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Kaizzen's Vineet Handa Decodes India's PR Startup Surge on the PRmoment India Podcast
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Hello and welcome to the PR Moment India podcast. Today we have with us Vineet Handa, the founder of Kaizen, who has just completed 25 years in the profession, and we're going to talk about his journey not only about his journey, but what tips he can offer for startups who are coming in the future. A lot of industry estimates say that this year is going to see a bit of an explosion in solopreneurs in VR, so I'm sure Vineet has a lot to say to them With that. Welcome, vineet.
Speaker 2:Thanks.
Speaker 1:Parul.
Speaker 2:Very interesting 25 years, right. Honestly, it all looks like yesterday, you know, uh, because one thing which is not changes is, uh, is, is is the way I've been looking at the industry. Of course, a lot of things have changed, but I think my energy, my passion, my uh whole attitude to work in this industry has not changed and therefore it looks to me just like yesterday and I also feel that there's a long way to go. There's a long way to go.
Speaker 1:Let's go back to the very beginning of your journey. Vineeth, how did you get started in PR? You are not from Delhi, so what's your journey been like from your hometown to here? How did you get started?
Speaker 2:It's a very interesting journey. Coming from a middle class business family, from a place called Chinwada in Madhya Pradesh Many of my industry mates have not even heard the name of the place we used to have timber business. You know we had three brothers, joint family. So there's a lot of different things for us. Right. For us, life is. Life was fun because business family, you do not have too much focus on studies and stuff like that. But then there was this lady who I call my mother. You know who's my mother. She was very clear, she was focused, she knew what needs to be done and she made us study. She made sure that we study as much as possible and that's how this whole change happened. You know, I did my master's in international business from. So my schooling was in the medium, my college was in the medium. Then we moved.
Speaker 2:I moved to Indore, did my master's in international business you know my first job as an internship and then the job was ABCL, amitabh Bachchan Corporation Limited, unfortunate, you know, being even the pink slips very early. So you know, when people were starting their career, I knew what pink slip means. So which was by chance, by the way never taught in the NBA what does pink slip mean, and I was like you know, there's something, but yeah, it was funny.
Speaker 2:And then kept looking at jobs. Uh, worked in middle east for a year, a little unfortunate, again had to come back for some reason, cargill what happened and that's where. Uh, because I was without job for almost three months in year 2000, uh, with people in the family, uh suggested me to meet somebody. His name was Mr Sameer Kale, owner of CMCG, and that's how I got into PM, my first job in the year 2000,. I think it was April and I got into this office in Malviya Nagar in basement. He asked me three or four questions and he said, yeah, come on board. Very interesting. What was the question he asked? He asked me two questions. What do you understand about PR? So I said while I was in ABCL, I managed the press conference. And he asked me manage the press conference? I said I managed. I assured journalists from the gate to the hall where mr bachchan was addressing the media. So I knew that press conference is part of the public relations agency.
Speaker 1:Then he said what did you do? I said, I also handed over the press kit to the journalist he said, okay, what was in the press kit?
Speaker 2:I said there was a press release, there was a notepad pen and there was a brochure which had all the participants bio. He was very impressed. He said okay, you are on, come on. But the difference was that in Dubai I was getting around 7,700 dirhams. Here I started my career with 7200 rupees.
Speaker 1:So Vineet from that first press kit that you talked about in an interview with Sameer and to now, what is it that you wished was still part of your PR job?
Speaker 2:What is it that?
Speaker 1:you miss.
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of things which I miss. You know there's a lot of things which I miss, but there's nothing which I'm really surprised with. Everything has its own you know timelines, everything has its own evolution and I think we are going through that. So what I really miss maximum is the relationship, those meetings, those media rounds. You know you're being there, you're talking. You're not only talking what you're working on, but you talk so much around. You're learning with peers, not only the peers, even from the media right. Your information system was so strong because of the media right, so I think a lot of those things are missing, which I I wish I could.
Speaker 2:I could have done that even today and ask people to do it, uh, so now there is.
