I'll kiss and tell, let's go. I jumped on a call the other day to be like, kind of announced to the Imogen team as like, you know, hey, this is Miles and he's our newest guy, whatever. Freaking Sam Hurd was in there! Like, come on,

Alora: 11:51

Yeah. He's

Miles Witt Boyer: 11:52

right? Like, I'm like looking through, I'm like, oh yeah, I know these names. Yeah, you and you, yeah, that's cool, awesome. And then I get there and I was just like, my mouth hit the, I was like, I'm sorry, do you know who you are? So,

Alora: 12:02

Yeah.

Miles Witt Boyer: 12:03

anyway, that's the fun for me.

Alora: 12:05

I love it. Yeah. I met him in person and I was like, Hey, same herd. Like I'm a Laura. I actually went to a workshop you did in Detroit, like almost 10 years ago. And he's like, there Chipotle? I was like, yes, you guys catered Chipotle. It was a really good time at Airbnb. Yeah. So it was so surreal.

Miles Witt Boyer: 12:21

What if that's just his line? What if he only gets Chipotle to every workshop so that he can be like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the one with Chipotle.

Alora: 12:28

one with Chipotle,

Miles Witt Boyer: 12:29

Super smooth, by the way. Well done, Sam. Yeah? Yeah, I get that. Can we get this? Can we get this episode sponsored by? This episode's sponsored by Chipotle.

Alora: 12:40

I would love to I, I don't know

Miles Witt Boyer: 12:42

Okay.

Alora: 12:42

that out. Like those affiliate codes and stuff. I had a question and I lost it. Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. So what really inspired, like, have you always. Has it always been this way like passionate and artful and intentional about your relationships and your work and your couples or was there a moment where everything shifted because I feel when somebody is like this so all in or nothing, there was a reason there's a story behind it and so I'm curious.

Miles Witt Boyer: 13:09

Yeah, I think it's more like a series of moments, like, death by a thousand paper cuts. I mean, I've done this for a long time. Like a really, really long time. And I've loved this job for a long time. I started realizing years ago that as my demographic was going up, as I was working with higher and higher end weddings and higher and higher end wedding vendors, my joy wasn't going up with it. And I didn't know how to reconcile those two things because I knew I needed to make more money for the work that I was doing, and I knew that I was getting more valuable because the work was getting better. But I couldn't understand, why am I not loving this more? And then I was like, when it was like, you know, just cute early twenties that just want to sneak away and they have like two dimes to rub together, you know, why do I love that couple so much? But then the million dollar wedding at the art museum, those couples drive me crazy. And what I realized is that there was a posture problem with me. It wasn't them. The couples are largely the same. It was me. It was that in those situations, I felt like I needed to stand up a little straighter and wear my Rolex and like I was changing who I was to try and fit a perspective of who I thought that they wanted me to be.

Alora: 14:28

Oh. I realized

Miles Witt Boyer: 14:29

Instead of that, what I realized in a hurry was that there are couples out there. You just have to find them. But there are couples out there

Alora: 14:37

that's

Miles Witt Boyer: 14:37

that are like

Alora: 14:39

I got to

Miles Witt Boyer: 14:40

so intentional and so story based and they want,

Alora: 14:44

if

Miles Witt Boyer: 14:44

want the art and they want the fun of it and they can afford the photographer. That has a really high level of value in the market. And it took me a long time to kind of like whittle through that and realize that like my posture needed to shift. And here was the biggest change was when I realized that I am not a product. I'm a service. Everything changed for me and I realized that like I have to serve like I have to give and I've got to just give well and enroll in in situations where, you know, if somebody needs to know how to bustle that dress, it's going to be me. If somebody needs to be able to like fix those false eyelashes, it's going to be me. If somebody needs to, you know, to like run down and, and grab the flowers or make a quick call to find out where, you know, when the band is going to be ready or whatever. Like if somebody needs to be sacrificial in a moment and serve, it's going to be me. And what I realized from that was. There are something really special that unit unites, I guess, at least my couples in the sense that they would rather miss a photo and make a memory than have a ton of photos with no memories. And and so it's, it was like freeing and all of a sudden I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm at these massive events with lots of zeros behind. My fees and and I'm, and I'm like, I don't know if you can see me or not in this, but I, I, I'm a little bougie. Like I I'll admit that, like I, you know, I'm in a custom tuxedo and I feel good. And I'm like, but I'm also just having fun with people. Like I'm just hanging out and just chilling. And that's like, and I didn't, I don't need to feel awkward. Like I don't eat vendor meals in a back room. You know, because people are embarrassed of me as the photographer, like that's just not who I'm going to be ever again in my industry. So I'm sitting, drinking a Scotch with the bride's dad, you know, and, and he's paying for the Scotch and he's paying me to be there. And, you know, there's a level of service that has to go into that to get you there. So anyway, I cannot wait to ask you that question because I feel like that's probably the most valuable question that. Yeah. Can you go now? I know you were on your podcast, but tell me, I want to know you like,

