The decision to wean your little one from breastfeeding is a personal one and can be challenging for everyone involved, even if you're ready!
In this episode of the My Sleeping Baby podcast, I'm chatting with Brianne Taggart from Breezy Babies about how to go about weaning your little one from breastfeeding as smoothly and seamlessly as possible.
More specifically, we discuss the following:
Have a listen!
Follow Brianne on Instagram here- https://www.instagram.com/breezy__babies/
Listen to the Breezy Babies Podcast here- https://breezybabies.com/blogs/podcast
Want to get your little one consistently sleeping 11-12 hours at night so you can be a functioning human? Join my FREE training HERE: https://mysleepingbaby.ac-page.com/registration-page-v-2
The decision to wean your little one from breastfeeding is a personal one and can be challenging for everyone involved, even if you're ready!
In this episode of the My Sleeping Baby podcast, I'm chatting with Brianne Taggart from Breezy Babies about how to go about weaning your little one from breastfeeding as smoothly and seamlessly as possible.
More specifically, we discuss the following:
Have a listen!
Follow Brianne on Instagram here- https://www.instagram.com/breezy__babies/
Listen to the Breezy Babies Podcast here- https://breezybabies.com/blogs/podcast
Want to get your little one consistently sleeping 11-12 hours at night so you can be a functioning human? Join my FREE training HERE: https://mysleepingbaby.ac-page.com/registration-page-v-2
Eva (00:04):
Hey there, you’re listening to the My Sleeping Baby podcast, which is all about baby and child sleep. I’m so excited to teach you how you can get your little ones sleeping so that you can sleep too and enjoy parenthood to its fullest. I’m Eva Klein, your resident’s sleep expert, mom of three, founder of the Sleep Bible online coaching program, and lover of all things sleep and motherhood. If you’re looking for tangible solutions for your little one sleep woes or you simply want to learn more, this podcast is for you. For more information, check out mysleepingbaby.com and you can follow me on Instagram and Facebook @mysleepingbaby.m, and you can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at My Sleeping Baby.
Eva (00:44):
Okay, Brie, thank you so much for being here on the My Sleeping Baby Podcast today.
Brie (00:49):
Thank you so much for having me. This is gonna be so much fun.
Eva (00:53):
Amazing. So, before we dive in, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Brie (00:59):
Yes. So my name is Brie. I am the owner of Breezy Babies. I first started my journey back when I had my first baby. She is almost 12 now. Um, and when I had her, I, um, I did not prepare for labor and delivery. I did not prepare for breastfeeding. I thought, oh, I'm a nurse. I know what I'm doing. It'll be no big deal. I'm sure they'll just tell me what to do at the hospital and it'll just know what to do. Well, I did not <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> know what to do at all. And I don't know why I thought even being a nurse would help me, cuz at that time I didn't even work in women's services at all. I, I didn't do anything like that. So I kind of muddled through, figured it out. Um, not long after I had her, I started working on a postpartum unit as a nurse, which is where you go after you have the baby. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I thought, oh, I'll give Motrin and I'll push on some funs. What I didn't realize is that I would be doing a ton of breastfeeding help working there. Yes. And I did not realize that at all. I had breastfed my baby, but teaching someone how to breastfeed and breastfeeding yourself are two very different things. <laugh>. Right. I found myself just like, oh, I don't know. Just hold up the baby. And they walk on and just
Eva (02:21):
Put baby to the breast and then baby will magically open his mouth and latch on perfectly and everything will work.
Brie (02:29):
Yeah. It's not like that at all. No, <laugh>. So I learned a lot over those five years that I worked on postpartum, how to teach other people how to breastfeed because it's not helpful if I can get a baby to latch. I want that parent to be able to do it so that they're feeling confident when they go home. Right. So, and even working in the hospital, I have to tell you, I did not know what an I B C L C is. That stands for International Board Certified Lactation Consultant. Basically just like the experts on breastfeeding. We didn't even have one of those on staff. And this is like a really, like a pretty reasonably sized hospital in Salt Lake City, Utah. And I had no idea what an I B C L C was. So, wow. Um, <laugh> not long after having my third baby at this point, um, I started teaching the child birthing classes at that hospital and someone told me, Hey, have you ever thought about being an I B C L C? You've had, you know, all these hours of helping women with breastfeeding over the last five years. And I was like, what is that
Eva (03:34):
<laugh>? Yeah.
Brie (03:35):
I've never even heard of this. Um, I got my I B C L C, um, and now I've transitioned to working in private practice, which has been amazing. Um, you know, if you are listening to this and you've ever worked a 12 hour night shift, it is rough <laugh>. Yeah. If you're a nurse out there listening to this, um, it is so hard, especially when you go home and you have kids to take care of the next day. It was a really hard job. And so anyone who does that, like I, I like hats off to you because that was a really hard job. Um, and now what I do is I go and I help clients with breastfeeding in their homes. I teach telehealth like this. I teach classes. And so that's kind of how my nursing degree kind of brought me to breastfeeding. I never expected to teach lactation <laugh> mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but that's all I do now is lactation. Um, and so that's a little bit about how I got here and what I do.
