From Ebola outbreak response in Sierra Leone to public health research and driving innovation, with Asad Naveed

In this episode, Sujani sits down with Dr. Asad Naveed to talk about his work with the Ebola outbreak in Sierra Leone, using social media as a platform for health education and mentorship, and providing guidance for those getting started in public health research.

You’ll Learn

• Asad’s on the ground work with management and prevention of Ebola in Sierra Leone and how he first became involved in community health
• How Asad’s field work led to a career in research and what his goals were when returning to school
• Perspective and making changes in global health systems
• Social media and the responsibilities that public facing figures and users have
• Tips on getting started and climbing up for those interested in public health research and social entrepreneurship

Today’s Guest

Resources

• Connect with Asad on LinkedIn 
• Read and subscribe to Asad’s guides and newsletter 
• Read the article about Ebola Virus in Children in Sierra Leone 
• Listen to the previous episode with Jennifer Monti
• Purchase the book, The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid 

Transcript

Asad: 0:00

And in fact, it's my love for health communication that has allowed me to make these to grow my LinkedIn, actually, because I think social media campaigns during the capable out can be also afterwards, I did some work with the BBC media action. But instead of like focusing on these broad fields, I really wanted to become niche specific. And just work on the one area and public health in the future for which I realized that I need some more time.

Sujani: 0:40

Welcome to PH SPOTlight, a community for you to build your public health career with. Join Us Weekly right here. And I'll be here too, your host, Sujani Siva, from PH SPOT. Good morning, Asad, and welcome to the PH SPOT podcast. It's so nice to have you here.

Asad: 1:01

Morning. Nice to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Sujani: 1:05

It's always fun to connect off LinkedIn, because you and I have been following each other. And I like LinkedIn feature because it tells you when we've been connected since and it says May 2023. So that's when we weren't connected. But I think even before that, I was following a lot of the great stuff that you were putting out on LinkedIn. And yeah, it's always nice to see the person behind kind of all those great posts.

Asad: 1:28

Thank you. I think I used to follow you before you follow. I used to see your posts on job opportunities. Before I started working on LinkedIn, I used to follow you at that.

Sujani: 1:44

Yeah, I remember sending you a message saying I can't believe we're not connected. Yeah. Because I think we were engaging in other people's comments or even our own posts comments. And then it was surprising that we weren't actually connected as, like connections. But then yeah, here we are today, talking to each other about and we'll talk about a lot of things, including your public health career, but I think where are you really carved out a space as somebody that people look up to, to really get some guidance on is around like public health and doing research in that field, right? And what I really love about the stuff that you put out is those like practical, easily understandable guides on academic research, we'll get to that. And you have a great newsletter where you do offer a lot more. But let's go back very early, early days, when you discovered public health as a field that you were interested in. I know you have no prior training as a physician and so curious to hear if you had discovered public health during your medical training, or was it even before that? Or was it you know, years after you became trained as a physician? So tell us that story.

Asad: 3:01

Thank you. So my background is actually missing public health and research.

Sujani: 3:09

Okay.

Asad: 3:09

And I trained to be a medical doctor at the University of Sierra Leone. That's where I grew up. And from the very, very early days, I was always involved in student projects and student activities with the Sierra Leonean Medical Students Association. And eventually I became the president of the Sierra Leone Medical Students Association. So what's Sierra Leone Medical Students Association is indeed, for students at that time was to teach everybody skills that you don't learn in the medical school. And this revolves around, you know, community action, doing public health projects out there, really translating what diseases you're learning to preventative projects like preventative campaigns. And then I will give you one example of this. So during the Ebola outbreak, we were caught by surprise in Sierra Leone because Sierra Leone is one of the weakest health systems in the world. And we had the Ebola outbreak on top of that, which meant the virus was going to cripple us more so everybody was asked to come on board and even though we're medical students, we decided to work the outbreak. Now, when you get Ebola, the case fatality rate is much higher than COVID. Like especially at that time, so most people who got Ebola died at that the case fatality was like 70 to 80%. Eventually, it got down with better system and there's some treatment options now for it as well but there is no gold standard treatment as well like an affordable to keep and still, but with good public health action or with a health system, you can reduce the mortality rate to 30%. About 30%. Let me not say 30%, because don't know the exact number, but if you treat patients early, the chances of survival are higher. And when someone gets infected, the only treatment at that time was to just give supportive care, meaning you get dehydrated, they have nausea and diarrhea, or bloody diarrhea, you just give more fluids. If there's pain, you give painkillers, they fever you give anti pirate. So that was the only treatment available. But research showed that even if you gave that supportive care early, the survival rates improved. So what we did was as the civilian medical students association, we started a campaign called Kick Ebola Out campaign. And it was actually a education campaign, in on the ground in communities where we went from door to door, and told people about preventative strategies against the Ebola virus, such as washing your hands frequently, not attending burial ceremonies, if someone had Ebola, because that was a point where people got it very quickly. And we also told them other measures like staying indoors, if you're infected, isolating a loved one, if you're infected and what to do to infect it. So this campaign was both on the ground, went to communities and gave flyers, education material. And we also did this online. So we had videos online. We're doing design, spreading Facebook, which is the most prominent social media material. And this campaign reached 50,000 People in Freetown, which is the capital of Sierra Leone, and eventually helped us win an award from CIVICUS called the Nelson Mandela and Michelle award for innovation. So basically, my public health career started around that time and a bit before that. That's how everything started.

