#517: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Supplier Voices | Mobile Loyalty in Motion: How Messaging Platforms Are Reshaping Customer Engagement

For many brands, the future of customer loyalty is increasingly unfolding on mobile phones. Mobile engagement platforms are quickly becoming central to how brands build relationships, deliver timely value, and personalize experiences at scale. 

As loyalty programs evolve from transactional reward systems to continuous engagement ecosystems, mobile messaging is emerging as one of the most effective ways to maintain that connection. Alex Campbell, CIO and co-founder of Vibes, a mobile engagement platform, believes the shift reflects a broader change in how consumers interact with brands in a digital-first environment. 

Transcript

Welcome And Show Format\n

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi everyone, this is AJ Schneider from Loyalty360, welcoming you to another edition of Leaders in Customer Loyalty Supplier Voices. In these episodes, we talk to the leading agencies, technology partners, and consultants in customer, channel, and brand loyalty about the technology, trends, and best practices that drive customer loyalty. Today we're speaking with Alex Campbell, CIO and co-founder of Vibes. Alex, welcome. Thanks for being on the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Thank you for having me. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Absolutely.

What Vibes Does For Brands\n

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Absolutely. So just to kind of start off before we kind of jump in too far, tell us a little bit about Vibes and what you guys do, who your client base is, and how you typically uh help brands to strengthen their relationships.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah, so I started Vibes uh 26 years ago now. So we've been around for a while, especially in mobile. Um, but we are a mobile engagement platform and we work primarily with large B2C brands, uh enterprise brands that have have a certain level of scale. Uh we help them communicate with their customers on their phones, right? So via SMS, MMS, RCS now is becoming a really big opportunity. Uh mobile wallet, um, you know, even though mobile wallet came out a while ago, now all of a sudden we've seen a huge interest in mobile wallet and then push as well. So push messages to an app. Um, so usually we work with uh you know QSR, travel, retailers, large brands, you know, everybody that wants to communicate with their customers for repeat repeat you know purchases, driving traffic, um, all using mobile device.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Gotcha. And it sounds like there's probably some competitors out there as well in in your space. We have competitors, yes. So so tell us you what what is the kind of the unique value proposition that Vibes brings to the table versus some of the other folks that are out there?

Mobile First Advantage And Compliance\n

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, I think it's it's interesting because this this you know the the world of of of communication, especially direct communication in a digital world, has has changed a little bit over time. I mean, I remember when everything was email, right? It was all email, email, email. That was a way to get people a message um you know that was segmented, that was targeted. And now people just aren't paying attention to email, right? So I think we have a lot of players in our space who grew up in email and and now they're starting to realize that email isn't connecting as much with consumers. Um so they're they're coming into the mobile space. And so what makes us different is that we've always been mobile first, we've always had um you know that mindset, which is a different mindset than email. Um, you know, when you're on a when you're on a mobile device, it's a very personal device. So you want to make sure that you respect that. Um whereas email you can send someone, and people do send someone you know four emails a day, and that's okay, because people aren't really paying attention to email. Um so that's that's one is just the fundamental um, you know, how we think about communication. Um the a second piece of that is as we've learned, as we've grown, is the scale, right? So if you're gonna send a message to a million people and you want it to hit right before lunch, um, you know, you have to have certain throughput, you have to have, you have to make sure that message gets to the handset. Um so we've learned that we need to have carrier grade reliability, we have direct connectivity into the carriers, which others don't have, um, so that we can ensure that that message gets delivered on time. Um, and then I think another piece of this is compliance, right? In email, you don't have a lot of compliance, but with something like SMS, you do. Um, there's a lot of there's level, there's different layers of compliance. There's legal, there's what the carriers care about. Um, and it's kind of a maze that uh you know, you you have to be able to know you know what is compliance and how do you make sure that you excel at that. Um, so that makes us different as well. Um, and then as we're starting to join in, build in some AI, I think you know, everybody talks about AI, but we're taking the approach based on what I just talked about of how does AI help in a mobile world? Um, and and and we're starting to see some really interesting results um that are probably different than you'd see in email or in other in other CRM type opportunities.

