Community Building during Detention? Take a Hike! with Leslie Trundy

Does your school's detention program do little to teach students how to make better choices in the future? Many do because detention is not used as a learning opportunity. In this episode Leslie Trundy shares how talking students on a hike as an alternative to after school detention actually works as a teaching opportunity and changes detention from punishment to community building. 

Links

Outdoor Skills Leadership class mentioned in episode

Maine Public Media story about detention hikes

Transcript

Scott Lee: Greetings friends and colleagues, welcome to The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast, the professional educator’s thought partner-a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. I am Scott Lee. If you would like to learn more about how we partner with schools and education organizations please visit our website at www.oncoursesolutions.net and reach out.

Our guest today is Leslie Trundy. Leslie is a school counselor at Morse High School in Bath, Maine, which she describes as her dream job. In addition to her counseling duties, she is the advisor to the Outing Club-which she will mention in our conversation and the Interact Club which is a service club sponsored by Rotary International. She has two grown children and as you might guess, in her spare time she enjoys hiking as well as reading and cooking. We start our conversation discussing how she decided to became a school counselor while hiking the Appalachian Trail.

Thank you so much for joining us today on The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast. Leslie. 

Leslie Trundy: You're welcome. Thanks for having me. 

Scott Lee: So, first off just tell us the story about how you decided to become a school counselor. 

Leslie Trundy: Yes, thank you. I went to Michigan State, I'm from Michigan originally and I went to Michigan State as an undergrad and like many undergrads, I wasn't exactly sold on what I wanted to study or what my pathway would be. But I landed in the social science department and, I took courses with a focus on the psychology of health and the cultural like anthropology of health. So, looking at the way different cultures viewed health. 

So, I had like a health studies major in social science and as an undergraduate, there were a couple courses I did that were very pivotal in terms of my development later in deciding to get a master's and become a school counselor, and one of them was I was a health advocate. So, I was tasked with, learning all about public health campaigns and developing a public health campaign in three topic areas that interested me. I did one on eating disorders, one on recycling, and one on organ donation.

I came up with these public health campaigns that were distributed across the very large Big 10 college campus. So that was a real pivotal thing for me. And then I also, was a resident assistant and my job there was to just welcome students in the first and second year to help them feel comfortable at the college and make sure that they adjusted to, to the campus. And when I thought later about jobs I really enjoyed and what I might wanna do, while I was through hiking the Appalachian Trail when I got done hiking the trail, I was gonna figure out the pathway to become, get the training to become a school counselor. Because thinking back shops I liked, those were the ones and that really rose to the top as a career where I could utilize my skillset and support the next generation. 

Scott Lee: So, tell us about, hiking the Appalachian Trail. I live close to that, and I have, have hiked parts of it myself. [Yeah], Yeah but never through hiked the entire trail. [Yeah.] What was that experience like and how did that, I guess, I'm sure that had to helped at least plant a seed that, being outdoors was good for kids? 

Leslie Trundy: Definitely. I through hiked the Appalachian Trail with little to no experience backpacking, I was one of those folk. I had done a little bit of backpacking and I definitely had done hiking and I really felt like my soul was awakened when I hiked in Maine. And, out west and Alaska and, on my way to Alaska, like anytime that I hike, I, I feel, I feel an incredible closeness to something bigger than what I'm, who I am and in the moment I'm in, you know? The mountains really, I think can be very grounding and they certainly are for me. And so, I, but I didn't really have any business being successful on the Appalachian Trail. I started on April 1st and met an incredible group of people who were also headed north. And I got to learn about how to use all my gear, which I had barely set up.

But I, the trail is for me it was such a wonderful teacher of, feeling confident in a new skill set. When you're starting out on the, AT, at least in my approach to it, I wasn't planning to do huge miles. I was planning to like, find my way on it. So, I started slow, but pretty quickly built up a confidence in terms of, mileage and what I, what I was able to do. And what's cool about the Appalachian Trail too, is you cross over state lines and it, it's extremely gratifying until you get to Virginia and then you have like 500 miles. 

Scott Lee: Oh, yeah. Yeah. That is, that's a long section.

Leslie Trundy: Yeah. It's 100% why I thought that this detention hike might be something because I, I've never felt more emotionally healthy or physically healthy than, than that time period in my life. I, and I finished on October 12th, so for me it was a six-and-a-half-month experience. And I did take a few short breaks, but mostly I was on trail throughout that time period.

