Living Your Dreams Instead of Chasing Them with Josselyne Herman-Saccio | EP314

Have you ever felt trapped in an endless cycle of reaction, constantly putting out fires, managing an overflowing to-do list, and feeling perpetually behind? What if there was another way to live?

Master coach Jocelyn Herman-Saccio joins us to reveal the transformative power of being "unmessable with" a mindset and practice that allows you to shift from survival mode to creation mode at will. With over 47 years in the transformative space and experience coaching more than 200,000 people, Jocelyn brings profound wisdom to this conversation about designing a life driven by vision rather than circumstance.

The difference between reaction and creation is stark: one leads to burnout and overwhelm, the other to magic and fulfilment. Jocelyn breaks down how most of us get trapped in managing our lives instead of creating them, explaining that it's not external events that mess with us, but our beliefs about how things "should" be. Through powerful examples and practical strategies, she demonstrates how to dismantle limiting beliefs and design life from the future backward rather than from the present forward.

Perhaps most compelling is Jocelyn's personal journey, how she transformed from working 80 hours weekly while dreaming of Paris "someday" to actually living there half the year while working just 10-15 hours weekly and exponentially increasing her income. Her approach isn't about hustling harder but about strengthening your relationship with your word and creating from vision.

Whether you're an entrepreneur feeling imprisoned by your business or simply someone seeking more freedom and fulfilment, this episode offers concrete steps to become unmessable with. Discover how to craft daily practices that keep you grounded in vision, overcome imposter syndrome, and design a life where you're living your dreams rather than eternally chasing them.

Resources Mentioned:

• Josselyne’s website – BeUnmessableWith.com
• Follow Josselyne on Instagram
• Connect with Josselyne on LinkedIn
• Book Mentioned:Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
• Podcast Mentioned: Trading Stocks Made Easy by Tyrone Jackson

FREE 3 Part Audio - Access Here

www.donnaeade.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Being Unmessable With
• 8:48 Reaction Mode vs Creation Mode
• 15:21 Vision vs Goals: The Context Difference
• 23:38 Breaking Free from Management Mode
• 33:21 The Power of Your Word
• 40:08 Daily Practices for Vision-Led Living
• 45:41 Overcoming Limiting Beliefs and Fear

Transcript

Donna Eade: 0:33

You're listening to the Mindset in Action podcast, the place to be to grow and streamline your business. I'm your host, donna Eade. Let's jump into the show. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. I am so glad to have you here today because I have brought another fantastic guest for you, jocelyn Herman-Saccio. Welcome to the show, thank you. Thanks for having me. I am so excited for this conversation because I have been doing a lot of inner work over the last few years and it has dug up a lot of things, and I think that this episode is going to probably hit on a few of those. So I'm really the selfish. Reason for running this podcast is so that I get to learn all these good things from people, so I'm really, really happy to be having this conversation with you today.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 1:31

Excellent. I'm thrilled to be able to, you know, be here with you and your listeners and make whatever difference we can make today.

Donna Eade: 1:37

Okay, so first of all, before we jump into all the goodness, please do introduce yourself to the audience. Let us know a little bit about your background and what it is that you're up to at the moment.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 1:48

Sure. So I'm what they call a master coach, and basically anybody who's a master has spent at least 10,000 hours doing something right, and I've spent way more than that. It's almost 47 years I've been in the transformative space. So I coach people, I support them in architecting their vision, but my mission is to really empower people to live their dreams not chase them and develop what I call the ability to be unmessable with no matter what life throws at you, because life throws stuff at us. So how do you stay on track to fulfilling your vision when life is lifing and happening? And that's really what I'm about.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 2:29

So I've worked with over 200,000 people directly as a coach and course leader and I've developed curriculum. I in the old days was a pop singer and had a number one record, so I come from a different part of the business, so to speak, and then ended up starting an entertainment business to empower people in the entertainment business to fulfill their dreams. But it has become so much broader than that. It's not just entertainment. I mostly work with entrepreneurs, executives, you know people who are founders that are really out to increase their impact, their legacy, their productivity, their income, but not work more. Work less, impact more and make more.

Donna Eade: 3:12

So that's the game I play with them.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 3:14

Yes, it's a good game.

Donna Eade: 3:17

I think that I think what I'm seeing more and more coming out of the internet right now social media in particular is so many people stepping away from things that they've done. I've literally seen it in the last two or three days two or more YouTubers that I watch stepping away from what it is that they have been doing for so long and saying I need to get back to what I originally wanted to do, my dream. Like I got carried away with life and I've been led down this path and it's not fulfilling me. And in the entrepreneur space as well, with my, you know, friends and and colleagues in business that are just like I just need to reduce my hours or you know, this isn't what I wanted. I need to scale back, and this is sort of the the thing that I've been hearing more and more, and I think it's almost like that hustle bubble has finally burst?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 4:14

I mean, I hope so, because it's so not fulfilling and I and I work with highly effective people, but they are in reaction mode all day long and the work that I do. When I say being unmessable with it doesn't mean being tough or something. It's about being able to shift from reaction mode to creation mode on a dime, because that space of creation is magical. That space of creation is magical. You know there's no burnout, there's no overwhelm in that world. But in the world of reaction you're constantly dealing with the never ending to do list and you know things coming at you and got to put out fires and it very highly effective people are good at reacting, but that's a very different space than that space of vision and magic. You know really when you're creating.