Sujani: 7:27

It sounds like you had kind of like awareness about this area of work like public health, prior to even entering your bachelor's degree. Is that right?

Asad: 7:39

Well, Sierra Leone follows the British medical curriculum, which means after high school, you go to medical school directly, but you do more years, you do six years instead of four. And you graduate with a medical degree. So I learned a little while studying, obviously, I'd had malaria. before and I knew things are bad. I learned more about public health and the need for stronger public health system. When I was in medical school, and when I was rotating, pay a specialty. For example, Sierra Leone has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world. And where did I really feel that that weight, it was when I was doing my obstetrics and gynecology rotation- Depends, especially in maternity hospital in Freetown. That's where I saw the challenges like people coming late, because they had no knowledge people skipping antenatal care. And then some people coming on time but not getting adequate treatment because of weak health system. So that's where I started seeing thing and I started realizing that prevention actually can save a lot of life. I mean, prevention is better than cure. Basically, that part is what I thought we as doctors were pretty hopeless. And when people came in super late, had excessive bleeding and they were, you know, we just had to resuscitate. It was type of challenging. This was emphasized. So my public health experience got enhanced during the Ebola outbreak and after I graduated, so one of the other projects I worked in, during the Ebola outbreak was serving as a case manager in the Freetown Ebola Response Center. So I was working with the Ministry of Health. And I was in the command center, where I manage the transfer of about 8000 patients, from the community to various hospitals, and I was also responsible for arranging their lab tests for Ebola. Ebola is a bit different from COVID. So when someone is suspected, you have to right away, put them in isolation of people but the case definition of Ebola is similar to that of malaria and other similar disease. So because you have symptoms like diarrhea, vomiting, fever, etc. So the isolation unit is the most important part because people are tested for Ebola there. And then if they're negative, they are discharged. And if they're positive, they're sent to an Ebola treatment center, which is different from an isolation center. Everyone there has Ebola, so you don't strictly isolate everybody inside the hospital. Because in the isolation unit, you have to isolate everyone from the other person, it's even more challenging. So what I used to do was to arrange transfers of patients from the community, to the hospital, the isolation unit, or in their tests, and then wait for the results, and then arrange their transfer to a treatment center or arrange the discharge if they were negative. So everything was centrally happening, we've informed doctors on the ground, about the results and everything. And what was really sad at that time was, we knew the results of people before anyone else knew. And once we saw the result of a professor of ours, I mean, we didn't obviously tell anyone, but we knew he was a professor in our medical school. We knew before everybody has been infected, and unfortunately, he passed away later on. So it was very challenging. And the most challenging part was leaving people behind. Because every day there used to be so many calls, but there was less space. So people were always left behind and staying behind them, your survival rate decrease. Yeah, so that was the challenge. So that's when I really work in a public health setting, like full on.

Sujani: 12:08

Yeah, like on the ground.

Asad: 12:09

Yeah. If you have seen some of these series online, about outbreaks, like there's a, there's a newer, fungal infection, it was pretty much real, because they used to be full day, stay at home announcements with the government, where for three days, nobody would be allowed to come out, except us to be in town where the whole place was super empty. It was a scary time, once an Ebola infected guy in one of our command centers location. And he came in front of our office and started vomiting blood there. And touching that blood meant you will get infected. So we were all scared, and we stayed away. So we have an infection prevention and control guy came and sprayed the thing with chlorine. And then coming when it was safe, we were able to use the stairs basically, to go out. And so if you have seen those series, like the auto sector, it was a bit similar in some ways.

