Healing Your Pets with Integrative Medicine - Guest speaker Dr. Silver

Another famtastic podcast with nationally recognized integrative vet, Dr. Rob Silver!

You can learn more about Dr. Silver's knowledge and products from the following websites:
http://nurseyourpet.com/
http://nurseyourpet.com/blog/
https://www.wellpetdispensary.com/
https://www.realmushrooms.com/ 

He is offering a 25% discount. Please use code: tao25

It's good for one use and for 25% off of anything in the www.wellpetdispensary.com, and is non-expiring.

More about Dr. Silver...

Dr. Silver educated us on the healing powers of medicinal mushrooms amongst many other areas of pet care from diets, health to longevity.

Dr. Robert Silver graduated in 1982 from Colorado State’s College of Veterinary Medicine. He established one of the first integrative vet clinics in the USA in Boulder, CO in 1993. 

Since then, Dr. Silver has become a nationally recognized expert in veterinary herbal and nutraceutical medicines, medicinal mushrooms, veterinary CBD and cannabis therapeutics. He has adjunct faculty positions at Lincoln Memorial University, College of Veterinary Medicine, and Chi University, a College of Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine. 

“You have to grow from the inside out. None can teach you, none can make you spiritual. There is no other teacher but your own soul.” - Swami Vivekananda

May you always be one with your horse,
 Caroline

Transcript

Caroline Beste (1m 4s):
You are listening to Everything, Horses and more Podcast with me, your host, Caroline Beste. I'm the founder of my Horsemanship method, a pioneer in horse training and development, and a true advocate of the horse. I bring an intuitive and educated eye along with an experienced and intelligent perspective to understanding both Horse and human nature and behavior. My experience in skill sets are the cornerstone to my worldwide success in training methodology. My experience with horses as intelligent sentient beings is what inspired me to create my highly acclaimed and proven training method. consensual partnership training for Horses and humans. A model I pioneered in 2008.

Caroline Beste (1m 47s):
Consensual Partnership training provides a comprehensive and impressive curriculum teaching horse owners how to fully develop their horses using a holistic, empathetic, and natural process. My training system teaches you how to achieve true partnership with horses and without the use of pain, excessive pressure, dominance, force or coercion, In. Addition to being a world class trainer for both Horses and people. I'm an artist, author, entrepreneur, speaker, radio show host, licensed working equitation trainer and riding foundation specialist. I offer one of the largest and most comprehensive online educational platforms, the Tao of horsemanship, where I host a variety of courses produced and personally taught by me and my amazing school masters in.

Caroline Beste (2m 36s):
addition to sharing what I know in my in person training and online courses. I invite special guests and students each month to my radio show, Everything, Horses & More! Podcast. This platform allows us to engage with all of you and share our very personal and transformational journey with horses. I invite you to listen in and hope you find something that helps inspire you to reach your personal goals and aspirations with your horse. Thank you. And may you always be one with horses.

Caroline Beste (3m 26s):
Welcome back everybody. To Everything Horses and more you know who I am, Caroline Beste, the founder of Tao of Horsemanship and your host for today's podcast. You know who my lovely co-host is, Lydia Primavera. And today. Hi Lydia. Today's Guest speaker is Dr. Rob Silver. Dv. M M s.

Dr. Silver (3m 45s):
Hi.

Caroline Beste (3m 46s):
Hello, Dr. Silver. Welcome. And today's topic is, yeah. Thank you so much. Today's topic is Healing Your Pets with Integrative Medicine. And this is right up our alley. This is so fascinating and so important, and for all of my followers, you know, that I'm always trying to stay on top of things and share the latest in oh, everything, you know, from what I learned, what I experienced, you know, working with my Horses and in every type of facet, you know, the whole holistic approach. So today I'm gonna give you guys a a little background on Dr.

Caroline Beste (4m 28s):
Silver. He graduated in 1982 from Colorado State's College of Veterinary. Medicine He established one of the first integrative vet clinics in the USA, in Boulder Colorado, where you reside today. He established this Integrative clinic all the way back in 1993. Wow. You were a pioneer Since then, Dr. Silver. So am I. So are we Since then? Dr. Silver has become a nationally recognized expert in veterinary, herbal, and nutraceutical medicines. medicinal mushrooms, which we're gonna talk about mushrooms, CBD, and herbs today.

Caroline Beste (5m 9s):
Yes. And Veterinary. Yeah, CBD. I'm very interested in that. In cannabis therapeutics. He has adjunct faculty positions at Lincoln, Memorial University, College of Veterinary Medicine and Chi. University a College of Traditional, Chinese Veterinary Medicine, which is really important to us. We're definitely into that.

Dr. Silver (5m 31s):
Yeah.

Caroline Beste (5m 32s):
Yeah. So this is Well, welcome, welcome. Anything. Thank you.

Dr. Silver (5m 35s):
Thanks for having me today. Yeah, this is, this is special for me. I don't usually get to talk to audiences of, of horse lovers. Mostly it's the dogs that Okay. That I speak with. So it's nice. I Horses are very special to me. They, and I'm glad.

Caroline Beste (5m 51s):
Good. Yes, they're special.

Dr. Silver (5m 53s):
Some information. Oh, this is

Caroline Beste (5m 54s):
Really important. I'm really excited that you, that you, your publicist came to us because this, what we're gonna talk about is so important as a pioneer. You know, you may have been, you've been doing this for a long time, but getting it out there in, into the public awareness is what we're talk what is still new, especially mushrooms. That, that piqued my interest. I'm like, what are you talking about? Mushrooms, CBD oil. You know, I think that's pretty popular here in Ocala because we're a mecca for, for different equine sports and disciplines. Absolutely. and people travel from all over. Yeah. All over the world. My farm is 20 minutes, if that, to the World Equestrian Center.

Caroline Beste (6m 38s):
So that is huge. And they're, they bring in people, you know, from all over the world that fly their Horses in to, to compete and show. And while I'm not interested in that, nor, you know, am I focused on that, the Horses I know for a fact could, you know, especially sport Horses could benefit from what you're going to be talking about today.

Dr. Silver (6m 59s):
Absolutely. Yeah.

Caroline Beste (7m 2s):
This is really important. Okay.

Dr. Silver (7m 6s):
So yeah, you did you have some questions you wanted to get started? Let's, yeah,

Caroline Beste (7m 15s):
So let's, before we dive into the mushrooms of CBD oil and the herbs, how did you get interested in Integrative Veterinary medicine? How did that start?

Dr. Silver (7m 26s):
Well, I'm very success oriented. And after I graduated from vet school in 1982, quite a while ago, I, I was certain that I had learned every skill I needed to do battle with every disease that I would encounter out there in the real world. But after a few years out there, I found there's some problems that Pets get that we just don't have good answers for. And primarily the chronic diseases, chronic pain, diabetes, cushings, epilepsy, cancer, you know, you name it, you know, we know those problems, the skin problems, you know. And, and so I started looking for other answers and I've always had an interest in plants and herbs.

