The Law in Lockdown and Beyond, with Hannah Beko
A series of conversations with those in the legal profession navigating the ups and downs of the law during and after lockdown. How has this changed the profession as we've emerged from the global pandemic?
The Law in Lockdown and Beyond, with Hannah Beko
Friday Conversation with So Yung Wong, Trainee Solicitor at McMillan Williams
So Yung and I met in the early part of lockdown and I've been impressed by her drive and enthusiasm for her own learning and personal development throughout her period of furlough and returning to complete her training contract. In this episode we discuss her experience of furlough, returning to the office and preparing for her future career.
You can find out more and connect with So Yung on linkedin here.
Podcast host Hannah Beko is a self-employed lawyer, coach and creator of the Lawyers Business Mastermind™ (the place for entrepreneurial lawyers to grow).
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You can connect with Hannah on LinkedIn or visit www.authenticallyspeaking.co.uk.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Friday Conversations. Today I'm really excited to be joined by So Young who is a training solicitor at Macmillan Williams. So hello So Young, come and introduce yourselves to everyone. Tell us a bit more about you.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, hi, Hannah, and good afternoon, everyone. My name is Soyeon, and I'm a third seat trainee at Macmillan Williams. Currently, I'm doing a third seat now in family, and I'll be rotating seats in October, and I'm very pleased that I continue, get to explore, gain a bit more experience in family before I then eventually move on to private clients.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you for that. Now, I think this episode is going to be really interesting to lots of different people, perhaps more of our younger audience, the students, the paralegals, the trainees. But I've known So Young since the start of lockdown, I think. I was running a group for furloughed junior lawyers, and I think that's how So Young and I came to be introduced to each other. So I know she's had a really interesting journey throughout the whole of lockdown and up to the present time. sort of six months later. So, So Young, do you want to just tell us a little bit about your journey starting off in March, really, when the whole pandemic sort of hit?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you very much. So I was actually going through LinkedIn today, just going back, thinking about, you know, how I've actually met you, you know, back in mid-May. And I was fellow on the 1st of April and kind of been brought back to work mid-August. So it's been quite a long time. I didn't really expect lockdown to have carried on and lasted this long. So as soon as I was fellow, I decided to complete, take up all the personal skill course as part of you know our SIA training um to get it out of the way so I can um when I go back to work I can just focus on work and not have to take time and I can make most of my remaining training um because I'm not far from qualification I was like okay every training and every experience counts now and I'm still you know trying to figure out what I really want to do um so I was really lucky that I saw online um and I and I found you um you know advertising your happiness workshop so I joined and I was really lucky and I was really thoughtful of you to have created such a group of fellow people so I get to also find out what people are experiencing in lockdown I mean obviously it has created a lot of anxiety especially for me I was worried if I would be made redundant like job security wise I'm halfway through my training contract so in this climate would there be any firms would even take me on as a trainee so how does it work you know can they make me ever done this, I was kind of looking into employment law as well. So that actually sparked further interest of, you know, going to employment law and I've attended so many webinars trying to fill my time. I've attended so many webinars trying to help me with my practice in family so I can actually know what's going on in the courts and they just bring everything in life, like go through like virtual hearing and there'll be like, you know, look at rooms and stuff. So everything's still marine and financial and how to take um sort of um instructions from clients and i see you know the ballot with courts and stuff and then um i i was trying to fill my time so and then i was really lucky that through a conversation with you actually um in the photo group i got to um find out about the woman in law because i remember i was worried about my job security and so like i need to get my cv ready i need to get everything ready i need to get myself ready contemplating for the worst to come and i was just like okay um how am I going to get myself ready like you know managing client expectation I need to manage my own expectation prepare myself okay if I have to go back to the job market how am I going to prepare myself I was actually drafting perspective covering letter because there