What Marketing Leaders Want From PR Agencies

Information on NEW podcast website.

Transcript

Welcome And Setting The Stage

Peter Woolfolk 1:55

First of all, welcome to the podcast.

Jessica Howard 1:57

Thank you. Thanks for having me, Peter.

Peter Woolfolk 2:00

So first of all, what was the motivation for your organization having the survey? And after that, let's look and examine the eye-opening results that came back. So first of all, let's talk about why you decided to have this.

Jessica Howard 2:14

Sure. I think there's a lot of pressure on agencies these days. We've seen across the board marketing budgets get cut, which clearly affects agency partners many times. So we want to really better understand what

What Marketing Leaders Said

Speaker 2 2:31

are the pain points of our clients and how can we be better? You know, we pride ourselves on voluntary having personal relationships, good relationships with our clients and asking for feedback. But sometimes because you do have a good relationship, they may be not as open about areas where we can improve. And so we wanted to see as a whole, as an industry, what's happening with budgets, what's happening with AI, how are companies choosing an agency to work with? What's the most important things to them? And then what can we do about that? You know, so it's one thing to have the data and to understand what the problems are, but then how can we think through how to improve? And um so I do want to say we didn't survey our clients because some of these, I think you said they're eye-opening. Some of these results are eye-opening, but I think it's good for us to hold our own feet to the fire and get the truth and then figure out how we can be better partners.

Speaker 3:39

So with that understanding, now let's take a look at the uh the actual survey results. Why don't you let's say start at the beginning and uh let us know what it is you asked them and and what response that you get back from those questions?

ROI Metrics That Tell The Story

Speaker 2 3:54

Sure, sure. So I'll do kind of high level. We asked five questions, and and one of the main things I was interested in seeing, you know, we're all always out there trying to get new business, is when you're looking to hire an agency, what are you looking for? What's the most important thing to you? And this probably won't surprise any of your listeners, but 40% of the marketing leaders said they prioritize agencies with a proven track record and measurable results. So we can talk about ROI in um more detail later, but this really is something that's important, especially for PR professionals, because ROI is a tell as old as time, right? It's something that we're always trying to prove. So results were important, 40, 40%. And then on the flip side of that, what they found most frustrating, we asked, you know, what do you find most frustrating with your agencies? And 49% said high cost and unclear ROI. So this isn't painting the best picture because you have something that is very important to your clients, and then they're saying that they're not actually seeing agencies deliver on that. Then we asked about AI because um that's something that everyone's talking about now. I think, especially for the PR industry, is especially important. And um, more than one-third of marketing leaders said they were not competent in agency partners effectively or responsibly using AI. So we have some thoughts around that that we can get into a little bit more detail. And then we also asked, like, what's the future of your partnership with agencies? Are you bringing work in-house? Are you expanding? Are you looking for an integrate agency, a boutique agency? And that almost 45% of respondents said they expect to bring work in-house, and 31% plan to consolidate their agency rosters. So I think that's where we're seeing a lot of those budget um cuts. Then the final thing we asked them was around budgets. So in the coming few years, are you planning on increasing your budgets for agencies? Are they going to stay the same or are you gonna cut them? And the majority of leaders said they expect agency budgets to remain the same or decrease. So, you know, these findings probably don't sound super surprising, but it can feel a little bit daunting because they're not incredibly positive. But, you know, there there are definitely things that we can do and and steps that we can take to build a more successful relationship. And I think especially in PR, we are accustomed to change. You know, some people may say we thrive on it. So I really want to be careful about how we view these, not in such a negative light, but as just the relationships in the agency world with our marketing leaders, they're just evolving like everything else. And it's our job to stay on top of that and listen to what our clients are saying and then make sure we have solutions.

Speaker 6:59

Well, why don't we let's say take a look at um thing that that's very important is that the quality is most important to identified agency. I mean, you've got a list of uh what they look for uh and let's start at the top and go down to the bottom and from and take it from there.

