Unleashing the Shopify Blueprint for Success With Digital Marketing Expert, Tina Bar
Dec 05, 2023Season 1Episode 206
Firing The Man
You're about to unlock the world of entrepreneurial e-commerce alongside digital marketing specialist, Tina Barr. With 15 years of experience and a focus on product-based Shopify stores, Tina gifts us an engaging walkthrough on how to transition from managing big-budget ad campaigns to helping small businesses flourish online. You'll grasp the importance of utilizing Shopify as your prime tool, and Tina hands out her top tips for driving traffic to your store too.
This episode isn't just about setting up shop; we're here to guide you through the maze of data segmentation and the art of decluttering in the e-commerce world. Tina encourages small businesses to wield tools like Clavio to make data more approachable and manageable. You'll understand why starting small and gradually scaling up is key to sustainable business growth. Tina helps us see through the clutter, emphasizing the need to streamline SKUs for better sales and profitability. Get ready to uncover the power of limited availability, and how seasonal products can create a demand surge.
But we're not stopping there. We're pushing the boundaries and exploring workplace challenges and strategies for success with Tina. Traditional employment has its drawbacks, and Tina takes us through her perspective on these. Get ready to understand the importance of continuous learning and adaptability in the fast-paced e-commerce industry. As we wrap up the episode, Tina highlights her most crucial coaching lessons - decluttering your digital, physical, and mental spaces, understanding the importance of marketing, and defining your customer avatar are just a few. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or an established one, you won't want to miss out on these actionable insights!
You're about to unlock the world of entrepreneurial e-commerce alongside digital marketing specialist, Tina Barr. With 15 years of experience and a focus on product-based Shopify stores, Tina gifts us an engaging walkthrough on how to transition from managing big-budget ad campaigns to helping small businesses flourish online. You'll grasp the importance of utilizing Shopify as your prime tool, and Tina hands out her top tips for driving traffic to your store too.
This episode isn't just about setting up shop; we're here to guide you through the maze of data segmentation and the art of decluttering in the e-commerce world. Tina encourages small businesses to wield tools like Clavio to make data more approachable and manageable. You'll understand why starting small and gradually scaling up is key to sustainable business growth. Tina helps us see through the clutter, emphasizing the need to streamline SKUs for better sales and profitability. Get ready to uncover the power of limited availability, and how seasonal products can create a demand surge.
But we're not stopping there. We're pushing the boundaries and exploring workplace challenges and strategies for success with Tina. Traditional employment has its drawbacks, and Tina takes us through her perspective on these. Get ready to understand the importance of continuous learning and adaptability in the fast-paced e-commerce industry. As we wrap up the episode, Tina highlights her most crucial coaching lessons - decluttering your digital, physical, and mental spaces, understanding the importance of marketing, and defining your customer avatar are just a few. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or an established one, you won't want to miss out on these actionable insights!
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you are capable of more, then join us. This show will help you build a business and grow your passive income streams in just a few short hours per day. And now your host serial entrepreneurs David Shomer and Ken Wilson.
Speaker 2:
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast. On today's episode, we have the honor to interview Tina Barr. Tina is a digital marketer who specializes in helping online entrepreneurs set up and grow product-based Shopify stores. Tina has been in the advertising business for 15 years Before becoming an e-commerce merchant herself. Tina managed marketing campaigns at major advertising and tech firms in San Francisco. Now Tina takes her marketing skills honed on big-budget advertising campaigns for Fortune 500 companies to help Shopify store owners succeed in the booming world of entrepreneurial e-commerce. Welcome to the show, tina.
Speaker 3:
I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 2:
Yes, absolutely Same. Can you please share a little bit with our listeners about your background and path into becoming a digital marketing expert?