was no news from from um from work for a while because everywhere there was a merger as well with my firm and being taken over by another firm so there's just so many changes it's crazy and and then there's not just like you know anxieties I actually been of it a lot. I enjoy doing a lot of things outside work. So I managed to like get back, you know, put my easel up and do some paintings. I go back to like, you know, do some singing in my spare time in my bedroom and like, you know, playing the piano. And then, yeah, I was just keeping myself busy. And I even managed to finish three CPD courses before I was told there was no notice whatsoever to be caught and brought back out of fellow. So I'm really happy that I did that. And that actually helped me in some way, no doubt with clients and listening skills. I did all these like life coaching. I did like intro to psychology, which I found very fascinating, like human connection and relationship building. I even managed like through LinkedIn, it was so useful to have actually met a financial advisor and who has given me a one-to-one three hours training. Yeah, on financial awareness and also pension and divorce proceeding and we managed to maintain a really good relationship because now that I'm back in work, I actually reached out to him to see, I was desperate. We were in tight schedule trying to get someone to help us with getting a quote for like, you know, evaluation of company in such a tight deadline so that we can submit to court and everything. So I was like, really don't have much quotes from the people I reach out to. And I remember somehow, that his firm are like merged with another firm. And it was like the company that I just made an inquiry, but have to leave a voicemail. So I reached out to him to see if there's any one that can help me. And then, and then he was helping me. So, and it was like, you know, one of the really useful contacts we have that we put in an application by a council. So that's just like, you know, they don't estimate the power of networking and also like keeping in touch with people. And I was like, through LinkedIn and we're remote thing like ways of connecting with people even though you know it's not as nice as like seeing people in person and I still haven't met you and we've just been like meeting in line and stuff but I'm really glad you know we managed to like you know maintain and keep in touch and it was just not a one-off like thing just a workshop or just you know a conversation regular and everyone just like developing about relationship and just open up to business opportunities which i just think is so exciting
SPEAKER_00:yes absolutely i mean you've covered so many things there the final point i'll just mention first and then then i'll go back to some of your lockdown experience um so the final thing you mentioned there was was this um you've come across this person networking on linkedin um and then when when you needed somebody for a case urgently they were the person you thought of and got in touch with and i think we talked about this didn't we in some of our furlough sessions you know how you can use this time that we were in lockdown we can't go out and do face-to-face meetings but actually there's still so much useful networking but we can do through LinkedIn and other networking meetings and things online and we have that still that opportunity to build relationships that will be beneficial to us and your example just shows that perfectly
SPEAKER_01:yeah and that contact has kept you know kept mentioning you know if our firm needs you know more training and maybe more people want to benefit from this training he's willing to give us another training and it can be open to like partner which I still haven't actually got a chance to go around to the head of department to put forward this proposal. But I think it's just very exciting. I mean, seeing I'm going to stay in family for a little bit, there'll be more exciting projects go. And
SPEAKER_00:you know, you made me think of something else there as well, which, you know, I also found with talking to you all in the furlough groups is that there seems to be such a change these days in junior lawyers. You know, I think back to when I was a junior lawyer, 15, 17 years ago, And maybe there wasn't any expectation, not from anyone or from ourselves, that we went out and started to particularly network or build these relationships because it was sort of expected that the firm would give us the work and we were training and things. But I know I saw with many of you in the groups that you came along to this want to learn how to network, how to build your businesses and your visibility and your own brands and your own credibility, even at a really young age. And, you know, you you're a trainee solicitor, but you've gone out and got this contact that you're bringing into your team, into the work that you do. So do you think that trainees and younger lawyers are starting to get more involved in their own career development and business development now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would totally agree with that. And I was thinking like before I