EP149: Leaning into Change for a Life of Creative Fulfillment with Geneviève Retzlaff

Transformational Coach Geneviève Retzlaff joins the show this week as part of our short January series on staying optimistic and energized in a month that can be dull, cold and dreary. 

In this episode, Gen is here to help us lean into change in order to have fulfilling creative careers and lives. Whether you're thinking of leaving a traditional career to start a creative business or, you want to ramp up a side business or, you've already got a creative business but it's just not lighting your fire anymore, Gen helps us through the roadblocks we tend to put in place for ourselves!

This is a great episode for creatives who...

• are feeling change is in the works but are feeling fear and resistance
• need strategies and tools to help them embrace change
• struggle with self-awareness (which is needed to embrace change)
• need help instigating change even though they may not be in a position to make the leap right now
• are the bottleneck that stands in their way
• would like to learn how strategic planning, goal setting and hiring help can all help you set change in motion 

This episode is brought to you by Fine Lime Designs Illustrations

For a summary of this episode and all the links mentioned please visit:
Episode149: Leaning into Change for Creative Fulfillment with Geneviève Retzlaff

You can find Geneviève at genevieveretzlaff.com and grow-better-together.com. You can also connect with her on Instagram at @genretzlaff_career_coaching, or @grow_better_together, on  Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube

You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns

Transcript

Melissa Hartfiel: 0:00

This week's episode of the And She Looked Up podcast is brought to you by Fine Lime Illustrations. If you love quirky, colorful art transformed into fun handmade stationery items pretty much guaranteed to brighten somebody's day that's just what you'll find in my new online shop at finelimeillustrations dot com. That's fine, as in I'm fine lime, as in the fruit i lustration. com. Browse the entire collection or sign up for my email list to see some behind the scenes peeks into my studio. You'll also get first notice of new product launches and subscriber only sales, and as an added little bonus, you'll also receive a free coloring sheet to help you relax and de-stress from your day. Now on with the show.

Melissa Hartfiel: 0:58

Welcome to the And Looked ooked Looked Up podcast. Each week, we sit down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. I'm your host Melissa Hartfiel Hartfield, and after leaving a 20 year career in corporate retail, I've been happily self-employed for 12 years. I'm a graphic designer, an illustrator and a multi-six figure a year entrepreneur in the digital content space.

Melissa Hartfiel: 1:29

This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the And Sheh Looked gie gie gie Looked Up podcast. As Melissa, I'm your host, melissa, and in today's episode I want to continue on with our January theme of helping you retain those feelings of optimism and a clean start, inspiration and that confidence to create change where you need to. We always seem to start the year off with but that sort of dissipates as the year rolls on by, and here to help me with that Genevieve today is my guest, genevieve Retzlaff. Welcome to the show, gene.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 2:18

Hi, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Melissa Hartfiel: 2:20

I am really looking forward to our conversation today because we're essentially going to be focusing on change today. So maybe you are a listener who's in a traditional type of job and you're wishing you could escape from the following your creative passion as a full-time gig, but you're not quite sure if you're ready. Or perhaps you already have a creative hobby that you pursue as a side gig and you'd like to go full-time, but again, you're just not sure if you're there yet. Or probably the most common one for a lot of you is you already have a full-time creative business and maybe it's doing really well. Or maybe you're struggling a little bit and you've got that itchy feeling deep down inside that it might be time for a change, and that's what Gene is here to help us with today. So, on that note, let's get to know her a little bit better before we dive into the conversation.

Melissa Hartfiel: 3:22

Genevieve is a certified transformational coach who guides individuals through a journey of self-discovery. She helps her clients uncover a career path that resonates with their authentic selves and fosters fulfillment, both personally and professionally, which is basically the core principles of this podcast. So I feel like we have the right person here with us today. Oh, fuck off. So before we dive right in Gene, the first question I ask everyone who comes on the show is did you feel like you were creative as a kid?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 3:57

Well, I did not feel it as I was a kid, but looking back I could definitely see that I was. And I say was because it feels like adulthood made me change somehow, like it's hard for a non-creative family, I guess, to see non-creative as being serious, somehow Like at least that's my experience and I think that's why I lost touch with it. Yeah, I was on. My mom said I was always, always drawing, like all the time, even if I look at my notebooks from high school like there's scribbles all over the place.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 4:36

And I also had, I think I have a musical ear, like it's really easy for me to remember songs. And I had a neighbor who had a piano and I was so interested and I wanted to learn and she was teaching me and I was always there, like so I really have a thing for piano and violin and makes me so, like it touches my heart, like really, like I feel the music. So in that sense I do feel like I'm. Yeah, I have this creative side of me but was not nurtured, I would say, unfortunately.

Melissa Hartfiel: 5:10

I think we're all creative. Well, I firmly believe we are all creative inside.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 5:14

I think so too.

Melissa Hartfiel: 5:15

Manifest itself as we get older and stuff is different for everyone. Sometimes I think we do lose a bit of it as we grow older. We just kind of forget.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 5:24

Yeah, so sad, right it, is it really?