Eva (04:37):
That's amazing. And listen, if it makes you feel any better. When I had my second baby, I had her at like a very well known hospital here in Toronto that does have breastfeeding support with, you know, an I B C L C, but only between the hours of 9:00 AM and 5:00 PM Monday through Friday. And I gave Friday night at 7:30 PM Right. So, um, yeah, apparently <laugh> apparently babies are only born during business hours at this hospital. And if you happen to give birth outside of business hours, you're not gonna get any breastfeeding help. So, um, yeah. I, I, I can definitely relate to that to a degree. So, so right now you work with, tell us a little bit about like the practice that you have. You know, what, what types of moms do you help with? What kinds of breastfeeding challenges, you know, do they have? Um, and what does that all look like?
Brie (05:28):
Yeah, so I work with families all over the world. That's the cool thing about telehealth. Before covid, um, I didn't do a lot of telehealth. Um, like, um, when I say telehealth, what I mean is just consulting with clients over secure video. From what I've heard, that can mean a different thing in Canada,
Eva (05:46):
<laugh>
Brie (05:47):
Right. Tele can mean a different thing. So, so for your listeners who are in Canada who are listening to that, it just means like, we meet over secure video. Yeah. Before covid I would just go meet with in their home all the time here in, in northern Utah. But Covid actually really pushed me in new ways to learn how to meet with clients over secure video and how to assess latch, how to assess their baby's oral anatomy. And it's really cool what we can accomplish even over secure video. So I meet with clients all over the world often, even all over the United States. Um, the really fun thing that I'm excited about is there are a handful of insurances that I accept. So the majority of my clients right now get free consultations. They don't have to. That's
Eva (06:30):
Amazing.
Brie (06:31):
And their insurance covers, I wish it was like that everywhere. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for every insurance or all over the world, we're working towards it. I don't know. Hopefully we'll get there one day.
Eva (06:41):
<laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>.
Brie (06:43):
But yes, I do meet one-on-one. I have a team of IV CSDs who also, um, meet with clients and help them just crush their lactation goals all the way from pregnancy. Cuz it's best to start preparing for breastfeeding when you're still pregnant, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the, the right, the right term to learn, uh, the right time to learn is not when they hand you a brand new baby
Eva (07:03):
<laugh>. Yeah.
Brie (07:04):
Because sometimes unexpected things happen. Right. And babies don't always latch well from the beginning. And, and so you have to have a base knowledge from the very beginning. Um, so that when unexpected things do come up, cuz that's pretty much what parenthood is, right? Yeah. It's just one expect unexpected event after another <laugh> like, oh, we're prepared. Oh no, this bump on the road just came up. So I work with clients all the way from pregnancy through the first couple years. Um, even through weaning, sometimes people don't realize that lactation consultants can help you stop breastfeeding mm-hmm. <affirmative> just as much as we help you start breastfeeding, which I know is what we're gonna talk about today. Yes,
Eva (07:40):
Yes. Which, yeah. Which is like a great segue into today's topic, which is, you know, how to go about stopping breastfeeding, um, when you are ready, whether it's daytime, nighttime, both. So I guess the first question is, you know how, I mean, when it comes to, you know, deciding when to stop breastfeeding, how do you think if a mom is unsure, how do you guide that mom if she's saying like, uh, I don't know if I wanna continue to go. Do you have any words of wisdom, I guess, having helped so many women in this situation?
Brie (08:14):
Yeah. What I've learned first is to kind of explore the emotional side of weaning first. Because I've had many clients who I meet with them and they say, Hey, I really want to wean. And as we start talking more and kind of digging a little bit deeper, sometimes they get a little emotional and they're like, I don't, I, I don't even wanna stop, but I just feel pressured. My baby just turned one mm-hmm. <affirmative> and I feel like I'm supposed to stop breastfeeding at one, but I, I really like breastfeeding and I don't wanna stop. And, and so then we gotta explore that
Eva (08:48):
<laugh>, see
Brie (08:49):
What's going on there. The cool thing about breastfeeding and also the interesting part, is it a dyad meaning that there's two people involved, right? Right. There's a person who's breastfeeding and then there's a baby and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, each one of those is 50% of the puzzle. So when it comes to weaning, you have to look at both sides, right? Um, maybe on the one side you have a mom who's feeling pressured, like she needs to ween, but the baby doesn't wanna stop at all. Right? Yeah. The baby wants to keep breastfeeding. Or maybe on the other hand, like you can have the opposite situa situation where the baby's less interested, but the mom's like, no, come on, keep breastfeeding. So we always have to look at the full picture and say mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. Are you, first of all, you're truly ready to ween <laugh>. Yeah. Because if you're just feeling pressured, that's, that's a separate issue.