[Yeah.] And the, the simplicity of just carrying what you needed on your back. And experiencing each day and whatever that day included. And, one of the biggest lessons from the trail I think I keep to this day is just like, even if you're hiking through rain, eventually the rain's gonna stop and you can dry your gear and, you can do a lot to take care of yourself that you don't necessarily think about because you have what you need, you can layer up, you can take breaks, all those things.

Scott Lee: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie Trundy: It was incredible experience. I loved it. 

Scott Lee: What, what was your trail name? 

Leslie Trundy: My trail name was, Annapurna, which comes from a book that I read before I through hike called Annapurna, A Women's Place by Arlene Blum. She was a, a scientist who came of age, went to Reed College in Oregon, and discovered mountaineering in Oregon. And then as a young woman in the seventies, really couldn't get on any expeditions. And so, she decided to form her own all female team to hike Annapurna in, Nepal. And, they funded their trip by selling t-shirts that said “Annapurna, A Woman's Place Is on Top.”

Scott Lee: That's, that's great. 

Leslie Trundy: Yeah. And the name, the name means Harvest Goddess. Or Goddess Sustenance. Ah. And I knew that food scarcity is real on the trail, so I thought that that could be a good omen. 

Scott Lee: Yeah. Oh yeah, that's got to be the hardest thing. Getting enough calories and, and protein or it can be brutal while all the, all the same. Well worth it. Everybody I know that has done it has, has said that. 

Leslie Trundy: Yeah. 

Scott Lee: So, we're gonna talk about, detention hikes in just a minute. But first off, tell us about your school.

Leslie Trundy: Yeah. This is my 21st year working at Morris High School as a school counselor.

And, this school has a long and proud history. We're considered to have one of the oldest largest and most active public high school alumni associations in the whole country. It's a high school that's grounded in history, but I find has a very nimble and dynamic leadership team that is supportive, I feel like we honor the history, we attend to the present, but we're like thinking about the future too. And, those pieces I think are why I was a, I was able to start this, program at our high school. We have about 600 students. We have an attached technical high school, so they're very much a part of the school; it's a regional technical school. And we have students from other high schools come to our campus to take technical programs. And we also offer a lot of advanced placement courses. So, we really have, a wide range of learners. We don't have a lot of racial diversity, but we do have a lot of socioeconomic diversity and aspiration diversity. We have students who are planning to go to a four-year college and we also have students who plan to go right to work. Locally, we have, we are one of the largest employers in the, in the state through Bath Iron Works. There's two kind of commercial shipyards in the country. Mm-hmm. And one of them is here in Bath, Maine. And this is a new school for us too that we moved out of a school that we had had for over a hundred years, which was closer to town. So, we've been in on this campus about five years. 

Scott Lee: And you said about 600 students. So, still by the standards of a lot of American high schools, it's relatively small for a high school. 

Leslie Trundy: That's right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It is. When I first started it was 850, so population change has impacted that a little bit. We had a- people that were part of the Brunswick Naval Air Station that lived here. And when that closed, we saw our enrollment go down. But just, we offer a lot for us for a little bit smaller school. Yeah. 

Scott Lee: Mm-hmm. So, let's talk about detention hikes. How did you come up with that idea and yeah, we've had a couple of episodes in the past about doing detention differently. But this is, still unique among ideas for detention from some of our other episodes. So yeah, how'd you come up with the idea? 

Leslie Trundy: Definitely. So last year was my fourth year running the, outing club at our high school. And, when I started the club, we were, an optional organization called “Teens to Trails.” And they are a statewide organization that supports high schools and middle schools and outdoor programming with youth. There's different workshops and so there were other advisors from other clubs and other people that just care about youth and being in the outdoors. So, I went to this leadership conference. My daughter had just graduated from high school and I was contemplating what did I want year four to look like? How could I grow the club so that, more students could have access and know about what we were doing? And, that was like, where my head was, was wanting to figure out a way to grow the club. And one of the workshops that I did was basically like, why two hours in the woods can make a big difference. And the person who was doing the workshop was a woman named Megan Mack. She was, she runs the outdoor program for a nearby private school.

