The Digital Apprenticeship Podcast

The TileCloud Story with Drew Mansur

December 08, 2020 Season 1 Episode 19
The Digital Apprenticeship Podcast
The TileCloud Story with Drew Mansur
Show Notes Transcript

In todays show I’m excited to be chatting with Drew Mansur, co-founder of TileCloud. Since it’s launch in 2017, TileCloud has completely transformed the online tile shopping experience. Today, Drew shares:

  • His journey to TileCloud, including experience as a Trade Coordinator, Project Manager and Director of RedRock Tiling
  • The key elements behind TileCloud's rapid growth and success along with rebranding, customer feedback and understanding the buyer journey
  • Drews advice for small businesses utilising social media marketing


BROWSE TILES AND RENOVATION INSPIRATION AT TILECLOUD: Website: www.tilecloud.com.au Instagram: www.instagram.com/tilecloud

WANT TO CONNECT WITH ME? Website: www.thedigitalapprenticeship.com.au Instagram: www.instagram.com/thedigitalapprenticeship

WANT MORE? Download my free ebook, The Digital Marketing Cheat Sheet for tradies here http://www.thedigitalapprenticeship.com.au/ebook

SHOW NOTES (including a blog post of this episode and all links and resources) can be found here https://www.thedigitalapprenticeship.com.au/19

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Stephanie Trinder:

In todays show I’m excited to be chatting with Drew Mansur, co-founder of TileCloud.

Since it’s launch in 2017, TileCloud has completely transformed the online tile shopping experience.

Today, Drew shares his journey to disrupting the tile industry as well as the key elements to the companies rapid growth and success.

Hi, Drew, welcome to the show. I'm really glad you're here because it seems like everyone is talking about TileCloud at the moment, and for all the right reasons. So for our listeners who are new to TileCloud, can you tell us a little bit about how it works?

Drew Mansur:

Yeah, for sure. So TileCloud is an online tile store and we specialize in tiles for bathroom renovations.

Stephanie Trinder:

Awesome. And what makes you guys radically different from your competitors?

Drew Mansur:

We're an online tile store, that's probably the key difference. And yeah, we service customers all over Australia. And the way it works is, basically our customers jump online and they usually order little samples, which are the size of a little coffee coaster, get a little piece of the tiles that you're interested in, check them out in your own home, and then they can go ahead and place their order, and then we deliver it to your door.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah, it's awesome. I absolutely love the concept, being in that renovation phase myself. And I just find everything that TileCloud does just reduces the friction and makes buying tiles and shopping tiles so easy. So yeah, I love it, I love what you guys have created. And I think it would be really helpful for our listeners if you shed some light on your background and where you started from and the roles that led you to where you are today.

Drew Mansur:

Yeah, definitely. So I went to uni and did construction and property management at UNSW here in Sydney. And about halfway through my degree I started a cadetship, which is like a building apprenticeship for construction management with a builder here in Sydney called A W Edwards Construction. They do bigger projects, they build hospitals and libraries and railway stations and stuff. And so I was on the builder side of the fence, obviously as a very junior guy. And you start out getting coffees for everyone, and then you move on to doing safety documentation, and then eventually you get to manage some trades. My very first trade that I managed was a line marking package for a line marking contractor to draw the lines in the car park of a hospital, which I thought was pretty cool.

Drew Mansur:

And then from there as you learn a bit more and develop your skills, you get some more juicy packages to look after and some more involved trades. But yeah, I worked for those guys for a few years, and then I decided that I wanted to get a little bit more involved. Obviously Edwards is quite a big company doing those size of projects and the projects are really long as well, one/two year long projects. And I thought I needed a little bit faster pace. And so then I went and worked in a shop fitting company called Crosbie, and that was like retail shop fitting, a lot of hospitality stuff. And because it was a much smaller company, I was able to take a step up in responsibility and ownership of the stuff that I was looking after. And so then I was able to run some little jobs myself.

Drew Mansur:

And just got thrown into the deep end and very quickly learnt how to swim and managing all sorts of trades and getting projects over the line. And it was a lot of smaller projects, it'll literally be like fit out of a restaurant. But you still have quite a few different trades that have to go in there. You've got all your services trades and then all your finishing trades.

Stephanie Trinder:

Of course, yeah.

