LWLS x Legally Madison: Straight Outta Law School

Welcome to another episode of the Ladies Who Law School Podcast!!!

On this episode, the ladies chat with Madison Botizan a first-year associate and recent graduate of OCU law. Madison shares how she ended up in law school and even when she knew she wanted to be a litigator.

The women talk about battling mental health issues and how law school stress and competition exacerbate the issues. She shares her top tip for current law students, give yourself some grace people! Perfection isn't real! Madison also shares how she found her current job with a #coldemail and she shares what makes a good writing sample to send along with that! Remember that hazing and fear-mongering is real in law school and you are NOT alone!!

Madison shares why she started coaching law students. She talks about how many of the things she heard in law school can transfer over to practice and we have to work to change things early!  Madison talks about what she hopes to bestow upon all the 1Ls she is currently coaching! Listen and learn some of the tips and tricks she hopes to bestow upon the young law students in this process.

If you are a law student and feel like school is kicking your butt. Madison can help! Feel alone and want someone you can trust whose been through the process. Madison is your girl and she will be a friend you can lean on!! Go HERE and use code LWLS  from today until 2/28 to get 20% off all services with Madison!!!

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xoxo stay safe and healthy,

The Ladies

Samantha & Haylie

@samanthalemke @ohh_hayls_yea

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Transcript

Ladies Who Law School LLC  0:13 
Hey guys, welcome back to ladies who Law School Podcast. I'm Sam. And I'm Haylie. And this week we have a fellow OCU alum Madison Botizan. She has a consulting website for all you law students out there, and we are so excited to share her story of being a recent law grad. Let's dive in.

Well, guys, please help me welcome our guest, Miss Madison Botizan of Legally Madison. Hey, Madison, how are you?

Madison  0:49  
Hey, gals. I'm good. How are y'all?

Ladies Who Law School LLC  0:51 
You know, we're hanging in there. It's usually the response. Right? So Madison, tell everybody a little bit about yourself?

Madison  1:00 
Well, I am a first year associate, I do plaintiffs civil litigation. I have only been out of law school, you know, not even a year. So still have that fresh? Yeah. That fresh feeling. Still traumatized from the bar exam. Oh, gosh. Yeah, I haven't gotten over that yet. But you know, born and raised here in Oklahoma City, and still here and don't plan on leaving.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  1:26 
Okay, that's awesome. So tell us? Well, we know of course, but tell everybody where you went to law school and why you decided to go to law school.

Madison  1:38 
So I went to Oklahoma City University. So just a year ahead of y'all. And I initially went to law school because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I took the LSAT in undergrad, because I wasn't sure what the next steps were. I have a degree in Public Relations. But I knew I didn't want to necessarily pursue a career in that field. And in undergrad, I worked in professional and collegiate sports and thought, Oh, I'll go to law school and be an agent. While I get to law school and realize all that is for the most part is negotiating contracts.You guys know this? That's boring to me, right? Like, I like doing the courtroom and like, I don't want to talk. So I was lucky enough one year to get into mock trial and do that. And it set me on the path to civil litigation where I am now.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  2:32 
I love that. So you said you know that you got your degree in Public Relations, and you worked in collegiate sports, and you thought you might be an agent? I feel like there's so many people that go to law school with that idea. And like entertainment law, whether it's, you know, sports agent, or you know, acting agent, right. So, what do you think it was? I know, you said mock trial, but whenever you were in law school, what was it that really, you know, sparked your interest in becoming a litigator? You know, how did you realize that there's a difference between transactional law and being a litigator? And, you know, was it a class or was it like you said, kind of mock trial anything else?