(09:40)
Everyone weans at different times. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I've helped people, um, wean early on Right. For different reasons. Maybe. Um, they had to unexpectedly wean early when their baby was a few months mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and I've helped people wean when their baby is a couple years old and it looks so different, right? For every family. There's no one size fits all, but you really have to explore first. Why do you want to wean? Are, are you really wanting to wean or do you just fill that pressure to, so I always just tell my clients, Hey, just start by just writing. Which sounds silly, but, but I want them to be clear on what their goals are so that I can help move them towards their goals. So I'll say, okay, just grab a piece of paper and a pen and just start writing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I feel like I need to wing that makes me feel sad.
(10:26)
Whatever comes to their mind, I tell 'em, like, just write it, write it, write it. Don't censor it. Don't think, oh, I shouldn't feel that way. I shouldn't think that way. Just write and write and write. And then a lot of times when we come back for their second consultation, they're really clear like, Hey, actually when I thought it through, um, instead of, you know, feeding six times, maybe I wanna do three or four. So how can we work towards that? And then that's their goal for the next few months. So that's the first step. Get clear on your goals, <laugh>.
Eva (10:54):
Yeah. No, and you know what, it's, so, it's so great that you mentioned it because, you know, I'll just add something else that I get a lot of clients that will say, oh, I, or, or initial people who, you know, initial prospects who reach out and will say to me, um, oh my gosh, I I need to wean this baby from breastfeeding. You know, it's just so crazy and unmanageable. And what they're referring to is the fact that this baby is nursing not only all day, but all night as well. And so, you know, the underlying assumption behind their desire to ween is to get sleep, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I make sure to say to them, you know, listen, your baby does not need to be eating, you know, six times a night anymore. You know, d we're not dealing with a newborn here.
(11:36)
Right? So whether it's like an infant, a a younger infant, an older infant, a a toddler, they don't need to be waking up and nursing that many times. And so I clarified to them, I said, listen, if you wanna wean from breastfeeding completely, I one a hundred percent support you, that's your decision. But I do just wanna clarify that if you wanna get your little one sleeping through the night, you don't have to wean from daytime fees if you don't have to. Right. And sometimes they'll say, oh yeah, I know, but I'm just, I'm just done with it, you know, regardless. And then I'll say, oh, okay, no problem. But then I'll have just as many other moms go, oh, really? You mean I don't have to, I thought that I had to get rid of breastfeeding completely in order to get my kids sleeping through the night because she's waking up in nursing all night long. Right. And I said, listen, and I explained that breastfeeding and breastfeeding to sleep are two completely different things. So we can keep the daytime breastfeeding if you want, while eliminating the breastfeeding to sleep so you can feel like a normal functioning human again. Um, and I tell them, listen, like you can nurse your kid until they're in kindergarten for all I care, <laugh> if, and, and still keep your goal of sleeping through the night as well. So that seems to, you know, blow a lot of people's minds also.
Brie (12:49):
They're like, what? I can breastfeed and sleep <laugh>. Yeah. I didn't think, well, I can have both of those. Right. You're, it's not an all or nothing. No. When it comes to breastfeeding, there's sometimes we think like, oh, I, oh, I have to exclusively breastfeed or not breastfeed at all. As an example. It's like, let's no, you can actually land somewhere in between. And now like some people exclusively pump and that works great for them. There's no one size fits all.
Eva (13:13):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> a hundred percent. So let's, let's talk about, I guess, you know, the moms of the infants, like 12 months or under, you know, who have decided like, I want to either, you know, limit the amount that I'm offering them during the day. I wanna start supplementing with bottles, um, or I'm just really feeling done for whatever reason. Um, what would you say is the best way, where, where does one start when it comes to weaning a baby in that age range from breastfeeding,
Brie (13:46):
Uh, under a year is what you're saying? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So first I would tell that parent, um, kind of like you said before, just, just so that you know, before we start this process, just know that a baby's main source of nutrition in that first year of life is either breast milk, donor milk or formula. It has to be one of those mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Because sometimes people think like, oh, my baby's six months old now they're taking some solids and they kind of prefer that, so I'm just gonna stop breastfeeding. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And what they don't realize is that, and sometimes it's too late once their supply is gone, oh crap. Now I have to supplement with donor milk or formula. It has to be one of those too. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> before a year. And sometimes when people hear that, they're like, oh, that sounds like a pain, or that sounds expensive, <laugh>.
