Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360
Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360
Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices Featuring Mladen Vladic, Head of Products and Services for Loyalty at FIS
Loyalty programs are undergoing a transformation, driven by shifting consumer expectations, technological advancements, and an increased focus on delivering real value. As brands navigate this evolving landscape, they’re making bold moves to refine, reinvent, and, in some cases, completely overhaul their loyalty strategies.
In this installment of Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices, we sit down with Mladen Vladic, Head of Products and Services for Loyalty at FIS, to discuss what’s driving this industry-wide shift. From the growing emphasis on non-transactional rewards to the role of AI in shaping personalized customer experiences, Vlad shares key insights on where loyalty is headed in 2025.
Good afternoon, good morning. This is Mark Johnson from Loyalty360. I hope everyone's happy, safe and well. Welcome you to our new Leaders in Customer Loyalty series, industry Voices. This is the third episode in the new series, which replaces the original Loyalty Live series. In this series, we spotlight innovation and customer loyalty through insights from leading consultants, agencies and technology providers in customer channel and brand loyalty. Our guests will share expertise on the emerging trends, solutions and best practices that help brands navigate the current market conditions. Today, we'll be exploring key trends and strategies shaping customer loyalty in 2025. And we had the pleasure of speaking with Mladen Vladek. He is the General Manager of Loyalty Services at FIS Mladen how are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great. Thank you, Mark. Looking forward to our discussion and you know, before we start, I do want to thank you for everything you do for our industry, day in and day out.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. It's a great industry to be in lots of changes, coming up and looking forward to discussion, and looking forward to discussion of what's going to happen in 25. One of the things that we saw in the 2024 State of Customer Loyalty Report 79% of brands have an interest in updating, enhancing or redoing their customer loyalty programs. Are there specific industries, you see, that are leading the charge in loyalty program innovation? You know? If so, which ones and what are they doing differently?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great point, data point. I say let's start by acknowledging that 79% of brands are looking to update and enhance the program. To me that's very telling and it's really exciting time, to your point, to be part of this industry because we have rapidly shifting consumer experiences which effectively then kind of affects or impacts the way that the brands think about their loyalty program. I would say the overarching focus is on the enhancing the customer experience because of the evolution of the preferences. And then many brands are looking at the same time to, if you will right-size, the economics side, to the value prop related to their loyalty program. And there's some really good examples out there.
Speaker 2:I would say in the banking space, you know there's a lot of emphasis on importance of the merchant funded rewards all over again so that merchants can help fund some of the expenses related to loyalty where the programs are including subscription access to streaming as a value prop. I would say that the Starbucks is a good example of I would call it going back to basics in terms of easy to understand, easy to use and always focus on value. I just learned a couple of days ago that they announced in their earnings call that they're cutting their menu by 30%, which to me is very, very telling. So there are really some nice examples in terms of what we have seen in 2024. And certainly some of those trends will carry into 2025.
Speaker 1:Okay, in hindsight, what predictions about customer loyalty in 2024 do you believe turned out to be accurate, and how are these developments impacting brands and their customer loyalty program strategies?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say that that's a great question is the biggest thing that proved out accurate is a quest, ongoing quest to reimagine, redesign the loyalty program for those brands that already have one in place and then for those that don't have, they're just starting out that they're doing lots of research and analysis before they decide to put the value prop in terms of loyalty in front of customers. So I would say reinvention as a team is probably the biggest prediction that we, as the industry, envision is going to take place in 24. And I would say, as we go into 25, to me that's going to continue to be the team, because we definitely see ongoing disruption and evolution, what customers expect from brands, and so all of the brands are thinking about what changes they need to make to what they already offer and support for customers okay, excellent, you know.
Speaker 1:Alternatively, when you look at some customer loyalty trends or predictions that you expected to see, that you did not see did not materialize, you know what happened there and and you know why do you think influenced that yeah, I would say, if I have to pick one, it's just, you know, I think.
Speaker 2:I think that we all had a little bit bigger expectations when it comes to integration of social media, if you will, into the whole loyalty you know kind of reward scheme, and I would say there are examples out there, but you know certainly, I would say, clunky at best in terms of what the experience looks like. And then, as we start having conversation, why, I think that there's a, you know, there's a technology component, there's a shifting priorities on the brands, you know kind of you know side, in terms of where the focus is. And then you know, certainly, going into 25, there was a lot of regulatory uncertainty and I think that that also impacted, you know, the focus that the brands were putting on this aspect.
