EP142: Shaky Economy? Navigate the Holiday Selling Season & Plan for 2024

Slow September sales and signs of a flagging economy have a lot of Canadian creatives worried about the upcoming holiday selling season. Even Etsy has made efforts to boost sales on behalf of shop owners! And, with no real relief in sight, what does 2024 have in store? Melissa and Heather tackle this head on with lots of practical strategies and tips to help you get focused and make a plan - both for the holiday season and next year!

This is a great episode for creatives who:

• are seeing a dip in sales compared to previous years
• have heard from customers that money is tight
• aren't getting the same level of sales or engagement when launching new work
• are worried about the ballooning costs of raw materials and other business related expenses
• need some ideas jump start sales

We tackle all of these concerns and more! Tune in to find out how!

This episode is brought to you by Fine Lime Designs Illustrations

For a summary of this episode and all the links mentioned please visit:
Episode142: Navigate Holiday Selling and Future Planning in a Shaky Economy

You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @mhchipmunk.

You can find Heather at heatherlynnetravis.com or on Instagram @heathertravis.

Transcript

Melissa Hartfiel: 0:00

This week's episode of the And She Looked Up podcast is brought to you by Fine Lime Illustrations. If you love quirky, colorful art transformed into fun handmade stationery items pretty much guaranteed to brighten somebody's day that's just what you'll find in my new online shop at finelimeillustrations. com. That's fine, as in I'm fine lime, as in the fruit illustrations. com. Browse the entire collection or sign up for my email list to see some behind the scenes peeks into my studio. You'll also get first notice of new product launches and subscriber-only sales, and as an added little bonus, you'll also receive a free coloring sheet to help you relax and de-stress from your day Now on with the show.

Melissa Hartfiel: 0:58

Welcome to the And She Looked Up podcast. Each week, we sit down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. I'm your host, Melissa Hartfiel, and after leaving a 20-year career in corporate retail, I've been happily self-employed for 12 years. I'm a graphic designer, an illustrator and a multi-six figure-a-year entrepreneur in the digital content space. This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the And She Looked Up podcast. As always, I'm your host, Melissa, and this week we have a big juicy episode for you. That is very timely, so I'm very excited to be talking about that. But before we dive into the heart of this week's episode oh and by the way, heather Travis is here today H.

Heather Travis: 2:05

H, Hi Melissa.

Melissa Hartfiel: 2:08

So before we get into chatting more with Heather about our big juicy topic, I just wanted to let most of you know about something new that we're doing here on the show, as most of you've probably heard me talk about the last few months.

Melissa Hartfiel: 2:26

You can now support the podcast via Buzzsprout, which is our podcast hosting platform. It's $3 US a month and with your financial support you get access to at minimum one exclusive podcast episode each month. But today I wanted to let you all know that you can now also support the podcast via Patreon, and I know that for many of you you're more familiar with Patreon or you already have an account that you use to support other creators on the platform, or you even run your own Patreon. And if you're not too sure what Patreon is, we did an episode with Tylynn from Hot Thai Kitchen, all about Patreon, and I'll link to it in the show notes in case you're wondering if it might be a good fit for your business, but Patreon supporters will get the exact same benefits as Buzzsprout supporters and access to the exact same exclusive episode each month for the same $3 US.

Melissa Hartfiel: 3:20

This is just simply a way to give you more choices if you decide that you'd like to support the show. And if you're wondering, your financial support goes towards helping to cover the costs of running the podcast as well as the time I put into producing each episode, and it is very greatly appreciated. So, all of you who are already supporting the show, thank you so much. It really does mean a lot to me. It helps out financially, but it's also a huge morale boost for me. It just makes me feel like like y'all love what we're doing and that makes me feel good.

Melissa Hartfiel: 3:53

If you aren't able to financially support the podcast, that is AOK. We're all creators here and we all know that. There are so many ways you can support the work you love without spending a penny. You can follow the podcast on social media. You can sign up for the he Looked shie Look Up newsletter via our website. You can like, comment on and share our content and spread the word amongst your fellow creatives, or you can leave a podcast review on Apple Podcasts. It's all greatly appreciated. So, as I Heather mentioned, heather Travis is here with me today. And before we get into everything that we're going to be talking about Heather today, heather, how was your exhibition?

Heather Travis: 4:34

L. Thank you for asking. It was the most . It was a wonderful, wonderful, humbling, terrific, exhilarating experience. I soaked up every minute of it. I was saying to Melissa before we recorded there was a lot that went on that day and I was in bed asleep by 8.15 that night and in fact the following day. I got up early, I did a lot of things, I was pretty proud of myself and then at one o'clock on the Sunday afternoon I thought to myself I would just put my head down for a little nap and five hours later I woke up. So if that is a good summary of a day well spent or, in fact, a year well spent, honestly I feel like the release of all of it was finally happened on exhibition opening day. So it was pretty exhilarating and there's more events to happen and more to come, and it was great. Thank you for asking.

Melissa Hartfiel: 5:34

Awesome. No, it is great. For those of you who are maybe new to the show or you missed our season opener. Heather is a painter and a muralist and she's also a PR communication specialist, but she launched her very first solo exhibition at the Bruce County Museum.

Melissa Hartfiel: 5:52

I'm not sure when exactly this is going to air, but it launched in mid-September and it's running until the end of the year. You can stop by the museum and see it. It's 32 works of Heather's art and, yeah, it runs until the end of the year. And if you're not in Ontario or you're not able to make it to the museum, you can view the exhibit online through the Bruce County website, which I did the other day. It's very cool, yeah, so cool right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 6:22

Yeah, very cool 3D representation of it so you can see all the paintings and read the blurby bits about them and learn what inspired them, and it's really cool. So, yeah, if you want to go check it out, you can do that, and it runs till December 31st, right, yep, awesome. So today we are going to be talking about kind of two things, but one thing I don't think it's any surprise to anyone that the economy is a little challenging right now, and I know just from we actually had another topic planned for this week, but over the last couple of weeks, I've just seen so many people talking about a drop in their sales, or whether it's on Etsy, whether it's on their own platforms, and being really concerned about what's happening and what this is going to mean for the holiday season, and I also saw Etsy do a couple of things that they have never done before in September. That really signaled to me that they are concerned as well. So, if you are not on Etsy, they did two things in September that they have never done before.

Melissa Hartfiel: 7:38

The first thing they did is they gave shops the ability to almost use their shop link as an affiliate link, so encouraging us to drive traffic to our stores via our own social media channels and for every purchase that was done through our own shop links, we saved 4% on our Etsy fees. They've never done that before. The other thing they did in September was they ran a flash weekend sale where anybody who shopped on Etsy and spent $25 got $5 off at checkout. Now Etsy runs sales all the time and if you participate as a vendor or as a shop, you essentially take the hit. So if you have $5 off in your shop, you lose the $5, but in this sale Etsy covered the costs of the coupon. So if somebody spent $25 in my shop, I got the full $25. Etsy ate the cost of the $5 coupon. They've never done that before.

Melissa Hartfiel: 8:43

And I think that was really because they're not seeing the level of traffic or the level of purchases that they normally would by this time of year.

Melissa Hartfiel: 8:51

So September, is usually the month where things start to get very busy. So that was a big signal to me and to a lot of people I think that it's not just them, because I think a lot of people have been wondering is this just me, Is it just my shop, Is it just my stuff? And that was kind of a signal that no, it's not just you. So what we wanted to talk about today was, first of all, how to get through the holiday season, what is promising to be a rather challenging holiday season. But we also wanted to take a look at how to plan for 2024, given that this is not going to go away at the end of the year. We're not starting January fresh and it's going to be all rosy.

Melissa Hartfiel: 9:39

So, I think we need to be a little bit realistic when we start planning for 2024. So the point of this episode is not to be a downer. What we wanted to do was bring you some practical solutions and strategies to make the most out of what's happening right now. And if you're not sure what's happening right now, there is one thing I want to mention before we get into that, and that is that small business owners I know that following the news every day is it's hard.

Melissa Hartfiel: 10:16

It's so easy to fall into the doom scroll on your phone or whatever, and just really basically feel like what's the point of even getting up in the morning based on what the news cast have to say? But I do think when you run a small business, it is important that you stay on top of what's happening in the world, and you don't need to doom scroll to do that. All you need to do is check in two or three times a week with. There's some great podcasts out there. I think CBC even has one of them. I know there's a few in the US where basically it's like a little 10-minute digest of what's going on in the world today to kind of get you up to date and get on with your day.

Heather Travis: 11:01

But let's do the Economist podcast. The Economist podcast, yes, yes I think CBC has something similar.

Melissa Hartfiel: 11:07

CBC has a couple good ones too. Yeah, and I have access to CBC News World and they also do a program every afternoon. It's afternoon here on the West Coast, I'm guessing it's probably around dinner time on Eastern time, an early evening Atlantic time, but it's called the Run Now and it's basically a half hour program with the top five news stories of the day and they just go into them each in a little bit of depth and it kind of gets you up to speed and you can move on and get on with your day and with creating. But it's just, you do have to be aware of what's going on, particularly with financial news, and that's kind of what's going on here is we've got rising interest rates.

Melissa Hartfiel: 11:50

When interest rates rise, those impacts can take months to be felt. So we're still in the early stages of these high interest rates, the impact that it's going to have on people. So it's just important that there was other things that went on this summer, like there was a huge port strike on the West Coast that impacted anything coming into Canada from Asia, and I saw so many people going like why can't I get my stuff, why is this late? And it's like just turn on the news, it's right there, yeah, right.

Heather Travis: 12:22

Seriously please.