Speaker 2:You know and I, we always keep saying that, uh, today's generation, they don't do media rounds, they they're not keen to go out and things like those. But, on the contrary, if you really look at, media does not have time to meet you as well they're, they're happy to speak, chat, call all of that. Then if you say, hey, I want to come and meet you, unless you're really senior, you really have something to be shared or something different, then it's a separate issue.
Speaker 1:But there's nobody has a time to do that it's a very sad part, but I think that's not perhaps confined only to PR it's it's an overall, overall trend. Uh, could you walk us through some of the big changes that you observed in, in, in the PR, maybe the top one or two big changes that you've seen during your 25 year journey, and what do you predict will be the biggest, one of a few of the biggest tailwinds, and not only tailwinds, but those which would propel PR forward?
Speaker 2:So there are two, three conversations which I want to do here. One is this whole paradigm shift which has happened, and this shift is you know, uh, and you know last year I was in one of the lectures and I spoke about this that how last year was 24 years. So I took that as an example in how 24 years, 24 hours, has become 24 seconds. And when I speak about those 24 hours, when I say 24 hours, it means for any news story to be leaked, to be covered, to be produced or reached to the end consumer. It used to take 24 hours. Any crisis happens. The only way is the journalist will go, probably, you know, pick up the, do the on ground coverage from there, click photographs, come back to office, file the story.
Speaker 2:As an organization, as a client, as a customer, I would get those 24 hours to react on it, to create my own narrative, to understand. But right now it's only 24 seconds because of the technology. So the speed has changed so much. So in the last 25 years, this is the biggest change which has happened. So your preparedness you do not have time your narratives, your preparedness, and especially when it comes to crisis, right, you need to be 24 by 7, 365 days, prepared that, if this happens, this is how you'll deal with it, this is what you would do. So I think that's one change which I would talk about. Second change I would talk about is this whole see PR and journalism goes hand in hand. You know, there are stories where PR says we react to the needs of journalism, or the storytelling, or the people or the news. The other side says, hey, this is what comes from the PR. So it's a very, you know, love-hate, hand-in-hand relationship.
Speaker 1:Now the way journalism has changed.
Speaker 2:Pr has to change.
Speaker 1:Journalism has changed.
Speaker 2:Technology has been playing a big role.
Speaker 2:We know so many newsrooms today are led by AI. You know newspapers are okay to have AI-led stories. Newspapers are okay to do editing by AI. You know a sub-editor or the editor's positions are now in danger. So therefore, keeping all of that in mind, we have to adapt to the needs of them. So that's one more big part of it.
Speaker 2:The third part of this is the print. Versus online, the relevance of print is reduced day by day. You know print still is valid in uh, probably I would not even say in town b's it's further down. The rural cat c cities is where the print is still relevant cat a, cat b. That percentage is decreasing day by day. So therefore the need uh, the long format story versus short format story. Nobody has a time and patience to read those stories. So you know there are a lot of changes which have happened and therefore your way of dealing with the industry's change. Where you know you were happy to do traditional, now you have to look at 360 degree For one campaign. If you do not have two elements out of that whole bouquet, you'll miss out. So I think there are a lot of changes which have happened in which we need to adapt.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting what you've talked about the Cat 2 and cat three uh cities, and they're suffering much more from shrinking uh media space. Uh, what according to you? Uh, I wouldn't say the solution, because nobody really has a proper solution for this. Uh, but what do you how? How does you? How do you tackle that for a client? And are the youtube channels helping to replace that? Or they are too highly focused on political news to be of real value to a business client?
Speaker 2:so. So you know today, uh, uh, if I would say, clients have understood the platform economics, they have understood that, depending on their needs, they need to choose platforms and each platform's pros and cons. Traditional media has its own pros but it has its own cons. Traditional media has its own pros but it has its own cons and therefore new media has its own positives and stuff like that. So it's not very difficult to convince a client today a good or, I would say, the appropriate mix as a comp strategy that why we should do traditional media and how much we should focus on traditional media from where the traditional media role finishes and you have to go to the mass media or the platforms like youtube, or or probably the instagram or online platform, or the new media platform like logicalical India, better India, tattva, and blah, blah, blah, right or a brute in that case.
