Jacqueline Kincer 0:39
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Breastfeeding Talk Podcast where we discuss all things related to motherhood and breastfeeding. And in today's episode, I'm going to be talking to you about nursing your baby in public and the laws protecting your right to breastfeed in public in the US and internationally. And sharing some tips on how to gain confidence while nursing in public or bringing your baby with you. But before we dive in, I wanted to give a shout-out to someone named Naomi over on Amazon. She left an awesome review on our lactation flow formula supplements. And she said I kept getting clogged ducts. One was the size of a bar of soap girl. First of all, ouch. And I feel for you. And then she said nothing I did fully helped it until I started taking these. After one day it had resolved itself and I even went for hours without pumping and it didn't clog up. I love that they are natural and have Tumeric as well.
Thank you so much for the kind review Naomi and for sharing your personal experience. That sounds super rough. And I'm so glad that the lactation flow formula helps you clear that horrible clog. And yes, it has turmeric and curcumin which is the anti-inflammatory compound found within turmeric. So that's concentrated we've got probiotics in there that are specific for mastitis and lactation, as well as choline, which is the component of lecithin that is responsible for helping to prevent and clear clogged ducts. But without the side effects of lecithin, like stomach upset and digestive issues. So if you want to check that out, we've got a link in the show notes for you. But just head over to Amazon and type in Holistic Lactation, and you'll find all of our supplements over there. So I want to bring you back to today's episode and talk about that nursing in public.
You know, I'll take a moment just to share my personal experience, which is really that I probably didn't really get out of the house and attempt to nurse until maybe, I don't know two or three weeks postpartum with my first. And of course, I felt super weird and nervous about it and was still wearing my maternity clothes. But I don't think that I even stayed out long enough for my baby to get hungry. And I probably didn't need to nurse them. And, in public, and I don't have a lot of recollection because this is like 10 years ago. But I do know that one of the major outings I made, at least by myself was to a well actually League meeting, which of course, was totally fine to breastfeed there. And that was, encouraged. Obviously, that's why we're there for breastfeeding support. So that was great. And just seeing other mothers at that meeting nurse their babies like it was no big deal. It was just something that happened in the background, while they carried on a conversation while they had a snack while they drink some water. And it wasn't the forefront of everything like I was making it to be now breastfeeding wasn't going particularly well for me at that time. But just seeing how other mothers so nonchalantly nurse their babies gave me the confidence that I needed to do it.
And what's funny is I I never was like some, really, I don't know, outspoken or very vocal or like a huge advocate of breastfeeding or anything at that time. It was still very new to me. And I just never thought twice about it after that experience where I would go out in public and I would nurse and of course, I didn't want my boob to be out and my nipple showing and I would do everything I could to get my baby latched on quickly and go from there. The more I did it, the better I got with it, and the more confident that I felt. And it's interesting to me because over time, I would just show up to things with my son and maybe I'd be babywearing maybe I was carrying him. And when he needed to nurse I would just simply nurse him and it never, never occurred to me to ask anybody's permission. It never occurred to me to even ask anybody permission to bring my baby. My son was very clingy. Okay, he was a very tiny baby. And if I left him for even half an hour, he would lose his mind. So it like wasn't an option for me. to not do life, and it wasn't an option for me to, like, do life and not bring my son, as he had, he was part of me like we were intertwined. And there was no way that I could go do any normal life stuff without him. You know, like, I mean, if I went to a doctor's appointment, he came, and it was an appointment for me because he would obviously be hungry and need me. And I just, it never occurred to me to ask permission, because I just felt like I had no other choice like to meet his needs, he needed to be with me. And that might sound crazy to some of you. If you've had high-needs babies, then it doesn't.
But I just, it didn't occur to me to like pump and give bottles to him, I didn't really feel like I wanted to pump I hadn't really used my pump. I think maybe by the time I had experimented with it, it was kind of painful and not enjoyable. So it just wasn't something that I felt like, I really want to do this. And that's like a goal of mine, it just seems so much easier to just bring it with me, especially as he got older and nursing was going better. So that being said, I didn't set out with the mindset of I'm going to just do what I want and not care about other people's opinions, it was really more coming from a place of necessity, where I just didn't ask permission to bring the baby, let alone nurse the baby. And I just did it. And most of the time, people either thought that he was sleeping in my arms, or if I was nursing him while I was baby-wearing, they just thought he was in the carrier and they didn't know he was nursing. So what I'm trying to impart upon you by sharing the story is that most of the time, people don't even notice that you're nursing in public.