Melissa Hartfiel: 12:23

Yeah. So you run a business, so you do have to stay aware of what's happening in the world. Having said that, yeah, let's talk about this upcoming holiday season. I think the first thing to note from a positive standpoint is that people aren't just closing their wallets and not buying anything this holiday season. They're still going to be shopping. They're just going to be changing how they shop. So I think that's really important to note.

Melissa Hartfiel: 12:56

I also think it's important to note that what cutting back means is different for everyone. Big time, yeah. So if you have $5,000 worth of disposable income every month wouldn't that be nice? Cutting back might mean you only have $3,000. $3,000 is a lot of money, but if you only have $100 worth of disposable income a month, you might be cutting back to $50. So it's going to be different for everyone, and it doesn't just mean that there's not going to be any money and people aren't going to be spending. They're just going to be adjusting how they spend that money. So those are the two important things to take note of. So how can we, knowing those two things, that people will still be buying and then what cutting back means to everyone is going to be different? What are some of the things that we can do within our own businesses to adjust, and I don't know if you do have any suggestions.

Heather Travis: 13:57

Heather, I do, I do, and so I have a bunch of let's call them well. They're all practical, but some of them are more like managing inventory. So we'll get to that. The first one, though, is from a business, marketing and strategy perspective, is with people making harder choices on what to buy. The decisions are going to be much more emotionally based. They want to find connection to things that they are going to give their money to, and so this, as a creator, is your opportunity to tell the story well. So sell that item and sell it well. Tell the story behind it, make connection, go behind the scenes, dive deeper, really put more of you out there. We talk about authenticity, but this, in terms of like put more of yourself out there and be more vulnerable. In that selling, you're going to go a lot further than just buy my shit, buy my shit. Buy my shit like pushing that's not going to go anywhere, like everybody is pushing, right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 15:13

Everybody is pushing.

Heather Travis: 15:15

Like everybody wants you to buy their stuff Exactly, and so don't be the hard sell, be the soft sell and be Gary Vaynerchuk, gary Vee says it all the time the jab jab punch and it's like you want it's the jab jab, jab, jab jab. Like you need to be soft sell, soft sell. So this is being more present on Instagram, being more active in socials. You need where you are stepping up, where you might be. So my next suggestion is reduce inventory levels. Don't bring in, don't make as much right, don't spend as much money on things that you're going to have in inventory. Spend instead your time putting it into the storytelling around selling that product, because you last year you might have sold 10 of something. This year you might sell five, and you are going to have to work harder to sell that five. But I think if you work harder, it's actually going to be a more meaningful five, because the connection that you make over those five, hopefully, will actually be a. That's a particularly when times are tough, when people spend their money on you as a creator. I find it incredibly humbling and I know when I get orders from people they're deciding between something from me and something else. They're not saying both, and so when you choose me, I need to almost reward that in like my advanced sales of it anyway.

Heather Travis: 16:53

And then the next thing for sure and I've done it so for instance, all my prints for my exhibition. I printed two of everything and they're at the gallery. And everything else on my website is pre-order only. I didn't actually outlay anything. I'm just going to amass orders and then print them small batch with my small independent photography and printing expert, who is also a small business owner.

Heather Travis: 17:18

I don't want him to have to buy a bunch of paper to then supply my order that then I can't pay for because I don't sell them, right. So he's only going to buy the paper that he needs to pay for the prints that I have already had paid for, and I know I'm going to have to work harder to get those because people are going to have to wait for the reward of giving me the money. But that's, I can't outlay that. I just can't outlay that. Yeah, I've outlaid enough this year in terms of spending money. Like I'm out, I'm fresh out of cash, right. So that's how I'm managing for sure. And then to do with that, I've advanced the timelines, so making sure that everybody knows that if you want this for Christmas, you need to order this, like in October.

Melissa Hartfiel: 18:05

Yeah, I think that's a pre-ordering. You made some really good points there. Pre-ordering is a great one. It's a great way to still deliver what your customers are looking for but at the same time, without, like you said, making that big outlay and not knowing if you're going to sell it and having the inventory sitting there. Plus, I find pre-orders get people excited, right.

Heather Travis: 18:30

Like oh cool.

Melissa Hartfiel: 18:31

It's coming. So there's a lot. I do pre-orders with my Christmas cards and it's a great way to manage cash flow and also, yeah, people look forward to it and if you do it every year, people do look for it. It's something they're like oh, when's your pre-order coming up this year? So that's a great one.

Melissa Hartfiel: 18:52

I think you made another really excellent point and this is something I remember being told very, very early on in my career is that one of the first things a lot of big companies do and small companies do when there is any kind of recession or economic downturn is the first thing they do is they cut their marketing budget. That's the first budget that gets cut. It gets slashed because it's kind of a soft budget, if you will, and I was told that is the biggest mistake you can make, because this is the time where you need to be getting in front of people more, but not, like you said, not in the push, push, push way like buy my stuff, here's a sale, here's 25% off every weekend, like that perpetual furniture store that every city has.

Heather Travis: 19:40

You are not the blow up squiggly thing that is just waving in front of the mattress store.

Melissa Hartfiel: 19:45

That is not you Always having a going out? Of business sale, even going out of business for ten years.

Heather Travis: 19:51

You are not the squiggly air monster, no, no.

Melissa Hartfiel: 19:54

So you don't want to be doing that, but doing as Heather mentioned, investing that marketing time and money into forging connections. And those connections are going to go with you into 2024, which we're going to talk about in a bit. But the holiday season is the perfect time to start making those connections for next year, because this is the time when people are going to be shopping. Yes, january and February is when it happens. Every year, people have their spending hangover, right, and I feel like that's certainly going to happen this year. But if you've made those connections with them, they'll remember you and as long as you keep showing up like that's the important part, you can't disappear, because then when they do go to spend their money, it's going to be with the people that they keep hearing from. Yes, so I think that's super, super important is don't just stop marketing or see it as a cost center. View it as an opportunity to make connections and get in front of people.

Heather Travis: 21:00

Totally, yeah, absolutely. And just because you don't have inventory, for instance. So in my case, just because I don't have inventory to constantly be like look at this by me, look at this, that to me is actually the perfect opportunity to actually market your product properly. Which is going and saying here's the meeting behind this piece, here's the story, here's the inspiration, here are my thoughts, here's some techniques I used. Here's behind the scenes video. So it actually challenges you to be a more creative creator. Yes, right, like you don't. You're not just, you don't have the easy out. And I think, to me, this is why this episode isn't all doom and gloom is because when you're feeder to the fire, this to me is when the magic happens. Like the best music is written in times of strife, the best art is created in times of turmoil, and so I think like challenge to all of us is to do our best marketing of ourselves and our business as we can.

Melissa Hartfiel: 22:03

Yes, absolutely, and I think we're going to get into this a little bit more later. But there's some other things that we're going to be talking about that are a little more practical, business-wise, that are also again going back to basics and doing those things that we need to do to have healthy businesses. I think the other thing to remember is, too, that most of us, what we create, what we create, fulfills wants. It's very rare, not impossible by any means, but it's not as common I shouldn't even say rare, because I don't even think that's true but it's not as common for what we create to fulfill a need, and when money gets very tight, people focus on their needs first. Right, it's food, it's clothing, it's transportation, it's housing. Those are the big four, and so if you are somebody who creates something that is related to those needs that need to be filled, now is your time to really show that aspect of your products and the connection and the connection Like the connection to that need, right yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 23:10

Like if you are somebody who makes ethically, sustainably made clothing and we all know that that very often is more expensive than what you can get at Old Navy or something like that but you have this opportunity to remind people that when they purchase that piece of clothing, that clothing is going to be with them for years. It is going to be something that lives in their closet for a very long time, because it is extremely well made, it is made by people who are supporting their families and it's good for the environment. All those things because clothing is a great example, because the clothing industry is just shockingly bad when it comes to so many things. But yes, you have this opportunity to tell that story and show people how they're making an investment that is going to last them for a very long time, instead of buying a piece of clothing that, yes, it's cheap now, but it'll be gone in three months. So think of ways that you can bring what you sell into alignment with what people need. Now.

Melissa Hartfiel: 24:23

Christmas is also the time where people fulfill the wants. This is where they go for the little luxuries, whether it's for themselves or whether it's for the people that they are purchasing gifts for. So if you make the little luxuries. That is actually a really great way to market yourself is these are the little luxuries that are going to help you get through the day, kind of thing, whether it's candles or bubble bath stuff or all the little things that maybe aren't something that people need. But I know for myself, when things get really hard financially, I always make room in my budget for one little treat, and for me it's usually food related. Like I'll usually splurge on an ingredient or something.

Melissa Hartfiel: 25:13

So it's not huge it's maybe an extra five or six dollars, but it makes me feel so good. It makes me feel like I'm not pinching pennies constantly. So if you can tap into that idea of providing people with just a little unexpected luxury, I think there's some opportunities there. The other thing I was going to mention is if you have an opportunity to do in person markets during the holiday season.

Melissa Hartfiel: 25:47

Do them for so many reasons. There's so many reasons this is good in a rough economy. First of all, you're forging local connections. You're getting out there, you're being seen, you have the opportunity to tell your story, just like Heather mentioned. So it's all about building connections, and connections that you form in person are immediately so much stronger than connections you initially forge on social media. Those take a little longer to solidify, but the in person connections solidify much quicker.