Speaker 3:
Sure, so I'll start with where I am now and then I'll go backwards a little bit. So I'm actually an e-commerce coach. I work one-on-one and in group settings with mostly entrepreneurs that are looking to get started in e-commerce, but also some that have been doing it for a while and just have plateaued in art sure how to get to the next level. So they feel like there's something missing. And what I bring to the table with that is I've worked, like you said in the intro, in advertising agencies, so traditional advertising and then later in my career I worked at retail marketing companies and tech companies in the Bay Area. So I got exposed to everything from big ad budgets, consumer insight and just how companies work, and now I've been able to take those insights and apply them to smaller businesses. So I think it's a really unique way of putting my past skills together with something that most of my clients have never been exposed to because their backgrounds are so different from mine.
Speaker 2:
No, that's definitely interesting and definitely have some good insights from having all that experience and the marketing and advertising space. So cool, I'm excited to get going. First question I've got should e-commerce sellers use Shopify? If so, how can Shopify help an entrepreneur scale their business?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, sure. So when I explain Shopify to people, it's really about using the right tool for the job, right? So if you're going to do e-commerce and sell products, then Shopify is the best in class. That's what it's been built to do. A lot of people ask me well, why should they use WordPress or WooCommerce? Well, that's great if you want to do an informational business, and selling products is secondary. But most people I work with really want to sell product, so just use the right tool. Shopify is constantly innovating. One of the things that's really cool about them is they have sort of the basic package, so you have everything that you need to sell a product, but then they have their app store and that's where you can layer on all kinds of different functionality, but it's plug in place so you can customize your store to whatever you need it to be without hiring coders or getting really deep into the tech. So that's why I'm a big fan of Shopify.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely. And if someone who's listening now, maybe they have a product idea, maybe they launched a product on Etsy or Amazon or Walmart, but they don't have their own website. And so what are kind of like steps one, two and three to get them? You know you recommend Shopify as the best tool in class, so what are the first three steps they can do to get their own store online?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, sure. So I would say, if you're already selling on a marketplace, that's great, because you have proof of concept. And that's always where I tell everyone to start is you need to get at least five to 10 sales from a stranger, not your mom, that's all right.
Speaker 2:
So I like that.
Speaker 3:
And I really like marketplaces for that purpose because they have built-in traffic and they show you if there's actually demand for what you want to sell. Then you can go create a Shopify store really in an afternoon. I would start with a free theme. Keep it really cheap and don't overwhelm your store. So just put your best sellers up there. Make sure you're really clear about what the differentiators are, why somebody needs that product, and just get a store up there and then start marketing it. Post it up on social media, share it with people. You have to bring traffic to your Shopify store. I think that's the biggest misconception. When people start out and they're used to marketplaces where the business can come to them, with Shopify, you have to all of a sudden become a marketer and so you need to make a plan for that.
Speaker 2:
No, that makes sense. Now, what is the most important marketing channel for all e-commerce business owners?
Speaker 3:
I think people are going to be surprised to hear that I think that's email. So I say every store needs to have a pop-up or needs to have some kind of way for people to get on your email list. And the reason being is that social media there's so many new social media platforms coming up all the time and it's so hard to get reach in this day and age since the iOS changes and the algorithm changes. So social media is an important piece, but it's just never going to bring you enough traffic. The next one would be ads. But ads are super expensive and, again, when you're starting out, you usually don't have the skills or the knowledge to be really successful with ads. So email is a really cheap, simple way to communicate with people who are interested in your product, and what can be better than actually getting in their inbox? Like that's as close as you can get to meeting somebody face to face. Like our inboxes are actually a really personal space, so you're right next to messages from you know their kid's school, or from their neighbor, from whatever is going on in their life. So using email is really important. And the other thing is email is proven to have one of the highest conversion rates of all the marketing channels.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I definitely agree with you, and I don't remember the statistic off the top math to don't quote me, but I think it's like 40% of all e-commerce business comes through email marketing, still in 23.