Speaker 1:uh, all the programs okay, when you look at uh kind of the social programs, non-transactional rewards are very important, right, getting people to refer or like or afford. Uh, as you mentioned, it didn't necessarily take off as much in in 2024. You know how can brands effectively incorporate non-transactional rewards, such as exclusive experience or benefits or getting them to take a survey? You know how do they incorporate that into their loyalty strategies to strengthen customer engagement and differentiate the program.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say let's start first by acknowledging that we as the industry and I would say over as an industry definitely over-indexed on transaction loyalty for too long, Like, let's just say too long.
Speaker 2:You know, look, I'm the first one to say that. You know, when you think about reciprocity, you know, as the loyalty construct it's important but I think we can all agree in 25 is simply not enough, Okay, so, that being said, you know that holistic approach to the customer engagement is becoming slowly the industry norm and the way that we think about this it really starts with looking holistically at the strategy and map out the journey in terms of what defines an ideal consumer engagement, depending on the brand, and to me, the exhibit A for that effort is really to look at the core driver or on consumer engagement. So, if you're in a financial institution, in finances it's all about getting a DDA account and then build and add other products and services that you can add to that relationship. If you're in the retail business, obviously securing the payment information and then preferences is so important because that allows you to add emotional loyalty components to that relationship as it progresses.
Speaker 1:Okay, perfect. When you look at brand partnerships, it's another area of interest for brands who run customer loyalty programs. They've talked about it a good deal. It's kind of retrenched a little bit because there's some complexity, as you know, in making sure the programs work from a financial perspective. Is there alignment from a program perspective between the two brands or three brands? I know you guys are doing some unique things in that regard. What is the state of customer loyalty program partnerships? They can be very challenging to incorporate. What is the state of a customer loyalty program partnerships? They can be very challenging to incorporate. Well, what are you seeing there?
Speaker 2:I would say brand partnerships are a big part, a huge part of the loyalty rewards ecosystem to your point today, and I only anticipate that the relevance of that type of approach will continue to increase in 25, and I would say beyond, and there are a couple of reasons for that right. So, on a very high level, I think that you know when you look at the you know value conscious consumer that's looking for additional, you know value that can be delivered to them in real time or in any interaction that they have with the brands. You know having the ability, or if I'm interacting with two or three different brands and I see how those two, three brands are partnering in order to deliver even greater value. For me as a consumer, that's very appealing. And I think that you know brands are certainly seeing an upside in terms of the engagement KPIs you know from those partnerships and certainly we do at FIS and that actually then helps us in terms of building the business case for expanding the existing partnerships and then looking for additional partners.
Speaker 2:And then I would say the secondary reason is when you think about the execution and disruption that we are talking about, that the whole industry is talking about, it's very hard for any given brand you know, to really develop and deploy and facilitate, you know, and keep up, if you will, with rapidly evolving consumer preferences. Yes, so there is, then you know, that philosophy and belief that I specialize in, core competency that I can offer as a brand, regardless of what that brand is, and then look for the partners to augment, you know, experience or part of the delivery or engagement with the customer, and do it in a meaningful way where it still allows me to convey the value and sentiment about my brand. So, all of that being said, I definitely you know it's a tremendous part of the ecosystem and we only expect to see it continue in 25 and beyond.
Speaker 1:Okay, you mentioned in your response that the changing expectations that we've heard about that for a number of years. We still believe at Customer Loyalty 360 that customers and brands aren't necessarily on the same page. Brands have a challenge listening to and understanding their customers sometimes I'm not sure if that's something you see and truly making sure that what they put forth is relevant and engaging with the brand. Is that something you see from a brand perspective that they may not truly listen to and understand their customers.
Speaker 2:There are certainly examples of that, mark.
Speaker 2:I would say that all of the brands are doing conscious effort to put the program in the value prop that's going to resonate with consumers, with consumers.