Drew Mansur:

So there's plenty of coordination and organization to go into it in a usually a pretty short timeframe, 10/12 week time windows usually. And so it's pretty frantic. And that was a really good exercise in learning what's possible. The shop fitting guys are always pushing the envelope of speed and it was a fun thing. And then I was like, oh, okay, now I've learned a bit of this and I felt like I had found my feet. I didn't know it all, but I felt like I knew a bit. And then I was thinking about what I wanted to do for myself and it didn't make sense at the time to become a builder or a shop fitter. I thought it was too competitive. I just thought there was just so many people out there. And the company that I was working for would constantly seem like a race to the bottom in pricing, in shop fitting just generally.

Drew Mansur:

The one thing that did stand out to me though was, there was a lot of ... How do you describe? They didn't have a lot of loyalty to tiling contractors. There never seemed to be any good tiling contractors that we could work with. And then I was thinking back to when I used to work at Edwards and it was kind of the same thing, that nobody has a favorite tiler really. It's kind of like, you pick the best out of an ordinary bunch and then you make do.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah. Right.

Drew Mansur:

But it seemed like there was a bit of an opportunity there to just provide a better service really. And so I reached out to one of the guys that I used to work with at Edwards and talked to him a bit about the idea. And he's like, "Yeah, I think that sounds like a really good idea. I wouldn't mind getting involved in that as well." And so together we started a commercial tiling company.

Stephanie Trinder:

There you go.

Drew Mansur:

Yeah. Which was a little bit different, but I guess it was just leveraging all the skills that we had together. And yeah, we actually still have that company today. It's called Red Rock Tiling and we just do commercial projects and that's ticking away in the background. We've had that for about six or seven years now.

Stephanie Trinder:

That's awesome. So you had no previous tiling experience other than the knowledge that the tilers you had experienced or worked with before, there was just no loyalty to those businesses. And so you decided to fill a gap in the market in that sense?

Drew Mansur:

Yeah. I mean, the lack of loyalty was as a result of them not providing a good service.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah.

Drew Mansur:

If someone was doing a great job, then you're going to want to keep using them. But it was kind of, we were always just bouncing around between different guys and going, ah, these guys, ah, those guys. And so it felt like if there was a really good offering, then that you'd be able to stick with them. And so we tried to create that good offering.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah, absolutely. And that was through hiring the right people to work within your company. What did that look like?

Drew Mansur:

From day one, when we first started, we were like, I don't know, what jobs can we do? We'll just do anything. And so it was the smallest jobs, tile repairs and little bits and pieces of, fix somebody else's mistake or this guy has gone away, can't get him to finish it, come in and urgently do this. We'd just take anything we could get. And we had worked with some labor crews through our previous roles and were able to work together with those guys and use them for the actual install component and manage them. Manage the crew and organize all of the extra stuff that goes into making tiling happen, the materials and all the details, documentation, safety, paperwork, and everything to work on a commercial site. And yeah, we were able to win some jobs and get our foot in the door with a couple of different people. And then just start quoting and quoting and quoting for the better jobs that were coming up.

Drew Mansur:

And for us at the start, it was really a function of doing those bigger jobs. They were there, but we couldn't finance them. The way that it works in tiling for the most part is, you need to go buy all the tiles and then you need to do the install, and you need to pay the boys to do the work. And so you've outlaid all of your costs on the job. And then usually you get paid on 30 days terms or even longer, at the end of the project. And so financing it was really the barrier to growth for us. And so we had to just start small and just do baby steps and a little bit bigger project, a little bit bigger project as the cashflow allowed, to where we were able to move our way up over a couple of years into those bigger projects, the five and six figure contract jobs.

Stephanie Trinder:

That's awesome. I love that. I love that process. And I imagine as well, a big part of that would have been creating a company culture or a standard for your employees too. Was that a part of the process?

Drew Mansur:

Yeah, for sure. When we were using the guys who were essentially like labor crews, that weren't full-time for us, we found that we didn't have that level of control and that we weren't able to get what we wanted out of the guys day in and day out, because it was a bit of a revolving door of which crews were available to us and which ones were tied up working for other people. And so we had the realization that we really needed to have our own team on the books, of full-time guys. And so we set about building that team. And then as we built, in tiling, you don't just have one guy, you need to have like three guys as a team. And then the next jump would be jump up to six guys.

