The Winter Blues: Why You Feel Low, and How to Shine Again

Does winter have you feeling tired or blue? You’re not alone. This episode dives into the science of Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), from drop in serotonin to 10,000-lux hacks to help you find your glow.  https://bit.ly/49T74ZG

In this Episode:

• 00:00 – Intro, and Charlie Converses with Neil deGrasse Tyson
• 03:08 – Tips on Longevity: 100-year Old Albert, Be Honest, Be Nice, Be Kind – and Be Determined
• 06:46 – Recipe of the Week: Polish Ham Roll-Ups
• 07:42 – Do You Feel a Winter Slump? Learn Why
• 08:46 – The Connection Between Light and Mood
• 09:51 – Light Therapy for Seasonal and Non-Seasonal Depression
• 12:24 – Discussion: Time Changes, Indoor Work, Artificial Light
• 17:07 – How to Be Proactive to Prevent Seasonal Mood Disorders
• 20:14 – Outro

The Science Behind the Winter Slump
Learn why January feels emotionally heavier for so many people and how seasonal changes in light can directly affect mood, energy, and motivation. This episode explores Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), the “winter blues,” circadian rhythm disruption, serotonin and dopamine changes, and the research behind bright-light therapy—including why a 10,000-lux light box is often recommended.

#SeasonalAffectiveDisorder #MentalHealthMatters #WinterBlues #LightTherapy #SAD #CircadianRhythm #BiohackingMentalHealth #SunlightIsMedicine #WellnessPodcast #BrainChemistry 

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Everyone Dies, where we talk about the things most people avoid, but we all need to understand. This week's discussion is about Seasonal Affective Disorder, a form of depression that arrives like an unwelcome winter guest and doesn't leave till spring. January is here, and with it comes a kind of darkness that feels different.

The days are short, the light is scarce, and for many of us, our mood settles into the same low place as the winter sun. Every year, millions of people experience a dip in mood, energy, and motivation as the days get darker. Turn on a lamp so you're not in the dark and settle in for our podcast about serious illness, dying, death, and bereavement.

Because even though everyone dies, no one has to face it unprepared. I'm Marianne Matzo, a nurse practitioner, and I use my experience from working as a nurse for 47 years to help answer your questions about what happens at the end of life. And I'm Charlie Navarrette, an actor in New York City, and here to offer an every-person viewpoint to our podcast.

We're both here because we believe that the more you know, the better prepared you are to make difficult decisions when a crisis hits. And remember, this podcast does not provide medical nor legal advice, so please listen to the complete disclosure at the end of the recording. In the first half, Charlie continues his series about advice from 90-year-olds on longevity and living well and also has our recipe of the week.

In the second half, we're talking about seasonal affective disorder. Even if you've never been diagnosed, you might notice the winter blues, feeling heavier, sleepier, and just not yourself. And later in our third half, Charlie has some thoughts about how to survive the dark months with humor, perspective, and, I don't know, maybe a little joy.

So Charlie, it's mid-January. How did we get here already? The rotation of the earth. I'm going to go with that.

You know, I didn't know Neil deGrasse Tyson was on the show this week. Yes, yes. Neil and I talk once in a while, and actually there was one time I was on the subway, I looked up and there was Neil deGrasse Tyson.

And we just got into a discussion of Pluto. Remember when he's... The dog? Yes, Mickey's dog. And then it switched to the quote, not planet, unquote Pluto, which is what Tyson referred to Pluto as.

And we started to chat about it, and at one point he said, look, get over it. It's not a planet. You had to be there.

It was very funny. So that's my Neil deGrasse Tyson story. Wow.

And that's why I still stay in New York. I bump into people like that. Well, at least you have a reason, dear.

Yes. So in our first half, Susan Fitzgerald profiled people in their 90s and published their tips for longevity and living well. I'm running fast into my 90s, so I'm looking to see what I can do to be the grandest 90-year-old on the block.

This week we meet Albert, age 100, whose defining characteristic is determination. Albert last saw his mother when he was 19 and the Nazis were advancing on Poland. She died in the Holocaust, along with other relatives.

He still remembers one of his mother's early lessons, be honest, be nice, be kind. He also internalized another lesson, don't give up. If I have something on my mind, I do it.

I don't stop until I finish it. You can call it stubbornness, but I call it determination. The trait is so important to him that he used it for the title of his memoir, Determination, Through the Holocaust, War and Beyond.

We put a link in the show notes for the book, which he published five years ago. It recounts his life growing up in Poland with a single mother, escaping the Nazis and serving in the Polish army under Russian command. Upon immigrating to the United States in 1949, Pollack settled in Cleveland, where his aunt and uncle lived.

He worked as a photographer and was especially skilled at touching up negatives in the era before digital photography. He made mothers of brides and grooms look younger and removed pimples on high school graduates. I didn't change their looks, I just made them look better, he says.