Dr. Silver (8m 12s):
And I had an interest early on in learning about edible plants and doing, you know, backpacking and a survival thing. So I started with herbs, I started to learn about herbs and learned how to identify them and make, make medicines. And I also started learning about diets. And so I started with those two simple things that I could learn from books, because at the time, there really weren't training programs for veterinarians. That was a while ago. And, you know, and so, and I started to apply those little by little in my practice, and I started seeing success and it was encouraging. And I was starting to see some problems that I couldn't treat adequately with drugs or other conventional therapies.

Dr. Silver (8m 53s):
When I switched them to a healthy diet, a a non-processed, you know, diet. I started to see improvements. So that really encouraged me. And, and so everything else that has transpired in my career, Since then was a result of, of that early inspiration. And I've continued my studies in herbal medicine. I'm currently president of the American College of Veterinary Botanical Medicine, which is a group of vet, a very dedicated Veterinary herbalist who are trying to establish a specialty college and an advanced training program for, for herbalist in, in Veterinary medicine. So we're working on that. That's a long process, you know, so, so I've been very actively involved in trying to promote the use of herbal medicine and other non-conventional therapies with my conventional peers.

Dr. Silver (9m 42s):
So I spend a lot of time traveling and speaking at conferences to veterinarians, teaching them why these are legitimate scientifically based therapeutics. They should consider adding on to their conventional therapies. It's not an either or, you know, it's like one of my old, when I was in vet school, we used to, in, in, in January when it was so cold, we'd go riding out the feed lots with like, with our, our sheep, our our sheep clinician. And he, he was full of wisdom, you know, and, you know, and he used to say one of his favorite phrases was Silver, you don't throw the baby out with the bath, with the bath water. In other words, to me what that means is it's not one or the other.

Dr. Silver (10m 25s):
You know, it's not conventional or, or alternative. It's integrating both into using the best from each, for each individual patient's needs. So it might be different. You might treat one patient with the same disease as another patient differently because there's a difference in those patients. Now there's some individuality that needs to be addressed, which will make the treatment more successful. Long-winded answer, that's kinda why I

Caroline Beste (10m 52s):
Beautifully what I'm doing. Thank you. Oh my gosh, we are so excited. Thank you. Especially when you're talking about, you know, cushings and skin issues. You know, I've got a young horse with, with skin issues and I had to take him to u University of Florida. Yeah, you for dermatology. And he's literally, he's allergic to air. I mean, I That's what I said. Yeah. I said, oh, he checks a hundred percent in everything he's allergic to freaking air.

Dr. Silver (11m 18s):
Well, what's, what's what he's inhaling, you know, all the little particulate pollen and things like that. Exactly.

Caroline Beste (11m 25s):
But they didn't even talk about that. No, they didn't talk about that. I meant that. But they just said, oh, that's a good funny way of putting it, Caroline. And I'm like, well, he can't eat anything. And what do you mean he can't eat anything? And he is, how do we know it's, they're, they said, oh, it could be fly the flies and it's the hay and it's the grass. And I'm like, this is really weird. You know, he was born here on my farm, actually, where I bought it. And I'm like, what about pollen? But they didn't even get into that, Dr. Silver, they

Dr. Silver (11m 56s):
Didn't do any kinda testing, any allergy testing to find out what he might be sensitive to. They did.

Caroline Beste (12m 2s):
Oh yeah. I spent a lot of money. They, they, like I said, he tested a hundred percent on everything. And they said, well put him on, we're gonna give him a shot. He was supposed to come back in a year. It's been two years because I'm, he's doing so much better. Trust me. I wanted to see if he would outgrow it along with the work that I do holistically. Sure. Would help his immune system. Yeah. On an emotional level, help his immune system. And, and so they, the biggest thing they said was put him on the, what we take in antihistamine. So he started out with 15 antihistamines a day. I ended up bumping him up to 30 the following year, instead of taking him back.

Caroline Beste (12m 45s):
His skin disorder was about 20% out of a hundred raging, it was down to 20. Now I've weaned him down to 15 again, just frustrating. And they, you know, I'm supposed to take him back for a year for these shots, this shot that this accumulation. They test him and then they, they concoct this shot for him that he only needs once a year. And I'm like, but wait a minute. That's weird. I, like you just said, it's, where's the integration here of all of these things working? And I haven't had the time to look into someone more holistic like you. I'm calling you more holistic. Sure.

Dr. Silver (13m 23s):
Well, I'm, I'm, and as you know, disclaimer, I'm, as I mentioned earlier, I'm, I'm not as knowledgeable as many of the, of, of many of the equine internal medicine problems. I'm just not that knowledgeable as far as what the testing procedures are and what we see commonly in the horse as far as allergies both to food or inhalants. But looking at it with a broad brush and a bigger picture, you know, I'd say there's a mushroom for that. You know, and maybe there's some CBD for that because as natural therapies, they can naturally help to lower the level of inflammation in the body as a whole, which oftentimes with allergies, we gradually increase that level of inflammation as we're continued to be exposed to these same allergens.

Dr. Silver (14m 8s):
So it can naturally sort of lower the level. And there's mushrooms, there's two mushrooms in particular, which have antihistamine effects, that in addition to that, they have immune modulating effects all in the same mushroom. So that's what I, that's that's, you know, not wanting to jump into things, but let's jump into things. That's what I find so fascinating about both mushrooms and, and cannabis. And, and Lydia asked me, well, you'll talk about other herbs, won't you? And I can certainly, but I'm so totally fascinated with these two plants and, and fungi, because each one in and of themself has so many active molecules.

Dr. Silver (14m 51s):
They do so many different things. I'm fond of calling mushrooms and actually cannabis kind of the Swiss army knife, you know, because it has so many tools in it that can be used for so many different things. Sometimes it seems too good to be true. You know, I knew what they say about things that are too good to be true. They probably are not true. But it sometimes seems unusual that a mushroom or a a a plant like cannabis could treat so many different things from epilepsy to behavior, to pain, to itching with the skin, to GI problems, to, you know, to to all of those things.

Dr. Silver (15m 32s):
And, and yet it does because it has such a wide range of activity within the body. Same with mushrooms. You know, we see mushrooms improve immune system function. They can have antihistamine properties, they can be calming, they can promote performance. These are all things we'd like to see in our Horses, wouldn't we? Little bit of calming and improved performance. Not a bad deal, you know, and so I'm, the problem is that we don't have the studies yet. This is such a new thing. And studies take time and they cost money, you know, and usually the only, only funding organizations for these studies are usually the companies that are selling stuff.

Dr. Silver (16m 12s):
And of course, that raised the specter of bias, you know, is there some bias in the study? And so, so we're, so we're kind of working anecdotally to begin with. And I'm working with some equine practitioners who are, who I'm sending samples to and suggesting they try it at a certain dosage and certain Horses with certain conditions to try to figure things out.

Caroline Beste (16m 34s):
I'll take some samples. Yes. We, we can, I'll be one of those.