And Megan was talking about, the work that she does and she was talking about, meditation and, really just like the benefit of being outdoors. And she led us through an exercise where she asked us to look off so that we weren't looking at anyone else. And we could either close our eyes and be guided with her words or we could. Just like look off at nature and it was this fall day, the de-leafing sunlight, was alongside a body of water. I mean, it was just an exquisite day, you know, kind of like a fall breeze and as she was talking. For me, I was just thinking she was talking about two hours. Two hours. Two hours. And, and when I worked in the old high school, we used to have this, opportunity for kids to, instead of three hours indoors and detention in a room, they could do two hours of community service. And so, I started thinking like two hours and then I suddenly was like, “I wonder if I could take those detention kids.”

Two hours in the woods and the administration would like that would clear the decks for them. They wouldn't owe the school anymore time. That would satisfy having broken a school rule. [Mm-hmm.] So, this was a Friday that I kind of was thinking about it and I just pitched it on a regular Monday morning meeting with administration that I have, and they said, “would you like to take the kids this Thursday?” Because Thursday is the day of detention. 

I said I'd love to take the kids. And so right away I had my very first group and almost immediately I was like, well, I loved it immediately 'cause I got to like, share why I was doing it, invite them to join the club, spend time outdoors that I might normally be sitting at my desk and working. And really like as a school counselor, take the show on the road and be able to talk to, high schoolers in an authentic way, but we're walking and talking. Almost immediately I recognized how valuable it was. 

Scott Lee: Yeah. 

Leslie Trundy: For, for me and for the kids. 

Scott Lee: Uhhuh. And, and this is separate from the other, hiking experiences you do as part of your club, right? 

Leslie Trundy: Yes. So, the club we do day events and also overnight events. 

Scott Lee: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie Trundy: Yes, it's separate. And, but the detention hike happens almost every Thursday. And I would say the outings that I plan with the students are more, I've built it up so that now I try and do at least one day and one overnight outing a month, with the exception of like December's a tough month to get anything planned because of the holidays. So yeah, but, but this detention hike has really become something I look forward to. And it happens with high frequency.

Scott Lee: Yeah. 'cause usually if, if you've got to supervise detention, that's as much of a punishment for the educator as it is for the kids. So, yeah, I think it's so interesting that you, you say you look forward to, detention now. 

Leslie Trundy: I do look forward to it. Sometimes kids are really wonderfully reflective about what happened. They'll talk about, with each other. They'll say like, “oh, what did you do to get here?” And. But, sometimes they're like telling each other, but then after we spread out a little, I'll ask them a little bit more about what happened or what was contributing to what led to what happened.

And really just like ask them to reflect a little with me, but we're walking and we're not, I'm not sitting facing them. And there's something about that, that I think sometimes people can, they talk a little bit more when they're, when there's movement involved. 

Scott Lee: Yeah. Yeah. I've often found the same thing that it's, that it's a lot easier to have a conversation with anybody but a student also, even, even walking down the hallway is easier sometimes. [Yeah.] Than, than sitting in a classroom. So, have you collected any data about the program or whether it's numbers or not or what are some experiences you could share? 

Leslie Trundy: Yeah, I have kept track of, all sorts of details about the hike. I certainly was interested in knowing, who was hiking with me. Looking at like gender of who is hiking with me, who is choosing to hike, because that's the other thing that I think is important is that I'm an option for an alternative to, to the three-hour detention. 

Scott Lee: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie Trundy: And what I've found is that sometimes a student will have a one-hour detention and they'll choose the two-hour hike with me, as opposed to spending an hour indoors. Or they'll have a two-hour detention, or the three-hour detention. So, I'm like an option for a range of different kids. That, that happen to have detention on Thursday. So, I'll keep track of like who's hiking with me. We'll keep track of what they got in trouble for, and to see sort of what are the main things that are kids are getting in trouble for that will choose to hike with me.

That's just interesting to me. And then I've kept track of how far we go, how long it takes us. 'cause that can really vary depending on the group of students that I'm hiking with. And then things that happen on the hike because sometimes things happen that are super memorable and, it's nice to be able to reflect on that and remember it for the kids or mention it to their other school counselor. Because there's three of us here, so sometimes especially if it's something positive that I notice a student stepping up and being more of a leader on our hike. Even though it's just really two hours together. It's funny, the stages of the hike and what will, what will sort of happen along the way.

