EP146: So, You Think You're Ready to Go Viral?

We've all thought about how great it would be to have a piece of content go viral on social media. There's that whisper deep down that if we could just get a million eyeballs on our business, everything would change - for the better. But what really happens when you go viral? And are you - and your creative business - actually prepared for it if it happens? Melissa and Heather dive into "going viral" and share two very different case studies!

This is a great episode for creatives who:

• wonder what makes content go viral
• wonder what actually happens when a video or post goes viral - does it change everything?
• want to make sure they're prepared if content does go viral
• wonder if you need viral content for your business to succeed

We tackle all of these concerns and more! Tune in to find out how!

This episode is brought to you by Fine Lime Designs Illustrations

For a summary of this episode and all the links mentioned please visit:
Episode146: So You Think You're Ready to Go Viral?

You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns.

You can find Heather at heatherlynnetravis.com or on Instagram @heathertravis.

Transcript

Melissa Hartfiel: 0:00

This week's episode of the And She Looked Up podcast is brought to you by Fine Lime Illustrations. If you love quirky, colorful art transformed into fun handmade stationery items pretty much guaranteed to brighten somebody's day that's just what you'll find in my new online shop at finelimeillustrations dot com. That's fine, as in I'm fine, lime, as in the fruit, illustrations dot com. Browse the entire collection or sign up for my email list to see some behind the scenes peeks into my studio. You'll also get first notice of new product launches and subscriber only sales, and as an added little bonus, you'll also receive a free coloring sheet to help you relax and de-stress from your day. Now on with the show.

Melissa Hartfiel: 0:58

Welcome to the And s Looked Up podcast. Each week, we sit down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. I'm your host, Melissa Hartfiel, and after leaving a 20 year career in corporate retail, I've been happily self-employed for 12 years. I'm a graphic designer, an illustrator and a multi-six figure a year entrepreneur in the digital content space. This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the And Looked Up podcast. As always, I am your host, Melissa, and I am back this week with the amazing Heather Travis. Hello, heather,.

Heather Travis: 1:57

Hello Melissa.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:59

And today we are going to be talking about virality, going viral and we have a lot of stuff to talk about in this episode, and I think the thing that I would like to ask you all to think about as we are doing this episode is to think about your creative business and what might happen to you if you were to go viral tomorrow. Do you think that you are ready for it? So that is the big question to ask yourself. But before we dive into this week's episode, I do just want to remind everyone that, if you are not already, you can become a premium subscriber to the podcast. It costs about $3 US a month, which works out to around $5 a month Canadian, but exchange rates can change that from month to month. But with that, you get an exclusive bonus episode every month that I record, and you can join our premium subscriber group either through our Patreon or directly here on Buzzsprout, and I will put links to both of these in the show notes. So when you support the podcast, it helps us to pay for our podcast hosting fees, which are separate from our website hosting fees. We have to have a place to put the podcast and it helps pay for our website hosting and for newsletter service and all the other expenses that come with running a podcast. So it is greatly appreciated when you do, and we've got a lovely little club of people who are who join us every month for an extra episode, and sometimes I even do a second episode if I have something on my mind that I just feel like sharing. So, yes, if you would like to join us with that now would be a great time and it is very much appreciated. All of you who are already subscribed, thank you so much. It goes a long way to keeping this podcast going.

Melissa Hartfiel: 4:09

So, on that note, Heather, we're going to talk about going viral today, and this is really interesting. This is an episode Heather and I actually wanted to do last season, but we ran out of time and shortly after I had broached the idea with her, heather and her husband both had social media posts go viral within a week of each other. So this is we wouldn't. If we had recorded when we wanted to, we wouldn't be able to include your experiences, but because we were behind the eight ball on that one, now we get the extra benefit of hearing about those experiences from you, and I think they were actually quite different experiences as well, so, but it was just funny that literally within a week of each other, this happened for you, and so, yeah, why don't we start with that? Why don't we talk a little bit about what happened for you and then what happened for Brian? So maybe tell us you had I believe it was a. Was it a story or a reel?

Heather Travis: 5:19

No, both For both of us it was a reel, which is what makes it kind of an interesting apples to apples to apples story. But it's really not an apples to apples story, despite the friendly husband wifey competition that may have arisen as a result of this. But I think the thing for me that's most fascinating about this is that it challenges me on what do you define as viral? Because, like, what is viral, viral is reaching how many people? Millions, tens of thousands, like what's viral? What's viral for me versus what's viral for you. Anyway, I find it all very fascinating.

Heather Travis: 5:57

Both of us was was reels. Brian's was only a 14 second reel capturing a really random funny moment, sort of a customer's idiot, sort of headbanging hysterical moment. And then for me, mine was a 34 second shart prompt. So, for those of you who are unfamiliar, on Saturday mornings I host a live Instagram art class called Shart with Heather shitty art class for adults, et cetera, and I wanted to take a summer hiatus, so I was recording, pre-recording reels and sharing the reels as a prompt, and then they both, both videos we'll call them that reels kind of went a little nuts out. Do you want data?

Melissa Hartfiel: 6:40

Yeah, well, let's get into that. So you have an art business and Brian has a bricks and mortar retail business.

Heather Travis: 6:49

And service business.

Melissa Hartfiel: 6:50

So yeah, retail and service combined. Yes, so very different businesses. Yes, your reel was directly related to your business, correct, Brian's?

Heather Travis: 7:03

not so I mean it was a customer situation, but I remember so it directly relates to his business and industry, but it had really nothing to do with any. I mean, we sell the product at our shop, but the customer had put we had asked the customer to bring their bicycles the trainer that they ride their bicycle, indoor bicycle on into the shop. And rather than disassembling the trainer from the bicycle, the person managed which is like a miracle in engineering how it worked but somehow got the bicycle with the trainer onto the back of their car and made it all the way to the bike shop. And when he pulled into the driveway, Brian immediately was like hold, I need to record this, nobody will believe me. And then when he came home, he's like you need to set this to music, you need to make this real. This is too good not to share.

Melissa Hartfiel: 7:52

And so the trainer is really heavy

Heather Travis: 7:55

Yes, and like it should not like the fact that this it even made it out of the house, let alone the car ride and is nothing is broken. It's like putting your peloton bike on the back of your car. It really is Like it was the most shocking feat of engineering. And also, yes, Brian learned a lesson in clear communication to customers that day. Yeah, yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 8:19

So but for the average person watching the video, the reel would they have it wouldn't necessarily have twigged that this was a bicycle business or anything like that and it literally could have been.

Heather Travis: 8:28

It could have been any from. You know there was just music in the background. There was no language barrier, and so you know it was just cinematic music in the background. There was no English or other language being used. It was very obviously just a I'll use like a fail video. That's what it was. Like a hashtag, fail video or fail moment or whatever the kids are calling it these days. That's all it was, whereas mine was very clearly like I'm Heather Lynn Travis and here's a shirt, prompt and here's what you're going to do and here's the activity and I guided you through. We'll call it a storyboard. As a content creator that I had thought through from start to middle to end with a purpose of sharing deliberately Like it was deliberately made content, deliberately for my business versus Brian's.

Melissa Hartfiel: 9:18

Yeah, I think that's a pretty important distinction for people to realize. So I think one of the things that people, one of the things I see popping up a lot in groups and with clients and things, is I want to create viral videos, I want, I want to hire a VA who makes viral videos and it's like what is the viral video? I think this is really interesting is you created something very specific to your business, branded to your business, and Brian's was more of capturing a funny moment that happened around his business but isn't necessarily about promoting his business. So two very different types of reels. So how many views did yours wind up getting?

Heather Travis: 9:59

So mine ended up getting not huge, but just over 17,000 views. So again, define viral.

