Efficiency Over Hustle in the Entrepreneur's Journey with Libby Langley | EP202

Unlock the secrets to working less and earning more with our illuminating chat with Libby Langley, whose wisdom on the entrepreneurial journey shines in her book "Life in Business." In this engaging conversation, we unravel the tangled web of social media's impact on success perception and debate the real meaning of business accomplishment. Libby, a seasoned business coach and podcaster, shares her triumphs and trials, emphasizing the power of doing less to achieve more and offering actionable advice that solo entrepreneurs can put into practice immediately. Her philosophy on efficiency over volume, tailored to the individual's journey, promises a fresh perspective on personal and business growth that defies conventional hustle culture.

As Libby recounts her own journey which inspired her book "Life in Business: Easy Ways to Work Less, Earn More and Embrace True Happiness," we delve into the smart practicalities of entrepreneurship. From the art of outsourcing to the wisdom in seeking help, we dissect the financial acumen behind investing in specialists and the courage to set financial goals that truly resonate. The conversation also casts a spotlight on the pivotal role of tailored support, from selecting mentors to investing in programs that align with your goals. Join us for a candid exchange that not only demystifies the journey of business ownership but also equips listeners with the insights to pursue their definition of success with clarity and confidence.

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Transcript

Donna Eade: 0:51

You're listening to the Mindset and Action podcast, the place to be to grow and streamline your business. I'm your host, Donna Eade. Let's jump into the show ["The Mindset and Action Podcast"]. Sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward. Erica Taylor, Welcome back to the podcast. Everybody, I am so excited to have you here today because I have an absolutely awesome lady with me who is a podcaster herself. So we'll hear about that in a little bit. But today we are going to be talking about all sorts of things in business. We're going to be telling stories. So grab your cup of tea, sit down, relax for a little bit and join us for this conversation. Libby, welcome to the podcast, Thank you.

Donna Eade: 1:43

It's nice to be here. We spoke before Christmas and we were on a networking event that was absolutely bonkers. It was so quick, so fast-paced and I was just completely lost in it all, to be honest with you. But Libby stood out for me and I was like I need that woman on my podcast. I heard that she had her own podcast and I was like, yes, let's do it. So we had a conversation, we got on really well and here we are. So, libby, introduce yourself to my listeners, tell them a little bit of not too much, because we're going to go into your story a little bit more but a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do.

Libby Langley: 2:19

OK, I'm Libby Langley. I'm a business coach first and foremost, and I'm also a podcaster, as you say, and an author, so I like to feel like I've ticked all the boxes there.

Donna Eade: 2:31

Yes, I've still got the book to go, but it's there and hopefully this year I'm going to get it out. But yeah, I'm very excited and I'm excited to dive into your book too. So I have it here. I bought it just before Christmas I think it came just before Christmas and I'm halfway through, not because I'm a slow reader, because I tell you what, guys, if you're somebody who sort of dreads buying books because they're really heavy on words and the writing's really small and you think it's going to take you forever Libby's book is fantastic.

Donna Eade: 3:02

It is bite-sized chunks. Now I read it 10 minutes in the morning before I get out of bed, and the great thing about it is I think you could literally just open it up and read a couple of pages and you're still going to get something from it. It's not something you necessarily need to read in chronological order and I absolutely love it. So I know that once I've finished it, it's going to be a book that I'm just going to open up on a morning where I'm just feeling a bit blah, and I'm going to read something that says pull up your bootstraps and get on with it, and I think it's fantastic. So tell us a little bit more about the book and how that came to be.

Libby Langley: 3:38

OK, life in Business came out in February 2023. So at the time of recording, it's just coming up for a year, which is mad to think about. Well, I mean, I've always thought that I've had a book in me, right, and when I first started my business back in 2011, everybody I knew was writing a book to support their knowledge, to support what they knew. So it's always been the norm, a normal thing, I suppose, in my world, and it just was never the right time. I think I was on such. I've been on quite the business journey since 2011. And I think just something clicked in 2022 for me. So I launched my podcast and wrote the book towards the end of 2022. And I just knew that I was in the right place in my business and in my life to be able to pull something together that really helped people.