Speaker 3:
And so it's pretty amazing and the funny thing. I hear all the time from people we were actually talking about this before we got on like what are the patterns that I see? One of the patterns I hear over and over again is oh, I couldn't dare send an email, I don't want to bother them, and it's like well, you need to flip the script on that, because if you want someone to buy your products, you need to invite them into your store. And what a better way to invite them to send them an email and say hey, I have something really cool that you're going to love. It's at a great price or it's going to ship fast or whatever the benefits are. But unless you invite them to come by it, you're just sitting on a digital property that does nothing for you and you're never going to make it in the business.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely agree, and I think I don't remember who said this, but it's. I think it's a form of psychology of the no like and trust. But there's like a seven touch point barrier to where, if you're, if you're thinking about buying a product this is especially for like over $50 products, over $99 products if you're wanting to buy a product, seven touch points before you actually convert emails. One of those touch points, like he said, they're getting an email in their inbox with messages from you know there's kid, school and whatever else, and so more touch points there. They'll no like and trust you, they'll see your branding and all that. That's excellent. Now we have well. Before I get into the other question, do you have a preferred email provider? Do you recommend using the? I think there's one that's bolted on to Shopify. Do you recommend using that one? Do you recommend Clavio, convertkit or any of the other?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I think it really depends what stage of your business you're at. If you're just starting out and you're still at that proof of concept stage, then it's fine to use the built in Shopify email platform, just because it doesn't cost extra. It's super simple. It's a great way to get started. But as soon as you start getting some traction and you decided that you're going to be serious about your business again, clavio is the tool to use. And what I think is so amazing about Clavio is Clavio gives you not just the data but also the segmentation and the complexity that used to be only available to really like Fortune 500 companies. Right, like, for that tech stack you would have to pay a lot of money, and that they've managed to make that accessible for, you know, most stores you're going to be like 50 bucks a month, 60 bucks a month. That you get access to that level sophistication is really astounding to me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I like that where you again, it was kind of like what you had mentioned proof of concept. I want you know 10 people other than your mother to buy the product, and then you know if you're at that stage, using the free tool, keep the budget, you know, simple, and then as you're graduating to you know proof of concepts working. You get 50 people that are not they're not there, 50 strangers buying your product. You know, maybe you can kind of switch over to a higher end tool. So I really like that. My next question is and you've worked with a lot of business owners and so one of the companies that we have in our portfolio is more complicated than the other ones, and the reason is it has lots of SKUs. It has, I think, between 400 and 600 SKUs, and so it's a lot of SKUs, and so will cutting your SKU count lead to more sales and profit and happiness and, if so, how does that work?
Speaker 3:
I mean, I guess the first question to ask in that scenario is like, why do you have so many SKUs? You know some businesses. Yeah, maybe a lot of SKUs is just necessary. Like, let's say, you had a motorcycle parts store. Like, of course you're going to have to have a lot of SKUs because you're selling a lot of parts. So that would be a case where I would say, okay, that's an exception to the rule, but for the most part, the less SKUs you have, the better. And the reason being, we're selling to other human beings and we get easily overwhelmed. I don't know. Like, if you go to, the good example is you go to the supermarket and you go to the bread aisle, and sometimes I just want to scream why are there so many choices of bread? Like I don't even know what to pick. So I just pick the one that's closest to me, the front of the aisle, and that's it. And I think it's the same thing with stores when people come into an online store and there's let's say, you're a big, a big category right now is dropship. Let's say you're doing dropship or print on demand on t-shirt, and you have all these different sizes, all these different colors, and then you give me 10 patterns to choose from and it's just decision overwhelm. And as soon as someone gets to that point of decision overwhelm, instead of making a choice, they're just going to bounce and you've lost the opportunity for a sale. So that's why I think it's really important to constantly be looking at your SKUs and saying, okay, why is this SKU here? Is it a best seller? Is it high volume? Is it seasonal, or am I testing it? And I'm really going to put my marketing effort behind it. If it's not one of those answers, and it's just well, I have access to it because my print on demand supplier lets me have it, and I hear that a lot and it's like well, but that's not a good business answer. And so just because you can have it in your store, you can't just wish that someone's going to come in by it and you're actually hurting your business by setting it up that way. So I think there's always a lot of work to be done. I work with my clients a lot, where we go quarterly, we run reports, we call the bottom products and they get really emotionally attached and they say, oh well, but you know, someone bought that one so they might buy it again, like yeah, but they bought it one. And essentially what I tell them is it's costing you money to have that stale inventory in your store. Even if it's a drop ship product, it's still stale inventory in that, let's say, you're running performance at max ads on Google or you're running some kind of advertising. Ad budget is going to a product that's not selling and it's taking that money away from a product that really is a winner. And so once you think of it that way, you'll take the emotion out and be a lot better about cutting the dead weight from your store.