Madison  3:16 
I tell people, it was kind of this weird, cliche, almost movie like scene. In mock trial. We're at regionals in New Orleans, and we're in the civil courthouse in Orleans Parish. And I'm at first they of course, they make the one I'll go first.We were up against South Texas College of Law. Yeah. Our judge was, she was a Jag in the Air Force. So you know, like, super intimidating, full uniform. And I had to give our opening statement.I was terrified, like, I didn't sleep the night before. I was freaking out all morning. You know, couldn't eat. And y'all, I get to the podium.And it was the strangest feeling. I was like, completely at peace, like completely at ease. And I felt like, really, for the first time ever in my 23 years on earth at that point. Yeah. That I was where I was supposed to be. Yeah. And I was. It was like a switch that flipped for me. It was like you stepped into a box of like, Okay, it's time to shine. Yeah, yes. For real like, that sounds like a movie, but that's really how I felt in that moment. Yeah, no, I love that. I've heard many times people say, you know, stepping into the courtroom, their feet tingle or stepping into a classroom as a professor their feet tingle, right? Yeah. But I totally love that and validate that. That is a true feeling. Yeah. That's a great answer. Right. Like, that's when you knew I'm going to be Yeah, right. I want to be in the courtroom and so many people talk about in, you know, debate, transactional reasons litigation. What's more fun, what's more boring. What's this? What it really I think it comes down to what do you want?Yeah, what like gets you excited? Yeah, it's just, it's about how you feel like, Sure. Could I go and negotiate contracts? Sure. Yeah. Am I gonna feel fulfilled at the end of the day? Probably not. Yeah. I just felt like my talents are best served in a courtroom versus, you know, at a negotiation table. Right. So it's just about where you feel like you fit and will be fulfilled. Yeah. And just, you know, doing that trial work and being in the courtroom and stuff. It can change over time, too. Oh, maybe? Yeah, I think that that's another thing to think about.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  5:34 
So tell us what were some of like, your biggest accomplishments, and also your biggest struggles when you're in law school?

Madison  5:43 
Yeah. As far as the success thing, I mean, the kind of where I got a lot of validation, was in that Mock Trial world? I won best advocate at regionals. And, like, as a one Oh, I was like, Holy crap. Like, maybe there's something to this, right. You know, I had my fair share of A's and a minuses throughout PA school. But I never truly felt like those were necessarily accomplishments, like, I studied for them, like I you know what I mean, butas far as accomplishments, I think, really, as a human, like becoming myself and feeling so much like myself, and really just kind of coming into my full potential. Yeah. It wasn't necessarily about a grade in a class or landing a particular internship or, you know, being in a particular position. You know, so many people are really into like SBA or different organizations like that, wasn't it? For me? It was really, truly finding myself as cliche as that may seem. Yeah. As far as struggles go, I mean, I think I'm in the same camp as a lot of, of law students with, you know, the absolute trash mental health that so many of us go through six weeks into one a year, and I was having the worst time with contracts. And which is funny, because that's a lot of what I do now is contract litigation. But I remember like to weigh in, I mean, having a total meltdown. Yeah. And which ultimately led to a diagnosis of anxiety disorder and being put on medication. And having to navigate that throughout law school created a hurdle that I didn't see coming, right. And then I think a lot of law students don't see coming, especially if that's not something they dealt with prior to law school. Yeah.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  7:49  
No, absolutely. I mean, we preach mental health and mental health awareness. And just having that conversation as a first step. Always, yes, knowing that you're not alone. And that you don't have to make any rash decisions, at least five or whatever, right? Like, I think so many times, you walk out of a class, and you're like, I can't do this anymore. I can't do this anymore. I can't do this anymore. And the more you say that, the more you start to spiral. Yes. You know, I've cried many times in the law school bathroom, right? Oh, oh, absolutely. So I kind of feel like you describing coming into who you are, and understanding yourself, you know, you went from undergrad straight to law school, right? Yeah. And I think Do you feel like, in a sense, that mental health tie, kind of like kind of goes together with like, I don't want to say like growing up, but like figuring out who you are, like blossoming in a sense, and then comes with that, working on your mental health and figuring out who you are, it kind of ties together in my mind.

Madison  8:55  
It does, you know,you have to if you are somebody that struggles with mental health, you have to learn how to overcome that and, and deal with it in a healthy way in order to really become the best and most full version of yourself, right? Like, I still take medication, I still go to therapy, right? I still have a psychiatrist, I have to see twice a year. But that has, I have learned to overcome those obstacles, manage that anxiety, manage those depressive episodes and still perform for my clients and still provide the best resources for my students. And my friends and my husband. Yeah, you have it does tie together. It really does. Yeah.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  9:44 
So tell us a little bit more about finding yourself like, do you feel like you kind of I know, you always joke about the glow up and like different things, right.