Dr. Silver (16m 38s):
We can talk about that later. Caroline, you know, after, after, I'll

Caroline Beste (16m 42s):
Promote you. Oh yeah, I'll promote the [---] outta you. I'm all

Dr. Silver (16m 45s):
Specific areas. I'm very interested in one, you know, and ear Horses aren't on the racetrack, but one of the things that's of interest to me is looking at using mushrooms to help with performance, but also to help with the equine bleeders that we see. And so I'm curious about that. We know there's one herb we're already using in Horses for bleeders called, it's a Chinese herb called <unk> that helps with bleeding. But I'm just, I'm, I just, I need to find out more. I need to, you know, use it. So anyway, so that's kind of what, where I'm at with these, with these different approaches.

Caroline Beste (17m 20s):
That is powerful. That is so powerful. Yeah. And I mean, like I told you, Ocala is like one of the world's mecca.

Dr. Silver (17m 28s):
I know Ocala, I've been there, I've been there. And I've worked with,

Caroline Beste (17m 31s):
I've worked with this would

Dr. Silver (17m 33s):
With vets there. Yeah.

Caroline Beste (17m 35s):
This would be a great, great, great to get you out with, with everyone here and, and recognized. So, you know, I don't wanna hog up this podcast, but No, no, just putting it out there, because I know skin may not be a huge issue for a lot of people with their equines it is here in Florida, just cause of the wet conditions and the mold and, you know, the ness. But yeah, Cushings is huge for me. Equine metabolic syndrome with my, my audience. I mean, you know, that's a whole, the whole diabetes thing is just insane with horses.

Dr. Silver (18m 14s):
Well, and, and when we look at the effect of mushrooms, or when we look at the effect of CBD or cannabinoids, cause it's not just CBD. There's C, b G, and, and the only, the only cannabinoid in the cannabis plant that I don't recommend for Horses is T hct HC kind of scares me in a horse. You get a 1200 pound horse on, you know, it's a bit stoned, you know, I don't wanna be around the horse, you know, you know, although, you know, it may, you know, some Horses it may sedate other Horses. It might have an idiosyncratic reaction like locoweed that you're not really looking for. But good point. What we know from studies, from basic studies in a number of different species, we haven't gotten them in the horse yet.

Dr. Silver (18m 58s):
We haven't gotten them in the dog yet, but we know that both mushrooms and CBD help to better regulate insulin in the body. And so we find that it could help a lot with type two diabetics, the whole metabolic syndrome. It's, it's, you know, it's both genetic and acquired and dietary and, you know, it's a number of different, you know, conditions that all come together. So something like a mushroom, which really is a super food. They're very safe. They're not drugs, they're foods. And most of the really potent medicinal mushrooms also are very lovely edible mushrooms as well. I don't know if you enjoy eating mushrooms yourself, but these days we're seeing a lot more, even in the supermarket of this chiaki mushroom, which is originally sourced from Japan, but now there's a whole cottage industry here in the US and people are growing mushrooms and then selling them at the local farmer's market or at the grocery store.

Dr. Silver (19m 55s):
And you know, so the chiaki mushroom has some of the most potent immune modulating anti-cancer metabolic function of any of the mushrooms out there. So, wow. So, so we don't really worry about them. I, I get questions all the time. Am I giving too much? Do I have, you know, can I give it all the time? You know, people are cons and people, understandably, we're, we're I bombarded by so much information? We're bombarded by so many warnings. The pet food recall of 2007 got pet parents super, super paranoid about anything different in the food or in supplements. You know, they're very, you know, very aware of every single ingredient.

Dr. Silver (20m 41s):
So something like mushrooms are very safe. They, they, they can be used with other drugs, with impunity. The only problem we might see is if we have, if they're on anticoagulant therapy, then we worry about the mushrooms then. But most we worry about anticoagulant therapy with almost any herb or drug as well, you know, so, so yeah. So it, so mushrooms can be used very safely in Horses. And I think that they would have a good benefit, although I don't have the scientific evidence. Certainly there's some mushrooms, like the cortis mushroom, which has gotten so much interest with that Netflix horror movie, which is not cortis at all, but it certainly is a cut, cool concept.

Dr. Silver (21m 23s):
Cortis is a, is a fungus that infects insects, and it kind of takes over the insect nervous system and gets the insect to, to, to like an ad to walk to the top of a plant and then chomp onto the top leaf, and then it dies and it releases all those spores. Mushrooms have this innate intelligence. It's amazing. The, the, the ne the Netflix horror movie, if you're not aware of it, hadn't says that this cor deception's fungus takes over the mind of humans and creates zombies. And so it's another zombie apocalypse type of movie, which I absolutely hate that I haven't even seen it, but it, but it's gotten a lot of people's interest. Anyway, the cortis mushroom, which does not grow, we, the, the, the more the real mushrooms, which is the company that I'm Chief Veterinary officer for, that both cultivates these mushrooms and processes them into, into, into standardized products that have standardized potency to them.

Dr. Silver (22m 21s):
They don't grow their cortis on insects, they grow it on rice. But the cortis mushroom is known to have a benefit for endocrine problems such as Cushings. The Cortis mushroom also helps to provide support for the adrenal glands because it's an adaptogen. And adaptogens are compounds that help to support the body through stress, primarily through the stress organ, which is the adrenal gland. So, so yeah, I mean, there's a lot of places that we can go with mushrooms, with horses. We're just waiting, you know, to get a little more evidence. And, you know, before we go to doing studies, that's where I'm working with equine practitioners to get some more evidence as far as the use of these mushrooms for performance and Horses.

Caroline Beste (23m 8s):
So if I understand correctly, you are not gonna be able to, like, can, we can't buy anything from you right now? Like, you're not our source?

Dr. Silver (23m 17s):
Well, no, no, no, no. So let me explain some things. I I wear many hats. Okay. I, I'm Chief Veterinary officer for Real mushrooms, and I believe that's probably how you reached out to me. Through our publicist or whoever's trying to get me lined up for Podcasts. I'm supposed to be doing at least three Podcasts a month for them as a way of helping to promote their products. They've, they've got a very robust online sales. Anyone can go to real mushrooms and they give very good discounting. And it's real mushrooms.com. And real mushrooms sells their mushrooms, not just in capsules, but in pouches that have maybe 45 to 60 grams of just pure mushroom powder in it.

Dr. Silver (24m 0s):
These would be ideally suited for use in the horse. I'm looking to get to make some special equine, large dog types of formulas that would not just have a single mushroom in it that will label for equine and then label how to dose it. For equine. I've developed a dosing, a dosing model to use for all animals, regardless of their weight that, that takes into account their, you know, the, the severity of their condition. And with horses, we know that with herbs, they're very, very sensitive. Horses are, you know, because they're, they're grazers and they're foragers. They've developed a system that can really extract very well, whatever it is.

Dr. Silver (24m 42s):
They're, they're munching on, you know, very little oils out there in, you know, the forage that they have, you know, in pasture. But nonetheless, Horses are able to extract those oils, the fatty acids that they need for their skin and for other problems quite well. I know a, an equine nutritionist who did a study in Horses where he measured blood levels after giving them human doses of fatty of fish oil, human fish oil. And he found that you could give human doses of fish oil to a horse and you could get therapeutic blood levels the same as you would with the human. So from that, I realized that Horses are so sensitive. I did a dosing study in Horses with CBD.