Heather Travis: 26:21

Markets are a great place. Like I'm going to bring up collaboration. This in a time of strength. This is a perfect opportunity to collaborate with other creators, and markets are one of the ways that you can collaborate. So, partner with somebody on sharing that booth space, partner with somebody on sharing the costs of that booth space, and then you share the workload. You can also take P-breaks. There's lots of bonuses to collaboration and the collaboration doesn't just have to be in a booth. It can also be collaborating on a launch of a product. You can share each other's audiences. If there are collaborations to be made, this is the time to do it, because it's that meaningful connection with another creator, doing something that is meaningful to both of you, reaching both of your audiences in a meaningful way and I'm using that word a lot and strategically and on purpose. It needs to be meaningful in order for it to make an impact, but if it does, that collaboration could be the beginning of something awesome. So, like collaboration, I think is a big opportunity for one Christmas and two headed into 2024.

Melissa Hartfiel: 27:27

Yeah, you might be next to somebody at a market and you're not going to form a collaboration right then and there, but you're starting the relationship Totally, you're having the conversations. Markets always have slow periods where you chit chat with your booth neighbors and you just never know that could lead to something next year when you really do need to think of creative ways to bring people in. So, yes, markets fulfill the connection piece and the other thing that they do it was just in my head the other thing that markets do is when times get tough and we saw this during the pandemic is people do want to support local businesses because they understand. People do understand what that means. There's always going to be that crowd that's going to go to Walmart or Amazon for the cheapest price. That's just who they are.

Heather Travis: 28:20

They're never going to the craft fair anyway and they're never going to shut online.

Melissa Hartfiel: 28:24

Yeah, exactly. But the people who go to those markets are doing so because they want to support local. They want to make sure that those small businesses are still there. They understand how important that is to a healthy economy in the long run. So those are your people. When you go to markets, those are your people that are going to come.

Heather Travis: 28:46

So we live in a little town called Terra and it's the Terra Craft Fair which happens every year the weekend after Thanksgiving. It's consistent, and I was talking to somebody local. I said are you going to the craft fair? And they said yeah. She said, literally she goes. I get all of my Christmas gifts there every year. She said it's awesome, my Christmas gift lift, I walk in, I get everything on my list there, I have a. She's like I save up, I have a lot of cash, I get it done. She goes and I walk out feeling so accomplished with myself and I'm like good freak, all of her Christmas gifts Amazing, that is her. That is her. She walks in with that intention and that you cannot pay for that. Like that is when somebody walks in with the intent like I am walking into this room and, come hell or high water, I'm leaving with all gifts for this people on this list.

Melissa Hartfiel: 29:36

I didn't realize until I did my first market, how many people do that. I did my first market last year and I watched this one woman. She came in, she went to every single booth and purchased from every single person that I saw, including myself, and that's why she was there. She was there to support everyone who was there. I don't know how many of us she needed to buy from, but that wasn't why she was there. She was there to support everyone and I just thought this is really cool. So, yeah, and if you know, it doesn't just have to be the big markets, doesn't have to be like the oh, there's the huge one that happens every year, there's like a month long.

Heather Travis: 30:15

Yeah, one of a kind show. That's like one of a kind show.

Melissa Hartfiel: 30:18

Yeah, there's. You know there's the make it show in Western Canada, got craft here in Vancouver. Those are a couple of the really big ones. But you know what also, I, you know I live in a small ish town, about 100 something thousand, and every single elementary school and there's quite a few of them does a craft fair this time of year, every single one there. They're all posting looking for vendors right now and if I was really dedicated I could easily probably line up eight or nine markets just doing Yep Elementary school markets in my community like not even to travel very far. So keep an eye out for those.

Melissa Hartfiel: 30:57

This is this is the time of year where they are. They're looking for their vendors and so it's a great opportunity to get seen. And the more of them that you do, the more you get known in the whole community because they see you at the markets and they're like oh yeah, I remember you and you know. So really great opportunity. And if you've never done a market or you're still very new in your market experience, we did a really great episode with Louisa Hrenikoff from Luley Designs. She is a craft market veteran. She's done the big shows, she does the little shows, she's done everything in between. She's sold on the beach in Kitzelano Amazing.

Melissa Hartfiel: 31:35

She's a teenager and she just shares all her advice. It's a super practical episode. I'll put a link to it in the show notes, but we replay it every Christmas because it just it's one of our most popular episodes, because it's just packed with information.

Heather Travis: 31:51

Yeah, that's awesome.

Melissa Hartfiel: 31:52

Yeah, louisa, if you're listening. Thank you again. So, yes, markets are a really great opportunity to make the most of the holiday season. One of the other things I was going to mention is use markets. Use any opportunity over the holiday season, but particularly markets, to grow your email list. Yes, so this is going to be so important to you next year, so this is a great time if you're doing in person markets. I've seen so many people do interesting things to get people to sign up. You know you can have them drop a card in a fishbowl for a prize. I've seen people spin a wheel. You can get like those little prices right wheel on.

Melissa Hartfiel: 32:40

Amazon. They're very small. They can sit right on your, on your table. They're not huge, they don't have a lot of space, but people can spin the wheel. If they sign up to your list, they get an opportunity to spin the wheel and usually it gets them like a 10% off coupon or a little free.

Heather Travis: 32:55

Right Right Sampler can.

Melissa Hartfiel: 32:57

Something, something inexpensive, in exchange for their email address and I've never done this, but I know people who do it and have been very successful with it. You can have an iPad that people can just sign up their name. You can have a clipboard and a pen and a piece of paper. Yeah, people sign up too, but there's there's lots of different ways that you can can encourage people to sign up for your list and and you want to make sure you do that because you're going to you're going to be so glad you did next year.

Heather Travis: 33:26

Oh my gosh. And honestly, in terms of a value, you cannot. You cannot put about enough value on those email subscribers. Funny enough, the episode that Melissa and I were going to record was talking about going viral and anyway, there's something that interesting that happened to me recently and I have. I have I got a thousand new Instagram followers in a week and I have gained four new subscribers to my newsletter, and so trying to get those new people from one to the other like that's super, duper, great that they're all these new people, if I don't get them where I want them, it really doesn't matter.

Heather Travis: 34:08

So right and so like the value that you put on those people and trying to get them, that and that's goes back to that being a more meaningful marketer, because if people see that there's not only meaning in the content that you're delivering in social, but then they say, wow, I want more of this. That's come straight to my inbox, in my press inbox. If you can be that person, they're going to be. You are going to be that person because of a connection that they've made, not because you keep saying, by my shit, yeah, that's, they're not going to sign up for your newsletter. If you're telling, if, yeah, so it has to be more meaningful than that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 34:45

Yeah, so you definitely want to grow that list. I almost when you hear all these advice episodes or people asking people like what do you wish you had done earlier in your small business? Invariably oh, my God start my email list sooner or paid more attention to my email list, or we peaches.

Heather Travis: 35:03

Yes, every time I go in I'm like if I had done this sooner. And it literally it's like the workout analogy like you don't know, if you start today, you have no idea how proud of yourself you're going to be a year from now, because you just started doing it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 35:17

Yeah, they're slow to build, but they do grow and yeah, and they're so valuable.

Heather Travis: 35:22

So yeah, so, so valuable.

Melissa Hartfiel: 35:24

Use the holiday season as an opportunity to grow that list and not just in person like encourage people you're going to. This is the time you're. You're going to have more traffic to your website. You're going to have more traffic to your Etsy shop. Wherever you sell, you're going to have experience, more traffic. So just make sure on your website that you have a clear call to action that it's easy for people to sign. I just had a lovely person email me a couple weeks ago to say that she had tried to sign up for my email list on three different spots on my website and she didn't. She couldn't get it and she, she persevered. Most people would not persevere.

Heather Travis: 35:59

They just like I'm out, right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 36:01

But she persevered and she got signed up and it was so nice of her to let me know. And in the end it turned out it wasn't that the sign up forms didn't work, it was the graphic that I had chosen to use.

Melissa Hartfiel: 36:13

It made it look like the graphic was where you signed up and it was just a graphic, the sign up was below that and she was on that graphic trying to like sign up and it was working for her. So user experience is important. I learned, I know that and I still needed to have it, oh sure, anyway, yeah, just make sure all those things are working. Make sure that that you can. You can, people can easily sign up. Yes, for your list.

Melissa Hartfiel: 36:42

The other thing that will work, whether you're doing in person or selling online, is creating bundles of your products, and so bundling is a great way to add value, and adding value is another thing that you can do to add value.

Melissa Hartfiel: 37:02

Yes, but think of ways that you can bundle things that you sell together and maybe offer a small savings in the price. Doesn't have to be huge, but just enough that it convinces them that, instead of buying just one thing, maybe they're going to buy them all together in the bundle and you have a bigger order value at the end of the day when they check out. And so, because that's one of the things people will be looking for this holiday season, they're going to be looking for how to stretch that dollar as far as possible. So if you can give them an easy way to stretch that dollar without having to put much thought into it. That's going to be really helpful to you. So this could be things like if you have, I'm going to use candles because they're easy. Or like a you can create like a spa kit or something where they get.

Melissa Hartfiel: 37:49

They get a large candle, the small candle. They bundle them. You bundle them together at a discounted price For me. I do note cards. I bundle. I take my cards, I bundle them together and create a set of note cards. So instead of buying one card, they're getting a whole bunch. Is actually cheaper for me to produce a bundle of cards and is for me to produce one card. So right, I can still make a really good margin on it. And they get. The customer gets to save money and they get more. They walk away with more for their dollar. So think of ways that you can bundle what you sell together in a way that makes sense for the customer. Like, obviously you know you're not going to bundle dog bandanas, chocolate, right that's a terrible example, but I'm no.

Heather Travis: 38:42

But you and you can also bundle. You can also bundle tangible within tangible, and so what I mean by that is, perhaps they're buying an ebook, perhaps they're purchasing your ebook on e newsletter marketing or how to do whatever, and if you purchase it in this time frame, over Christmas holidays, you receive a coupon code for 30% off the next release, volume two, of this that's going to be released in the spring. Yeah or right, and so it you're. You're hoping for that future sale, but that person is getting value in that dollar Like they're still. They still feel like they're getting more.