And even if they do notice, who cares, right? Like, I mean, on some level, just because if they're noticing it, and they're making a point of letting that they've noticed it, that's really about them and their need to express their opinion or, or make you feel a certain way because of how your nursing makes them feel. And you're not responsible for that. Right, like other people can have their own reactions to things. And that has nothing to do with you. Period. Like that. It really is that simple. So I never got any kind of negative reaction, at least that I'm aware of. Of course, I don't know that I'm fully aware of what's going on around me a lot of the time, but I never got a negative look, a comment, nothing. My nursing my baby. In fact, I got the opposite. I got comments from elderly people who would be like, that is so great that you're breastfeeding. You know, even people who didn't breastfeed, they'd be like, Wow, I wish I could have, made it work, I had such a hard time, and kudos to you, and just Wow, way to go. Like I would get just smiles from people, I could sit in the middle of the mall, where they'd have like a little, seated seating area, nurse, my baby, and the amount of people that just smiled at me, and made eye contact and made me feel welcome. It was wonderful. For context, I live in like Phoenix, Arizona.
So it's not like some super progressive place. It is a very big metropolitan area, it is in the US. And I would just say that it's not not common that I see people out and about with newborns or babies, let alone nursing. In my neck of the woods, there's suburbs, where that might be more common. But anyway, I'm just sharing that for context. So that being said, everyone's got different comfort levels. So we are going to talk about that. But I want to start off by talking about laws. And we'll start off here in the United States. So I think it's truly essential to know your rights when it comes to breastfeeding in public. In the US, almost every state has laws protecting a mother's right to breastfeed her baby in public. So as of 2021, the laws regarding breastfeeding in public and the United States, do vary. But this is kind of the most, you can go to each state's website, right, like viewer, as I live in Montana. And you can go to Google and be like Montana's breastfeeding laws. So, feel free to look that up, and validate this yourself, right? But the, the aim of these laws, it's funny that even have these laws, right? Like, it's almost like, shouldn't we it? I don't know, isn't this just a thing that should be normal?
Like, we need a law to protect us? This clearly we do, because the laws aimed to prevent discrimination against breastfeeding mothers, because they have been discriminated against. Right. And so it provides you with the right to breastfeed your child in any location, including public spaces, and there's different provisions, depending from state to state, maybe they spell out something specific like parks, restaurants, shopping centers, public transportation, government buildings. You know, basically, I think in my state, the law says something about, like, you can breastfeed anywhere where you have the right to be so like if you are trespassing on someone's property, you don't have the right to be there and nor can you breastfeed there because you just don't have the right to be there. So it was like basically anywhere You're allowed to be is where you can breastfeed. I like that phrasing. I think that's really great. So some states have specific language in their laws that explicitly state that a woman has the right to breastfeed in public. Other states have some more general kind of protections against discrimination based on breastfeeding.
So they also, a lot of states will exempt breastfeeding from public indecency laws or other restrictions that could perhaps prohibit nursing and public. So it's not indecent exposure, it's, not nudity in public. And so they've put specific provisions for that. So just I would say, it's important to check the specific laws of your state because if you are ever confronted, it's usually not going to be by like a member of the general public, it is usually going to be a situation where somebody that works for business, where you are, is confronting you about it and asking you to stop or to cover up or to leave. And those are really unfortunate circumstances. The other thing is that this relates more to like employment laws. And that's actually going to be covered in an upcoming episode with a guest that we have, that's an attorney coming on the show, because there's been some recent laws passed at the federal level that are important for you to know about. So I wanted to bring you a really accurate summary and representation of those laws. But I would just, again, encourage you to just read the specific laws of your state and know them, because more likely than not, if something were to happen, where you were confronted, it really would be more of a discrimination issue. And it's typically a business. And you can find numerous news stories about this, unfortunately, happens from time to time, where somebody was at a public pool, and they were asked to, cover up or stop breastfeeding, or that you can't breastfeed and a pool, because what if breast milk gets in the pool?