Dr. Silver (25m 22s):
I, I did, I worked with 30 Horses, 10 Horses, and three different stables, three different kinds of stables as well. One was a dressage stable up in Virginia, very high-end Horses, you know, one was a backyard horse stable here in Colorado. And then the other was a bunch of, you know, old broken down farm animals, you know, from one of my holistic vet friends in Indiana. And, and we found that depending on the health of the animal, they need different dosages. You know, the old broken down Horses that had terrible laminitis that, that they were on Butte that seemed to be helping much, they saw benefit at higher dosage levels, you know, for the CBD, the dressage Horses, they didn't take much at all cuz they were in such good shape.

Dr. Silver (26m 8s):
In fact, some of them, you know, started to get, you know, they, they started to get to this point where they were like questioning the commands they were being given cuz they were just kind of going, oh, this feels pretty good. You know, you know, the, the CBD and these things that don't have THC in them, they don't get you stoned, but they do have an effect on the mind. And it's a good effect. It makes the mind more alert, it makes it more settled, it makes it more accepting of, of, of, of, of, of incoming information. So that's one reason why people take CBD at night before bed. Not because it makes you sleepy, but because it settles the mind. That's the part that keeps us from sleeping, is our mind is so busy. So, so I found that, you know, that the dosage for Horses could range all the way from like 25 milligrams, which is a human dosage and quite would be quite low for a 1200 pound horse.

Dr. Silver (26m 59s):
That, that was set, that was satisfactory. You know, some, they had go 50 milligrams that seemed to work better. Many of them weren't able to go twice daily to the stable to medicate them. They just did once a day medication. And we found that still to be working. And just recently last year, we have two studies that were published. One from Davis and one from C S U, both of which did what are called pharmacokinetic studies for CBD and the horse. What they did was they gave the CBD to the horse and then they measured its levels in the blood every 15 minutes to 30 minutes to an hour. Over a period of like 12 to 24 hours, they developed a curve so they could find out how long did it take for the CBD to reach a peak level in the blood, how long did it take for that CBD to die off?

Dr. Silver (27m 50s):
And that also gives us a clue because CBD is being tested for with performance, you know, as a performance enhancing drug. And it can disqualify a horse that's in competition. The, the penalties aren't as great as for T H C, but nonetheless it's still a disqualification. So, so we worry about that. The fact we've found that Horses that get hemp levels of CBD that has THC in it, we call that a full spectrum hemp product. They actually will test positive for the THC as well. So we recommend for Horses that they be given either a broad spectrum CBD, which has the THC removed, but has the CBD and the terpenes and the other minor cannabinoids, or that they get something we call an isolate.

Dr. Silver (28m 38s):
And the isolate is like 99.7% pure CBD. And for some Horses that have more painful conditions, the isolate's a lot less expensive than the broad spectrum. So we, so the, the, the one study that we have published about, about treating pain in a horse that comes outta C S U, they wound up using isolate and they used dosages. I'm talking about dosages of 25 to 50 milligrams. They were using dosages of 150 to 250 milligrams. But they worked in this horse that was painful. And they were able to eventually titrate the dosage down from 250 mgs to like a hundred mgs a day, you know, to keep it, to, to manage it.

Dr. Silver (29m 21s):
So, you know, so, so what we've learned from dosing CBD and dogs and humans and Horses, is that each individual is an individual and they may have different needs horse to horse for what they need as a dosage. And although, especially with a painful horse, you wanna get something on board as soon as possible. I wouldn't consider CBD to be a standalone therapy for pain. We need to use as many tools as we can together at the same time to treat pain. We don't want our Horses to be painful. We don't wanna be painful, we don't want our dogs or children to be painful. Pain is the first thing we wanna take care of.

Dr. Silver (30m 4s):
So CBD alone is good for pain, but not as standalone therapies. I mean, CBD has been shown to be good for pain. A lot of the pain is associated with inflammation. So, so we need to use what we call a multimodal therapy. And I recommend with horses and any animal dogs as well and people that you start with a lower dosage and you give it a week or two to build up on the system. We know it takes about seven to 10 days for the blood to develop a steady state of blood levels of CBD. So I suggest that you start with a dosage that's low because some Horses respond at a low dosage and it can be expensive dosing CBD is still relatively costly even though the CO, the cost is coming down, you know, with, with time and with, you know, increased supply.

Dr. Silver (30m 54s):
But, so I recommend starting at a low dosage, giving it about a week or so, and then double the dosage, start to bring the dosage up and then try that for another week to see if that helps. Because you might have a horse that responds well to a low, to a low dose, why give it more as they, they they, they jokingly call that expensive urine, you know, I mean they're, there's no need for it. They just pee it out. So that's what I think. I'm sorry, where do

Caroline Beste (31m 25s):
We, who do we, yes, who do we consult with? Do we, do we con how do we know what to choose? And definitely how much to give our horse.

Dr. Silver (31m 33s):
Selecting a product can be a challenge. And there are a few companies out there that are specifically providing products for the equine. I have my own website. Speaking of where you get things, you know, I, I, I want my information to be pure information. I don't wanna be connected with some sales pitch, but I know that's kind of what the standard is these days in our culture. So I have my own website, I call it well pet dispensary.com. And on this website I, it's primarily a dog and cat focused website. But on this website I do sell a a, I do sell my own brand of CBD products, which I call Doc Silver Naturals.

Dr. Silver (32m 20s):
And they're CBD blended with something called C B G. And C B G has been found in studies to be about 10 times stronger than CBD as an anti-inflammatory agent and for many other things as well as for calming. So these are THC free, they come, it comes as a very concentrated tincture that has 2,700 milligrams in it of cannabinoids. And that can be used as a tincture just put in, in the mouth. There are some companies that are making pellets for Horses and pellets can be a very good vehicle of administration to the horse because we also know that CBD is better absorbed when it's given with food.

Dr. Silver (33m 2s):
So in a pellet it is food, you know, so they get, so we've seen, there's one study they did where they combined the, they, they compared the blood levels from tincture versus the blood levels from pellets. And they found the pellets gave better absorption of them. There's another type of CBD out there, raw CBD, which is called CBD a and CBD A is even more potent than CBD. It's about as potent as C B G. That's why I'm using the C B G cuz CBD A is not very good tasting, but there's some companies that are taking the raw hemp and pelleting it without heating it first. When they heat the hemp, it, it stop, it becomes processed.

Dr. Silver (33m 43s):
And no longer do you have these acidic cannabinoids in it. And the plant, when it grows naturally it grows these cannabinoids in an acidic form. So you don't get CBD in the plant, you get CBD A, you don't get T H C, you get T H C A and the T H C A because it's acidic, it has a different shape to the molecule, doesn't get you high when it's wrong. So it has to be heated in order to do that. So these, so, but nonetheless, we still don't, we don't wanna take the chance that the CBD A could convert in the product under heat enlightened oxygen to, or the th H C A rather could convert to th hc that could be risky.