Speaker 2:I would say that most of the brands are doing conscious effort to actually get to know their customer and learn their preferences before they decide through what channel to engage with them and what product and what value prop to put in front of them. But there's certainly, to your point, there is that disconnect where there's a cohort of customers, right, the segment of the population is not reacting well to the new or changed or enhanced value prop or the way that the program is structured. And I call that an ongoing dialogue, if you will, with your customer base. Right, it's very hard, you know, to deliver the experience and the value prop that's going to resonate with 100% of your customers. And to me that's really a beauty of the industry that we are in, because I call that and I refer to that, and I'm a strong believer in the concept of mapping out a journey and then, over time, making changes that are going to become relevant to even broader population of your customers. And that's a journey, that's an ongoing effort that doesn't happen in one or two years.
Speaker 1:That makes perfect sense. When you look at some of the new technologies out there, everyone's focused on AI, even though AI has kind of a number of different connotative and denotative meanings. Is it just a regression analytics model that you've ran in the past, that you've renamed? Gamification is very hot right now. Zero-party, first-party data. Being able to leverage that, making sure that your CDP or personalization engines can actually do that, is a big challenge. When you look at some of these technologies out there, which ones do you think will have the greatest impact for those who have customer loyalty programs in 2025?
Speaker 2:So let's start with kind of my take on this. They're all cool, right, they're all relevant and they all matter, right. I am very bullish on AI. I'm truly bullish on AI, and one of the reasons is, you know, there's a cohort of customers out there and the way that they're interacting with the rest of the brands in their daily lives they're going with the rest of the brands in their daily lives they're going to be expecting that the rewards, the loyalty kind of experience, follows that same model. And so for that reason, I do believe that we are in early days and with all of the recent developments over the course of the last six to nine to 12 months, I think that we are definitely in early days.
Speaker 2:But I can see how having autonomous decision-making capabilities that can execute complex tasks, that can negotiate outcomes, that can adopt strategy based on the contextual understanding and predetermined goals is going to have a tremendous impact on what we do in consumer loyalty. You know, from the servicing standpoint, in my opinion, initially, but then think about segmentation and personalization capabilities down the road. You know when it's fully operationalized. To me, this is a dream of every marketer out there. You know, in terms of targeting the right audience, you know, with the right offer at the right time, and to me this is a promise. Ai is the promise of that. So I am, and we are, definitely bullish on that technology. The biggest unknown and the biggest question right is that something that we deploy and we, as the industry, embrace this year or 26. That's hard to pinpoint, but I have no doubt that it's going to change what we do and how we do it.
Speaker 1:Excellent when you look at the balance of investing in these technologies but also ensuring that these innovations deliver highly measurable value, because value is a big discussion right now. In customer loyalty we hear from our brands value in the program, value to the customer, value of the brand. Value is taken on a whole new level of importance in our discussions with our members. I mean, it's probably the number one word we hear right now because the economy is uncertain. Some brands are doing exceptionally well, some are not. So when you look at how brands how do they balance these new technologies with making sure that they're delivering the measurable results that they need around customer experience, it's a great question, mark.
Speaker 2:So I think you use the key word balance, right, and I think that there are many brands out there I would think that we would agree on this where they had the real struggle to kind of balance, if you will. You know the benefits, measurable, quantifiable benefits, you know, versus the investments in technology and then proving the ROI. And so, that being said, I do believe that this absolutely starts with the buy-in from all of the stakeholders, from the top of the house, in terms of what the end goal or the strategy looks like, because in many instances, as you know, this is a multi-year approach, right? So if you purely measure ROI in a 12-month budget increments, you will end up in trouble, right, because it's going to be hard. And so, to me, that's why, you know, getting that buy-in, you know, from the top of the house on the holistic strategy that gets executed in multiple phases is the key.
Speaker 2:I'm a strong believer in evolution versus revolution, right, you know leverage, you know what you have versus revolution, right, you know leverage. You know what you have, take, keep everything that works and then figure out the ways to evolve the pieces, that where you're clearly getting the feedback from the market from your customers, that you need to do something different. I also believe that this also, you know, becomes an opportunity for you know, for brands to focus on those in-between moments where technology can enable certain, you know, becomes an opportunity for you know, for brands to focus on those in between moments where technology can enable certain, you know, feature functionality, offers. You know that could drive you the engagement that you didn't necessarily even consider or think about in the path, and to me that is an opportunity. That is an incremental opportunity to make your business case that much more compelling so that you can, to your point, find the balance, improve the ROI and get the buy-in from the top of the house to continue to execute.