First of all, we know that pool is full of urine. So seriously, stop yourself right there. But like, there's just made up reasons, right. And if you don't know your rights, and you don't have them, I'm not saying you need to memorize it word for word. But if you don't know your rights, and you're confronted with that, it's kind of difficult in the moment to come up with something to say. And so if you can just simply say, there is a law in our state that protects my right to breastfeed my child in this location. That's all you need to say, you literally don't need to say anything else. If you continue to be harassed, it would actually be something where, at that point, you could contact like, one forcement, for instance, if there's an issue there. And these things usually make the news then look really bad for the business. And you should absolutely advocate for yourself, I would also encourage you, just as kind of a side note with that doesn't necessarily have to do with the laws, but if somebody approaches you, they're in violation of one of those laws. If you are with another person, particularly like your partner, if they're going to be with you a lot or another family member, or maybe you get together with a friend, a lot of the time, I would actually have this conversation proactively, and say, Hey, in the off chance that someone approaches me, and is trying to get me to stop nursing in public, I need you to back me up and support me and like defend me in that situation. And just, maybe tell them about the law and say, This is important, and I need you to know this.
So you can be an advocate for me, should something ever come up. Because that will just again, you'll be prepared and you won't be as flustered and you'll be really confident in your knowledge. So yeah, I would just check those specific laws. Sometimes these things are updated since you might hear this episode. So local statutes, state local health department's, anything like that we'll have up-to-date information on breastfeeding laws in your area. Internationally. Many countries also have laws in place to protect mothers right to breastfeed in public. So for example, in Australia, it is illegal to discriminate a mother, it is illegal to discriminate against a mother breastfeeding and public under the Sex Discrimination Act of 1984. Similarly, in the United Kingdom, the Equality Act of 2010 protects breastfeeding mothers from discrimination in public places, including restaurants, shops, and public transportation. In Canada, breastfeeding is protected under the candidate under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which guarantees gender equality, many other countries have similar laws in place. So it's essential to know your rights if you plan to travel or if you live abroad, or not in the US with your baby. I will say the most breastfeeding-friendly place I've ever been was Canada.
We've brought our son twice there once when he was a baby once he was a toddler and still nursing. And I have never felt so welcomed to breastfeed in public. In fact, I've never seen so many other moms breastfeed their children in public as when I was in Vancouver, Canada. So I mean, you could be at a park, the beach, whatever, and it was a very common thing to see there. So, way to go Canada. Alright, now let's dive into some tips on confidence while nursing in public. Not everyone is going to be as somehow naively but sort of innately confident as I was in my experience. Um, so it's essential to know your rights. But it's also crucial that you feel confident and comfortable while nursing your baby in public. A lot of moms don't. And there will be a lot of reasons that I hear why that's the case. And just, I don't, I don't feel comfortable. So it's really for my comfort that I don't nurse in public. But I think that there's a deeper examination that you can do, I think, at the end of the day, if this is something that you're just not open to and never willing to explore doing, then that's fine, then you probably aren't listening to this episode. But if you're having some hesitation, and you're feeling like oh my gosh, it's probably just easier to like pump and bottle feed. It does not ask any mom who has done that, because if you are going to pump, you have to keep that milk chilled, then you have to find a way to warm up that milk unless your baby is okay with chilled milk, if there's a lot of cleaning, and all of that, and just because you've brought bottles to feed your baby on the go. Now you also have to consider removing milk from your breasts. So you don't get things like clogged ducts or mastitis or lower your milk supply.
And so how are you going to pump on the go. So realistically, if your baby is latching in your nursing even part-time, it is typically much easier to nurse in public than it is to try to bring express milk and feed that and consider pumping and all of that. Likewise, with formula preparation needs to happen in a safe environment that is properly cleaned. It is not as simple as shaking formula and some, kind of tepid temperature water inside of a bottle and feeding that to your baby. That is not safe formula preparation. So there's a lot of considerations to make. And I would just say that, always choose what's best for you. But in general, nursing, it's easier. So here's what I would suggest. First is practice this at home. So before you decide to go out in public practice at home in front of a mirror, or with like a trusted friend or a family member, you can see when you sit in front of the mirror, you can see how much you don't see if that makes sense.