Melissa Hartfiel: 5:26

is so. It always makes me happy when I see people who have kind of rediscovered that part of themselves and are totally give it some time. So tell us a little bit about your business and what you do, because you do a couple of different things.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 5:41

That's right. I actually have kind of two businesses on two fronts because I am passionate about too many things. But there's one fold I work with organizations to bring more authenticity and more connection into the work culture and help management and employees to connect on a human level, which in turn will have a ripple effect on the turnover rates and reduce the turnover rate and make people stay and engaged, and in a place where resources are scarce like it's the side of a business, that is something that I find very useful for organizations right now. And the other fold is the career coaching bit. That's how I started my coaching career as a career coach, and so that's where I did my certification as a transformational coach.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 6:35

So then I really helped people get real or get clear about what does it mean to be authentic for them? Because what it means for me doesn't mean the same for you, right? And so what does it mean for us? And, as I said, like the same way I was creative as a child and I lost it that's like mental construct and experiences and environment and family and schools and society in general makes us shift somehow, because you want to fit where in the expectations of everyone around you and you forget about your own. And so that's the. And when I say self discovery, you hear yourself right, yeah, that was very heavy.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 7:21

Yeah, so that's what I helped find with to understand go back into that self discovery process and deconstruct the mental constructs that are no longer serving you. Because when people come to me, they feel icky, right, they feel, ah, something's got to change, I don't feel good, I don't feel right, but I just don't know what's next. And so we uncover that, yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 7:44

What was it that led you to doing this kind of work?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 7:47

I was always drawn to it. You know I started my career in corporate well, as an HR, with Cirque du Soleil. That's where my oh, very good, my creative side was fulfilled. Like I'm not a creative myself, but at least you know I was surrounded by them, so that was good. So, yeah, I started my career as an HR for 15 plus years before I switched on to coaching, but the part that I liked the most was really the partnering with leaders to make them see what they couldn't see. You know about people's behavior, what could be under that. And then I just figured I had an eye that a lot of people didn't have, and so I thought maybe that's something I could explore and that those meetings with leaders to, you know, talk about people, conflicts and like this was my space. I felt really good in there and strong, and so I wanted to be.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 8:43

You know you always call yourself a coach. There's so many people who said I'm a coach. But what does that really mean For me? It meant that I could start from the premise that the client is resourceful enough to find their own solution, and so that is a specific kind of coaching and that's what I call the transformational coaching understanding what the client is strong in what their values, their beliefs, what is blocking them. So just be able to explore all of it. So that went really deeper. From the leadership coaching I thought I was doing versus the actual transformational coaching is like I don't know. Five deeper levels, you know? Yeah, okay.

Melissa Hartfiel: 9:28

Very cool. So, as I kind of alluded to in the intro, we have three basic kinds of listeners to this show. We've got the people who are you know, they're in a traditional job already but it's not really where they want to be. But they're not. You know, the idea of leaving is very scary. And then we have those who are maybe doing it part-time, but again the idea of going full-time or having to cross that line from hobby to job is scary. And then we have that group who are already there.

Melissa Hartfiel: 10:01

But, maybe they've been doing it for a long time and it's just you know. So let's focus on the first two groups first, because you kind of alluded to it when you were saying that you get that icky feeling Like you know something's off and we felt it. It's just like, yeah, so maybe if we could talk a little bit more about that, like how do we know when it's the right time to start exploring a change? What are some of the signs that we might?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 10:29

That's a good question, I guess. If you hear yourself think, or even talk about all the negative aspects of what you do, I guess that's a good sign that you're probably not feeling fulfilled. If you go around in circles, you're like, okay, what else can I do? And then you go around in circles in your mind and that involves a lot of either negative talk to yourself, like inner talk, or coming up with a problem to what you're trying to create. For example, if you have I don't know, you are a creative that does visual arts and you want to go into digital art. I don't know. That's not a good example.

Melissa Hartfiel: 11:18

Writing poetry. You say you want to go, yeah something different, Right, yeah, Thank you.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 11:26

But you're like, yeah, but I could do that, but then I'm not going to make enough money. And then you know who's going to buy this and I'm, who, am I to do that? And whatever, like you. Just you have that idea and then all like right away you come up with a problem that that's probably you know, you can explore. Maybe those problems are real, but maybe there is something that you're telling yourself that is not serving you and maybe it's just, it's just a belief that once you get rid of it, you can accomplish that goal. No problem, you know. And so, yeah, does that answer your question?

Melissa Hartfiel: 12:01

Yeah, I think so, because that kind of led into what I was going to ask. Next, is that we there's all those voices in our head that oh yeah.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 12:09

Yeah, these damn forces.