Donna Eade: 4:59

Absolutely. Let's jump into this theme, your anthem, your cry of being unmessable with. Talk to us about that, and how can someone start cultivating that mindset?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 5:14

Well, it definitely starts with vision, and you'd be shocked how many people I say, okay, what's your vision? And they give me a goal. And a goal is not a vision. A goal is something that's going to happen at some point in time, whatever whether it's in a year or six months or six years, and that's different. That's content of your life. Vision is more of a linguistic, contextual space. So the difference between context and content I like to do this with people, just so it becomes like super, super simple is, you know, for those of you that are listening, you won't see this, but if you're watching the podcast, I'm holding up what you would call is my pointer finger, and if I say, in the context of body part, what is this? It's pretty. I mean, you can just answer. I'm not trying to trick you. What is this in the context of body part? What is this? It's pretty, I mean, you can just answer, I'm not trying to trick you. What is this in the context of body part? It's a finger, exactly.

Donna Eade: 6:03

Ding, ding, ding Right.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 6:04

But now I'm not going to change anything in reality. I'm holding up the same thing, but I'm going to say, okay, now in the context of number, what is it? It's one, it's one and you don't have to think about that, you don't have to figure it out, it shows up for you as a one. And if I say, okay, now in the context of direction, what is it? Up Up, so you have the same exact reality, but the context shapes how you view reality. And the context is linguistic in nature. It's made up of language, so it's alterable, it's transformable at any given moment.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 6:40

So what I work on with people is not just the content, which is important you have to have goals and all those things but what context are you functioning from? And most people function from that world of reaction and survival as a default context. So being unmessable with is really about having the context of your life be your vision, be what you're out to actually fulfill on in life, not what you're out to accomplish. That's very different, because you know people. You could add up your accomplishments and it's staggering how much you've accomplished but you're not fulfilled. That's the difference. So it's like what are you fulfilling on and when you're fulfilling on a vision, it's a completely different quality of life. It's like you get fulfillment right now, not someday when you hit that goal. So it's like a backwards way of living, but in a good way.

Donna Eade: 7:30

Oh, I love that. That sounds so much better.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 7:34

Yes, it is. It just is, I mean like in terms of better or worse. It's more alive, it's more magical, it's more vibrant, it's more you can breathe better in the world of vision. It's like, if you think of it directionally, when you're in that world of survival and reaction and shoulds and shouldn'ts and goods and bads and rights and wrongs and the whole world that we live in, right I on the news, it's not far away, right, or go to your dinner table, it's right there. That's a very down and in world. So it's like suffocating, it's constraining, but vision and creation is up and out. You're like really directionally in a different space which gives you more room to be so having our vision is really important to being unmessable with.

Donna Eade: 8:22

But unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum, and I happened to catch the beginning, or I was just checking out your YouTube channel before we jumped on here um, and I saw that you did an episode on being disappointed. Yes, that was just recently. Yeah, so we don't live in a vacuum. There are people around us that are asking things of us, you know, demanding things of us.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 8:52

Or promising things of us and then not delivering right.

Donna Eade: 8:55

Promising exactly, Promising and not delivering right. Promising, exactly. So what do we do to kind of protect ourselves in that situation, so that we maintain that unmessable attitude?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 9:05

Well, it's never what happens that messes with you. I know that sounds kind of counterintuitive, but if somebody says they're going to meet you at seven and then they are late, that meeting you at seven and coming at 730 didn't mess with you. It's that you thought they should be there at seven. The should is what messes with you. So what I do with people is first we distinguish the vision so that you have some place to be unmessable with. What are you being unmessable with about is your vision. So we create the vision and then we start to distinguish and dismantle all the things that mess with you. So again, when people say X and do Y, it isn't what they did or didn't do that messes with you. It's that you expected them to do X and that's what. What ends up messing with us is they should have known or they should have called or they should have.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 9:58

Shoulds and shouldn'ts are very big, you know, messable with moment makers, money messes with people, sleep messes with people, all sorts of wellbeing stuff messes with people. But shoulds, shouldn'ts, things that are right, wrong, good, bad, all of that stuff is not real. It's in our view of life. So it's like we have a view that something's good, but to somebody else it could be a view that it's bad. So when you start arguing for what's right or wrong, or true or false, you end up in that world of reaction, which is what's happening on the planet.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 10:33