So, someone that's seated across from you or walking by or what have you, you will see more than they will. And so in front of the mirror, I think is a great strategy. But even another friend or family member, you can even have them take a photo and show it to you, if that's helpful. So you can even try practicing on like a FaceTime call with somebody or a video call if that helps you as well. So this can help you become more comfortable with the process, you can kind of work out get the muscle memory going and figure out the best clothing and positions for you and your baby. Right like maybe it's a button-down shirt, maybe it's the to shirt method, which if you don't know what that is, that's where you have like an undershirt, typically like a nursing tank. And then you have just like what other other type of shirt you'd like to wear over that. And so you have that outer layer of shirt and you lift that up towards your neck and then the under layer, a nursing tank where you pull that down. And so there's just this narrow little area.
And remember, your baby's head is large, okay, it is large, and depending on the size of your breasts can be bigger than your breasts, not always. And it covers quite a bit, but you're really just trying to cover the nipple and areola. At the same time. Remember that there are many people that present themselves in public showing a lot more breasts than you will ever show when you're breastfeeding. So try to, kind of keep things in context there. You may feel like it's better to invest in nursing-friendly clothes, there are so many stylish and comfortable nursing clothes available. Like you would be shocked. And it's not just like you're stuck to going to buying nursing tanks or whatever I mean, stores from like h&m have nursing dresses and all sorts of things. So there's a lot of brands out there, there's a lot of options, there's so many ways to find things that make it easy to breastfeed discreetly, tops with easy access.
Of course, I would say a nursing bra A must like if you're wearing a bra have a nursing bra, because the ability to unclip the cup and to fold that down is key, right like it just for for ease. It also can give you a bit of a buffer. I know a lot of nursing bras have some material that maybe goes on the top side of your breast and on the side of your breast. So covering up a little more of that tissue and then leaving enough exposed for your baby to latch on. So, looking for some options that can give you some privacy, I generally don't recommend nursing covers, not because I think that we should just all be normalizing breastfeeding in public, which I mean, I think we should, but I don't recommend them for a few reasons. One is I live in a hot climate so I can tell you for sure that they're not safe here. But they're also not safe in many places. Lots of places get hot in the summer or the winter depending on which hemisphere you live in. And there it's the same reason why if you haven't heard this and we are going to do an episode on car seat safety so stay tuned. But if you've not heard this like even having your child in the car seat bucket seat and putting like a thin Muslim blanket or a car seat cover over that. We do not recommend that pediatricians don't recommend that like We know that that is a safety issue where your baby can very easily overheat and it restricts airflow. The same is true for a nursing cover, especially considering that the baby is against your body. So there's warmth coming from your body. Okay, they now their nose is close to your chest.
So their airflow like we need to keep their airway and air flowing around them is open and free as possible. When you were in nursing covered, that is not happening. And I will tell you this, like I just said about practicing at home and looking in the mirror, when you were a nursing cover, you have this big sort of apron, like a gigantic napkin that is over you and your baby, it draws so much more attention to you. And it is so obvious that you are nursing your baby. So if you like, to me, the goal of a nursing cover is that you're more discreet about it, I would actually say that it ends up in execution being the opposite, that it is 100% obvious that your nursing, in fact, people typically will avoid you avoid eye contact with you, which is maybe what you want, right. But it can be very like socially off-putting. And yeah, it can be a little awkward. The other thing is that most babies don't like them, and they will fight you. And it can be very difficult to see how to latch a baby, it's no darker in there. The other thing about nursing is that it's not just food, right? It's comfort, it's a sense of safety and protection. And its connection with you. Nursing is a relationship that you have with your baby. When you wear a cover, either, you're going to have to be having your head looking down into the cover. So you can make that crucial eye contact with your baby.