Scott Lee: Yeah. Yeah. And, I just thought about this. When you mentioned sometimes students will choose to come on a longer or to go on a hike, even though that's longer than they have to serve their detention. And I kind of think about an episode a couple of seasons ago, Steve Van Bockern mentioned that, and they were, they did a restorative process type of detention program for elementary students. And one of the things that they started noticing is kids who were not assigned their detention were showing up anyway. Yeah. And it sounds like you had a, you're having a similar type of experience in some ways.

Leslie Trundy: I definitely have. I feel like for whatever reason, last year I had more students who opted in for the hikes. Maybe it was the novelty of the program. I definitely had some opting in this past fall as well. But sometimes the winter hikes, I'll have less of that, you know? [Mm-hmm.] I think people get busy too, but, yeah, kids, kids will come, maybe their friend has detention and they'll choose to come on the detention to keep their friend company, or they just like to be out.

Yeah. Uhhuh. 

Scott Lee: Yeah. So, tell us two or three stories that have happened, on the hikes that kind of stand out to you, as either interesting or poignant. 

Leslie Trundy: Well, I mean, one thing I will say is I really see these kids as leaders in the school community. There's a boy that I really think of as like the ma, the mayor of Morris. He, he tends to know everybody and he is kind of young, but he just really knows a lot of the kids. And he, he has a way to connect with other people. And, sometimes he has broken the school rules. So that's how I got to know him a lot better was, because he would come on the hikes with me. And sometimes when he's on the hike. Even though he is young, he's almost like a second adult on the hike because especially if there's a group of younger kids, he, he kind of holds everyone and he'll call the attention if he notices I'm trying to share something, he'll, he'll get others to settle in. And and that's been incredible to watch his growth.

Another example is, I'm listening to the kids, I'm always listening and if I think of a kid that might be a good resource for something that I know is happening in the school, I'll mention it. And on one of the hikes we, he was on, I mentioned how the variety show was looking for more ushers to help with the event that weekend. And not only did he sign up to be an usher and he did a great job. There was another student on the hike who had ushered the year before, but didn't realize, and this student was in trouble because they were late often, so they had like missed morning announcements that they needed usher.

So that was kind of fun to be able to connect kids to a, a leadership opportunity. Really, if you're a a, an usher for the school, you're sort of frontline. 

Scott Lee: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie Trundy: And this boy, he, this is like the craziest thing, but last fall, like, I think it was like the fourth hike or something, there was, we'd done the whole hike and we were, we were coming back onto campus and there was myself, three boys and a girl, and the girl kind of peeled off when we got to the bridge. So, it was just the boys and I walking over the bridge back onto campus. And this boy, he started singing it was like a, a boy band song “I wanted the, I wanted that way.” Just acapella.

And every other boy, including, including me, we, we just started singing with them. because we all knew the words. And we sang the song going over the bridge and then the boy was like, “oh, we can do better.” So we sang it again. We sang it again, and it was like such a bonding moment, the singing this song. And we came into the main office and the boy was like, “one more time.”

So, we sang it one more time and the main office and the secretaries were like, “what is happening, you know, this is fire?” So, and because I had shared that story in an interview like this, we had someone who does marketing for, a Las Vegas show called The Boy Band Remix, and they're gonna come to campus and they want us to reenact, pull the band back together, so to speak.

So, the boys were like in this funny moment of. Being connected to a Las Vegas live show.

Scott Lee: That's great. All because you got detention, I mean, 

Leslie Trundy: yeah. Yeah. 

Scott Lee: So, you've kind of touched on it already, but how do you think this affects the culture of the school? 

Leslie Trundy: I so be even before any of this notoriety because the notoriety has been really wild and I, I am so grateful and proud to have like raised awareness to this idea, and to offer the spotlight to some kids who I think deserve it, you know? But even before any of that happened, like literally after the very first hike, I was shopping in the grocery store and one of the boys stopped me. He was like, restocking the produce, and he said, “oh, Mrs. Trundy, my friends really love that hike they took with you.” And I was like looking at him because he wasn't connected to any of the kids that do outing club. And, he was like, “yeah, like the detention hike.” And I was like, I, I just couldn't believe it. Like, he was like, “yeah, they really liked it.”

And that was, that was what I kept hearing again and again from the kids. Thank you. This was great. That was really awesome. Parents saying that they were really appreciative that their child had that opportunity and, then, I, I started to share it, I had the first person that I shared it with that was a reporter, went on a hike last spring.

And the question she was asking, and as I started to talk about it with reporters, I, I recognized that not only was I sharing my love of the outdoors with kids, but a big thing that was really happening was building community with them. Make, changing a detention, which can be, a punishment like you did something wrong.