Speaker 2 7:17

Sure, sure. So I you know, I think the main thing that stuck out to me with this was ROI. And, you know, as a PR professional over the past 20 years, there's a lot more pressure to have results and then be able to clearly communicate the value you're bringing to your client. And we see from the results that's something that as an industry they're saying we're not doing a great job with, and that's very concerning because that's our livelihood is showing what we deliver. And we know what PR can do, but I think sometimes we have a hard time communicating that. So I'll start from the beginning of thoughts on what I think we can do around ROI. And I know there's a lot of talk in the industry, probably a lot of your listeners may agree with the statement that impressions and AVA, AVE are outdated. I tend to agree somewhat with that. I think there's also a perception that some of these numbers are inflated, but I actually think that they undervalue our work if we're using just ABE and impressions as the value that we're bringing to the table. So, for example, at Dalton, we have a lot of B2B clients. So a a placement in a trade publication, it's not going to have huge reach numbers, but you are reaching a highly targeted and a highly engaged audience. And then just as important as that value that we bring in PR that a lot of our sister disciplines don't exactly bring, is that immediate authority. So, you know, if you're a featured by respected industry journalist, it's essentially a third-party endorsement. And, you know, that's an incredible value that the numbers don't tell that full story, right? So, you know, it pains me to say this a little bit, but I don't think that clients are ready for us to abandon those traditional metrics because the reality is that, you know, most of us are working with a a marketing team lead and then they have to report up to a CEO or a CFO or a COO, someone who wants to see numbers, someone who's taking our dashboard and our numbers and putting it into a bigger dashboard, right? If we can't provide numbers, PR is at risk of getting left out of the conversation altogether. And let's be honest, someone else could take part of our budget, right? So I think the the solution is two twofold. We do need to track the um traditional data, but we need to go beyond reach and AVE with additional data that can kind of tell that broader story. So we have to do that. We have to play within the box that we've that we've been given. But I also think we need to educate our clients on the long-term value of PR. And if I could add a third, I know I said two. I would say let's harness this moment of resurgence that PR is having because of what AI is bringing to the table. So so for instance, we're tracking additional pieces of data, you know, we'll show things like website traffic that's spyed because it's tied to coverage, you know, things like that. Time spent on a page, social sharing, share voice, message pull-through, the quality of the of the placement. We tier out our placements. Um, did you get in your target publication? Is it a tier one, tier two, tier three? Did you just have one quote or was an entire interview? You know, just pieces of data that can create a fuller picture. And then you have to balance that with the education that needs to happen early in the relationship with a client. You know, you don't want to just say what you need to say to get the business. You need to be transparent about how you're gonna show your your value. And I think we need to say that we are a long-term reputation play. And that piece of value that we bring to the to the brand is important. And I think sometimes we think when we talk about long-term value, it may sound like an excuse because a lot of people don't think that way, but it's important, and I think we need to say it with our chest, you know, like the value that we bring long-term to your reputation is important. So I think that's part of the education, and then you have to have the part of the education that goes beyond the placement. So great, we got an awesome media hit. We were showing you the numbers, we're showing you the value of it, we're talking about its long-term impact to your reputation, but it doesn't need to live just in that one incredible hit that we got. It needs to go on owned channels, it needs to go on social channels. Sometimes we forget about the sales team. The sales team loves credible third-party validation that they can share. Um, so we just need to make sure it doesn't live and and die with that one incredible hit and that we're showing our value and um amplifying it across all of our all of our channels.

Speaker 12:33

You know, let me just pick up on that because uh I'm looking here and you know, measurable results I think is important because I just said people like to say numbers. Uh but some things are difficult to actually quantify. Uh, you know, if uh let's say you got a spot uh on um maybe just on the radio, for instance, uh how many people heard that how much difficult one measures one thing, how many people listening to that something like that, uh how many people responded to what they saw on your uh online. So those kinds of things. So uh measuring differences all things aren't measured the same way. Whatever particular uh instrument you're using to get the information out, how are you measuring the results from that? And is that what they're looking for? Those kinds of things I think have to be individualized, I would think.

Speaker 2 13:28

I totally agree, and that's a very good point, Peter, is that um, and I think that's that education up front when you're talking to your clients, what what's important to them, you know, as much as we can, of course, we want to tie what we're doing in PR to their to their business goals, but what does success look like to them? What's important to the client? And then how do we tailor the numbers and the data that we're giving them to make sure that it makes sense for their business model, right? And there's a lot that we can do. It it can't be cookie cutter, it has to be a collaboration and a conversation with your client. And the word transparent is overused all the time, but it has to be transparent. You have to say what these numbers are really telling you and also what they're not telling you, and then fill in the bigger story. You know, I I have anecdotally clients all the time if we got a big media hit, especially once they shared or we shared across their social channels. Oh, I got um four meeting requests from someone once they saw the incredible work that we're doing. You know, we're careful not to call PR a legion machine, right? I wouldn't be careful with that. But we do see that the calls or the meetings that happen afterwards or getting a new client. So I think we just have to be very collaborative in the way that we talk to our clients about it and they have to give us feedback on what they're hearing on their end, because unless they're telling us we're not gonna know that they're getting that phone call or that LinkedIn request.

Speaker 15:00

I certainly agree with you. Now, the other thing that came up was uh about the frustration that uh professionals face with uh agencies. What are some of the issues there? Because one of the things that one of the top ones is the high cost uh and unclear return on investment. How do you address that?