Or you're not going to be having that element of that and your baby is confined to a dark space that is hot and stifling. To get their food. I just as a lactation consultant, knowing everything that I know about the mechanics and the dynamics of breastfeeding, I would say that that is it's turning breastfeeding into something that is just maybe not as enjoyable for your child. Now, that being said, I do think that there are some babies, it's certainly the minority that may benefit from that, there may be a sensory overload, and they will not latch as long as there are visual and auditory distractions. And something like a nursing cover can certainly help to mitigate those distractions and get your baby to be more calm and focus. I would say that utilizing something like a light scarf that you can fan out and kind of put wherever you want to strategically, but it's less overall fabric coverage and allows maybe some more airflow, not a little scarf. Okay, I'm talking about like a woven, thin kind of material scarf, that that can be even more discreet than a nursing cover, certainly less expensive. And just, be something a lot more versatile, that you can really just kind of wear as an accessory. You could tie it around, your diaper bag, handles, whatever, right. So that's just kind of a little niche tip. So anyway, having something nursing friendly, that you're wearing, regardless of whether you plan on using a nursing cover is going to be essential for this to be successful for you. I think you don't have to invest in particularly like, nursing-friendly clothes, I would just say, like an actual like nursing dress or nursing shirt, I would just say that, a t-shirt method.
You know, depending on the length of your torso, maybe just you have a shirt that you lift up, maybe you pull the shirt down and you just nurse that way, whatever is comfortable for you, this will probably evolve over time as well. Here's my next tip. If you can, sometimes it's difficult, but try to choose a comfortable location. So if there's a bench if there's a quiet corner, some places offer designated nursing rooms for added privacy. If you didn't know this, and this is one of the reasons why I love them is target their fitting room areas. I don't know if it's every single target ever. But like every target I've ever been into. In the dressing room fitting room areas for the women, there is one that is reserved for nursing moms. And I love that because it is a non-restroom location. So you should not be forced to be nursing your baby in a restroom. And that's just kind of gross. Right? You have a nice bench that you can sit down on, you have a place to put your things you can put your things down and not worry about safety like someone taking your things right. You can bring the whole stroller in there with you. It's quiet, it's calm, and you can, get more of yourself exposed and make it easier to latch your baby on you can change your baby in there. Like it's just a really nice thing to offer. A lot of types of sports games, I've seen this at airports, larger employers will have this but there's a company called mama Hall. And they have what's called like breastfeeding pods.
And you can pump in there you can nurse in there. And they are just private little portable rooms essentially, that are set up for breastfeeding. Those are really cool. In a lot of airports I have used the airline lounges. I've even been able to just use like a conference room and if it's if there's one available or you could book in advance, and you could nurse in there and have just a place to like work lax and reset, you can get day passes for those kinds of things. But a lot of airports do have nursing rooms, I have seen some setups in airports that are in bathrooms, and that is so not okay, and not where you should be nursing or pumping. If you are pumping, and you don't have a battery-powered pump, you're going to want to look for a place to plug it in. So that can be a little bit trickier. You can buy battery adapter packs for anything that's plugged in, I would just say go on Amazon and look up battery adapter pack. And it's like a common thing. So if you really feel the need, and you might have to pump like that's just something to consider. But yeah, try to find a comfortable location, again, just somewhere where you can sit, maybe a quiet spot, especially if your baby is beyond the newborn stage. And they might be a little bit distracted in public. So I already said, like we discussed snowing laws in your area, this can really help boost your confidence, though. Again, just making sure you're prepared. If someone questions your right to breastfeed in public or, expresses that maybe that's something that they don't want you to do there. And then having a support person, I think that this is a great idea.
So if it's not something that you would normally have, but having a friend or family member with you, maybe it's another mom that you've become friends with, or from a moms group that can provide additional support. Because when there is someone with you, and you are nursing your baby, no one will say anything to you like I would be really shocked. I think it does happen. But I think it's way more rare. And Sad to say, especially if it's a male, if you have a male with you and your woman and I just it is less likely that someone is going to say something to you, unfortunately, but even having another female with you. Again, additional support can make you feel more at ease, right, you can have a conversation. And just let breastfeeding be something that sort of falls into the background. Or you can take that moment to connect with your baby either way. And then just honestly, as sort of a mindset thing, remembering the benefits of breastfeeding. There are so many health benefits for both you and your baby. And just remember that you're providing this essential nourishment for your little one, your baby does not get to choose when they experience the horrible pangs of hunger that they do eight to 12 times a day. Right? It is a different need than an adult and their need is such a biological one. And so remembering that you're meeting that need and conveying so many incredible benefits, and trying to look at it that and think of those things when it comes to breastfeeding as opposed to breast milk and food. Like yes, that is part of what breastfeeding is. But it's certainly not the whole of it.