(14:36)
Yeah, maybe, maybe. I don't wanna do that after all. So I get really clear about that before a year. Um, and then past that, weaning looks the same, whether it's a younger baby or an older baby. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's all about slow and steady. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, there's no fast. And it's really that way with almost anything that you do with the baby. Yeah. We like to do things gradually. We like to take baby steps. That's not only great to transition your baby, but also you have to remember with weaning your transitioning your body. Yes. So we know that breast work on supply and demand. Right. Whatever you ask of your body, it's like, okay, that's how much milk you're asking. This is how much we're gonna make. Yeah. So we don't like quick changes. So gradual weening is always better than abrupt, weening. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> because we need to give your body time to adjust.
(15:27)
If you've been beating a baby, especially if it's a younger baby, you're still feeding eight times, 10 times a day. 12. I don't, I don't know what looks that 24-hour period. Yeah. In that 24-hour period, however many times you're feeding, um, you're still feeding frequently. So you can't go from 10 feeds a day. And then tomorrow I'll just be like, well I just wanna be done by tomorrow, so I'm gonna have my feet. Yeah. <laugh> it needs to be gradual. So I usually say like, choose one feeding slowly, cut that out, give it two to three days and then go to the next one. And, and for my clients with oversupply, that's an even slower process. Right. Cause you have to be careful. If you're getting clogged ducks that can lead to mastitis, then that's not a fun road to go down. <laugh>. Yeah. We don't like that road.
(16:15)
No. So when my clients are weaning, I teach them breast massage. I teach them how to be familiar with their breasts. Um, just to make sure that we're going nice and slow and slowly coming down, um, from making milk to not making milk. So it's always gradual. And that's also works well for your baby. It's a big transition. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for your baby. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. Um, and another thing I would add to this is if your baby is less than a year old, I really want you to consider that your baby, um, likely is not gonna self wean before a year. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're not gonna self wean. There's a, a big difference between a distracted baby and a, a baby who is ready to wean mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're two different, very two very different things. Yeah. And what studies have shown us is that babies younger than 18 months are not likely to wean themselves.
(17:07)
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So what that means is <laugh>, you know, for example, sometimes they'll have a client with a four month old. This distraction usually starts like four months, five months. Yeah. Because babies are becoming more awake, more interested in their world. Yes. I mean, you probably know a lot of this like and how it relates to sleep, right? Yes. And things that can happen around that time with possibly sleep regression. I mean, it's just a big transition time where babies are like, oh, what's going on over there? Is that the dog walking? What's is someone talking over there and they pop off and they look around. And sometimes parents can misinterpret that as, oh, they're not interested in the breast anymore. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But really they're just distracted. And a lot of times babies at that age are also very efficient at the breast. Sometimes they can drain the breast in five minutes flat. Yeah. They can drain the breast. So it's more about frequent, just short, frequent feeds sometimes as you're getting through that distraction phase. Um, but that's very different than self-lead. It's important to know the difference between those two.
Eva (18:10):
Right, right. Right. And so when someone, I guess regardless of whether or not it's a younger baby or older baby, you know, decides, okay, I'm gonna start gradually, you know, decreasing the size and then cutting these feeds out one at a time. Are there particular feeds that you suggest that they start with first?
Brie (18:27):
Uhhuh <affirmative>. So for the most part, we usually start with daytime feed. If they're working towards totally weaning, then we usually start with daytime feeds mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and then transition to middle of the night. No, that doesn't look the same for everyone because maybe someone's weaning and their baby's already sleeping through the night. Yeah. And so they don't need to cut out night feeds. So again, this will look different for everyone, but, um, especially my clients with, with older kids, I say, okay, let's start for the daytime feeds first. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so that's usually like the middle of the day. And then you can transition to the middle of the night. Now this is a slow process. You wanna give yourself a long runway. Yeah. So maybe you cut out one feed and again, you give it at least two to three days. Yeah. And then you focus on the next one. I suggest to leave the very first in the morning and the very last before bed feeds until very last to take out. Cuz those are usually the most loved <laugh>
Eva (19:31):
Mm-hmm.
Brie (19:31):
<affirmative>. Right. They'll start with the low hanging fruit. Right. Yeah. Like maybe that one in the middle of the day that you are like, eh, this one we can let this one go first. Start with that one first and then go from there.
Eva (19:43):
Right. And what if, what if the baby is, let's say still under one year and it's not taking a bottle yet. Do you feel like getting the baby used to drinking from a bottle should be like step zero to beginning this stage so that the mom is not going well, crap, now what do I do? Because Yeah. He still needs formula or donor milk and won't drink from this bottle.