Yeah. I mean, but I think there's something to that right. I think you do find you found yourself when you decided to go to law school and like for what every crazy reason, right? I'll do these things like, there was a bigger plan involved. So tell us about that.

Madison  10:06 
You know, you know, growing up in high school in undergrad, I was kind of, you know, too loud too much. Yeah, that, you know, the kind of stereotypical descriptors of an alpha female, right? You're just too much like Madison, you need to chill. Yeah. And in law school, obviously, you guys know, I'm still that way. But I got comfortable with that. Yeah. Because it led me to, you know, being able to have good connections with professors, being able to find a firm where I fit in as an associate, and, and be my most competent self, regardless of what people thought about me. Yeah, right. There was a moment in, in evidence, my two year where somebody was asked a hypothetical question about hearsay, and then got it wrong. And of course, you know, evidence is hard class, right? It is like it can be those rules are so dense. And me knowing the right answer in like, the middle of class turns around and goes, No, you're wrong. And started a whole debate. And it turned out I was right. And that's something that undergrad Madison would have never done. But I knew I was right. I was so convicted in that. And I was not going to say, just came out. Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna sit here and worry, you know, 65 of us waste two hours of class time it let's get this going. Yeah, like, what are we doing? You know, and that was a big, big part of showing myself I can be competent. I can, you know, speak up, speak up when I know the right answer. And it'll be fine. Yeah. And you won't be judged for it. If anything, it's what's needed? Right. I mean, yeah, I mean, well, and you know, people are still going to judge you. They're still gonna talk behind your back, you know, I mean, the world Yeah, right, totally. But you have to do it anyway. If you feel convicted, you have to do it, no matter what people are gonna say, people are always gonna talk, right? They're always gonna talk about you. Behind your back good or bad. Yeah. You have to just be confident in yourself, your abilities, and that you're doing the right thing.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  12:30 
No, absolutely. So you started Legally Madison, and you have your website and coaching and you have different people that you work with? So before we dive in all that, what would you say? Is your you know, top tip? For the current law student?

Madison  12:50 
Oh, yeah. If I had just one, yeah, if I had to tell all of you, law students, one thing, have some self compassion. And give yourself some grace. I think looking back, I didn't give myself enough compassion or enough grace, and I wanted so much to be perfect. And there were times where I was so frustrated with myself or, or didn't like myself. And that just led me to spiral. And, you know, we're not perfect, regardless of of what you may think you need to be as a law student or as a lawyer, nobody's perfect. And you have to give yourself, you know, compassion and grace. And know that you're going to graduate, you're going to pass the bar, you're going to become a lawyer and having that confidence.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  13:43  
 I think that's something that you know, and I were just talking with someone the other day about, how do you find that? You know, I mean, even as a three year old, I have struggled with that so much. Oh, I mean, I struggle with that everyday at work. Yeah. And, and then having the conversation about imposter syndrome, and how much that's just something you feel and like, you know, earlier when I was talking about crying in law school bathroom, yeah. You know, I think it's one of those things that, I mean, I genuinely remember walking out of the school, and Samantha being there, and our other friend, and they're literally the reason I didn't just get in my car and yeah, come back. Yeah. And so I just feel like sometimes, you know, maybe you don't have those people with you. And like we were talking earlier, you know, you're on Zoom, or your, you know, like a girl who we're talking to who's a two I'll just started going in person. Yeah, the first time like in a year and a half. Yeah. So it's just it sways, right like the confidence and like you're talking about in mental health and the depressive states. Yep. I think I've battled with that this entire law school experience. And having to just like figure out, am I I really like depressed. You know? Yeah. And what do I do about that? Yeah. And having conversations about it. Yep. And having people to lean on.

So with all that being said, obviously, who, like, tell us why you started Legally Madison, and then like, why you thought it was something that, you know, I feel like we've talked about it before and it, you know, pulled on your heartstrings. Yeah, do that. So, tell us about that.