Alora: 17:12

podcast. It's

Miles Witt Boyer: 17:14

We can break the rules.

Alora: 17:15

only been

Miles Witt Boyer: 17:16

our, this is our show. this is our show. We can do anything we want.

Alora: 17:21

You guys

Miles Witt Boyer: 17:22

Um, Yeah.

Alora: 17:27

He's like, actually, can we leave? Okay, wait, that was such a good answer though. I mean, and it kind of makes sense too, is like when you start charging a certain price bracket, imposter syndrome hits like crazy. And you're like wait a minute. Like who am I to do this? Let me dress like this. I got to show that I have money. So I'm going to wear a Rolex, like you said, and then you find yourself not being the photographer that they had initially hired. The one that they seen on the website, the one they seen on Instagram, the same thing happened to me. Like once you get to like five figures and above, it's like, Oh, are celebrity clients.

Miles Witt Boyer: 18:01

Yeah.

Alora: 18:02

like, I can't wear my comfortable like tennis shoes anymore. Like my fancy black ones, you know? Yeah. then you get to a point where you're just like, no, like they hired me because they value me and my work. And I'm just going to show up and give them that. And it ends up being okay. It's like half of that stuff is like giving yourself the drama that nobody has said anything about. And then you're like, Oh, I'm the problem. Like, it's just, it's me.

Miles Witt Boyer: 18:28

Yeah. Well it's, and it's being so self serving in that moment, right? It's like you're making it about you. It's the problem that I have. One of the reasons like for all the podcasts that I'm on, I really avoid all of the like bro tographer podcasts.

Alora: 18:40

Stop.

Miles Witt Boyer: 18:42

I'm usually on like mostly female podcasts because I'm like, I don't want to talk about my camera settings because it doesn't matter. I don't want to talk about what focal length I put on it. That's so dumb y'all. And if you want to know that stuff, like listeners and hear me out for real, if you want to know that stuff, just drop me a DM. I'm not gonna patronize you. I'm not going to play some weird gatekeeper card that says like, Oh, you know, wouldn't you like to know I'm just going to respond back with my gear list and say this is literally what I use. There's nothing magical. I'm not shooting some beta camera. That's not on the market. And I'm editing, there's like my, my post process isn't, you know, 16 hours per photo, most of the time I show our couples the photos on the back of my camera because the difference between the shot that I took and the shot that I deliver is like 2%.

Alora: 19:36

Okay.

Miles Witt Boyer: 19:37

and so I want them to feel again, the idea here is confidence in the photographer. Right? Like to be able to stand up and say like, Hey, everybody, like we're hanging out with our friends and we can't wait for you to meet Miles. Like, that's the dream. Like, that's the goal. And, you know, some stuff goes with that, I think, like, you know, dressing respectfully for the event goes with that, you know, carrying yourself respectfully for the event goes with that. I should probably do caveats and say, like, I'm nursing a scotch for hours with the bride's dad, not taking tequila shots with the bridesmaids. Right. Like big difference there. Right.

Alora: 20:15

Yeah.

Miles Witt Boyer: 20:17

you know, like I, I take my professionalism super seriously because my mortgage can't be paid on Instagram followers and cloud. So At some point in here, I gotta make some money and, and my kids are hungry. Y'all they are teenagers and they are starving. So we gotta make money, but like I have two boys and they are, gosh, they don't stop eating. It's unreal.

Alora: 20:42

I heard.

Miles Witt Boyer: 20:43

So yeah, it's okay. It's all right. I'm going to make it through this. Please send all food donations to, can we set up a GoFundMe? Chipotle.