came online to speak with you, I was thinking also because there's so many resources out there now, support to younger lawyers and to aspiring trainees. Like, you know, how I've given a webinar recently with Sally in the Women Law to share my experience of securing a training contract. I think more is expected of us to try to develop our people skills. And I have taken the time during lockdown and furlough to work on those because I think at the end of the day, you need to maintain good relationship with clients and try to find out what they really want and how you can add value to them and distinguish yourself with others so you can become successful because there's so many players out there. There's so many like, you know, so easy nowadays to provide legal advice. I'm just thinking of the conveyancing at Tesco Law, that kind of thing. So there's so many providers out there now. So I think more is expected definitely with us. And yesterday, you know, with the virtual international weekend I went on, I heard Rob Penner was saying also how, you know, it's all about, you know, networking and also selling yourself, personal branding and stuff. And he touched on how to successfully win new business or making a pitch in the virtual world, which I found very interesting. Oh, that's
SPEAKER_00:good. Yes, Rob, you're one of our early podcast episodes. So yes, I highly recommend people connect with Rob Hanna if they haven't done. So talking about your furlough experience then, I know that you got very involved in so many things as you've listed there and you got back, how you found the time, I don't know, but you found the time to be painting and music as well. So how did you find all that? And how did you then find the transition when you were called back into work?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, at first, those were the things I really enjoyed doing and I didn't necessarily have the time or want to make time because I would maybe prefer meeting friends, but now we can't really do that because of lockdown. Everything is shut and now there's more restrictions. And so I've been keeping in touch with people just like virtually, you know, through WhatsApp or, you know, link and team and stuff.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, it was really weird. And then I thought, okay, now that I'm more focusing on my career, I need to do something alongside that may be also linked. And I somehow developed an interest like sharing experience of getting a training contract. And now I remember we had a conversation about sharing my experience of giving my first webinar. And we had such a good conversation about, you were coming out with ideas and topics that maybe I could do. I ordered like a webcam, a professional webcam. Like when I do something, I really go for it. And then maybe sometimes it's just too much and I would never get around doing it because I was just like, I have so much expectation on myself. So that's the thing. When I was told that I was going back to work, there was not much notice. I think I was given like about less than a week notice. I was told on Wednesday or something in August. And then I was told to come back on the Monday and my immediate response, I still remember I remember saying to my supervisor, I know she would be like, I should be responding in a more enthusiastic way, but like straight in my head, I was thinking, oh my God, how am I going to go to work? And it's not talking about just returning to work, it's going back to the office. And I just wish I knew how to drive because I had to take multiple public transport, commute over an hour. public transfer and in the lockdown, I'd rarely go out. I would just go to grocery shopping and I would not drink or eat outside. It was that extreme. So like there was no transition whatsoever. So just going back to the office. So I was really lucky that my friend dragged me out just before I go back to work on a Sunday, kind of like going to bars and restaurants, just preparing me, almost like doing a rehearsal so that I can, I was like, I wouldn't even go to a washroom I was like this is not going to work so they have really helped me and helped me go through my fear and I've reached out to so many people I remember having conversations with yourself and previously also in your coffee and coaching meeting about you know my concerns and anxieties because back in Hong Kong my culture we had sauce before we don't need people to tell us to wear a mask and we already wear a mask because we know how you know we really take it seriously and actually now that I'm going back to work, although I have overcome the fear of taking public transport and actually working in the office, I still wear a mask the whole day. It's just become my new normal now. It's weird. I was the only one wearing it. And at first, you know, there was also some anxiety over, you know, what would people think of me when I'm wearing a mask? Because Okay, I should be grateful that, well, they see it as a negative thing. Now that I'm out of furlough, I was one of the two trainees being brought back in the department. So I know that on top of that, there's a lot