AI Timing Wins For SMS\n

SPEAKER_01 4:26

So that's actually that's probably a good a good segue into my next question, um, which is kind of when you're looking back over the past 12, 24 months, um, what are the major trends in customer loyalty and engagement that that you know are standing out to you or and and for your clients? I I have to believe that AI is certainly part of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Of course it is, it has to be, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

And and I think, but it's interesting because it's it's the AI, AI is a tool, right? And so, so I think, you know, and and look, we I've been doing as I mentioned, I've been doing this for for you know 26 years. Like these things come along every once in a while. I mean, I remember when augmented reality was like the greatest thing ever and it's gonna change everything. Uh now now AI is very different, it it will change everything. Um, but but it's important to take a step back and understand like what does it do? What is the tool? How does it make um you know what I'm doing and loyalty better? You know, we're starting to see where one of the first one of the first AI use cases we implemented was like sending in a certain date, right? And so our AI would actually go in and look at all sorts of data and would come back and determine what days of the week are the best days for you as a brand to send a message. Um and we had some surprises on that. Um, and you know, some days that we thought were kind of like dull, like a Tuesday, like turns out that got the best response. Um, then we started looking at having AI look at time of day. Um, we had one customer who, for some reason, someone somewhere decided 10 a.m. was the best time to send a text message. Um and I don't know where that came from, but everybody seems to do that. Um, our AI started telling us for this particular brand, it was for um it was targeted at new moms, um, started saying, send this later in the evening. And it was like that was always one of those things, like, no, we want the message out there because people can shop all day. Um, but all of a sudden we switched and we started sending a message at um you know around 7 p.m. local time and got a huge increase in response, like 26%. And we realized that moms would put their kids to bed and then they go shopping. And it's like, yeah, I should have, I should have known that, you know, but I didn't. But AI actually came back and helped us see some of these trends um that that really that really matter. Um, and so that's the way I think of AI is how can AI help us understand the market better and and the consumer better and make things better for them, right? You know, that mom actually probably liked getting a message at seven, not at 10, because you know, she didn't have to go back and search and remember that she got some, you know, an offer. Um, it just came to her phone when she needed it.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

So

Measuring Sales And Foot Traffic\n

SPEAKER_01 7:11

is where let's just stay on that for a little bit. So, you know, you you mentioned a little bit how AI kind of fits into the mobile engagement arena. What are some of the other areas you're using to look at data, obviously, in terms of like, you know, uh, I guess you in in mobile is it called an open um or or or a click? Would how do you describe it?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, I mean we we look at we look at yeah, engagement. So so clicks on on it, but it's not it's not even just clicks on a on a on a link, it's it's how many people actually went through and purchased, right? Or came to the store. You know, I mean one of the great things with with wallet is that now I can download an offer to my phone, and then when I go scan it at checkout, you know, we as you know the brand can know that a certain program actually drove traffic, right? And and we've always talked about footfall and and driving foot traffic. You know, now mobile does a great job with that, right? Where I can actually actually bring someone into my store where like, you know, honestly, they buy more things, right? That's why we want to get people in in physically into a store, not just on a website where they can go, you know, buy one thing very easily. Like let's get them into the store and show them that experience uh so they could they can actually increase that basket size.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

And and so you're using AI to uh to serve up uh relevant uh offers for your clients, those kinds of things. What what other areas is affinity? Yeah, I think research.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, yeah, one interesting way we look at AI is you know SMS in general is is you know, when you compare it to the email, it's not cheap, right? When you there's a cost to sending every single text message. So if I send a text message and you don't respond to it, like that's a waste of money. So we want to use AI to almost eliminate some of that, you know, the messages that go out that aren't looked at or aren't actually like like clicked on. Um we we have a we have a saying internally here at Vives called that we want to make the perfect send. And the perfect send, this is kind of our you know big, hairy, audacious goal, of which is when a message goes out, a hundred percent of the people who get it actually click, nobody opts out, and it took you zero time to actually send that message. So obviously AI plays a huge role in that, where you almost look at these, you know, segmentation becomes personal, right? It's not based on you or a you're lumped into this one segment that you know, you know, likes you know certain products, right? It's no, I know what shirt you actually want, and there happens to be an offer on that shirt right now. I need to get you that message so that you get that offer, right? So AI takes segmentation to an individual level, and that's the real power of it, right?

Content Strategy And RCS Messaging\n

SPEAKER_01 9:57

So what's fascinating is that it it it seems like when when we look at, for example, how brands are trying to engage with younger generations, um, although I would argue it's it's kind of pervasive across all age groups and and demographics, that instant gratification is a huge thing, time to value is a huge thing. How you know, if you're with an LG program, how long does it take to pay off, you know, uh, you know, being part of this program? It seems like the the uh the mobile arena and everything you just described is perfect for that level of personalization. Um are you finding that your clients are are connecting better with Gen Z and so on? Um because they're using it.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