Alora: 20:53

Chipotle feed

Miles Witt Boyer: 20:53

Anyway, so I'm going to burn that sponsorship really quick and say that nobody in my family really likes Chipotle, so sorry. I know there goes your affiliate code. It's okay. just feels like There's just not enough flavor in it.

Alora: 21:07

Yeah. I'm a Qdoba girl. Cause I like the cheese. So

Miles Witt Boyer: 21:10

Yes, right? Okay, okay. Mm hmm. We just burned, we just switched, we just switched sponsors in the middle of,

Alora: 21:18

Insert Qdoba.

Miles Witt Boyer: 21:19

Awkward.

Alora: 21:20

I wish I could have like sound effects on here.

Miles Witt Boyer: 21:22

You can.

Alora: 21:24

For, I remember you said earlier, like if someone could just DM you on Instagram and why don't you just make one of those like Amazon accounts where you can just have like my gear bag.

Miles Witt Boyer: 21:33

Do. I actually do.

Alora: 21:35

well then everybody

Miles Witt Boyer: 21:36

Yeah.

Alora: 21:37

lintry.

Miles Witt Boyer: 21:39

Yeah, I actually have that. Again, I don't but it, but it's truly just because of, and, and that changes a lot too, but it's truly just because of the fact that it's like, I think there's this mysticism to cameras and people probably assume that, like, for instance, because I'm an ambassador for a camera company. People, I think, assume that it's like, I buy all of the marketing bull that is fed, but I so don't y'all. And they know that. And if they get offended by that, then they're not paying attention.

Alora: 22:10

Yeah. That's right.

Miles Witt Boyer: 22:11

I don't see a purpose in my work for me to need a camera that can shoot 120 shots per second with no blackout. so that eliminates multiple cameras off the market because I'm like, that's just not going to be who I am. I'm not going to spray and pray now. I know photographers that are very creative in that, like they take shots. the most minute moments and they're like, if I hadn't taken 77, 000 photos, I wouldn't have gotten that. And I'm like, yeah, That's very true.

Alora: 22:39

Too many.

Miles Witt Boyer: 22:39

but I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna hang my hat on, on, on the camera or the flash or, or whatever. At the end of the day, like, I genuinely believe at this point in my career, and this isn't, I hope doesn't come across as like a super arrogant statement, but I genuinely believe that I could outshoot a lot of photographers on a wedding day with an iPhone. Because I get access to photos, I get access to moments because I see them coming, because I've put in the work to just, like, know that this stuff is coming right around the corner and people trust me and, and so, like, that's the hard work just getting your camera to your eye fast enough, that's, that's the hard work, you know, so. What camera it is, is less, I think, less important in general.

Alora: 23:27

it's not the gear. It's the artist. I think that's like a hot take for sure. Yeah.

Miles Witt Boyer: 23:33

Yeah well and, yeah. Oh, let's go, okay. Forgot that we were doing that.

Alora: 23:39

You're like, what questions? Well, this one, I'm kind of curious personally. That's why I asked it, but like it's number four. So we

Miles Witt Boyer: 23:44

Mm hmm.

Alora: 23:45

What's

Miles Witt Boyer: 23:46

Mm hmm.

Alora: 23:47

like ick right now in the industry? Like something you're just like, Oh

Miles Witt Boyer: 23:53

I'm gonna offend so many people.

Alora: 23:56

no,

Miles Witt Boyer: 23:57

You skip to this one because you're

Alora: 24:00

spicy now.

Miles Witt Boyer: 24:03

No, let's go. Okay, it's fine. If you, here's the thing. How about this? If the moment I say this, you kind of identify in it as this, then I would challenge you to get deeper about that. Okay. So what bothers me currently about the industry is the entire sector of our industry. And I think it was on Ben Hartley's podcast a couple of years ago. I called the, the The Labradoodle Society, but it's like, the young kind of influencer vibe that they picked up a camera because it was cute. And then they took a picture that was cute. And then cute people asked them to keep taking pictures that were cute. And then, but here's the thing, and I know I sound so, I'm not, I really, I'm not trying to sound so like rude. What icks me about that is not that process. That's fine. That is completely fine. Actually, there's a huge market for that stuff. What icks me about it is,

Alora: 25:03

Silence. Silence.