Madison  15:30 
I think there was a multitude of reasons. It wasn't just like one thing. And, you know, looking back and thinking through that, this past week, I think kind of where it started, was being given some advice by various law school administration about how to go about, you know, finding an internship or studying or doing these things. And being like, Huh, no, no, right. Like, I'm an Enneagram. Six, I'm super skeptical. Okay. Like, I may be the only six in law school ever. But, you know, I was told like, it's a one l like, most of my students are what else? And so my once a year, I was told, Do not send cold emails to find an internship. lawyers get too many emails as it is, which is true, I get ungodly amounts of sales, right. But I'm like, oh, then how, how else am I supposed to? Because how am I supposed to meet people and get their attention when you said that? We can talk about that. And we can talk about that. And I'm like, well, but then the only way that I can get an internship if I don't do that OCI. Why don't the grades for those big law firms that do OCI so what am I supposed to do? Not work like?  Yeah. And I'm like, You know what, screw that. I'm doing it anyway. And within a month of me emailing two dozen female partners in Oklahoma City, I had an internship for that summer.Two dozen female partners.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  17:05 
I know that that's something that I like to hear. Oh, absolutely. So did you just do research on people in the area that you liked? Yeah. I mean, I felt like maybe you had could have. What did you think? Were you looking for mentorship? And

Madison  17:19 
I was that I was looking for. One, I knew I wanted to do civil litigation, right. And so then I looked at all these firms, like smaller firms. I like midsize and smaller firms that had at least a couple of female attorneys. Yeah. And then I just started sending emails, I sent an email like, Hey, this is my name. I'm really interested. I'm a 1L, I've attached my resume in a writing sample.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  17:50  
And what was your writing sample?

Madison  17:54 
My 1L trial brief. The writing sample I use, though, to get my my internship, which led to my associate position was actual briefing that I'd done in another internship.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  18:07 
Okay. That's the best. Yeah.

Madison  18:09 
Oh, absolutely. Real work product that gets filed and is seen by a judge hopefully, yeah. And, and, and so being told one thing, doing the opposite, because I don't listen to directions very well. I, I it just really made me think well, what else? Are we being told? That may not be the best thing for students as a whole or a student individually? Or that may be doing more harm than good? Yeah. Right. And like we're talking about the mental health thing. Law students and lawyers have such god awful mental health, whether they want to admit it or not.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  18:54 
Because of all the pressure that is put on students by law schools, for no reason whatsoever.

Madison  19:04 
Totally like, I mean, you know, students are told sacrifice everything, your grades are so important, you know, you should be putting law school before your significant other your personal life, your family, they're not giving sadly, mentality is that it's, it's not a good one. Yeah, it's what it is. And really, it got me to the point where I'm like, okay, so many students are suffering with mental health, which, which leads them to suffering with mental health as a lawyer, right, which furthers the statistics of high divorce rate, high substance abuse, high suicide, all that horrible stuff that affects lawyers. That starts in law school. And it's because law schools are putting unnecessary pressure on students to be the best of the best and creating this competition.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  19:59  
That's so unnecessary. We were just talking about that.

And we always say it's like a hazing culture. They just pin it against each other.

Madison  20:09 
Honestly, it is it really is. And for no reason. Yeah. Like, we're not competing against each other for jobs, or internships or the bar, or the bar, or the bar, you know, we can all pass. Yeah, at the same score, or whatever, right? Like, it doesn't even matter, you know, and that's the thing. It's like, you could be number one in your class, but if you don't pass the bar, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Right? No. And you know, the other thing too, that really bothers me being you know, I'm a plaintiff's attorney. And that is not necessarily a field where you have to be top of your class, right? Yeah. Right. The only two jobs out of law school, where your grades your class, right actually matter. Yeah, big law, and federal clerkships, right? Yes. That's such a small percentage of law students who will go into that profession. Where does that leave the rest of us? helpless, right. And that's just, it's just ridiculous. Ridiculous. And it just makes you wonder, like, what what do we do? And? I mean, I'm, I know you've heard something, it's a story about cold emailing.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  21:18 
So have you told any of your coaches or anybody do that in life? Yes. Has it worked for them?

Madison  21:26 
I mean, I tell them, right. And they're just now getting there. All right. Yeah. They're just now kind of at this point where like, OCI's are starting cold emails. cold emails have worked. They still work. Right. Absolutely.  I'm trying to tell them, you don't have to study 100 hours a week, you don't need an A, you don't even need a B. You just need a GPA high enough to graduate. You need to not want to kill yourself every day. Yeah, literally. And to be willing to study 300 plus hours to pass the bar. That's what you're willing to do. You could graduate dead last in your class. But if you pass the bar, somebody has given you a job. It's gonna happen. They're looking for him every day on LinkedIn. Are you a licensed attorney in good standing with the bar? Yes, yes or no? That's it? Yes. Yeah. They're not asking, Hey, where'd you graduate your class and like, hey, what was your GPA? Like, Hey, would you make a contract?