I think yeah, I I think the it's interesting that we so we do a consumer survey every year. We've been doing it for nine years, and about I think it was either last year or the year before, um, we always ask people like why would you opt out of an SMS program? And uh two years ago, we we first started seeing people say, Because I don't get enough messages. And it was like, wait, what? Like that was counterintuitive to what we thought. Um, obviously, we're we were trying to search for like all right, five messages per week is the is the ultimate cap. But what what ended up happening was especially younger generation, they said, Hey, I don't mind, like you can send me any number of messages like per week that you want as long as they're personalized, as long as they're relevant to me, as long as they add value. Um, and then we noticed there's a trend of especially you know, Gen Z, but but to your point, it's more than just younger generations. Um, you know, people expect so they expect the message when it comes to you like to be personalized and to be sent to you for a reason. Um, and so it throws this whole loyalty as like idea of, you know, a lot of the the brands that we work with have you know certain cohorts or certain tiers, but it's really changing the world of loyalty to personalize loyalty, right? I mean you're always you have this continuous engagement with with a consumer over time, and that that's what loyalty is turning into is what is that engagement and how how is it relevant to me, right? Not necessarily my cohort or my tier um or or something like that. It's

Why SMS Must Be Targeted\n

SPEAKER_00 12:19

how is it actually relevant to me personally? And I think consumers are expecting that now.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Are there certain kinds of programs or certain kinds of um you know offers or creative or whatever that that you've worked on with with your clients that tend to work better than others within the mobile engagement environment?

SPEAKER_00 12:41

I mean, yeah, I I and I I hate to sound like a broken record on this, but personalized offers, right? So so offers where you get something that you know, when you when you think about your phone, right? Like when I get an offer on my phone that is relevant to me, that I want, like that's an amazing experience. When I get something that's like, oh, you know, 10% off, you know, the next two weeks at this brand, it's like, why did you text me that? Right. So, you know, the the the offers that have relevance to to that that show that you as a brand understand me as the consumer, I think those are the best. We've also anecdotally found where, and this, I mean, it kind of sounds silly, but when when you win something, you you pay way more attention to that. So we, you know, from a loyalty perspective,

Wallet Attribution And Optimisation\n

SPEAKER_00 13:27

you know, if if let's just say there's a 5% off offer out there, and if I just send it to you, it's like, oh, that's nice. But if I say something like, hey, you just won this, or I give you a little like spin-to win in an experience and you happen to win, huge increase in redemption on that. Um, and so so people just enjoy that experience. And I think that shows overall, like, you know, having an engaging experience is better than not, that is relevant, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

So so not to uh not not to put too fine a point on it, but but let me just take that one step further. In in and I guess part of what I meant was also um even the the the types of um subject matter, you know, for example, what we hear is like you know, especially let's talk about the Gen Z, some more uh you know, experiential types of things versus an offer for a discount or something like that. Yeah, does does the the the SMS world and the mobile engagement world does it does it work particularly well? For example, if you are um if you're in the middle of a vacation and you get a text message that says, Hey, uh by the way, um, you know, for X dollars or whatever it is, you can have this, you know, what you can rent the boat or go on a tour or whatever. I mean, are you seeing that kind of stuff, you know, uh be successful versus hey, here's a you know, uh X discount on something?

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, I mean, relevancy is key. You know, we always say that mobile is different because of time, location, and interactivity. So from a time of day, uh, I mean, you what you just talked about is location, right? I'm on vacation and it's in the morning, like that's actually two of them, right? It's like, all right, there's a boat offer, right? That's relevant, right? But if I were to get a message that says, I mean, just my example before of like, hey, you know, for for all of March, you know, get 10% off, like don't text that to me, right? Like, like send me an email, um, you know, because or put it up on your website or something like that. Um, but but if there's something that I need to know about as a consumer, like text that to me. Like, I actually want you to text that to me because I don't want to miss it, right? And this goes

Advice On Mobile Wallet And RCS\n

SPEAKER_00 15:41

back to you know, some of the things I was talking about before with like with scale, like there are a number of providers out there who can't handle the scale and may deliver a message late. I mean, and and and when you're when you're talking about mobile and SMS particularly, like hours matter, right? So so if I get you know, take that lunch offer and I meant for it to go out at 11:30, if because of my provider doesn't have that high throughput, it gets delivered at three. Like it's actually bad because like not only did that consumer miss the offer, but you just told them there was an offer that they couldn't get, right? So like it's doubly bad, and we've seen that a number of times. So, you know, I I think that's one of the learnings of you know, if you were to get that email later, like it's like, oh, I didn't check my email, so I missed that offer. But like, if I just texted you saying, hey, you just missed an offer, like that's not a good customer experience, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Right. So sorry, let me let me ask a little bit more about this. I'm fascinated by this part of the the psychology of of of text messaging versus email for a minute. Yeah, so I I I have to even in my own experience, um, as somebody who's maybe a little bit older, been around for for quite some time and seen the shift from uh 100% email to things like uh text messaging to things like the chat feature on Teams or or you know any of the other uh you know uh programs. Um I have to believe that that also the the the change in where people are doing their business, like just in general, emails seem to be reserved now for a certain type of work. Um maybe it's uploading a you know when I have to attach a document or something, I don't know, something like that, versus the the immediacy just of of the back and forth communication that we can have on a type, it's more like a conversation, I guess. Has that really helped your business to be able to be as successful as it has because of that sort of psychological shift in in terms of the way people do business?