Melissa Hartfiel: 39:26

We see this all the time during the holiday season. You know, speaking of old Navy, their pros at this. You buy something at the checkout, they give you a coupon, but you can't use the coupon for until next month, right? Yes, indigo, does this chapters in to go? You buy something, michaels. Does it to come?

Heather Travis: 39:40

back every receipt in.

Melissa Hartfiel: 39:41

January, when it's slow, and spend some money, exactly. So you can absolutely do that and you know, if you are somebody who provides creative services, so maybe like a photographer would be a great example photography can be. It can be slow this time of year depending on the type of photographer you are. Maybe you offer, if somebody signs up for a package with you, you offer a free 8 by 10 print when they get their photos back, or an extra or an extra set of.

Heather Travis: 40:11

Normally you get 25 digital files. This time you get 35 digital files.

Melissa Hartfiel: 40:15

Exactly so little bonuses, whatever you can do the same for Black Friday, cyber Monday, and that's another thing. I actually didn't have that on my list. I can't believe that, but pay attention to Black Friday, cyber Monday. That's a great time to bundle things. People are always looking for deals on Black Friday Deals Cyber Monday. The thing with Black Friday, cyber Monday I'm just going to call it Black Friday for brevity yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 40:40

Everyone and their dog is going to try and get you to buy that weekend. So think carefully about how you want to participate in that.

Heather Travis: 40:51

You don't know, you just gave me the most amazing idea while you were talking. Oh, write it down, I need to write it down.

Melissa Hartfiel: 40:59

I can't tell y'all how many times Heather and I have to pause this podcast because we thought of something amazing and then we forgot and we need a moment A senior.

Heather Travis: 41:07

And as I'm like I cannot let this go, this needs to be on, there we go. It's written, it's on the page.

Melissa Hartfiel: 41:12

Awesome, thank you so yeah, think carefully about how you want to participate in Black Friday Cyber Monday.

Melissa Hartfiel: 41:22

It is just the time of year where people get utterly inundated, to the point where I don't think most of us can even keep up with the amount of emails and messaging that we're getting, and so I don't. I can't say that I have any data to back this up. I just know from myself and from talking to people that usually by the time Black Friday, cyber Monday, comes along, I'm not looking to see what all the deals are. I already know in my head who I want to purchase from and I'm looking for a deal from them. So, yes, keep that in mind. I'm not saying don't participate, but just keep in mind that the people who are going to purchase from you that weekend are probably the people who are either waiting for a deal or they're hoping you're going to have a deal. So they're like it pushes them over the edge. They've been thinking about purchasing from you for a while, and that Black Friday deal is what holds the trigger for them. So don't expect Black Friday to suddenly just draw in these masses of people.

Heather Travis: 42:24

That's not going to happen, especially this year, and don't think that you can compete with the big guys. There's no, there's no way. And so their marketing dollars are so much bigger than any. Fantastic, I mean, you could literally dance naked for your Instagram and you still would not have enough traffic to beat Amazon.

Melissa Hartfiel: 42:45

Yeah.

Heather Travis: 42:46

And I think in terms of dollars, there's just no way it could happen.

Melissa Hartfiel: 42:49

For sure. With those big sale days like Black Friday and Boxing Day in Canada, people are looking for a really good deal. 10% off, 15% off it does not cut it for those two sales, and so you need to be very cognizant of that fact and position your offer so that it does. Last year I can't tell you how many people were like the deal sucked. This year I didn't buy anything Because that's the other thing that can happen If the deal's not good enough. They just don't buy Totally. You know what? I'll wait till closer to Christmas or all Wait, whatever.

Melissa Hartfiel: 43:26

So now you may not be able to afford to offer a 50% off sale or a 40% off sale. That just may not work with your pricing. It doesn't for most of us. But look at, think about ways that you could maybe work around that. If you're trying to clear something out Black Friday, boxing Day those are great times to do that, because chances are you were going to clear that out at a blowout price anyway. Maybe that's where you can do the 50% off. Or can you create something that you know can have an amazing margin.

Melissa Hartfiel: 43:59

Maybe you can create it and know you can sell it for a 75% or 100% margin, because if you do, then you can sell it at 50% off and still make a good margin from it. And a perfect example of this is calendars. When you buy calendars in the store prior to the end of the year, the stores are making gobs of money off of you. Calendars are priced in a way so that they can be sold in the following year at 50% off and everyone's still making a profit. That's how calendars are priced. I will never buy a full-price calendar ever, because I know that even if I buy it at 50% or even 75% off in the new year, the store's still making money off of me. So that's kind of how you want to think. Is there one thing that you could create that allows you to have that kind of markdown for a couple of?

Heather Travis: 44:54

days.

Melissa Hartfiel: 44:55

So, yeah, that's a good one in terms of bundling and creating value items, and that kind of leads into the whole value items. Is there something you can create for this holiday season that is more accessible to people from what you usually offer? So I don't want to use the term a bargain item, because that's not what I'm necessarily talking about here, but if you make earrings that normally retail for $100, is there a way that you could create a new line where they retail for $50? Still good quality, but just not the same as what you could get if you spent the $100.

Melissa Hartfiel: 45:40

There's a place for both, right.

Heather Travis: 45:42

Totally and it's such a good. I've done it a couple of ways. One is we talk all the time. I paint very large scale and on big canvases.

Heather Travis: 45:51

I've done small, limited releases where I'm painting on heavy, nice heavy card stock and I'm painting on that so that it's frameable, inexpensive, there's complimentary shipping because I'm sending it Canada post. And so I'm almost changing up my modus operandi to meet the opportunity and say, well gosh, in a couple of hours of some fun, creative time in my studio, I whip out eight of these things that I can sell for X price and make a good amount of money, profit wise for my effort and the supply costs. And I think too, this is the opportunity like experiment, if you always wanted to try something and it doesn't cost you that much money. Experiment, throw spaghetti against the wall, see what sticks and see if somebody is interested in it. This could be two.

Heather Travis: 46:42

You know I have a girlfriend who's a poet. You could do custom poetry sessions. You know, buy a custom poet. You know a mini five line poem from me for $25 and you just send me like you can. You can express yourself, create creatively, doing little things. And I would actually encourage going back to the episode that you and I recorded on ways to make $100. Yeah, like my favorite.

Heather Travis: 47:10

Yeah, and I think of that all the time, like Heather. What can we do to make $100 today? Because $100 pays my cell phone bill.

Melissa Hartfiel: 47:18

Yeah, for the month $100 buys a lot of things. Exactly, it buys less than it did when we recorded that.

Heather Travis: 47:24

Oh right, I know right, it still buys a lot of things, but I go back to that in my head all the time and so like what little thing, what experiment, what project, what new technique, what little thing can I do that will help me make just $100 today? And tackle it that way, I think that's a kind of a fun way to do it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 47:43

It is $100 a day, is $3,000 in a month, right Like yep. You know that's not pocket change, no kidding. So that's a rent payment, a mortgage payment.

Heather Travis: 47:55

Oh, exactly, depending on where you live, I mean Vancouver.

Melissa Hartfiel: 47:58

That's a rent payment. So exactly, yeah, absolutely.

Heather Travis: 48:03

Keeping our dogs in the lifestyle to which they become accustomed. It's all of theirs.

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:06

You know, can't buy cute dog bandanas if you don't make $100 a day, so exactly. So those are some ideas of things that you can do right now, in this immediate moment of the upcoming holiday season, is just sit down and have a think about ways that you can forge connections, build your email list and add value. Like I think those are the three big things that you want to focus on this holiday season, but let's talk about planning for next year, because I think I don't think things are going to change next year. I did hear something on the news I didn't catch all of it this morning where they do think that interest rates have stabilized and that they will start to decrease. I think they were saying at the end of 2024 or something.

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:53

So we're in it for a while. There are people who haven't renewed mortgages yet. There are people who are. You know it hasn't impacted them yet, but they know that impact is coming, coming, so they're already preparing for it. So we're not out of the woods and it is going to take a bit of time. So you need to plan accordingly and I think the very first thing to do for 2024, before you do anything, is set realistic expectations.

Melissa Hartfiel: 49:20

Yeah, like maybe 2024 isn't the year you look to grow, maybe it's the year that you look to maintain, yeah, or maybe it's the year you choose not to do a massive launch of something new. Maybe it's the year that you dive into the things that you know work really well for you and take advantage of them. But I think the worst thing that can happen sometimes, I think, is we set these lofty expectations or these lofty goals and then we don't achieve them and it just sucks the joy of what we do because we feel like we failed and we're not getting where we. You know.

Melissa Hartfiel: 50:00

Everybody tells us in business that you need to grow, you need to grow, you need to grow and we do need to grow to a point. But you need to be sustainable. Yes, you need to be sustainable. You need to pay bills, you need to be making it up yeah. Otherwise you just have a hobby yeah. But there does come a point where growth isn't always the answer for everyone. You get to that point where you're like I have enough, I have my mental health, I'm not going crazy, I'm earning enough to pay the bills and this is good. So it's okay to take a step back and just keep things really doing.

Heather Travis: 50:39

And I would say this could be like you and I talked about it a lot is that creative wave, and so I would also see. You know, the lull is just an opportunity to plan and prep for that next wave. And so you know, when you're sitting down and setting those goals, think about like this is that whole. Go back to our episode on branding. But this is like think about your mission, your vision, your values. Where do you sit? Look at the current landscape, what political things are itching you, what things do you want to stand behind? How do you want to use your volunteer time? How are you going to affect change in your community and how's that going to impact your business this year and how you market your business. And so sit down with that business plan, even if it's just. You know, I don't have a business plan, like, as I say this everybody's like I don't have, I don't have a fucking business plan. But I have a plan in my head Like there is a, there is a method to the mad.