Melissa Hartfiel: 12:13

You know, like gosh, I have a real job now. I can't leave this to go do whatever I want, or? Yeah, artists are always starving. I'll never make enough money, and it's just. How can I turn being a painter into a business, all those things? So how do we, how do we deal with those voices when they're talking to us?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 12:34

Because they're very loud. I know, I know, and you know you say that, and I was hearing a podcast where bono from I think you're from YouTube, said that even up to when his YouTube made so much money and was super successful, his dad was still asking him when he's going to get a real job. You know, like it's just so ingrained, like that that's not a real job, but you know, and so it's hard to deconstruct these kind of thoughts when that's all you hear, right, and so I guess you know what I would suggest and that's the work I do is, before you get there, just stay in the space of the goal. Let's say this, this example right, you want to be writing poetry. Stay in that mind space, I write poetry.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 13:25

And then, if you practice mindfulness, like if you meditate or whatever, set an intention, like I want to get clear on where this could take me, for example, and then visualize yourself in the world, in the world of a poetry writer, and just embody that and just see how it feels and stay in that space for as long as you can, and then look at the blocks. Oh, don't look at the blocks while you think about your dream. You know, don't let that be, let that sit for longer than a minute. Do you know what I mean? And sometimes I spend three sessions with clients just talking about goals, and that, you know, motivates and that gives them energy towards it. It's like, oh, my God, it is possible. And then, oh, okay, so what's getting in your way? And then we talk about the blocks. But first of all, you stay in that space for a while and then you, you know, you get empowered by the thought and vision and whatever you let yourself be so.

Melissa Hartfiel: 14:24

it's almost like you set the goals before you address the problems that would come with the goals. That's, that's later. We'll problem solve it later, so okay, so that's that's a really great first.

Melissa Hartfiel: 14:37

that is a very constructive first step that you can take Sit with it, and then actually create the goals that you would need to put in place in order to actually become somebody who writes poetry. So maybe that means that you are going to sit down at your desk every day for 10 minutes and write something like that could be a very first step, like let's actually write something.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 15:01

Yeah, and start with something small that's what I mean. Like it's easy to take 10 minutes and think right, like you don't need to to quit your job or whatever. Just this minute, just take a first step towards at least just feeling how that would feel and that that's manageable enough.

Melissa Hartfiel: 15:19

Yeah, absolutely so, if you've always worked for somebody else and so you've always always had somebody who's taking care of your paycheck and who has dealt with taxes and hired the people around you that work around you and done all that for you.

Melissa Hartfiel: 15:35

It's one thing to say I want to write poetry and I want to earn my living from it. It's a very different thing to also because at the same time, you're saying I want to start a business, I want to write poetry and I want to start business, and I want them to be the same thing, so not everyone's cut out to be an entrepreneur. I think like, how do you go about evaluating whether or not running your own business might be a good fit for you?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 16:02

Yeah, the way I do it, that is part of the work I do. That is more on the pragmatic side Because there's a lot of reflection and a lot of feelings and a lot of inner work. But that part is, for me, the pragmatic part, which is I run a strength assessment. I use the Gallup Strength Finder. You can find any, really, and you just need to be clear about your strengths. And once you're clear about your strengths, it will tell you whether you have the strengths to be an entrepreneur or whether that would suck too much energy. And the way I mean that is if your strength. So the Gallup Strength Finder that I use, for example, it has one to 34 strengths, right, so in order, and then, if I don't know your organizational skills, is number 30, it probably says that it's going to be hard for you unless you have enough financials or you know enough planning or savings to be able to outsource that part, like the accounting or whatever that you're not strong in. That requires organizational skills. If you know, that's not a strength, Because the Strength Finder, what it will tell you is if you're in your top 10 all day long, you don't feel like you're working, you're using your strength, it gives you energy, you're pumped, you wake up, you're like, yeah, you know, and but if you always use your weaknesses in your job, then that's going to be very hard, like you're not going to thrive and you're going to wonder what are you doing really?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 17:40

And then you're going to go back to this unfulfilled feeling. Unfulfillment, yeah, yeah. So I would say understand your strengths and don't work on your weaknesses. Don't say I have to work, I need to be good in accounting. I don't think that's going to be sustainable. You know it can work for a couple of years, but at some point you're going to question it again, you know.

Melissa Hartfiel: 18:02

Yes, that was my first hire when I started.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 18:05

I bet I was hiring an accountant.

Melissa Hartfiel: 18:08

I knew I was going to have to do it for the first year or two, but that was always. My goal was to make enough money to hire somebody to do my books, and then I'd worry about it later, so yeah, it is possible.

Melissa Hartfiel: 18:19

You just have to be very realistic, I guess, about what you're good at, what you're not good at. And you always hear this. You hear people talk about their superpower and how. Very often, when you are in that zone with your superpower, it doesn't feel like work. It feels almost like you're goofing off. You know, yeah, yeah, it's possible, it is possible. And we get all these feelings of guilt around like that, like, oh, I'm goofing off. This is silly. I you know like I could do this in my sleep. I should be working harder on, and yet working harder often includes those things we're not good at. So yeah, that's right.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 18:56

Do you know what Like that reminds me of just somebody I just started to work with.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 19:02

She's a medical doctor and she is also an entrepreneur that has her own practice, and she's an ex Olympian. And the reason why I do this because I want to have the parallel to what you just said right now is she is so focused on performance and the way she was brought up and the way that whatever took her to success being an Olympian is part of a big success milestone, right, and so what took her there meant that it could not equal fun. It's like it's a dissociation that is absolutely necessary. If you need to be serious about your success, you can't have fun, because then it means you're kind of slacking off. And so now we're working deconstructing this to be able to, first of all, infuse more fun in her own life, but also in her practice, for her employees and for, you know, for everyone on her team, because if she this is her belief, like probably the culture that she created says that you can't have fun, and she wants to change that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 20:10

So, anyway, so even for her patients, I would think you would have to be. You know, I'm just my mom's a retired physician, so you know there has to be the empathy and all of that that comes with it. Sometimes I think we could probably lose if we're super focused on performance, right? So that's really interesting, yeah, so this person is having to just basically relearn how to infuse fun into her life and in her to her practice.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 20:40

But so the parallel I would say is that it is it is possible to have fun and use your strength. Are they long Feel like you're working? And also yeah, that's the second piece I guess that blocks that a lot of entrepreneur have is like charging enough for your services and believing that you're worth it. That's a second layer.