Drew Mansur:

And then you jump in teams so that you have a little group of guys to work together. Well, that's how it worked for us anyway. And so, added a team and then added another team and then built up like that. So that as we were training the guys and teaching them how we liked to work and the standards that we operate to, we were seeing the benefits of that because they were staying with us. Rather than teaching guys that then go and work for someone else and then maybe they come back for a bit. Yeah, so we moved away from the hire model to full-time guys.

Stephanie Trinder:

What was that light bulb moment for you when you decided to start TileCloud?

Drew Mansur:

The start of TileCloud was, I think I was listening to a podcast actually about mattress sales over in the US. This was pre-Koala and Sleeping Duck in Australia. It was around that same time those guys were starting, but they definitely weren't household names. And it was talking about that same business model and how it was playing out in the US. So there's a couple of big companies out there, Casper and Tuft & Needle, and a few other ones that had paved the way for mattress sales. And there was just this really interesting insight that although mattress sales is presumably the ultimate thing that you need to touch and feel before you make a purchase, you got to lay on that thing. What they were finding was just the exact opposite, which is that convenience trumps that preconceived notion.

Drew Mansur:

And you can, in fact, if you're able to de-risk it with a free trial or something like that, where the customer goes, okay, well, if it's not good, I'll kick it back. Then people were feeling confident to take the convenient option of buying it online, having it show up and running with it. And so it was like, is there any crossover there to what we're doing? And just thinking about how that would work. And it's like, okay, obviously this is a pretty tactile industry. You want to touch and feel your tiles, and it's a relatively major decision, a long-term decision, you don't stick them down and then just change them next week. And so you've got to be sure about it. And so yeah, I guess it started the wheels turning about what an online tile store might look like and what additional services would need to go in and around it to make it something that people felt confident to actually purchase from.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah. Wow. It seems counterintuitive, doesn't it? That people would be happy to purchase a mattress or happy to purchase a tile without having seen it and felt it and experienced it. And it's not something that you would naturally think would be a feasible business to then go forward and sell something online without someone having that experience first, of the product. So I think that's a huge realization and obviously something that other people hadn't realized before either. And it just takes listening to a podcast or thinking differently and thinking outside of the box and looking to a completely different industry to then bring that across and disrupt the tile industry with that same idea. I think that's awesome.

Stephanie Trinder:

So had you thought about selling tiles then previously? Because you were installing tiles and you had a tile company, were you also supplying the tiles and supplying the design at that stage? How did that crossover happen?

Drew Mansur:

Yeah. I would say 90% of the contracts that we were doing commercially were supply and install contracts. But the way that they work is, there's an architect involved or a designer. And as they've obviously specified, what product they want to be used on the project. And so it was more just about going to whatever supplier that was, purchasing the tiles and then installing them as specified. And I think that while we weren't really driving that process, we were a part of the process. And so we could see how it all worked, where the tiles come from, and there's a lot of tile retailers which might be shops that you can see in and around ... we're based in Sydney, so in and around Sydney.

Drew Mansur:

But then there's this whole other category, which is the wholesalers that service the retailers. And a lot of time we were having products that were specified from the wholesalers. And so starting to create the relationships with that level of the industry and meeting those characters and who they are and what they're doing to get a bit of a feel for where the tiles are actually coming from. Yeah, it just helped paint a picture of all of the industry, I suppose.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah. Right. Cool. So I didn't actually realize, but it looks like TileCloud was founded in 2017, which was only three years ago.

Drew Mansur:

Yeah.

Stephanie Trinder:

Wow, you guys have experienced some serious rapid growth. What has been some of the key elements, do you think, behind that growth? Because you guys are, like I said, I see you everywhere, I see TileCloud everywhere. So what has been behind that?

Drew Mansur:

I would say there's a bunch of stuff. And I think that it's almost like no one major thing has been a groundbreaking catalyst. I think it's been just a lot of little incremental pieces of progress, but I don't know. There's a few things that stand out to me. When we first launched the website, we thought we knew what customers wanted to look at and how we wanted the information presented and how we thought they wanted the information presented. And really, for the first 12 months, we didn't sell a lot of tiles. We were so unknown that we just weren't having a lot of traffic onto our website in the first instance. But even more than that, the traffic that was going there, we didn't really have a compelling offering to be honest. The way that our brand was positioned was high-end. People were coming to the website and they were thinking that the tiles were very expensive, without actually looking at the price of the tiles.