Libby Langley: 4:34

And, like you say, it's bite-sized lessons and anecdotes and bits of guidance and motivation for anybody in business. It's in very small businesses I mean, you can read it if you're in a corporate, for sure but it's aimed at business solo business owners really and my objective with it was just to make business a bit easier, because it's not easy and anybody who says it is. I don't know, it's probably lying, but it just. It isn't easy. There's always tough times and there's always downsides to it. But my real kind of raison d'etre, I guess, as a business coach, is to make everything easier, simpler and realize that you can do more without doing more. If that makes you you can achieve more without doing more, it's about just understanding what it is that you're doing and understanding how to run a business. So yeah, a lot of that comes across in the book, I know.

Donna Eade: 5:30

Yeah definitely, and I think that's a really important lesson to learn as a business owner, because I think we often overcomplicate it ourselves. We make it harder than it needs to be. No, it's not easy, but it doesn't need to be as hard as we make it out to be.

Libby Langley: 5:46

And that's true, and social media is a. I'm a big fan of social media. I've been in the online digital world since 2009. But it's terrible for making you feel like you need to do more, be bigger, be better. There's always people screaming at you that you need to do 10K months and achieve this goal and it's just like hang on a minute, but why? Where are you now? How hard do you want to work? Or how many hours do you want to work? How do you want your week to be structured? What would be a really good income for you? It's like OK, well, let's focus on that then. It doesn't matter what the Instagram gurus are telling you that you need to do, or matter what you should do. Yeah, do what you want to do.

Donna Eade: 6:28

Yeah, and that really leads us nicely into talking about your journey in business, because I feel like, from what I have read, that you kind of came out of corporate and kind of fell into that typical what you should be doing, built a fantastic business, built a team, we're growing. So tell us a little bit about that journey from leaving corporate and how you kind of built your business at the start there.

Libby Langley: 6:59

Yeah, I started, I worked in education, I worked in the public sector, but I am corporate, commercial rather than you know, kind of the fund itself.

Donna Eade: 7:10

I think it was a nickname that made me think corporate and keep the corporate thing is the ice cream that they used to call me.

Libby Langley: 7:18

Yeah, I mean that's scary. I haven't thought about that for ages. That's in the front, that's in the start of the book, isn't?

Donna Eade: 7:23

it yeah.

Libby Langley: 7:23

Wow, no, it's true, I think it's kind of quite hard-faced. Yeah, that's how you, that's how I thought you got ahead in life, right, because that's what we're kind of told to do. But it all came to a head. I was a commercial person in a funded world and there were lots of heads clashing. So I left my job and I was already a qualified tutor because I worked in education. So I'd got that and my MBA I was just finishing and my dissertation was in social media, marketing strategy and corporate communication, which is pretty sexy. And so I just thought do you know what? I can probably make some money teaching people how to use social media because I've been doing that in the college. So that's how I started.

Libby Langley: 8:05

And then I joined an entrepreneur's a UK-based entrepreneur's membership and the message from that it was absolutely invaluable the people that I met and the world that I moved in. But the message was often build a million-pound business, grow your team. Build a million-pound business, grow your team. So I mean I just did, right, that's just not the million pounds quite. But you know, I just did because that's what we were, that's all I knew, right, when you start a business, you don't know anything. You know how to do the? Do you know how to be the practitioner? You can be brilliant at that, but you don't know how to run a business.

Libby Langley: 8:44

And so I absorbed everything that I could, built this agency really agency model where we did a lot of social media management for people and there were five of us at its height with an office, you know, very well-branded and very kind of. I mean, it wasn't corporate because we all wore jeans and went to the pub and did more interesting stuff, but it was structured like a traditional business would be. So, you know, we worked kind of nine to five-ish, and except me, of course, does the 7.45 to 6.00 PM, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, you know. So I built this thing for me that was turning over an awful lot of money but was incredibly expensive to run because staff are expensive and offices are expensive, and so the social media management work was funding, was funding, all that really. But a lot of the work I was doing was coaching, strategy work, which I still do now, which is what I love, and that money was kind of like, hmm, hang on a minute.

Libby Langley: 9:49

A lot of this is going to other people. Something's not right here, so I went to a conference in the state social media marketing world, which I've been to eight times or something since 2013.

Donna Eade: 9:58

I am so jealous of that.

Libby Langley: 10:00

When I read that I was like ah, matthew, it's just been to social media. It's so normal for me. I've been to Sunday Ogre to cover. I've been to traffic and conversion over there. I've been to content marketing what was it called content marketing world, I think, in Cleveland, ohio. I've been to the state conference so many times that I don't even think how big a thing it is, because I first did it in 2013 and I'd only been in business what 14, 15 months then. So.

