Young Horse Development & Age-Appropriate Training

This next podcast is dedicated to young horse development and training. This time I’m going to dive in deeper, simplify some complex areas and give you a clear idea about age appropriate education, handling and training – areas that are important to young horse development, such as emotional fitness, confidence and safety. 

I’ve done two podcasts on this subject already, back in 2020, that cover a lot of common questions, concerns and advice. You can listen here:

Starting Young Horses, Part I How & When (Developing Good Habits) https://www.buzzsprout.com/815860/episodes/5349703 

Starting Young Horses, Part II: How to Begin Your Horse's Education & How to Problem-solve https://www.buzzsprout.com/815860/episodes/5370628 

“You have to grow from the inside out. None can teach you, none can make you spiritual. There is no other teacher but your own soul.” - Swami Vivekananda

May you always be one with your horse,
 Caroline

Transcript

Caroline Beste (1m 4s):
You are listening to Everything Horses & More! Podcast with me. your host, Caroline Beste. I'm the founder of my Tao of Horsemanship method, a pioneer in horse training and development and a true advocate of the horse. I bring an intuitive and educated eye along with an experienced and intelligent perspective to understanding both Horse and human nature and behavior. My experience in skill sets are the cornerstone to my worldwide success in training methodology. My experience with horses as intelligent sentient beings is what inspired me to create my highly acclaimed and proven training method. consensual partnership training for Horses and humans.

Caroline Beste (1m 44s):
A model I pioneered in 2008. Consensual partnership training provides a comprehensive and impressive curriculum teaching horse owners how to fully develop their horses using a holistic, empathetic, and natural process. My training system teaches you how to achieve true partnership with horses and without the use of pain, excessive pressure, dominance, force or coercion In. Addition to being a world class trainer for both horses and people. I'm an artist, author, entrepreneur, Speaker radio show host, licensed working equitation trainer and riding foundation specialist. I offer one of the largest and most comprehensive online educational platforms, the do of horsemanship, where I host a variety of courses produced and personally taught by me and my amazing school masters In.

Caroline Beste (2m 36s):
addition to sharing what I know in my in person training and online courses, I invite special guests and students each month to my radio show, Everything, Horses and more podcast. This platform allows us to engage with all of you and share our very personal and transformational journey with horses. I invite you to listen in and hope you find something that helps inspire you to reach your personal goals and aspirations with your Horse. Thank you. And may you always be one with horses.

Caroline Beste (3m 26s):
Welcome back everybody. You know who I am, Caroline Beste of the Tao of Horsemanship. I am your host and I have a lovely co-host for today. Emily Feely. Say hi, Emily.

Emily F. (3m 39s):
Hi guys.

Caroline Beste (3m 41s):
Yeah. Yay. Emily subbing for Lydia for today. And you guys have seen Emily before, whether she's been in, you know, in the comments area or helping out with web classes and things like that. So welcome back Emily. She's one of my students. Yeah. And so real quick today, this is a, a really very powerful podcast, most specifically because it's about starting developing Young Horses Young Horse Development and age Appropriate Training. At the end of this podcast, Emily and I are gonna talk about her newest edition at her farm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Emily F. (4m 23s):
Mr. Coco.

Caroline Beste (4m 25s):
Mr. Coco. So you just adopted him real quick. You just adopted him from a local rescue. He was wild. He's seven years old. He was wild. Mustang. What I'm thinking of his bloodlines. He has what bloodline in him? The Sulf, the tiger.

Emily F. (4m 43s):
The sulfur.

Caroline Beste (4m 45s):
Sulfur.

Emily F. (4m 46s):
Not the the sulfur her. Yeah, that comes out Utah. In Texas.

Caroline Beste (4m 52s):
Okay, cool. Yeah. So we're gonna talk a little bit about him cuz he's in a very interesting story and he's seven and he is been passed around from trainer to trainer and he is a mess.

Emily F. (5m 7s):
Yes, yes. I'm excited too. He is. Put everybody in on him at the end.

Caroline Beste (5m 12s):
Yeah. Mess. Yeah. So stay tuned, we're gonna talk about it. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah, great. And then you can, you know, give everyone a Facebook page where you're gonna be chronic, chronic doing a journaling or, you know, video of his progress.

Emily F. (5m 34s):
Yeah. So we setting up the True connection Horse farm and training YouTube page, that's the name of our farm. And so we'll be pushing that out at some point so everybody can go follow along there and we'll be working with you. So it'll be pretty cool to watch his journey.

Caroline Beste (5m 51s):
Yeah, that'll, that's gonna be great. And he just came last Friday, I was there waiting for you guys, so yeah, it's gonna be good. Yeah. Okay. We're very excited. Sorry. Yeah, I am too. I, it's, it's always exciting and, and absolutely beautiful to be able to help. Hi, Becky hie. Hi ladies to help Horses, period. And he's, this is just exciting. So I'm ex I'm excited and honored to be a part of the journey. All right, you guys. So let's get back to today's hot topic. So I did two Podcasts about Starting, Young Horses, part one and part two.

Caroline Beste (6m 34s):
My gosh, back in 2020, literally this time, three years ago, I think it was in March, three years ago. And you can find those two episodes either on Buzz Sprout or any other directory, specifically Apple Podcasts. It's a pretty big one and most common. So if you go to Apple and type in Everything Horses and more, I'll come up and then you can find Starting Young Horses part one and Starting Young Horses part two. So I wanted to circle back and talk more about this because just there's so much to talk about and I, you know, get emails.

Caroline Beste (7m 14s):
I was telling Emily before we went live, most of my emails are either about traumatized riding Horses or Starting Young Horses. Either the young Horse has come to them with challenges from previous handling and, and bad experiences, or they, they don't wanna mess it up. And so it's a really hot topic. So I'm gonna dive in deeper and try and simplify some complex areas and give you a clear idea about, I think age appropriate is a key word here. age appropriate education or training. When do you do what and, and why, and for how long?

Caroline Beste (7m 59s):
So I'm gonna begin with, I cannot emphasize enough about keeping the curiosity in your young Horse. So curiosity means confidence. The opposite of curiosity is fear is plain and simple. So just, I'm coming from a a my mindset is a professional and assessing, evaluating Horses before I work with them, you know, this is it. It's like there's, we start right there with any Horse. And in baby Horses, like any baby mammal, human puppy, kitten, you name it, we're all mammals. They are born curious until the curiosity gets taken away from them through a bad or negative experience.

Caroline Beste (8m 44s):
And so learning is kind of like the balance of love and leadership working with, with Horses or developing or raising children or raising Horses or restarting Horses. There's always this balance of love and leadership and, and it, it's so flexible and adaptable at, at any time. I mean, you're always with unconditional love, but where's that leadership and how much of it needs to come into play at what, what times? And so it's no different with balancing curiosity, allowing it, nurturing it, but also at the same time, let's say curiosity is love. And then you being a leader coming in saying, okay, I need to put some boundaries on this, or I need to shape this a little bit, or redirect it or guide that curiosity or just allow it and understand that at this age, this is how it needs to be.

Caroline Beste (9m 40s):
And as the Horse matures into the work that we're gonna talk about into its education, it will naturally, you know, it'll always be curious, but that, that level of curiosity that makes that youngster gotta check everything out and spend a long time, you know, dwelling on that, that curiosity that, you know, obviously it goes away because of the horse. Like any maturing, you know, highly social, social and intelligent mammal, it just goes away naturally. So we're gonna talk about how long does it last normally? And, and you know, at what ages do you start doing what with the Horse?

Caroline Beste (10m 23s):
So curiosity means confidence, plain and simple. And we, we all have been around Horses or have Horses, we know what it's like when they're not curious, right? They're petrified, they're fearful, they're anxious. I think the biggest aha I wanna drive with curiosity is recognizing curiosity. And unfortunate, unfortunately in most of our Horses, it's been knocked out of them. They're not allowed to be curious. And so, you know, and I say knocked out of them, you know, we just, we manhandle 'em, we get on their case, we, we, you know, we don't allow it. And the Horse eventually shuts down and goes into some level of learned helplessness because it doesn't know how else to function with without being controlled by us, you know, managed by us.

Caroline Beste (11m 13s):
And so curiosity, literally, you know, the, the best way I can help people understand how it shows up in a young Horse, if you're not used to seeing it or you don't understand it. Cuz believe me, I get all these emails and these comments and questions on my YouTube channel or Facebook, my platforms, it's like, well, how do I know when too much is too much? Or I've been told that it's disrespectful or I've been told that, you know, my Horse is being disobedient because it it, it won't focus on me and it it drags me to such and such, or it constantly wants to get into everything. So the best examples to help with measuring this is do you have children?

Caroline Beste (11m 55s):
Do you have, have you ever raised a puppy? How about even a little kitten? So we'll just start there because developing Young Horses is no different than developing children and some, and, and it's that complicated, okay? It's more complicated than raising a puppy because literally by the age of two puppies kind of grow up and kittens are the same way by the age of two, all of a sudden all that crazy kitten, you know, running around and, and what do we call it with dogs? I used to call it the happy dog dance, but they're zoom, the Zoomies, the zoom, they're zooming, yeah, kitten zoom too. So that really, it like dies when stops when they hit two, not a young Horse.

Caroline Beste (12m 37s):
And those zoomies and that happy Horse can last well into adulthood after the age of 10. And, and that is a beautiful thing to preserve and nurture. You just have to know how to guide it. Again, what's age appropriate. And so if you've had children or dogs, especially, you know, my question to you is what was it like raising the puppy? You know, did you have a healthy level of discipline, you know, boundaries with a lot of positive reward and conditioning and a and a healthy way? And same for your kids. You know, use your, your inside voice inside your outside voice, outside meaning you don't scream in a restaurant, you don't, you wanna teach your kids not to, you know, scream and, and roughhouse at the dinner table.

Caroline Beste (13m 25s):
You know, there's certain things that are appropriate. And so just to set the mindset right now, you're gonna think the same way about Horses. You're just, if you've had kids and you, and you feel confident about the way you've raised your children, same with dogs, then Horses, it's gonna be no different, you guys, especially comparing it to children. So the opposite is true. If you've got, you know, dogs that run all over you and have no manners and and are not disciplined and you know, just run all over you, it's gonna be a lot harder for you to develop a young Horse, especially the size and the amount of energy that a young Horse has compared to a small young dog or even a lab, even a hundred to 150 pound dog, you know, now we're talking about, you know, 3, 500, 700, 800,000, 1200 pound Horse.

Caroline Beste (14m 18s):
So, so just keep that in perspective and it's not a criticism, it's not a judgment, it's an understanding. So a lot of people wanna raise these Young Horses and when I got back into Horses, I was living on the eastern shore living in, on the eastern shore of Maryland. So I was 45 minutes from Aite Island in Chin Island. And I, you know, was very familiar with the, the pony roundups and the chin ponies and the, the wild feral chin ponies. And so when I got back into Horses, not only was I working with as many local rescues as as possible to learn as much as I could and to, to help, I also started my name, got around and I started acquiring a lot of wild, I'll say feral cik ponies that people had bought at Roundup as babies, as Weanlings, cuz they're always thinning out the herd every year.

Caroline Beste (15m 9s):
That's what the July roundup is for. And they didn't realize that they just kept these, these ponies in their backyard like dogs and they put 'em in a shed for a shelter or an old chicken coop. Lots of chicken, chicken farms in Maryland. You guys aren't familiar with Purdue chicken. So long story short, you know, I'd get the call that here's this two, three, four year old Chi Tik Stallion or even Philly mayor and had, was just rogue. Like now it's coming after their kids, it's running them down, it's, it's got no manners, of course it's jumping on top of them like a dog.

Caroline Beste (15m 50s):
And so I would rescue these Horses, I would take them and then I'd rehabilitate them and give them the foundation and then connect them with a student of mine. Cuz I don't sell Horses. I usually only would not usually I would only sell to students of mine. So you guys kind of get an idea of where I'm headed with all of this. So if you're, if a new baby is, is new to you versus having an older Horse your whole life, you've gotta think like this. And so this is where we're, what we're gonna focus on today in this particular podcast. And of course Emily's here if there's any questions just let Emma know or just write it down in the comments.

Caroline Beste (16m 33s):
So getting back to curiosity means confidence, plain and simple. And the lack of it means fear and which means they're gonna have issues learning and becoming confident. And again, this is absolute stuff. If your Horse has fear, it is not a confident learner. And one of the biggest problems with Horse training in general is you're not being taught this specific topic. Meaning if your Horse has issues, challenges, trauma, fear, they are not open to learning, they are not confident learners.