Melissa Hartfiel: 21:02

Yeah, we talked about that a lot on this show.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 21:05

Oh yeah, there we go.

Melissa Hartfiel: 21:08

Pricing is. Anytime we do a pricing episode it does well, okay so when we're getting ready to tackle a big career shift. So whether we're, we're leaving traditional employment or we're taking that side gig and turning it into our full time gig and you kind of alluded to this in your last answer but how important is it that what we're moving to and our mindset and everything around it fits with our own values and feels purposeful, as opposed to doing something just because it's going to make us money and it will pay our bills and support us. So how like? I mean, I guess it's possible to just go out there and do something that you know will pay you well, but how long can you sustain that if it doesn't fit with who you are, who your authentic self is?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 21:59

I think it's always going to catch up with you, like. You're always going to have these thoughts of like why am I doing that? But some people are more endurance than than me. For example, I left the corporate world because like that was just, it was paying off. It was a good job, right like it was.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 22:19

But at some point, I guess I guess the point would be to really look at what are your goals and what is important. So somebody who is in a situation where they have to earn that money and don't feel like they have the luxury to make the choice, it's a different story. But I would still say, if you feel unfulfilled and you have to stay in that job for now, you can plan a career transition, the same way you would plan a vacation. You can set money aside and say, well, when I'm going to transition into that and make a plan. It could take you five years instead of five months, but at least you can work towards that goal eventually. I think if you don't live, I truly believe that If you don't live according to your life purpose, it's always going to come back to you no, you're not doing the right thing, and then blocks will come in your way. Somehow, you know like life will tell you you're not in the right place.

Melissa Hartfiel: 23:23

Yeah, I agree with that and that's what I did before I left my job. I was planning my exit strategy about three years before I actually left and doing exactly what you said. I was putting money aside, I made some big purchases that I might not be able to make afterwards and I did a little bit of. I went back to school and I just yeah, and I was miserable in my job, but being able to-.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 23:47

In case you have a goal right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 23:49

Yeah, so I was able to go home at the end of the night and work towards something that I was more excited about and that really and that's what kept me going if I hadn't had that to look forward to, I really don't know what I would have done, to be quite honest.

Melissa Hartfiel: 24:04

So, and it was really funny, and I'm just going to put this out there for everyone listening, because the first thing I did before I quit my job, when I was thinking about it, is I told my parents, I told my dad first. My parents are separated, but I told my dad first and he was like good, like that was his first words for good, and he's like you should tell your mother first. Though. And I called my mom, she was like she said oh good, and I was like really, and she said yes, I'm so glad you're doing this. And then I mentioned it to my brother and he's like oh, for fuck's sake, you know like it's about time. And I was like what do you mean it's about time? He's like you've been miserable for years and everyone can see it. And I didn't even realize, I thought I was hiding it and I wasn't like right, it was just like everybody close to me was like it's about time You're ready for this.

Melissa Hartfiel: 24:58

All the signs have been there and you just but you needed to get there on your own, I guess.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 25:02

So I think what would you have said if they had told you like three years ago, like why don't you quit your job?

Melissa Hartfiel: 25:09

They had always kind of hinted at it, I guess, and they knew I was on that path and that was where I was going. But I think I just needed to get there myself, and it was a bit of a big life thing that happened. That kind of made me realize like I'm not going to, like this isn't going to get better and life's too short and now's the time. But I think the one thing I just want to say to everyone listening is that even if you think I don't think we realize how much of our unhappiness we can put out into the world without even realizing it, like it was very obvious to everyone around me that I was unhappy. I thought I was hiding it, and so if you're feeling that way, there's a good chance that everyone around you can see it and they're either trying to help you and you're not listening or they don't know how to help you, but you're going to be putting off that energy to the world.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 26:13

It's contagious, just as the happiness is also contagious. You have a ripple effect and that's why I find the work I do so rewarding, and I like to believe that if I transform the life of one person, it has a ripple effect on their lives and then it kind of ripples on a bigger level, just even things like your marriage or your partner or spouse or whatever.

Melissa Hartfiel: 26:40

It's very hard to live with somebody who's always unhappy.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 26:44

Oh my God, it's so heavy.

Melissa Hartfiel: 26:46

Yes, especially if it's themselves they're unhappy with, not necessarily you or the family, but the unhappiness is inside. So, yeah, if you can change that for somebody, you're changing the lives of everyone around them.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 27:02

But just come back to the. Change is hard, and to understand your own blocks is really the key. But if you only live in the blocks, though, that's going to be hard. You need to live in the vision first, I think.