Libby Langley: 10:22

But I went there and I was talking to some friends of mine, business friends of mine out there and I just said you know, I'm not happy. I'm working so hard and I'm paying other people's wages and they are amazing staff and we've got some great clients, but this isn't what I wanted. So I went home and I made them all redundant and I gave up my office and I since then I think that was 2015, I think so since then nine years this year I've been working on my own, delivering strategy, doing coaching and, yeah, stopped doing the social media management a long time ago, thank God, because it's a totally different world now. That'd be much harder work and I haven't regretted it at all, but it's just such a massive decision to make when it's you on your own.

Libby Langley: 11:09

You know, made people redundant before because I'd awful, don't know, but maybe redundant before in jobs. You know a previous job but you've got an HR department, you've got policies and rules that everybody understands and it's not on you but when it's you and your own business, it's it. Yeah, it's personal, but I mean I'm still in touch with them all. I went to one of them wedding last summer. You know it's all in, it's kind of all called. Everybody understood but, yes, tough. So that's a big part of a big part of my journey and a massive learning for me.

Donna Eade: 11:41

Yeah, and it's a great learning for other people, which is why I wanted us to talk about it, because I think we do kind of fall into this trap and you are the second person in my world who I know who has built a team and then gone back to being just you, and I wanted to talk about what that looks like and how you kind of juggle it, because I think there is there's this kind of tipping point where you take on work and you and you're doing the work and you're enjoying the work, but then there's a point where there's no more hours in the day for you, but you've still got people asking, and how do you kind of manage that to keep the balance in your favour so you don't end up with the like I need, I need more people, I need more help? How do you kind of pull it back and keep it? Keep it where you're happy.

Libby Langley: 12:32

Sometimes very well and sometimes appalling, I have to say. December 23 and January 24 are extraordinarily busy months for me. So I'm my time isn't how I would ideally want it to be. But this is the thing about understanding how businesses work, because when you're in a period of growth, which I am at the moment, you put the hours in and then you have the rebalance if you like, and then you have another crazy period of growth. You know, I cannot work how I'm working for longer than a two or three month period because I will die.

Libby Langley: 13:09

This is just like so, accepting that, having work life balance and you know what I help everybody with working, working less than anymore. You know my book Life in Business is called Easy Ways to Work Less, earn More and Embrace Two Happiness. But it doesn't mean that you can do that all, you can do that all the time. So that's the first thing to kind of acknowledge and accept. And I do have support from people. I don't have a, I don't employ a team, but there are people that I work with. So, for example, my podcast, I could learn how to edit it. I had to say to myself you don't need this knowledge.

Libby Langley: 13:48

You can pay someone else to do it who can already do it, you will save all that time. And so that was a big that was quite another big thing for me, actually, because I like to do everything myself, I like to know it all and I like to be able to do it and then I can help other people and all that. But the same with the book was I had a book coach and she did all the design, she did all the tech stuff with Amazon, because, again, I could have learned it, but I had to say just pay someone else to do it. And now I have a VA who does some stuff for me and kind of like people who do bits and bobs, which I find a really helpful team because they're all specialists in the thing that they do. So I can just focus on supporting my clients and marketing myself.

Donna Eade: 14:36

Really they're kind of my two key jobs, yeah yeah, I think that's a really important thing to kind of to find in your business. Is that? Where do I need the help? What's going to be more beneficial to pay for rather than learn myself? Because you. Getting somebody else to edit your podcast means that you know the hour they spend doing. That would have been two hours that you would have spent doing it because you don't really know what you're doing.

Donna Eade: 15:06

Yeah, plus learning how to do it. So it's like and then you get that back to serve your clients, which you can charge more than you're paying the editor to edit your podcast. So there's a balance there to be found, and I think that's one of the things that I love about your book is it's all these little tips of you know how to sort of run your business and the things that you need to look at doing when you're just starting out and you don't know because there is no roadmap. It's like anything in life, I think, because we always say that about children Like, oh, you don't, they don't come with a manual, neither does business.

Donna Eade: 15:39

When you're starting a business of your own, it doesn't come with a step-by-step process because nobody's ever done it. The way you're going to do it, you know your own unique selling point, and the way you want to do it is going to be different to other people. And, yes, there are things that we need to learn and there are things that you kind of need to look at. Okay, I need to take some advice on this, but the core essence is it needs to be you and it needs to be what you're happy with. So I think it's really good to kind of see your journey and see how you've brought that back to a place of joy for yourself, rather than this overwhelm.