Melissa Hartfiel: 10:09

My normal real, compared to what you normally get so normal.

Heather Travis: 10:12

real for me would be between a thousand and 3000 people.

Melissa Hartfiel: 10:18

So this was exponentially larger.

Heather Travis: 10:21

It got shared 198 times, which normally, if I was getting shares, it would be five, six, seven, 10. And it got saved 202 times. But the analytic that actually is the most fascinating for me is that over the time that the own, those 17,000 views, were happening, I gained over 1200 new followers, and I haven't lost them since. So I've stayed at that number, which is the most fascinating to me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 10:54

Yes, it is, because I don't think any two reels have the same kind of engagement. It's different for every one.

Heather Travis: 11:03

So Brian's video got almost three quarters of a million views, so it was 750,000. It was shared almost as many times as mine was viewed almost 17,000 shares, saved over a thousand times. But he got maybe 50 new followers Interesting.

Melissa Hartfiel: 11:26

So outpaced you tremendously when it comes to views, but when it came to keeping those people, you were the winner. If we're going with winner, and loser?

Heather Travis: 11:39

I guess yes, and what's fascinating is he created just a moment that was worth being shared, regardless of if you're interested in bicycles even at all.

Melissa Hartfiel: 11:49

It was just a funny moment. It was just a funny moment.

Heather Travis: 11:52

Correct, whereas mine was. A lot of people commented did this woman just say shart, like, is she really serious? Is this, you know? Which also, side note, really hysterically confuses me when people talk about me on my own video like I'm not there, like that kills me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 12:11

Anyway, that is one of the things that happens when you go viral, though Fascinating Like you're not there, Literally.

Heather Travis: 12:17

I'm like this is me, hello, you're talking to me. Yes, she knows, I am she, anyway, so that it was like a humor, but it was still an art directed Like people were still connecting with I'll call it the business driver. The reason I created the content is what attracted people to my account and, I guess, has kept them kept them there, but I have not had any other content go near that far since, like I'm back down to the thousand 3000 views. I didn't get any newsletter subscribers.

Melissa Hartfiel: 12:50

I was just going to be my next question. You got 1200 new followers. That's a lot of new followers, especially on Instagram today. There was a time where getting 1200 new followers wasn't that difficult. Today, that is a pretty big follower hit in such a short period of time. That's very hard to keep. So out of all those followers, how many wound up subscribing to your newsletter list?

Heather Travis: 13:16

Not one of them, and not one of them bought anything on my website.

Melissa Hartfiel: 13:22

Did any of them attend any of your your chart classes that you do?

Heather Travis: 13:26

So I saw future chart classes pick up in viewership, so the reels got more views. We're back to doing lives now. The numbers have climbed. For lives, I have new people joining the activity, which is wonderful, but I have made no more money I have and what I would call a hard lead. So people signing up for my newsletter has not happened. And the same thing with Brian. He had no new customers walk into the bike shop, as I said, like it was maybe 50 new followers, like it was nothing tangible in terms of followers for him and made no sales. And in fact interestingly enough just a note for social media managers all of the companies that were involved in the fail that Brian shared, to which they triumphed PS, like this, was a fail, but your product succeeded where everybody thought it should fail. So it's a failure on the customer's part, not the product. Not one of those brands shared the content.

Melissa Hartfiel: 14:35

So that's that is really interesting. So one of the things that I think is interesting about this is you are an online business that can be accessed from anywhere in the world, but Brian is a bricks and mortar mortal Bricks and mortar.

Heather Travis: 14:49

He is a mortal too as well. Yeah, yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 14:52

Is a bricks and mortar business in a small town, yeah, so I think it's quite possible that a lot of people did check him out but then realized, oh OK, this is a business that's in an area I'm never going to go visit and so maybe they didn't follow him. So I think that is something to consider when you're thinking about this is, you know, it's great if you get seen by a million people, but if you are somewhere, like, how many of those million people are actually in your customer area, right, yeah, and are going to shop with you and with a bike shop, it's a lot harder to be an online store, right, totally.

Heather Travis: 15:34

Totally. Most of your customers are in person.

Melissa Hartfiel: 15:36

They're not buying bikes online, and I don't know if Brian even has an online component to the shop.

Heather Travis: 15:41

No, but don't deliberately to be the to be the retail shop that you want to come to. Yeah, exactly.

Melissa Hartfiel: 15:46

And so and we should mention that Brian has been has won Is it Ontario's best bike shop?

Heather Travis: 15:54

One of one of Canada's best bike shops. Seven years after.

Melissa Hartfiel: 15:57

Yes, so like he has a great shop. People, if you are in, Owen. Sound in Ontario. Go check him out. But so there he got a little promotion from the spiral. Yes, but I think that is something to think about. You know, he's not a bike shop in Toronto or Vancouver, he's in a smaller location that has a big tourist market in the summer. Yeah, and so it's yeah very different.

Melissa Hartfiel: 16:23

Cool that he had a video go and get you know as 50,000 views, but that is something you need to think about. If you, if you run a bricks and mortar store, is how many of those people can legitimately become your customers.

Heather Travis: 16:37

So you know, what was really interesting for Brian was the when was the cut? That, as the feed kept pumping out views and you'd get notifications, he literally was like this is doing my business a disservice. It's cluttering my feed and notifications so deeply that I can't actually respond to the people who, yes, matter to me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 17:00

And we're going to talk about that as we get into the episode, because that is one of the things you have to be prepared for when you go by, yeah, yeah. So this is a really interesting comparison, and it is really interesting to know that neither of you has actually financially benefited from this, although I do think you are in a pretty good position. You've brought 1200 new people into your ecosystem. They haven't gone as far into your ecosystem as you want, but they haven't left it either. So now you are in this area, in this, what I would consider like a nurture mode, your job right now is to nurture those people, to eventually get them.

Melissa Hartfiel: 17:41

You know, and this is the thing you have to think about when with going viral is and I really think this is where Instagram is at period, at this point I don't feel like Instagram is a great attract vehicle anymore, but it is a very good nurture vehicle.

Melissa Hartfiel: 17:59

And, yes, and this kind of gets into the episode I did for our subscribers in November is, stop worrying about your follower, about new followers, and start worrying about that. Already follow you. You know, sort of like yes, home company, right, they're always trying to, yes, your mobile companies, always trying to get people into the ecosystem, but the people who are already there, they completely ignore them and piss them off and they wind up moving. Yes, you know so anyways, yes, so, when I do think, one of the things to think about is that there are different levels of going viral, and I was trying to think of a way to kind of explain this to people who are wanting to go viral. And I think all of us have wanted to go viral at some point, whether we want to admit it or not.

Melissa Hartfiel: 18:42

So some people are very upfront about the fact that they want to go viral and others of us are like no, I don't need that. But secretly they're like, yeah, they would be nice. Anyway, the way I kind of came up to think about it is imagine if you are a writer or a musician and for a lot of writers and musicians you can self publish today, just like anyone can start an Instagram account and get their content out there. But for a lot of writers and musicians, they want that traditional publishing deal or that traditional record deal, because there is still a cache with that. That, that is, you've made it and only a fraction of writers and musicians, a tiny, tiny fraction actually get that deal. And so once you've got your publishing deal or your record deal, that's kind of like one level of going viral, like you've hit that big milestone marker that a lot of your peers will never achieve. But just getting that record deal or that publishing deal doesn't necessarily do anything for your bottom line. It doesn't necessarily earn you any money, it doesn't necessarily get you seen by more people, it's just, yeah, it happened and wow, that's great. Then, out of all those people who do get the deal. Only a teeny tiny percentage of them become the next Taylor Swift or John Gershman, or Daniel Steele, or these authors and musicians that are just known by their last names or first names.