Speaker 2 15:17

I get yeah, I think it's along the same kind of lines is that you have to be very clear up front. So this is this is what it's gonna cost, this is how much time it's gonna take us, and the this is the value that we're gonna see. And that has to come at the beginning. It can't come halfway through your relationship with your client. It can't come at a time when maybe they're not seeing the results that they want to see. You have to be very, very clear up front, and then you have to understand that what you set out in the beginning, especially if you're in a new relationship with a client, um, you could have had the best strategy possible. Everyone could be aligned and it might still not work. And it could be something that you're doing internally that you need to address. It could be something you need to address with your client. Perhaps they're not giving you the information that you need, or it could be something that's going on within their industry, right? So I have a lot of healthcare clients, and the way that I'm doing PR for a lot of my healthcare clients this year is totally different than last year because the industry has changed and the sentiment has changed. So you have to be able to, yes, of course you want a big strategy, you want a plan and you want to agree on it, but you have to be able to pivot if you're seeing that something's not working, and you have to be honest about it, and you have to figure out the best plan to move forward. So, you know, you don't want to dig your heels in just because you had a good strategy that everyone agrees with and not understand that things change. And that's part of the value that we bring in PR is that deep understanding of the industry and what's going on and how those macro influences directly affect the client. So you have to be able to be quick on your feet.

Speaker 17:12

Well, you know, I certainly agree with that uh, you know, people when you talk about a return on investment, what are the expectations of the client for for whatever the project is? And what are the considering the different tactics that they're using to achieve those goals, that uh something needs to be uh clear so that they can wrap their hands around it and they too can begin to understand what the measurements will be uh from your activities uh to to the results they're expecting.

Speaker 2 17:40

Absolutely. And sometimes this pains me to say, pending on what their business goals are, PR may not be the right thing for them in that specific moment. And you also have to be able to be honest and and say that, you know, we're an integrated agency, so it's a little easier for me. You know, we were a PR-only agency, that would be a very, very tough conversation to have. But I think it's important to look at their business as a whole and what they're trying to achieve. And if PR is not going to move the needle in the way that they're expecting, then you might need to pivot to to um another discipline.

Speaker 18:23

Well, the other thing that comes up too is now now how do you see agency relationships changing now over the next uh several years based on the information that you've gotten from the survey?

AI Guardrails Without Losing Craft

Speaker 2 18:33

Well, that was the the piece that was a little um concerning in as far as I think what do we have? 45% are planning to bring more work in-house. 30% said they're consolidating to fewer agencies. And then we asked about um project-based work versus retainer work, and 23% said they were planning on moving to more project-based work. So to me, this is more of a budget picture. And the next thing we asked them was actually about budget, which they said was either staying the same or they were decreasing. So I don't think it's necessarily um overall dissatisfaction with the work that agencies are doing. I think that it's a I think it's a budget. I think it's a budget question. But, you know, again, we have to work within the framework we've been given. And if we're gonna have smaller budgets, and then if you put that together with the first thing we talked about with ROI, now we're really feeling the pressure, right? So we got to do more with less, and that's just what we have to do. But I think what clients are looking for, because you know they are having to scale back either internally or with their partners, is that they need an actual partner. Because what we did find in the survey is that as an industry, we're doing the basics very well. We're being responsive, we're having good creative, innovative ideas, things that were important to um clients. We're doing some of the basics well. But I think what they really need is a thought partner, right? Because the marketing teams internally are getting cut and they don't have as many people to lean on and they have to show our value. So, you know, we can't be order takers, we have to be true thought partners that bring value to them, and we need to be collaborative. Um, because if they start seeing us as a vendor and they're cutting their vendors, then we're gonna get cut. And that's not where anyone wants to be. So we have to be that strategic thinker. We have to bring fresh new ideas that maybe because they're so close to it, they can't zoom out and see how to position something or a creative way to get a new media placement and then how to get that media placement new live. So we can't be order figures, we gotta be strategic, strategic partners.

Speaker 21:10

Well, pardon me, uh what I also hear is that the more computer use, uh computer information, uh other things like that, uh different programs that you can engage in to help uh collect information or or determine what how people are thinking, what are they looking for, those kinds of things, outreach programs that that people have uh to to partner with them, that they can see that you're using modern technology in a wide range uh wide variety of ways to help them achieve whatever goals that they have uh set for you.