I mean, all you have to do is, you know, go anywhere and have a conversation about anything, and it's all about who's right, wrong. You know, let me prove to you why your view is idiotic and mine is the right view. But if you can actually deal with what's real instead of what's true, you know, reality is sort of view neutral. You know, this thing that I was holding up is neutral to the view of it, but your view is shaped by your shoulds, your shouldn'ts and the context. So that's why the context is so decisive, and most people don't pay attention to the context. They pay attention to the content. If I just had more money, or if I just had, you know, less work, or if I just had the guy or the girl or whatever you're going after, and then you get that thing, and then you might be happy for like a second, but the next thing becomes the game as opposed to fulfilling on a space or context which is much more experiential in life.

Donna Eade: 11:34

Yeah, that kind of makes me think of all the entrepreneurs that are sort of out there grinding and going for this goal Like I need to get 10K a month and then as soon as they get that, they don't even stop and celebrate. It's like OK, now I need a 15. Now I need a 20. Now, I need, and it's just on, and, on, and on and you're chasing a goal that never ends.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 11:54

It's. It's like um, they call uh. You know I call it the next carrot syndrome, because when you train donkeys you have to put a stick on their head with a carrot. They like carrots, but you stick the carrot far enough that they can never get it. So they're basically they're not too bright donkeys, so they're basically like chasing the carrot constantly and that that's how you get donkeys to move, because they keep going towards this carrot that they're never going to get to.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 12:19

And if you think about it as human beings, we're like the donkeys and we're going for that someday goal, like well, someday when this happens, someday, when that and that's not a real day Som related to reality, which most people are not, because they think their view is reality and they'll argue for their view. They'll even put on a suicide vest and go into a crowded group of people in honor of their view, and whether or not you have like a real suicide vest, or you go into your family and start being at war with your father law, it's the same kind of thing, because you're so right about your view. But reality is not right or wrong. It's just what it is, you know. It's just whatever that thing was I was holding up. There's no is finger or is one. There's just how it shows up for you, based on the context. That's why the context is so critical.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 13:17

Oh my goodness, wonderful, I know right, it's like a rabbit hole we could go down. Yeah, absolutely, but that's the first step. So you first get the vision. Then you start to see what are the things that mess with you and it could be situations, but it's always what you make it mean. It's always your view of what's happening that messes with you. So you dismantle that and then I support people to design a hack so they see they're in the world of reaction and they hack it. They literally hack their brain and reroute their brain to go to that space of vision so that they can be acting from their vision versus driven from a reason or a consideration or a fear or a reaction.

Donna Eade: 13:55

Yeah, I think so many of us live in and I think we all do like by default we're reactionary rather than sort of sitting in that, in that place and taking a breath and actually sort of just giving it a minute, just giving it a minute and actually looking from what you're creating, because most people don't think what am I creating now?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 14:18

They think what do I have to do to survive this moment? You know what do I have to do to get through this week. What do I have to do to get through this stock market? Get whatever it is, you know, get through the next X years or world of reacting, surviving, making things happen. So if you think about it, from what you were talking about before, about entrepreneurs who are thinking about, you know I'm working so hard, but you know I don't have time, or you know I need to maybe pivot.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 14:50

What happens for people is they start something, let's say a company, I mean. But it could be a relationship, it could be anything Right. But you know, when you first get into a relationship it's so delicious and juicy and then after a few months it's like it ships over to this, not from something from vision and magic and creation, but over to something that you need to manage. So you know, you start your company and it's exciting and it's new and you're just creating and you're making mistakes, but you don't even care, you're just enlivened by success. Failure it doesn't matter.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 15:19

You're building something. Then you build it and it shifts over from the world of creation to the world of management. Now you got to manage it. Now you got to have that company survive. You got to meet payroll, you got to have that relationship. You know, like now you're talking about who's going to Costco, not like what are your dreams? You know you're no longer in the conversations that elicit vision, you're in conversations that manage stuff. And that's what happens for creators and founders is they become imprisoned by their very creation. At one point it was magical, it was a creation, but now it's's a thing, and when something turns into a thing, you gotta manage it, you gotta fix it, you gotta deal with it, you've gotta improve it.