Melissa Hartfiel: 20:23

How many Taylor Swift's are out there? There's one, taylor Swift. There's nobody else really doing close to what she's doing these days, but that would be like the ultimate going viral. Oh my God Right. She's filling stadiums, she's selling merch, she's putting out movies, she's doing everything, and you've got John Grisham, whose books are turned into movies. Now, the cool thing with John Grisham he has the freedom to write what he wants. Now he writes all these other genres and stuff because he's earned that right, and I think that's another really important thing to think about. When these people go viral with a capital V, it doesn't mean they work any less. I would say Taylor Swift is one of the hardest working women in the world, correct?

Heather Travis: 21:12

And.

Melissa Hartfiel: 21:12

I would say John Grisham falls into that category too, and all the other people like that. They work their asses off because they realize that having that one thing go viral doesn't equal a career or a business. It's just a one-time shot. So I think that's a good way to kind of think about what going viral can do. A lot of people will be like Heather and Brian and get umpteen times more views than they normally do, but it doesn't necessarily translate into millions of dollars coming in.

Heather Travis: 21:50

No, no, nothing. Even tens of dollars coming in, no even tens of dollars. Nothing, Not a zip zelch. All it did. All it did was fuel a little healthy competition it was fun.

Melissa Hartfiel: 22:01

It was fun yeah.

Heather Travis: 22:03

Well, and I'll tell you because Melissa and I had talked about this episode before the experience happened, we were constantly paying attention. You know, as business owners ourselves, we were looking at the data constantly and saying, okay, did you get a new followers though? So 250 new shares today, great, 100 new followers, nope, interesting, okay. And then even keeping those people, like that nurture business. That's that to me that I would argue. If you're trying to go viral, you need to actually backtrack and think what do I need to do to nurture people if I go viral? Yeah, if you're trying to nurture, then it is to go viral like nurture meaningfully and keeps those people. Yes.

Melissa Hartfiel: 22:47

So let's get into what happens when you go viral. Like, what are you ready? The question I asked you all to think about as you were listening to this episode is, if you were to go viral tomorrow, are you prepared for it? Because I think there's a lot of things that happen that you don't even realize are going to happen and you're not prepared for them. And so, yeah, it's great to want to go viral. To actually go viral and have to deal with it is a whole other thing. So, yeah, and you learned that firsthand, so it was really interesting and that's actually how this episode came about. I was listening to a podcast with somebody who had gone viral and said it was not. It had been financially beneficial to her, but it was not what she was expecting and not what she was prepared for and not, ultimately, the best thing for her business. So, yeah, I thought that was a very interesting way to look at it, because we always assume it's going to be a good thing for our business.

Heather Travis: 23:50

Yeah, and, honestly, like that terrified me the thought of having to manufacture prints quickly. It terrified me the thought of losing the sort of fun element of, like small batch making. Like, when you and I started talking about this episode, I got extreme amounts of anxiety and like felt sick to my stomach. And I remember, funny enough, you had texted me and you were like, what about an episode of? And I literally respond I'm like this makes me feel sick to my stomach. I know this is now, though I don't feel sick to my stomach. In fact, I'm like, ok, what would I do if I would go?

Heather Travis: 24:27

Because I'll tell you categorically, unless you have some like fricking miracle of miracles, the likelihood that you're going to sell out your entire Etsy shop or all of your paintings are going to sell to more because of something going viral is so fricking slim to none. Like so slim to none that it's not. It's not making sure you have a whole inventory of prints and supplies and shipping supplies. It's making sure you know what you want out of your business. And like the business model. And what am I making content for and who am I making content for?

Melissa Hartfiel: 25:05

Yeah, I mean, this is the thing I already mentioned. There's a lot of people out there who say they want to hire a VA viral video, so let's talk about that first. How, how do you know what's going to go viral? Like, did you have any inkling, or did Brian have any inkling that the content you posted was going to be the thing that went viral?

Heather Travis: 25:24

No, and in fact, funny enough and this I do have to kick myself, is that? So? For my previous shirt reels which I had been making I'd made a number of them before this one went viral, viral, defined viral, but blew up bigger than the others I mapped out my outfit more carefully. I had it scripted more carefully. I in fact probably re-recorded the episode, so to speak, multiple times to get it just right. And that week I had sort of scripted it out, but I was running short on time and I literally, as I encourage people when we're sharding I just sharded the episode out.

Heather Travis: 26:04

I came upstairs into my studio hit record and just got it done. It was one of the shortest reels that I made out of shot prompts. It was the one that I gave the least amount of preparation to. It was still mapped out, it was still on brand, it still had a target audience, it still was on my business plan of things that I wanted to do, but I took the least amount of time to make it, put the least amount of energy into doing it and somehow it just went.

Heather Travis: 26:34

Yeah, and Brian was just capturing a funny moment in his life and literally it was, and all I said to him was I'm so glad you even thought in the moment to just capture the video. Yeah, and he, literally he was like nobody. I just took the video because nobody would believe me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 26:51

Yes.

Heather Travis: 26:51

Was the yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 26:54

Yeah, and I hear this over and over again I don't think there is a way to plan a viral video. I know there's a lot of gurus out there who are willing to sell you a course on how to make a viral video, but I don't think you know what's going to capture people in that moment.

Heather Travis: 27:09

And I think it's a moving target.

Melissa Hartfiel: 27:10

I think it depends on what's going on in the world. I think it depends on how people are feeling. I think there's definitely times where people are looking for something really silly and funny. There's other times where they're just looking for something creative. Let's be honest, the fact that you use the word sharp probably is what helped get your scene, because it's a silly word.

Heather Travis: 27:31

But I've been using it for a year, I've been using it for two years, like that's the thing that kills me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 27:36

You don't know when it's going to hit right, like it could have hit the first time you used it. Yes, but, it didn't it hit two years later. And you could have given up on that name in the middle, oh yeah.

Heather Travis: 27:47

Because it's just no, it's still a goal in life. When you look up sharp in the dictionary is to have my name underneath it. That's a goal, it's still.

Melissa Hartfiel: 27:54

yeah, exactly, you wouldn't have given up on it because it's just part of your branding at this point Correct yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 28:01

So I think that's the thing to think about is that I don't think it's possible to plan a viral video. They just happen. But what you can plan and be prepared for is what to do when it does happen. If you're lucky enough and there are people out there I just want to make this really clear there are people out there, a lot of people out there, running very successful businesses, very successful social media accounts, who have never had viral content. Yeah, don't need it to be successful, it's not required. Okay and no, yeah. So I just want to make that clear.

Melissa Hartfiel: 28:35

If you're feeling like, oh, this is never going to happen for me, it doesn't have to happen for you. So, in terms of being prepared for it, one of the things that I think about a lot is when I'm creating content. If it were to go viral, is there a way for people to know that I was the original creator of that content? Brilliant question yeah, because this is something I see a lot and I think is creatives we're very aware of is when people use our work and don't credit us or talk to us.

Heather Travis: 29:10

Especially with AI now yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 29:12

That's a whole other episode, whole other episode. But I have notes already written for. Oh, yeah, that's for another time. But yes, so there are all kinds of accounts out there very large accounts in terms of follower account that purely survive off of repurposing other people's content. Just like I follow a lot of dog accounts, and there's these dog accounts and they just they don't post anything original, it's just other reels and videos of dogs from other dog accounts around the internet. They just become a curation account. Yeah, and so there's a very good possibility if you have a piece of content go viral that other accounts are going to pick it up, some are going to share it properly so that you get the credit for it and people can see the original account. But a lot of accounts are not and they may not even I see this all the time DM me for credit or whatever, like if you're the original, you know, because they're too lazy to go figure out.