Sujani: 13:19

Yeah. Like I can't even put myself in, whether it's your shoes or the shoes of those patients. And I think whether it's the health care workers, or those individuals, it's, it's a scary place to be and quite isolating even for the patients, right? Because they don't have their family around during such a scary time. And I'm sure your team is doing the best you can. But there's also a fear involved, right when you're working with these individuals. And I'm sure that takes a toll on the work that you're doing. And like I was just looking at your LinkedIn profile. And you were in that role for over two years and curious kind of how you transitioned from that work into then you continued into research, did kind of your experiences on the ground, motivate you to then get into research?

Asad: 14:14

It did, actually. So luckily, I had a mentor who invited me to join one of their projects. Her name is Dr. Felicity Fitzgerald. And she saw that I was involved in the Command Center, also in care of hospital so she was doing a project on Ebola virus disease in children. And she needed someone to do data collection for her. And her data collection was complex. It wasn't that simple, because it will involve finding the patient in the central record. And then matching it with the hospital, like the pediatric unit record then collecting information about the patient from both sides and combining them. And because I was a, I was a former case manager, at that time, I knew how the record worked, I used to create those records, like at the command center, and send them to the hospital. And so she invited me in which I happily like to that role as a research assistant. So that's where I really work, hands on on a research project as well. And it was interesting to see how after collecting all the data, and analysis, we're able to see results. So it made me realize the importance of evidence based medicine, in public health decision making. And the paper actually created a treatment protocol for Ebola virus disease in children. So it was very useful. And it got published in The Lancet. So it was a wonderful experience. That's how I started working in research, and started loving research. And eventually, in between, I got invited to some events, internationally. So I got invited to the UN humanitarian summit in Turkey. And at that time, we weren't shaking hands, because of the- just like during COVID. Yeah. But it was super clear, because checking with a potentially infected person. That could be a dangerous shake of hands. So when I went to the UN Manieren Summit, where people were shaking hands with me, it was so strange for me to shake hands, I felt really odd, because I hadn't done that for a year. And the good thing about Ebola is doesn't spread in the air. It's usually with physical contact. So that's why it didn't spread. Globally, unlike COVID. So during the Ebola outbreak, there were various things we're always working on. It involved a lot of thinking, sometimes we started working on in home care kit for people who are left behind. And also, I also worked on some projects to improve communication with families of patients who are in treatment centers. So it was a place where we're working with CDC, professional people from the CDC, and various institutes in the UK and elsewhere, and WHO, and I saw how things were at that time, and they were also not sure of what to do about certain things. And they relied on us on the ground in the local cultural context. So, it just emphasized the importance of innovation on the ground. And the fact that a so called expert may not really know what what to do, they may know the basic principles, but they may not know what knew to do. So ideas from the ground can sometimes you know, work. And when we propose the homecare case, it actually worked. Some people used it. So because patients were being left behind the community, they were all sometimes given this home care kit, which had things to wash your hand, a plastic sheet to isolate your loved one. And they may have, you know, reduce some infections as well. But I'm just like sharing that was- that was around.

Sujani: 18:42

That's- that's an interesting point about, you know, innovation coming directly from the ground. And like how I try to relate that to maybe some of our listeners is like when you're in your day to day work and massive organization, sometimes you can feel like your ideas or your work doesn't have an impact to a larger population. And I don't know if you have advice for individuals who, you know, have seen the work that they're doing year after year after year, and maybe they have some ideas that their organization hasn't considered, like, how do they then go and implement it and really influenced that change within their organization? Yeah.

Asad: 19:29

Oh, well, I think one of the ways to do that, in my view, I was lucky, I had access to internet from the very is to always compare things like compare your current state with a state you could get to if things are different. For example, let's say you're working in Canada, in a public health agency and you're responsible for campaign on, let's say, you're doing an education campaign to reduce use of tobacco products. One way to drive innovation is to always compare yourself with a success story, like a country where there has been a lot of success in that regard, and then see beginning, from 2006-07, my friends didn't have any at the time. So I used to help them do like their applications online, what really- what they did, and how you could apply such ideas, etc, as well. So the people's background can really matter how they perceive things. But for those who are in power, I think you know, to your local context. So, that could be one week, one strategy they could use. And by power, I mean, in an organization or in the government, one study they could use just to look at the success stories and see what they need sometimes the problem is, we accept the status quo, and then to do different. And be proactive. Practice is the is the way forward.