Speaker 2:So you know I think clients understand all of this. It's not very difficult today. The other thing which I personally feel is field is is this is not going to stop here. It's going to evolve further, evolve in a manner that you know. This targeting from a target audience point of view, or a yonder point of view, will go further down, will go further squeezed.
Speaker 2:For example, you example, when now I'm talking to my, say, a partner in UP, I'm not only talking about traditional media, I'm talking about give me five top YouTube channels in UP who I can talk to and convince them to carry our news. What are the costs involved in that? So, you know, uh, I think this is gonna very, very focused language based, even if, even if it means that, uh, you know, because of uh being macro in nature, there are city specific channels. You'll have to tap them because that's how it's going to be working out and you would see, because of because of the whole outburst in on youtube and instagram and things like those, uh, you know, you have to really go deeper and deeper in this do you think that most of that is a paid uh paid option?
Speaker 1:is there any true editorial scope on youtube?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, there is an editorial scope, but then you know you need to create those opportunities on ground for them. So you know, there was a training session which I was doing around, I think, six months back or so, and there you know this was a crisis comms training and I picked up a case studies and I said you know you cannot cannot differentiate between influencer platforms, YouTube platform and the traditional media. You have to treat them same it.
Speaker 1:We used to do awareness sessions for media, bridge building, meetings with media so that they.
Speaker 2:They know what we are, they understand our ethos, they understand our brand and things like those, so that when it come, when a crisis hits, they think about us before writing anything right? So there were various means. So that's how we need to treat these guys. So, especially when we work with a lot of manufacturing, and you know, and that's what we do we say, hey, on a grassroot, you need to treat all of these guys in a same uh, you can't see them with different lenses. You have to make sure that you treat them alike. You're right. Uh, for individuals, it's a, it's a paid strategy. They need money, this is their income and therefore you need to also make sure that you work around these people in a right manner not all of them are paid.
Speaker 2:Not all of them are paid there are people who have created a good platform, authentic platform, and you know, there is this food part and there are so many of these, uh, you know, influences who have created very, very authentic uh platforms where brands are keen to be part of it, uh, and in some cases, they are more authentic than the media I think that's quite a valid thing to say.
Speaker 1:I quite agree with that assessment. So, coming to the startup culture beneath in the pr sector, suddenly you're seeing a lot. It's not sudden, it's probably been on for a while, but a lot of the industry leaders. They are predicting as much as 50 new solopreneur firms opening up in the next year or two, and a lot of these would be led by senior PR professionals on both sides who have been brand side, as well as those who are from agencies. So my first question with this, do you also see a similar explosion of emerging young startup firms and how would you advise them in terms of their startup scale-up journey?
Speaker 2:Very interesting and what a timely question. I don't know if you, I'm sure you're aware. And what a timely question, I don't know if you, I'm sure you're aware. We just had this PRCA hackathon growth initiative yesterday, where there were approximately around 14-15 of these startup comms, companies, which included creative, digital, social, as well as the hardcore publications or integrated firms in the room.
Speaker 2:Now we need to understand when they start, how they start, what is the reason? You know, there are people always in the industry who find them, find themselves stagnant either in the agency or their corporate life, and that's where they want to take some challenges and start, and mostly that happens during, uh, when there is a downturn in the industry, there is a there is psychology behind that.
Speaker 2:When you don't see too much of growth coming their way, but they are more hungry, they want to do more, and then these are the kind of things which happen. I'm probably one of them. I started in 2008 at the peak of slow down right, because that's how it sort of moved. And then during slowdown, there is an opportunity, there is business available, people want to look at cheaper options to communicate. People change uh agencies the bigger agency to the smaller agencies because they want to save costs. So there are a lot of these models and theories which are available there.
Speaker 2:I think this is a perfect time. What I really want to say is the way Indian market is right now. Because of the growth of startup culture, growth of MSME, the need of communication players is highest ever. You know, if you're talking about 50, I would say even if it is 200, it would be less, because that's the way the whole system is right now. You know there are each state. Capital is a market in itself because there's so much happening in states. So I see there is a lot of opportunity out there and I am very, very happy and hopeful that India's independent PR agencies' future are in safe hands.