Melissa Hartfiel: 30:12

Yes, and they're just hoping to anyway. So anyway, yep, what is there in your reels or videos, or even your static posts that identifies you as a creator? Is there anything?

Heather Travis: 30:26

You're pretty good at this. That's it, and so it's very interesting that you say that with the shirt. I always hold a sign in front of me that, you know, says Shirt with Heather. It has my Instagram handle and it's very much branded shirt throughout. I have now started trying, particularly with photos of me in my studio. I have a sign for my that I have, you know, when I go work at like trade shows or whatever, and I have it hanging in my studio deliberately and I try and include it so that if it's a picture of me, it's a picture that includes my full name.

Heather Travis: 31:00

But I hadn't thought of that until very recently. Honestly, and and funny enough, I started thinking about it when a friend sent me a reel that it was one of the reels where somebody had it was audio that was obviously not original to that video and I do these all the time like you're pretending to be somebody else. Usually, in my case, it's a celebrity, but the person thought that the voice and the audio was actually me and literally was like this is Heather and she said this and somebody is using her voice and it wasn't me, Thank you, but it wasn't me. But I was like, oh, wow, yes, it didn't even dawn on me that somebody could go in and re-record a shirt, for instance, and take that audio and do their own shirt prompt and pretend to be me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 31:50

Yeah, A great example of that is Tatum the talking dog. I don't know if you follow Tatum, but Tatum talks and his owners are hilarious and he's hilarious. His audio from his videos is used everywhere on Instagram and TikTok, everywhere. I had been hearing the audio clips.

Heather Travis: 32:15

So then I know who it is Before I even realized he's the dog that says hey, lady. Yes, that's exactly what I'm like. I know exactly who that is, hey guy.

Melissa Hartfiel: 32:23

Hey guy. Anyway, he's hilarious, but it was years before I realized this voice actually belonged to a specific account. And once I found the account, now that's where I go to get all the original content. But yeah, had no idea, had no idea. I just thought it was some track on Instagram. Music that you could talk to that you could pick to sync to. So yeah, and Tatum has his own book and he has merch and stuff and so his owners don't. When that content is used elsewhere, his owners are missing out on.

Heather Travis: 33:01

Yeah, there's no royalties in. Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 33:05

So that's something to think about before you go viral is how would people and I think there's a lot of ways to do that? You hold a sign, you have your banner in the background. It could be even just using putting text on top of the reel saying this is me, or with your website address or something. You can also put something in the actual description for the reel, although that may disappear if somebody just Totally need to close the video.

Heather Travis: 33:33

So you have to think about all of that. I don't think anybody reads descriptions in reels anymore. I have done experiments and I've dropped Easter eggs and literally.

Melissa Hartfiel: 33:43

Nothing. Most people don't. I think you're absolutely right, and usually when I do look at the description, I'm looking for a hashtag rather than Right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 33:50

But you never know, so it doesn't hurt to put it in there, but do be aware that the description can be stripped out, so I like to try and put it actually somewhere in the reel, if I can enter, to, which I very often don't. And that's the thing when you do something spur of the moment, like what Brian did, you may not be thinking to put something or make sure that the fork's bicycle shop sign is in the background, or whatever I prefer it.

Heather Travis: 34:19

So no, and even mine it was. So I just needed to get this done. I just needed it off my to-do list. And even a thought out on brand exercise piece of content creation even that I was like get it done, up up up. I didn't think of unique hashtags, I didn't do anything specific to that unique video. It literally was like up up up, get this off my list. Move on to the next thing. I could have done a much better job about trying to do my job, which is, if you're going to make content, think it through, think about who the audience is, think about why you're making it. Is it on brand? Does it align? I could have done a better job doing all of those things and maybe that would have translated to maybe sales, maybe.

Melissa Hartfiel: 35:07

It might not have. It might not have. I don't think so, but yes, you never know Right. And so if you can put something in there that lets people know who you are, do it. I think that's important. Now, you mentioned you got 1200 new followers and Brian had 50, which is quite different. But one of the things you mentioned with Brian is that he actually found it super irritating with all the notifications coming in, because he couldn't, there was no way to filter out the things he really needed to respond to, and so that is something else we all need to think about is when you go viral. I mean, you know what it's like when you pick up your phone and there's 20 DMs or something in there and maybe that's a normal day for you and you're just like this one or you scroll through and you didn't see it, or you forget to answer, or it showed, anyway, lots of things. But imagine, instead of 20, you have 2000 in a 24 hour period, or 20,000 in a 24 hour period. How are you going to cope with?

Heather Travis: 36:18

that, yeah, and how are you going to cope with that Exactly? And how are you going to prioritize again, in terms of that, nurturing? You need to prioritize your existing customers, and so, if you're thinking they like me, they really like me, and you're all excited to be chatting with new people, if you're forgetting about the person who's been through the mud with you you're going to lose a voice, you're going to lose an order for $300, and they're lost because all these people.

Heather Travis: 36:50

That's exactly it. Like you can't, and so you really that again, it's thinking through what are my priorities and if your priorities are, and then that's where you need to be clear in your communications. You need to post your stories and say a video has gone viral. I've had an overwhelming number of responses. My number one priority is my existing customers. You will all be responded to within 24 hours. Everybody else I'll get to you in the next three or four days. Thank you so much for being here, Love me, because otherwise tricky, yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 37:26

Or let people know that, if it's really urgent to contact you through email or through your website or just some way to let them know that, yes, I want to hear from you. I might not be able to see where you're at in my mess of an inbox, but, yeah, that's where you use your other tools too.

Heather Travis: 37:45

If you have an e-newsletter, all of those people probably follow you on Instagram. They probably follow you on multiple platforms, that's if you've blown up on one post the others to speak to your core audience and say hey guys, I hear you, I love you, I'm getting to you, I haven't forgotten about you. You're the most important thing to me. Those are the people who are going to celebrate that success with you, but also remember that you didn't forget them when they became rich and famous Exactly.

Melissa Hartfiel: 38:20

Yeah, absolutely. I think the other important thing to remember with all of this newfound engagement that you're going to get whether it's DMs, comments, shares, whatever there's going to be trolls One of the things about having my 2100 followers or whatever it is on Instagram, is that the people who engage with me are people who like what I do. They're my fans. They're lovely people. I don't get a lot of nonsense on my social media, but the minute other people find you, the nonsense arrives. I just say people can't help themselves, literally. On Sunday, my local community Facebook group, which has about 18,000 people in it so it's not a small group, it's pretty big but we have selling Sundays. It's the only day of the week where you're allowed to post whatever you have for sale, whether it's a garage sale, or whether it's a product or your business or whatever.

Melissa Hartfiel: 39:24

It's very hard to get seen because obviously everyone is posting. I did some special edition Christmas card packs this year. There's three cards and envelopes, but what made them special is the envelopes are all hand illustrated in pen and ink. They were three-packed for $15, which I think it was an extremely nice price. That's a great deal. Anyway, I posted them. I think I have a couple of packs left and I just wanted to get rid of them for the season. One of the very first comments was yeah, this is way too expensive for me.

Heather Travis: 40:06

You can't see my face right now, but I was just like steam would have come out of my ears if I had read that I never post in this group because of all the nonsense that goes on, as it does in all community Facebook groups.

Melissa Hartfiel: 40:23

I just was kicking myself why did I even bother? Because I knew this was going to happen. There was going to be some joker who just needs to make a snotty comment about whatever. When they put a scroll down by, I left a very polite, friendly comment. In the long run, actually, I will say this Because she left that snotty comment and I made a nice reply. It got bumped in the algorithm because most of those posts don't get any comments or likes.