Miles Witt Boyer: 25:14

famous as a wedding photographer. Educational course, and it's not so much that they haven't put in the time though. They haven't, but that it's all self serving. It is all about them, right? And so it's like, Hey, if you want to be an influencer, like me, not, not love on your couples, not create art for them, not serve them, or understand the legacy value of what you're creating, none of that stuff. If you want to be an influencer, like me, here's the steps that I took to become very rapidly famous

Alora: 25:47

Silence.

Miles Witt Boyer: 25:51

of clients that I like just sort of stepped on along the way to make that happen. And it just, it kind of grosses me out just as like a posture that I'm like,

Alora: 26:00

Silence.

Miles Witt Boyer: 26:01

like these photographers are getting really very, like very famous. You know, like it cracks me up sometimes I'll see somebody's work and I'm like, Oh yeah, that's a, that's kind of a cool shot. I like that. I'm like, Oh, that, you know, that photographer, like they'll actually look kind of awesome. Like I'll follow and then I won't see their work for six months and then I'll click back over and I'm like, Oh, you have 172, 000 followers. And I'm like, how, how on earth did you do that? oh, you've got the number three highest trending podcast in that. You know what I mean? And I'm like, of course you're releasing presets and an educational platform. I'm like, you've been a photographer for 12 minutes. So anyway, that's,

Alora: 26:39

so the influencer

Miles Witt Boyer: 26:40

my ick.

Alora: 26:41

and I hear you because I remember somebody was like you can't shortcut like the hustle. Like everybody has to do their time because the thing about photography,

Miles Witt Boyer: 26:51

Mm hmm.

Alora: 26:51

you get better every year or a certain amount of wedding shot. It's not just like,

Miles Witt Boyer: 26:56

Yeah.

Alora: 26:57

at this level where I can charge this much. And I just started 12 months ago. Like you actually have to put

Miles Witt Boyer: 27:02

Mm hmm.

Alora: 27:03

to create your unique craft, but then also.

Miles Witt Boyer: 27:06

Mm hmm.

Alora: 27:07

clients and your couples and I think that kind of goes for the long game Like the ones that are just here for the fame It's not gonna last because the couples talk, you know, the reviews show

Miles Witt Boyer: 27:19

Yeah. Yep.

Alora: 27:20

yeah I mean,

Miles Witt Boyer: 27:21

Yeah.

Alora: 27:22

yeah, I just I

Miles Witt Boyer: 27:23

Well, and like, I think I would challenge people, like, who are you aspiring to be? Like, there's a reason there's only one Jose Villa,

Alora: 27:32

Mm hmm.

Miles Witt Boyer: 27:32

right? There's a reason. Like, there's a reason there's only one Amy Leibovitz.

Alora: 27:38

hmm

Miles Witt Boyer: 27:39

You know, and she's had like a 40 year career, 50 year career, like she shot the Paul McCartney, like those people have put in the work, but I, I think that there's sort of this is like getting really deep, but I'll say, I think that art shows up in its most pure, most beautiful form, I think art shows up in the suffering, like when you learn to suffer a little bit, Like when it's hot and you continue to shoot, when you're tired and you continue to shoot, when you don't exactly vibe with the couple, but you're doing this for them and you continue to shoot like art rolls in. can you imagine, this is a jump to say this, but can you imagine how uncomfortable Michelangelo was painting on his back for years? Like staring at the Sistine Chapel for years, you imagine how awkward and uncomfortable that was. There is. in the suffering and when all you are is glitter and rainbows and tongue clicks and hair twists, then you miss it. and it's like, I almost feel bad for you. I feel bad for your clients, but I feel bad for you. I want photographers to gravitate into something that they see as valuable. Or frankly, to just move on and say Hey, If what you want to be is a content creator Then that is actually a really cool super vibrant super emerging industry and go do it But don't use weddings to do it for you.

Alora: 29:07

Yeah, well, being a photographer is not what it was a decade ago. Like, I can't even, it's almost like an influencer times a hundred, you know? So now when people are like, Oh, you're a

Miles Witt Boyer: 29:18

Yeah.