Donna Eade: 16:06

You know, do your 10k a month, do your 15k a month, you get you're chasing the carrot yeah, it's so true and it's so funny, because the next thing I wanted to talk about is this created life versus a default life, and I almost feel like that's the creative part for me. That's the created, that's the created life, and then we get into the management, which I see is like the default that we're all kind of stuck in. So can you talk to us about how we can start to intentionally design a business and a life that, even when we feel stuck and overwhelmed, is more in that created life than the default?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 16:42

It's the key question. I mean because that's what I do with my entrepreneurs that I work with for the year long mastermind that I do called the mastery program, because we're mastering performance, creation and freedom. So that's for entrepreneurs who want to minimally double their business but work less. So it really is like freedom. And how do you do that? How do you? And it is a design issue Most people don't design what they're doing. They build, but not from a design. So I work with people to craft their vision, craft what is the big game they're really out to accomplish with that company, let's just say with the company, but it could be with a relationship, it could be with their wellbeing. You know, it's whatever you want to work on. It's really not only limited to business.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 17:25

But then we do a year backwards plan. So we start a year out and we go okay, what do you want January or April of whatever year to look like? Now we're going to go backwards. Most people plan from here forward and they get limited in their thinking because they're thinking from what they have, what they have access to, what they currently are doing, revenue wise, all that. So I go no, no, no, we're going to erase all that. We're starting from nothing. And if you could create anything, what would you create? X month, a year from now? So then we start there and start to backwards plan. Okay, so if you were going to and I'll just use a metric because it's just easier to use If you want to do a million dollars in revenue by April of 2026, let's say so, what will have had to happen by February of 2026 for a million to be a done deal?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 18:18

So they're not coming from the 5,000 they have now or whatever it is, they're coming from the million. Well, I will have had to do 800,000 by February, definitely for the million to be guaranteed. Okay, good, so now we're going to stand in February. We've done $800,000. Now let's go back to December 1st. What will have had to happen revenue-wise? And this is like a simple kind of math thing, right? So you're just doing math at this point and it doesn't have to be equally distributed between the 12 months, because you know it's just.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 18:46

You get momentum or whatever you're planning for, and then, when you get close enough to the present, like about a month out, you start creating an action plan for what would you have to do to have that milestone that you created for a month from now be a done deal. What are the actions that are going to have that happen? And what happens when you do the planning from the future backwards is you start to illuminate what's missing either in team members in your company or in systems and structures Like we don't even have a billing system in our. You know like, ok, we better build that structures. Like we don't even have a billing system in our you know like okay, we better build that you know. So you start to see what you need to implement and put in place, or people that you need to hire or find or partner with to be able to fulfill on what you're fulfilling on.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 19:32

And then the big key is that because people get messable with executing their plan, they come up with a plan and then they don't do it. That's one of the biggest things that messes with people. Yeah, totally, and especially if they don't have the plan with someone else, because they're more likely to do it if they promise someone else than if they promise themselves. So most of the work I do with people, you know, which falls more into the mindset world, is their relationship to their word, because people have a weak relationship to their word. They justify, they excuse their word. They justify, they excuse themselves out, they reason, they go.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 20:03

Well, you know, I didn't really sleep last night so I'm not going to go to the gym today. Maybe I'll go to my. And you know, they just kind of convince themselves that there's no impact of that, but I get people to get. There's a huge impact of that because if you say X and do Y, you just became less powerful. So if you say X and do X and say X and do X and say X and do X, then your word starts to have some weight in the universe. And you know I have a tattoo. It says abracadabra, which sounds like magic, but what it literally means in ancient Aramaic is with my word, I create.

Donna Eade: 20:37

Oh, wow.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 20:38

So if your word is is weak, your creation is going to be weak. So I work with people on how to have the best opportunity set to fulfill what they're creating. So they can say, double my business in a year, and it happens. Or they could say, intimacy in my marriage, and it happens, because their word has weight. It isn't what they give their word to, it's that the word itself is magic.

Donna Eade: 21:02

That is magic. That is magic. I completely see it when I look at people around me, when I look at myself, and I am so one of those people. If I've promised somebody else, I'm doing something. I'm there and I'm doing it. I literally have a weight trainer. I go to her house on a Monday night to do weights with her and she asked me to do two other sessions a week without her and because I'm going to see her on Monday, I do it. But if it was just me, I know myself.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 21:28

I wouldn't do it.

Donna Eade: 21:29

I'd make all those excuses, just like you said Well, that's what people do.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 21:33

And it's interesting because the biggest thing I deal with my entrepreneurs in the second year of the program is that they've developed now this ability and this muscle with their word, but their teams don't have it. So, here they are in this world of performance, but if you're working with people who are not in that game, what you're going to get is a lot of explanations and reasons and justifications for why things aren't happening, and that's a different kind of water to swim in.

Donna Eade: 21:59

It is, it is. So let's talk about practices and routines, because I think a lot of the time when we're talking about this stuff, it's part of a practice. You have to keep going and do something again and again and again to embed it, and it is more I. I think habits are a funny one for me because I feel like I can do something, the the 21 times or the the 60 times, however many you want to say it takes to do it, and I will still do. Default having peanut butter on toast for my lunch because I like it and it's easy.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 22:37

It's just you know it takes. I know my trainer's always think you're not eating enough protein. Dah, dah, dah dah, unless I design a system to deliver protein to me. I mean literally, unless I design the time to prep my meals and then I have to put in my calendar eat, because I'll forget. I love what I do. I'm just caught up in the whatever. So I have to schedule my showers and I have to schedule my eating and I have to schedule boiling six eggs because otherwise they won't be there.