Melissa Hartfiel: 27:17

Yeah, so how do you go about having that conversation with yourself? Because I think sometimes we don't have those conversations with ourselves. We just put things away, because I got to go to work today and do the thing that I don't enjoy. So how do you sit down and I'm not going? To articulate what I want to say very much. No, I know what you mean.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 27:44

You know what I mean. I truly so. My biggest belief is that we get sometimes, we want to be distracted from the thoughts that we don't want to have, and that's harder than just, and that that's going to drag longer than if you just sit with that discomfort. I don't feel good. Let me figure out why. So if you can't afford to hire somebody to help you with that, then just sit with those feelings and I don't know. You can journal whatever works for you. Right, I practice mindfulness because that works for me. Some people they go for a run or they do yoga or whatever works for you, to put you in a space where you can reflect. Reflect, like on a deeper level, about what is it. And if you let yourself be in that space, I swear things will come up, but it's the distraction that will always, always come and it's just like postponing the thing and it's just making it bigger.

Melissa Hartfiel: 28:53

You know procrastination from dealing with what's making you feel bad, yeah, which ultimately is not healthy.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 29:01

Yeah, yeah. And imagine on all the years that you're wasting living your life purpose. You know you're sacrificing, being happy and fulfilled because you don't want to sit down in your discomfort. I mean, yeah, maybe gaining a new perspective like that could help.

Melissa Hartfiel: 29:18

Or yeah, yeah. So sitting down and just forcing yourself to have that moment with yourself, whether it's a conversation or just yeah, so I think that's very hard for a lot of people to do, yeah.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 29:33

And sometimes some people don't know how to have that conversation. And if you have a very a person you trust, you can use that person as a thinking partner. They can just say I don't need a solution right now, I just, I just need to ramble my thoughts because I need to get them out somehow. Or do you know what I mean? Because I know, if I tell my husband I have thoughts and he will find your solution, I don't want a solution, I just. You know, I just want to be in my head for a minute, but not alone in my head.

Melissa Hartfiel: 30:08

I think that's very natural when you're a partner. You want to fix partners problems, you want to make them feel better and sometimes you just have to let them have their moment, Feel. Yeah, exactly, I've noticed this. I'm in a mastermind group with four other female small business owners and I always find our best solutions. And meetings always come out of where somebody has just needed to blah. You know, just talk something out. You know they're not necessarily looking for a solution, but they just need to get it out, and usually what invariably happens is about two thirds, three quarters of the way through the meeting they all of a sudden are like the solution just presents itself in their head because they got that opportunity to just talk it out and we just all sit there and go yeah, you know, but you need to do it in front of other people.

Melissa Hartfiel: 31:02

So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the other group, so the group of women out there who already run their own businesses and they're doing well. Maybe they're struggling or maybe maybe they're doing very well but they're no-transcript. Let's say for this instance that they have a successful business, it's profitable, it's successful, and now they're struggling with growth and they know that the reason they're struggling is because they are the bottleneck, and I think this happens far more than any business owner wants to admit.

Melissa Hartfiel: 31:40

But you've and sometimes it's hard to admit you're the bottleneck in your business. You realize it's time that the only way you're going to move forward is to remove yourself from the bottleneck, and usually that means hiring some help. And I think this is where a lot of small business owners very small business owners who've always just been a sole proprietorship or maybe had a VA who helps with a few tasks get really stuck. They have no experience managing people, training people, any of that, and this is actually something I've wanted to do a full episode on for a long time. But how? What are the first steps towards bringing help into your business so that you can get things moving and growing again?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 32:30

Yeah, I'm going to repeat what a friend of mine said on a podcast recently. She said and this is that resonated with me so much. And what? When you just said? She said my business can grow only as much as my mental capacity can hold. So I'll repeat that just to let that sink my business can only grow as much as my mental capacity can hold.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 32:59

And, to your point, if you don't work on growing personally, your business cannot grow. And so if you're the bottleneck, it means that maybe you think, oh, this is too much trouble, or I don't have the skills to run a team, oh, I don't have. Like you're again like coming up with the problem before you even thought about a solution. So that is something to definitely consider. Like giving, like expanding yourself and your mind to the possibilities and I'm saying that like I know what I'm talking about, but I struggle with that myself. Like it's you know it's a place where I'm still you know it's uncomfortable, right. Like growing, having a big team, and I get daunting, I get it, I really get it. But if you're able to kind of break that, those barriers that is keeping you stuck, then you can do so much more than you think, right. So there's that, but also going about to building a team. Is that what your question is about?

Melissa Hartfiel: 34:13

So I think even saying team might be scary for some people who listen to this show to hear.