Libby Langley: 16:15

Well, and it's what you say is just so right. And this is kind of the biggest transformation that my clients get. Really it's they think they want one thing, because we all think that we want to grow, right, but what do you want to do? Well, I want to earn more money, I want to have a bigger business, and it's like, but by working together it's like what do you actually want? And there's I try and kind of destigmatize the fact that people might only want to earn 30 grand a year because you've got to, you've got to earn 100 grand, right, if you're not earning at least 100 grand.

Libby Langley: 16:49

Who even are you? Yeah?

Donna Eade: 16:50

do you even?

Libby Langley: 16:51

have a business, yeah, what kind of person are you? But no goals, no ambition. But if you want to earn 30 grand a year, amazing, fine, work out how to do it. If you want to earn 50 grand a year, that also is incredible. 60, 70, whatever it is, or 200, you know, I mean it doesn't. There's no right or wrong here, but there is definitely a stigma with wanting to have a business that perhaps doesn't turn over millions but gives you exactly the life and the income that you really, you really want. And I think that's really empowering to just say this is what I want and this is how I'm going to do it, and I don't care how batched crazy you all think I am, because it's making me happy.

Donna Eade: 17:34

Yeah, yeah, I think it's so important, so important, to know your true why for having your business and wanting to earn money. Because, yeah, you can say I want to grow, but why do you want to grow? If it's because you think it's going to give you more time back, because you're going to have more money so you can go on more holidays, it's probably not the actual way to do it. So I think it's really important when to kind of understand that, as you're listening to this. But also, you said you worked with a book coach. I have a coach my own that I do a group coaching with, and I think it's so important to have those kind of people in your corner.

Donna Eade: 18:16

And this is something that originally I wanted to talk to you about, and that was the self investment. When it comes to businesses, I think, especially when people are starting out in business, they just don't know where to put their money, they don't know who to trust, and there's things coming at you on social media left, right and centre. And I know when I started my business, you know, and I've been in and out of business since I was about 18 years old because I was a young mum and I was a single mum, so I was doing everything I could to try and work around my daughter. So I was in and out of different businesses when she was younger and when 2020 hit was when I decided to go back into business for myself. I mean, I decided in 2019 if it had been 2020, I probably wouldn't have.

Donna Eade: 19:12

But again, I thought I had more knowledge. I thought I had a better standpoint, because I run a photography business for 10 years. But I knew who I could trust in that industry. I knew who to put my money into and I learned what I needed to learn.

Donna Eade: 19:30

Coming into this business, I thought I needed one thing. I paid an awful lot of money for it. It didn't result in all of these you know, great testimonial, amazing experiences that everybody else had had with this particular person. I didn't get those results and then I felt like, oh, I've just wasted my money. I shouldn't have put it in there, I should have kept it in my pocket and I should have spent it somewhere else. But the thing is is I didn't know the where else to spend it. So if somebody is very young in their business, or even, you know, with business knowledge, but perhaps in a new industry, where would you suggest? When it self development is so important and I know you can talk about the importance of buying development for yourself when is it best to sort of start out? What would you suggest? As you know, before you do anything else, do this.

Libby Langley: 20:29

I mean the first. When you very first start a business, the thing to do is to find a decent accountant. You know which is not is not necessarily like the shiny route to go, but it having a grasp on those numbers and knowing that your tax return is going to be the most efficient and accurate as possible. Do that and you'll meet. You know you can get recommendations locally for people like that. Somebody always knows an accountant. If you like them, then that's fine. So that case that's kind of like the business structure side They'll help you with what kind of business setup you want.

Libby Langley: 21:05

You know if you want to be limited or sole trader or whatever, an accountant is a really good person to have on your team. But in terms of actually kind of right what we're doing, you know those sort of questions. Then somebody like a business coach I think is absolutely invaluable because you can buy courses that will teach you specific things and you might need those because you might want to learn some specific skills. But anybody who's trying to teach you a certain formula to achieve X will not be able because they're selling formula not be able to kind of give you the bespoke support that you need. And so my experience. I've bought, I don't know. I've probably spent 120 grand on my own professional development over the years. I'm sure more, maybe one day. I'll never will add it up.