Heather Travis: 40:50

Yeah, that's true, yeah, that's true, yeah, and so I went up actually holding it by.

Melissa Hartfiel: 40:53

Two people pile on and just say I think they're beautiful or it's obvious you put a lot of work in them because they could tell this person had been a jerk. Thanks to that person, I actually wound up getting seen by far more people than I would have Right yeah At the same time, I was irritated, I was very angry.

Heather Travis: 41:11

Yes, and so what's interesting is that's just a mini version, like that, literally Totally. Why did you go viral? Because somebody got pissy, yes, and so like, how are you going to deal with that?

Melissa Hartfiel: 41:24

off this crap? Yeah, they feed off of controversy and snotty comments and people being unkind. Yes, you can say they don't, but it's obvious when I see what's in my feed on a daily basis that this is what gets prioritized. Did I say that right? Yeah, it sounded funny. What gets prioritized, anyways. So, yeah, are you prepared to deal? I mean, this is just one person who said something that wasn't particularly insulting, it was just annoying, but still, my steam and I saw red Right. So are you prepared for 20, 30, 50, a thousand people making really snotty comments or engaging in a snotty way on your content? Yeah, because that's probably going to happen if you go viral, like you mentioned people were talking about you, like you weren't even there.

Heather Travis: 42:16

And that was-.

Melissa Hartfiel: 42:17

And it's not really being a troll, they were just like.

Heather Travis: 42:20

it's like yeah, literally, and I was like dude, this is my Like you're talking about me as if I'm not even in the room. And yet this is I'm not just in the room, this is my fucking room. I made this room Like it's not just me in my room. This is my room and you're talking about me like I don't exist, which I find fascinating, but anyway, it it's like they're at home watching it on television with their phones?

Melissa Hartfiel: 42:44

Yes, and like having a random yes, totally fascinating.

Heather Travis: 42:49

Anyway, I found and honestly most of it was very good conversation or like hysterical, whatever. I chose not to engage. I just liked those comments as myself, because what am I supposed to do? A few people I was like, yes, it's called shirt for a reason and I, like tried to be happy. I did have one person say something that was not kind towards people who have different sexual orientations than I do and I immediately commented and said we don't welcome that language here and you're gonna be blocked and this comment's being deleted. Thank you very much. Like goodbye, because I'm a very I don't. Even so, somebody commenting and saying that's expensive is a different negativity in terms of expanding.

Melissa Hartfiel: 43:39

It wasn't hateful. It wasn't hateful, no, exactly.

Heather Travis: 43:42

Whereas, like I, have a very firm boundary on if I can educate people absolutely. If you're coming here to learn, we can have conversations absolutely. If you're just coming here to do that, I'm coming here to say no and boop, you're gone, you're out of my world. I have a very firm boundary. But that goes back to understanding what my brand is and what it isn't, and where I stand and what I'm willing to draw lines on, particularly when it comes to behavior around things that I myself have created. So I know I can't control the comments and the actions around other people around things that other people have created. I might try my very best, so if something happened to you, I would try my do you know what I mean and chime in and be the supportive internet friend, but it's only my little world that I can control. I can't control anything else, and so you have to know very clearly what this is all back to you and I talk about our branding episode.

Heather Travis: 44:41

Yeah, we have an episode.

Melissa Hartfiel: 44:42

I think every time we talk it was not your brand. We'll go to the show.

Heather Travis: 44:46

Yes, I think every time we talk we flash back to that episode. But it is like your branding is so important and understanding who you are and where you're gonna draw boundaries, and all of that. I think it's so important to the creation of the content and then the managing of the potential virality and all of the things that come along with it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 45:02

So if you are somebody who doesn't have a particularly thick skin and that kind of commenting can be very upsetting to you, think about that as you're posting and just remember that it can happen. And if you get big enough it will happen, and not just when you. I think a lot of us wanna go viral because we want that bigger follower count and bigger engagement.

Melissa Hartfiel: 45:26

But you have to understand the more eyeballs that are on you, the more people who will surface who don't like what you do, and this is just a fact of life. We are not put on this planet to make everyone happy. We will never make everyone happy. We shouldn't even be trying to make everyone happy because it's not possible. But you do need to appreciate the fact that the more people who see your work and see you, the more you're gonna hear from people who don't think you're the bee's knees and you need to have a game plan, particularly if you have precarious mental health or anything like that. We've all had those days where you're having a bad day and if somebody could just say your shoelace is untied and you'll burst into tears, right, because like, oh my God, I just yes been there done that?

Melissa Hartfiel: 46:18

Yes, exactly. So just before you post anything, especially if you schedule content think about that, like think about am I in the mood to handle what might come back at me today? Yeah, some days you might be in a spicy mood and you're totally okay with it. Other days you might just have your line in the sand pants on where you just say, nope, you're out.

Heather Travis: 46:38

You know, but other days.

Melissa Hartfiel: 46:40

There's gonna be days where it's like, oh my God, I can't believe this person said this and you wanna crawl under a rock and disappear from the internet. So think about that kind of stuff, because trolls are out there and they can be vicious and nasty.

Heather Travis: 46:53

Yeah and to me it's like part of that and this, of course, is my PR marketing background but this is like your crisis planning and it's thinking through the what ifs. And if you wanna have a happier analogy than crisis planning, pretend it's like prom and all the things you ever wanted to dream to happen at prom and you go through the what ifs. Well, what if this happens at prom? And how am I gonna deal with that? And what if you know he doesn't pick me up at the door? What if my dress gets ripped? Or what if I end up drinking too much in my barf? How am I gonna deal with all of those things, the scenarios of the what ifs. Think those through.

Heather Travis: 47:26

That's virality and you know you're gonna have to deal with. Yeah, yeah. And again, think about why. If you have ever thought about going viral, think about why you wanted to go viral, and I'm sure that there's a different way you could achieve that end without, maybe, some of the negative things that come from going viral. So if you just want more sales, well then there's lots of ways to achieve that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 47:53

There's lots of ways you can grow your sales. You don't even need social media for that. If you're being really honest, that's exactly it.

Heather Travis: 47:59

So like if you and if you wanna grow your following, well then maybe that's being just more consistent on your Instagram, as opposed to trying to make something surprise that it's gonna go viral. So like there's lots of ways to do things and accomplish your goals without going viral. And if going viral is your only goal, you're not thinking it through. It's your. Yeah, you're not really thinking it through, like, if it's not connected to a business strategy, what's the point?

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:24

Yeah, and on that note, in terms of how you're gonna handle these things, some of the things to think about, like one that I think is probably overlooked tremendously, and you may never need this, but on the off chance that you do is are you prepared for media inquiries?

Heather Travis: 48:45

That's a good one. Yes, Do you have a media kit.

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:47

Like I don't watch the news often, but when I do, it's usually the national on CBC and they do this little segment at the end of every show. It's called the Moment.

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:56

I think, yes, and it was. They started it during the pandemic. It was meant to be kind of a lighthearted moment with all the doom and gloom that was going on. And they've kept it up because I think it's been very popular and very often the moment that they share is something funny or silly. That's happened on social media. That's gone viral. Yes, and they actually contact the creator of the video and have a little interview with them. So what if somebody from CBC's the National called you up? That's a big opportunity, no kidding.

Melissa Hartfiel: 49:28

By people who may not ever be on social media or may not have seen what went viral, and I have actually wound up following several accounts from seeing these, like the follow from Kenya, I think, who saw Snow for the first time after he moved to Canada. Beautiful, have you seen that video? That's so sweet.

Heather Travis: 49:45

That's so beautiful, yes, so beautiful.