Caroline Beste (17m 14s):
If you don't have a confident learner, you cannot teach. And the problem with most Horse training is it becomes very mechanical because either one, the professional trainers don't understand this, or two, it's basically a hsa. Guys smoke and mirrors, let me get you in the door for a quick fix. Even if it's mechanical and we create this opera conditioning positive and negative pressure and release conditioning to your Horse, you think it's fixing it? Cuz eventually the Horse is gonna give and it's gonna do it mechanically. But you haven't fixed the problem, you haven't fixed the cause, the root of the problem.

Caroline Beste (17m 55s):
And so it's a quick fix and you just have to come into it going, wow, my Horse has problems, I have problems with my Horse because my Horse has problems. Bottom root causes, they have fear, okay, just fear. And anytime we have fear, Horses have fear, we're defensive and we cannot learn. So we've gotta understand Horse, is your baby curious or your Horse curious or or are they, and that means they're open to learning and exploring and experiencing or, or are they shut down and closed and reserved. So this brings us to the next big topic thresholds. So this is understanding a horse's threshold or your baby Horse.

Caroline Beste (18m 37s):
And a lot of us get these Young Horses as weanlings or yearlings or two-year-olds. They've already had experiences you guys, the minute we take them away from their mother, we damaged them. I did a podcast years ago on the science behind the stress that young weanlings, when they get weaned, the stress that they go through and the, I think it was Tufts University, one of the major universities did this research in 98% of Weanlings have ulcers because they are so stressed out being taken away from their mothers at such a young age. And when you understand, you know, naturally how Horses are in the wild and raise they're young, you know, they're allowed, the young are allowed to suckle for up to two years.

Caroline Beste (19m 24s):
So they get all of their social grooming and bonds and all of the nutrients and immune system, I mean everything they need it is right there. And they need that two years to get everything that they need to learn how to socialize, to learn how to form deep bonds and relationships and feel safe and secure. They get all the proper nutrients from the mother. And so here we are taking these babies at five, six months old and they're not getting what they need and we throw them by themselves or in with an older Horse. That's a bad role model and it starts right there. And so we already know that 98% of these young weanlings have ulcers, they are stressed.

Caroline Beste (20m 9s):
So there you go. We wanna rape you two years old. Yeah. Yep, exactly. And so you know your job when you get these babies, cuz it's really hard to change equine industry's mindset about this. Oh my god. Because it's all about making money. Nobody wants to keep these youngsters around that are gonna cost them money. Money. So you just have to keep in mind that if your baby comes to you, you're weanling or your young, you know, older young Horse comes to you and they don't have curiosity, where do you start? You start with bonding and you start with creating that relationship and giving them what they're missing, what they're lacking, what they need.

Caroline Beste (20m 52s):
So getting back to the threshold. So again, recognizing thresholds is critical to any horse's learning and confidence period. This is the number one area that gets overlooked, misinformed, misunderstood. And why most of our adult Horses have issues. We are not taught to pay attention, respect, honor, understand, recognize our Horses thresholds. And so a threshold is emotional, mental, and physical examples are anything that pushes you outta your comfort is a threshold.

Caroline Beste (21m 34s):
And that can be a mental thought, it can be an emotional feeling and it can be a geographical or physical experience. So I like to use an obvious one. How many people can, you know, are comfortable speaking in front of other people, large audiences? Let's use that as a really easy example. So that's a mental, emotional and physical threshold. You know, you're out in front of a lot of people and a big room, that's the physical threshold. The mental is your own self-criticism, confidence or lack of, and then what it triggers emotionally, your self-esteem, lack of confidence, criticism, you name it.

Caroline Beste (22m 17s):
And so Horses are no different. If you revere the Horse like we do as sentient beings that have complex emotions, they are equivalent to us. Science keeps developing and supporting everything I've been teaching for the last 15 plus years, including that an adult Horse at the age of 10 has the mindset in emotions of, you know, a 10 year old human, maybe seven to 10 years old, a young kid. So anyway, you've gotta understand thresholds and, and that's just paying attention. Does my Horse have curiosity or not?

Caroline Beste (23m 1s):
So if you have a young Horse that's been improperly started and handled and has negative experiences and they also learn from each other, remember you could, you could go buy a two-year-old un you know, not wild or feral, but untouched Horse meaning they've been out and they have a couple of them here in Florida, and I've dealt with this too, where, oh yeah, it's a big breeding farm, whether it's thoroughbred or gated Horses, there's a big gated farm. I had quite a few clients down here for a while in Ocala. It was just really hard, you know, it was a lot of older ladies older than me by 10, 15, 20 years getting sold these gated Horses because of their back issues.

Caroline Beste (23m 49s):
And they had run these Horses into the ground, so they were extremely submissive and frozen and shut down and they didn't realize it until they started getting love. And then their, and then the Horse comes out of its shell and ends up hurting. And so it was a big community down here. And the point I'm making is this one PAs aino farm that was selling all of these Horses to this, this older audience of women and men. They also had a breeding farm and so on four acres there were these untouched, two-year-olds, three-year-olds, like they, they'd be dragged in for shots and trims and that was, and then fed and it was crazy.

Caroline Beste (24m 32s):
I mean they were practically, they were wild you guys. And so that experience isn't healthy either, you know? And a lot of people are, oh I'm gonna get this fresh young untainted Horse that's been out, you know, and on a, you know, a hundred acres with, with 20 other Young Horses. And, and it has, it does not have a positive experience because it's lived in that environment. And that environment has been, you know, look at it, you know, it's the other Horses are fearful, you know, the, these young babies are used need to be raised by positive role models, you know, so that they have positive experiences. So if the mother or the other herd members are afraid of people, then that's what the baby's gonna learn through association to be afraid of people.

Caroline Beste (25m 15s):
It's that pure and simple. And so again, you know, can you go into a herd of Horses? I don't care what age and are they relaxed around you? Are they curious? Do they come up to you and wanna touch you and connect with you? It that's, wow if you got that, it's, everything else is gonna be pretty good, okay? Because right there the Horse does not fear humans. It is still curious and definitely wants to connect with you. So that's a plus something else to think about. So let's get, I wrote down a couple of core principles here and em, how are we doing? Any questions?

Emily F. (25m 55s):
Good, no questions. Good. Everybody's saying hi and okay, Chris Siemens did say thank you for sharing this information. So she's excited about,

Caroline Beste (26m 5s):
Oh you're welcome. You're welcome. Okay, sorry, I'm meeting him. Becky, what am I eating? Okay guys, hold on. My favorite candy Pez, my little sugar boost instead of coffee, first four core principles to developing Horses training, Horses or retraining Horses. So this is any age four, gotta have relationship. That's first thing, relationship before training. Okay, A strong relationship creates trust, period.

Caroline Beste (26m 46s):
Relationship before training. And this goes for babies too. Number two, for core principles to developing training or retraining Horses consistency. Consistency builds good Habits. Consistency is what teaches and educates. There's a huge difference between doing something once or twice and making it happen through fear, through opera conditioning, pressure and release positive and negative. And that's what most Horse training is teaching still to this day. Even natural Horsemanship, even some methods of positive gentle Horsemanship are still using this mechanical archaic approach, okay?

Caroline Beste (27m 33s):
Where there's no consistency, it is food rewards only. So the food, the Horse is always looking for treat reward. That's what's motivating them to do what you want. But it's not teaching. Teaching and educating. You have to have consistency and repetition until the mental and and muscle memory is created. And when mental and muscle memory is created, it's what? Second nature it's done. You remember it, it's there. So two is consistency. Number three is repetition. Repetition creates education. Without it, your Horse isn't learning.

Caroline Beste (28m 15s):
So consistency is you show up the same all the time. You ask the same all the time, you reinforce the same, you reward the same repetition's right behind it. So don't move on to teaching your Horse, your young Horse, anything new until they already know it. So many people are so quick to move on. I, I think one of my biggest pet peeves is my Horse is bored. There is no such thing as your Horse is bored. If they are bored, one, they're either young and that's normal. They're, you know, their their their mind is everywhere.

Caroline Beste (28m 56s):
So you gotta work with that until it matures and it's ready to handle more structure. We're gonna talk a little bit about that or maybe what you're doing your Horse isn't interested in and it doesn't have a, a sense of focus or discipline up in mind. It's just like why we send our kids to school, gives 'em structure, teaches them a level of discipline so that their mind can be guided just like a Horse into discipline, into focus. And then the fourth is reward. It builds motivation to please you and make also makes the experience positive.

Caroline Beste (29m 38s):
So let's get back to a horse's hierarchy of needs. And this is babies too. They're Horses first hierarchy of need is feeling safe. Second hierarchy of need is feeling comfortable. Now this is where I'm going to go against the general consensus. Third hierarchy is a need food. When those three basic needs are met, the fourth will be play or rest. Now a lot of people, especially natural Horsemanship say, oh no, it's safety, comfort play and then food. And I'm like, sorry guys, you idiot.

Caroline Beste (30m 18s):
Seriously, I've not met one damaged Horse that I've worked with. I've not met one damaged Horse that I've worked with that would play if their basic or rest or lie down at night when no one was around. If those three basic needs were not met, it makes sense you guys. If a Horse is constantly hungry and worried about food and anxious, they short as shit are not gonna wanna play with you. So we've gotta meet those basic needs and then the first two get complicated, meaning safety for a Horse has so much to do with relationships, forming deep bonds and having a socialization with you or with other herd members that that contribute to that bonding and that community.

Caroline Beste (31m 17s):
And that's where we understand how much Horses wanna please and work together. And so the motivation in my work in what I teach is the relationship. I know damn well my Horses will do anything I ask anytime, even when it's feeding time because it feels so good to them when they're with me. Emily, you guys know one of my students, Becky Matte, you're, you guys have all experienced this with your own Horses following my method. And so this is is real. Yeah.

Emily F. (31m 52s):
One thing I just wanted to add just to sort of enforcing the hierarchy of needs that you follow, Caroline is when we got cocoa we were told food will not motivate him. You know? Yes. We can't use it and you know, we don't do tree training or any of that as we know. However, the first day we had him and he won't come to us right now, he's very scared, standoffish. I was bringing in his alfalfa in the wagons behind me and I turned around, he's right behind me and as soon as I moved he backed up. But I was like, oh okay. And so we've been using that to show him he can trust us and we're safe and we bring his bucket, we step back in stand. But he definitely will do anything or come to us or closer to us for his food.

Emily F. (32m 36s):
Yes. So I just enforcing that. Yes it is, they're definitely food before

Caroline Beste (32m 42s):
Most ever. Yes. Yeah. I mean well it's a basic need. Yeah. Look at what they do in the wild. They travel up to 20 miles for food, okay? And water. So that's a basic instinct for Horses and like you just said, I mean you know him, you being able to, and this is important us all of us being able, especially the young baby Horses and their growth spurts. Yeah, that's a huge problem with Young Horses and why so many Young Horses have food anxieties and aggression around food is because that they're telling you they're they're hungry. So you can't just go by the stupid normal practices of feed 'em so many flakes of hay a day and that's it, you know, or so many pounds of feed and that's it.

Caroline Beste (33m 27s):
They're used to constantly grazing and having something in their system. So you have to figure that out. And then Young Horses like blue, like Zor, when you came to me at four, you know, they're, they're growing, they are big Horses and they need to be fed significantly more than your average Horse. And, and so for Coco, you know, who knows what happened to him when he was first introduced to training and sent away, I think at the age of two she got him at the rescue and he had already had training and was messed up. So you know, we've gotta work with that basic instinct just like I did with the wild, the really truly wild Horse that came to me.

Caroline Beste (34m 10s):
Little Orlando that's still here a couple of years ago. It'll be what, three years I think? Three years? I think so two or three years, I think three years, I can't remember. But you know, I had to work with that basic need and make that basic need of food that actually became kind of hierarchy number one. And make sure that when I gave him the food that I presented safety and comfort and I did because around Penn was in the middle of my training field. That's where it is. And all my Horses were allowed to help create that feeling of safety community cuz they do feel safe in numbers by instinct. So I worked all those things together and yeah, and that's just beautiful.