Donna Eade: 21:55

No, don't do it.

Libby Langley: 21:56

I wonder how that never but it's the most value I've got from stuff has been when I've worked one to one or really a high touch with people, and that may be considerably more expensive, but the first time I worked with a coach one to one, she was in Australia actually I just found her online, but I kind of liked her stuff, you know, and felt she was good and we worked one to one for three months and it was two grand a month and I think this was 2015, 16,.

Libby Langley: 22:26

There's a lot of money back then. I mean, it's not an insignificant amount of money now, but it was a lot of money back then. But she helped me build something, to create something that brought me 20 grand back in those three months. So it was absolutely worth the investment. And I've invested 15 grand in a program on how to scale an online business. Oh my God, I'm so surprised to even talk about this. It was atrocious and I did end up getting some money back from it and I was quite mentally scarred and I think that that was interesting which house I was living in at the time. I think that that was 2020.

Libby Langley: 22:59

So that wasn't very long ago, and I'd already been in business for nine years by then. So these mistakes, learning points, learning opportunities still happen, but my advice would be to not make any quick decisions and to get to know the person, to talk to them in the messages whether it's a group program or whether it's one to one coaching and to get to know them and to find out if you like them or trust them and think about the way that you really want to learn or you want to get to support, and for me, it's absolutely about being able to talk to people. Absolutely, I would rather work one to one people or be in a program where there is a call where you can actually ask the questions Right. That really, really matters to me.

Libby Langley: 23:47

Self study I'll probably never do it, if I'm honest. Funny enough, I did a post on social media, on LinkedIn, this morning about this exact thing, so it's going to them, to. You know great at buying. Oh yeah, I'd like to learn how to do that. You buy the thing, you never do it, whereas if you'd spent possibly 10 times as much having proper coaching support, yes, you would actually get the stuff done. Therefore, whilst it's a bigger outlay, the return on investment is way higher because if you buy a course for 100 quid and never do it, you might as well put that money in the bin.

Donna Eade: 24:19

Yeah, yeah, it's so true, it's so true. And I know there are people out there like I'm somebody who really enjoys self study. I am a huge learner. I will buy courses, I will do them. I'm finding it harder and harder, I think, as I grow older, to actually find the time to do them, but I have in the past done them.

Donna Eade: 24:41

But with my program it's a done with you program, because I know how important that touchpoint with the tutor is and I feel like I just don't want to spend money on courses that don't involve contact with the person. Who's done it anymore? And that was the same with coaching. Like my coach said oh, I've got a group thing that I do on a Monday on Zoom. You can come and join that. It's like the cheapest thing I do you can get, and I was like it's not going to do me. I need more of you and I need it to be in person. That was my thing is like I want to work with a coach that I can be with in person and that I feel like I'm not inconveniencing you by asking a question because there are 20 other people in the room and so we do.

Libby Langley: 25:40

Investing bigger money won't always get you bigger results but, in investing in.

Libby Langley: 25:46

I spent 15 grand on a course, but investing in a person who you know can guide you is, 99% of the time, absolutely worth that and it will cost you more than buying lots of courses off the shelf but it will get you your results faster and it will pay dividends in what you can achieve with that and I think that that's kind of to answer the original question.

Libby Langley: 26:11

I think that's kind of the decision to make. It's sometimes a real stretch to invest in stuff, but if you're investing in the right stuff, it's absolutely worth it. Like my book coach, right. I mean I can't remember a couple of grand or something and the book wouldn't have come out without me doing that because I could have written it but the rest of it wouldn't have happened. So it makes things happen and if you really want these things to happen, getting someone who knows what they're doing to do, done with you, to talk it through to you know or to do it entirely themselves, is absolutely worth it. So buying this blueprint for $27 is a false economy. I think it's a false economy in business.

Donna Eade: 26:57

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. I completely agree, right. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we have come to the end of our conversation, which is terrible because I think we could probably talk for another hour quite easily. But I think we've had an important discussion there about growth in business and knowing that you know you don't have to be the biggest to be the best and that actually smaller is sometimes better. You know great things come in small packages and just sort of being conscious of where you're placing your money and do your research, and that's what I've kind of got out of today's conversation. So thank you for that, libby.