So those are my best tips in terms of like actually nursing in public, but I think it's also worth going into some tips about bringing your baby with you. So like I had mentioned at the beginning kind of my own story was it just didn't occur to me to ask permission and no one ever said anything. But this is kind of a must no matter how you're feeding your baby but pack a well-stocked diaper bag. Like make sure you have everything you need. I mean diapers wipes, it change of clothes for you, maybe Andrew baby, I will say sometimes it is handy for you to have like an extra like T-shirt or just some sort of a shirt for yourself. Because breast milk sometimes it kind of sprays out or you leak or whatever, have extra pads, something like that. Any necessary breastfeeding supplies. You know, if you're still using nipple cream or nipple shield or something like that, make sure you've got that packed with you as well. And then I would highly encourage you to begin babywearing babywearing is so great. For so many reasons. One is just it's a great hands-free way. It's obviously a lot more compact than bringing a stroller with you, or trying to carry your child in the bucket seat which we don't really recommend anyway and just for posture and airway and breathing reasons. The amount of time your child's in the car seat should be minimized to just the car ride. But it's much easier to navigate crowded spaces and nurse on the go when you master using a baby carrier. So we have a really great episode with Karla Castro from the babywearing club. And I would encourage you to go check that out. And she's got an awesome guide that's linked up in the show notes just about beginning that, babywearing.
We've also got another great episode with Meghan Paul from amphibia baby about baby wearing where she goes into some more of the practicalities and choosing a carrier. So those are two excellent episodes if you want to know more about baby-wearing and particularly how to nurse in a baby carrier. And then the other tip I would say is to plan your outings around your baby's schedule. So try to plan your outings during times when your baby is typically awake and content. They're more likely to be comfortable and cooperative. If you've been able to nurse them like right before you leave, that's always great. Because then you maybe won't even have to again while you're out or if you're out for a longer period of time. It'll be a little while until you have to nurse your baby again. And then my last tip is really just to be patient with your yourself and with your baby. It's really important to remember that babies can be unpredictable. And it's essential to be patient and flexible. When you're bringing your baby with you in public. They may cry and you're like, they are normally the happiest baby and they never cry. And I don't know what's going on. They may be overstimulated or overtired or who knows, right? Whatever it is, it was just that day. Maybe they are teething unexpectedly. I would say the biggest thing about being a parent and a good human in general is trying to keep yourself emotionally regulated. So patience is a part of that. And I would really, I would expect things like you'll you'll figure it out, if you haven't already, right. But like, expect the baby to spit up that doesn't normally spit up, expect them to have a block poopy diaper that they don't normally have. Like, there are things that will generally happen.
The cool thing is, is that most of the time, even though there is a lot of negativity in the world, and there's a lot of polarization and whatnot, when somebody sees a mom with a child, and she is needing some extra help with that child's, there's usually someone that will come up to you and be kind and offer help. What can I get you? What can I do? Are you Oh, you're doing such a great job. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen all the time. But it certainly does happen. And so remember that there are kind of good-natured people in the world. And hopefully, you encounter them many times, whenever you are out and about with your children. So I would just say, patients above all else, and being super flexible. And just knowing that, you may not get to your destination on time, and that's okay. I used to be early to everything. And that was just how I was like, if you weren't early, you were late. And then I had kids, and like, I'm usually pretty on time for things maybe even slightly late. So like, it's okay, it's okay. And I don't even have babies anymore. So yeah, that basically wraps up today's episode on nursing your baby in public, I truly hope that you found this information helpful and empowering. And just remember that breastfeeding is this, really natural and essential part of early motherhood, and you have the right to nurse your baby wherever and whenever they need to be fed. So thank you for joining us on the breastfeeding talk podcast. I will see you next time.