Melissa Hartfiel: 51:39

You have a plan. It's just not written down. It's just not written down.

Heather Travis: 51:43

And so and so like, check in with yourself, sit down and check in with yourself and say is what I'm doing, you know, and it's just like anything like? Are my behaviors and habits, the life that I want to live and where I want to be in the future? And if, if there's an alignment that needs to happen or a realignment, use this as that opportunity to do that. And perhaps it's reducing inventory levels, perhaps it's reducing your expenditures, perhaps it's not creating a particular product anymore or piece of item because it no longer whether it was a seller or not, in no longer aligns with you. So like, use this as an opportunity to to think about those things.

Heather Travis: 52:29

I would also say this is the opportunity to go back digging in the crates. Maybe there's something you did three, four years ago that can come back out again. Maybe you have a whole new audience for something. Just because you made it four years ago and a hundred people on your Instagram saw it four years ago. There could be 1500 new people who are just seeing it for the first time. So like, checking in with yourself and where you want to go is also the perfect opportunity to look back and say what have I done and what can I bring back out into the world to welcome new eyeballs on Right yeah?

Melissa Hartfiel: 53:05

We all have that downtime after market season closes, before the New Year. Sit down, pull out your old sketchbooks, pull out your you know the stuff that you did and take a look, go through your, your cabinets and see what kind of supplies you have and raw materials and is there a way you can use those up. Some of my best selling products have come out of finding stuff like oh, how about this that Michael's like five years ago and I really just need to use it. And then I wind up buying more of those because it turns into a good seller Exactly.

Melissa Hartfiel: 53:35

But that's a great problem to have right, exactly, yeah. So you know, take advantage of that downtime 100 percent, and if you need money because we do need money, you know I know that it can sound very nice to say like, oh, just take some downtime and don't worry about it, but I know that there are probably people out there who are like no, I need to worry about it. And so one of the first things I would do if you don't have time to do it now before market season, because probably a lot of you don't, but over the holiday season, sit down and go through your expenses for your business and, honestly, we should all be doing this at least twice a year.

Melissa Hartfiel: 54:14

This is something we should all do at least twice a year. There's always things that you forgot about. There's subscriptions that you're paying for that you just realized you don't even use. I just realized a couple of months ago that I had three payments every month going out of my PayPal to automatic and automatic makes the antispan. The antispan, yeah yeah, For WordPress. And one of those one of the sites is a site that I sold. I don't even own it and I'm paying for their their expense. One is an old site of mine that no longer exists, but only one of the three was a legit, so I I sat down. It took me about an hour to cancel those two subscriptions. I actually had to talk to somebody to get that to happen in, very especially the one I didn't own anymore because I was no longer the owner of the site.

Heather Travis: 55:08

Yeah, oh my gosh.

Melissa Hartfiel: 55:11

But anyway, but I didn't even notice because, yes, I had an Akismet subscription but I didn't notice it was coming out three times because they were all different dates throughout the month. Yeah, so you know, that saves me a bunch of money right there. So you just go through and see what you need. What you don't need, could you downgrade? Yeah, do you need Canva Pro? Maybe you could do the free version of Canva. A lot of us could use the free version of Canva. Mm-hmm, you know, just go through and see what you're using, what you're not using and see how you can trim, you know where, where.

Heather Travis: 55:46

And that means even sorry, going through your inventory, like just as you said, like going through what do you have stock of? What can you use that you've already paid for? And so if you have paper that's not your favorite but that you're like well, I've paid for it, use it to make something else and market it as such. And get there just because if you've already, if you've already paid for something like I have canvases in my store Costing you money. At that point it's just exactly.

Melissa Hartfiel: 56:13

I mean, if you, if you own a retail store or you own studio space, that you were rented studio space, you know that that anything sitting there that's not making you money is costing you money, correct? So yeah, do something with it. If you got something that didn't sell well and it's just sitting there, blow it out Like, yep, maybe it cost you $5 to make each one, but you know what, if it's been sitting there for three years, blow it out for two bucks.

Heather Travis: 56:40

Or look at it honestly. I just donated a painting. It's been sitting in. I love the painting. Some people say they love the painting. It hasn't sold and it's been sitting in my inventory for four years. I was just asked by our local rural hospital is having a foundation gala to raise money for our local hospital, which is a cause that I believe very much in, and immediately I'm like perfect, I can marry these two things beautifully. I have a painting that hasn't sold that I would like out of my studio. Yes, I'd like money for it, but right now it's actually taking up space and it's going to get damaged longer. It just sits here, or I can donate it to a cause I like and they can make money and I can get exposure at the gala in my local community and make a meaningful difference. That's the choice I decided to do and forgo making the income. Yeah, that's what I.

Melissa Hartfiel: 57:35

You know that actually just made me think of a conversation around consignment that was having last week.

Melissa Hartfiel: 57:41

And that's another thing. If you sell on consignment and you have got product that has been sitting in a consignment shop for longer than four or five months and it hasn't sold, pull it. Pull it and sell it to your own website at a discount or something, because when it's sitting in a consignment shop it is on the shop floor, it is becoming shop worn, the value of it is decreasing every single day that it's sitting there Big time and if it hasn't sold in four or five months it's probably not going to sell at the price that it's priced at. So take, remove it and sell it yourself at a discount because you weren't going to make very much consignment. When you sell on consignment the shop takes a lot of big chunk of the sale price. So you know, yeah, get it out of there and sell it yourself.

Melissa Hartfiel: 58:29

So any place that you have things sitting around like, do a real good audit of your business. Where is all your product? Are you selling it in stores? Are you selling it in consignment? Is it sitting in your basement? You know all those things and just look at ways that you can move it along. It'll feel good to January to kind of have that fresh, clean feeling of like oh, my studio is slowly, you know, getting the clutter is disappearing and I find when the clutter disappears, the creativity flows better and big time Good things will come out of it and you can start creating new things. So totally.

Heather Travis: 59:09

Yeah, absolutely and honestly like market. If you have like I'm just thinking, literally looking around, I'm like there's paint that I don't love, I could market an entire series of like little paintings with paint I hate to paint with and like here you go and you do a comedic series. You know what I mean. Like in terms of inviting people in, if the end result is fun and you can sell it and it allows you to use supplies that you just want to get rid of, so that you can only use the supplies that you love. You can only use the marker, the paper, the paint, the whatever that you like.

Heather Travis: 59:42

you know, getting rid of those old things and just having fun with it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 59:45

Yeah, do a second sale. People love those.

Melissa Hartfiel: 59:48

Yeah, I do really well with seconds at markets. I have a basket that sits on my table and everything in it is marked at the price that it is and it's deeply discounted. It's all seconds. It's stuff I cannot sell on my Etsy, like it would be unethical of me to sell it on my Shopify or my Etsy store because it's got small flaws or it's just not perfect. But you know what? You put it in a basket. People love to root through baskets looking for a deal. I'm always shocked when I put it out Like people just must to a flame, you know. Oh my gosh.

Heather Travis: 1:00:22

They love it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:00:25

So it's and they can see it, they can pick it up, they can feel it, they can see the flaw, they can decide for themselves whether this is something they want to spend a dollar on or not. And I do a lot of stickers and there's always a ton of miscuts and you know what? Little kids with their loonies. They don't care, they just, they're so excited that there's something they can spend their loony on, you know, and sometimes they'll leave.

Heather Travis: 1:00:46

They got stickers. It doesn't matter that the stickers are imperfect.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:00:49

They got stickers Sometimes they'll even sell them for a quarter a piece. So they've got their loony. They can buy four stickers. It's super exciting for them. And then their parents usually wander over and are like, oh, what do you sell? And they wind up buying something. So you can also do like mystery bundles with. You can do this with seconds and with with good sellable product.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:01:13

People like a mystery, right Like that's a great way to sell and if you're not sure how to do that, check out, just Google them. Google them, go on Etsy and do a search for them and see, because people sell them on Etsy all the time. I bought seconds off Etsy from from creators that I love.

Heather Travis: 1:01:31

So great way. There's an artist I love who sells her limited edition prints as a surprise sale, and so she'll do it where she'll have three particular designs that she paints and she'll say it's a surprise box, you'll get one of this. So she segments it. You know it's not, you're not going to get one of any of my collection. You're going to get one of these, but it's going to be a surprise, but it's at a deep, deep discount, and so you're. I know people who've gone on vacation like that. We bought a vacation deal and you could end up at one of three resorts and then you end up at one resort and you know, sometimes it's your favorite, sometimes it's not, but whatever, you got it at a deep discount and the surprise was part of the. I mean, I wouldn't go on vacation that way, but I would buy art that way If I knew.