Donna Eade: 23:02

Yeah exactly that, exactly that. So can you share with us a practice or a routine that helps you stay grounded in what matters most to you?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 23:11

Well, the first thing, again starting with vision, is when you wake up in the morning. If you notice you don't wake up usually inspired and alive, and mostly you wake up into that default world of, oh, I didn't get enough sleep, or oh, I have so much to do today, or let me just hit snooze for a little bit. So the default world is always there, ready to suck you in, right? So one thing I find really useful in the morning is to create what I'm creating that day, so to create a context for the day. So it could be maybe you're creating the context of happiness that day, or you're creating the concept of peace of mind, or whatever it is that you're creating. I then come up with promises that will fulfill on it.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 23:55

I have a whole. I have like two books that I've written about promises. I have something called the promise game, which is like a five day game you can play. It's free on my website and I have a daily practices to be on. I have a lot of free stuff on the website to get people muscle, but promising is a very powerful tool.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 24:11

First of all, it's your word, right? So if you're creating happiness, one promise could be I promise to make three people laugh today. So now you have this kind of thing. That's there because you created it and it just kind of guides you through the day. It has you interacting differently with people. You know, maybe at Starbucks you're not just head down ordering your latte, you're interacting with the person to have them smile or laugh, and so it gives you a different quality of the day.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 24:39

So I find that's a good way to start practicing creating and see what it looks like when you say something and then manifest it as a function of your actions. It's not like, you know, make a vision board and then just hope it's. You know you have to take action to fulfill on it. But it does give you different actions. If you create, you know if my, if my creation is, you know, peace of mind for the day, I might take three breaks and meditate for five minutes that I normally wouldn't do, or take a walk by the water. If you have the ability to do that, that for me. That really calms me and, you know, gives me peace from an external perspective. So so those are some practices that people could start right away from an external perspective.

Donna Eade: 25:20

So so those are some practices that people could start right away. Yeah, yeah, I love that, and water is one of mine, and unfortunately I don't live near the sea. It's about two hours away from me, but that is my favorite place. We do have a lake nearby, but what I found is I'm always going at the wrong time and the gnats and the midges are out and I'm just like that.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 25:44

That is not happy for me. I'm with you. I'd rather watch a video of water than be by a lake with gnats.

Donna Eade: 25:47

Okay absolutely, absolutely, yeah, oh dear. But, yeah, water does calm me too. It's one of my favorites, um. So, moving on, what advice could you give to to women who feel like their voice and their message are being watered down because they're worried about what others might think? Because I think that's a big one. Now, majority of my listeners are women and I think one of the things that I sort of promote and talk about a lot is using podcasting to amplify your message and your voice. Talk about a lot is using podcasting to amplify your message and your voice, but I think a lot of the times, women are generally you know, just from the gender gap pushed down and like belittled and you know you're not important. What you've got to say isn't as important as what I've got to say, and things like that. So how can we get past that in our own minds and speak our truth?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 26:40

get past that in our own minds and speak our truth. Well, it's interesting because the majority of my clients are women also. It's about a 70-30 split. You know, I do have male clients and I find it happens with men too. It just doesn't seem as prevalent because they're not as expressive about it. But you know, women will talk about it, but it is, men are just as worried about what people think. Uh, surprisingly to some women.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 27:04

Um, and it really is one of those uh, things that mess with all people is looking good and avoiding looking bad, and that also has to do with that whole world of reaction. It's like you have so many views about yourself. See, whatever it is that messes with you is something that you're not complete with yourself. If you're complete with something, then it doesn't mess with you, like if you don't have any doubt about your own intelligence. If somebody calls you stupid, it doesn't bother you. It's like somebody calling you an eggplant. It's like what are you talking about? I'm not an eggplant, I'm not. Like, why would I even be upset about that? It's like you know, okay, you know whatever you say. So you're not hookable by those things that are complete for you. So the work that I would do with people that have that kind of trigger is to get them complete about not only who they are, what they're capable of, but sort of the views they've constructed over the years about themselves. Now it might have been originated by somebody saying to them oh, you're so, you know, you're so sweet. And now they're trapped in being sweet and they can't be assertive because they're in this prison called being sweet and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a prison nonetheless. So I break people out of prison. I mean that's basically necessarily a bad thing, but it is a prison nonetheless. So I break people out of prison. I mean I, that's basically what I do. I break people out of the prison of their limiting beliefs, of their views, of the things that they think are true that aren't, and I can share from my own life.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 28:32