Speaker 1:And we did a research paper last year on the opportunities for AI and customer loyalty. Many brands, as we've discussed, are in the early stages of AI. Around the technology, I think there's a higher threshold or benchmark where brands have to get things bought off on it. I liken it to autonomous cars, autonomous vehicles right, they've killed, not the meaning of people. They've killed like four or five, six people. Right, not many, but there's 13,000 car accidents in the USA, 13,000 on average. So we're worried. Same thing with AI right, ai messes up one email that goes out. Well, now teams are having to build teams to prove what AI does, and there's a balance between proving it versus learning from it. So what do you see in that regard? What are some of the risks and challenges associated with implementing AI in customer loyalty strategies and how can brands mitigate that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would. Just before I even answer that question, you just made a really great point that I want to reiterate. Like, just remember the early days of Internet or email marketing or all of the new technologies that come out there, right. So you know, we live in an age now where those you know components are really perfected, right, but in early days they were learning. So the fact that you know AI is not perfect to me is just normal because it's part of the evolution. So you know, in a couple of years it's definitely going to be a different story in terms of the you know to your point, the accuracy and perfection of the expectation.
Speaker 2:Now, as I think about AI and risks with all of those, I would say we need to balance all of that excitement about what it could mean and what it could do for our industry. You know, with kind of some of the you know risks and, I would say, responsibilities, that the players have to make sure that you know they implement this in a responsible way. And when I say responsible way, like to me, there's a technology component and then there's a compliance right, regulatory component. So when you think about technology, there's so many companies out there to choose from, many of whom do not have, you know, the track record in terms of their performance right. So to me, choosing the right partner is very, very important first step, and it's not an easy one. And so just last week, as you know, we all heard the news about, you know, deep seek right when they can do things that are, you know, much cheaper. There's a quote to 6 million to get to where they are today.
Speaker 2:I certainly don't have you know all of the information, but to me this is just yet another validation of how you know, fluid that industry is, and so finding the right partner, you know, not only for the early use cases but for ongoing strategy, is the key, and it's not an easy one. The second one is, and I alluded to that, it's compliance and regulatory right component of it, and I think about this in terms of look, just because technology can support right, that doesn't mean that we automatically, you know, deploy without additional consideration in terms of regulatory, and there is going to be a lot of scrutiny on that component, as those, to your point, as those models learn and truly can, you know, make decisions in milliseconds and change the way what we are putting in front of the customer in terms of the value prop and what channel we are engaging the customer. So that's really exciting. But you know, technology and regulatory are going to be a big, big discussion point for the industry in the next couple of years.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You know, as customer interactions continue to span across both the physical and digital and environment channels, you know how should loyalty programs look to integrate both in-store and online experiences for a more seamless and cohesive customer journey for customers. You know how can brands create loyalty programs that work across these disparate touchpoints mobile app, in-store websites, social media while maintaining that unified experience for their customers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say I will probably refer to a couple of themes that I already covered so far, but the most important thing for me, for us, the way that we think about this industry, is that to start thinking about share or mind before you start thinking share or wallet, right, and so when you think about share of mind, then you're really going back to mapping out the journey, getting to know your customer, having the feedback loop, to learn about their feedback, which is very important so that you can continue to evolve and then, based on their preferences, right, they're telling you what is the, you know, the right way, the proper way, timing wise, um, and everything else. They engage with them, not only about the purchase, but but about the return process and everything else that matters to them. Because, at the end of the day, when they, you know, when they go out there to give a review about the brand and engagement with the brand, they're looking at the holistic relationship that they have with the brand versus one interaction through one channel on a single purchase. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:When you look at some of the challenges that customer loyalty programs have. What are one or two reasons why loyalty programs fail to meet their goals and how can brands address?
Speaker 2:these issues.