Speaker 2:Pr agencies future are in safe hand, or to say that we will have a good run, probably another two dozen successful independent PR agencies coming on the top of the chart in next couple of years, or two, three years.
Speaker 1:So what does that mean to take away from your answers? There are two things you've said. You've said there is opportunity, but you also mentioned that these opportunities sometimes emerge in a downturn of the market. So is a downturn in the market what we are seeing now?
Speaker 2:of the peers had a flat run, except few. I feel the businesses were not closed as it was expected. Even the businesses who have changed hands have have got lower retainers and things like those. So that's the buzz around this year. This year, the beginning has been so far very good. I can see businesses moving in the right direction. There is a closure is happening. But if I really look at last year it has been, it has been not not that great. And therefore you know how will it? Uh, if the revenues last year were flat, uh, the increments would also be minimal. If the increments are minimal, that means you might just see a churn in the industry. Now, you know, not everybody can be afforded by other agencies, right?
Speaker 2:and therefore there will be an opportunity coming out of people starting their own businesses so a couple of follow-up questions from what what you've just said.
Speaker 1:What was the reason why business was not being closed? Secondly, as you said, the hikes will probably be less. So at what percentage do you think would be an average height? And my last question is that what does it mean for the industry? Because are we looking at a very fragmented, commoditized industry in that sense, if undercutting is the way to get business, so let me start from the last question.
Speaker 2:That has been the case always. We know how the retainers are going southwards. It's not something which we have seen. I don't want to name the clients, I don't want to sort of talk, I don't want to uh sort of uh, I don't want to sort of talk about the agencies, but we know it, it's, it's something which has been uh the case for years now, because it's also depends on the need of a particular agency. Uh, you know how they play the economics out there, so I don't want to comment on that. As far as uh, the, the salaries, are concerned I believe.
Speaker 2:Uh means I don't have an industry data right now but I feel the salaries would not be increased as previous years. There would be a, you know, limited increase and this could be, as you know, if somebody was doing a 20%, it would be 10 to 12% kind of a jump. So there would be a significant, at least 30 to 40% lower salary increase this year. That's what I personally feel. Again, there could be some cases which might be, you know, very different than others, but largely I feel this is the range where the salaries would be looked at. You know, my theory in our industry is you cannot, cannot really predict things. For an example, uh, the one of the biggest reason why the last six months or last one year has been tough because of the slowdown in the complete funding for startups big reason right. Second, the whole us elections trump coming in you know there were a lot of conversation around and there was not much of clarity in in the system.
Speaker 2:Right, the markets were low, uh, there was some kind of instability because of all the gulf war happening and you know. So there were a lot of challenges. Industry-wise, which we have seen, europe is going through a recession, which is also one big reason, and today no, business is an isolated business. It's all global businesses, right.
Speaker 2:So, therefore, I think it's going to be the way it is this year. While I'm talking to you today, I'm very hopeful. April has seen at least for Kaizen has seen closures which were higher than the whole quarter, the last quarter of previous year.
Speaker 1:So we have closed more businesses in April than the businesses which we closed last quarter.
Speaker 2:So I think I'm very hopeful this year. Let's fingers crossed.
Speaker 1:That's good to hear. So, vineet, what advice would you give to the startups flowing from your experience at the PRC session? What advice would you give to startups who want to scale up in PR specifically for PR?
Speaker 2:So there are two, three key things which I really spoke about. You know, retain, retention is very important and retention of not only clients but people as much. So focus on building those relationships as far as client as well as the, the people. For me that has been a success mantra. I have people who are working with me for 11 years, 12 years. There is a person who's working with me for 17 years, so you know, that's one. My first three clients are still my clients. So that whole focus on retention is very, very important.
Speaker 2:Second very important is you know that's the entrepreneurial skill, or the mindset that there will be good days, there will be good days and there are bad days. But on a bad day, how to keep yourself, you know, up and running is what the art, because not all the times are the same, right? Third, I've been talking about is don't compare your journeys. You know X agency's journey is different, y agency's journey is different.