When I was four, I loved singing. I was like all about singing. And when I was five I asked my father how come he stopped painting? Because he used to paint all the time. And I noticed he stopped painting. He goes. Well, you can't do your art as your career. Now, he wasn't trying to like kill my dream, but he just that's how it was for him. You can't do your art as your career, so he's in advertising, Right? So I go. Ok, five years old, I go. I see you can't do your art as your career. I got it, no problem. Pivot, I'm not going to be a singer, I'll be a lawyer or I'll be a business person.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 29:03

And I lived my life like it was true that you couldn't do your art as your career.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 29:08

So when you think something's true, you're going to find evidence for it everywhere, right?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 29:12

So then flash forward.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 29:13

I was in my very early 20s. I was in a transformative workshop myself and transformative workshop myself, and I had this insight like what if that's not true? What if that is something I made up and believed in the infinite wisdom of five and then ended up proving over and over again, with whatever evidence I gathered. And it loosened its grip on me. I'm telling you, Donna, within three months I had a record deal. After getting rid of that limiting belief, I was able to fulfill my lifetime dream that I never thought would happen within three months, and then that record went number one. We had the number one record in the country, knocked Whitney Houston out of the number one spot with I will always love you. I mean, it was a total dream come true, and that's where I became committed to empowering other people to live their dreams, because I was like, if that can happen in three months for me by disappearing one crappy limiting belief, if I could do this for people and unleash them, set them free to fulfill their dreams, that's a life worth living.

Donna Eade: 30:09

Oh it sounds amazing. It sounds amazing and what an achievement to not quickly use.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 30:17

No, but my point is all these people that you're talking about that feel stifled or put down or whatever it's like, yeah, but what's putting them down or what's keeping them down are mostly limiting beliefs, views, shoulds, good, bad, right, wrong, it's not. It's not right to speak out in a meeting, or it's not good or it's not acceptable. All that stuff is language. It's not good or it's not acceptable. All that stuff is language. It's not reality, you know. So how do you craft a relationship to reality through context? That's going to give you power. That's going to give you the ability to say what you need to say to impact who you want to impact. So and I also have because imposter syndrome is a big thing for people, you know, which is kind of what you're pointing to I have a whole imposter syndrome process that I give people again free on my website so that if people are dealing with that, just do this process and it will bust that up for you.

Donna Eade: 31:09

Brilliant, brilliant. Well, make sure that the website is linked in the show notes for sure, guys, because it sounds like that is a website you spend ages on just going through all the free stuff.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 31:19

I know it's true. It's like you know, you have dozens of free things before you ever have to spend a dollar to work with me. And you know, not everybody has a dollar, so it's not a problem. I mean, I want people to have these tools and there's other ways to work with me, obviously on a deeper, more intimate level. But gift from Joss J-O-S-S is the part of the site, that's all the freebies. Gift from Joss period, brilliant, fantastic.

Donna Eade: 31:45

So we'll make sure that's linked below. So let's finish on, before we jump into all my fun questions, my little quick fire round. Let's finish on how being unmessable with has impacted the way you run your business and show up in your life, because I think we've obviously seen where it started with that, that career that you didn't think you could have, but now, on a day-to-day basis, here and now, how does it? How does it show up for you?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 32:15

Well, it shows up every day. So I mean, I'll just take a lifelong dream of mine which was to live in Paris and I always said, oh, someday I'm just take a lifelong dream of mine which was to live in Paris and I always said, oh, someday I'm going to move to Paris, someday, like wherever. Someday was it was like maybe when I retire blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I worked for 30 years for a seminar company called Landmark, which I highly recommend, if nobody's done the Landmark Forum. It's transformative. And I was one of the 20 people or so that led that program around the world and I helped develop the advanced course and I was accountable for the advanced course and trained the leaders for the. I mean, like it was my life for like 30 years. I really lived and ate and breathed it, but I was working 70 to 80 hours a week, Right.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 32:54

So when I uh was decided to leave because I was like you know, it's time for a new chapter in my life, I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to stop working 80 hours a week and I'm going to really look at okay, what do I want to create with my family? My daughter was coming home from at that time, rehab and I wanted to be available for her and all of that. My parents were getting older, so I gave my notice a year's notice. I gave my notice a year's notice, I trained my replacement and all of that and then I completed with honor and then I took like a few months off and I was just kind of like, okay, now, what? Now, what am I going to do, Right, and what am I going to create? So I created a course, because that's what I do. I design curriculum and I'm leading the course.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 33:36

It's called the foundation for being unmessable with and as I'm leading one of the sessions. I'm leading one of the sessions. I'm. I'm telling people you have someday dreams. It's not a real day, blah, blah, blah. You know, like everything I said earlier. And then I realized that I have a someday dream. You know, like it was like a V8 moment, I was like oh my God, what a blind spot here.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 33:55