Dr. Silver (34m 24s):
So I still recommend looking at, you know, zero T HC or very low levels of T HC in it. So yeah, my website would have that. We also sell the real mushrooms products there. And so do we

Caroline Beste (34m 39s):
Consult you? I guess the question, I'm sorry, excuse me. The question would be, yeah, this is great and we all wanna know, we go to your website, but can do, we'll have to consult with you, am I correct? Like,

Dr. Silver (34m 50s):
Well, I have contact form, so you can certainly use the contact form, reach out to me. Okay. I know most websites, they're really big and automated, but we're kind of just a little family thing and we used to run it outta the house. We've gotten bigger now and my wife works too much. I, and she's too conscientious and so like we got the shipping out of the house. But yeah, no, it's, you know, it it, you can use the contact form also Caroline, I'd like to, to, after this give you a, a discount coupon that your viewers could use for their first purchase there to kind of give them a, an opportunity to try it. I'm sure a lot of your equine attendees also have dogs that might be interested in some of the stuff that I have as well.

Dr. Silver (35m 36s):
But yeah, no, I'm, I'm happy to give advice as best I can. You know, obviously I can't give medical advice that's really not considered to be ethical without a doctor-patient relationship, but I do my best to give advice that's, that works and to safe and usually also advise certain tests or that they go find a holistic veterinarian in their neighborhood that they could work with directly because it's okay, you know, it's, it's still just a, you know, it's not a very, it's not a medical appointment when I'm giving advice like that.

Caroline Beste (36m 7s):
Oh wow. Well that's, we just, I just wanna ask all the right questions cuz I know you're gonna get, I'm gonna get asked them or they're gonna wanna contact you and be like, oh my gosh. Yeah. You know, how do, how do I know, you know, what's the right step or which one to take? And so just knowing to go to your website and I'll put all this information when we're done with this podcast. Yeah. And I promote it the link to my Facebook page. I'm gonna leave your website on there and, and how to contact you and I just wanna make sure that's okay. It's that they contact you directly. Yes,

Dr. Silver (36m 36s):
That's fine. Yeah. And, and so, you know, we talked about some very serious conditions on the horse that aren't super common, although if happens to your horse, it seems pretty common, like Cushings and, and dermatologic problems that are difficult to treat. But you know, there's other more simple things that we could look at using CBD for in the horse that, you know, are everyday things. You know, for instance, we know that CBD could be helpful with conditions like O C D, you know, and so what's an O C D condition of the horse cribbing, you know, so I'm not guaranteeing that it would stop it, but it certainly will help along with other measures you're taking to prevent them from getting into that habit.

Dr. Silver (37m 18s):
You know, loading up to a trailer, some Horses just don't do that very well, no matter how many times you've trained them, this can help settle them a bit. And when you go to competition, like trail rides or things like that, you know, where there's a lot of Horses, a lot of hustle and bustle, some Horses nervous systems just don't do that well in that kind of environment. So it doesn't really slow them down, it doesn't really adversely affect them. If you're not testing for performance drugs in whatever you're involved with, hopefully, you know, it's just maybe just a weekend FUD ride or something, you know, then it's okay to use it. Certainly you don't wanna test positive and I can't suggest that other times, you know, when you're in terms of training with the horse, you know, it maybe it comes up a little sore, maybe it's got a significant problem, it's been to the vets and you need to enforce stall rest.

Dr. Silver (38m 8s):
This could be very helpful just to keep them settled so they'll stay in that stall and not injure themselves because they're impatient, you know, in, in that stall. So I mean, those are some very, very simple things, you know, to look at. Certainly I think minor, minor gait abnormalities, it can be very helpful for those. If it's just a little bit of a tendonitis or something that's not real serious or chronic. I think once we start seeing more pain, you know, I mean I think the early stages of founder, I think it can be very, very helpful even as a standalone. But as that gets worse, as we start seeing rotation of that bone, you know, it's, it becomes one more thing to use as part of that program.

Dr. Silver (38m 54s):
Although we have, yeah, I, you know, with that one stable that we did that dosing study in with the broken down Horses in Indiana, I got a lovely letter from this one horse mother who just was all the, there actually were tears on the letter. She was so happy that the horse was showing some relief from its failure. It must, and that must such a miserable disease. I mean, they're always on their feet. I can't imagine how awful that would be. You know, so, so those are some basic things that you could look at with that. And certainly the idea of maybe the CBD would be helpful with metabolic syndrome or with some of the other metabolic problems we see. I think that's certainly, you know, a possibility as well.

Caroline Beste (39m 35s):
That's am these are amazing. I mean, like, I could just cry because this is the everything you mentioned for all of us that own Horses. These are so common and they're so difficult to treat from traditionally, you know, and really I'm not, yeah,

Dr. Silver (39m 53s):
I'm not trying to say that these are perfect treatments that they're going to take care of the problems animals. I think it's one more thing we can use. You know, some of these traditions are very difficult to treat, some aren't, you know, definitely worth to try to see if it treats well or not, you know, with, with these, and, and that's just the CBD part. The, the, the mushroom part I think is also very, a very important piece. And I think you can put the two together and, and, and they can actually work well together. For instance, we have mushrooms. There's a mushroom called lions. And right now Lions Main is the most popular mushroom in the United States because it helps with memory and it helps reduce stress and it helps us to settle and be less stressed and anxious, but it's not sedated.

Dr. Silver (40m 42s):
And they've even found it to be beneficial following neurologic injury. It seems to help stimulate some of the molecules that that help with the repair of, of nervous tissue. And Lyons Main originally was used for digestive issues historically, it was only recently that we started to use it for neurologic problems and for, you know, stress and memory. And they're even seeing some success with it in humans with Alzheimer's in terms of, you know, maybe not curing them, but certainly helping with their memory, you know, in a, in a period of time. So Lion's Main can be very good as a, you know, as a mushroom to use just for settling the horse and combination of Lions main with that caterpillar mushroom.

Dr. Silver (41m 30s):
The cortis cortis is a fascinating mushroom because it works through certain receptors in the body that are similar to the same receptors that stimulate our energy when we drink caffeine or eat chocolate or take a a, a bronchodilator like Theo and it, but it doesn't jitter you up because all mushrooms have a calming nature on this in the system for they had, they, they just, that's how they work some more than others. Like Lions Main more than others. And so, so the Cortis helps with energy. It was, it's used for performance, it was used, it's been used by athletes to help improve their performance.

Dr. Silver (42m 13s):
It improves oxidation of the blood. It helps to make a more efficient use of the a t p energy units that are being created. Plus it has anti-inflammatory activity because of the beta glucans that are in it and some of the other molecules. So my thinking is I wanna put together a lion's main cor decept blend in a powder form. You know, right now you could do it yourself by buying each of the individuals and putting them together. But I wanna make one that's a blend and then I can put actual dosing recommendations for Horses. Let me, let me share with you how I would dose these for Horses, because it's not as much as you think it might be. Let's, you know, if you've got, and let's just say it's a thousand pound horse, a 500 kilogram horse, just to make the math a little bit easier.