Sujani: 21:53

Yeah.

Asad: 21:54

If you're not proactive, then this is a problem. So relax. And that's a reason why like interior in, for example, I whenever the president of the Medical Students Association, I found the job. So initially, I felt like, this is a- this is a good title, to be the president of the Sierra Leone Medical would say, that's one of the reasons why the health system is Students Association. So you could represent the association now internationally as well, you know, it looked cool and all.

Sujani: 22:18

Yeah.

Asad: 22:19

But it was a lot of responsibility. And it involved a lot of voluntary work. And when my colleagues are studying, not too strong. You know, obviously, many factors, you I was doing public health work sometimes. So it was challenging. I don't have that, I would say, affinity, to public know, in Global Health is a big thing. These countries are positions anymore. Because it's a lot of responsibility. And if you don't do well, you're breaking it, first of people you formally colonized, their resources were taken from them. promise to do things for. So I find it very, I find that position very challenging. And I was invited to the junior doctors association as well. But I declined at the path, because Poverty made education less accessible. So there are some it's a lot of responsibility. And people have expectations that you will do things for you to deliver, you need to take it inherent factors, obviously. really seriously. So that's why I try to avoid the difference at the moment.

Sujani: 23:19

I think that once you're a leader, you're always going going to be a leader in your- in your space. And it's quite evident, like the resources and the mentorship and the guidance that you're providing in the space of like public health research, you see the number of people that you're helping and supporting. And in a way, it is sort of a public facing position, right, like what you're doing on- on LinkedIn.

Asad: 23:46

Anyway, it is what the good thing is, well, in a way, what you're saying is right, because even posting online, initially, when you start, my main aim is to help people basically to, to make posts about things that I wish I knew, when I was a younger researcher, and basically break the barrier and get those things to them earlier. So that they don't struggle in their research carriers. So that's my aim. So initially, I used to post, you know, once or twice or four times a week, and as your audience grows, and thankfully, mine to like over 100,000 people. You feel like now it's a responsibility because people have expectations from you. And people have been following you and they have a trust that you will deliver to a certain way even though it's not a- it's not binding, but there's that sense of, you know, expectation that we've been receiving information from you. And we hope you will continue to you know, make such posts in the future, and in the same way, new tools come around to do research, new AI tools. People have that expectation that well that if you're telling us about it, you will do your homework and check whether it's a good tool or not before you tell us about it.

Sujani: 25:19

Exactly.

Asad: 25:20

So, in a way, it is certainly possible.

Sujani: 25:25

Yeah. Yeah. And I hope you continue this work and don't shy away from being in public eye. Because I like to point people do rely on good guidance. And I found that, especially when you're a young professional, getting good career guidance is important. And there's lots of information online. And you obviously have the values that you follow when you're, you're putting information out there. And similar to me, like, we know, there's a responsibility that we hold, and that younger, early professionals do rely on this information. Because they can't get- get it anywhere else, right. And I realized that early on to you know, for me, PH SPOT ended up being just a fun passion project. And then I remember one time when somebody had commented and kind of said, Okay, I've actually changed my decision about grad school based on this blog post that was posted. And that's when I think it occurred to me that, like, people are making big life decisions based on the information that I'm putting out there. So there is a responsibility that we hold whether we anticipated that or not. And like, for me, it was telling this to somebody, like the values that I go with when I put stuff out is pure transparency and honesty, but as well as like optimism and growth and compassion. And I think if I can put stuff that kind of like matches those values, I'm happy with what I'm putting out. And I'm sure for you as well, right? Like, you hold a huge responsibility in guiding these young researchers. And they're looking to you for that guidance and advice.

Asad: 27:12

You're right, it's rewarding, actually. Because people message me sometimes. And some will say God bless you, this was useful. There was one time I shared a list of about 800 journals where you can publish your research paper for free. And it actually took me two to three days to compile that list. And when I share the people, they are super happy, because most people think that to publish an article you need to. And if you don't have the money, you need to find it for like a sponsor, or supervisor. Obviously, in a university setting, your supervisor will fund you, etc. But there's so many journals out there, which allow you to publish your paper for free. And there's so many ways you can do that. Sometimes your university has an affiliation with some journals. So there's a mutual agreement, which lets you publish for free. Sometimes the journal allows free articles if it's closed, meaning those who are subscribers will see it. But if it's open, meaning it's accessible to everyone you have to pay. So there are various schemes, which you can read. And what I did in that post was to look at articles that were indexed in PubMed, meaning they were highly rated journals. And with a stronger impact factor, and shared it with everybody. They were people coming into my inbox saying, Oh, this was super useful. Thank you so much. So it does feel rewarding at times. I just feel happy that people have access to these things. Sometimes people I share courses online and people messaged me. So when I see them, posting the certificate that they've completed, and it's something they will be tagged me and they say thank you for sharing these courses as completed this course now, I feel really happy. Of course.