Caroline Beste (34m 50s):
Thank you for that. So we have the four core principles to my understanding, experience and method working with horses. And now we're gonna talk about Young, Horse, Development. There's four core principles too. They're very similar. Well one is, okay, so this is important guys. So relationships, number one, relationship before training. So really work on that bond. And like Coco won't, does not wanna be touched, does not come to you. So we know, we know for a fact that Horses the hi, you know, the highest form of bonding, which is number one for Horses, having that emotional connection is number one for them.

Caroline Beste (35m 33s):
That's their sense of security. Not just the herd, you know, being in large numbers that that's true too, but emotionally it's having that connection and that bonding. But touch and grooming is what helps to create and nurture bonds. So if you guys have Horses or baby that doesn't wanna be touched, like my little blue, when he came to me at eight months old, he had no socialization by his mother. She was very unhealthy, very messed up. So she didn't teach him any socialization with the other mares or babies. She wouldn't let him go near them. She'd run them off. Yet she wouldn't groom him or bond with him. Now she did allow him to suckle, but she was a nervous, anxious, stressed out Horse that was constantly pacing.

Caroline Beste (36m 20s):
And so she didn't crib, but Blue was cribbing to compensate for that level of release anxiety. And he needed a release, he learned to crib. He might have learned from another Horse there too. So he came to me cribbing full of ulcers, you know, he still had worms, which a lot of babies will have worms. You gotta really keep on top of that. And he was food aggressive, he was underweight so really bad. So you and he didn't know how to groom, you know, didn't know how to eat with other Horses without like going nuts over his food. He kicked levy in the forehead and you know, had to have that flap stitched up.

Caroline Beste (37m 1s):
So while Smokey was still alive, he spent six months with Smokey, primarily before, you know, smoke had to be put to rest. And that was really good for helping Blue learn a different way as a youngster. So relationship is key and it's also grooming. You've gotta get in there and and be able, you, both of you, you and your Horse need to start grooming each other, you know, grooming other Horses that is so key to babies. And so if you have a young Horse and it's just you, what if you, you've got 'em and you brought 'em to your farm and you don't have another Horse or you have older Horses or you brought 'em to your boarding facility and you might not be out with anybody or it might not be safe to put 'em out with anybody.

Caroline Beste (37m 44s):
You, you just have to know what they need and they need a lot of relationship. And part of that is a big part of that is grooming. And not just you grooming them, it's you finding all their special spots. They're that they like to be touched and and scratched and then they will start grooming you and then this becomes mouthy. And that's okay. You know, that's another big a podcast we could do on mouthy Horses. So, you know, babies, you know, are mouthy because usually they're teething and they'll shed their teeth up until the age of five. They'll get a whole new set of teeth every year up until the age of five or six, maybe their fifth year is their last one.

Caroline Beste (38m 29s):
So they will teeth, they will grab on things, they will suck on things. This is not cribbing, this is not sucking wind, but, but you'll notice everything goes in the mouth. And that's also part of curiosity. So you don't wanna dissuade a young Horse, especially geldings because it's a characteristic or a trait of male Horses. They're very mouthy, they'll play hard. It's all part of definitely a pecking order that Horses go through at a young age to establish hierarchy. And so you won't see it in mares as much, but you'll definitely see it in boy Horses and you don't wanna discourage that. And so that's where you have to learn how to redirect that or give them something to do like my work that teaches them how to get quiet and focused and just literally a s a level of meditation for them.

Caroline Beste (39m 22s):
And, and that'll, that's age appropriate though. That's where it, it'll, it'll be really intense the first two years, like puppies chewing on everything. So you, so you know, this is a whole nother podcast. I'm not gonna dive in deep about mouthy for Young Horses. Just know that it's, it's, it should be allowed. It's part of the way that they learn their environment and they experience their environment, including you. And so if I've got a really mouthy young Horse, I'll often, I'm all over their face all the time anyway, kissing them and blowing in their, their mouth. They love when I blow up their cheeks with air, you know, cause it's playful blowing in their nose.

Caroline Beste (40m 2s):
And, you know, and, and I'll play with them and they'll play back and I'll allow them to lick and, and nibble. It's all good. You just don't wanna 'em biting you or, or you know, learning that they can really bite you, but bitings part of it. So that's a whole nother, like I said, a whole nother podcast. You just have to know what's age appropriate and how to not wean them off of it, but how to keep doing the work. Developing them and just allowing it, but maybe redirecting it at the same time. So it's like I always let them chew on the lead robes. Chew on the whip. If they're not destroying the rubber on the whip, you know, you don't want 'em to chew on e learn to chew on everything, don't get me wrong.

Caroline Beste (40m 44s):
You gotta learn like it's wax on, wax off. Like okay, I wanna allow you to, to pick up the bucket and bite on everything, but now we're gonna go somewhere else. You know, you, you've had some time exploring your environment and, but I don't want you destroying your environment and then you don't wanna criticize 'em by hitting them or hey, hey, hey, hey, you're, anything really sharp that's gonna scare them, you know, just redirect it. Ask 'em to back up. Hey, we're gonna go over here now I'm gonna send you around me, give you something to do. We'll focus maybe go graze. So relationship is number one for Young Horse Development. Number two is experience. And in this order.

Caroline Beste (41m 25s):
So exposure does not mean desensitizing. So giving your Horse lots of experiences does not equal desensitizing at all. There is no desensitizing in my method. You're gonna, you're gonna mess it up you guys, especially the way it's taught. I mean learning how to properly sensitize or desensitize a Horse is quite a skill. And desensitizing should only be used in extreme cases of rehabilitation. And very briefly. So it should not even, you don't, you shouldn't have to do it. If your Horse has plenty of confidence, they're not gonna be scared of anything.

Caroline Beste (42m 5s):
And if they really trust you, they're not gonna be scared of anything you present. And so my young Horse blue had quite a few strikes against him and he's five and this is the year that I'm gonna slowly introduce him into his intense education for the lack of better. But it's not that intense. But it's, he's had nothing, he's had some education that's been age appropriate and then I've left him alone because he gets handled the same way every day by me. So he has that consistency, he has that relationship, he has that, that repetition and that beautiful reward in the relationship. So only you know, when I knew that he needed me to work with him, did I work with him and then I would leave him alone.

Caroline Beste (42m 52s):
And so Blue has the fear of bags, the fear of tarps. If y'all know blue and you've seen him on the YouTube channel. And so you've seen him when he was eight months, we took a two and a half hour video on the YouTube channel and broke it down I think into three parts. And he was dripping wet at the end. I mean he acted like a wild Horse. I've never worked with a baby on such a strong self-preservation mode like him. And not to mention his athleticism, he was crazy, but he also learned this. It wasn't, he wasn't born with this fear. So you wanna experience, it means exposure.

Caroline Beste (43m 32s):
Can you hand walk your baby all over the property, all over the facility and allow them to, are they curious? If they're curious, allow it. Okay, we spent enough time here. Maybe they'll start praising and that tells you they're ready to do something else. Or maybe you say, okay, we're gonna walk over here now. But it's also part of how you walk so you can do a little bit of development and training while you're ex, you know, giving them that exposure and that experience. And all of that can be learned in my big mastery Membership Writing foundation program. It's for young babies too, just cuz you're not riding there is so much to do before you ride to begin with.

Caroline Beste (44m 12s):
Number three is threshold. Learn how to recognize them and respect them. Don't push a young Horse through. Let them tell you how they feel it's information and then you'll learn, wow man, we've been stuck here sometimes with a young Horse, you'll be stuck there for a year or two. Blue was stuck with the bag and the tarp and I did what I could too in those videos to get him safe enough for my staff to handle. Cuz that's why I created that video years ago because he basically ran one of my staff members down. It was har.

Caroline Beste (44m 52s):
I mean it's horrible because a bag flew out on a windy day and, and it was horrible. But other than that, it's taken him to this age four years later. And bags are always around and tarps are always around to, to just get enough courage. If you look at some of those most recent videos of this year, just to get enough courage and confidence to try to work around a tarp, isn't that, and I don't force it. And you'll see Levy who used to be petrified at tarps at liberty go up and help him. She now paws at the tarp, picks it up, stands on it, rests on it.

Caroline Beste (45m 33s):
That Horse wouldn't go near them. So he was also learning to fear tarps from Sundance and Lovey here. So I know that this is the way it should be done. I know meaning you guys are probably going, what the heck? I can't wait all these years. Then go ahead and force it and see what it does. You have to see what you can be, yeah, see what you create. Then you're gonna have to fight resistance. We don't wanna work with resistance. When you see resistance, why make it happen? We are taught to push and I think it's instinctual in predators and in the human mind, the ego. But we're taught to push. We do it in all of our relationships. Why can't we just back off respect that other being, whether it's your human relationship or your Horse, that they're not ready.

Caroline Beste (46m 19s):
So there's so much work you can be doing to help them. Like I've done with blue plus blue is young. Had he been a 10 year old that came to me afraid of tarps, we would've been able to work through that and no time you guys. But their brains aren't ready. That's why it's age appropriate. There's stages to developing Young Horses and, and everybody's a little unique. You know, everybody matures a little differently, but we can stereotype it a little bit. The third I said is thresholds and the fourth is slow. This is, this probably could be number one, but I think, I think it's number one, the number one reason why so many people their Young, Horses are messed up is because the training has been rushed, pushed.

Caroline Beste (47m 4s):
It's too fast. The young Horse hasn't even had time to be a young Horse. And I just can't emphasize that enough. To me, you really shouldn't even begin any intense training until the age of seven. You know, blue's gonna start to go into a more formal education. I won't use the word intense when I say intense at the age of seven. We know that all their bones have all their bones, like their back, their spine, they have matured and fully formed. We know by the age of seven, science has proven that. So why would I wanna be riding, let alone bouncing if I'm not a good rider on my horse's back from the ages of two to seven, why would I wanna do that?

Caroline Beste (47m 50s):
And

Emily F. (47m 51s):
Chris has kind of a question slash comment. She said my three-year-old plays with tarp, so that's fantastic. But she about his pushiness, I asked her to clarify that. Is he pushy with her? And she said he is. So I don't know if you want to talk about how we handle that.

Caroline Beste (48m 11s):
So did she say he, is it a boy?

Emily F. (48m 14s):
Yes. He,

Caroline Beste (48m 15s):
Okay, so you have, this is where I go back to like puppies and young kids and Young Horses and you have to teach 'em what's appropriate. It's why you say age appropriate. So I don't know what age you got your three-year-old. He might have come to you at the age of two or two and a half or three pushy. You just have to teach him. But also there's that love and leadership, that balancing of understanding and respecting that he's three and he's a boy. Employees are pushy and some are more dominant. The more dominant a personality, not, he's not necessarily dominant by pushing you.

Caroline Beste (48m 58s):
Because pushing can mean many things. You guys just like biting can mean many things. But I'm just gonna generalize it right now because we can. And then we can always dive in deeper with a coaching session where I can review video or we can talk about it. Cuz I cannot fully assess a situation unless I'm there or I can lay my eyes on it. But it's natural for boys. Mares can do it too. They're just more dominant in personality. So there is see Horses instinctively young babies when they're playing. And you won't see it with mares, but you'll see it with geldings. That is a pecking order. And pecking order is what it, it sounds like they're pecking to see where they fit into the hierarchy.

Caroline Beste (49m 40s):
Once they figure that hierarchy out, it's done. They settle, especially wild Horses, they all accept their positions and they all know how to work together. So there's never one lead Horse. There might be a lead Horse in a specific situation cuz they have more experience and confidence, but if they're not experienced or confidence, another Horse will come up and lead. So just understanding some of this basic dogma out there that has taught us that Horses need alpha people. They need, you need to tell 'em whose boss, you know, that's disrespectful. If they're pushing on you, you gotta allow some of it. You gotta allow, that's him trying to figure out where he belongs. And then you say, that's enough.

Caroline Beste (50m 20s):
It's no different than your child or your puppy. Like they're gonna wanna jump on you, your puppy, until you, you teach them no, that I will give you the attention you're looking for, but you need to ask me a certain way. Puppy and jumping is not how you get my attention. Or jumping is not how you're gonna show me how much you love me or care. You. You see that the puppy wants to jump, they jump because they want attention or they care about you. So why not give them the attention and teach them that when you sit, maybe put your paw on me or whine teach them. So for the Horse it's no different because it's a, it's part of their socialization pushing, it's part of figuring out where they belong.