Speaker 2:
Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And are there any other metrics or KPIs that you would look at? Like, say, you know, a client came to you and they had 500 SKUs and you're like, well, this is a lot like. What would you look at to trim that down? Would you look at overall sales? How would you analyze that?
Speaker 3:
Yeah. So usually I start with overall sales and it's like the 80 20 rule Usually there's. You know, 20% of your products are bringing you 80% of your revenue. So it's like, okay, well, let's double down on what's working and then let's look at what we can get rid of. And sometimes the answer is you know, these products are really cool, but you don't need to have your October Halloween collection live on the site in February. Like, just hide that product and bring it back seasonally when it makes sense. Just like if you use the example of like an amazing market or Starbucks, you can't buy the pumpkin spice latte year round. You can only buy it in the certain window of time and that creates demand for the product. So sometimes it's a matter of okay, this is a great product, but we're just going to give it a window of time to create demand for it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so that makes sense. And like anything seasonal, like retire it until the season is there and then open it up. And then the 80 20 rule I like that a lot actually is like yeah, 20% of your products are usually driving 80% of your revenue, and so the other 80 are on the shopping.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and the other part that goes into. That is like where your money gets tied up, right. So if you're buying products and you're buying a lot of product that's sitting on your shelves, it's holding you back from buying more of actually what's selling or from investing in different parts of your business, because your money is tied up in this product that you're just, you can't do, it's just, it's basically a paperweight until it sells and turns into cash.
Speaker 2:
And it's stifling growth because you're holding that inventory whereas you could be launching your products or buying more inventory of the 20% that are selling, and so Right, exactly so.
Speaker 3:
I always, yeah. So I always say like a smaller assortment is better. Bringing in new things is important, whether that's you're just recycling things throughout the year and they're not really new, they're just something that you set aside and you've given it a reason to shine at this point in time. So that would be the seasonality aspect.
Speaker 2:
No, that makes sense. I want to pivot into more of like mindset and questions like that. I think entrepreneurs were in our head a lot on everything, and so I think mindset is crucial and it's up to man. I think especially early on I over looked like I just thought I could just grind everything out and work hard and everything would happen, and a lot of times it doesn't. You have to really analyze things and make adjustments. And so business clutter Can you just can you define business clutter and why it holds people back in their business?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, sure. So this was kind of like another big insight that I had early last year. I was watching I was watching that show on Netflix. You know, there's this big trend towards minimalism and decluttering that, like I think it was in January, so it was the time of year that all those shows were coming up in my queue and I was watching it and watching people bring all the junk out of their house and how they had this big, clean, white living room and they felt so much better and I just had this big aha moment like, oh, business owners need to do the same thing. We need to declutter our business. And so I break that down into three different kinds of categories. The first one is what I call the digital clutter, and that's really the time that you waste on social media or the again, like you're in going back to the inbox. We all sign up for lists and freebies and gurus and experts in e-commerce and they're experts at marketing. Their job is to create follow, to create that gap for us, and so what we do is, instead of going and actually doing work on our business, doing something that moves the needle, we get stuck in this cluttered place of oh well, maybe that guy has the answer, or maybe that program is what I need, or maybe if I just buy that, that's the missing piece. And so for me, that digital clutter is what's stopping a lot of people from actually making progress in their business and reaching their goals. So I always tell people or my clients just start by. Every time you get an email or you come across one of those social media posts, think about is this making me more productive, is this bringing me closer to what I want, or is this just making me feel bad and distracting me? If it is super easy to unsubscribe or to stop following and just get rid of that clutter, right? Digital clutter is the easiest to get rid of. So that's the first one. And then the second one goes