Melissa Hartfiel: 34:18

People. Yes, like just the thought of hiring one person is frightening, because I think you're dealing with all those emotions like this is my baby, I'm the only one who can do this Start, control and hard to let go All that stuff and just letting y'all know out there there are definitely people who can do parts of your business better than you can. It just is. But yeah, so I guess maybe like team, maybe isn't the right word but even the steps to making that very first hire, because I do think one thing that happens is once people hire the right person for the first time, they realize it gets very. It's a lot easier to hire the second person and the third person.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 35:01

If the first one is a success and that's where you need to put a lot of attention, because if it fails, you're going to think that that's what it is and then you can't have a team. Then I tried it Then, but maybe you're hiring process wasn't done properly, you know. So getting the right people on the bus, I guess so that goes back to my HR world, I guess is really understand, like, what you want to build as a culture, even if it's just for one person. Like you need to know the type of people you want to get on your bus, and by that it's not only the skills, but it's also how are you going to compliment each other, knowing that it's your baby and it's going to be hard to share, have somebody who's going to be fine with that, you know and have some really hard, non-negotiable points. Like this is something I need. And sometimes I find like when you're in an interview and you like the person, like you connect, you're like, oh yeah, that would do, and then you start crossing off like criteria that you set for yourself, you know, just because you have a personal connection. I've done that myself and that was a fail and I know a lot of other people who did the same. But, yeah, you know you let yourself carry away with the personal connection. But, yeah, just really be clear about that.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 36:19

There's different ways to to recruit that are more. I don't know they're a bit more woo, but they are. They ensure that you create the best mix of people and diversity is good. If somebody challenges you in an interview, you want them on board. You know you don't want. You know it's a different way of recruiting right now, but I don't know if I'm going in the direction of getting rid of this care.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 36:48

But what I want to say is that they are ways to recruit. Like, for example, if you look at human design, like if you get a bit curious around the getting the right personalities together on the team, it could really really be empowering. And because you can really multiply and you know, on an exponential level, your success. So if you're already successful, right, that's your example. Like women that are successful, you can just really even be more successful and you can build a lifestyle business. You can work less and make more and you know, try to see this as a positive thing and just get the right people on the bus. Yeah, I guess that's the. That's the trick. It's not just hiring for skills and ticking boxes of a job job posting, but really going beyond that first impression just to really do diligence, a lot of assessment, especially if it's your first one. It needs to be a success, like and because otherwise you're probably going to let that idea go and that that's a shame. That's true, that would be a shame.

Melissa Hartfiel: 37:58

Do you also have to have realistic expectations around what bringing an employee on is going to be like, because I think a lot of people don't realize that they are going to have to spend some time training that person, and it would be great if we could hire somebody who just appears in our business. Yeah, yeah. He learns everything through osmosis, and I'm not going to download your brain, you know Exactly.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 38:24

But that just Download, upload. No, I guess the two very tangible steps that I could say is again, go back to the strength finder, see what you're strong in, and maybe leading a team is not something you're strong in, so hire somebody who can eventually do that. If you grow further or just you know, understand your own limitation and maybe growth is going to challenge you in some of your weaknesses, then maybe that's not the right place because, again, like you want to use all your strength to be able to give you energy and not suck the life out of you. So yeah, so that's yeah, that's what I would say. Just look at your strength.

Melissa Hartfiel: 39:14

Yeah, I think one of the things in my past life I had to do hiring, so I'm fairly comfortable at it. But one of the things I was the first time I had to make a hire was just not understanding that it would take a lot of work on my part, just based on the way the company I worked for was organized instructor. But there has to be time set aside for training. There has to be time set aside for onboarding and orientation and those types of things in order to set the person up that you've hired for success.

Melissa Hartfiel: 39:49

You have to have realistic expectations of where they're going to grow into the role that you are hoping to bring them into.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 39:59

Yeah, you can see this as a one step backwards, three step forward kind of approach. You know you need to slow down to go to go faster farther.

Melissa Hartfiel: 40:10

But I think we hire your first person. It does feel like a step backwards at first, because it takes more of your time and, yeah, and if you're not expecting that, it can be disorienting.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 40:22

That's right. Yeah, have to write expectations. Oh yeah, that's the other piece I wanted to say. Talk to other people, talk to the entrepreneurs that you know around you, that have hired a team. What was it like? What are the surprises? What are the challenges? A lot of people don't talk about challenges. You know always the face of like everything's great. But, yeah, ask them about the challenges and if you don't have anyone in your network, look outside of your own network. Just, you know, meet people, go. I don't know. But this is like discuss, discuss and make sure you're really clear about what you're getting yourself into and then you know, understand your bad and your values, your beliefs and your strengths. Do they fit with me? Having a team you know or hiring somebody?

Melissa Hartfiel: 41:09

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's very important. Yes, because once you do make that first hire and it's successful, it's life changing, I know. So it's just like, wow, what else can I get rid of? Like, just bring them on, yeah, yes, and you will grow from it, like, if that's where you want to go next, that's what has to happen. So then we've got this other group of people who are they've got their established businesses, things are going great and but maybe the spark is gone and they follow a different creative path. But their business is supporting them and it's something that they did love. And maybe they do have employees and there's that fear of if I make a change, it doesn't just impact me, it impacts my whole ecosystem and people whose livelihoods depend on me, and so there can be a lot of stress around that. And I'm just wondering if you have any suggestions for people who are maybe in that situation where they're feeling those feelings that it's time to make a change.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 42:26

Right.