Caroline Beste (50m 59s):
It's part of figuring out you. And so for me, I, you know, I wanna teach all my Young Horses, even as we leans to respect my space, just like they would in a natural herd dynamic. You know, they'll know early on very quickly who they can go up to and that herd dynamic and who they need to respect. And so, you know, for me it's like I know how babies will progress. I know the stages and it's like, okay, you know, I'm gonna assess you. Are you a little bit more dominant or a little bit more introverted? You know, if you're more dominant, I'm already gonna assert myself early on with you young Horse, meaning before you even think about running into my space, I'm gonna set up the opportunity to watch you play and run.

Caroline Beste (51m 52s):
And when you do the zoomies and think of coming towards me, I'm just gonna take my big lunge whip and just stand still and here's my space. And they might even gently just run right into that whip, but they're already going. Woo. There was a flick of the Tao, there was a flick of mom saying, oh nope, that's too close. So, so gently and a assertively, but lovingly you can set it up where you become like mama's Tao or a pin of the ear. Nope. And you put that energy out there and that intention, you do your zoomies out there, you do your zoomies around me, but you keep 10 feet from me. And so if you've got a Horse that's three and he is already, maybe he's learned this, you, I don't know his experience with you and we don't have a podcast to dedicate all that detail.

Caroline Beste (52m 40s):
That's where eight months old. Okay, you got him at eight months old. So yeah. So it's so hard because nobody's educating people like this podcast about Young Horses and, and what is a, what's a, what's normal for them instinctively and in a healthy natural herd dynamic, you know, what happens? How are they raised? And them doing the best I can by saying, you know, look at healthy young children. You know, look at healthy young dogs that have manners that, that are happy and curious. They're not shut down, but they know how to talk to you. They know how to connect and communicate and get their needs met without having extreme behaviors.

Caroline Beste (53m 26s):
And so we really wanna meet the needs of our Young Horses. We have to where we don't provide their first hierarchy of need. That that sense of security, that sense of safety. You know, they need to feel safe with us, they need to feel that we love them and we're gonna, you know, but we're also gonna provide structure and, and some level of discipline. So yeah, the first thing I would do with your three-year-old, if you haven't already, is start teaching them how to back away from you, back away from you and respect your space and stand patiently. That would be the first, and I teach this in my big mastery membership relationship ground and riding foundation program.

Caroline Beste (54m 6s):
And then it would be sending and leading and how to get your Horse to lead behind you until you know they're ready to lead next to you. So we have relationship experience thresholds and going slow. Wow. We've really taken that going slow and staying longer out of it completely. Everybody wants to ride and it's absolutely makes me sick because when you look at the science of it, how much damage you do. I wish I was taught this when I got my three-year-old Sundance and my turning five Smokey and legend was already damaged his, he could have been born with weak suspensory in the hind end, but when dad got him at eight, and I didn't start working with him until 11, he was 11.

Caroline Beste (54m 54s):
And then one to two years into, and Legend was my top horse doing, you know, three Tempe bridal lead changes, Halte, you know, the works. I realized watching video, how bad the suspensory were getting. So he got basically semi-retired in his early teens. He could still do performances. He already knew everything. I didn't need to exercise a hell out of this Horse anymore at all. Okay, you guys get that. So if I, I wish I had known what I know today because I, I believe I destroyed both Sundance and Smokey their longevity and soundness.

Caroline Beste (55m 39s):
Absolutely. Now I've been told differently with Smokey's acute arthritis in his left front leg that basically put him down, you know, that that was something he could have inherited as a trait for the quarter Horse. And it was made worse with the brace in his body in Sundance. You look at her, she's all crippled up with arthritis at the age of 21. And, and I know that's again, because she had so much, both of them had trauma before I got them. They were both rescues, rehab, but they had so much tension embrace through their minds and their bodies. And I was searching and searching, you know, I don't wanna start crying.

Caroline Beste (56m 23s):
I owe them so much respect for pushing me down this, this road to figuring out what I'm teaching today. It's just unnecessary. There's so much we can do to enjoy our Horses. We can put our first ride on at the age of two. You know, we can do all of that, but it's just this intense riding that is destroying our Horses, let alone the mines. You know, just because I put rides on a two and three year old doesn't mean I'm gonna put 'em into formal education because they're just not ready. You know, this is where it's age appropriate. It's no different than putting your, your five year old who's supposed to be going into kindergarten just because they're brilliant and they're savant.

Caroline Beste (57m 5s):
Why would you put him socially into third grade? They're not ready. So that's huge. A lot of questions. How do you know when to move forward with your young Horse? You're not gonna know. That's why you need to be educated. And again, you know, I, I built this massive comprehensive one of a kind universal step-by-step program, my mastery program, because it is for every type of Horse in every situation. Just because you're not ready to ride doesn't mean you can't do all these other amazing things with your young Horse or your older Horse that's been traumatized and you're restarting them through the program.

Caroline Beste (57m 50s):
So moving forward, you've gotta learn that you guys, there's, there's, I, that's another big myth buster and dogma out there is there's so many professionals just teaching you, you know, simple things, but they don't know what's the big picture of where you are with your Horse per se. You know, you're out there buying this information thinking, oh, in this one CD or this one 12 week course or two week course or eight week course, I'm gonna know everything I need to know, you know, to help me. It's not that easy, you know, there's, it's like, my gosh, I'm a therapist for Horses.

Caroline Beste (58m 30s):
There's no doubt about it. I mean, it's, it's that complicated. And working with thousands of Horses has given me, you know, the, the experience to be able to, to not just diagnose and, and problem solve, but understand how some things can get generalized and then there's a lot of specifics to other things. So it's no different to me than a lot of our human psychology and behavior. So how do you know when to move forward? That's a tough one, but I will help you the best I can. So here's my answer to that. It is a tough one, but mostly, you know, when to move forward in any horse's development or training at any age.

Caroline Beste (59m 14s):
When your Horse is calm, relaxed with the experience and they understand what you're asking them, meaning if I'm giving you the cue to back up and you're backing up and you look calm and attentive and focused on me, wow, that's a plus. We got it. Let's move on to the next thing. Doesn't mean we stop asking for the backup, we're gonna keep doing it age appropriate for as long as needed until we don't have to do it anymore. So you have to understand the purpose of every exercise. Why would I wanna keep doing the backup with a young Horse, meaning for years?

Caroline Beste (59m 57s):
Because I know a young Horse is fractious and easily distracted. And if I don't keep reinforcing, that's where repetition comes in, reinforcing the backup, the Horse is gonna forget about me and possibly run me over. And we want to really keep asking our Horse to focus on us, stay connected, be mindful of us. That's why that backup may stay for years. It just will be easier and easier until the Horse is like, yep, every time I'm in my, my person's company, I know I need to be mindful cuz I could hurt them.

Caroline Beste (1h 0m 38s):
Does that make sense?

Emily F. (1h 0m 40s):
Oh, absolutely. And, and yeah, I know we're talking about the young Horse, but I can't help but how this relates to any Horse with trauma and my third trigger, the triggers, what they were put through a dane had no confidence. He was low man on the totem pole. All these things when I got him and through the work, through taking the time, letting him develop and not, you know, pushing over, pushing him or asking too much, he is now confident. He, he plays, he grooms, he actually was trying to use his teeth, His teeth on me the other day and we had to have a conversation about how mom's skin is not as tough as his or his sisters, but just through the process and allowing him the time and the support and, and learning myself to become that leader and love for him.

Emily F. (1h 1m 35s):
He has come so far and I just can't. Yeah, it just makes complete sense. Whether it's a young Horse or a traumatized older Horse, giving them the time and support that they need and not overdoing it because of what we want and what our ambitions are

Caroline Beste (1h 1m 52s):
Exactly. Making it happens, I think, I think too, it's just a lack of education. I wanna say we're just not informed this way, you know, once, once it's there, it's there for life. And what, what's the big picture in all of this? Whether it's a young Horse, an older Horse, we want, we wanna have that level of con connection. We want to both be present, us and our Horses. We wanna be mindful of each other. We want to feel safe in each other's presence. You know, we want all of those wonderful things to happen. So you want to keep doing these types of exercises that I teach, like the backup until you feel that those things, the big picture is accomplished.

Caroline Beste (1h 2m 33s):
And it's much easier with an older Horse, even with trauma because the brain is, the cognitive abilities are already there. Younger Horses, just like young kids, they just take a while until they catch up. It's just like telling you can only hope when you're telling your young kid, like my son, my stepson, you know that after so many years it's finally gonna click. Right? I don't have to tell him anymore. I mean that, I think every parent, we've all, we're all there. And so you just know as a parent it gets frustrating. You get exhausted. When is it gonna be the day that I can stop reminding my, my child to do X, Y, and Z? Or do it this way or talk this way or speak this way, or, or push your chair in or sit up at the table, you know, whatever it is.

Caroline Beste (1h 3m 15s):
Finally, it'll click. If you do it right, if you do it where they're gonna hate it, then you know what that result's gonna be. And for Horses, unfortunately, because they're so passive by nature, they're pleasers by nature. They wanna get along, they wanna please us. They're easy to control, believe it or not. I know this sounds counterintuitive, you guys, but look at all the harsh mechanical ways of training we've been doing all these years to make our Horses comply, to make them submit when we don't have to do it that way. Give them the benefit of being intelligent.

Caroline Beste (1h 3m 58s):
Understand how much they really want to be with us and partner with us. You just have to learn how to go about it the right way so you don't ruin them and have all these backlashes, all these issues, okay, wow, I can't believe an hour's gone by. So understand, like young children and Young, Horses get bored and easily distracted. This is normal and needs to be respected. So don't confuse bored with needing something new to learn. So here we go back to education and, and a young Horse is inability to take on too much. Okay? So many people write into me.

Caroline Beste (1h 4m 39s):
My Horse acts bored. And my first thing is, how old are they? Well, they're seven or they're, they're nine. So they're starting to peak into maturity at the age of nine and 10, for sure. And I'm like, okay, well what do they know? You know, do you have X, Y, and Z in place? Because to me, I wanna create a zen with my Horses. I wanna create the zone through meditation, focus and discipline. And that's what all my students learn with me. And so that means that we can, we can sit quietly together. We can be quiet together in everything we do with any kind of work writing. We know how to be in that moment.

Caroline Beste (1h 5m 20s):
Whether you've been triggered or you are, just have a lack of focus and discipline. We know how to be together in that moment. It takes a, it's a practice. It's a practice. Wild Horses. It is not. This is, this is where we've damaged our domesticated Horses. You get a wild Horse and man with no triggers. They are in the moment better than anything. So there's a lot to be learned there. Yeah, that's another hard thing. Not very many of us have that experience. So again, I see so many confused Horse owners thinking they need to keep their young Horse busy or to desensitize them so they aren't scared.

Caroline Beste (1h 6m 3s):
Both will damage your young horse's confidence though. And, and well not both will damage their confidence. The desensitizing will. But if you're constantly allowing your Horse to, you know, basically drag you to whatever they're interested in, you know, then you know there's an extreme. We don't want extremes here. We wanna allow curiosity, but then redirect it. There's that, that yin and yang that wax on, wax off that balance of yes, I, I see that you really wanna go explore that and maybe play with it. Okay, now it's time to go back to do something more focused with me. Connected with me.

Caroline Beste (1h 6m 43s):
Eventually when they mature, they'll always be in that moment with you. The curiosity won't really be there. It might be, oh, what is this? Oh, oh, okay, wow. You know, versus a baby, you'll spend an hour with it and destroy it. We don't wanna teach to destroy it. Okay? So understanding how Horses learn, let's go through these bullet points real quick. Horses are sentient beans who have complex feelings and opinions. They're socially intelligent, craving deep bonds and family. These deep bonds and relationships are what make them feel safe, secure, and their needs are met.

Caroline Beste (1h 7m 25s):
Man, this is critical. Number two, Horses are passive species born followers who instinctively seek harmonious relationships and wanna get along. You gotta figure out how to find that in your dynamic with your Horse. How to find that harmony, that flow, and how to work together. Three, to accept leadership from you, the Horse must trust you first and respect you. You must earn that. You must earn it. And so if your Horse is disrespectful, and I say it in quotes, they're not, you've gotta teach them how to respect what you say.

Caroline Beste (1h 8m 8s):
Your space. That no means no, that I want you to work with me. Now you've gotta teach 'em that if leadership is forced, they will submit. It's self-preservation though. But they will never accept you or choose you. And trust me, they will leave you in a heartbeat and you will get hurt. So yeah, they will work, they will work, but with some level of fear, anxiety, or learned helplessness. So we have to recognize all of that. Four, when a Horse feels safe and secure, they're calm and relaxed. This means they're in their parasympathetic nervous system and are open to learning.