back to what we were talking about with inventory, and that's the physical clutter. Do you have too much product in your store? Is that holding you back from your business being successful? Do you need to cut a bunch of skews? Do you need to run a big scale and just get rid of that stuff that's collecting dust on the shelf, and so that's also a really easy solution, but it's a nice framework for how to think about it. And then the last one I have is the mental clutter and that's really what you were getting at, which is the mindset. And that's the part where I hear all the time, well, I'm just not good at this, or, you know, I'm not cut out for it, or my spouse or my friend or this person told me I shouldn't do this or I shouldn't do that, and it's like, well, why are you giving yourself advisors who know nothing about business? You need to surround yourself with people who've been there, who know what they're doing. Listen to podcasts like this one, where you can get a real perspective of what it takes. And I think that part when you, when you address the mindset and realize that nobody knows how to do this, this is such a new industry. There's no, there's no textbook solution. This isn't accounting, this isn't, you know, maybe engineering. It isn't an industry where there's sort of a set way of doing it. We're all just making it up as we go along. So that part's really important is realizing that you shouldn't be self critical. You just need to be thoughtful about what choices you're making.
Speaker 2:
Those were like three really big things that I want to go back and like just highlight a little bit. So for the listeners, this is real talk, this is real stuff. So if you're just starting out, if you can get out in front of this stuff early, it will be very, very helpful. And so one of the you know things you said was digital clutter is like your inbox making sure you're not on a bunch of email lists that are going to get you sidetracked. So go and unsubscribe from those. I have to do that all the time. I'm all the time getting added to these email lists and I'm like shiny, I have shiny object syndrome. So I'm like, oh, what's this, what's this? And you're right, if it's not going to get me to my goals for that year, then it's a distraction. And so unsubscribing from those physical letter.
Speaker 3:
You have too many skews, you have too many, you know too much stuff going on, too many projects learning out some of that and then to admit that I think projects, too, is a really good part of that, where you know or even like, if you decide you're going to learn something this year, you can't learn Facebook ads, google ads and email marketing all in one year, like, pick one that that lights you up and that you think it's going to make a difference and go deep on that. It's better to go deep on one thing and really see a result, just kind of dabble here and there, because your money is going to disappear really fast that way.
Speaker 2:
Totally agree. Pick one that's going to get you the furthest and then just go go deep on that and become an expert. And then the last one you had mentioned was mental clarity, and you had said something that was very impactful to me early on is don't listen to family and friends who are not in the trenches in whatever you're in. If you're in e-commerce, you know your cousin Sally, who is, maybe you know, an accountant, and she's like, oh, you can't do this, you can't. You know, don't listen to someone that is not in the trenches and does not know what you're doing, because they're likely going to give you some bad advice and if there's negativity in your life, you also have to remove that. Like now, sometimes that's tough If it's friends or family members. Maybe even you know you can't remove them from your life, but maybe limit your discussions about your business or something like that, so they're not constantly pouring on you and so it takes a toll. But that you know what you had mentioned was crucial.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, I think it's about setting boundaries, because I get a lot of my clients will tell me like, oh, you know, I get told, oh, are you still doing that cute little hobby? Or oh, are you selling here? Let me check out your Etsy shop. And you know they don't take it seriously and this becomes our livelihood. This is our career, this is our job. We spend all of our time in it and when people sort of put it down or minimize it, that can be really hard psychologically and then also, like you said, like just giving advice that isn't relevant Again, it's another distraction. It's much better to surround yourself with people who can say, oh yeah, I've been there, this is how I address that problem, have you thought about this? And they can approach it from another business person's perspective. And so it's really important to surround yourself with those people early on. And if you don't have a network, then again just find those resources through podcasts, because you'll learn so much and you'll find your right community for what you're doing.