Speaker 1:Your life- your scenarios are different versus somebody else's scenario is different.
Speaker 2:And finally, very important is try and bring like-minded people with the same attitude on board. As one individual, you can do limited, but if you are two or three of them, you can do much more.
Speaker 1:Vineet, when we were talking earlier, you had mentioned that don't try to build a brand for the sole purpose not sole purpose, but for the aim of selling. So that's an advice which has, I think, been given through the time to startups. Why do you think that matters, see?
Speaker 2:you know, when you create a brand with the purpose of selling, you will not have your heart and emotion into it. And I personally feel until and unless you have a heart and emotion, you can't build a brand. You really need to, and especially when you're in in a service industry. You're not creating a product. You your your, your skills, your mindset, your attitude is your service, right. So so that's one reason which I always felt that. The second is if you create a brand from a purpose of selling, you probably will be disheartened soon, right, but if you're creating with passion and love, you can continue it for longer time. It's a very simple thought process that, because I loved kaizen, or I loved what I did, it's going on. Even on. After 17 years, I feel like it was just yesterday.
Speaker 1:That's indeed, I think that's a very valid point that you have raised, Vineet. Coming to the personal side, at work you give a lot back. I know that even through COVID you were helping to feed people, and I know autism is an issue that you that you take up very strongly. So what are the issues which matter to you and why?
Speaker 2:you know I've chosen few issues because I feel I've got the right partners in those issues, for an example, autism. You know the NGO which we work is they're great people. They're doing some amazing work, you know, I've seen it very closely. Hunger is very important. We work with the old age home because I know the kind of work which is happening there. This year we have sponsored 17 girl child's complete education, so we add on one girl child every year.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of stuff which we are doing.
Speaker 2:And, believe me, there are two, three reasons why I feel it's very important the positivity it brings in the team. You know the thought process which brings it in the team is very, very important. You know it helps us to bring them closer to the reality. So that's one part of it. Second is my personal reasons. My personal reason is I feel, uh, you know, blessings of people is what makes you or breaks you, and for me this is an act of actually, you know some people may find it very mean, but I feel this is the way you sort of you. You help people. You, if you're in a position to help people, you should do that as much as possible and I think that helps. So their, their well wishes and blessings are very, very important. So that's the second reason. And third and foremost reason is you know, as a comms, you actually go and tell your clients about the csr, what you're doing, how you're doing so you know this is a little bit walk the talk from us so we need a set of final questions who?
Speaker 1:who do you regard, as your mentor in pr did? Did you have a mentor that you look up to? And what is your personal mantra at work on how to manage the stresses, especially the pressures of being a leader?
Speaker 2:Mentors. So many of them, so many of them, Because I believe all of these people have taught me and I'm starting in PR industry. Sameer Kale was my first boss. Prema Ashwini yes. Ashwini, you know if I'm, I know that process is important, documentation is important. What a learning I've got from him working right under his nose, Prema being a people's person, you know. Prema gifted me a crochet shawl done by her mother on my son's birthday, and just imagine that time genesis had probably some 70, 80 employees, 70-80 employees.
Speaker 1:You know what it?
Speaker 2:means to me that relationship. My wife still carries it. My son is now 21 years old, but my wife still carries it and she remembers that this was given by Prema because so you know, these are learnings which I've had from these people and they're essence to my life. See, genesis Foundation is one big model for me. You ask me, you know why.
Speaker 1:I do that Because I felt that that's the right way to do.
Speaker 2:What Prima or Genesis Foundation does in the industry is something which is no one. No other industry player leave PR, even in advertising. Have you seen anybody doing that kind of work? No one. So these are the, these are the role models, and I think I, I, I means I have no hesitation saying that. You know, these are the people who have made me what I am right now thank you so much, vinit.
Speaker 1:That was Vinit Handa, founder of Kaizen, talking on the 25th milestone of his career in PR. Thank you, vineet.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Parul. Again, an honor to speak to you. Thank you very much.