Caroline Beste (1h 8m 51s):
So I put in bold, this is the only time you should train a Horse. Period. When they're in their parasympathetic nervous system, their state of rest and digest, where they are calm, open, and relaxed. And five, when a Horse does not feel safe and secure, they're anxious and preoccupied. We all know what that looks like. They're not in the moment. This means they are in the past in a memory, they're triggered and they're in their sympathetic nervous system. Sympathetic. That means they're not open to learning, they're in self-preservation mode. So they're sympathetic and parasympathetic. You need to train only in parasympathetic and it can switch like that.

Caroline Beste (1h 9m 34s):
Even a young baby who has no fear, you might come on too strong and they might, their instincts will take over. They're flooded with adrenaline and all. Or you might confuse them or frustrate them. And they're, they'll go from parasympathetic to sympathetic just like that. And all of a sudden you've got fight, flight or freeze on your hands. So you can the, and when you're rehabilitating a Horse or even learning how to train a Horse, they can go back and forth between both nervous systems. You've gotta be able to identify when is your Horse leaving that calm, rest and digest and starting to freeze up.

Caroline Beste (1h 10m 17s):
Tighten up and go into either freeze or when they're getting, you know, more they're escalating into a fight or flight. Shut it down, shut it down. I teach all of this in my big program. Get 'em back into the parasympathetic and go and work from there. So T two key points. Training should be in stages. Training should be in stages. Whereas developing a Horse is constant. And you will do both in any age. So if I have a young Horse, I am developing them with short periods of training.

Caroline Beste (1h 11m 3s):
What, what would be short? You have to know what's age appropriate. Well, they have to learn how to be haltered. They have to learn how to pick up their feet. For me, they have to learn how to be tied. But that doesn't mean I will tie them to teach them. Hell no. So there's training right in stages. So it's not just age appropriate stages, it's also training should be in stages at any age. And when you're developing them, it's constant because you're developing Habits. Habits have to be a constant repetitious process.

Caroline Beste (1h 11m 44s):
So is education till it becomes second nature. Alright? The opposite of this has become the norm. We take a two-year-old and we begin their formal trainings. I can't even say formal training because they put 30 days on them and destroy 'em. So they, what do they do? Oh man, I got this Horse caning and first day, oh my god, the two year old isn't even mentally or physically balanced to handle a rider, let alone you jerking them all over the place. They're gonna fall in drop a shoulder, they don't have the strength or the balance or the self carriage and, and yet we're gonna ride them for 30 days.

Caroline Beste (1h 12m 29s):
There's no groundwork usually with these Horses and even at the age of two, you do not wanna do any intense lunging. Their bones, tendons, joints especially are not fully closed. And this is, this is definitely how I believe I messed up my two young quarter Horses without understanding any of this. Even though I was paying lots of money and trying to learn, I didn't know the right questions to, to ask. And nobody was giving me this information freely from dressage to raining to natural Horsemanship. I couldn't get it anywhere. So here it is. How about competing a two or three year old?

Caroline Beste (1h 13m 10s):
What about raining? What about dressage? Oh, my three-year-old is, you know, training level dressage. What the masters of, of classical dressage. I always talk about the Spanish school of writing, which still exists. They might, they're developing their Young Horses, they're doing age appropriate stages. And by the age of four they're bringing them into some formal education. These Horses, all their high school upper level movements are developed way before the riders ever introduced. And the rider isn't introduced until like the age, obviously seven or eight when their joints and backs have fully fused, not fused, but developed.

Caroline Beste (1h 13m 54s):
It's crazy. How about jumping a three or four year old Horse and saying number one key principle, we are developing our Young Horses, remember the mindset language is everything. We're developing them, developing them, Developing, Good, Habits, shaping them to the best of our ability. They are who they are. They have their own unique personalities. You gotta understand what to work with. And that's another hard thing. So if you do have a dominant Horse like I do with Zor, you better, you better be okay with that. And Zor will give you his heart. Zor is amazing at some things, but he has zero work ethic, even though he has an amazing, you know, ability to do a canter pirouette practically on his own, you know, and through, through the schooling that I've given him.

Caroline Beste (1h 14m 50s):
But he has no motivation. So he just wants to figure that one out all the time. Yeah, he just wants to love you, as I say, molest you, right? Yeah. He will find that that point. Attention on your back though. And, and rub it out. So

Emily F. (1h 15m 7s):
Chris made a comment, 30 days doesn't have to mean damage. My, the trainer she uses has used all the different Horsemanship techniques,

Caroline Beste (1h 15m 17s):
Correct? 30 days, no, 30 days does not, obviously not. Depends on what you're doing. I've had a lot of Young. Horses, great point Chris, thank you. A lot of Young Horses come to me and I'll tell them exactly what I'm gonna do. Yes, you can bring, we did the, we have a course on it Reese, it's actually my young Horse Horse that I sell, but it's restarting, it's restarting. Two damaged, challenged Young, Horses Blue and Susie. They're both two blue spot, they're both five now. And then it was starting a five-year-old, three-year-old, three-year-old Friesian. So yeah, you can do a lot in 30 days, but it's how you do it. And, and are you, is the trainer, keeping in mind the things that we're talking about, the maturity level of the horse, what's age appropriate to them mentally, emotionally, and physically?

Caroline Beste (1h 16m 7s):
And and what do you expect at the age of two? You absolutely neither Blue or Susie would you get on at the age of two. No way. And that has so much to do with the damage that was done. But I think it was a, the three-year-old Friesian that was with me for just five days, I did not get on him, but I could have gotten on him. So temperament has a lot to do with it. That Friesian temperament, you know, you've got blue, his parents raised thorough breads, you know, Susie was registered, quarter Horse and Thoroughbreds, she was double registered and both her parents raced. So, you know, bloodlines do matter. Yeah, there's nothing wrong.

Caroline Beste (1h 16m 47s):
I got on a lot of my two and three year olds and gave them their first rides in a week because I either raised them or they were raised right? And here I got permission to get on and let's work on the go button, the stop button and the steering. And we were just walking, maybe we'd pick up a little bit of a trap. But you gotta realize you can't develop a Horse physically in 30 days. It's like an athlete. So even if, what are you doing, you know, in 30 days to any Horse, I don't care what age it is, you know, it takes time to develop balance in a Horse mentally and physically. And so often, you know, that is the reason why our Horses are bucking and running around and having tantrums when we lunge them, whether it's free lunging or on the line, you know, they're not balanced and it's dangerous for them.

Caroline Beste (1h 17m 39s):
When they lose their balance, their adrenaline kicks in, their instincts kick in. It's very scary for them. So that's my question back to you is that's, that's great, but what are you doing in 30 days? You know, what's the purpose? What's the expectation? You know, what ages are the Horse? What age is the Horse? Anyway, okay, so the first key principle is we're developing our Young Horses, right? Developing the key word here. Number two is training happens in stages. It doesn't matter what age in stages. And it takes a lot longer for younger Horses because it has to be age appropriate or will ruin them mentally, emotionally, and physically.

Caroline Beste (1h 18m 24s):
So let's move on. All right, let's talk about ages and stages of emotional, mental and physical maturity in Young Horses. So I broke it down to Ween Lane. We all know what Ween Lane is from birth to well and Wild Horses, it's two years, but we ween our Horses, you know, before they're one. So we're gonna say Weanlings from zero to one years of age when they're born to one year. And we have our yearling, that's one. So one year old. And then we have our two-year-olds, and then we have our two to three years, we have three to four, then we have four to six, could do five, we have six to seven, seven to nine, and then 10.

Caroline Beste (1h 19m 9s):
So I've broken down these ages according to My experience and seeing patterns. And this is a strong pattern that that from a ween lane to a year lane in that first year, they act a certain way. All of them doesn't matter what sex breed, that's a ween lane. That's just the, the equine species, they act a certain way. When they're a year lean, they, they change. It's another way that they act. When they become two, they change. It's another way that they act. So these are their stages. And then between the ages of two and three, sometimes they're a slow, late bloom, late bloomer, you know, they're slow to mature.

Caroline Beste (1h 19m 52s):
So a three-year-old might still act like a two-year-old, but they really start to mature quickly. Between two and three, you'll see significant changes like a mouthier two-year-old or you know, a more aroused two-year-old, or even curious, you know, anything that's more extreme as a two-year-old will start to mellow out as they become three. Does that make sense? So any kinda extreme traits or behavior, as long as the ch the training isn't triggering or creating anything or the handling or the environment, as long as everything stays the same and they're allowed to just naturally mature, you'll see a significant change between two and three and then three and four, they kind of stay the same.

Caroline Beste (1h 20m 46s):
They're kind of the same that whole year and then four to five, yeah, they really start, you'll really start to see another level of maturity. And you know, normally if your Horses untainted and doesn't have any issues, oh my gosh, you know, if you start putting first rides on them at two, which you should be able to do and you have permission to get on, you know, and you're slowly developing them and and doing things slowly by the age of four. I had Smokey's nephew at the age of four. He was first level dressage, but my way, bitless didn't, didn't have a saddle or bad riding.

Caroline Beste (1h 21m 27s):
There was no intense riding. There was no banging on his back or banging on. He was 17. Two hands at the age of four. Oh gosh, well, well before four at the age of two. So again, you have a big Horse. If you don't, you better not be banging around on them or running them around. You're gonna destroy their joints. They will have no soundness as they get older. So by the time he was four, you know, he was going out in group trail rides, light fox hunting, the Horse was, and I raised him from a baby, from a ween lane and sold him to a student of mine. He, I mean he looked like a 10 year old and he was a goofy, he was double registered, quarter Horse thorough Brad.

Caroline Beste (1h 22m 9s):
He looked like a thoroughbred his father. And he was flighty, goofy weanling, like he was just so anxious. So yeah, we gotta look at, you know, where they are personality-wise. So six years of age, you know, seven again, another level of maturity, kind of evening out. And then you've got seven to nine. That's when you know you can start really giving them a more intense education. Like, okay, now I'm gonna start. Now you've got a great foundation of groundwork and light riding and you know, some easy cues, right?

Caroline Beste (1h 22m 49s):
Like you know your go buttons great and all your transitions and your gates and your stop buttons great. And your steering's great, you've got a pretty healthy at the age of seven, I've developed you slowly over time, not every day, not every week, not every month. But I've developed you slowly enough so that by the age of seven you've got self carriage, you're strong and balanced. So now I'm gonna start. So that would kind of fit training level dressage. Now I'm gonna start now to teach you some more advanced maneuvers. They're gonna ask for more gymnastics from you and in more strength building and balance building exercises cuz it's appropriate.

Caroline Beste (1h 23m 31s):
Now, I'm not gonna be hurting your joints, I'm not gonna be stressing your back out. I'm not gonna be stressing your mind out cuz these Young Horses can only like a young child take in so much information and process it. So I know by the age of seven, for the most part, if he's been, if your Horse has been raised right, or even if you're restarting the Horse and you, and you know they're younger than seven by the age of seven is a pretty good age to start, you know, a more informal education. Let's see. So we already went over three keys to success, right? Consistency, repetition, and reward. That's my three always. We want short periods.

Caroline Beste (1h 24m 13s):
So this is basically my approach to developing or training any Horse, but developing a young Horse. So you want three keys to success, consistency, repetition, reward. That's with any Horse you want. Short periods or intervals of of learning, short periods of learning. Not every day, but maybe so many days in a row with so many days off cuz you're looking to create patterns. So that means you don't just go one day and then come back five days later. Stop on a good point and build from there. You'd be surprised Emily, you laugh, but you'd be, I only have two days a week with my Horse and I'm like, I'll do, how old are they?

Caroline Beste (1h 24m 53s):
Let's talk about it. Yeah, let's see what we can accomplish in two days. Let's be realistic. Give lots of dwell time as I call it. So this is time to pause, let things sink in and process. And so again, we're looking for the parasympathetic nervous system. We're looking for a Horse to do a lot of licking and chewing. Yawning means they've really processed what's been going on and they're super relaxed. You know, they're releasing endorphins. It doesn't get any better than that. And then building good Habits is an everyday practice until the Horse just knows and you're just like, where I'm at with my guys. It's, it's amazing. It's, and there's so many things when you develop this foundation that I'm talking about in my big program, you know, I can take five of my Horses who can't wait to eat and come through this back alley gate and I can open that gate up and 99% of the time, you know, Zar is not there controlling it.