of expectation on me to providing the work. So as mentioned previously, I didn't know that lockdown would have lasted that long. So as soon as lockdown and furlough, I was furloughed, I did all the PSC courses. I didn't even think of doing one in family so I reached out to a colleague of mine that I knew because she shared on LinkedIn that she did a PSC in family and I was like can I please have your notes please to like kind of self-study and to get myself ready because I was like okay there would be no time for me to like sit down to learn the stuff I would have to get on with it and just adapt and deal with it and I'm really grateful that you know I have really good supervisors been so supportive throughout supportive throughout and they have helped me a lot. You know, with the social distancing that you have to abide to in the office, I was initially moved to a much further away desk than everyone else, but I raised my concern over training and I want to oversee others interacting with clients because that is also part of my training and they have moved me back to somewhere closer. I managed to switch desk to a secretary who has really helpfully and very supportive agree to move desks and swap desks with me that I managed to get that sorted and continue with a very good relationship with my team because even in lockdown, I don't really hear, I was not involved with any of their WhatsApp groups apart from the people that are on furlough. So they kept like all the work and people on furlough separate. So there was no infringement of confidentiality or anything like this so I don't actually know what's going on and they wouldn't I just wish they would come and I mentioned in our group chat or group conversation before I did wish that you know they come to me and ask you know but then I have to I feel like you know I would I also don't mind figuring out an initiative to like kind of ask them and update them from time to time and reminding them I'm there and I was like and to like tell them you know I'm doing this this this and I also tell them and the webinars that I attended and I've made notes and I provided that to my supervisor just so we can use it maybe in the future or like you know and I was I joined in the recent discussion about you know how to prepare for um like new uh trainees going to the the department which i find very interesting and you know if it wasn't for lockdown and all these personal training and and coaching and stuff i wouldn't have the courage to kind of like voice out my um uh my ideas and stuff which you know i'm i'm still learning and i just so grateful for all the opportunities i mean it's not nice that we find ourselves in lockdown and and um so many lives are unfortunately um um uh, How do I say it? So same as people like lost their lives because of COVID, but it has presented me like opportunities and threats, but how I responded to it and how I react to it and still remaining optimistic and positive about the future, I think that matters a lot. And because of the wellbeing sessions that I attended in all these webinars during lockdown, and also I attended a lot of Monday sessions with the Kent Law Society, they have a wellbeing series during lockdown and I managed to get a 10 dose so now that I'm back in work I'm always so mindful of my well-being and I try to look after myself so I don't get burnt out the other day I left the office so late like near 11 close to 11pm and you know it took me such a long journey to get home but my supervisor was like really nice to give me a lift and I just feel like you know with this lockdown everyone's just more understanding and with my team it's So I just feel, okay, it might be like quite cheesy saying that, but I feel like, you know, we're like a family. Everyone will reach out and look after each other, which I think is really nice working with such supportive colleagues and stuff that I could just talk to you about anything and just not hold back. I mean, if there's an issue, it really, I mean, if something bothers me, I would obviously think about, you know, whether it is an issue or not, but if it really bothers me, I don't want that to turn into a bigger issue and I will just say something about it and I'm glad that you know adjustments can be made and and all that they've just been so supportive and I'm really grateful to my journey so far and training contract and working towards like qualification although that's still concerning for like you know newly qualified um positions and all that and I think a lot um uncertain in the market so um yeah that's a lot of like uncertainties for for solicitors and and and for people joining in I think it's
SPEAKER_00:just not nice. There's so much uncertainty. I know there has been for yourself over the last six months, and I think there is for so many people, but particularly for the junior lawyers who may be finishing training contracts. Some had uncertainty over whether they were going to start or whether they were going to be delayed. And then, of course, there's finishing and there's newly qualified positions and things. So there is going to be, I think, a longer period of uncertainty.