Melissa Hartfiel: 42:27

I don't know how to navigate it.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 42:29

If they have a successful business, it means they have a proven concept right, and so I would personally not think of dissolving it, but more like giving it in the hands of somebody who's passionate about it. While you build your, you know your other business that you're passionate about. I guess it could be kind of a transition. That's an idea I have, but obviously not everyone would resonate with that. I would say it's really well. Overcoming the guilt I guess you know that's what I would imagine people would feel like.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 43:06

If they hire people, you know you get them on board with your mission, your project, and now you're saying I don't know about that mission anymore, you could disappoint people and a lot of people have trouble living with that, and you know I get it.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 43:19

But if you can overcome the guilt and make things right for you and the team you hired, that's you know it's that's already kind of a first step. But also you can plan it the same way we said right Planning or vacation or something you know that needs to simmer and be thought through, and having a plan that makes sense, and have somebody look into that plan, not just with your own mind, but I would totally invite somebody to brainstorm on the exit plan. But personally, like I think I would probably go more for an exit plan, but not dissolving the business if it's already successful. You know it's. I don't know, unless you really don't want to be involved with V-Row anymore, which is also possible, you know you can leave it in the hands, hire a CEO, somebody who's passionate about it and was going to drive it for you.

Melissa Hartfiel: 44:28

You just mentioned the term exit plan, which I think is something most self-employed business owners do not think about when they start their businesses. I certainly know I did not. And all of a sudden there's whether it's the spark is gone, it's not feeding your soul anymore, or maybe you just want to retire, like maybe you're just I've done what I need to do and now I want to do something else. But how important is that when you're starting out to think about what the end game is?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 45:06

Yeah, yeah, you're telling me this.

Melissa Hartfiel: 45:08

I'm like, oh no, I need to think about that too None of us do, I think, and it's not until we get to the point where we're feeling and I've had this happen in a past business where this wasn't and we didn't have an exit plan we really didn't know what to do and I think ultimately we wound up selling our business. But I think that was. I think if we had planned things from the get go or had an idea of where, what the options were to leave, we would have been so much better prepared. And I think when you're not prepared, we wound, I think we found ourselves back I don't want to say backed into a corner, but sometimes it felt like that, like we didn't have very many options, because I feel like it's something.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 45:57

I've got Creating options.

Melissa Hartfiel: 45:59

Yes, and I think that's something I think about a lot more now is where do I want to be in 10 years, 15 years, and how, especially if your business is your retirement plan like, if selling your business, yeah, which I think a lot of people don't think about, because in order for that to happen, somebody has to buy your business. And what if nobody does? That's right Do you have any suggestions for people when they're when they're starting, when they're getting started, towards thinking about how you're going to finish it?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 46:35

Yeah, I guess there would be a lot of emotions involved in that decision. It's really hard to. It's like having your own business is like having a child. It's really hard to be objective and rational 100% and I feel like having an exit plan needs a rational and objective lens and I would say bring someone in. That would be my best advice. Don't do this on your own. That's where my head is going when you're asking that question. I would not do this on my own.

Melissa Hartfiel: 47:06

Yeah, actually, you just reminded me of a podcast episode I listened to several years ago. It was about two partners. They had the podcast together and they the business, and I remember them talking about how, not long after they started the business, they sat down with a lawyer and an accountant and created a partnership agreement. Basically, the lawyer went through and highlighted all these things what if one of you wants to leave and the other doesn't? Or they even kind of joked about it, like what if Oprah calls and wants you on her show, but she can only take one of you? Which one will? And they had even gone down to that level of granularity, so it was in the contract she gets to go and the other one gets to stay behind. And we don't think about those things when we're starting out that for sure I would never think about Oprah wanting to hear about my business.

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:03

And they wound up being very, very successful and eventually their partnership did dissolve and one of them carried on with the business, but it was a very. It gave me a lot to think about when I was hearing them.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 48:19

Yeah, talking about an exit plan, yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, I'm all about formalizing these kind of things, so I think that I would have hired a lawyer also. I know it's high cost, but there's such an investment that you can't regret. You can't say, oh, I wish I hadn't done that.

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:36

You can't say that Definitely, especially if you're in a partnership, even more so than if you're just even more, so yeah.

Melissa Hartfiel: 48:43

But yes, so we're coming up on the hour and so I just want to sort of like for all of those people that are sitting out there listening, who are just in those, having those moments right now where they're thinking it's time, like something is off, it's, I'm ready to make a change. What would you suggest to them as the first few things that they should be doing right now, even if they're not sure what that change is going to be? Okay, is this something easy?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 49:16

manageable and a first small baby step to you understanding what it means for you to be fulfilled. Have I tried to direct something? So I don't know if your listeners know Brandy Brown, but I would look her up. I'm sure they do, everybody does. She's awesome. If you don't like to be curious about her, she's awesome. But she has on her website, I think.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 49:41

Is it there to lead? I can't remember, but on her website you will find a list of values and then circle your top 10. And ask yourself why do you think those values are yours Like? Go deeper into the reflection, asking yourself why. And then circle the top three, because three is really hard to choose three values and then you might understand where the difference not the difference, but the sense of unfulfillment comes in. It might be because you don't live according to your values at this very minute.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 50:28

And then see what can you do to live more, to live your values more fully, and that will take you slowly to a path of reflection. And what does it mean for you to be aligned? I guess that's the whole point. When you don't feel fulfilled, you don't even align, you don't, you're not aligned with your values and your belief and your strength and you know, all of it is kind of not in a straight line. So by bringing them together, I guess that's one of the pieces of the puzzle, and to me that's the most important one, because what does it mean to live according to your values? It means to live authentically and vice versa, and so I guess that's going to give you at least enough hints to get started on the process of feeling fulfilled in 2024. And that's a good way to start January. I find that is.