Drew Mansur:

And so we realized that the graphic design that we were using, the colors, the way that we had laid out the website and everything was giving this appearance that we were expensive and high-end, which we thought we just made it look beautiful. And it did. But the unfortunate consequence of that was, when people looked at that they'd go, oh, that must be expensive, without even looking at the price. And so all of a sudden, you're sending the wrong message. And so we had to modify how our brand was coming across and being received to get that balance right so that the brand perception was in line with our price point.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah.

Drew Mansur:

And so yeah, that was definitely a big piece. And I think it took us a full year to figure that out. And yeah, it's hard to even pinpoint the exact tweaks that we did. But our logo is the same and our colors are the same and a lot of people think that that's your brand. But it's actually the whole website experience of how you go through the website, how you navigate, how everything's spaced and laid out and all that kind of stuff. It's a really holistic picture that you have to paint of what the brand feel is. And yeah, it's just little tweaks here and there that have helped us get that aligned with where we want it to be.

Stephanie Trinder:

Branding is such a powerful thing, and I truly believe that it can really make or break a business. And it's so great to hear that you guys actually listened and obviously were looking for feedback or looking for indicators of what was working and what wasn't working and why it wasn't working. What were some of the pieces of information that you were looking to for that?

Drew Mansur:

We just called customers. We just called them. It's the best way. And you can learn as much, maybe even more, from potential customers that don't end up purchasing with you than guys that do purchase. Because at the end of the day, you're going to get ... usually you're going to get pretty good feedback from people that do decide to purchase with you. And they're like, oh, I like this and I like that. It's good to know what elements of your offering resonated with them, and if you can see some trends there, you might want to emphasize those elements. But trying to do that actual feedback loop with customers that come into your ecosystem, interact with the brand a little bit and then decide not to purchase.

Drew Mansur:

And so in our case, maybe customers that have bought a sample box but then gone on to buy their tiles somewhere else. And trying to talk to them, get a little bit of feedback of what was their purchasing decision and how did it all play out is invaluable. That's where we learn exactly what we're not doing or what went wrong basically. Because we're over here, sitting here thinking that we've got this great offering, our prices are really great value for the product that we're selling, our service is convenient, and why wouldn't you buy from us? We think we've got just the most amazing thing, because we know every bit of it. But if we're not conveying that message properly to the customer, then it's not their fault that they purchase somewhere else. We haven't given them the full story. And so it's about making sure that we are getting the right points across so that people know what we know about how great of an offering we've got.

Stephanie Trinder:

I love that, because as a marketer, we often look at the data. And for someone who's new to the world of digital marketing on YouTube business, that can be daunting and overwhelming. But it also goes to show that you can make assumptions about your consumer, and you can assume that they know the things about your company that you know to be true. But that's often not the case, and the data can only tell you so much. It really does make such a world of difference when you can talk to your client directly or talk to the consumer directly. And being a small business, you're agile. So you do have the capacity to have those one-on-one conversations and then make real change as a result of that conversation. So I think that's fantastic. Is that something that you still do?

Drew:

Yeah. There's no finish line to feedback. Actually, one other important thing that I didn't mention in our journey of getting to TileCloud was that, obviously with the commercial install business, my other business partner, Mark and I, we had good experience talking to builders, that B2B business set up. We were very comfortable with how that all worked. And nine times out of 10, you're talking to other males as the person that's making the purchasing decision or signing the contract in that case.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah.

Drew Mansur:

And so we were very comfortable with that. And as we started the other business, TileCloud, we realized we don't have any experience selling B2C, direct to customers. And that a lot of these purchasing decisions are being made by females. And that it's an absolute oversight if you think that you can talk in the same way to those two different groups of people. You just can't. And so right from the start, as part of the DNA of the brand, we knew that we needed to be talking effectively to women. And that's why another partner in our business is Florence, who you see a little bit around the place, who also happens to be my sister-in-law.

Drew Mansur:

Her background was in, she studied design at COFA and then went into ceramics and had a fun early career in tableware. So it's like crockery and that kind of stuff, an Australian ceramics manufacturer. And so almost by coincidence, she's an absolute expert in clay and firing and the whole glazing process and all that stuff, which is obviously exactly the same as over in tiling. And so when we started talking about the idea, she was also keen on it and was able to help us bring that other perspective to our brand offering. And really was instrumental in shaping the way that the brand looks and appeals to women.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah, that's awesome. It sounds like you all bring a certain strength to the table and it has created this really well rounded business, and you all play to your strengths within the company. Now you're across Instagram and Pinterest and you have an email strategy and a beautiful website. Where did you start? And how did you know where to be?