Dr. Silver (43m 1s):
But we, there are, there's guidelines for dosing beta glucans and beta glucans are the special carbohydrate or polysaccharide molecules that are found in the mushroom. In fact, for the mushroom, the, the beta glucans are part of the structural strength of the mushroom cuz they're part of the cell wall. So for the mushroom, they don't improve immune system, they just help to give it more strength. I dunno if you've ever seen, sometimes mushrooms can push their way up and push up a concrete paver. I mean that's how sturdy the, the wall is of a fun fungi.

Dr. Silver (43m 41s):
Fungi also contain other beta glucan. Something called chitin chitin is what makes up that hard shell of lobsters and crabs. So it's very tough that also this precursor to glucosamine, by the way. So it can have a benefit. It and it benefits the, the glutamine can have a benefit in the, in the digestive system. And so that's where the, the, the chitin in the mushrooms benefits most is the digestive system and the microbiome. So, so anyway, so, but the beta glucans in the mushrooms signal the immune system of mammals because mammal, because animals have, have evolved over the millennia to learn how to fight off fungal pathogens.

Dr. Silver (44m 26s):
Fung diseases caused by fungi are some of the worst. There are, they're the most difficult to treat. What, and we've, we know that, that that animals and fungi both evolve from the same single celled organism. And so mushrooms also contain mu mushrooms and humans and all mammals share d n a, they're more similar. We're more similar to mushrooms than we are to plants. Isn't that,

Caroline Beste (44m 55s):
Oh my god.

Dr. Silver (44m 56s):
So, so we've, so, so immune systems have learned to detect mushrooms and when they detect a mushroom and they detect it from the shape of the cell wall, the beta-glucan, they then stimulate, then stimulates the immune system to be active. And so because, and maybe to fight off a fungal pathogen, but if there's not a fungal pathogen, maybe it'll fight off covid, maybe it'll fight off cancer. You know, maybe it'll work with parasites, you know, so that's how the beta glucans work and they work in all animals. We know beta glucans actually have an effect in animals as primitive as earthworms. So they, I mean, those aren't even mammals. So, so I created a dosing for the real mushrooms products using the beta glucan content.

Dr. Silver (45m 43s):
And one knights thing about that is that the, the real mushrooms products are all standardized to their beta glucan content. So that pouch that you buy this year will have the exact same beta glucan content as the pouch that you buy next year. So you can always have consistent dosing and be guaranteed, cuz we test every batch to ensure that it, that it meets that minimum standard of beta glucans. So that's why using the beta glucan content that's on the bag and, and then multiplying that by the weight of the animal and a factor, you know, a a you know, a, a multiplication factor is the way to get a dosage.

Dr. Silver (46m 23s):
So the lowest level of dosing for beta glucans, that is probably for mammals, for, for dogs and cats, it's probably the lowest level. But for Horses, because they're so efficient with these things, I think is more of a moderate level. But it's a good starting point for a horse. It's two and a half milligrams of beta glucans per kilogram of body weight of the horse per day. So let's say we've got a 500 kg horse, we've got two and a half times five. What's that come out to 1500? Or, my math is terrible. My math

Caroline Beste (46m 57s):
Don't even Yeah, me too.

Dr. Silver (47m 0s):
I think I, my 500 times 2.5, that's why we've got is 1,250 milligrams. Okay. So let's say we're going take the lion's main, like I mentioned, lion's main standardized to 25 milligrams of beta-glucan per half teaspoon or a thousand milligrams. So that means that we divide the 1,250 by 250 and I get five half teaspoons, two and a half teaspoons a day of that. So that's really not an awful lot, you know, when you, when you consider, you know, how much, how much the, the horse weighs, you know, so that's a, that's a nice dosage for that.

Dr. Silver (47m 46s):
Wow. So, so that's kind of how we do that. And, and we have a lot of instructional information on the real mushrooms website. People can go up there and we have, you know, we have a tab that says learn, you know, and then there's, we've got blogs and all kinds of information there. We've got contact forms. So, so real mushrooms also is set up for customer service as well. Although usually what they do when they get, like, let's say a horse, you know, they get a horse question, they come to me anyway. So, you know, through real mushrooms, Horses

Caroline Beste (48m 18s):
Coming to you. Either way,

Dr. Silver (48m 22s):
I, I'm pretty busy, so I just, you know, I, and that's, you know, that's a good thing. But I just wanna say I do my best to try to get back right away. I can't always, you know, give immediate answers. I'm not the place to go if you have an emergency, you know, but, but I do my best to be conscientious about that. Sometimes I miss one, you know, so, you know, tweak me again, you know, send me another email.

Caroline Beste (48m 47s):
That's awesome. Well, it sounds like, you know, this is, I'm gonna do my best to put this out there and I will, you know, between my YouTube channel and as a featured video for a while, and then I'll do Facebook and I can send out an email, which I, which we did already for the promotion of this, but I can follow up with it because you should have like a consulting fee, you know, like even whatever it is, I, whatever you're comfortable with because wow. Think of all the people that are gonna wanna contact you for help. Well,

Dr. Silver (49m 17s):
I, yeah, but yeah, I, yeah, I mean there, there's a, there's a point in which, you know, I'm not gonna be consulting like a regular veterinarian, you know, you're

Lydia P. (49m 26s):
A different kinda doctor, you're not, I'm sorry, but you're not that kinda doctor. You're a different kind of doctor.

Dr. Silver (49m 31s):
Well, well I, I was that kind of doctor. I just don't have that kind of time. It's very, it's very time consuming and I'm involved in a lot of things. I'm try, I'm, I'm working, I've got a book I'm trying to get out there. I'm doing a series of eBooks on different diseases, you know, I, I work with real mushrooms. I've got a, a speaking schedule. I'm speaking almost every month of this year. I'm traveling to a different Veterinary conference to speak, although that's fantastic. So yeah, I, so, so, but what I'm saying is that the kind of consulting that I would do would be to suggest a product, you know, and that's where the consulting fee comes in.

Dr. Silver (50m 11s):
If I'm, if I can find a product that that works for them, then they'll probably keep buying that over a period of time. So it works for them and it works for me. We always, you know, and we always try to give discounts and try to understand that the pet parent has a lot of expenses and we want to try to keep, you know, costs reasonable. We want, you know, we want long-term customers, you know, for our website. And that's pretty much what we get. We tend to, you know, they, they talk about the millennials and those kinds of people. I think we tend to get an older crowd, you know, with, with our website, you know. But yeah, no, check it out. There's a lot of good information there. I've got a blog. Oh my, I also have a blog site called Nurse Your Pet and Okay.

Dr. Silver (50m 52s):
An equine vet who's a good friend of mine, Joyce Harmon. I don't know if you've spoken with Joyce or not. She's up in Virginia. She did the, she was the dressage barn for me. Joyce is semi-retired now, but she does, she still works educating as a holistic vet. And so she's also contributed to my blog site nurse Your pet with information about equine, equine, about holistic equine care. I also have a canine rehab specialist also contributing to that blog site. I don't spend as much time on as I used to, but it has a lot of good information. People may wanna, may wanna look up as well.