Sujani: 29:11

It is, it is super rewarding. So I think it's a good segue into kind of this, can I call it like a transition that you made from working on the ground, a lot of the work you're doing for about five years was on Ebola response. And then I think you started following more of like a research career. And you think at that point, you also went back to school to get your Master's of Public Health degree. Like what happened in that period when you're kind of transitioning into this world of research? Yeah.

Asad: 29:44

So because of my work in the Ebola outbreak in my work as And then you're out there promoting, you know, some strong the president of the Sierra Leone Medical Students Association, my CV became strong naturally and when I have applied to the Fulbright scholarship. By the way, I applied to the Fulbright scholarship super late, I applied on the last day or the last hour because I was deliberating whether I need to, you know, should I apply that year, or should I go into a clinical year. But anyway, so after the Ebola outbreak, I worked as a doctor, as a physician for two years, where I rotated to surgery, internal medicine, pediatrics, and obstetrics and gynecology. And that experience plus the experience during the Ebola outbreak on the ground, plus my research experience helped me put a good application for the Fulbright scholarship. And thankfully, I got accepted. And after that, I got a place at the University of Washington to do in a master's in public health in global health. And I was really focused on learning, public health, and then going back. So initially, my plan was to go back and work in global health and work at the WHO, but things change. So one of the things that changed was that you remember, I told you that I did data collection for one of my papers, but I hadn't done the analysis for that project. So I always felt like, you know, I could collect data. But I'll always be dependent on people, if I don't know how to do analysis, for my own only, if I don't learn how to do analysis. or some innovative idea which is new. And then, you know, if a So one of my goals, during my degree was to do learn this analysis, like data analysis, and I started learning hard to do that. And eventually, I became reasonably good at it. And it felt so empowering that for this, like, published a paper, where I've done everything, you know, I've done the writing, the data collection, and cleaning, and analysis. And also, you know, completed everything it felt so empowering. So that was my goal, to, you know, always learn and data analysis. So with that, and a few other things happen. So I had interest of going into global surgery. So global surgery is the field of public health, where you promote surgical access in remote settings. And I realized that, even though I'd like this field, for me to really show expertise in this field, I need to first enhance my skill set a bit more, either by being was to work in research more, so that I have more publications. And in the area, that I can show that I'm good in evidence based medicine, because a lot of public health campaigns come out of data driven a lot of public health decisions. So I really wanted to know how to do the data part, I don't need community knowledge transmission part. And the campaign part on the ground, I really wanted to know, do the cardiologist may come and say, I'm sorry that what you're data analysis part. So I had two aims, one to publish and two, to specialize, if possible, in my field of interest, because that saying is fresh. So I had those fears. will make me a better public health professional in the

Sujani: 34:55

Yeah.

Asad: 34:56

But there's still many areas to work in, there are many future. So that's when I really took the turn and started components of public health where I could have gone in now, and working, but it's just that my focus was a bit more on loose working as a researcher so that I enhance my skills, and also specific things. And not broad things like human resource or health or health communication, although I love health get further training. So that I can really make an impact out communication. And in fact, it's my love for health communication there. If I go to WHO, or elsewhere, I can still go there that has allowed me to make these to grow my LinkedIn account, actually, because I was doing social media campaigns and to be honest, as colleagues working at the WHO and I could during the Kick the Ebole out campaign. Also, afterwards, I apply and still be a great person, but then I don't want to did some work with the BBC media action. Six months, so I had be in a position where I'm speaking on global surgery. And some experience in health education. But instead of like focusing on this broad field, I really wanted to become niche then a general surgeon comes and says, look, I know you're doing specific, and just work on the one area of public health in the work in this area, but you don't operate. So don't tell me about future for which I realized that I need some more time. So that's why I took this path to evidence based research and decision it. Or if you're in cardiology. making.