Heather Travis: 1:02:20

I'm going to love any of the three exactly, but like, for instance, if you said to me I was the opportunity to buy one of your greeting cards and it's a random bundle, I'd be like any of Melissa's cards would make me happy. I know, I know there's somebody cool I can send one of these cards to you regardless of what comes in that surprise for the artist who resonates with you, brilliant.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:02:42

I guess, as long as you're really you're happy, regardless, it totally and, I think, as long as you're really upfront about what they're going to be getting, like it's one of these three paintings, you know. You don't know which one it is, but they can look at the paintings and be like, yeah, I'd be happy with any of those right Like exactly, it's the same with it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:02:59

It's one of these three resorts Okay, this is the one I really want to go to. But you know what? I have to go to that one. I'd be fine with it, right? So as long as they just know what they're getting.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:03:09

Yeah, it's a deal and it's a fun way to sell it. So, yes, so reviewing your expenses, a couple of others that are sort of systems related that you, I mean these are things. Again, use this time as a time to go back to basics. We should be doing all these things every January anyway, and probably also every June, but review most of us don't yeah, review and work on your systems. So this is a great time to figure out if there's a better way to ship things, or if there's a better way to handle customer inquiries, or if there's a better way to set up your custom design process. If you offer customs. Those are always really tricky systems to get flowing right and very often we just kind of patch them together from bits and pieces. Just to you know, somebody emails us and says do you do custom wedding invitations with your calligraphy? And we're like, uh, yeah, sure, yeah, we just kind of figure it out, right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:04:17

And then we get so busy we don't have a chance to kind of go back and create a smooth system for that inquiry. So this is a great time to sit down and work on those systems, and if there's a year to work on your systems, I think 2024 is it. This is something I chose to do two years ago in my business. It was one of the best business goals I had for that year and it got me on the right path. It was a very slow year because I was new, I was starting out and I was struggling, but putting those systems in place has made things so much easier going forward. So that was a great time to work on those.

Heather Travis: 1:04:58

And when you're reviewing those, I bet you you're going to discover that there are things that you're doing in your business that you haven't told your customers that you do, and so, for instance, perhaps you have been doing custom wedding invitations and in thinking through that process, you realize, wow, I've done 10 different orders of custom and I've never posted it on my website that I have this service available. This is the time. So, reviewing those systems, review your offerings. Are you telling people that you do all of these things? Have you reminded people on all of your socials and a newsletter that you do in fact, do these things? That's a big one.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:05:40

I've spent a ton of work on my websites this past year, both of them Like revamping them, and both my services and my illustration site. Neither of them are done, but they are, I'd say, about 75% of the way there. It's just something I chip away at when I have time. But one of my mastermind group said to me a couple of months I think last month said something like have you actually told anybody that you've revamped your website? Because she had been to look at it and she was like it looks amazing. She's like have you actually told your customers? And I was like exactly no.

Heather Travis: 1:06:15

I saw that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:06:16

Yeah, yeah, if a creative tree falls in a forest, especially those things that you work on a little bit here, a little bit there, and you just never view them as completely finished in your head, because you're working on them in bits and pieces when you have the time. But eventually it's like, yeah, you want to tell people that you've done the thing.

Heather Travis: 1:06:36

And that's like looking back through your numbers. I do this every year where I go back through all of the money that I've made and I divide up that list between original art, prints, events, so if I'm doing like paint nights or whatever, but then divide it up and then I look and I'm like, wow, I actually did a lot of this this year and in my mind I thought I was making money over here, but I'm actually making money over here, and so, and am I?

Heather Travis: 1:07:04

and so am I? Do I have the right prices associated with all of the things that I am or am not making money on? Do I? Am I marketing those things properly? Am I communicating clearly that this is a service that I offer? And so it might not be that the thing is unsuccessful. It's that I have been unsuccessful at marketing the thing to get into people's hands.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:07:28

I think that's very true. I think also, numbers don't lie, and so very often we have this idea in our head of what is doing well, but we haven't actually looked at the numbers to see if that is the case. And it's amazing to me how many times I've been surprised by like oh my God, I sold a hundred of those. Like yeah, I didn't realize I sold a hundred of those. And because I think we also gravitate to the thing that we love the most that we've created, and so we kind of want to tell the story in our head Like this is my, this is the thing that sells really well, and it's not that it doesn't necessarily sell well, but we tend to ignore. You know, sometimes the things that sell the best for me are the things I really don't love, that I've made for whatever reason, and so when you see those numbers, it's like, okay, you know what this is working, I need to let's, let's dive.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:08:16

You know, let's, let's go deep with this. You know, if this particular print does really well, maybe I should turn it into a greeting card, or maybe I should turn it into a mug or whatever. Right, like. There's obviously a resonance with people. So what else can I do with it? Yeah, which you mentioned, a really good one in there too, and that is reviewing your pricing.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:08:35

We should all be reviewing our pricing At least once a year, more often if you can, but especially this year, for a number of reasons. One you want to make sure that your price appropriately. A lot of costs have gone up this year in terms of how we make our product, and you really need to make sure. I know so many people have been eating those costs because they don't want to raise their prices, because you can't eat them forever, though, you know, but at some point you need to sit down and actually like say, okay, I've, I've gone through three price increases of my card stock and I haven't raised my prices. What is my actual margin that I'm making, and make sure that it's appropriate.

Heather Travis: 1:09:18

People.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:09:19

I know we don't want to raise prices, but people know that everything is going up and so if you do raise it, they're you know what. They're not going to love it, but they're going to. They're not going to be surprised by it right now. The other thing is look at the pricing of your raw materials. Like, could you change something up there? Could you buy in a bigger quantity? Are you able to buy in a bigger quantity? That might get you have some bulk savings. If you're buying your raw goods from places like Michaels, you're paying retail. Okay, like, let's just be clear on that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:09:54

If you purchase a lot of things from Michaels, can you? Is this the year that you look to find wholesale pricing on those products and bring your costing down? And wholesale doesn't always mean you have to buy thousands of something Thousands.

Heather Travis: 1:10:08

There are lots of things. Yeah, it's not a Costco vat of pickles.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:10:11

Yeah. So just see, michaels is incredibly expensive. So see if there's a way that you can find another supplier that can maybe get you better pricing so that you don't have to raise that price but you're still making a good margin. Maybe you can double up with another creator If you use the same thing I'm going to say.

Heather Travis: 1:10:32

This is the perfect collaboration opportunity.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:10:34

Yeah, like bulk order, do a bulk order, and both of you reap the rewards from it. Yeah, yeah, that's an opportunity, but we should be reviewing our pricing all the time, and this is another.

Heather Travis: 1:10:47

And I would also say this is a marketing opportunity too is that don't just raise your prices. Communicate clearly. I've raised my prices because my price on this has gone up and my price on this has gone up and you need to spell it out for people. Some people will. You'll lose his customers and that's just the way the world works and it's nothing to be said about. Be glad about the people that stayed with you and who understood that transition. I would also say this is the year to think through. Maybe it's a part-time job that you get so that you can focus on the things that you're doing. Maybe this is the year that you do make a sacrifice. I don't know. I've made that sacrifice this year and I actually find that it's helped fuel my creativity. I actually find the desire to be back in my studio is greater because I'm forced to leave it to make some money. I'm okay with that. Maybe this is the year that that has to happen.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:12:00

There's nothing wrong with getting a part-time job. It's an opportunity to get out too and meet new people and tell people about you. Well, you do right.

Heather Travis: 1:12:12

Honestly, I'll tell you, I've met so many new people because of my job and they all came to my art exhibit. Both these people who maybe never would have been there are now new audiences for my art, so that's pretty cool.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:12:26

I took a contract this summer, doing something that I'm very good at but I don't love, and those are the things to think about too. We all have a superpower right. It's that thing that is super easy for you. You don't necessarily love it, but it's something that just comes naturally to you for whatever reason. Totally, I took a contract in a technical field. I used to do technical writing back in my previous life and I'm doing copy editing and proofreading, which is something I am really good at, but I really don't want to do. But you know what I can do it quickly, I can do it well and I get paid well for it, and so I'm working with a company that is so out of my niche that I would never normally work with. But it's a great contract. The people are amazing and I'm learning a lot too. So it's kind of nice to do something that's a little bit different, and that's exactly.

Heather Travis: 1:13:30

And give yourself the exactly and give yourself. I think that's the thing we all the struggling. We do not need to be a struggling artist. You can do the things and you can take the time to create and enjoy the creation process. But I think this is the year like. To me, this is the big opportunity that actually cutting back means it doesn't mean I'm cutting back on my creativity.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:13:55

That's the thing, that cutting back on me. No, no, no, no. You want to make it really clear, right? This is Exactly.

Heather Travis: 1:14:02

Like, and to me this is the cutting back of resources. Like saying, like, some of my coolest paintings have been when I've challenged myself to only use the brushes I hate. Some of my coolest pieces of work have been when I've been challenging myself to create something out of supplies that I just want to get out of my studio Limitations Limitation.

Heather Travis: 1:14:23

Like limiting my color, my color palette, you know, yeah, yeah, I think, if you force that on yourself, like I think to me this is like the I've said earlier in the episode, but like a recession and financial strain, this is when magic happens, and I think this is like we should all take this as the opportunity to be like okay, what can I do and how can I be more me and more out there doing the things that I love and connect more meaningfully, perhaps with a smaller audience that makes a smaller dollar bill right now, but when the times change, you're setting yourself up to be the rock star when the stadium's open again. Do you know what I mean?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:15:07

Like yeah, one of the things I had on my list was that a lot of people will be starting side hustles. I actually had this conversation with a girlfriend a couple of weeks ago.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:15:17

She has a great corporate job that she loves, and her husband has a great job too, and she said to me that she's thinking she might like to start a side hustle. I nearly fell over. She has never, ever shown any interest in doing this, but I was just like, huh, okay, and I think that's something. When there's an ancestry commercial out there right now talking about how you grew up thinking that your ancestors were farmers in Canada, but when you dive into the 1931 census because I think the 1931 records just came online but when you dive into the 1931 census you realize that it was your grandmother who was supporting the family with her dressmaking business, yes, and so I think people tend to get very creative in these situations and they start looking for ways to make a little bit of extra money.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:16:13

The spending money, the job, pays for the needs, the side hustle pays for the wants, and so there's nothing wrong with taking a part-time job, there's nothing wrong with starting another side hustle, but get creative with what you can do. There's so many ways I have noticed this year. I have a friend who's a flower farmer. She's been on the show a couple of times. Kristen Raimi, and we were just talking about this recently. So many people in my neighborhood were selling flower bouquets this year from their garden.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:16:50

Yes they were just making it. It was just a way to make a little extra money. They were not flower farmers, but they were Nope, yeah. So side hustles selling eggs, having chickens Now that you can have chickens, you have your chickens. Here. People are selling eggs. There's always a way to make a little bit of money if you get creative with it.