Brie (20:10):
Right. Well, yes. I think that that would be a great first step. <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>. Otherwise you might find yourself in a really hard place. Cuz like I said, your baby's main source of nutrition first year, your own breast milk. Maybe, you know, I have some clients who have pumped and they have enough breast milk to last them for a month, so they pull from their own freezer stash or donor milk formula. But yeah, you, you're gonna wanna have that in place because your baby is reliant on that for the first year. Right. And you may want to introduce a bottle. I find that the magic window for introducing a bottle is three to four weeks. That's a great time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> a bottle. So if your baby's older, um, even if your baby's four to six months, you may have trouble giving the bottle. You may just wanna skip over the bottle altogether and go to, um, babies even do really well with open cups and countries all over the world. They give even newborns open cups. Wow. And they just tip it up. It's not like you would imagine it's not just like you tip it up and they're just like, gulp, gulp. Not like a glass
Eva (21:12):
<laugh>.
Brie (21:12):
Yeah. Yeah. It's more like you tip it up and they kinda like lap it up like a little cat <laugh>. It's a little bit slower like that. Sometimes you can go to sippy cups or, uh, a straw cup. So it, it really depends on the age of the baby. But yeah, you're definitely gonna wanna have that in place. Yeah. <laugh>.
Eva (21:32):
Well, it's interesting you say that about the open cup because I'll tell you, like when I was, when my son was born and he was, you know, just a few days old and I was, you know, still trying to get him to, to breastfeed, he ended up working out great. But it was, you know, those first few days, there was that learning curve for the both of us. Um, what I found really, really helped was, um, to before when I knew that he was getting hungry, but he was already, I guess maybe he was like already getting too cranky that if I tried putting him on the breast, he would just get even more frustrated. So what I would do was I would give him like a little open cup of like, I can't remember if it was, if I, I don't think I was even pumping it at the time. I think it was like a little bit of formula that I would give him to just sort of take the edge off things and then he would drink it. It was, you know, like maybe a teaspoon, but then it would, it would calm him down enough so that I could then go and like get him to latch on properly. But, um, you're absolutely right. Like, as I'm reflecting on this, I'm going, oh yeah, JJ was drinking from a cup when he was two days old.
Brie (22:38):
<laugh>. Yeah. Tiny. Yeah. Yeah. And that's so smart because nobody wants to learn something new, including young babies when they're sleepy and when they're hungry. Right. Like totally they're hungry. <laugh>. Yeah. One of us like to learn new things when we're hungry and sleepy. No. So yeah, that's smart to just give a little snack and then try it
Eva (22:55):
Best. Right. And then it's like, okay, now it's, now it's time to learn. Um, and I'll tell you, it's, it's interesting, you know, that you say, you know, to focus on those like middle of the daytime feeds, you know, first, um, for me when, when I have, when that client comes to me and says, my baby is nursing, you know, all day and all night, and I'm just feeling done with a capital D, what I like to start off with is, is actually tackling, like how that baby is falling asleep initially. Because usually in that situation, when they're reaching out to me, let's say like the other day, I, I just finished working with a mom of a 13 month old whose little one was nursing to sleep and literally waking up, you know, five times a night and the mom just had it. And so for us, step number one was, well, let's teach this baby how to fall asleep without nursing, you know, independently so that we can then, you know, start to gradually not only gradually decrease the amount that they're, you know, eating at nights, but also teach them how to learn how to fall back to sleep without nursing.
(24:00)
So that, you know, then from there we're sort of like at that halfway point when it comes to, you know, the weaning completely. Um, so I guess I see that as like a step zero, you know, I guess in the context of a baby who wa like a mom who wants to, wants to wean, but like also wants to get, you know, her little one sleeping like a champ. Um, if there's a lot of feeds happening at night, sometimes, I don't know what your opinion is on this, but like sometimes what I'd like to do is, you know, transfer begin to like gradually transfer those calories to the day first so that we can at least get, you know, mom that sleep first and then from there be able to work on weaning those daytime feeds, I guess starting with the middle of the day.
Brie (24:42):
Yeah. I mean, I guess that's a great example how it's not one size fits all. Yeah. Um, because you're right, if they're feeding less at night, they might transfer to the day, but if someone's overall goal is to not be feeding more during the day, then maybe that's not a good goal for them. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's just a good example of like how there's no one size fits all.
Eva (25:01):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. A hundred, a hundred percent. And you know what, and sometimes, as I said, sometimes what'll happen is those moms that tell me, no, no, no, like, I wanna wean from everything I'm done, done, done. Once we get the ba that baby weaned from those night feeds and mom is actually sleeping and feeling like a normal functioning human sometimes she then goes on, you know, to wean from those daytime feeds. Sometimes she'll say, actually, you know what? This isn't so bad after all. Now this actually feels manageable. Now I feel like I can have my cake and eat it too. Um, because when I say transfer the calories, sometimes it means to literally take those milk calories from the nighttime to the daytime. Sometimes it means transferring them in in terms of like replacing those calories with let's say solid food if this is like a 13, 14 month old.