Melissa Hartfiel: 51:19

It's actually a really good one. What are my values? I visit every year as well, yeah they change over time.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 51:26

Yeah, your strength won't change. Your belief can change if you put your heart into it. But your values, yeah, they can change based on the experiences you gain. They can change. You know, with time, with life, everything that happens to you will make your values change.

Melissa Hartfiel: 51:44

And, like you said at the beginning, I think we all know when things aren't in that straight line, when they're not aligned, because we do.

Melissa Hartfiel: 51:51

There's just yeah, it's just like an icky feeling or something, or it's just off, and I think we're all pretty good at knowing when something's off. Yeah, so yes, and the last thing I want to ask you before we wrap up is for those people out there who are thinking and this probably applies more to maybe other people who are thinking of leaving a traditional job or a corporate job, or to those who are already running a successful business, who are thinking they might need to Change and they want somebody to help them. You are a coach. One of the questions I always hear in a lot of small business and entrepreneur groups is like how do I find the right coach for me? So do you have any suggestions or tips for people listening who are maybe like a fit for the coach?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 52:39

Talk to at least three if you can fit in more in your schedule. Fit in more, see really where you connect. And you really need to connect with your coach. It needs to make sense and you some coaches will want to sell you their program and she'll just pay attention like are you being influenced or do you just feel a very strong connection Because it is kind of going on a bit of a vulnerable journey to work with a coach because you're going to talk about the deeper stuff but you're not going to heal the wounds?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 53:14

Okay, so you're not. It's not like therapy, as in we talk about your belief but we don't need to talk about where they come from and why. I mean we can, but it's not like a must and it's not like the goal is not to go back in your childhood and heal the wounds that happened, but talk about. Okay, now that I'm aware that these beliefs are not serving me in achieving my goal, what else can I do? How else can I practice new behavior that are going to help me change? And that's what you want in a coach. You want them to gear you towards the future and you want them to be your cheerleader but also to ask difficult questions for yourself and to be there to challenge you when they hear that your limiting beliefs are responding to the question and not your new self. You know what I mean. And so just being able to mirror back and a lot of coaches will be, I don't know.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 54:20

I'm accredited with the ICF, the International Coaching Federation, because I really believe in the credibility of that institution, because a lot of coaches call themselves a career coach but they haven't gone through a proper certification and make sure they are. If they're not ICF certified, ask them where they have done their certification and ask them for the website and check it out, like, look it up and just see if this is kind of a serious call. If they have done a weekend coaching training, you will get what you get right. You can still make progress, but you're probably not going to be transformed after the coaching. So yeah, and the real coaching practice is really starting from the premise that the client is resourceful enough I said that at the beginning but resourceful enough to find their own solution. So if you have a coach that tells you or advises you on what to do, that's not the right approach, like because it's not going to be sustainable if it's somebody else's solution solving your problem.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 55:33

So you want your own accountability also towards making that change, and the coach is supposed to bring you to be accountable for the actions that you agree to take. So, yeah, these are the pointers I would say, but yeah, you need to feel a deep connection with your. I mean deep connection, I don't know, I saw it might be a bit too much of a word, but you know, I think you're right. You need to click right Like oh yeah, I see myself opening up to that person.

Melissa Hartfiel: 56:07

Yeah, because if you're not comfortable opening up, you're not going anywhere no. Yeah, yeah, so that's actually very helpful advice. So thank you very much for that, jen. Where can people find you online or in person?

Geneviève Retzlaff: 56:23

They can. I'm in Vancouver, so I'm new to Vancouver. Actually, I just moved from Germany and so I'm always looking for new connections. So if you're listening to this in Vancouver, you can hit me up for a coffee chat. I always like to meet new people. But yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. My site is grow-better-togethercom grow better together. And yeah, you can send me an email or look at the website or LinkedIn. I'm always available to meet new connections and like-minded people.

Melissa Hartfiel: 57:00

That is great. We will put links to all of this in the show notes. We'll also put links. We'll leave a link to Brené Brown's website and everything else that we talked about. Oh, thank you, Perfect yes so all that was because I think the values exercise would be very helpful to a lot of people, so that's a great place to start. Yes, so thank you so much for being here this week. It was such a pleasure to get a chance to talk to you.

Geneviève Retzlaff: 57:26

So, hey, thanks for having me, and then happy 2024. It's about to start and all of the goals being written down and hopefully achieved by the end of the year that's right, that's.

Melissa Hartfiel: 57:38

Our goal right now is to get all of you out there listening to just. We all start the year off with the best of intentions and then, as I said, it tends to dissipate as the year goes on. But we want to keep you in that feeling of optimism and fresh start and just having, I think, the confidence to make changes where they need to be made, Because that can be a big step. So, yes, thank you so much. That is it for us this week. We'll be back again in another two weeks with another brand new episode and we will talk to you all then. We'll see you next week.