Caroline Beste (51m 33s):
Oh my gosh, thank you so much. And again, I'll list all of this when I do the writeup for, to the promotion. This is just amazing. I'm just blown away about the mushroom information and all of it.

Dr. Silver (51m 45s):
It's, it's, yeah, it's, you know, oh my god, there really is a huge amount of interest by the pub, by the public these days in mushrooms. You know, not just, you know, they want mushrooms, they're coffee. A lot of people are growing mushrooms at home so they can have their Yeah, mushrooms and coffee. That's the, that's the greatest way these days to, to take them. And some mushrooms are kind of bitter tastings. So when you put them in coffee, you know, get that bitterness to them, you know, one mushroom called rei, you know, the only, the only way I can take it as you know, as direct is in coffee and

Caroline Beste (52m 20s):
There, what have you got there? Lydia got,

Lydia P. (52m 22s):
I'm a mushroom. It's not on purpose, but I'm growing. Oh, you got

Dr. Silver (52m 26s):
A mushroom growing in there.

Lydia P. (52m 28s):
Just

Dr. Silver (52m 28s):
Kinda grew

Lydia P. (52m 28s):
Outta nursery.

Dr. Silver (52m 30s):
Oh, how interesting. Yeah. I wonder what it is.

Lydia P. (52m 33s):
First time my husband's ever brought me a perennial from the nursery that grew mushroom in the house.

Dr. Silver (52m 39s):
Fascinating. Wow, that's really cool. It's a heli.

Lydia P. (52m 42s):
It's a heli bore, but there's a, yeah, I don't think you're eating this one cuz it's got the ridges.

Dr. Silver (52m 46s):
No, well and, and you need to be, you know, there, there is, in addition to people growing mushrooms in their own house, there's also a bunch of mushroom clubs now where people go out foraging and identifying mushrooms. And I just wanna say, as popular as that is, you need to be really careful about picking wild mushrooms. You don't, you wanna watch for mushrooms that might be growing out in the pasture and get rid of them. Cuz your horse might munch on them and they could be toxic. Likewise, your dog in the backyard after a rain, you know, some of those white mushrooms that grow are the most toxic mushrooms there are. So you need to go foraging with some people that are experts and can show you, you know, how to avoid the toxic mushrooms, you know, but there is just so much interest in mushrooms.

Dr. Silver (53m 32s):
It's a, you know, and there's a lot of interest about the mycelium in mushrooms, about how they can grow underneath forests and actually function almost like a, a worldwide web, a network of communication for both nutrients and also chemical messengers between the trees and the, all the other little trees and plants that are in there. There's a, there's a special on Netflix, I don't know if you've seen it, called Fantastic Fungi. And it's really worthwhile watching Caroline if you have time to see it. It's got great animation and it really talks much more about this, this the, the impact that mushrooms and mushroom mycelium have on our global ecology and how important mushrooms and fungi are to the health of our planet, to our own health.

Dr. Silver (54m 20s):
What would we do without the, the kingdom of fungi? No cheese, no bread, no beer, no wine, no kombucha. It'd be a very dull world.

Caroline Beste (54m 32s):
Yes, it would. Yes it would. All the things I love.

Dr. Silver (54m 37s):
Chocolate wasn't on that list. We don't, we don't need fungi for chocolate though.

Caroline Beste (54m 43s):
Exciting

Lydia P. (54m 44s):
Morale season here, so,

Caroline Beste (54m 46s):
Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh, Dr. Silver, this is just amazing. This is so exciting. Thank you. I'm welcome. So excited. Yeah, this is fantastic. Is there anything else you wanna add before we get ready? I can't believe it's almost been an hour.

Dr. Silver (55m 4s):
I don't know. I mean, do we have questions or anything like that? We

Caroline Beste (55m 7s):
Had one

Lydia P. (55m 8s):
Question from Becky and she wouldn't know what's a bleeder?

Dr. Silver (55m 12s):
I'm sorry,

Lydia P. (55m 13s):
What's a bleeder?

Dr. Silver (55m 15s):
Oh, what's a bleeder? What

Caroline Beste (55m 16s):
Is a bleeder

Dr. Silver (55m 18s):
Bleeder?

Lydia P. (55m 18s):
You talked about it in the beginning.

Dr. Silver (55m 20s):
Oh, what's

Caroline Beste (55m 21s):
A bleeder?

Dr. Silver (55m 22s):
The, the, the nose bleeds with horses that race, when they get racing too fast, they develop this problem and maybe it's a high blood pressure problem in with the nasal pasture. So you get the, the, the bleeders in, in racing Horses. And, and so they, the treatments for that are, they give the, usually they give the Horses Lasix, which will reduce blood pressure because it reduces the circulated volume. But that

Caroline Beste (55m 51s):
Can also, like for humans

Dr. Silver (55m 52s):
That can also affect performance. So looking for other means that won't test, that would help to control that is I think an important thing for those that are in the raising industry.

Caroline Beste (56m 3s):
It's scary. I mean, I mean, how do, I can't even think, it can't be positive why they're getting such high blood pressure that's really dangerous. I mean, what, what, what creates the high blood pressure? Do you know?

Dr. Silver (56m 16s):
Well, I think, I think the excitement of racing. I think Horses are athletes, you know, adrenaline and they, they get that competition, you know, if you ever just seen them running out in the field, they're pretty competitive even there, you know, so yeah, I think that's what happens is it's, it's their, it's their excitement that raises their blood pressure. And just as we see with humans, some have higher blood pressure than others, you know, and certainly could be things like adrenaline for instance, you know, that are doing. Now I have

Lydia P. (56m 47s):
A, I have a quick question because I have a, yeah. A I work for a nursery who, she's an equine dentist and can you, can she use the relaxing part of fungi and CBD to work on teeth as opposed to using sedation with a vet?

Dr. Silver (57m 7s):
Well, I think that would be a good question for us to answer, don't you? We should find out if, if that works or not, because that would be a great tool to use. I would suspect some Horses you probably could and other Horses maybe not. So it may depend on their particular level of, of stress, you know, and and how discomfort, yeah. How calm they can get. But I, that certainly is something worth looking at and well

Lydia P. (57m 37s):
Like what would be the dosage time? Like would she have enough time? The horse shows up, you dose the horse and you have an hour to work on the teeth and so there's that too,

Dr. Silver (57m 48s):
Right.

Lydia P. (57m 49s):
Piece. Right. It's not immediate.

Dr. Silver (57m 52s):
Yeah, I mean I think, you know, with the mushrooms, they're really not a drug, you know, you're really not, you know, you might get an immediate effect, but I don't know that I could guarantee it. I would be more likely to suggest using it for the week prior. You know, you usually schedule those barriers, you know, those, those dentals anyway, or a failure, maybe put it on for the week prior. And then for the CBD I would probably, you know, try that for, you know, maybe the 24 to 48 hours prior to make sure you've got, you know, good levels up there. And, and it would be interesting to see how that works. And we would have to do it more than just on a single horse.