(25:49)
Right? Yeah. So that's, that's what it could mean. But yeah, you're absolutely right. Like it really looks different, you know, for, for so many people. Um, you know, depending on the age and stage of the baby, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what if we're now talking about a toddler, let's say like two age, two plus who are walking, talking Yeah. Have opinions, you know, about the matter. Um, you know, they, they're, they're putting their foot down, they're sitting at the boardroom table and wanna have their say <laugh> and, you know, maybe they're not in full agreements, you know, how do you have any advice or tips for, you know, moms dealing with the, the toddlers that don't wanna wean, but mom wants to wean
Brie (26:32):
Totally different world, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because you're exactly right, these little humans have a huge personality <laugh>. Yeah. And they do have a say in this, right? They are half puzzle, but if the mom is truly done, she can help guide, right? She can help guide and be like, oh, actually we're doing this now. And that's totally fine to do. So at this age it looks so different because you're talking through with them and maybe they don't fully understand everything, but you're still having a conversation, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> like, oh, when the sun goes to sleep, the milky go to sleep too, right? Yeah. If that's what it looks like, if that's what you're cutting out and you can talk about it. Um, and then you as the parent, you are doing things to make yourself not as accessible because you find like, oh, when I sit in this chair, that's where my two-year-old likes to come and nurse mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
(27:22)
So I'm not gonna sit in this chair during the day. Yeah. Because maybe that's what they're working on that time is cutting out daytime feeds, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we usually say, don't offer, don't refuse. Just distract. Yeah. Two girls are great at distraction <laugh>. Yeah. They're, they're like, oh, what's going on over there? Oh, there's a fun activity. Or We're going to the park. Oh, we're going to do this. Okay, great. We'll do that instead. So don't offer, don't refuse, just distract and don't make yourself acc accept, uh, uh, accessible. So maybe you don't wear clothing that makes your breasts as easy to get to <laugh>. Yeah. Especially with night weaning. Maybe you don't wear a top where your baby can just have access right away. Yeah. Or your toddler, right? Mm-hmm. I guess mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is more of a toddler. I mean, my toddlers are still my babies, so <laugh> Yeah, of course.
(28:10)
They're, they're still babies. Uhhuh <affirmative>. So, so that's what it can be like. Um, you know, I've heard so many stories of clients who are like, oh, I just put band-aids on and told 'em like, milky is all gone Now if your baby's two, maybe you can wean a little bit faster because maybe you were just weaning or maybe you were just nursing morning and night. Yeah. And that's all you were doing. So maybe you can do it a little bit faster, but while you're going through this process, again, you're being very familiar with your breasts. Um, when you get in the shower, like fill all the way around, like, oh, there's a little hard spot right there. Okay. What's going on? Let's gently massage that out. Anytime we work with the breasts, very soft. Um, the pressure of petting a cat <laugh>. Yeah. Which sounds so weird, but that's the pressure that we're going for because breasts are very glandular.
(28:59)
We don't wanna do any damage. So, you know, I tell my clients too, to really be familiar, watch for clogged ducks and just slowly bring down the process if it has to be abrupt. You know, sometimes there's situations where a client is going in for, um, I mean, it could be something like chemotherapy or something where they have to stop like immediately and they have to just stop it quick with their toddler and or their younger baby. And that's just how it is. And we still do our best to slowly bring it down. Right? Maybe a breast pump is used to slowly bring it down. Um, but if possible, gradual is always better. Distract don't offer, don't refuse is the best for babies that are a little bit older.
Eva (29:43):
Right. And so, I, I, I'll tell you, I have a couple clients, you know, who have told me, um, that, uh, that, you know, their plan in terms of weaning, you know, their older baby or toddler is to go away with their girlfriends for a weekend and leave the baby with dad and then hope that, and that when they go 48 to 72 hours without nursing, that you know, they'll be magically weaned, <laugh>. Does that concern you, does that plan concern you in terms of like, is it a re does it sound like a great idea in theory, but is it in actuality a recipe for mastitis, you know, c clogged ducks, et cetera?
Brie (30:22):
I mean, I guess you could make it work with some planning, like if you kind of slowly ramp things down. And also if you've, if you had a plan in place before you left, like that poor dad, if that baby's just been at the breast <laugh> and then mom takes off
Eva (30:36):
Peace out
Brie (30:36):
<laugh>. Yeah. Sometimes like people will say like, oh, if they're, if they're desperate enough, like they will take a bottle or they will take a sippy cup, that's not always the case, right? Yeah. Like babies can scream and like I said, they have a personality. Yeah. So that poor dad, like what if he's just home with this screaming baby <laugh>? Yeah. Depending on the age of the baby. So I think you would definitely need a better plan in place before you go. Yeah. And if you were still nursing before you left or pumping, then you're gonna have to take your breast pump. You're gonna have to slowly come down. You're gonna have to slowly cut out minutes, slowly cut out feeds and slowly bring your body down cold Turkey. Not a good plan <laugh>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> not a good plan. Right.