Ladies Who Law School LLC  22:42 
 I also think that law schools in general just need to stop scaring their students.

Madison  22:46 
Yes, it is fear mongering. Yeah, they just like want to scare you into everything. Like, you know, we talk to people who have taken the bar and like gone through law school and like, yeah, it can be horrible at times, but it's really not like the worst ever. It's nothing that can happen. Yeah, but law schools make it seem that way. And they make it seem like life or death. Yes. They builds in that fear in that competition. I think that's where they're all derived from toxic and I think it is that toxic culture transfers in to practice.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  23:17 
Yes, it 110% does, because also look at like, firms and how they're set up generally. And like how the same people who are toxic in law school end up at like, firms who are like, they still become lawyers to like, right, those people in your class that you're suddenly that you're like, you know, not gonna name names ever, but we all know it. Yeah. And I think it's just kind of like, oh, gosh, you know, you get across from them in the courtroom or you get an opportunity at a firm you just understand that they are just different types of cultures out there. Right. And I think it the people who laugh off mental health and law school are the people who are going to laugh off mental health and practice in it. They laugh off Oh, I don't have an alcohol problem I promise but they definitely are at the bar that's at the bottom of their law school building every day for happy hour after work instead of going home to their their spouse and kids Exactly. And dangerous 100% So what do you tell Okay, so he was like he said a lot of your coaches are one else so

Madison  24:23  
I just feel like as 3L's as a first year associate like I said this earlier I just like want to hug them and be like bless your heart.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  24:32 
Yeah, you know I love you do you mean anything? Like as really I feel like a mom yeah, train because you just feel like those times in one element where you just really felt scared Yeah, play imagine the approach like if they took an approach where they were more nurturing to the one else and like in the people nicer fee so love for me know, like, you know, guys, like we want you to work hard, but you don't have to like to literally cry yourself to sleep every night. Like no one actually knows what they're doing. And like, yeah, don't be so scared.

Madison  25:05 
And that's the thing I tell my tell my 1L's, right. And I would tell any law student ever. Truly, we're all in this together, like, as cliche High School Musical as that sounds like, truly you feel like this, everybody else in your class feels like it to whether they're willing to show it or not.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  25:25 
But also the people who like, take it by, you know, like, we support each other, right? And like finding the support to keep on going, like, you know, venting and like talking about it, right. And there's like, lots of people just don't talk about how they feel right on the inside they might be like, oh, like, I think I need to go work in big law, because they've never had one person. Tell them like, you don't have to know. But no, no, I imagine if like you started school during COVID. And like, you haven't talked to like anybody other than like, zoom. And then the one person telling you that is the law school. Yeah, I need to do OCI. Like you imagine, dude now. And now. And it was like you're saying this such a small percentage of jobs and less people that do that? Because like, it's just a small percentage of the profession. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, there's so many other jobs out there.

So, okay, tell us where you work in, like you said, you interned and then now you have your your first year associate.

Madison  26:23  
Yeah, so exciting. So my beginning of my third year, I kind of I knew at that point, I wanted to do plaintiffs work. I'd been a plaintiff's firm prior to that. And I'd been a defense firm prior to that. I knew I wanted to do plaintiffs work. I really liked the personal injury realm. And I'm not an ambulance chaser though. So for the record.

Although our office is located, right between two major hospitals, so we hear ambulances all the time. But anyway, that's not strategic at all. The cold emailing thing again, I had walked by this firm driven by this firm, honestly didn't even know what it was, like, Googled it. Yeah. And because you if guys came to our office, you'd be like, is this like an architecture firm? Like you guys do like interior design? Like, what is this is yes, typical. And I Googled it. And it's like plaintiffs work, like toxic torts and personal injury and insurance, bad faith. And I'm like, where's this been my whole life, you know? So I emailed Simone Fulmer, who's our founding partner, she's fantastic. And I was just like, I don't know, if you're looking for an intern. But like, here's some writing samples, like, let me know. Two hours later, I had a call from one of the partners wanting to interview me. Oh, wow. That's amazing. You're telling me I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. And I get there to the interview later that week and find out. They're not even hiring an intern. They just wanted to like, give me a chance because they were impressed by my writing samples. I was like, Oh, okay. I mean, sure. Well, by that next week, I had an internship. Yeah. And then, fast forward to February. That was August. Fast forward to February. I'm being offered an associate position.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  28:08 
Because you've been working there.