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Yeah, absolutely. And and I think you know, there they're again different layers of that, right? I mean, the phone is a very personal device, and so when you send me a text, I look at it, right? And so if you're interrupting my day with something I don't care about, like you're gonna you're gonna get opt-outs, right? So so we always say, you know, brands always ask us, like, how do I grow my database? Um, and the magic there is content, like it has nothing to do with like web pop-ups or are you signing people up in the store, blah, blah, blah. It's what content are you putting out there and is it good? And do people value it when they get it, right? Um, and that's what's going to build your mobile database the fastest. Um, and so, but yeah, to your point, there are social differences between email and SMS. And I think it's really interesting to see you know, one of the things that that is changing in SMS right now is RCS. So RCS is coming out, which is a it's just a more advanced, feature-rich uh art SMS world. So, you know, I always say, you know, when when when Apple went from SMS to iMessage, like that's now happening across brands. So I can send you a little carousel that says, hey, you looked at these three shirts, you know, do you want to buy one? Or you left these one of these three shirts in your in your um in your basket, you know, would you would you want to complete that purchase? Makes it very easy and it's very interactive. Now, now with AI, you know, now you can start to have some of these conversations. And I think it's really interesting because even myself, as I've started using AI, and you know, some of the new, you know, some of the programs where you're actually more just chatting with an LLM and a bot. Like, I mean, this is so I always take one day and I always like I try and be very focused on AI and what I can do with it just to learn. And so, you know, this was last Friday, and I was chatting with Claude, and then I noticed I was chatting with people, actual humans in Slack, and it was like kind of the same thing. It was this weird thing of like, am I chatting with a person or a bot right now? And I have to change how I chat. It's like, but as we use AI more, it's just gonna be expected that I can ask, you know, the the like in a conversation, I can ask for things and I immediately get them, right? And so if I'm a brand and my consum and I send out a message to my my my customer and they respond back, how do I respond to them? Right. And they're gonna expect a certain level of interaction, which we just need to make sure we're there, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah, yeah, and and and in terms of content, like you mentioned, I I I think the um you know, for example, if if if you're used to delivering a newsletter via email, let's say is there an equivalent to that in your world? Like can you like it has to it can't it can't be the full thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

No, it can't right. Yeah. I mean to me, and and and look, maybe I'm a cynic because I because I'm a mobile person, but like the reason you send out a newsletter with many different options is that's almost like you're throwing the net in the water, hoping you get something, right? That's not SMS. SMS is you have a you have a fishing pole and a specific lure, and you're trying to go after one individual, right? And so, you know, yeah, you have to be concise, you have to be very targeted. And this is where I'm excited about um, you know, thankfully, brands have done a great job with data up, you know, for the last couple of years, right? And they have a lot of data. And it was interesting that as we as we work with some of our brands, a lot of them come in and saying, we have so much data on our consumers. Now all of a sudden, SMS and messaging gives you a way to use that, right? In a very targeted way that is that is beneficial for everybody. Um, and so a lot of our brands have have looked at mobile and said, hey, this is actually a way I can use all this data I've collected in a very valuable way. Um and that's really exciting, right? I think I think that you know we don't have to wait for brands to understand who their their customers are, like they know that. And now we We have a way to actually reach out to people at scale, but with actual individualized messages.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