Donna Eade: 27:38

I have a little quick fire round that I like to do with my guests so that my audience can just get a little bit of background about the things that you like to do and where you're coming from. Think that people can learn a lot from these questions. So, if you're all right, I've got a couple of questions for you, ron, then I'm ready. Grace, so what is the book? Obviously you've written your own book, so you can't say your own book. So what is the book that has made the biggest impact on your life so far?

Libby Langley: 28:09

In terms of a business book, then it was absolutely delivering happiness by Tony Shay. I read it first of all, probably in about 2014. And it's about delivering customer service and being nice to people really essentially Not all I did.

Libby Langley: 28:27

Yeah, I know, but you know it's from Tony Shay set up oh my God, I've completely forgotten the name of the company. This is my age, right. He set up, no, it's not gonna come, and they ended up being bought out by Amazon. They did shoe delivery in the States and one thing that he did in the call center was spend as long as you like on the phone, and which is radical, right. Call center's like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang and it was all about customer service. And I was so impressed with this book and I don't know I should be on commission for it because I don't know how many people I've told over the years but I actually went to Zappos. I actually went to the Zappos headquarters in Vegas with somebody when I had a team one of the guys who worked with me and we went on a customer service course out there to try and kind of learn more about it. So yeah, delivering happiness by Tony Shay really good book that sounds fab.

Donna Eade: 29:20

Love that one. Okay, and what is your go-to snack when you're in a hurry?

Libby Langley: 29:24

I think if I am in a hurry, then I mean at home, I would just like quickly have some toast. It's not very exciting snack, is it? But it's like the quickest thing that you can just get out and eat, and you can even eat it while you're walking or whatever.

Donna Eade: 29:39

So yeah, the car job on your trousers, yeah.

Libby Langley: 29:43

I've been there. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I don't I. Mealtimes are like important for me. I know what I'm eating when I'm eating it, generally speaking, so yeah yeah, I like that.

Donna Eade: 29:55

I'm not a huge snacker, in all honesty. I prefer to eat my meals and then I'll probably have a little bit of chocolate after my dinner and then that's kind of it. But during the day, in between meals, I don't tend to. I'm not fussed. I used to be when I was younger. The older I get, the less I'm bothered about food.

Libby Langley: 30:14

No, I mean I don't. Yeah, I like a bag of crisps sometimes, but I don't. No, I love my breakfast. I'll have a bit of stuff for lunch and I'll have my tea, but I'm a big fan of using the slow cooker, so there's often something in the slow cooker. So even if you finish work late or you're really tired or something, it's like ta-da. Yeah, this morning me was super prepped, so that's good. Yeah, that's so good.

Donna Eade: 30:36

And also, I think that's probably why you you sit yourself up in in your third floor, isn't it? Cause you can't smell the kitchen or the that's.

Libby Langley: 30:44

The problem with my is that I'm on the same floor and it's just smell yeah no, I'm miles away from my kitchen, yeah.

Donna Eade: 30:52

And finally, what is your ultimate me time thing to do when you're not working and you step away? What is your favorite thing to go and do?

Libby Langley: 31:01

Do you know? I've got three things actually, if I'm allowed three, but I'll say them very quickly. One is I really like watching documentaries. I find it's the learning thing Any particular genre, not necessarily.

Libby Langley: 31:15

I've just watched the one about oh God, my name sorry, I can't remember his name. I've been watching about the preacher in Lagos I can't remember his name now, that's Tabalain Washington last night. But I really like just, I suppose, things about cults and about murderers and that kind of stuff, but honestly, about anything. We've got some great documentaries about sharks and all this kind of stuff, so I really like doing that. I also really like walking in the Pete district where we live, cause you get to switch off from everything. And I really like sleeping too. Big fan of sleeping, yeah me too Brilliant.

Donna Eade: 31:53

Well, I think you see even more things we have in common. I knew we were on the same wavelength, right, guys? Thank you for joining us for this conversation. Libby, where can people find you?

Libby Langley: 32:04

They can find me on LinkedIn. If they search for Libby Langley. They can find me on Instagram. I'm at Libby Langley. My website is libylangleycom. There's a theme there. My book is called Life in Business and is available on Amazon, on Kindle and in paperback, and my podcast is also called Life in Business and that's on anywhere any podcast app, any podcast app Brilliant, okay.

Donna Eade: 32:27

Well, there you go, guys. Go and follow Libby. I hope you gained something from today's conversation. I certainly did, and we will see you in the next one. Bye for now. ["love Youats" by Libby Langley plays].