Melissa Hartfiel: 49:50

Anyway, yeah, are you prepared to talk to those people? Are you? Do you have a media kit? Because one set of media attention usually brings other media outlets looking to talk to you. So this is a great opportunity to be able to share what it is that you do, what your business is, how people can find you. Yes, free marketing that many of us never ever get on a national newscast yes, and that's just one opportunity. There are lots of other news outlets who do this kind of thing and they want to talk to the original creator. So be prepared. Be prepared to promote yourself. If you have a media kit, that's even better, because then you have to send this off to people and say, yeah, this is who we are and here's a little bit more about us. And it helps their producers know what kind of questions to ask and get you seen in the light, right In the light, right In the right light.

Heather Travis: 50:46

I knew what you meant there.

Melissa Hartfiel: 50:47

Yes. So yeah, and that's another question Are you comfortable being interviewed? Yes, yeah, that's a big one, not Then?

Heather Travis: 50:58

what's going to happen? What's?

Melissa Hartfiel: 50:59

going to happen when we're all in the box?

Heather Travis: 51:02

In your stead, like your spokesperson, like your Coca-Cola, and you have an official spokesperson.

Melissa Hartfiel: 51:08

So think about that. Have you ever had media training? Heather actually gave me my media training years ago. Do you remember that? Yes, I do, and I've done it.

Heather Travis: 51:22

It's exhausting for both the participant and the trainer. It's hard, it's really hard, it's hard work.

Melissa Hartfiel: 51:28

But honestly, one of the best things I ever did for my career as a self-employed entrepreneur was to go through media training and I find it very interesting when I record podcasts I can tell immediately who's been media trained and who hasn't. And media trained people can very easily steal my podcast from me if I'm not careful, because they're so keyed in on their key points and their talking points and what's going to and it's like I have to pull them back in. I'm just like no, no my podcast.

Heather Travis: 51:55

No, we're here to talk about it and that's exactly it, and that's funny enough. But that's what media training can do Immediately. Of course, my brain and this is free media training advice for all of you listening is if you did end up on local media. The key is to talk about what you want to talk about. And so if you went viral for something silly, like something silly paint spilling in your studio and your dog walking through it, right, you don't want the media interview to talk about the dog walking through the paint. You want to talk about all the beautiful artwork you have for sale in your studio and your upcoming event. And isn't it cute that your dog interrupted the core of your business? That's what you want. You want to be a politician and not talk about what question was asked. You want to answer the question that you want to answer.

Melissa Hartfiel: 52:46

Politicians are stars at media training. They never answer any questions directly and that's all media training, correct.

Melissa Hartfiel: 52:54

So not saying you need to be a politician on that level, but it gives you an idea of how to be very focused and very clear on what it is. And it's funny because we did an interview with Zana Reza yes, she's so lovely and she was talking about her very first national television appearance, where she had cue cards written down with her cue cards, and the announcer tore them up and showed them to the audience. So it's important to have it all in your head.

Heather Travis: 53:25

That's too funny. Zana and I share a birthday random fact, oh cool, that's cool.

Melissa Hartfiel: 53:30

Yeah, yeah, very cool.

Heather Travis: 53:32

We learned that on media tours together.

Melissa Hartfiel: 53:36

Yes, I think that's right. You know her as well.

Melissa Hartfiel: 53:38

So, yeah, yeah. So are you prepared for media inquiries? Are you prepared to do interviews? Is your website prepared for an influx of traffic? If that happens, a lot of smaller websites on smaller platforms may not be able to handle it, so that's something to think about, are you? If suddenly your website traffic was 100x, could you deal with it? Yes, last thing you wanted and this used to happen Oprah used to do her favorite thing shows. Yes, so many of those brands were not prepared for what would happen and you try to go to their website and it was just crash after crash.

Melissa Hartfiel: 54:18

And you could never get through. Take days and by then you've forgotten about them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanted to cheat popcorn, but whatever, I've moved on.

Heather Travis: 54:28

Because, people do move on really quickly so that's important, yes, and memory fades right Like you saw it on TV. You saw it cross your Instagram, you forgot to like it, but you saw it, you loved it, and now you can't find it anymore and it's gone all the time.

Melissa Hartfiel: 54:41

All the time, or Instagram refreshes it before you had a chance to.

Heather Travis: 54:44

Yes, just sweet bananas. How often it happened. It's the first thing I see when I reopen the app and I go to like it and then I'm liking some stupid ad from some stupid thing that I didn't even ever want to subscribe to in the first place and I'm like, where did you go? No, yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 55:02

Are you prepared to translate all these new views into customers newsletter subscribers? Think about this. Is it easy for somebody to get from your viral reel to your website? Do you have?

Heather Travis: 55:20

They have to go through a few clicks. Yeah, you have to click from the reel to me to then my bio, to then yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 55:31

If you are an online shop, you can connect your shop with your social profiles. I don't think that translates. Can people shop from reels?

Heather Travis: 55:40

I don't know if they can. It can. Yes, you can add products. You can add products to them. Ok, I believe, I believe you can add products to your grid posts. I'm pretty sure you can add products to reels. I'm almost positive you can.

Melissa Hartfiel: 55:55

So make sure you have that connected so that people can shop, because if they see something this is especially if you do anything that is, you know it might be harder with a big four by four foot painting People might not click on that. But if you sell small things that people will buy on impulse make sure that you've got your shop linked to your social profiles. I don't think TikTok shop is available in Canada yet. I think it's only in the US. But I would assume that's going to come soon and I know a lot of people in the US who have linked their businesses to their TikTok shops are doing very well.

Heather Travis: 56:33

So oh, yes, yeah, just look at the leggings, the TikTok leggings that have gone so viral.

Melissa Hartfiel: 56:40

Yay, so that's another reason to include your URL URL in your post descriptions, your real descriptions, it's just. It's a place for people to find. Absolutely make sure it's in your bio. Yes, yeah, make sure your profiles are shoppable if possible. Have a way to draw people into your newsletter list. That can be hard to do from the original reel, but if you like, I noticed you did this you had a lot of new followers and you did a series of stories where you were like, where you introduced yourself and told them where and how they could come on over to your newsletter list, where you share a lot of other cool things and stuff like that. So you want to make sure you're doing all of that.

Heather Travis: 57:25

And again that's back to branding, Like that's reintroducing yourself, reinforcing your branding.

Melissa Hartfiel: 57:30

So with series of stories, all of it.

Melissa Hartfiel: 57:33

Anytime you get an influx of new followers whether it's from a viral piece of content or it's just been a while pop out and do a post those and show your face in those posts. Yes, I do one a year, like sort of. When I do March Meet the Maker, I do a post in feed with my face saying who I am, and those posts with my face in them always do yeah, way better than yes. They tend to get seen a lot more, and so it's a great way to get people to know who you are and encourage them to Nurture.

Melissa Hartfiel: 58:08

Nurture, nurture nurture and that's definitely like I think we'll wrap up with nurture in a minute here, because I think that's so important. We briefly talked about inventory and things like that, and if you sell on Etsy, you have to be very careful here. If you suddenly your order volume goes up dramatically, etsy has a habit of putting your shop on vacation mode until you fulfill all the orders that are outstanding, and so when that happens, it means that anyone new who lands on your Etsy shop won't be able to order. They won't even be able to see what you have in your shop when you're in vacation mode. Yeah, yeah, if you don't sell on Etsy, you wouldn't know that. No, so that's something I remember when Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away.

Melissa Hartfiel: 59:02

There was a woman in one of my product making groups who made RBG stickers and when she passed away people her sales for that sticker went through the roof and she, her shop got put in vacation mode until she fulfilled all the orders. But she literally had hundreds of them and it was just one sticker Like it wasn't like they were $1,000 orders or anything, they were like $4 orders.