Madison  28:09 
Yeah. I've been doing good work. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so that's where I'm at. I'm the firm's filmer. So we do plaintiffs work, toxic torts, premises liability, car wrecks, insurance, bad faith. My caseload is premises liability and insurance, bad faith. And I frickin love it.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  28:30 
So when you were interning still, and you notice you didn't have your job offer yet? How did you approach them? Like, did you drop little seeds? Here? They're like, Yeah, I'm looking for a job or like, how did you approach that to waiting?

Madison  28:45 
I mean, there, there was a point, like, you know, I think was like, October, November, where it was, I was brought into a meeting and told like, there's a real possibility for you to get hired here. And so then I was just like, Okay, so like, continue to bust my ass. And then got the offer in February. Like, I was never like, Hey, I'm only going to intern here if you hire me, right? Like course. I just wanted the experience. And I knew that this was a very reputable, well known firm, and especially in like the toxic tort realm, and just wanted some experience more than anything and lucked out. Really. Yeah.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  29:26 
And it sounds like to me you really enjoy the work.

Madison  29:28 
Oh, so it just was like a perfect fit. It really was. And it was, I mean, it's almost an accident. Like yeah, I went there thinking I want to do personal injury, like more like traditional car wreck type stuff. And I ended up most of my cases is insurance, bad faith. And so I'm fighting insurance companies when they won't pay out on a policy right. And I didn't even know that existed before I worked here. Yeah. And that's most of what I do. And I I love it. It's so interesting. There's so much case law on it. It's such a battle. You know a case that I helped tribe last May had been up on appeal three times on Discovery issues related to what's relevant in this type of a case like so interesting right the kind of case that like makes it in your like civil procedure book Yeah, it's like Jeez Louise. Yeah. But it's just it's super interesting. Every day is different I can wear overalls to work like it's so chill. I love it.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  30:31 
Okay, so as a first year associate how many trials have you done?

Madison  30:34 
So I did one in May that was a bad faith case and then I assisted on a personal injury motor vehicle pedestrian case in August and then another car wreck case the end of February and then a bad faith case in March so so you're gonna be rack I've gotten first year like far more trial experienced and like any first year associate ever Yeah. Feels like it for real, like outside of you know, people that are in like a DA and the PDS like the criminal realm, right. Yeah. No other civil firm is letting what else or you know, 3L's or first year associates? Yeah. Help with trials. They're like, No, get away from this. We don't want you to ruin it, you know? Yeah. But it obviously shows.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  31:23 
First off, I want to say don't cold email who because like, I'm like, really still shocked about that comment. I'm like, terrible sitting here and thinking who could have said that? Zipit. No more. Don't say that. Yeah, maybe it's the lady who didn't give me my resume for three months. But that's just I don't know. I definitely.

I definitely think that trial experience in like you talking about wanting to be a litigator? If you really, you were intentional with it. Yeah. I've been told so many times to be intentional with your various jobs. Figure out what you want. And you knew that you wanted to be a litigator, and you knew you want to be in the courtroom. Yeah. And I'm kind of having this issue right now is like, what kind of law I love, and I really want to do, but it doesn't really get me in the courtroom. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of just navigating that. Yeah. And what I'm going to do is my life after law school, right, and where you're going to go with it? And I, I definitely think that, you know, being a litigator and doing personal injury, and just torts Yeah. Right. Like is something that you can show you so much.

Madison  32:29 
Oh, absolutely. You have skill set that 10, 15, 20 years down the road, you can take and go and do anything. Yeah, you're just gonna always be thinking about that's, that's negligence.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  32:42 
Like, when I was watching Harry Potter, I was telling her I was like, this would not fly.  This would be lawsuits. That's it.