Drew Mansur:

We originally started with ... we were like, okay, obviously with an online business you need some digital marketing. And we originally started with an agency. And when you go to an agency and you're like, oh, we're doing an e-commerce business, they'll be like, okay, you need this, this, this, and this. And they have a bit of a default of what you need so to speak. And so we just went along with that because we didn't know any different. And then over the years, as we have learned more and more about what's working and what levers we're pulling in the business that actually are impactful, a year or two in, we actually moved away from agency structure and now just do everything in-house so that we have full control over what's happening.

Drew Mansur:

Yeah, it's been very transformative for the business. Obviously we couldn't have done that early days because it's difficult to have specialists in those categories in a small business, you need generalists that can do a lot of different things. But as our team size has grown, we've been able to get a little bit more specific. And I would say that the cornerstone to our digital marketing approach is definitely Facebook, which obviously includes Instagram. Under that umbrella, that seems to be where the most opportunities are. And it's definitely changing a little bit, the landscape, we're noticing, just based on the amount of people that are competing for that ad space. That before too long, it won't be what it was, and certainly not what it was five years ago either.

Drew Mansur:

So I guess that being the starting point, obviously we're pretty active on the Google channels as well. So Google Shopping, Google Search, YouTube pre-roll, do some stuff over there. And also the Display Network. We have fingers in lots of different little pies, which allows us to just compare the different channels as well. We're pretty data-driven in what we do. We find that different channels are more effective for different stages of the buying cycle. And it's not a particularly groundbreaking insight, but I think it's one that a lot of people maybe don't pay enough attention to. So for example, Pinterest as a channel is obviously where people are browsing and they're starting to think about their project and they're getting inspiration, putting the mood boards together and that kind of stuff.

Drew Mansur:

If you go into Pinterest with an advertising strategy that you want to try and get some sales, in our case, it's probably not a very solid strategy. That's just not what people are doing on that channel. They're not in buying mode, they're still in inspiration mode.

Stephanie Trinder:

For sure.

Drew Mansur:

And so it's an awareness channel, and that's what you need to tailor your marketing towards in that channel.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah. I love this. This is all music to my ears, and true. So where is TileCloud at now? How big is it at the moment? How many employees do you have?

Drew Mansur:

We've got about, I think 14, including the warehouse.

Stephanie Trinder:

Wow. That's awesome. And do you have your own warehouse?

Drew Mansur:

Yeah. We realized about halfway through that we needed to have better control of our supply chains. I alluded to, when we first started, we were working with local wholesalers and we still do work with most of the wholesalers here in Sydney in some capacity, work for a few different product lines. But we've also supplemented that with our own products, which has allowed us to create custom, unique products that nobody else in the market has, and further differentiate our offering compared to our competitors. There's a fair bit of financial investment that goes into having your own products and keeping stock. So we have a big warehouse here in Rosebery, it's filled up to the gills with tiles. It's not a cheap exercise, but it is a rewarding one because when we need to be dynamic, we're just in full control of the stock, the supply chain and everything. So yeah, it's been a good one for us.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah. And it just seems like such a natural progression and you know what your customers want and so now you have more control and the ability to give that to them right down to the design on the tile.

Drew Mansur:

Yeah, 100%. If you watch our ... it's usually on Instagram Stories, we're caught up in talking about new products on Instagram Stories about stuff that we're developing. And we're asking our audience, we're like, what do you guys think about this design or this design? And I don't know, if you're our competitors, you can just ... We're not really hiding anything, you can watch exactly what we're doing. If you can do the same, good luck. But yeah, here's the playbook, just watch our Instagram Stories. We're constantly talking about what products we're developing or what we're getting into next.

Stephanie Trinder:

That's so great, not only for your personal knowledge within your business and the direction of your business, but also it just invites people on this journey with you. And I think it builds a connection that goes beyond the product and the company itself.

Drew Mansur:

That's the whole reason we do it. It's because we have created a community of people that are engaged and interested in what we're doing. And sharing with them how we're doing it and what stage of the journey we're on has been something that has resonated really well. People really enjoy seeing what we're up to and how it's all going. So sharing stuff that might be a little bit more businessy than what you would normally ... It's not ads, we're not trying to sell people stuff. It's like, this is what the business is up to. We moved into a new warehouse, cool. We got a new forklift, and stuff like that that's weirdly interesting to people that are invested in the brand story and along for the ride. Because a lot of the customers, they might interact with us fairly early on in their renovation journey.