I am, you, you, you. And then I was like, oh my God, the fingers at me and I got off the Zoom call and I said to my husband okay, are we going to really do this or are we just going to talk about it Like it's a someday thing for the rest of our lives? He goes no, we should do it. I go, okay, when let's just set a date, I don't care if it's five years from now, whatever. We set a date for a long weekend, like a week later, and we met these people who had an apartment there that they were moving out of. So we ended up getting that lease and we've been, you know, basically spending almost half the year there every year now since then. And that took a lot. Because, you know, first of all, of course, I have doubts and I go into the world of reaction like, oh my God, what are we doing? And you know the kids are still kind of young, you know they're over 18. But, like you know my parents and all the reasons and I would call my husband. I said, ok, we got to talk about these reasons. He's like, yeah, ok, we can talk about the reasons, but what are we creating? It really was, and my parents were like, go, what are you waiting for us to die? Or something like go, you know. And it was kind of the truth in a weird way, right. So we've been able to keep fulfilling that now.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 35:10

So I went from working like 80 hours a week to maybe 30 to 40 hours a week, right. But in that first year of business, I was like, okay, this and I quadrupled my income I mean more, you know. And I was like, okay, how do I get this down? Like, if I'm going to create what I want, how many hours do I really want to work a week? And I was like I want to work like 10 to 15 hours a week and I want to spend the rest of the time, you know, being doing going to the gym or yoga, or being with my family or traveling or whatever. You know I was creating all this stuff, right.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 35:39

So I designed the next year like what that would have to look like, and it ended up reformatting everything I was doing, and I now work between 10 and 15 hours a week and have exponentially increased my income at the so, really like even more than five X, because I'm working less, yeah, so who knows, 10 X. I haven't done the math, but I said, okay, this everything I was doing to give people access to fulfilling their dreams in the entertainment business. Now I was like, okay, that's it. You know, I'm going to give entrepreneurs the chance to have freedom and fulfillment and ease and not have to work harder, but work smarter and create an environment of performance. And my life is so easy. It's a joke. It's a joke. I mean I wake up, I have to pinch myself. I'm like I have half the time in New York, then I go to Paris, then I, you know, have my clients. I mean I love the people that I work with. They're fulfilling on dreams they've had forever and that's like I get to have that result.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 36:46

That all these people are producing the results that they've always wanted writing books and, you know, unbelievable, it's just magic yeah, yeah, I can imagine being being the person that's behind that, watching that.

Donna Eade: 36:58

It's like, um, when I see people that I've taught to do a podcast and they're going out, and anytime I see them put it on social media, I'm like, yeah, you go girl exactly like second hand joy it's a.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 37:11

It's a perfect example, because you know, like I still get messable with, I just get out of it quickly because I wanted to start a podcast for a long time but I didn't know anything. I didn't even know what, uh, whatever, the, the rss, what. I didn't know anything. I was like I have no idea, I didn't. I never listened to a podcast, I didn't know what it was and I I finally, oh, I have all these reasons not to do it. And then I said, what am I doing? I just got to practice what I teach. So I just set a date and then backwards planned it and when I launched my podcast, um, in June of last year, I had 40 episodes banked. I have the episodes banked through the end of the year at this point. You know I have so many episodes and I just keep recording them. And we hit number 32 on the Apple podcast charts in education and self development.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 37:53

A few months ago not on the charts right now, but but we did hit 32. So I was like we're top 2% in the world. I was like how is this possible? It's because I just fulfilled on what I designed, and that's the point. If you design it, you can fulfill on it. If you don't design it by default, you're just going to deal with what life is throwing at you?

Donna Eade: 38:13

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I love that so good, so good. So my next question is one that I ask all of my guests and because this podcast is called Mindset in Action, this is our mindset one, but this is usually quite a difficult one for people who work in the mindset space to answer, because they go into teaching mode instead of reflecting mode. So I'm going to ask you to try and step into reflecting mode.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 38:41

Okay, you got it.

Donna Eade: 38:42

Answer what has been the biggest mindset block that you've had to overcome?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 38:49

Well, I would say it's what I shared with you about you can't do your art as your career. Like actually, that disappearing as a truth unlocked everything in my life and it became like a new context for me. So I got to fulfill on my dream as a child of being a singer. But I also get to do my art as my career. Now my art is coaching, so I get to fulfill on that and it's just, it's overarching. So that really had a huge impact and it's impacted even my father, who was the one who said it when I was five. He's 91 and he's a painter. Now that's what he does. We just built a studio for him and he's a painter. Now that's what he does. We just built a studio for him and he's painting daily and has had shows and you know. So it's a it's. It bleeds over to other people too.