Madison  32:50  
And isn't that the bad like law school and being a lawyer just makes you so jaded.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  32:54 
You're like, like, you can't even watch TV cuz you're like, that's illegal. Yeah. That's, they shouldn't be doing that. Yeah. Like, no. It makes you like nervous. Like, yeah. Like, don't talk literally, yes.

Madison  33:08 
Oh, the temptation to roll my window down and yell, ask for a lawyer at anybody that gets pulled over is so real. I believe it. I totally do.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  33:19 
You know, you just work. I've heard it time and time again. When you go to law school, you become a lawyer. And you go out and you work no matter what you do. You don't unlearn and you don't train your mind. Like as your what else I'm sure I'm telling this to all our what else out there and people who are going to be one else here in the next few years, you are going to feel pain and growth. And it's just going to be uncomfortable. But then you're going to look up and you're going to be a 3L and you're going to be a first year associate and you'll be like, Wow, I don't know how I got here. But I think totally different. I'm a totally honestly different person. And, you know, it's kind of beautiful. In a sense. It really is. Yeah, you become that caterpillar to the butterfly. Yes. So I'm super excited that you're doing your program and so many people.

Madison  34:10 
 Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I definitely. I'm trying to be the person that I wish I had as a one out, right. Yeah, I'm a first generation lawyer. I had absolutely no clue what I was getting into. Not at all. And so there's more and more first generation lawyers, first generation college students that yeah, that are pursuing law. And law schools aren't giving them enough and what they really need and I'm trying to like, hold them up, and make sure they know what they're worth and that they can get through this and be a badass lawyer regardless of what anybody tells them.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  34:49 
So if anyone listening wants you to be their coach, where can they find you?

Madison  34:56 
 You can check out my Instagram @Legally_Madison or my Website, MadisonBotizan.com.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  35:02 
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Madison  35:05 
Thanks, gals. Thank you.

Ladies Who Law School LLC  35:08 
Whoever said to not send cold emails in order to get a job, what? Yeah, I don't know who you are. And we never figured out who you were after the interview. But this is specifically towards you. Please stop saying that to law students, because I swear, everyone I know that has gotten a job that they love is literally from like, just showing up and like presenting yourself or cold emailing or cold calling.

So just I thought that was an important, you know, little anecdote. You're like, it's so important. It's the first thing I'm thinking about?

No, absolutely. I totally agree with you, Samantha. And also, we learned so much from Madison, I know, I really enjoyed just her transparency about mental health, and what she's struggled with and how she's gone to counseling and how she takes medication, because I am right there with her. And I see a lot of myself in her and the too loud and too argumentative as a young woman. And it's just exciting to see that there is a career path where we can take all those attributes and really use them to make money and be successful, and advocate for our clients. I think some of us who are have been told that we were too loud. I think that that makes us some of the best advocates for our clients, because we truly care about them and are willing to lay it all out there. So you know, if you are in law school and you're feeling down, you're not alone. If you're feeling nervous and stressed and you have imposter syndrome, you're not alone. And we hope that this episode just really painted that picture.

And if you want to talk to Madison, or get some insight on what she does go to her website, it's MadisonBotizan.com. And she has all of her consulting packages on there. And she's a great resource, so definitely take advantage of it. 

Absolutely you guys. She also has a few photos or she just have like Elle Woods, and she did some like recreations and they're absolutely fabulous. So make sure and follow her on Instagram and check those out. We love Madison and we are so happy to have her on the podcast. As always guys, you can find us on Instagram as well. DM us, if you have any topic ideas or questions you want to throw our way. You can also email us. And as always like us on facebook and join our Facebook group. We say it every episode, but we really mean it. There are so many good conversations going on in the Facebook group about LSAT so much about LSAT. So many of you guys are pre law students. And, you know, that's also why we wanted to bring Madison on so that we could talk about and really help you guys understand what you can expect when you go to law school. 

And also don't forget, we did drop new merch. So check that out and let us know what you guys think. And if you ever have ideas for cute merge, like always send them our way because we are kind of obsessed with making it. So if you send it to us, we will make it Yeah, seriously the tortfeasor getting tortfeasor We're going to court that was a OG listener and follow our Instagram idea. So you never know you might be seeing some of your ideas on our merch. Just let us know what they are.

And on that note, stay healthy. Stay safe. Wash your hands. And yeah, we'll talk to you next time. Bye guys.