Alora: 29:19

Like back in the day, I was like, I'm a wedding photographer. They're like, Oh, that's cool. Like, how's that

Miles Witt Boyer: 29:23

Awkward. Yeah. Why don't you have a real job? Yes.

Alora: 29:27

literally. Like, I remember when somebody was like, no, one's going to pay more than like a thousand dollars for a wedding photographer. And I was like, watch me.

Miles Witt Boyer: 29:35

Yeah. I would have been like, are you kidding me? Somebody is going to pay me a thousand dollars. Let's go.

Alora: 29:39

so much money, like my first 500, I couldn't believe it. I was like, this is,

Miles Witt Boyer: 29:43

Mm hmm.

Alora: 29:44

this is really good money, but like I think having that balance of like being content

Miles Witt Boyer: 29:51

Mm hmm.

Alora: 29:52

and then still not forgetting about your clients. I feel like that seems to be like your thing. It's like taking care of people, making sure that this was an amazing experience because it is like, I mean, this is that chapter of them together. These are legacy images. I still go back to my wedding images and it's been almost 11 years. So

Miles Witt Boyer: 30:11

Ooh, that makes me happy. I love that. Yeah. I mentioned I had a meeting this morning with a bride that I'm shooting in a couple of weeks just going over her schedule and she made this comment to me, which is like, it's cool. it's just about what every photographer wants to hear, but I couldn't disagree more, which is like. You know, hey, there's really only like 30 or 40 photos that we really, really want. And so we really want to make sure that we maximize that time of just the two of us, right? And I think I surprised her, not just think, I know I surprised her because she had tears running down her face when I was like, you're seeing it in such a shallow timeframe. These photos are going to appreciate at such different times. So yes, In the next year, those beautiful photos of the two of you walking through the art gallery are going to be, they're going to be magic. They're gonna be amazing. I can't wait for you to have those. But in 20 years, when your dad passes away,

Alora: 31:00

Yeah.

Miles Witt Boyer: 31:01

the photo of you dancing with your dad is going to be the most important thing to you in the world. And if we don't put the same amount of like care into those photos as we do the ones that are going to get us a lot of likes in our reels, then what are we doing this for? And, and, you know, like if, you know, God forbid, and this has happened to me, I think, you know, you were asking about situations where like I just had sort of enlightening moments, but I shot a wedding years and years ago, where the day after the honeymoon, the groom was in a horrific car accident and is a paraplegic. And so the photos of them holding each other on their wedding day are the only, that's it. Like they'll never stand again. They'll never dance again. They'll never take a walk again. And like that is, it's both heartbreaking. And then, like I said, like there's art in that suffering, right? Photos that they wouldn't have even appreciated before. Now they see as like, so important. And I don't know, I think that's where we have a unique opportunity as creatives to show up and literally get paid. To just love on them.

Alora: 32:18

Yeah.

Miles Witt Boyer: 32:19

like that's so cool. So,

Alora: 32:22

Yeah

Miles Witt Boyer: 32:22

okay. Hey, hot take here. It's you, you better go through at least one more question because we're about to have to switch over to my podcast

Alora: 32:30

like, I can't

Miles Witt Boyer: 32:31

and, oh my gosh, it's exhausting. Trying to be entertaining on your podcast.

Alora: 32:38

I think you're

Miles Witt Boyer: 32:39

Um, Yeah, well, now all I can think about is Qdoba, so it's the cheese.

Alora: 32:47

Like, it is lunchtime. I'm hungry just as much as you are.

Miles Witt Boyer: 32:50

Not in Vegas. It is not lunchtime in Las Vegas, which is where your body is still set right now.

Alora: 32:56

yes.

Miles Witt Boyer: 32:57

know how many people, like, here, sidebar, how many people wrote me, what is going, WPPI the last few years has been kind of a ghost town. I mean, that sounds bad. I don't guys, I love you guys a lot. Like they're, they're, they're great people, but the numbers have been dwindling and the sponsorships have been kind of like lower and whatever. So this year we sort of made this intentional decision, like, Hey, I've got a lot going on. It's the big trips coming up. I just don't have time for this right now. Also with all my free time, I coach multiple soccer teams. I just don't have time. Like we, we got work to do.

Alora: 33:28

Impressive.