Drew Mansur:

They might be at DA stage or they might've just found a side or they're just browsing for a project they know that's coming up. And so they might be in our ecosystem for 12 months plus. And so all of a sudden, a product that they might've first heard about could be designed, developed, and then come into the market and they've watched it be born. It's just that thing of being a part of the journey, which we find people really like.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah, that's me, because I've started this renovating journey in June and the tiles that I was browsing through back then are starting to change now. As I see you guys collaborate with different people and I see different concepts come together. And for a consumer, it's definitely an exciting and interesting journey to be a part of. I love the transparency too. I think that does wonders for your authority and your credibility as a company too. So what's next for TileCloud. Is it more retail goods, more of your own tiles? What's in the works for you guys?

Drew Mansur:

Yeah. There's definitely more of our own products in the pipeline. We've just started working with an Australian tire manufacturer. So that's been really cool, adding Australian made products to our lineup, which is something that we didn't have previously. And I think that was definitely something that as the pandemic started to set in, we noticed a definite peak in interest around Australian made products as people narrowed their focus to what's available locally. And interestingly, we didn't have a lot of supply chain disruption this year at all, to be honest.

Stephanie Trinder:

Wow.

Drew Mansur:

Things flowed pretty seamlessly between our factories. We deal with factories in quite a few different countries. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of disruption there. But we definitely noticed, from a consumer perspective, that there was a greater focus on, oh, what's available locally? We had been talking about it for a little while, and it just seemed like a good time to further develop that channel. And obviously, further to your point about diversification of customer acquisition strategies, this is another diversification of our tile supply chain, having another factory to supply that's here locally. And so, good on all fronts.

Stephanie Trinder:

Awesome. I love that. We'll wrap it up in a moment. But before we do, I'd love to know, Drew, what is one piece of advice that you'd like to share with the listeners? And it can be about growing a business or marketing or whatever. What is the one piece of advice that you'd like to share?

Drew Mansur:

I'm going to give a very tactical social media strategy piece of advice. I feel like that's relevant to this conversation.

Stephanie Trinder:

Sure.

Drew Mansur:

We noticed a really big increase in our social media following when we adopted a fairly hard-line strategy of customer response. So no matter what interaction customers had with us on any social channel, it was our mission to respond to them in some way. And just acknowledge the comment, if that's all it was, or respond. And I'm not talking about like, oh, does this come in another size? That's a question and obviously people are going to respond to those types of things and make the time for that. But it was that next level of community engagement we're talking about. When somebody tags a friend to show them maybe a social media post that we've done, like jumping in there and tagging that person that did the share and say, thank so-and-so for sharing this image. I hope you like it. Or something like that.

Stephanie Trinder:

Yeah.

Drew Mansur:

It's, on one hand, you look at that comment and you think, oh, that's just polite or whatever. It's just a bit of a throwaway comment. But on the other hand, the person that you're responding to is like, oh, that's cool, the brand has said something back to me. And it's a disproportionate level of value, I think, for people to actually interact with brands. And it's not super scalable. It takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of effort, but we also found that it was really good in helping build our engaged community. Was having all these people out there that have actually interacted with us. And that's also in DMs and conversations and that's Facebook and Instagram and wherever people want to reach out, whatever channel suits them. It's talking to them on their channel and interacting. Just be a part of it.

Stephanie Trinder:

I think that's great advice because you're really using the channel for the way that it was intended. And that is to be social and to start conversations and to create a community. I think that's great advice, Drew, so thank you for sharing.

Drew Mansur:

No worries.

Stephanie Trinder:

So how is the best way, or what is the best way for people to connect with you or with TileCloud? Where do you want them to go?

Drew Mansur:

I think you can just find us online. I suppose it depends on where you're up to. If you're just starting your project, jump on Instagram at TileCloud. And if you're a little bit closer to the point end of your project, jump on the website, tilecloud.com.au, and get some samples.

Stephanie Trinder:

Drew, thank you so much for joining me. I can't wait to see what's next for TileCloud, and I just wish you guys so much success.

Drew Mansur:

Thanks very much.