SPEAKER_01:And you've probably come across maybe like trainees working, maybe doing a contract remotely because I don't know whether it's lucky or not but I have experience working from home I have you know before the lockdown before I was furloughed IT has set me up perfectly I've got the firm Service Pro and I could work from home but then eventually I got furloughed and then I actually I was ill last week just like got runny nose and sort of a cold and I just thought okay just to give my supervisor a heads up And eventually I have to self-isolate. and I have to like work from home so I wasn't sure like was it a good thing or not I should have raised concern I was like thinking um code of conduct act with like honesty and integrity and I was like um I need to let them know because in case that I just contemplate I couldn't go to work and stuff and I have a bit of a temperature but I didn't think it would be COVID I was like trying to get tested so hard as well um
SPEAKER_00:yes
SPEAKER_01:but um it it did prove that working from home works. I've been reading about, you know, how trainees are finding it online and sort of like training and supervision. So it'd be interesting to see, because government, like previously, it was so confusing. They're like, work from home. No, actually work in the office, get to the office. And then later they were like, okay, work from home if you can. And I was just like, I'm just like kind of waiting to hear, you know, for the announcement with the firm, how they react and stuff. But for me, it did prove that it worked. It's not like I'm just sitting around doing nothing. I think, you know, trainees would be like, you're really serious about their training and they want to prepare. I mean, I want to prepare myself so that I'm ready for you to qualify. I can take my case and I can be able to manage it myself once I qualify. And it proved that it works because I got, I mean, it's so important I get clear instructions from my supervisor. So I was very grateful and we had a good time we we had um there was trust developed and um we had good conversation and even when i was on annually she was like contacting me and i was like really happily to to assist if i can and i was at i'll stay at home anyway so
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I think you make an interesting point there about trainees and managing that remotely. And actually, I've got some new trainees coming on the podcast in a few weeks, because I wanted to specifically find out about people who are just starting their training contracts remotely, how they're finding that. So that will be really interesting. I mean, I know there are firms, I think it's Tiger Law, Vanessa there, she says all of her staff work remotely, and she has got new trainees who have started and they've started remotely. And she absolutely believes that it work so I think it can work with the right systems in place but it'll be interesting to speak to these these people in a couple of weeks about how starting it has actually happened but also glad to hear your experience as well that you think it can work.
SPEAKER_01:I think it will be harder to like go into an area that you're completely new to without having first worked in the office I did think about you know what if there's another lockdown and I have to work from home and if I rotate to a different area I mean I'm... still relatively new to family, even though I did a lot of like, you know, side studies to help me with my work. But I still need that supervision. And I think I've only just started to get the hang of it. So it'll be interesting to see how training, and I think like different firms react and adapted to it differently because they can do conference call and all that. I've had a conference with counsel and client and they worked remotely. And you don't really have to like, you know, be in the same room to be able to coordinate and liaise with people. And I'm on the phone previously all the time anyway, and it's so easy to speak to people. Yes,
SPEAKER_00:yeah, I agree with you, definitely. So out of everything, when you look back, what would you say are your highs and lows of the whole lockdown process since March?
SPEAKER_01:Highs is probably... The first webinar that I got to do, it was so exciting. I mean, and I can't believe that two months on. And as my trainees still commented on the post on LinkedIn, I was like, oh my God, that hopefully I actually learned from that because I was like, that very nicely summarized my webinar. And yeah, just like doing some mentoring as well as a result of giving that webinar because like students would come to me just like, a message and I would respond I would really think and that really helped with my development as well if I'm considering like you know leadership and senior positions and that has really equipped me so I'm really grateful and for that opportunity and obviously to have met you to have you know open to all these opportunities and I was like I know I have said it before I can't thank you enough and thank you so much for being so supportive the lows following on it's probably like you know the unknown the uncertainties But I've learned to embrace it because those are out of my control. So rather than like, you know, worrying about, I might as well convey that energy to like, you know, thinking about, you know, find ways, you know, and sort of like having a backup plan. How am I going to deal with it? Even though I don't really know until that situation comes, but at least I can do what I can now to prepare myself, to equip myself so that, you know, when that opportunity does come and whatever situation or circumstance I found out myself and I can make most of that and you know and maybe even though it might not work out immediately, at least, you know, that we're open doors and I will still continue to learn from, you know, the experience. And it's really nice also to hear from other people and reach out. I'm sort of the people, like previously, I was just like relying on my own. I think it would be fine and stuff. But at the end of the day, I just feel, you know, we are people, we are made to like, you know, connect. And it's so nice that, you know, everyone just eventually, you know, kind of adapted and just make use of LinkedIn and use it as a channel to connect with people and reach out and there's so many different materials there and I follow so many people that have inspired me in so many different ways oh my god do you know the person I think it's Rob is it Robert Willett I can't remember but he was