Speaker 2:So there's a famous writer that once said that all happy families are alike and each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. And if I think about that analogy and I think about the you know, consumer loyalty, you know, I think about, you know, every program has, you know, some very unique things. Right, if you will that cause them to fail, not drive the adoption and things like that. But then, on the flip side to your point, there are some commonalities that are absolutely that you can see the trend right when you evaluate those programs and I would say they're probably on a high level. Three of them that are absolutely crucial. So the first one is really having a poor understanding of the consumer behavior and their preferences. If you don't start with really getting to your customer and the problem ultimately that you're solving, you have no chance of being successful.
Speaker 2:That being said, and I alluded to that at the beginning of our conversation, I think that most of the brands are really doing a much better job, and good job understanding, spending time on the front end to survey, to understand, to interview and to learn about what matters to their customer before they even start the whole development and deployment process.
Speaker 2:So that's the first one. The second one is, you know, not understanding economics, or getting economics wrong. Maybe put it that way. You know, if you don't get the economics model right, it's not sustainable. And then it's a matter of, like you know, changing the value prop as you go which may impact your you know the perception of the customer about your program in the first place. And then the second. The third one is having the point where you're not driving incrementality with the tremendous investment and that's a recipe for, you know, not having a bright future when you think about the prospects of that program. So those three are probably, you know, main drivers that we see all the time right, even though there are going to be some unique things across all of these programs that struggle in some respect.
Speaker 1:Okay, how do you think customer expectations will evolve in 2025? And how should brands be prepared to meet that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say what's interesting there. You know, in my opinion, they're going to change, they will continue to change, but then I can also argue at the same time time they will stay the same. They will stay the same in terms of, you know, and you alluded to that as well customers. You know they continue to look for value, right? So how do I get value? You know, from engaging with this brand and their program. So value will continue to be a big, big, big topic throughout 2025. And then I would say technology is probably second Technology in terms of as these expectations, in terms of preferences, evolve, technology needs to be there to evolve that experience so that brands can stay relevant. So I would say CX, mostly tied to technology capabilities and value, are two things that we will continue to see in 25, top of the list from the consumer standpoint.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, blen, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us. It's always great to hear from you. Now we have our wonderful quickfire questions. It's actually the second time you've done this. We've updated the questions, so hopefully you like them. We're trying to make these a little more.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I changed some of my answers, so let's do it.
Speaker 1:That's good. That's good, that's good. How would you describe your work life?
Speaker 2:Evolution and constant learning.
Speaker 1:Okay, if you have a day or a week off from work, what are you doing? Uh, hiking, there you go. What are your new year's resolutions?
Speaker 2:uh, live in the moment. Every day matters excellent.
Speaker 1:If you could live in any other city or country, what city or country would that be?
Speaker 2:that one probably changed. I would say sedona, arizona, for a season okay, there you go.
Speaker 1:If you go back to school, what would you study? Psychology, okay. Is there a facet of your job, a piece of your job, that you maybe like to do a little less, maybe not like to know as much about?
Speaker 2:or be involved in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, compliance, Okay. Is there a facet of your job that you'd like to maybe do more with? Be more involved with?
Speaker 2:AI and definitely learning. I think that that answer is probably universal these days.
Speaker 1:Okay, what motivates you in tackling challenges at FIS?
Speaker 2:I would say impact of our work on our clients and then end user.
Speaker 1:And what do you draw inspire from inspiration, from what lights your fire?
Speaker 2:Prospects of evolving the industry that I'm part of. That's awesome. Love that.
Speaker 1:What is your favorite sport or hobby these days? Pickleball.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:And, I think, the fastest support. We'll ask you what do you typically think about at the end of the day?
Speaker 2:How do I make better decisions tomorrow?
Speaker 1:Mladen, I want to thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us today on the third edition of our Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast series Industry Voices podcast. It was great getting your perspective on the upcoming trends that are going to impact customer loyalty in 2025. And we look forward to learning more from you and your team at FIS throughout the remainder of the year. Thank you, mark. I totally enjoyed it, absolutely. I also wanted to thank everyone for tuning in to this Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast series. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast below and follow Loyalty360 on YouTube and Twitter for everything regarding customer channel, and follow loyalty 360 on YouTube and Twitter for everything regarding customer channel and brand loyalty. The links are provided below. Also, please join us every Wednesday for another edition in our leaders and customer loyalty industry voices podcast. Should you have any questions in there, please let us know. Thank you.