Miles Witt Boyer: 33:29

then every single person that holds a camera on earth was texting me saying like, where are you? Las Vegas is going off. What is happening? Why? Why are you the one loser? So.

Alora: 33:42

I

Miles Witt Boyer: 33:42

It wasn't good this year.

Alora: 33:43

was wondering where you were. I was like, am I going to meet Miles? And Noelle was like, nope, he's not coming. I was like, Oh, like, he has like soccer stuff. I was like, Oh, soccer. Is he, what? That's all I

Miles Witt Boyer: 33:54

Yeah, soccer stuff. I thought he had a real job.

Alora: 33:58

I was like, what? Hey, it's good. Like, I think you should, I might come next year.

Miles Witt Boyer: 34:01

You should. Well, we had also just made a couple of different sort of brand jumps. I just joined the Imogen team which is really exciting, but a part of that. I had just stepped away from another relationship with another brand. I didn't want to twist the knife. If I'm honest, it just didn't seem like a great thing to do to them to say like, Hey, I know I was recently on this team and now I'm on that one. That's just from an integrity perspective. That didn't feel good. Also, while everybody was partying in Vegas, I was closing a brand deal with Oberwerth, which is like exactly what I needed to be doing because now we have the bougiest, fanciest camera bags on earth. And I got a whole box of them, and now I can just sit back and be like, Hey, I'm rocking Italian leather, hand stitched in Germany, and you are rocking nylon. So,

Alora: 34:47

I'm at a point where I'm like,

Miles Witt Boyer: 34:48

yeah, it's like that.

Alora: 34:49

want it. So I respect that.

Miles Witt Boyer: 34:51

Ooh, but this is like a different kind of leather. Like, I opened this thing up and it mooed at me. It was fantastic. Sorry, that was dark. But seriously, these bags are phenomenal. So that's, that's what I needed to be doing. But I hear that it was incredible and it makes me happy. It makes me happy that photographers are getting back together. Like that's important. So I think I went the year after the first year, right after COVID. And it was so tragic.

Alora: 35:15

Ooh,

Miles Witt Boyer: 35:16

It was like, yeah, it was awkward. It was like, let's have a photo walk eight feet away from each other. I'd love to lead that one.

Alora: 35:26

yeah, I this was my first event, like for photography, I think since the pandemic. And no, that's when Noelle was telling me, she was like, Oh, you got to come And I met a lot of really cool people, so next year. It's every year, Miles. You can go next year. No big deal. There'll be another

Miles Witt Boyer: 35:40

Okay. Yeah. March, March 1st through 5th. I already have image and already wrote me. Scott was like, Hey, block your date. Okay. Yes, sir.

Alora: 35:49

He said, one time you can miss. That's it.

Miles Witt Boyer: 35:52

Yep.

Alora: 35:52

more question and then we'll leave it. And then I'll hop on yours. So, man, I don't know. These are really, really good. I don't know which one to pick.

Miles Witt Boyer: 36:02

You're just saying that because you wrote the rest of the questions.

Alora: 36:05

I write really good questions. If you could go back in time five years ago and your business and your life, what would you do

Miles Witt Boyer: 36:12

Five years. It's 2020. You dropped me right in the middle of the pandemic. Cool. If you could go back to the darkest time in modern human history,

Alora: 36:23

Maybe

Miles Witt Boyer: 36:24

I wouldn't have gotten the shot. I'll say that. Can we start with that? I would not have gotten the Pfizer vaccine.

Alora: 36:30

The recall is not good. Miles. Are you okay?

Miles Witt Boyer: 36:34

I would not have gotten the shot, everyone. This just got hyper political. So, let's see, five years ago Ooh, man, I, this is, this is a weird place to go with this and I don't want to be the guy that's all like, I hope I've already demonstrated that there's a little bit of like, stultriness to me. I'm not all like rainbows and suns. The last five years have probably been the best five years of my life.

Alora: 37:04

Wow.