like a he did a Netflix thing called I'm Not Your Girl and then I think it's what is this name trying to think yeah Yeah. And guess what? He messaged me. I was like, is this a prank or something? Really? Wow. Yeah. And I was just like, and he was like, how long have I been following you? I was like, actually not that long. But I was thinking, like, because of all these useful webinars and chats that I've been in, I have maintained, like, you know, just become more optimistic about the future. And he was just saying, he was just saying, like, really inspiring stuff. And I was like, oh, yeah, bless him. much from my channel and stuff. And then I was just thinking, it's probably coming from you and, you know, Women in the Law and all these people that, you know, giving me different advice. And, you know, I still remember our last session with the fellow one, because it comes to you, I like that many people are returning to work now. And Cherie, was it Cherie? Cherie, maybe? Cherie, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I connected her with her and then she has given me so many advice as well. And I just like, you know, even though it's like, um, loads of uncertainties, I don't know where I'm going. Um, it has actually turned to like something positive is what I'm trying to say. I mean,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. Yeah. It's certainly, I mean, knowing you the few months that I've known you and the journey that you've been on, you've certainly, you know, you've gone out there and made the most of every possible opportunity for your own personal growth and development for the future of your career. And as you said, for your health as well, you know, going on those wellbeing and mental health sessions and things and trying to bear that in mind every day in your work, you know, that sort of skill is something you'll use for the rest of your career. So I think that's absolutely fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:I don't want to get to the point where or I'll eventually I mean this is just the start of my career and I don't want to like ruin my health I don't not I would not want to be burnt out even though previously I'm like at the verge of it because I was like so worried and I was like I don't know what to do but instead of panicking about it I take a more like calm approach now I try to like you know just lay down as much as there's so much work to do I'll try to like you know get one down you know get through my pile and I know that I kind of believe more in myself that I can do it I you know I wouldn't be in the situation now if had I not been able to do it in the first place to kind of like reassure myself kind of self-taught um I know you mentioned a lot of like meditation and all that and I'm trying to be relaxing and switching off and sometimes it's so hard to let go because I was like we like keeping us busy and we like to like you know do things with purpose I remember we had this conversation I was like it's true because even when I was doing yoga I worked towards qualifications like you know certificates that I can produces evidence to show like maybe to add on my cv or something because like people won't really believe you that's you know i think like until you have something to show so you know i've got this cpd on like you know the the things i've uh um i've uh studied like on the life coaching psychology and negotiation skills and i was like okay i need to do those but actually the lockdown has taught me to find a different ways of thinking about it not just working to to evidence to show you know to add to my CV but actually thinking you know how I can use this that actually it complements my work and I actually find me joy doing it rather than like kind of forcing myself working towards something and I was like it's actually retiring I was thinking about I was thinking about whilst I was paralegally and with the different firm I don't know why how crazy I am to decide to pick up piano again and I stopped playing it since school and I got to a grade seven but I always wanted to like finish grade eight and I was like okay I just like to figure it out after like how many years that's gone by and it was hard and it was like I didn't actually enjoy it that much because I have to like I have to paralegal um throughout the day I have to find time to like uh practice and and you have to practice and not just going for lesson so I was just like And I remember I actually listened to some of your broadcasts and you were saying, you know, lockdown so many people like learning new skills, learn great and stuff. Don't really force yourself. And I was like thinking also, I mean, people like do things because they enjoy doing. And I was like, don't ever force yourself to do something just because other people do it. It's so easy to compare ourselves with others. And I would try to like, you know, just to find things that I'm really passionate about and then to focus on that to be successful. But like doing multiple things, diverse diversify but then at the same time diversify it might help if one person
SPEAKER_00:I know I know you are I know I know you are passionate about many many things and I know we probably have it again where it you know it is fantastic to have loads of interest but as you know already you know you've got to take care of your health as well and sometimes you have to say right these interests for now maybe these ones next year and and and you know make time to sleep as well you know as I was I'm always telling you as
SPEAKER_01:well I think sleep is literally one of the advantages I forgot to mention because you know I have to get up so early and not to mention actually I don't know you know that's what brings alarm bells that I need to start looking after myself because could you imagine I was in the office at 6.30am and it took me so more than an hour to get to work and I was there at 6.30 and I signed it at that time just because there was so much work today and I was like I thought if I get in earlier before the phone rings and everything everyone else there I could get more done so but at the same time yeah I'm trying to look after myself really and that was just a one-off I was just
SPEAKER_00:I'm very glad to hear it very glad to hear it is there is there something you would say I mean we've covered so many so many different topics there but would you say there's anything you've learned that would be useful for other people to hear from about yourself or the legal profession? What do you think other people could benefit from?