Heather Travis: 1:17:12

And also, too, I have a girlfriend. She does light meditation and one of the things it's like what can you add to your business that adds your appointment of that business? So she loves doing tarot cards. So now she started adding tarot card readings to her light meditation sessions for an extra fee, and so it's another layer. It's almost like that bundling, but for her Layering is a great word for it. The layering, the bundling, it's additional. You get more time with that customer, you get more opportunity for connection. But for her, this is something that she just passionately loves doing and enjoys, and so it was almost a no-brainer to add it onto the top.

Heather Travis: 1:17:57

Is there something that you just love doing that you just want to add in just because you can? This might be the year and I don't this might be the year. I think this isn't the recession doesn't mean strife. I think it actually means more opportunity. So what? You have less inventory sitting in your studio waiting to be sold, but you have so much All the creative energy is just waiting there for you to expel. So try it, yeah.

Heather Travis: 1:18:25

Anyway, I am very optimistic in the creativity aspect for the next year. It's the practical that's where I'm really realistic about it is I'm spending less money on having less canvases. I've dropped inventory. I've committed to fewer things because I know that they're going to cost me money to do them, so I've reduced and I've looked at my budget. What can I reduce spending on? What subscriptions do I have? All of those things those are really important to do so that you can then turn around and be like ha ha, like I know, now you can just be monster and you can be monster and monsters like my studio mascot next to Barbie, and then I can just like around my studio and just have so much fun because I know what that sandbox looks like. Do you know what I mean?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:19:14

When you have to record a video episode for everyone because you just need to see Heather being a monster and her studio Exactly.

Heather Travis: 1:19:25

It's the visual Slightly Tasmanian, devil-y, but anyway, exactly. But that's exactly. You need to know what you're playing in and you need to know the boundaries that you can push. And so if you're going to push a boundary and say I am going to splurge on this new paint even though I know my budget says I can't, knowing that your budget says you can't is way farther ahead than not even knowing what your budget will allow.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:19:47

Yeah. Like you can push boundaries.

Heather Travis: 1:19:50

When you know what the boundaries are. That's my favorite thing to do is to push boundaries and color outside the lines, but in order to do those things, you need to know where those boundary lines are. Yeah, very, very true. Yeah, and that's the practical business aspect.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:20:04

I think too, a few of the other things to think about for 2024,. These are things that we talked about in relation to the markets and how and selling in person and how that can reach over into 2024. We talked about getting those people on your list. Whether you sign them up in person or on your website, lean into your email list for 2024.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:20:25

Make 2024, the year that you commit to emailing your audience regularly. Yeah, it doesn't have to be every week, it can be. I recommend at minimum once a month, just so they don't forget who you are Like. This is the point you're building the relationship, so you need to be the friend that checks in regularly so they don't go. I know I forget that advice regularly. Yeah, I know you get busy and it tends to be the last thing you do, but try for once a month.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:20:54

You could even write 12 emails right now to put out and they don't have to be selling in every email, but just one email and schedule them and just kind of, like you know, tell them a little bit about your process in one email, tell them a little bit about how you got your name, you know stuff like that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:21:15

It doesn't necessarily have to be hard selling, but at least then those emails are there, you can send them out and then you can drop in a second time every month with like hey, I'm just launching this or I'm doing that, like that's a really simple way to do email. But if you want to be a little more, if you want to be a little more what's the word I'm looking for? It's just slipped my mind If you want to be a little more serious about your email list, I would aim for twice a month. If you can do once a week not everybody, but can particularly if you are out getting a part-time job or something, or you've got kids or you're looking after people that can be tough, but the emails don't have to be long.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:22:00

It could be as simple as just dropping in and saying, hey, I'm super busy this week, but hey, this is what I whipped up in my sketchbook this week, just like behind the scenes stuff, oh yeah. So you know, eat that up.

Heather Travis: 1:22:13

And I forget that, the stuff that I share that people move on my Instagram. I'm like fuck, I'm giving this away free, constantly to just any rando who lands on my stories. I love the community that I've got there, but it's literally for free for any rando who could tap into it and I forget to translate all of that. Awesome and that's one of my goals for 2024 is to figure out how I can take the energy and fun and freedom of those behind the scenes on my Instagram stories and bring that over into my email, because I know for a fact there's people who only interact with me via email.

Heather Travis: 1:22:54

That is the only way they hear for me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:22:57

There's yeah. Yeah, social media is not what it was Like. I feel like we're past the golden age of social media, if that makes sense. Still important, still need to be there, still need to show up, but it's not like it was three, four or five six years ago where it was the cash cow right. It was just basically showed up when people followed you.

Heather Travis: 1:23:18

Yeah, it's not like that it's not the 1950s. You're not the Avon lady. You need to actually work for it now.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:23:25

So definitely yeah, if you can commit to an email strategy. And the thing is, once you get consistent with it and what that consistency is, again, once a month, twice a month, once a week, whatever the consistency is, just try and stay consistent with it and you'll see results. It's very rare that I don't sell anything when I send an email out. Almost every email results in at least one purchase from me, even if it's just a $5.

Heather Travis: 1:23:52

Which is amazing.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:23:53

Yeah, like I don't get that return on social media and my social media following is much bigger than my email list.

Heather Travis: 1:24:02

Oh my gosh right, Exactly.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:24:04

But my email list are the people who want to buy for me. They want to hear from me, they're interested. Yeah, and I do stuff like that all the time. You know, I launched something relating to octopuses and sea creatures and I found all the pictures from my sketchbooks. That's always something I've loved to draw since I was a kid. It's fish and crabs and lobsters and things underwater and I pulled out all the sketchbook pages from several years and I put pictures of them in the email. That's all the email was. It's like yeah, I have this new card and here's what inspired it. It's like 10 years of octopus sketch. It's amazing and it's a super simple email.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:24:45

And so the yeah, just brainstorm a bunch of ideas so that you always have a list next to your desk of things you can do. And we've done an episode on, I think it's like 20 plus ways you can email your list without being super salesy. Specifically for creatives, I'll put a link to that in the show notes. If you sign up for our email list, for the podcast email list, you will get a free download of 25 ways you can email your list without being salesy. So if you want to head over to and she looked upcom notice how I'm sliding that in there. You know, yeah, see, this is how you do it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:25:20

This is how you do it you slide it in.

Heather Travis: 1:25:22

and I think the key thing was you actually spelled out the need for the sales pitch, so like it's not a you didn't just say, oh, and, by the way, and I'm selling toilets over here and you're like wait what, Sorry, you get from A to B?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:25:39

Yeah, you always want to have a nice smooth segue into what you want people to get and, honestly, I wasn't going to. That wasn't part of the spiel today.

Heather Travis: 1:25:48

No, but it fits so perfectly. You couldn't help yourself and that's what you totally, and that's when it slides out naturally. That's like that's easy selling.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:25:58

That is, that is how you sell. It should just slide out naturally. It should just be like part of the narrative, right, totally. It doesn't have to be awkward and weird, no, yeah.

Heather Travis: 1:26:10

And I even have this in person. I never intend to be the like. Oh yeah, I would love to paint a mural in your house, but I'll tell you, if you're just passionately talking about what you do, you'd be like you sell yourself so easily.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:26:22

Have you ever thought about it? That's exactly it.

Heather Travis: 1:26:24

And so like have you thought about that? God, I would just build up, come in here and throw some paint around. When it's coming from your being, it is so much easier for people to be like, yeah, it would be so cool to have you paint a mural in here, as opposed to be like hello. My name is Heather Lynn Travis and I paint murals and I was wondering if you have a wall that I could maybe paint a mural on. I hear you talk to you about your mural needs today. I'm sorry to talk to you about your mural needs today. Do you have five minutes? Here's my brochure, exactly Like. It's not that it needs to happen organically and enthusiastically, I think, is the key.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:27:00

And that's what your enthusiasm looks like. And that's why doing these in-person things is so important, because that's when people see the enthusiasm ooze out of you, they can tell that it's not just a sales pitch. They can tell like you're genuinely like oh my God, this wall is amazing, like you exactly feature wall. We should do something with this. What should we do Exactly? Yeah, and they see that and people get. When people see other people being passionate about something, that passion runs over to them and they get excited and you're like this is an amazing wall. I never thought of that. We should paint something. Like let's paint something and it's just, it's excitement and everybody gets excited, and that really is so hard to convey in the same way, when everything's online.

Heather Travis: 1:27:50

Really difficult. I can add as many exclamation marks as I want to my emails. There is no way that you are getting the understanding of my enthusiasm. I could just send an email that's just exclamation marks and it still wouldn't capture it. Absolutely All caps, exclamation marks just doesn't capture it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:28:09

Absolutely exclamation marks and that kind of leads into the one of the very last things we were talking about when it comes to doing markets and things like that that you want to carry over into 2024 is that it is about building those relationships and adding that value, and that is something you're going to want to focus on for 24. How can I add value? Not, you don't have to add value in a way that it costs you a ton of money, but how can you add value in a way that makes your customers or clients feel like you get them, like that's what value adding value should be. It's like, wow, she gets me, like she just knew that I needed this extra thing. It wasn't in my head but, yeah, you know what.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:28:54

You're absolutely right. That would make so much sense if I did this or if I got that. So yeah, sit down and brainstorm. Adding value is part of the relationship building process and the relationship building process is part of the value add process. They're very intertwined and holding hands.