Miles Witt Boyer: 37:05

I don't know that I would have changed much. Like five years ago, my gym closed. I was sort of an avid, like weightlifter, aesthetic vein. That sounds bad. I not really like crazy, but just, I just spent a lot of time with a trainer and it closed and I went for a run and it totally changed my life. A hundred percent changed my life. Initially just like one mile because that was all I could do. And then took my son for a mile and that was all we could do. And that was, there's a long story there, but that was thousands of miles ago at this point. And. And my marriage five years ago was like, good, but then we got locked to, into a house with each other and had to learn how to teach preschool to our, our little guy and still be on calls. And I spent most of my time on Fujifilm calls, just trying to. Calm photographers down and tell them like, hey, like this too shall pass. It's okay. I firmed up relationships with Jared in the last five years that prior to that he was an employee and now he's like my very best friend and like, you know, closest dude to me in the world. Yeah, I wouldn't change much in the last five years.

Alora: 38:17

I love

Miles Witt Boyer: 38:17

Yeah. I wish I had something like deep and brooding for you. I think at times I would have taken myself less seriously and just given myself like more grace to just like, hey, if you want to go outside and get those tennis shoes dirty. Just go do it. So sidebar, I'm kind of a nut about making sure my shoes stay clean. if you didn't pick up on that. So, I mean, I'm not the sneaker guy, the sneaker bro. I wish I could be. They're just so expensive, but I'm really cheap. You didn't pick that up. I love that. I have in the same podcast, dropped the Rolex and then said I won't buy expensive sneakers. Guess I'm a bit of a paradox there. So yeah. Can we lead into us switching over to my podcast though with me asking you the same question? Like, no, no, no, right now. Let's go.

Alora: 39:10

Okay.

Miles Witt Boyer: 39:11

Yes, right this second. And then we'll switch over.

Alora: 39:13

Okay. What is the one I just asked you?

Miles Witt Boyer: 39:18

You're gonna actually make me ask you? You're so awkward. Let's go. Okay. Dear Laura if you could go back into, how did you say it? Oh, wait. Yes. I have it written here. Beautifully eloquently written by you. If you could go back in time five years ago, what would you do differently?

Alora: 39:33

So many things. Five years ago, I was pregnant with my son and I was still shooting weddings and that's when intimate weddings took off honestly, was the first year that I ever went on vacation while being a photographer it honestly changed my life. Was like such a workaholic. I would book quadruple, triple headers, weddings back to back kids crying as I leave on a Saturday. And honestly, COVID taught me that it's actually okay to relax, it's okay to take a vacation, I don't know,

Miles Witt Boyer: 40:10

good.

Alora: 40:12

Without checking your email, delete Gmail from your phone, do not disturb is permanently on, everybody hates that for me, all my friends and family, if they're listening, they

Miles Witt Boyer: 40:21

I love it for you right now.

Alora: 40:23

I learned what peace really was.

Miles Witt Boyer: 40:24

Yeah,

Alora: 40:25

out person. Yeah. Burned out two years in a row. And so if I could go back, I probably wouldn't change that. But I would triple my prices. Because I was at the same price point for too long. And that's why I did burnout. So I probably would have to go back seven years and just be like, Can you raise your prices, Allura? And not think your business is going to burn to the ground if you raise it So, yeah. But I learned how to be a better mom. I learned how to cook like I, we were a takeout family and now I'm just

Miles Witt Boyer: 40:53

there you go.

Alora: 40:54

Yeah, so many things. But yeah, I just, I feel like 2020

Miles Witt Boyer: 40:59

I love

Alora: 40:59

everything for me and I regret nothing.

Miles Witt Boyer: 41:03

Good stuff. Okay. I like I can't wait I've got so many things I'm gonna lean in on the surprise here Is that I'm not gonna actually ask you any of the questions you asked me Because now I have so many things I want to know

Alora: 41:19

be

Miles Witt Boyer: 41:19

like to hear an artist and like a business woman that I really respect say in the same sentence, basically say that you had to get over like the fear of scarcity to become a better mom. Like we could unpack that for days

Alora: 41:36

Let's do it.

Miles Witt Boyer: 41:36

and, and like, that's the most relevant thing. So, okay. I'm going to let you, this is your podcast. I'm going to let you tell everybody what's about to happen.

Alora: 41:46

So we are recording a part two on miles podcast and these should both be going live on the same day. So there'll be a link in the show notes to hop over and his. And all of his links to connect and yeah, hear my side of the story, which this is so fun. It's his idea. I've never done this before. But I'll see you guys on miles podcast and thank you guys for tuning in. And I'll see you next week. Bye.