Heather Travis: 59:32

Yeah, but still. But she had hundreds of them, yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 59:35

So yeah, so, as you can throttle your ability to be able to sell, which is another reason why it's not a bad idea to have your own website right, so that if something like that happens, then you can redirect people to your website or that's where you direct them to in the first place, where you have a little more control over. And then, just yeah, how are you going to ship all those orders? Do you have somebody who can come help you? Yeah, right, yeah, if you're a maker, can you get the quantity out there? Now, that's a very that's when you hit that Taylor Swift level of virality.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:00:12

right, that's not going to happen to everybody, but it does happen to people, and you have to have a plan in place. You don't necessarily have to have the inventory on hand, because that would be not a good idea either. But you have to have a plan in place for how you're going to fulfill those orders in a timely manner.

Heather Travis: 1:00:30

Yes.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:00:32

And another example that I'm just going to bring up is I was reading about this woman online somewhere she makes disco ball cowboy hats.

Heather Travis: 1:00:46

I think, oh my God, amazing.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:00:48

Yeah, so they're basically. I may have this wrong, so this is based on whatever it is she makes. Yonsei's team saw them and ordered a couple, and Beyonce wore them on her tour. I think it was a disco ball cowboy hat, so basically it was a cowboy hat that had been decorated with the. Yeah, it's a dress.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:01:10

All handmade and, if I remember correctly, that's all this woman made, and so, of course, beyonce wears something. It's like a blurring something. It's like Taylor Swift Everyone wants it now, and so this woman started getting all these orders and she was fulfilling them as quickly as she could. She brought people on to help her. But the thing to remember is, if you only make one item and it goes viral and it's something like that, what happens when the fad stops? Because once there's only so many people who are going to want a disco ball cowboy hat, it's correct for a very short period of time, until Beyonce wears something else, and then the trend dies and you have to think about you've brought all these people into your ecosystem. They've purchased from you, but how are you going to get them to purchase again? Yes, you want them to purchase again, yep. So that's something to think about too is how do you, what can you do to build a business around? What's happened to you?

Heather Travis: 1:02:16

Yes and like, think about again with me, heather. Back to the branding. But if your brand, if making those hats, was that when you bought one you knew that you were one of 10 people that year to get one of these items and that was a selling feature, that was something that made it unique to the buyer and to you as the seller and maker. And all of a sudden now you're selling hundreds of them, I would feel duped. As an original buyer, not OK. You've devalued our relationship right. And then as somebody new coming in, like I wouldn't really care that this was a small batch thing, because that's you're not telling me it's not no, I just want my disco ball hat Because Beyonce has one and I need it Exactly.

Heather Travis: 1:03:04

So like you really. That's where, again, it's back to the what does that represent? And so if you do go viral and everybody wants your stuff, are you going to have to put your foot down and say sorry, we only make 10 of these a year. It's a Birkenbag.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:03:15

I was just going to say there's only 10 of them a year. That's it. You get on the writing list and it's 10 years long, and then 10 years you'll get your bag.

Heather Travis: 1:03:22

And look at the Birken. It's like the people have wanted Birkenbags. The Birkenbag was fricking invented and we all still not Kelly, all but like yeah and that and so like.

Heather Travis: 1:03:35

this has been 40 years now 50 years, 60 years that the Birkenbag has been a statement fashion piece. It's a crap. It's a debate. What you want about alligators and sustainability, I we're not here to talk about that. We're talk about the making of an item by crafts people that people desire over and over, year after year. If everybody who ever wanted a Birkenbag could have got one in year one, we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

Heather Travis: 1:04:01

And they wouldn't be $8,000 or whatever they cost now I don't even know what they cost today Exactly.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:04:09

I think there's a difference between a Birkenbag and a disco bag.

Heather Travis: 1:04:11

Totally.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:04:11

Cowboy hat one is Birkenbag will last you. It's classic, it's timeless. It'll last you forever. You're cowboy hat. So you're telling me a cowboy hat every year is not timeless, heather, if that is your style and what you're known for, it is timeless for you, true, but for a lot of us not so. I have a friend who makes disco ball stormtrooper helmets.

Heather Travis: 1:04:34

Amazing. Yeah, they're pretty cool. I actually need to get the address of this for one of my nephews for Christmas next year.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:04:42

I will send you his details. Yeah, please do. He's a toy photographer. He does really cool stuff, oh my God. But yeah, he makes these blinged out star stormtrooper helmets. So, Matt, I'm giving you a plug. I guarantee you he's never listened to this podcast.

Heather Travis: 1:04:56

Oh my God, Like my nephew is going to be turning 16 next year and this would be like such a cool.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:05:00

Yeah, it would be great if he does cons or anything like that. Yeah for sure. Yeah, we digress Anyway. So, anyway, again, his or small batch. He doesn't take some en masse for anyone. So I think we covered all of the things you want to be aware of making yourself shoppable, having your website ready, having systems in place. I think this is where systems are so important. Yeah, Because when you do have systems in place, whether you go viral or not, systems let you handle unexpected things.

Heather Travis: 1:05:35

Yes.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:05:36

It could be going viral. It could also be getting ill or having a family emergency or wanting to go on vacation. If you've got systems in place, it's just so much easier because you know what needs to happen, you know when it needs to happen, you know who's going to make it happen and things just chug along at a better pace, yes. And when the volume goes up maybe things slow down a bit. But the system is there to kind of keep in place.

Heather Travis: 1:06:02

So systems are a plan. And if you, what's the expression?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:06:04

If you plan to fail, you'll fail to plan no you fail to plan, you plan to fail or yeah, you want to.

Heather Travis: 1:06:13

Yes, yes, I know what you're saying If you fail to plan, you will plan, you plan to fail. That's what it is, regardless.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:06:20

I used to work in IT for the last 10 years of my corporate career and there was never just a plan A and a plan B, there was always a plan.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:06:26

C, d, E and F Correct. The backup of the backup of the backup, correct. So tech people are very good at having plans and systems in place. So, yes, it serves you well. But, as I mentioned, I wanted to wrap up on nurturing. Yeah, because I think this is so important.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:06:52

Again, whether you go viral or not, and I think, particularly in the social media environment that we're in today, where it is very hard to attract new people, we put a lot of energy into attracting, and there's all kinds of statistics out there particularly if you've spent time in corporate marketing where the cost of getting a new customer is far more expensive than nurturing and maintaining your existing customers, and this is so important. When somebody is in your ecosystem, the hard part, the expensive part, has been done. It's not to say that it's not hard work to keep them there, but you've already convinced them that they like you. Yeah, now you have to convince them to stick around, and so this is where it really is important to remember that you need to nurture these people who have been with you from the beginning, those people who order from you again and again and again.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:07:58

Those are your bread and butter, they're your VIPs, they are your everything or they should be your everything and new people who come into your ecosystem again. They should be nurtured as well. This is why you have email automation set up to welcome them in and tell them who you are. Getting them to your email might take a little bit of work, but that's why you pop up and tell them hey, I'm Heather, this is what I do on a regular basis, and it doesn't have to be hard to nurture people. It's work, for sure, but there's so many inexpensive, creative ways that you can make the people who follow you feel special.

Heather Travis: 1:08:49

Yes.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:08:50

I think that's so important.

Heather Travis: 1:08:51

Yes, and in fact I would say that the hardest part is simply showing up. So just being there consistently, that's the hardest part, and as long as you're aligned with what it is that you're there to do. On brand, like, quite a number of times when I go to remind myself to show up, I go to record something and I notice it. On the days that I have to remind myself to show up, I record something and I go that's not Heather, why am I doing that? And then it's because I'm forcing myself to show up and then I have to check why I wanted to post that or why I wanted to do that.