Donna Eade: 39:39

I love that, I love that and and, like you said, art is subjective, so it's one of those things that art, just like the finger, it's, yeah, it's what you put on it. So some people will say coaching's not art, that's, it's coaching. You know it's not, but to me, anything that you are skilled at, that like it absolutely thrills me to watch somebody in their element doing their thing, because it is, it's beautiful to watch, it's magic, and it is even like the olympics right.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 40:06

I mean you watch somebody who's an athlete and it's like, or a you know a musician or I mean it's magical. I mean I know that now I'm gonna out myself as a Barry Manilow fan, but I went to see Barry Manilow last week and to me I could cry he's such a master at what he does and he's been doing for 50 years. So, yeah, he is a master. But that's why I call my work the art of being unmessable with. It really is, it's my art.

Donna Eade: 40:33

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So we're going to move on to my quick fire round, which is where we get to know just a little bit of the inside, what goes on inside Joss's head. So what is a podcast that you're loving right now?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 40:47

Well, I really like Tyrone Jackson's Trading Stocks Made Easy. I love stocks and I actually work with Tyrone as a coach. He coaches me in stock trading and I love his podcast, so that's one Brilliant.

Donna Eade: 41:02

And what is the book that has made the biggest impact on your life so far?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 41:08

Well, when I was young I would say it was the Great Gatsby. I really loved that book. It was my favorite book, from the imagery and all that. But I haven't read the Great Gatsby in like 35 years, so I'd say recently in terms of a business book is Dan Martell's Buy Back your Time. That has had a huge impact on me and I've taken a lot of what he does and adapted it for what I do. So I'm a big Dan Martell fan. Not everything he says, because he's a little bro kind of marketing kind of you know, but the thinking behind it I love.

Donna Eade: 41:38

Brilliant, okay. Well, guys, I will make sure both those books are linked in my guest's bookshelf as normal, so do go and check those out. And then, what's your go-to snack if you're in a hurry, hard-boiled eggs. As in a hurry, hard boiled eggs as long as you've boiled them, yes exactly as long as you scheduled that boil I boiled last night.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 41:59

I boiled six. You know I do six at a time, but honestly I should do 12. That's how much I eat them, yeah, yeah.

Donna Eade: 42:05

I, my other half, came home with 12 eggs from the grocery store. Um, yes, at the weekend and I looked at them and I was like what, what? What's going on? Why have you only bought 20? Said they didn't have 15. I said so why didn't you buy 24? Like I literally have two eggs and two egg whites for breakfast every morning, this isn't gonna last me a week eggs are the best, even though they're so expensive.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 42:27

Now I have to say and everybody's talking about the egg prices there's still a deal, you know, if you think about it. And they're my favorite. I love eggs.

Donna Eade: 42:34

Brilliant. And then what is your ultimate me time thing to do?

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 42:40

Walking by the water. I would say I really love it in New York City. I live right by the East River so I can walk out my door and walk down the water, and I'm moving to New Jersey in a month, which I can't believe. I'm saying that. So if anybody from Jersey is listening, I'm no offense, but I never thought I would. But it really made sense because I want an environment that really nurtures me, and this building has a pool and a sauna and a steam and it's right on the water. So again, and my parents when I spend time in the Hamptons, because I live there too. So again, and my parents when I spend time in the Hamptons, because I live there too, right by the water. And then in Paris I'm right by the Seine, and so I think water is sort of the like you, my, my go-to.

Donna Eade: 43:19

I love that. I love that. Well, I I went to Paris last year. It was on my vision board and I made it happen and I absolutely love the place, and so next time you're, next time you're over uh, give me a bell.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 43:32

I'll get on the.

Donna Eade: 43:33

Eurostar.

Josselyne Herman-Saccio: 43:34

I'll be there next week, so you know you let me know the next time you want to come, because I I'm there a lot. I love it, it's, it's it. I breathe better there. Yeah, I have since I was 16.

Donna Eade: 43:46

I want to give a big, big thank you to Jocelyn for coming on the podcast. We had some technical difficulties on my end with the internet connection and Jocelyn was an absolute trooper. We didn't actually get to do our outro because of that. So I wanted to just say thank you so much, jocelyn, for coming on the show. I think it was a really powerful conversation, really interesting. I think it was a really powerful conversation, really interesting, and I loved hearing about your life and your dreams and how you've made them come true and how you have used your system of being unmessable with throughout your life to bring those visions to fruition and for sharing with us.

Donna Eade: 44:27

So, as Jocelyn said, she has a website. It's beunmessablewithcom. You can head over there. There is a freebies tab where all of those things that she was talking about today will be available for you. You can also join her on Instagram. She is instagramcom. Forward slash beunmessablewith. You can find her there. She is also on LinkedIn, jocelyn Herman Satchio. You can find her there as well, and I will have all of those links in the show notes for you. So head over to DonnaEcom forward slash blog and check out this episode 314 to find all of the show notes for this episode. Thanks again, jocelyn, for coming on the show. Thank you guys for listening and I'll see you next week.

Donna Eade: 45:14

Bye for now.