Caroline Beste (1h 25m 50s):
They're all, they all will go, will check in with me first before they walk to their stalls or to their food. They will check in with me. Food is not their motivation, it's they just it. So many of these good Habits are like, no, you're not gonna run through me. Run past me. Let's stay connected. You're gonna get fed. But they feel safe and secure. It's not a technical or mechanical conditioned response I've created in them. I never made them or force them to check in with me. Oh my god, I'm not, Hitler would never think like that. But all the building blocks are there, meaning they feel safe.

Caroline Beste (1h 26m 30s):
They, they enjoy my company. They wanna kiss on the eyeball. They want that connection from me before they go to eat. It doesn't get any better than that. They don't just stop and and freeze. And then I say, you can go, they are coming to me for affection and some of them will stay while the other ones might run by. It just doesn't get any better than that you guys. And when you have that and it takes all of these building skills, when you have that depth of relationship, you will be safe. Cuz the Horse is always thinking about you and they're in their parasympathetic nervous system. So they're not in their fight, flight or freeze, they're not in their self-preservation.

Caroline Beste (1h 27m 10s):
And even if they're, they're getting ready to switch into that sympathetic nervous system, you have plenty of time because they're gonna keep checking in to you for that level of leadership and security and safety that you've been giving them. Even if it, even if it breaks cuz something new just happened that just blew their mind and they're ready to to, to go and blow. They're gonna look at you first. They're gonna check in with you first. It's so beautiful. So let's go through this real quick. You know you're wrong when your young Horse acts like this.

Caroline Beste (1h 27m 49s):
And this is important, you know that you're doing the wrong thing when these things happen. And this can be older Horses too, cuz I get these questions all the time and everybody e that emails me about this once my opinion because they've been told that that their Horse is wrong and that their Horse is disobedient, that their Horse is disrespectful and that they need to do X, y, and Z. So I'm flipping it, I'm reversing this cuz you are wrong. They're wrong for telling you that. And you know you've done something wrong. When your Horse acts like this, they're frustrated. They kick out, they snake at you, they paw at you, they stomp at you, they're frustrated, they're pissed off.

Caroline Beste (1h 28m 32s):
Yes, they get like that. They're angry, they're irritated, they're telling you something. Now again, here comes that boundary and that balance like, okay, I hear you, but enough's enough. Or you can talk to me like that, but over there, not in front of me. Don't threaten me. Don't threaten me. If I haven't threatened you, don't threaten me. And I'm real clear about that. Cause I've worked with a lot of really crazy trauma cases and they're so used to practically attacking people to get them to leave them alone. And I'm like, Uhuh, I didn't attack you. I'm not, hey, hey, hey, be in the moment with me too, Horse be in the moment. I'm not that person. And it, it changes like that, believe me, it's powerful.

Caroline Beste (1h 29m 14s):
So you always have that right to protect yourself. And that's why when you begin my method, I always ask you to carry a long lunge with always until you don't need it anymore. For many reasons. For many, many, many reasons. It's an extension of you. If your Horse re is reactive and runs away, runs off overreacts and acts afraid of everything, then you're doing something wrong. You're pushing too hard, you're blowing your Horse, you're over facing overwhelming them, trigger stacking them, pushing 'em through thresholds. If your Horse is nervous and skittish, apprehensive, shine, balking. So how many of you out there are like, well my Horse came this way, my Horse is already this way.

Caroline Beste (1h 29m 57s):
So my question to you is, what are you doing to change that? I'm talking about the Horse you have today. I don't wanna hear, well my Horse came to me like this and it's a year later, it's six months later. What did you do to create this? Nurture it, maintain it. Something needs to change. And if your Horse is acting like this or any one of these you need, you need to change your mindset first. And then what you're doing, your Horse is resistant. This is usually labeled dominant, lazy, stubborn, dull resistance means a lot of things.

Caroline Beste (1h 30m 40s):
Resistance can be fighting you, pulling away from you, pushing through you, running away from you. Your resistance can be refusing to engage. Neither is healthy. So with Young Horses, it is normal like kids to test you. And one of the common dogmas out there is, and I get this from people with their adult Horses that say this about my, my adult Horse. Oh they're just testing you. You better show him whose boss what? First of all, if you're I, most of the time that's not even accurate.

Caroline Beste (1h 31m 22s):
The Horse is not testing you. The Horse expressing themselves and they're irritated and you don't know how to deal with it or how to understand it. And so you, and you've been taught that your Horse by someone else that they're testing you so you better correct them. Normally, most of the time it's just information. Figure out what they're trying to tell you. But with a young Horse, it's natural for them. And if your older Horse is never learned healthy boundaries, and I'm not talking about a three-year-old cuz they're still young and they will test you. That is true, you know, well up until around the age of four.

Caroline Beste (1h 32m 4s):
So testing will naturally go away between two and four. This just depends on their environment and who's raising them. Are you raising them? Is a healthy herd raising them? So socialization and learning what's acceptable in that herd of two or herd of of Horses is really key. But you can change that. You can change it by teaching your Horse, okay, hey, stop pushing on me like that. Or Why are you pushing on me? Should be the first question. And maybe it's just something they've learned. But normally it's, it's an expression. Everything is the Horse trying to tell you something.

Caroline Beste (1h 32m 48s):
So Developing, Good, Habits begins everywhere and in every interaction with your Horse. So just like a young child or puppy, we are teaching them how to be in our world and interact with us all the time. So it's a conscious decision, you know, it's not just like, Hey, I said keep outta my space. And you walk on good luck with that. You're either gonna create fear and they're never gonna come in your space like cocoa. Yep. The little wild guy you got. Or could be for many reasons he doesn't come, doesn't want anything to do with people. It's just horrible. Or they're gonna right back in your face again. Again like Luke and Luke is nine or 10, but has never been taught.

Caroline Beste (1h 33m 30s):
That is beautifully put. And Luke is a beautiful Horse. Yeah, but has never been taught. Here's a nine or 10, nine or 10 year old. I think he's nine. But he's never been taught to attention to me. You know, I just asked you in, I'm teaching you, I don't like you in my space when you just barrel right into me. I do like you in my space when you're soft and you're looking at me and you're engaged and we're connected. But I don't like you when you just blow right through me because you're gonna end up running me over. So last but not least, I'm gonna leave you guys with this question. Cause I get this often, especially with my students. I'm so afraid of messing my Horse up.

Caroline Beste (1h 34m 9s):
Well that's why you have my program and you have me to help support and guide you. But also the program teaches you how to really listen to yourself and your Horse. So you have a lot of autonomy and, and independence. And you learn how to trust yourself, trust your intuition, and trust your Horse. And so I appreciate when you say you were afraid and you don't wanna mess up your Horse, but if you don't try, you're never gonna gain the experience that is needed to, to really understand where you need to be for your Horse. And so I re I understand and it's, and I also wanna say it's good to be afraid because it makes you conscientious, right?

Caroline Beste (1h 34m 53s):
It makes you more concerned about not screwing up your Horse instead of going, I'm not afraid, you know, I'm just gonna march right in there. And, and you know, and I'm serious about that because you know, I have a lot of confidence and overall I have a lot of confidence. There's things I'm not confident about. Believe me, I have my insecurities like, like everybody else. But overall I'm pretty confident. And when I got back into Horses, I had, I was the opposite. I was like, I'm not afraid I'm gonna jump right into this. I can't wait to get into this. And, and, and that was a great attitude for a learner. I wasn't afraid to learn, but it also meant I wasn't afraid to make mistakes. I didn't realize that at first, okay?

Caroline Beste (1h 35m 34s):
Cuz my ego was pretty big. And so I didn't wanna make any mistakes. What I didn't learn is that all of those mistakes I made were amazing opportunities of learning that developed me into the person and teacher I am today. And so it's, it's, it's that mindset again in attitude because in the beginning I was a lot different than I am right now. I had that confidence, I had that drive, I'm like, I'm gonna go in there and get it done. But I was pushing and plowing right through and I wasn't paying attention to my Horses and I wasn't being taught to either trust me. But I wasn't paying attention to my Horses telling me, giving me so much feedback, especially legend, well just legend was my true guide when I got back into Horses.

Caroline Beste (1h 36m 20s):
Cuz Smokey and Sundance were so damaged. And I knew I, that's, I didn't know what to do, you know? So I took a lot more time and was more careful with the two of them where with legend, I wasn't as careful and, and he had enough ego for a Horse and personality for everyone that knew Laylay to put me in my place and knock me down. Not physically, but he wore my, I always say this only one Horse that ever broke me, and that was legend. And I needed to be broken so I could rebuild. He didn't break me physically, he broke me mentally.

Caroline Beste (1h 37m 2s):
And I needed that. You know, I, I spent a lot of time crying and a lot of frustration and, and I need, and I personally needed that. So don't be afraid. Don't be afraid. That's all I have to say. You're not gonna mess 'em up if your heart's in the right, right place. Especially. And

Emily F. (1h 37m 21s):
If I can add that Caroline really quick

Caroline Beste (1h 37m 24s):
Is yes,

Emily F. (1h 37m 26s):
For anybody who doesn't know my backstory, basically I came back into Horses like everybody does, wanting Horse, wanting to be in Horses, grew up riding all of that. But I realized very quickly nobody truly is teaching you how to be a Horse person, woman, man, that it's, they want to do it for you, wanna make it quick, easy so that you can do the things that you wanna do. Ride show all of that. I got back out of Horses because of that. And then I found the mastery membership and the Dow and Caroline and very quickly realized this approach is teaching you how to be a Horse woman man person. It's teaching you how to think, how to help your Horse and How to Problem solve.

Emily F. (1h 38m 10s):
Not just for your Horse, but for yourself. So just like Caroline discussed in her experience and having to go through this personal development with her Horses, this process teaches you to do that. And it really teaches you how to help your Horse. So even if you experience a new challenge, you're going to be able to at least problem solve enough to make, get you guys safe. And then you call Caroline crying like I have done many times and say this just happened, what do I do? But it gives you that ability to become a good leader for yourself and your Horse. I, in my personal opinion, I don't think there's anything that I've seen that really does that. So that you are able to learn with your Horse, you're able to teach them and develop that connection and relationship that, you know, we most people want, but don't know how to get

Caroline Beste (1h 38m 59s):
It carries through to writing. Yeah. Thank you. Well, thanks. Yeah, I mean it's, that's why I created this because it certainly wasn't around when I was searching and I still haven't found anything, you know, like my program obviously. But it is my apprenticeship program, you know, people that, that get this, this this was created for, for the, you know, the young women that came to me that wanted to learn how to develop their Horses and didn't realize that this, it was also developing themselves. Yep. And then I put it online so anybody from you know, anywhere in the world now can access this way. I'm teaching you how to do it now. You know, you're not just learning quick fixes, you're learning this way of being the Tao of Horsemanship is a way of being.

Caroline Beste (1h 39m 45s):
It's a, it's a way of taking your essence, your presence, your being into the relationship you share with your Horse in all the work you're gonna do together. And then of course it, it changes you too, you know, and it, and it affects all of your relationships, not just your four-legged. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. So yeah, so real quick, I had two quick questions and then we're gonna talk about cocoa and then we gotta go quick question was from one of our mastery membership students. And so she has a seven year old with limited exposure and handling. He's so curious, not much fear in him, but he is also very buddy sour now too.

Caroline Beste (1h 40m 26s):
So I think Linda, you probably got a lot, you will get a lot out of this podcast. And, and of course she has the, I'm pretty sure Linda, you're a mastery membership student, so you have everything you need at your fingertips to help Fonzi learn, you know, everything he needs to learn. And, and he's seven now, so he's right there. He is ready. And then the more you develop with Fonzi, he will have autonomy, a healthy level of autonomy. He won't be so lost in, in Buddy Sour and plus he'll, you know, you're gonna make him whole, he's gonna feel really good being in in the relationship with you. So the buddy sour, you know, Horses get attached, you know, I, my Horses are very attached, but if I take them away, they are attached to me.

Caroline Beste (1h 41m 15s):
If I take one of their friends away, they, they're still, they're attached to their friend. But the key is that you, that they become attached to YouTube. And then we had another question from one of our, our followers on our social media here. Dove Horsemanship, YouTube and Facebook Victoria. She's been asking a question that she has a young Horse that's super confident with everything she has shown her. And then her husband wanted this young Horse to go into training, I think it's only five, this mayor. And so she put the Horse into 60 days of training and now she's a wreck under saddle.