Speaker 2 21:43

Right, right, right. And and I think that kind of takes us to what we also asked about, which was AI usage. And um we found that in our survey they're not particularly thrilled with how agencies are using it or their understanding of it. And it and I took that as just a little bit of of caution, not necessarily that companies are against agencies using tools. Because to your point, there's a lot of things that we can do to get more data to pull our people out of an admin mindset and put them more as that strategic thought leader partner to make us more efficient. We have more time to be creative and think through things and I I don't think that that even though the results seem a little bit negative, I don't think that companies are against it. I think that we just have to show that there's a human involved and that we're still coming up with ideas. We're still being strategic. But I think especially for PR, you know, we're seeing that a lot of LLMs are pulling through earned coverage or non-paid. 90% I believe of it, I believe is non-paid and non-paid. And um the majority of that is earned. So, you know, people are Googling things, yeah, but they're also going to Chat GPT, and we're seeing the fruits of our label, of our labor, because they are prioritizing credible news sources. So it's just another way to show our value and to be able to say that, yeah, so X publication typically gets pulled through these LLM searches, and we know that we have those publications that we can find, and you were in said publication. So not only are you getting found on Google, you're getting found the way that a lot of people are now searching. So, you know, you just have to balance that with the fact that there's obviously you don't want to use AI to write your if I see another AI written social post or PR pitch, I'm sure journalists are very tired of seeing AI written, uh actually of seeing the data, they are very tired of it. Um just looks the same. So we gotta figure out how to harness it without losing, you know, our craft and and who we are. And people are are they're hip to it. They know when you're using AI. So we actually have a VP of of AI at our agency, and he's making sure that we stay on top of things. He's also programming some proprietary pieces for us, but then he's also making sure that we have guidelines and guardrails and that we're very open with our clients for how we're using AI. They shouldn't have to be guessing. That's when they get suspicious, right? Like we have to be completely transparent with what we're doing, and then we also have to make sure we're following their guidelines. I have some clients that in our contract says we can't use AI at all. So everyone needs to be aware of if they don't, if an agency doesn't have their own guidelines, they certainly need to get them. And then we have to be aware of what our clients expect from us, and then we just have to tell them. We just have to tell them what we're doing. I think that sometimes we overcomplicate some of this.

Speaker 25:19

Well, let me just say this. I certainly use AI for writing some things for me, but what I do is once I get it, I read it and I said, does this sound like me? And then I don't make the changes that I think that I would make or how I would say things. What it does is just speeds up the process for me, but I don't accept the whatever's given to me and move forward. I want to read it to make sure I feel comfortable that uh the the folks can not that they want to determine that it is AR, and not that they don't look at the content and am I saying what uh what I mean to say uh through this particular vehicle.

Speaker 2 25:54

Right, right. I and and I think too when people are lying too relying too heavily on it, uh I mean we all use it. I think it's a great a great tool. But then you get this sea of sameness. You know, everyone's language sounds the same. And you know, we're writing bylines, even pieces of own content, things like that for um CEOs. And I don't want someone that I'm representing to sound like everybody else. You know, that's not that's that takes away from the brand recognition and building their executive profile. So, you know, there's definitely a danger of leaning too much into it because then no one's differentiated, which is the whole point of what we're of of what we're doing.

Speaker 26:41

Well, I certainly agree with you. And um uh, you know, I I just was excited when you brought this um survey to me because I don't recall having seen something like this before, and I certainly know we hadn't had it on the program, so I was very, very pleased that um you know we were able to get together on that. And I'm just wondering. Oh, absolutely. Hey, that that's what we're here for. We're here to give information to our listeners that perhaps they hadn't heard before, uh, or that they can actually use in their daily work. And I think something like this is going to be very, very valuable. But let me ask you now, do you have any closing remarks that you'd like to make that uh you think our listeners need to know about?

Speaker 2 27:20

I think that it just goes back to the fact of evolving and being comfortable with change. So, you know, I I feel like one thing, one major thing that an agency can bring to a company, to a client, is that we're on the cutting edge of what's going on. That's part of our job. That may not, you know, our clients may not have time to be completely up on everything and what's changing in the industry or even what's changing in their industry, but that's why they have us as a partner. And so when we see some of these results that may seem like they're a little bit negative, I don't think that's the case. It's just that these relationships are evolving, the world is changing, this is what happens, and we just have to stay on top of it and we have to make sure that we're bringing value in a way that's important to our clients, not how we see value, um, not what we think ROI is, but what's important to them. And that means we have to have an actual relationship with our clients. We have to be collaborative, we have to talk to them, we have to understand what they want, and then we need to provide that. You we need to bring counsel. Sometimes what they want is not what's best for their company, and we have to provide that counsel, but it starts with having a relationship where you can have these honest conversations. And if you don't have that, you're just gonna be a vendor. And when we're talking about these budget cuts and they want to cut a vendor, you're gonna get cut. You know, so I think some of this, as much as we say things are evolving and changing, some of it is old school PR and um making sure that you're listening to your clients and you have those, you have those relationships.

Speaker 29:02

Well, Jessica, let me say thank you so very, very much for uh bringing this uh survey to us. We certainly appreciate it. And let me say my guest today was Jessica Howard. She is the senior vice president of integrated communications with the Dalton Agency in Nashville Tennessee. I hope that you have gotten a bit of information that can benefit from uh,