Over the years, his photo studio expanded to include custom framing. Pollack married his second wife, Madeline, 41 years ago, and among them they have four children, eight grandchildren, and nine great-grandchildren. They've always lived in the same house, which is filled with design touches and renovations they did themselves.

At the age of 80, Pollack pulled up wall-to-wall carpeting and installed ash flooring. He helped build a playground in their Cleveland suburb and says being involved in their community has always been a priority. If someone calls and they needed advice, I took my toolbox and solved their problem, he says.

Pollack and his wife gave up red meat back in the 1980s, and Madeline makes their meals from scratch using vegetables and herbs from their garden and greenhouse, which Pollack built. He does have macular degeneration and can see only slightly with his left eye. That makes it hard for him to walk around his garden or neighborhood, but he gets in 1,000 steps a day by walking around inside.

The house, which is one story and wheelchair accessible, was built 41 years ago with the idea that he and Madeline could live there forever. When Pollack turned 100, he invited family and about 65 friends to celebrate if they were vaccinated and boosted against COVID-19. At this age, I couldn't want anything more, he says.

Even if I had 10 million dollars in the bank, it wouldn't please me more than seeing my great-grandchildren every day. In honor of Albert's Polish heritage, our recipe this week is for Polish ham roll-ups. Cream cheese is spread on Polish ham with a pickle in the center, rolled up, and sliced into bite-sized delights.

The optional crunch of crushed up Doritos is an added delight. What a great finger food to bring to your next funeral lunch. Bon Appetit! Please go to our webpage for this week's recipe and for additional resources for this program.

This is the part where we ask for your financial support. Your tax-deductible gift will go directly to supporting our non-profit journalism so that we can remain accessible to everyone. You can donate at www.everyonedies.org or at our site on Patreon under Everyone Dies.

Marianne? Thank you, Charlie, and welcome to January, where we spend more time in the dark, which for many people also matches their mood. My last job before I retired, I worked as an oncology nurse practitioner four days a week from 6 30 till 4 30 in the afternoon. This meant I went to work and returned home in the dark.

It was really strange to never see the sun all winter except through the window. For many people, the darkened days of winter brings with it seasonal affective disorder known as SAD, a type of depression that typically begins in the fall or winter with symptoms of lower moods, lackluster energy, reduced pleasure, and extreme sleepiness that affects an estimated 5% of Americans. Women are four times as susceptible as men to developing SAD.

Many more people are to experience a milder version known as the winter blues. Noman Rosenthal, a psychiatrist at Georgetown University School of Medicine, first described and named the condition in 1984. Rosenthal theorized that there was a connection between light and why some people like him had diminished mood in winter.

Researchers believe that wintertime SAD is caused by reduced sunlight, which can desynchronize our internal circadian rhythm from the natural light cycles outside. Light is invigorating and mood lifting. Specialized photoreceptors in the retina, that's in the eye, connect directly to mood-related areas of the brain.

Research documents that people also have seasonal variations in mood related to neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine. To fight SAD, the answer is to provide more light where it is missing. The standard treatment for SAD is bright light therapy with a light box that delivers at least 10,000 lux of light.

Usual indoor lights are typically less than a thousand lights. Direct sunlight can go up to 100,000 lux as a way of comparison. Now, you know, I always say you can get anything on Amazon and you can get your light box there.

Just make sure you're looking for the 10,000 lux of light. A 2015 study by Rohan and colleagues documented that light therapy is effective at improving mood and reducing symptoms of SAD in about 64% of patients. SAD symptoms tend to peak in January and February, but the onset can vary from person to person.

Think about how you're feeling. Are you more tired or depressed than were last month? How were you at this time last year? Start to prepare in the fall if you had issues last winter. Getting a light box, even if you're not sure, can also be helpful in non-seasonal depression.

A 2025 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association suggested that bright light therapy was effective as an added treatment for non-seasonal depression and may speed up treatment response. Light therapy is most typically prescribed in the early morning, which studies show is the most effective time to shift circadian rhythms to associate with the environment. Because light therapy is replacing what is missing, using light therapy near the end of the day can also be effective so you don't have the suddenness of the winter darkness.

Besides using light boxes inside, try walking outside in the sun, which can help treat your biology. Antidepressants and cognitive behavioral therapy are very effective for many kinds of depression, and SAD is no exception. Even if you're losing 10% of your usual functioning this season, if you're feeling just a bit more tired, more down, or worried, it's something that needs to be identified and addressed.

You want to have peak experiences and joy in life. Don't let the darkness take that from you. Remember, if you are buying a light box, get one with 10,000 lux of light.

In our third half, Charlie has some other thoughts to help you through the winter months of low light. Charlie? Yeah, this whole thing about light, there's been a push to eliminate our time changes. We fall back an hour and then in the fall we jump ahead an hour.

So what you were saying, when you were working full time, you woke up in the dark and you left in the dark. There's a push to get rid of that, so that we're just always on the same daylight saving time. Naturally, in the evening it will be dark, but it's not going to be dark at 4.30 in the afternoon, which is what happens on the East Coast.