Dr. Silver (58m 34s):
We'd probably have to do five or 10 Horses to get an average sense as far as whether it's going to help more Horses than not, you know? Yeah. As far as whether it's worthwhile to, to suggest it, you know. But that certainly is one potential application. You know, I make these, I made these chews, these soft chews for dogs using the lion's man and this other mushroom reishi, but I also put tryptophan in it and theanine and valerian and catnip and passion flour and, and lemon bomb. And it's very calming. And when we use that in combination with the CBD, it works quite well.

Dr. Silver (59m 14s):
I think it's the tryptophan that really does the job there. Yeah. So that's also something to think about with horses. I haven't really worked with nutraceutical medicines in Horses, but I wonder, you know, if Oh, how a horse would respond to tryptophan in combination with the mushrooms and the CBD. It's not an answer that I have. You know, I, I'd look to see if there's some studies into the use of tryptophan and Horses before I begin, but yeah, no, it's, there's so much to do, so little time.

Caroline Beste (59m 42s):
Yeah, I understand. Oh my gosh,

Lydia P. (59m 47s):
Though again, and if you leave it when you go, then pick it up where you left off, right?

Dr. Silver (59m 52s):
Yeah, that's true.

Lydia P. (59m 53s):
Yeah,

Caroline Beste (59m 53s):
That's this point. Yeah. Leave your legacy. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. What a pleasure. Thank you. Thank

Dr. Silver (1h 0m 3s):
You both. It was really a lot of fun being with

Lydia P. (1h 0m 5s):
Both. Would you like to come?

Dr. Silver (1h 0m 8s):
I'm sorry, what?

Lydia P. (1h 0m 9s):
Would you like to come back sometime?

Dr. Silver (1h 0m 11s):
Yeah, sure. Invite me back. That'll be fun. And maybe we'll get, you know, more attendees with specific questions that I can try to answer for them. I'm, I'm, I'm not at my peak, you know, with equine as I am with Canine, but you know, I think I can talk pretty good horse here and there, you know.

Caroline Beste (1h 0m 28s):
Well, and we can, it can be more dog oriented too. That's fine. I mean, we're, it, it's all good. We're, yeah, you know, it's Everything Horses and more, it's not just about Horses. So, yeah. Now that I know more about you, there's

Lydia P. (1h 0m 40s):
Questions if you wanna, you, if you want them, them, there's question,

Caroline Beste (1h 0m 42s):
More question. Excellent.

Lydia P. (1h 0m 44s):
Do you use Devil's Claw and Yucca for inflammation and pain management?

Dr. Silver (1h 0m 49s):
Devil's Claw and Yucca have been found to be helpful for those and certainly when given at the appropriate dosages should be helpful. But like any other thing as I'm talking about with pain, you know, oftentimes it takes more than just these two things to do it. I mean, you may have read an article somewhere or you know, whatever. And yes, they are both good, but they are limited in, in how well they can work until you start pairing them up with other herbs or other nutrients as well.

Lydia P. (1h 1m 22s):
Awesome. And the second one, another one. How long to do you recommend administration of a particular mushroom length of Healing time versus used as food or slash feed?

Dr. Silver (1h 1m 36s):
I really think that mushrooms are super foods and I really think they're best given on a regular basis as part of, as a lifestyle supplement. I call it lifestyle supplement, meaning it really should be part of the daily regimen, you know, and I think you can increase the dosage if you have special need. You could add a different mushroom if you have a different area that needs work on. But I really do suggest they'd be given on a daily basis, they have the best effect. You know, you might get a good effect after two weeks, you'd probably get an even different effect after two months. So especially with things that might be working on behavior like Lions Main, I think the longer they're on board, the better they work. My lab is a rescue dog and he's got terrible PTs d and which for lab is tough because he's so needy.

Dr. Silver (1h 2m 23s):
He always wants to be near me, but then he gets frightened to be too near me. So I've been using Lion's Main on him. And at first I didn't think it had an effect, but it's been a couple of months now and he does seem to be wagging his Tao more and, and kind of more, more friendly. So that's kind of an example of where I think, especially for things like behavior, you know? Is there another question? Lydia?

Lydia P. (1h 2m 48s):
Is there any, I don't think so. I have one. Is there any danger in masking so much pain that you hurt yourself beyond that? Like, or like opioids do? Like when you're on an opioid or a muscle relaxer, it blocks the pain and you overdo it and then you're in more trouble later. Is there that danger with the practice of fungi and CBD?

Dr. Silver (1h 3m 18s):
I think fungi reduce inflammation, but I don't, and they have, there are studies that show they can help with pain, but I don't think they're very strong in that regards. I think they're just one more increment that you would want to use. CBD on the other hand is, you know, is quite strong. But you know, I think when you've got the kind of pain that you could injure yourself badly by overdoing it, I don't think CBD has that kind of strength like an opioid to, to mask it. And we do know that CBD works well with opioids and there are some studies that show that CBD can lower the dosage of an opioid and still get, still maintain the same level of pain management.

Lydia P. (1h 3m 58s):
Thank

Caroline Beste (1h 3m 59s):
You. Well, that's good to know. Yeah, very good to know. Well, that's a great question, Lydia. That is awesome question. Well, thank you again. Thank you everyone. Yep. I'm running added time because I've gotta, I have to get going myself, so thank you so much. Thank you. I will be in touch with you, Dr. Silver. Please

Dr. Silver (1h 4m 18s):
Do. Yeah, please reach out and let's, let's get things figured out for,

Caroline Beste (1h 4m 22s):
Yeah. Yeah. And do you have a discount? You said you had a discount code or a discount? I

Dr. Silver (1h 4m 26s):
Do. I have to make it though. I have, I have to put it,

Caroline Beste (1h 4m 31s):
It'll

Dr. Silver (1h 4m 32s):
Be, I'm sorry, what? Oh,

Caroline Beste (1h 4m 36s):
5%. So how do we get hold of the discount? Just,

Dr. Silver (1h 4m 39s):
Well, I'm going to, so are you going, if I give you that, you can then post it with this recording, right? Is that how that would work? Or, or broadcast to your attendees or whatever. I just have to make it first. I, I didn't think to do that first, so. Oh,

Caroline Beste (1h 4m 59s):
That's, well, thank you though. Thank you for the offer and Yep. And then I guess, yeah, that's all good. This is wonderful. Thank you. Well,

Dr. Silver (1h 5m 8s):
Thank you. Thank you for having me today. I hope my information is helpful.

Caroline Beste (1h 5m 12s):
What an honor. Yeah, this was amazing. Mind blowing.

Lydia P. (1h 5m 16s):
I get very, when we get to talk about plants and, and that not just Horses.

Dr. Silver (1h 5m 23s):
Well, plants are so special, aren't they? I, I,

Lydia P. (1h 5m 26s):
I shared my career, so, yeah.

Dr. Silver (1h 5m 30s):
Nice. Well, good. Well, you both have a great day. We'll see you later. Okay. You

Caroline Beste (1h 5m 33s):
Too. All right. Bye everyone. God bless. Bye everybody. Thank you. Bye.