And you touched on this just a little bit, but in terms of measurement, um, is is the primary measurement that you guys are looking at when when you know when you're sending out a personalized offer or whatever, uh, do you you end up with access for your clients? Like you can see an actual purchase was made, and therefore that's obviously in the win column. Is that the primary thing?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Did you so there's there's two ways we do that, right? So so if if I send out a text with a link in it and you go online and and buy it that way, like obviously there's e-com tags where you can actually track that purchase. The beauty of of something like mobile wallet, which when I talk about mobile wallet, it's the it's Apple Pay, it's Apple Wallet, it's Google Wallet, right? That are that are on everybody's phone. So if I send out an offer and I can have someone download that to their phone and I can give them a unique ID and a unique unique number, when they go into the store and scan that offer, now all of a sudden I get that level of of data that I can look and make sure and I can see how things worked, right? How a campaign worked. Um now all of a sudden you have this total attribution, which we've always wanted, right? In in the in especially in the advertising world, where I can tell how well a campaign did, not just with driving e-com sales, but driving foot traffic and sales. Um and we're seeing where where we do that, um I would, you know, it's probably 70 to 85% of the redemptions are actually happening in the store. Um, and so if you're just tracking that e-comm tag, you're missing out on you know 80% of the actual results. Um, and then I would always say, like, for my counterpart at a brand, it's like you need to get credit for that, right? You just drove a tremendous amount of money and you're only getting credit for your e-comm tags. Like that's 15% of what you actually drove. Um, and then it gives you this ability to understand that a certain campaign didn't work well, right? And so, I mean, whenever we're doing you know business reviews with our customers, we'll always go through like here are the campaigns that worked well, here are the ones that didn't. And let's look at the difference um and look at what why that was a difference. Um, and then you can actually tweak the program to get better and better. Um, and that's really exciting, right? That that's a really it's it's a it's a great view into marketing and being able to know what's working and what's not working like in real time.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Yeah. And and are you finding in in that using that example, are you finding that that the in-store sales are going up because they got a relevant the the consumer got a relevant message while they were in the mall, or are they actually getting the offer, whatever it is, leaving their house and going to the store? Which what is it?

SPEAKER_00 24:48

It can be both, right? And and that's the beauty of it, right? Is that and I go back to, you know, if I want to send someone a message and get them out of their house, that might I I might need a bigger offer, right? But if if I know they're at the mall, or if I know that they they you know they're they're gonna be at work, right? Where you know, I have a QSR restaurant, right, that is near someone's work, and I know that they come into that restaurant multiple times a week or multiple times a month, that's a little bit different, right? And so, and and and you're you're hitting on the the exact spot, right? Of like understanding who your consumer is and and and what is gonna make them make a move is is extremely important. And AI can absolutely help in that way. Um, but you want to target content differently based on those different scenarios, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Gotcha. Okay. Well, to to to wrap up, let me ask you this. What uh as you kind of look at your client base and and the trends that are going on in the industry, um what is a piece of advice that you would give to folks, uh A in general, uh uh about loyalty trends and so on, and then more specifically about um mobile engagement?

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah, I mean, on the loyalty side, think of mobile wallet, right? So you now have this tremendous opportunity to get your loyalty card into someone's phone. Um and what what it's gonna do for consumers is, and I have, and you should see my mobile wallet, it's insane. Um, you know, I'm probably not the normal person, but but I now can join loyalty programs and be a part of so many more loyalty programs, and they're on my phone, and my phone saves it, stores it. I don't have to, you know, we have all that experience where you walk into a store and you're checking out, and it's like, what's your phone number?

unknown 26:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

And I'm like, I can't remember which phone number I gave for this. Was it my old home phone number? Was it my wife's phone number? And I also don't want to tell everybody standing in line what my phone number is, right? And so now if I have my loyalty card on my phone, I can just tap it or I can scan it and it's immediately there, and I get to participate in the loyalty program. So, to me, for brands right now, look at that mobile wallet. The mobile wallet is going to replace a physical wallet. Um, both Apple and Google are are putting your driver's license in there. You can put your passport in there. You will not need a physical wallet in you know a year, right? And so, especially with younger consumers, they're gonna go right to that wallet first. So getting in there and making sure that you're you're in that is is gonna be very important because your competitors are gonna get in there, right? Um, so that's kind of one trend that I that I would look at. And then the RCS uh change is gonna be very it is gonna be a huge shift as well, where now I can actually interact with consumers in a much more you know feature-rich um, you know, you can put commerce in there, you can have people, you can make it very easy for people to buy. It really goes after the app, right? If you rely on your app for loyalty, you don't have to do that anymore, right? And you can actually engage with people who may not go through and download your app who but are still are still loyal customers. You can engage with them with app-like functionality in a messaging environment. And that's that's huge, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Awesome. Well, fascinating stuff. Alex, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today on our Leaders in Customer Loyalty Supplier Voices podcast. We look forward to hearing more from uh from you and the team at Vibes.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah, absolutely. It's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Thanks for having me.

Subscribe And Weekly Schedule

SPEAKER_01 28:25

I want to thank everyone for tuning in to our Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast series. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the Leaders in Customer Loyalty Podcast and follow Loyalty360 on YouTube and LinkedIn. The links are provided below. And please join us every Tuesday for another edition of our supplier voices podcast. See you next time.