Heather Travis: 1:09:26

Yeah, end up re-recorded, something that's way more authentic on brand, on message, and worth showing up for. And I think that's the key. It's like remembering if I'm bothering to post this and people are going to bother to watch it, I have to be not like you can't share stupid shit, but like you have to if you're bothering to show up. Show up for the things that are important to your business and growing your business and your brand and all of that. And sometimes that could be sharing you're having a bad day, but it could be. You know, showing up is the hard part. That's the hard part, I think yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:10:02

And I think in that vein, you don't need to show up every day. No, we don't need to hear from you every day. No, yeah.

Heather Travis: 1:10:12

Showing up looks different for all of us. Yeah, showing up looks different for all of us.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:10:16

It does, and people are bombarded with content in today's environment. So if you miss a day, it's okay, people won't notice. No, but yeah, so show up when you have something to say. Correct, I think sometimes when you show up when you have something to say, that's when people listen the most. Yeah, because it's like you know, oh, she showed up today. This must be important kind of thing. So, yeah, that whole nurturing piece is I know we all want more followers, we all want more eyeballs, we need that to grow. I get it. I'm in the early stages of a new business, so I totally understand that getting eyeballs is really, really hard. But at the same time, it shouldn't be at the expense of the people who've already signed up.

Heather Travis: 1:11:07

No, in fact, if you think about it, like, how many of the people that follow you or me on Instagram have actually made purchases from you or I and so? But they're there for the ride and they just haven't. And I think of it, they just haven't made a purchase yet and if I stop nurturing them, they won't. Somebody knew they never will and I have to start that journey all over again. It's like when you have to, you know you go around the jail and monopoly and you have to go all the way back to go. They're starting all the way at the beginning again. So somebody who might have been following you or I for three, four, five years and hasn't purchased yet because they're saving up money, they haven't found the perfect piece, whatever. If I stop focusing on that person, like you just never know. Yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:11:58

I'm in a Facebook group for a product masterclass that I took, and this happens every few months. There's somebody who will pop in and just say I had a purchase today from somebody who has opened my last 17 emails and clicked right Because you can see all this when you're very often Shopify or, depending on your email platform, will tell you this person opened your last 17 emails, this person clicked on your last, on links in your last 17 emails, and she's and it happens all the time this person clicked 11 times before they made a purchase. This person clicked 17 times before they made a purchase and it's like if you'd given up on them after three, they would never have ordered.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:12:44

And very often it's just we've all had those moments where you're just scrolling late at night and you click and you're like, no, I don't need it. But you go back to it because it speaks to you and I don't have the money this month or it's going to have to wait till after I pay my rent, or whatever. And you go back and forth, back and forth, and eventually your circumstances improve, or you just you're like you know what Today's the day.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:13:10

Yeah, there's just that moment right, and so that nurture is really important. And, yeah, they're far more likely to buy from you than somebody who's never seen your work.

Heather Travis: 1:13:24

And they're far more likely to promote you in a much more authentic way. Somebody you know some of my biggest supporters on Instagram are people who've never purchased anything from me. The support that they give me is an intangible support. It is all their love and energy which I feel through all the hearts and emojis and everything that you know, but it's also they. Every time I post something, they're sharing it, dragging me telling people that is hugely important and that doesn't happen.

Heather Travis: 1:13:57

The people who do that don't happen because they just landed on your page. They happen because you nurture that out of them. Yeah, that's so important, definitely.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:14:08

Definitely so. Yes, everyone, I hope that this gave you all some things to think about in terms of going viral. Is it something that you still want? Is it something that is going to change your business? Maybe, maybe not. Are you prepared if it does change your business? So lots of things to think about here. And I think, at the end of the day, heather, I've never gone viral. I've certainly had some posts in a previous business that did well, but I've never had anything go viral. So, at the end of the day, heather, like, are you glad that it went viral? Do you think it was a good thing? How do you feel.

Heather Travis: 1:14:51

So you know what's really interesting, and this is my business brain. I think that it was the perfect lesson to understand that going viral isn't all it's cracked up to be Like. When you I think this was so serendipitous that you and I talked about it it happened to both Brian and I in very close proximity and the results were not what I would have suspected. And the anxiety I think I said it earlier but the anxiety over going viral now is numbed because I realize it's probably not. Yeah, like it's not as bad as I thought it would be. And it didn't have the results. Like I made no sales. I have no. You know, there's nothing really tangible to share for it. And same with Brian, except we have a whole podcast episode that we put for me.

Heather Travis: 1:15:44

To me, that was the most interesting thing. Was that from an educational like? To me, I felt like this was a marketing lesson that we got to learn in real time. That was what did going viral mean? To me, it meant actually understanding my craft and the business that I'm in better. That's what it meant. It didn't mean anything other than that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:16:07

Yeah, I mean it sounds like it's a good lesson that it's not the thing to pin your hopes to. It's kind of like winning the lottery, like it would be amazing if you won the lottery, but is that really going to happen?

Heather Travis: 1:16:18

Yes and same thing. Actually, you really do need to plan for it, right Like you need to plan for the taxes that you're going to pay if you win the lottery.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:16:28

You need to plan, like, if you're planning and divorcing your husband For the trolls that come out of the woodwork and you want the money Exactly. You're family.

Heather Travis: 1:16:35

Who are you going to set boundaries over whether Uncle Joey gets the money or not? You have to settle all of those things. Both you need to plan. And it's back to that prom analogy. It's like the what ifs. Just plan for those what ifs. Like what if my business goes big?

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:16:48

What if anything? Winning the lottery is easier than going viral, because when you win the lottery, you have 12 months before you have to claim the ticket, so you can do the planning anonymously knowing that you have that money coming when you go viral. You don't have that opportunity. You go viral and you're very visible, immediately Correct. So in some ways winning the lottery would be better.

Heather Travis: 1:17:09

I'd rather take money to be honest. Oh my God. Yes, because then, in terms of going viral, viral means gives you the freedom to try new things, like John Grisham, for instance. Well, if I won the lottery, I too would have freedom to try new things. So Exactly I'd take that too.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:17:26

So it's a lot to think about. But I hope we gave you, I hope we demystified it a little bit for you all, and I hope we gave you some things to think about. And I hope that this has made all of us realize that going viral is not how we should plan for the success of our business to happen. And I think also that going viral doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of hard work still to come. That's just the start of more hard work and different problems. You're still going to have problems. There are just going to be different problems and different challenges. So, yeah, I think that's probably it for this week then. Oh, yes, it's good to have you back on the show. It feels like it's been a while. I know I meant to go back and look and see when the last time we chatted with but yeah, everyone. So if you have gone viral, we'd love to hear from you.

Heather Travis: 1:18:25

Oh yes.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:18:27

Leave a note on our Instagram account and or send us an email. We'd love to hear your stories and if it was a good experience for you, a bad experience for you or something in between. So, all right, everyone. That is it for this week. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll be back in another two weeks with another brand new episode, and we'll talk to you all then, goodaloo. Thank you so much for joining us for the Anshi LookDepth Creative Hour.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:19:02

If you're looking for links or resources mentioned in this episode, you can find detailed show notes on our website at anshilookdepthcom. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter for more business tips, profiles of inspiring community and creative women and so much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the show via your podcast app of choice so you never miss an episode. We always love to hear from you, so we'd love it if you'd leave us a review through iTunes or Apple podcasts. Drop us a note via our website at anshilookdepthcom or come say hi on Instagram at anshilookdepth. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.