We're punishing you you're facing the corner kind of philosophy rather than that philosophy of serving the detention, the fact that they're serving the detention with me as school counselor in the outdoors, it, it changed it to this community building. And it changed it to, you're still part of our community and you're important part of our community and you need to serve your time, but we're gonna do it in a way that keeps you connected.

That's what I started to recognize. I was the difference that this alternative was having if kids, you know, opted into it 'cause they were, and that's where I kind of really recognized the power and the potential for it to change things. For us, and it's not like kids don't get in trouble, but I feel like when they get in trouble and they choose this alternative, what can come out the other end can be much more positive.

Scott Lee: Yeah. Because learning to build community rather than sitting alone, quiet or even in a group quietly [Yeah.] Is a huge, huge difference. So. Somebody's listening out there and they say, “oh, we need to do this at our school.” What advice do you have for them? 

Leslie Trundy: Yeah, I, I definitely feel like it's replicable.

I would say the most important things to consider are who, what, where, when, how. And then part of that, how would be safety, like how to do it safely in your community. And, for me, answering the who, what, where, when, how those, those were sort of simple because it was my idea. So, I was the one who was gonna, who was gonna do it and the kids would opt in.

I felt like that was important. And then just like thinking about what are your local resources? 'cause we're lucky enough that we can hike locally where we can access a nature trail not too far off campus. And so, we don't have to spend any time with transportation or driving to a trail. I have done that in a few limited instances for different specific reasons, but mostly we just like walk from here. And then thinking about the when of it, for me, it makes sense to, to do it on Thursdays when detention's happening and we pretty much go in any weather. But then, I have, I have resources if it's raining or I communicate if it's cold or I have extra hats and gloves and, and then just like what your goals are.

And for me, I, I have pretty small goals. Mostly we're gonna walk and then I weave in a few other things that are important to me. But I think like, being clear with yourself about what your expectations are and then communicating safety, and being in charge, having a first aid kit, things like that.

And make sure I have a cell phone and if I need to contact an administrator for any reason [mm-hmm.] Or if they need to contact me to communicate. 'cause I do have the kids off campus and we have like a field permission slip to take kids on field trips and so we kind of cover it that, that I've got them off campus. 

Scott Lee: Mm-hmm. 

Leslie Trundy: So, thinking about some of those practicalities within your school community. And working with administration, I think they've been integral to communicating about what I'm doing and, making sure that the kids are safe. I have a lot, I have some trainings under my belt, as an outing club advisor.

I have an educational chip leader training, and I'm also wilderness First Aid trained. Even though we're not in the deep woods, I feel confident bringing kids because I, I know. Those factors. 

Scott Lee: Right, right. 

Leslie Trundy: Yeah. 

Scott Lee: So, are there other resources if somebody wants to find out more? 

Leslie Trundy: Yeah, I did like an article with we are teachers where I kind of like answered those who, what, where, when, and I gave some thoughts and I'm also happy to talk to anyone who wants to, I'd be happy to, share some of those guidelines or some thoughts that I, essential questions that you might ask yourself to get it started. Also look for partnerships. And whether that's partnering with administration or like I have this parent organization “Teens to Trails” that I've had some trainings through and things like that. 

Scott Lee: Yeah, and we'll put some links on our website to, help folks find you and, and find these other resources as well.

Leslie Trundy: Great. 

Scott Lee: Thank you so much for joining us today, Leslie. 

Leslie Trundy: You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Scott Lee: The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is brought to you as a service of Oncourse Education Solutions. If you would like to learn more about how we partner with schools and youth organizations strengthening learning cultures and developing more resilient youth, please visit our website at w w w dot oncoursesolutions dot net. Also, please follow me on social media, my handle on Instagram and Bluesky is @drrscottlee and on Mastodon @drrscottlee@universedon.com

This has been episode 3 of the 2026 season. If you enjoy this podcast, please tell your friends and colleagues about us, in person and on social media. Also, five-star reviews on your podcast app helps others find us. The Thoughtful Teacher Podcast is a production of Oncourse Education Solutions LLC, Scott Lee producer. Guest was not compensated for appearance, nor did guest pay to appear. Episode notes, links and transcripts are available at our website w w w dot thoughtfulteacherpodcast dot com. Theme music is composed and performed by Audio Coffee.