Sujani: 36:04

You're doing really well with health communication, I think, like your guides are very simple. And we'll put the link in our show notes for people to check out your newsletter, and then you have a lot of different guides, and I'm looking at the time and I should have realized that one hour, one hour is probably not enough to cover like your entire career story, plus a lot of the tips that we want to talk about related to public health research. So we're gonna have to have you come back aside and maybe do a deeper dive in that. But I think like one of the things that I really like is that you've had a lot of great success in getting your work published in like really big journals. And you're kind of sharing all of that knowledge with your- your community right here on- on LinkedIn. And I pulled up a few newsletters that you published on your sub stack, and for anyone who's interested you know, there's how to publish your first paper, how to email a professor for a research job, and how to actually find research jobs in the US and Canada. And I really like how these are practical guides for people, you're sharing your personal knowledge and ways that you were able to navigate these areas. But knowing that we probably don't have an another hour to get into a deep dive into this. I'm curious about, you know, what are some of your top tips for people interested in a career in public health research?

Asad: 37:36

I would say, first of all, it depends on what stage the person is really, if you're still a student, or in undergrad, I would say try to get involved in Student Activities for public health. They always coalition's associations who work with students, you could always look for such opportunities in your university and get in at that stage. And later, the answer could be really broad actually, because as you grow, you could get an internship in a public health organization, or study more, you know, do a master's in public health or another public health related degree. And then there are opportunities to write your own brands, as well, you could start with smaller ones, which target students or student populations. And then think of bigger ones later. And eventually, you really want to go into public health organization, you could then apply footballs for a public health position. NGO, NGOs, I mean, the public health, the big public health organizations like you know, Partners in Health, WHO etc. And basically reclaim your lead. Or, alternatively, anything is possible, it depends on your drive, basically. But enterpreneurship is also a way forward. If you feel like there's a challenge which you can solve, you could always create, there's something called social enterpreneurship where you're solving a public health or a social problem while having a return on and that is something you could look into, for example, people who purify water, for example, in developing to be prevent diseases such as diarrheal disease, but they have a return on investment because they're providing a service to purify, to purify water. I mean, I just made that up. But social entrepreneurship is also a path. So basically, the various things you can do in public health. And the main thing should be, your main aim should be to be proactive. Activity and think beyond, think outside the box, you will be- You will do fine.

Sujani: 40:30

Amazing. Thank you so much aside, this is such a pleasure talking to you. And I can't wait to have more conversations around, especially social entrepreneurship. It's something that I really love to talk about. I ordered a new book after a past guest of mine told me about it. So Jennifer Monti, her episode probably came out, but it was about the intersection of medicine, public health and entrepreneurship. And she told me about a book called Profits Under The Pyramid. I don't know if you've heard about it. But I learned that book recently. It's on its way. So I'd love to also have conversations around that with you. But for today, thank you so much for coming here sharing your story, lots of advice around building a career in public health research. And I do want to encourage any of our listeners who are interested in that sort of a career path to find you on LinkedIn, which we'll- we'll link in your substack, you write lots of great stuff over there as well and really hope to continue this collaboration.

Asad: 41:31

Thank you so much. Thanks a lot for inviting me. In the end, I would just like to say that public health is not always scary, the way I I started with, you're not always in a outbreak situation or idea or situation. So don't be afraid, based on what I told you. There are many other opportunities in relaxed environments to make change. So I wish everyone the best in their public health career. And if you want to stay in touch sure, you can follow me.

Sujani: 42:12

Hey, I hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you want to get the links or information mentioned in today's episode, you can head over to pHspot.org/podcast. And we'll have everything there for you. And before you go, I want to tell you about the public health career club. So if you've been looking for a place to connect and build meaningful relationships with other public health professionals, from all around the world, you should join us in the public health career club. We launched the club with the vision of becoming the number one hangout spot dedicated to building and growing your dream public health career. And in addition to being able to connect and build those meaningful relationships with other public health professionals, the club also offers other great resources for your career growth and success, like mindset coaching, job preparation, clinics, and career growth strategy sessions in the form of trainings and talks, all delivered by experts and inspiring individuals in these areas. So if you want to learn more, or want to join the club, you can visit our page at pHspot.org/club. And we'll have all the information there. And you know, as a space that's being intentionally curated to bring together like minded public health professionals who are not only there to push themselves to become the best versions of themselves, but also each other. And with that, I can't wait to see how it this is going to have a ripple effect in the world as we all work together to better the health of our populations and just have immense impact in the world. And I hope you'll be joining us in the public health career Club.