Eva (31:22):
What if though, we're just dealing with a mom who is nursing morning and night and li like, like morning and bedtime, right? Can those feeds, you know, usually be removed in a cold Turkey manner? Or do you still find that it's beneficial to decrease them gradually?
Brie (31:40):
Um, for both people, it's gonna be gradual. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> now it kind of depends on where your supply is at, because I do have some clients who have oversupply and it takes so much <laugh>. Yeah. So much effort. Um, especially, um, I had some clients where their baby is sleeping through the night and they are just bursting with milk all night long that they're, oh my gosh, the pump. And they're like, this is the worst. This is the piss because my baby is sleeping and I'm having to wake up to pump because I have so much milk. Right. That can happen. And so for those clients, like, yes, slow, slow, slow, we gotta do it slow. Um, you know, others, if their baby's older, they were just doing it twice a day, maybe they could mm-hmm. <affirmative> just do like couple days and just be totally done. Um, you know, sometimes for oversupply that we have to do it even slower. Sometimes I'll, um, have my clients add in things like, um, peppermint or essential oil or like the no more milk tea that has herbs in it, which helps to decrease supply. Sometimes we need other things on hand because sometimes it's like trying to turn off a fire hydrant, <laugh>. Yeah. Like the milk just doesn't want
Eva (32:51):
Us gone. It just keeps coming out for, so I'm curious for the moms who have that oversupply who, you know, whose baby is now sleeping through the night and they're waking up feeling like they've got these bursting water balloons, not knowing what to do, like how long does it often take their body to adjust to that new demand supply system?
Brie (33:12):
Oh, it can be weeks. It can be weeks. Really? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yep. And so sometimes, like I said, we have to bring out the big guns and be like, okay, yeah. What else can we add in to help decrease your supply? Because even just a little bit less stimulation, it takes their body weeks to even just cut down like a couple minutes at a time. So yeah, those, sometimes people, you know, when they're starting out with nursing, they're like, oh my gosh, it would be a dream to have so much milk. Well, there really are some problems that come along with oversupply. Yeah. It, it can be a pain and <laugh>. Yeah. So, you know, there's people who are like, oh, I want a great milk supply, so I'm gonna breastfeed, I'm gonna pump, I'm just gonna do everything. I'm just gonna like, be removing milk like crazy. Well, you can push yourself into oversupply and it's not, not the best place to be. The sweet spot to be is just enough milk for your baby with like an ounce or two to spare. Yeah. Like, no more than that. Even if it's just like a half ounce to an ounce, more to spare, that's a sweet spot to be in.
Eva (34:15):
Yeah. I mean, even just, I, I have a, you know, a good friends of mine who always had an oversupply, and so whenever she would nurse her babies, she had to nurse them like on an incline. Yeah. <laugh>. Like, she had to nurse them, like sort of sitting back because otherwise, like her, her letdown was so strong that the baby would just get like so frustrated by all this milk and not know what to do with themselves. And so, you know, it just makes, it's, it's not so gl it's not as glamorous as it sounds to have like mm-hmm. <affirmative> so much milk that you could feed triplets. I guess in theory it sounds lovely, but the practicalities of it mean that yeah, you can't just sit down and nurse your baby, you have to be in a certain position, otherwise it doesn't work.
Brie (34:58):
Right. Yeah. Yep. Not a good place to be. So, so Yep. Just enough little bit despair. That's where we wanna land <laugh>.
Eva (35:06):
Okay. Okay. Amazing. So are there, you know, and then the, I guess the last question for you is, you know, when a mom has decided that weaning is what she wants to do, but it still feels, you know, emotionally hard for her regardless, you know, what kind of like words of wisdom or encouragement do you offer her? Because I'm sure it also affects her hormonally Right. You know, as she is weaning, even if you're doing so, you know, gradually it's still sort of, you know, is going to affect it. It's gonna, it's gonna affect you from that angle as well. So, um, you know, what kind of, what, what would those words of encouragement, you know, look like?
Brie (35:48):
Yeah. It is a big transition because oxytocin is high while you're breastfeeding, prolactin is high while you're breastfeeding. And so those do drop off after you're done. And it is a big shift in hormones, not as big as a shift as after you have a baby and you deliver your placenta. That's a giant shift in hormones. Yeah. <laugh>. Which I think we all can be like, oh yeah, it did feel like I jumped off an emotional cliff after totally <laugh> after giving birth. But yes, it is a big change. And so just acknowledging that, you know, this was your journey and even if you're weaning sooner than you planned, it's like that was your journey and you still, you still provided milk for your baby. And that was amazing. And just honoring that I'm a big band of, again, just like writing, like everything that's like up here in your brain, there's something so powerful about seeing, actually seeing the words and writing it on paper is huge.