SPEAKER_01:Because, you know, I was doing a lot of webinars, mainly on personal development to sort of help me to prepare myself for new qualified roles. And I've been focusing on the skills required by lawyers. And I really find that, you know, during this lockdown, what I've really learned is communication skills. The need to communicate, you know, with others to reach out when you need help. to know who you can speak to that may give you the advice that you need, to communicate when things might not go according to the way and that's not okay and that might bother you. You know, on top of lockdown, there's so many things already that concern us. So make your life easy for yourself. Just have the courage. It might take some time. I mean, I'm still learning and I sometimes don't know why I would have the courage and boldness to say something like this. But at the same time, if they have me adjustment clearly i have made a point so i tried to like you know not be too harsh on myself um i mean it's good to have expectation i think it's really important um to also like communicate you know as I said with others I lost the plot there
SPEAKER_00:I think you're absolutely right and it is one of the points that you made earlier about the connections and networking and yes communicating what you need and what you think would be useful for other people to learn and as you said sort of finding your voice and finding the bravery to do that even as a junior
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And to adding on, just do whatever, like, you know, think about yourself, like what do you feel comfortable doing? Not just because, you know, don't think about, you know, what do you need to do or how to please people. Um, it's very tiring. Um, I mean, you have to find a way of doing things and there's no one way of doing things. And, and I also think it also down to like, you know, whether you're given, you have that flexibility and, and whether you have that support from, from supervisor, um, and having a very good, um, relationship, especially those who are starting in the career to, to really, um, build on relationship with like colleagues, even not, uh, not just like, you know, partners and stuff, but like I've found, you know, I have, I have been become very close to like the legal secretary that work closely with the partner. And sometimes you find a lot of, uh, information, um, about the case through the legal secretary and where it might take on more dictation, uh, uh, dictated by the supervisor. And you learn so much from that. Just having a conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, just having a conversation. I like that.
SPEAKER_01:You know, don't be, um, uh, uh, just like leaving, you know, just don't just get your job done. Um, try to find passion and interest in whatever you do. Um, just like, you know, explore and find out more. I mean, I took the initiative to read more about family just because I didn't actually have the ticket as a module in my law school. I've never studied it, but I was just really lucky that I got involved in such interesting cases. I've been on meetings and my supervisor always saying, you know, this would be really helpful for me. And she would ask me to tag along and just get me involved. And recently I'm assisting with doing like an article for the firm so like just like try to find ways and the more involved you are the more enjoyable and the more you know experience and training and development you get from your training which I wish I had found out a bit earlier in my training contract because it's all coming to an end and I have no time to like catch up on that and I was unfortunately a B fellow so I just hope you know the journey for new incoming trainees will be much more smoother and yeah just more support available up there
SPEAKER_00:so
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_00:No, well, I personally think you've got a very bright future ahead of you. I love the way that you go after everything with such enthusiasm and the way that you are supporting others. So I will put a link in our podcast notes to your webinar recording. So people who are wanting to learn more about how to apply for training contracts can go and have a look at your webinar. I'll be happy to help. Oh, excellent. Thank you so much for coming to have a chat with me. Thank you.