Caroline Beste (1h 41m 57s):
So, but fine on the ground. And my big, my big answer to that, and I say big cuz it's, it's not easy, is if you're, if your Horse is messed up under saddle, they're a mess on the ground. You just haven't figured it out yet. You don't know enough because my writing foundation program starts on the ground and it builds to the writing and it, and it builds in a way that you can easily backtrack. It's all inclusive, meaning everything you need to know is right there. So if by the time something goes wrong in the writing part of the program, you can always backtrack and fix it.

Caroline Beste (1h 42m 37s):
But nine outta 10 times, there won't be anything wrong by the time you ride because you're learning the step-by-step process of how to develop your Horse mentally, you know, holistically, mentally, emotionally, and physically so that you get permission to get on and you don't ride unless you have permission. So for me right now, I don't have that problem. I mean I haven't had that problem in years. But let's say, let's say I go to get on one of my Horses and they pin their ears or they don't wanna come and get me. It's one of two things. One, there's something physically going on. Like they've got ulcers, levy, and I'm talking about Levy specifically or Sundance years ago when she said, oh my back is done, my arthritis is done.

Caroline Beste (1h 43m 24s):
Then I had her checked out an al an x-rayed and ultrasound to, to see the arthritis all over. So they're always gonna tell you what's going on if you listen and if it's, if you're too thickheaded or ego or arrogant to listen. And I'm not picking on Victoria at all. It could be any of us. Believe me, I've been there, that was legend for me. They're gonna get loud. And so your, your poor Horse is now a wreck under saddle. You can fix all that but it won't get fixed by riding cuz all you're gonna do is re-traumatize. It's something different than going to therapy. A lot of the new therapy is really awesome these days because it's not the old therapy, the old traditional therapy where you would go and talk about your problems for years on end.

Caroline Beste (1h 44m 12s):
Because every time you talk about your problem, you're actually reinitiating the trigger. You're reinitiating the memory, reinitiating the trauma which reinitiate the trigger. It's no different than a traumatized riding Horse. You think you're gonna fix it by riding. You're just reinitiating the trigger and the trauma. You gotta backtrack and go back to the ground and do it in a way that I've created that is gonna full circle figure out how to make things at least 75% better. So that when you do do get permission to get on your Horses, gonna trust you, connect with you and know that they can have a conversation with you so that when they do get triggered, it's a minimal trigger.

Caroline Beste (1h 44m 55s):
You're both, you're paying attention and you know how to meet that need immediately. I mean this shit's deep. So there is no one, there's no quick fix for a traumatized riding Horse. You gotta go back to square one and build that level of trust and connection and communication so that when the Horse is uninsured and it'll never be that unsure again cuz you're gonna get it to a place where, you know, it would go from zero to hero. It might go zero to 10, but you can have a conversation about it and you can reassure that Horse now it's powerful. Okay, so let's talk about cocoa real quick.

Emily F. (1h 45m 36s):
Yes. Yeah, so Coco is the newest addition to our farm here at True Connection Horse Farm. And he is a seven year old, we'll say wild cause he's been, he was wild domestic Mustang. Yeah, Mustang since he was two. So we had been looking for another addition. I started off wanting to really find something my husband could learn, like just get confident riding on, which of course in the whole approach we take doesn't mean anything.

Caroline Beste (1h 46m 12s):
It's always that we go look for riding up with a tra a trauma case. I know. Yes. You

Emily F. (1h 46m 19s):
Know. So, you know, I, I looked and nothing felt right and then we had our clinic and we met Coco, the rescue brought him to my, to my farm for the clinic and he just kind of spoke to us. We saw, you know, in his eyes like he's in there, the pain, you know, that he's not completely gone. That he just needs time and so they put him up Yeah. For adoption. And I reached out and we had conversations over a couple of weeks cuz they, you know, they were trying to do good by him by not just giving him to anybody because they knew that would set him up for failure.

Emily F. (1h 46m 60s):
That he was not a Horse. That no, there's a nobody could take.

Caroline Beste (1h 47m 4s):
Yeah. I'm gonna interrupt cuz there's a couple of points that, you know, I I'm a myth buster, you guys know I'm a pioneer and there, you know, there's some things, it's like one of the things we were told about, you know, during the clinic and he was a sample Horse. Yes. So that I could, I could demonstrate my method with, but I certainly wasn't there to prove anything or to make anything happen. It was really just, he was one of several Horses that I worked with and he and I was able to really just dive into the, you know, reading the Horse and understanding where he was coming from and respecting Yes.

Caroline Beste (1h 47m 44s):
His threshold and working with energy and that was really all I did with this Horse, which did not impress the, the rescue founder at all. You know, she, for whatever reason. So she was not impressed that we really made any breakthrough or I made any breakthrough with this little guy. And what can you do when he absolutely doesn't wanna come to you Yeah. Runs from you. Yeah. Is, is just frozen and you go to touch him and he just, you know, spooks in place. It's like you electrocute him, you know, he is very obedient, but he is petrified. And a lot of it, you know, a lot of people will talk about where the Horse comes from or it's bloodlines and, and I'm not gonna dispute a lot of that.

Caroline Beste (1h 48m 28s):
There's a lot of truth to bloodlines in this, this particular bloodline, I'm no expert on Mustangs. The, the founder of this rescue said that it, it is a, a harder Horse, you know, the instincts are stronger, the wild

Emily F. (1h 48m 43s):
Instinct isolated I guess where the heart is, they tend to be more isolated so they don't have as much interaction with people, with humans of humans and Yeah.

Caroline Beste (1h 48m 53s):
And, and it's, it's cool cuz they do learn from each other. Even though you have all these different bands of wild Horses and different wild Horse herds from different states and areas in the state. They, they communicate and they learn from each other. And, and that's what, you know, we're saying right now is that this particular band of hit what that he belonged to was, like Emily said, more isolated, less, you know, contact with humans, less association. And, and so that's self-preservation. That instinct is really strong. Yeah. And these guys, I, I had an experience with one of the, the wild Chi ponies that was Italian that I ended up rescuing at the age of four, three or four Oh my god.

Caroline Beste (1h 49m 37s):
And, and Thunder. And he too had that really strong wild instinct. Yeah. And, and he looked like he actually actually had wild Mustang in him because they'll do that with the Tik ponies. So they don't, they thin out the, the bloodlines. They'll bring in only three, three specific breeds. Quarter Horse, Mustang and Arabian. They'll only bring in those three to mix with the Cik and he, oh my God, he looked like smaller build than leg with a Manan and four lock like out to here and just beautiful and wild. Carol ended up buying him from me after I spent about a year and a half with him, and of course got him gelded.

Caroline Beste (1h 50m 21s):
But he, you guys, when I got him Gelded, he spent six months in my round pen and, and damaged half the panels. And this was 60 foot round pen because my round pen, like all my, like this one, they're always in the middle or in my training area. And, and so I was starting to allow my herd of Horses to get around him to socialize him and he would jump body slam. And you know, here he was 14 hands and, and I always had the highest round pen you could buy, which is like the one I have now, Emily. Yeah. So if I'm eight it's like 10 foot. Yeah, I think 10 foot high.

Caroline Beste (1h 51m 2s):
Yeah, it's high. He would get to the top and, and he would just almost jump it and, and body slam it crushed, he crushed half my round pen. I kept having to replace panels and he crushed half of it in a, a like a three month period because I kept working with him. Yeah. Trying to socialize him. And he would just go after the geldings to get to the mayor. And that's, so there is truth to that. And if you don't understand the bloodlines to the best of your ability or allow the Horse to tell you, I didn't know anything about this when I worked with, with Thunder. I just knew that this is what I was working with and this was my first wild Horse experience.

Caroline Beste (1h 51m 46s):
Yeah, of course. I had to be crazy. Right. And then I, I got two of them together. I got two little stallions together. Bandit was a little brown and white, typical Cig, brown and white where Thunder was a blood day. And, and Bandit was half the size pony size. And as daal as, I mean I had him in 30 days. They, they were maybe Thunder was four or five and Bandit, they were about the same age. Four or five had him in about 30 days where you could, you were on him, you could walk around. And then he got sold to, he wasn't afraid of anything. This girl came out. Yeah. And he did not get sold to a student. He got sold to somebody locally who was gonna use him on in birthday parties.

Caroline Beste (1h 52m 28s):
He wasn't afraid of anything. No exposure to, to crazy stuff, but wasn't afraid of anything. So you have two completely different bloodlines and personalities. So there is truth to that, but it's a shame that we don't take the time to appreciate where the Horse is. Yeah. You don't even have to know the experience, but just know, man, this Horse is shut down or, or cold or hostile or standoffish or you know, learn how to read them. Yeah. And then what's, you know, what's appropriate that's gonna help.

Emily F. (1h 53m 0s):
He was, you know, the background that I have on him is, is he was rounded up when he was two as part of the b l m at a te I think Fort Worth Texas, but in Texas and was adopted at that point. I, we don't know a lot about the person that adopted him then My, my assumption would be just like anybody else that wants to adopt a wild Mustang, they're looking probably to try to show what they can do, train him, do the normal stuff and then, well

Caroline Beste (1h 53m 30s):
The one, the one trainer real quick that she the founder likes. Yeah. The last trainer he was at where he did great according to her under Saddle. Yeah. Or he did of Horse did great with this guy under saddle. The guy is standing on his back, sends me a picture of the Mustang in, you know, bridle and saddle and he's standing on his back. I'm like, what? Whatever.

Emily F. (1h 53m 57s):
Yeah, I

Caroline Beste (1h 53m 58s):
Hate that.

Emily F. (1h 53m 58s):
And he ended up at the rescue because the girl that bought him or took him out of the B l m then ended up selling or giving him to another girl who at that point, supposedly he became aggressive and she became afraid of him. And one of the things as I'm listening to the podcast today, alls I can think about is how he ca he was communicating. I don't know what happened. I don't know the details, you know, hopefully she didn't actually get hurt. But yeah, he's probably at this 0.3 years old, you know, somewhere in the three-year-old range cuz he was with the rescue for four years and he is seven. So he is probably screaming with everything he has that he's being over faith.

Emily F. (1h 54m 42s):
He's unsure. He's afraid. Yeah. And nobody's listening to him because it's about the people. And so he ends up at the rescue, which, you know, they sent over the years, he went to different clinics, they tried different things. He did go to this trainer for I think 60 day 30 or 60 days, might have been 90 days somewhere in there. 60

Caroline Beste (1h 55m 8s):
I think. 60

Emily F. (1h 55m 9s):
60. Yeah. I do too. And so that is where, you know, like Caroline just said he was ridden the, you know, all these things because people are thinking, okay, we wanna make him a riding pony. That's what people want Horses for. And nobody at any point truly gave him the opportunity just to be a Horse, to decompress, to process everything he'd been through. I will say, you know, at the rescue, they definitely loved him or or loved him. They definitely, you know, did everything they could to try to help him and, but you know, they're, they have a lot of Horses and it's just, he's the kind of Horse that is going to take time probably years.

Emily F. (1h 55m 55s):
And he's seven. He's still so young. Yeah. He's, he's still young. So young and the, the founder and I had a lot of conversations and I just reiterated with her over and over. I don't care about riding him. I don't care if I ever ride him. I don't care. Yeah. If he is just a pastor pet, because we get, that's where we get and he's happy and he's content and he's just wants to be loved on. That's fine. But we, I really had to go over that with her because most people, and this is the problem with the hor with the equine industry, Horse industry, they want to be able to ride, they wanna be able to prove, look at me, look what I got him to do. And so now we've had him since Friday, which was such an emotional rollercoaster for us.

Emily F. (1h 56m 40s):
And, you know, bringing a, bringing a Horse into my family, I'm gonna probably cry, is not something I take lightly. Maya and Myora are my heart in, in, you know, doing. That's not something we, we did lightly. And he truly has a forever home here. Like no matter what, he's not going anywhere. Like we will figure this out and we'll give 'em the time. But since Friday his, we made a little area for him because if he went in the big pasture, we would never catch him. So we made him in a beautiful little area. We had friends come and help us, which was fantastic. And so he's in there and he's next to Luke and Maple, which are the two Horses that are boarding with us and are re you know, I've been helping restart in the meth in the do of horsemanship.