Speaker 2:
Definitely yeah. If you don't have a staple community, then definitely go find one somewhere. It will really really help. So, tina, before the show started, we were chatting and I mentioned to you that I enjoy talking to entrepreneurs that coach other entrepreneurs or have an agency where they're surrounded by a lot of clients, because they learn a lot. And so, before we get into the fire on, my last question for you is you've been coaching for a long time and so what are a couple of the top lessons learned that you see from your clients, like mistakes or trends or something like that, so you can share with the audience?
Speaker 3:
That's a great question. I think the biggest one is that there's probably nothing wrong with your product and nothing wrong with your website. I mean, I learned that a long time ago and, of course, then I thought it was great. It's actually that you're not spending enough time marketing, like it takes so much more traffic than we expect to be successful, so you need to bring a lot more people to your store. That would be the first one, and the second one is really understanding your customer avatar. You know, understanding who you're selling to and what problem you're solving for them is really important. And some people will say well, I'm, you know I'm selling candles. How am I solving a problem? Well, you are. They're looking for fragrance in their home, they're looking for a gift, they're looking for home decor item, and so it's understanding what those solutions are and then presenting your product in that way.
Speaker 2:
Those are. Those are excellent and and definitely if you're listening and you haven't started yet or you're early on, so pick up some, some excellent partners there. All right, tina, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you want to share with the audience?
Speaker 3:
Oh, that's a good question. I would say, you know, just remember that e-commerce is a really long journey and it truly is a roller coaster. So, like, celebrate those highs when you're there, when you have a great launch or when a product is really taking off, but then don't be too hard on yourself when things are going badly. It just means that you need to go find the answer, like you have to be resilient and you have to go look for answers. Sitting there and feeling sorry for yourself isn't going to get you where you want to go.
Speaker 2:
Excellent, excellent advice, awesome. So, tina, every guest we have on the show, we run them through the ringer. It's called the fire round. Are you ready? Yes, it's ready. All right, what is your favorite book?
Speaker 3:
So my favorite book is called Ogle V on advertising. It's a really old school advertising book but it's still an amazing resource for copy visuals and understanding the psychology of ads.
Speaker 2:
Excellent. What are your hobbies?
Speaker 3:
So I love. Recently started doing watercolor, so I've been diving into painting and then just like hanging with my boys I have two kids so like going for walks in the woods or going to the beach family time.
Speaker 2:
Awesome family stuff. I love it. What is one thing that you do not miss about working for the man?
Speaker 3:
Only picking one. That's hard, I mean. I think the biggest one is the meetings, right, constant meetings were kind of trying to keep your eyes open because you're like, didn't we just have this meeting yesterday and we're still not any closer to a resolution.
Speaker 2:
Meetings are a huge time waster Absolutely All right. Last one what do you think sets apart successful e-commerce entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail or never get started?
Speaker 3:
That's a good question. I think those that are lifelong learners like you have to be aware that this is always changing and you always have to be committed to learning new things and experimenting.
Speaker 2:
Well, cool. Now, if people want to get ahold of you, how would they? So? You have a website. How can they get ahold of you?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, sure, so they can find out more about me on my website, which is Tina Bar T-I-N-A-B-A-R dot com, and if you visit Tina Bar dot com slash podcast, I have an offer for your audience there.
Speaker 2:
I really appreciate that. Well cool. I want to thank you for being a guest on the show, Really appreciate your time and your experience sharing with the audience and look forward to staying in touch.
Speaker 3:
Thanks, it's been a pleasure. Great questions. I really appreciate this chat.