It affects a lot of people, and usually stuff like that doesn't affect me, but now that I'm just a little older, I am beginning to notice it. Oh, really? I don't like it, and stop it. Make it stop, Marianne.

I think every president over the past several presidents have said, and Congress got into act and agreed, yeah, we really need to eliminate this, and nobody ever does it. Okay, thank you for listening to me. I will step off my soapbox now.

Yeah, and the other thing too, what you were saying about the, oh shoot, what was it? Circadian rhythm. Circadian rhythm, yeah, that thing. Yeah, I mean, what? For tens of thousands of years, people did not use an alarm clock.

It was just, as you were describing, nature. Letting nature take its course, and our bodies adjusted to it. So this whole thing of setting the alarm clock, and waking up in the dark, and all that stuff, yeah, this is brand new.

Really, just maybe, I was going to say 200 years ago when the industrial revolution began, but not even 200 years ago. I mean, much less. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Because, you know, you woke up with the sun, and then you went outside, and, yes, you know, milk the cows, or whatever one did. You didn't stay all day in a building.

Correct, yeah, yeah. Which is really cruel and unusual punishment. Well, and the other thing too, when, at least at the time, you know, if it was some warehouse or factory, yeah, those conditions were horrible.

But at least if you were in some office building, you know, office buildings, you know, back in the day were bigger, and there was more light, et cetera. Not now. It's, I mean, you know, current office buildings are just sterile, and windows are much smaller.

But, yeah, that. It's just, yeah, people just not aware how much light affects you. And, yeah, and I've run into people say, oh, no, no, I only need four hours of sleep a night, and this.

And I do believe that. It's not one size fits all. But for the vast majority, you need your light.

And you need your sleep. Yes. Speaking of light, what about artificial light? I mean, just simple light bulbs.

Does that? Well, like I said, a light bulb is 1,000, and you need 10,000. Oh, that's what it was. Right, right, right.

In order to, you know, get that light effect. Yeah. And when I was working, I bought a light box, and I put it on my desk, and I would have it on, like, in the morning when I was answering phone calls or, you know, charting or whatever.

And then when I left, I gave it to a nurse practitioner that I worked with, and she said, why are you giving this to me? Do you think I'm depressed? I said, no, this, this, you know, you're now stuck in the office, too. And so this is my, I'm gifting my stuff to you. I think she was a little insulted that I gave it to her, but that wasn't the intent.

It was like, this just can help you feel better, even if you don't know that you need it. Yeah. No, very true.

Very true. All righty. For our third half, I have for you some ways that you can manage seasonal affective disorder, or SADD for short.

It is easier to prepare for and prevent winter SADD than to dig ourselves out of depression later. First, get a light box for bright light therapy and use it in the morning to recalibrate your circadian rhythms. Specific light-sensitive receptors in the retinas of our eyes connect directly to mood areas in the brain.

Light has antidepressant and alerting properties, and is recommended as therapy for other non-seasonal mood disorders. Bright light therapy is the standard treatment for SADD. It mimics outdoor light and can reduce symptoms in about 67% of people with milder SADD, and in about 40% of people with severe SADD.

When you use it correctly, it can be an effective treatment for winter SADD with minimal side effects. This works best if you start using light therapy at the very first symptoms each year. Don't wait until you are fully depressed to start.

The very first day you wake up and say, I feel more tired than I did yesterday, is your cue to start light therapy. Light is not so a temporary intervention, but rather an environmental change that you permanently need. Next, talk with your primary healthcare practitioner.

If you do not have an official diagnosis of winter SADD, but find symptoms have gotten in the way of your daily life, ask your primary care practitioner for a referral to a qualified mental health professional. You wouldn't want to treat a cancer diagnosis on your own, so don't try to manage SADD by yourself. Alerting a trusted therapist can help to catch early signs of SADD symptoms and provide support.

Psychotherapy, especially Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, CBT, has been shown to help with SADD by teaching effective coping skills. Third, keep up routines that help your mental health. When you're feeling depressed in the winter, it's easy to pretend you're a bear and hibernate.

This will just make depression worse. Stay sociable. Engaging in hobbies and exercise can improve your mood.

Preparing early for these activities in the winter, such as having a warm coat to continue your walks or signing up for a dance class, can make it easier to keep up your mood-boosting routines. Lastly, re-evaluate your outlook on the changing seasons. People with winter SADD may have learned negative associations with the signs of autumn and winter.

Instead, try to see the joy of the changing seasons instead of viewing it with dread, which may make the depression worse. And that ends this week's episode. Please stay tuned for the continuing saga of Everyone Dies, and thank you for listening.

You can find more episodes from our series about grief on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app. Follow and subscribe to the show, and share it with someone who needs a little hope today. This is Charlie Navarette, and from writer, director, and actor Woody Allen, I don't want to achieve immortality through my work.

I want to achieve it through not dying. And I'm Marian Matzo, and we'll see you next week. Remember, every day is a gift.

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