Emily F. (1h 57m 31s):
And he immediately wanted to connect with them. He immediately was concerned about them. And over, it's not even been a week he has him and Luke, who's the, the gelding in there have, and Luke was the one we were kind of joking about that his just goofy, outgoing. But him and Luke have become friends and he looks for Luke. Yeah. And we've watched him, even though I, he doesn't want me to touch him. He will, like if I put the bucket down or the hay and step back, he'll come over. He will stand in front of us and eat. You know, so things were, there's curiosity, there's desire that he's not so far gone.

Emily F. (1h 58m 12s):
We see that and we're honoring that for him. But we've watched him relax. We've watched him being in an environment where there's not a lot of different Horses that he's trying to balance their energies and whatever traumas and whatever they no stress. There's no stress. There's no stress. We're not forcing our would I love to touch him right now. Oh my God. Yeah. I'm dying to groom him. I'm dying to kiss his little adorable face, but I'm not gonna force it on him, him because then he will never come to me. And there's, you know, a lot of people don't believe he can get any better than what he is now and Yeah. Yeah. I don't, which breaks my heart that makes me want, that just brings tears to my eyes because he's not happy.

Emily F. (1h 58m 57s):
He's shut down, he's scared, he's insecure because yes, he has the natural instincts, but he is also pairing that with the trauma from people. And he hasn't been given the opportunity to process all that. And he's licking, chewing, you know, being in this environment. He, I've watched him lick chew. He's, you see him try to,

Caroline Beste (1h 59m 18s):
There's a lot of imbalances. Yeah. You mean any just like people, he has a lot of imbalances. He, you know, she said he can't socialize. Yep. He can't connect with people. He doesn't know where to be with horses. Yeah. And so much of that will, will fix itself. Yeah. When, when he can feel more balanced and he Exactly. And so part of what you're, and you're trying to say, and that's what you learned in the method and what you're able to give him is an environment that's gonna support that unwinding process for him. Yes. An environment that's gonna support the rebuilding process for him. And so much of, of what he needs in any Horse like him that has trauma is a need to feel safe in their environment.

Caroline Beste (2h 0m 1s):
And, and, and if, and you know, we talked about safety already. You know, safety's an emotional thing, but it's an environmental thing. It's a social thing. Yeah. And so if, if he has constant trauma and stress and a lot of people have this in their boarding facilities and you, before you guys bought your farm, you know, you experienced this stress Yeah. Your Horses it would, it would affect your Horses, you know, being in stressful environments. It's just the nature of Horses and their nervous systems connecting. Yeah. So this giving him a chance has to start a real chance, has to start in the right environment. Yes. And and that's what he has with you guys. And and that's what I always provide when Horses come here, is that they've got the right environment with socialized Horses who are waiting, you know, waiting to, to be, to be whatever they need to be for this, for the Horse.

Caroline Beste (2h 0m 52s):
So that's a great place to start. And then you guys are also supporting that personally in the way you handle him and giving him the space and time to just decompress and naturally let his guard down. And then, you know, where whenever that time is and I'm gonna be there helping you, you know, learn where, when that timing is appropriate to, to take it to the next stage. Like, okay, you've had x amount of time to decompress. We start seeing, you know, good behaviors, good, good ways of being together. Not behaviors, but just good ways of being together. It, he needs that consistency to feel safe too.

Caroline Beste (2h 1m 32s):
He needs to know that you guys are gonna show up the same way every day, not expect anything or push him right now. And, and when, when he can trust that. And that's what we're gonna also talk about in film. And as we chronic, I keep saying like chronicle, like do like, you know, journal him. Yeah. Then, you know, we'll, we'll know. Cuz it'll be more obvious when he's ready to say, Hey, I'm ready either to engage or I'm stuck. You know, either, either one. Either he's gonna say, I'm ready to engage or, you know, it's three months now and and we haven't gotten any farther.

Emily F. (2h 2m 8s):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and

Caroline Beste (2h 2m 10s):
Either, either way that's the time to say, okay, it's time to take it to the next. Yeah. Maybe we just need to push him out of that comfort. And it is a threshold until we can make that breakthrough, which is often with triggered traumatized Horses make that breakthrough where he goes, oh my God, oh my God, it's too hard to try. But wow, you know, you led me down that rabbit hole and wow, I had no idea. It could be this good. Yeah. And that's not an overnight sensation. It never is. No, it, it's B layers. And, and he's gotta get to that point where, you know, he has to make that positive association. We do our job, but it's gotta click for him too.

Caroline Beste (2h 2m 50s):
And that's where you just don't know how long it's gonna take. And that's the beauty is he's not being, he's not, he's not either being forced into a 30 or 60 day fix it program. He's not being put with, you know, anyone with a, with an ego that's like, oh, I get to work with this. I'll change it, you know, I'll change this wild Horse and you're not getting paid for it so there's no pressure. You know what I mean? It's your Horse now so there's no pressure on you or, you know, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Emily F. (2h 3m 20s):
He's

Caroline Beste (2h 3m 21s):
Have bad when they have that kind of pressure, like they're trying to turn these Horses Right. And get 'em out and they've only got so much money to invest in a, in a trainer. So it, it's,

Emily F. (2h 3m 33s):
It's hard. Yeah. It's hard. And it's, we're really, you know, I, I said to Caroline and people, other friends that he really was meant to come here cuz no part of this, once we made, once we made the decision felt, I didn't normally, like I, I tend to second guess, you know, if any, when we bring new animals in. Cause I always worry about the dynamics and you know, I love the dynamics we have here and we don't feel that way with him at all. And you know, the last however many days it's been, we've watched just the environment change him. You know, he does these cute shaking, trying to release that are really tight. It's just kind of cute to watch cuz you can see it almost.

Emily F. (2h 4m 16s):
You think he, I wanna let go, but I'm not sure I'm not ready, but I'm gonna try. And he's yawning. He is, he was standing.

Caroline Beste (2h 4m 25s):
That is

Emily F. (2h 4m 25s):
Huge. It's, he's standing along the fence line, you know, he's completely dropped com just relaxed. He's doing his little shakes, he's trying to yawn and it is just, his

Caroline Beste (2h 4m 37s):
Head is low. It's beautiful,

Emily F. (2h 4m 40s):
Soft. And I can see that, I can see, you know, when I first approach, he'll look at me and I come in just like I will to, you know, feed him and you just can kind of watch and he'll get curious and he'll check out. He's playing peekaboo around the side of the running this morning. But I can see when he shifts and when he starts to think and gets out of this sympathetic and into it and we're just honoring that, you know, and giving him the chance

Caroline Beste (2h 5m 8s):
To Yes.

Emily F. (2h 5m 9s):
Figure it out. To

Caroline Beste (2h 5m 10s):
Do he Yeah. To let him do what he needs to do. Yeah, absolutely. See how much of it can just naturally happen through the right environment and the right approach, the right approach, which has nothing to do with training, has nothing to do with training right now.

Emily F. (2h 5m 23s):
And, and that's the part that is the heart was hard. The hardest to try to convey is that this very different and to just give us the chance, like let you know.

Caroline Beste (2h 5m 35s):
It would write over the head though. Yeah. Because that's what I was doing during the symposium with him was here's an approach, there's no, I'm not gonna make significant changes. But if you know what you're looking for, which most people don't Yeah. You'll see all the subtleties and the shifts in him when he's given the right approach. Yeah, yeah. It's cool. So cool. Yeah, I can't, yeah,

Emily F. (2h 5m 59s):
We're excited to share, you know, and obviously Caroline's gonna be there to mentor me and help me and, and Coco's gonna challenge us in, in different ways than my two Horses do now. And I'm excited for that. And even now and my poor husband who wants to coddle and love everything, you know, he's like, babe, I feel so bad. Like he just wants to be with his friends or you know, I just want, and I'm like, do not, and he's not going. But like we've had to have those conversations cuz he's, you

Caroline Beste (2h 6m 25s):
Know, he's not letting him loose,

Emily F. (2h 6m 27s):
You know, I was like, we'll never catch him. And so it's challenging us in other ways too.

Caroline Beste (2h 6m 33s):
No, and it's not even the catching part. It's, it's, you don't want him in a big environment where he can make the choice to avoid you. Yeah. So you don't, so this is where you're, you're creating the environment. You're, you're, first of all, you're just, you're, you're creating, you've already have a wonderful environment for him to be in, but you're taking his little pen, which isn't that little cuz he was living in a small round pen. He actually has a, you know, a run-in shelter and he had a little bit of grass, but he is eaten that probably. But you've, you've confined him enough so that he has room, plenty of room, but he, he can't, he can't avoid you. Yeah. You don't, he you don't want him out in a big pasture where he can purposely avoid you because you're not gonna make any progress.

Caroline Beste (2h 7m 22s):
Yeah.

Emily F. (2h 7m 23s):
This

Caroline Beste (2h 7m 23s):
Is where it's yeah.

Emily F. (2h 7m 25s):
Space where like when I go in he can watch me and if he wants to stand back, he can like, we can respect his needs, but like you're saying, Caroline, he can't, I'm not trying to catch him in a four acre pasture. That would never happen. And then we're not able to give him the opportunity to get to know us. Yeah. Because right now his instinctual and, and all of that is so strong and, and the fear, cuz that's what I see when I see him as a Horse who's just scared. He's just scared. But he will come for alfalfa. He will come up to us and not, you know, if you move, he'll, he'll back up, but he will come very close.

Caroline Beste (2h 8m 5s):
Remember what I told you when, when Lando came to me, you know, to accelerate this, you can, I would not feed him unless you, you know, you're allowing it, but he's not, he wasn't, he's not wild like Lando was when it came to me. So you could, you could accelerate this, like I said by just, here's the mounting block. I'm coming in, sitting on the mounting block and here's a bucket of alfalfa and it's right between my legs. If you really want the alfalfa, you're gonna, I won't touch you, I won't touch you, I won't try to hand you, but it is right here. So you have to get right here or right, right in front of me. I mean, or or maybe five feet and then it's three feet and then it's right in front of me.

Caroline Beste (2h 8m 47s):
You could, you know, create that environment where you are forcing him to get closer to you, but you're giving him choice. Yes. He's, he can leave, he can decide how long he wants to stay. He has plenty of choice, but you're still creating that environment to, to expediate this a little bit. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Emily F. (2h 9m 8s):
And that is kind of my plan. I just, with it being, it feels like he's been here longer cuz it just feels right and good and it seems to be feeling the same for him. That's kind of my plan. And I just, right now, this first week, maybe two weeks or however long, giving, not pushing him so much that he doesn't want to, that I over, you know, I over face them too much right away. But yeah. So I'm excited.

Caroline Beste (2h 9m 38s):
Oh, you okay? Yeah, I'm here. Yeah. You know, my water pressure, you know, in the guest house here, whenever someone's filling up the Yeah. The only water, it's not automatic and it's, can you hear that?

Emily F. (2h 9m 50s):
I can't but I, I know what the, there's

Caroline Beste (2h 9m 52s):
Something's going on with the water pressure, but nobody's here about me, so I don't, we're good to go. I'm like, what the heck? Alright, well we better wrap it up. Love. Yes. So thank you. Excited. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for, for co-hosting and yeah, anytime. I can't wait to let everybody know that where they can see, they can see the, the journey of cocoa on your Facebook page for your farm, right?

Emily F. (2h 10m 18s):
Yeah, so we, the, our farm is true connection, Horse farm and training. We are a student and apprentice of the Dow Horsemanship. So that's in working with Caroline. I just want that to be very clear. We're not creating our own training program here, we're doing in partnership. We haven't quite figured the right word, but helping other people with that. But yes, so we have a Facebook page we just launched, we have Instagram and then we'll be start setting up our YouTube channel. So we'll be posting on that, sharing, hosting, events, clinics, you know, just really helping create a community and being a satellite for the da Horsemanship and awesome whatnot.

Emily F. (2h 11m 4s):
Yeah, everybody can go check us out there and solo and

Caroline Beste (2h 11m 9s):
Awesome. Well thank you everyone. I hope this podcast was good for everybody and you guys know where to find me if you need any assistance with anything and everybody, God bless and may you always be one with horses. Thank you. Love you. Thanks hun. Okay. Bye everybody. See you next week. Oh, real quick, next week we have guest Speaker Dr. Rob Silver, and we are gonna be doing healing your Pets with Integrative Medicine. So that's next week. All right. Interesting. Okay. All right buddy. Have a great rest of your week and thank you.

Caroline Beste (2h 11m 49s):
Bye hon. Catch up with you. Bye. Thanks, bye.