Heather Travis: 1:29:18

And it's so simple. I'm trying to think of you. Know, when you get the text from a friend that's just out of the blue, that says, just wanted to say I've been thinking about you, like something. Or saw your post on Instagram today, made me smile, just something so sweet. And you're like that little moment that took nothing. Literally nothing means so so much.

Heather Travis: 1:29:42

And so how can you make those moments happen for your business? And it could be the sharing the octopus sketch, from seeing the behind the scenes, seeing it to somebody's sketchbook. That's a revealing thing. And you just shared that moment with your followers. And that moment of connection, that opening the page, could have been that little text that meant just the little world of difference to that person in the day. Or the little hand written thank you card that comes along with the thing that you send in the package. Or it's the timeliness of your response to their email inquiry on your website and the winky faces that you include in the note. Like it's the like. I think.

Heather Travis: 1:30:23

To me this is the year. It's like twofold. The creativity owes no bounds, because we actually had to force ourselves to be creative because of restraint. And then what little tiny thing can I do. That will make a big big and what just small? Make things more meaningful every time I do them. And is that just an extra thank you note or is it I don't know the chance to win a freebie? Is it extra things that they're getting in my e-news, like what's the little thing? And it could be a whole host of little things that you sprinkle out all over the time right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:30:59

We did a whole episode on this, on how to surprise and delight your customers. We'll link to that in the show notes too. My goodness, we're just like firing off Like we got this. We got this. We're adding value all over the place today, heather. Yes, yes.

Heather Travis: 1:31:13

Totally accidentally too.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:31:15

It is we, I don't even have. I always have a list of notes for every episode before I record and normally I have in my head like episodes that are related and I go and I find the episode numbers that I can speak intelligently about them during the episode. I didn't have a single episode listed for this one, so that's why I'm not giving episode numbers right now, because I don't have them in front of me, but they will be in the show notes, but they just.

Heather Travis: 1:31:38

it comes to us as we're talking. It comes as much as we can. But that's.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:31:41

That is how you add value. It's just like you know what you've got, this thing. There's also this thing. It directly relates to what we're talking about, Like, you know, check it out, kind of thing. So yeah, and I know selling is really hard for so many of us. I don't enjoy it, Heather, I think you're much better at it than I am, but I don't know how comfortable you are with it. We've never actually talked about that, but there's an episode right there.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:32:08

Yeah, I am not comfortable with it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:32:11

I feel like you're more comfortable with it because you are so much better at it than me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:32:15

But you know, I know that for so many creatives like you know we just did the recent episode with Michelle Maddie is the photographer we're talking about like stepping into the frame and taking up space and not being afraid to show ourselves and what we do, and so we want to hide away as much as possible, but selling is really about coming out and getting into the frame and showing up and being your amazing, awesome self, because that is really what is going to be at the heart of those relationships that you're building and building that trust and building that excitement.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:32:55

And as you get more comfortable with it, the selling becomes easier because it is natural. You're not just showing up out of nowhere to tell people that you're having a sale and they need to buy from you. Like if that's the only time you show up outside of your work, that's a problem. That's when you start to have problems and when people don't pay attention. They're like you know, because it's like who is this person again? Like they don't recognize you. They recognize your art, maybe, but they don't recognize you and you're telling them to go why?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:33:28

So, yeah, I think yeah, that's all very important so honestly.

Heather Travis: 1:33:34

I mean, I've started thinking of my Instagram as like a young and the restless, like people just need to sit down and get their little dose of me every day. And you know, every day we see a new little scene and that's what they're getting, because it's like habitual right. And so if they're constantly seeing, and then all of a sudden I'm like guess why you can buy something cool today.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:33:58

I'm just laughing because I just watched the Friends episode where Joey comes back to days of our lives and he's taking over for Susan Sarandon. Her brain is going to be put into the body and so, like you know, Heather, as long as it doesn't get that far fetched, Heather, I think you're good.

Heather Travis: 1:34:14

Oh my God. I mean, my brain is crazy and my world is a little lopsided sometimes, but yeah, that's pretty funny, yeah. But like I, you know, I just think that to me, there is so much to, regardless of recession, heading into 2024, sitting down, thinking about your objectives, thinking about your goals, thinking about the supplies you have, thinking about the money you have or don't have. That is so critical. Whether you're headed into, like the best, everybody like somehow just has an extra million dollars in their bank account because of some weird glitch or we're headed into a recession.

Heather Travis: 1:34:55

It needs to happen regardless, and I think the art that you're going to make is going to happen regardless as well. I think let's remind ourselves of that. If it's going to come out of you, if you're going to write the book, if you're going to make the thing, draw the thing, sew the thing, whatever, if it's meant to come out of you, it's going to come out of you, whether it's a recession or not. So if you plan your business all around, making sure that whatever comes out of you will land in the safest cradle, then that's all you can do, right? Yeah?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:35:26

exactly you know sort of the start of hurricane season and been watching some stuff on the news with people they were expecting Was it Hurricane Lee that was supposed to hit?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:35:38

Oh yeah, that it led to Canada last week and it wound up not being, I think, as bad as they had initially said. But they were interviewing people on the news prior to it and they were just saying you know what? We have prepared as much as we can prepare, like. There's a lot of comfort in that, and that's exactly what we're just trying to say today is that prepare as much as you can prepare. It will make you feel so much better and more confident and stronger in what you're doing, because we can't foresee everything that's going to happen. We just can't.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:36:11

But the more prepared you are, the better you feel about things. It's just it takes up less mental space. It's like I've done everything I can do, so there's no point in worrying about this or stressing over this thing, because I've I've nailed my pricing, I've trimmed my expenses, I'm getting creative with what I'm going to do, I'm blowing out inventory, I'm cleaning everything up and I'm I am prepared like bring on the storm, ok, because I'm yes, I'm as ready as I'm going to be, and so, yes, that's what we're trying to do, well and honestly, just this, as we're talking, this is the beginning of the episode that you and I recorded about my exhibition, in that luck is where preparation meets opportunity and and there were so many random things that happened to align to make my exhibition happen.

Heather Travis: 1:37:05

And if things hadn't been, if there hadn't been ducks in a row, if the preparation hadn't been there, the opportunity wouldn't have presented itself. And so, like, make yourself open to as many opportunities by preparing yourself, and like, the magic will happen. Yeah it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:37:23

Just treat this as a chance to get back to basics in your business and do all the things that we should be doing all the time anyway, but we don't. When things are going well, it's easy to let things get sloppy because the money's coming in, and so we very often do get a bit sloppy about certain things. But now's the time to tighten up, tighten the hatches Back down.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:37:44

Yes exactly, yeah, tighten all those things up and, and then you can get back to work. You can get back to work doing what it is you do best creating amazing things and putting them out there for the world to enjoy. So, yeah, I hope this episode was was helpful. I hope it wasn't doom and gloom, because that was not our intention. We really wanted to give you guys, you know before worn being forewarned is forearmed, right, and that's what we wanted to do. Yes, for you, so that you're not. If you start prepping for 2024 now, knowing what's probably going to be coming, then you know it's way better than a pandemic which we didn't know was coming and then just boom, yes, you know. But think about the pandemic and how creative everyone got.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:38:27

People were pivoting left, right and center and a lot of people did really well during the pandemic because they were willing to like figure it out, like, like it's so, yeah. So you know, this is another opportunity to like Tighten things up, pivot, if you need to, and make magic happen. Totally All right. Yes, heather, thank you very much. I know this is the last minute topic and we kind of it wasn't what we were, no, but we will come back to that for a future episode.

Heather Travis: 1:39:00

It's been. Honestly, this has been on my mind and when you email me, I'm like, yes, perfect, this has been on my mind, brian, and I talk about it. We own a retail store you both are.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:39:08

Let's talk about reducing inventory levels.

Heather Travis: 1:39:10

Yeah, we have, we are preparing and this is. This is an. It's been on my mind, it's been on your mind and, as you said in the intro, there have been so many people having this conversation so it feels silly for us to not talk about it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:39:21

Yeah, I mean, one of the shocking things to me was how many people were coming up and saying my sales are down, is this happening to anyone else? And we're very unaware of why sales were down. And there were some nasty comments, to be honest, like have you even looked at the news? Or like how can you not know what's going on? Like people can't pay their mortgage, or whatever you know. Yeah, calm down people. It's calm down. Yes.

Heather Travis: 1:39:43

Be nice.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:39:44

Good Lord, I know Social media is a rough place to be when people are stressed out. So, yes, yeah, so anyway, here you are. You're forewarned. Now forearm yourself. Yes, get on with things. Ok, that is it for this week, everyone. I will be back in another two weeks with another new episode. Heather will be back soon and we will talk about going viral and whether that's a good thing or bad thing.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:40:10

And then are you prepared to go viral? So that'll be a fun episode when we record that, and thank you all so much for listening this week and I will talk to you all soon. Thank you so much for joining us for the Anshi LookDepth Creative Hour. If you're looking for links or resources mentioned in this episode, you can find detailed show notes on our website at anshilookdepthcom. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter for more business tips, profiles of inspiring Canadian creative women and so much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the show via your podcast app of choice so you never miss an episode. We always love to hear from you, so we'd love it if you'd leave us a review through iTunes or Apple Podcasts. Drop us a note via our website at anshilookdepthcom or come say hi on Instagram at anshilookdepth. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.