(36:44)
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> not even just like typing it and making a note. There's something about physically writing it with a pen or pencil and seeing it on paper. Um, I have so many clients who will write a note to their baby, they'll just write like a long note to their baby. Yeah. Like, Hey, this was great. We are done now. And just like processing through that. Um, I love options as well, um, like making breast milk jewelry. Mm-hmm. Like for something to keep with you, there's so many op options, but just acknowledging that yes, this is not only a big shift physically for your body, but emotionally as well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is, this is very different. And also just finding other ways to still bond with your baby Yeah. And still have that closeness. Like, Hey, maybe we don't nurse, you know, before bed, but maybe we sing songs or read books. Yeah.
Eva (37:36):
Or we,
Brie (37:37):
Or I baby wear, or we go on a walk and, or we take a bath. Um, you can even take a bath with your baby. It's so nice. Yeah. Like, lay your baby on your chest, have that time together, maybe find other things where you're still finding that bonding, that comfort to kind of fill in that gap.
Eva (37:54):
Right. No, I think that's so huge because you see, especially for the moms where breastfeeding didn't work out for, you know, numerous reasons baby never latched Well, mom's supply never got up. It was just, you know, a source of stress and anxiety and exhaustion and, you know, and then they, they end up transitioning to bottles a lot earlier than they would think. A lot of them I know just, you know, having spoken to them and me, me being one of those moms with my first baby, it can feel, you can feel so distraught because, you know, you're constantly hearing this messaging that says, you know, that breastfeeding is this like wonderful bonding opportunity, but which it is, don't get me wrong. You know, having breastfed my other two, I can say that, but I think what that messaging implies is that it's the only way that you can bond with your baby when the reality is that it's one way that you can bond, but there are so many other ways that you can bond with your baby when you are not breastfeeding. Um, and you know, and as you said, like story time, you know, bedtime songs, you know, one-on-one, getting on the floor with them, you know, and playing what, what, whatever that might look like depending on the age and stage. Uh, there's so many other ways that you can have that special connection time with your little one that's just special between, you know, you and your, you and your baby. That doesn't have to involve breastfeeding if your breastfeeding journey is over, whatever it's looked like.
Brie (39:22):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. I love that.
Eva (39:24):
So good. Okay. Amazing. No, you know what this is, I'll tell you, it's so refreshing for me to have this type of conversation and, you know, knowing that my listeners are going to hear this because, um, I think that it's really great for, you know, people to get that validation that if they don't want to, you know, breastfeed for all of eternity until their kid weans in kindergarten, um, that you know that that is okay, right. That this is, um, a journey that, as you said, involves two people, but it's like a tango. You know, that both parties need to n need to want this to continue and that it is okay if you have decided at any point in your journey, I am ready to move on, this was great while it lasted. Or maybe it wasn't, maybe it was a struggle from the dairy beginning and you're going, I can't do this anymore. We're gonna move on to something better. You know, that, that, that works best for us. So, um, this is, this is really, really great for a lot of my listeners to hear. So if they need more of you in their life, where can they find you?
Brie (40:30):
Yep. So I hang out, um, on Instagram at Breezy Babies. I have a podcast named Breezy Babies. My website is Breezy Babies. So basically if you Google search anything Breezy Babies <laugh>, that's where you're gonna find me. That's, yep. And the best way, if someone wants to work with me, if they go to my website, there's a link where they can check, um, to see if they are covered through insurance. That would just be for your listeners in the United States at this point, which like I said, is kind of a bummer. I wish that everyone had free consultations cuz there's something so magic when I can meet with a client at least six times. Yeah. And I can work with them over time. I see huge improvements more than just like, okay, here's one time that we're meeting together, let's just fit everything in and do everything we can and good luck <laugh>.
Eva (41:16):
Yeah.
Brie (41:17):
Yeah. But matches how it is right now, but mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, for anyone who is in the United States, they can check for insurance coverage. If, if they are not covered through insurance, that's okay as well. I do accept self-pay, um, even healthcare spending accounts. Do you have those in Canada like healthcare spending or flex spending accounts? Well,
Eva (41:36):
So I mean our, it's an interesting question in that our healthcare system is technically, technically all public. Yes. But that implies that absolutely everything that you need for your healthcare is free. Which it is absolutely not. So meaning anything that re anything that you get inside a hospital or a doctor's office is covered for the most part. But, um, so in other words, when I would go to a breastfeeding clinic in a hospital, it would be covered mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But if I want a lactation consultant to come to my home, it's not gonna be covered by, you know, public healthcare. And so I either need to pay out of pocket or if I happen to have extended health insurance through, you know, an employer or you know, my husband's employer, then um, then it might be covered, you know, in that sense. But always not, not necessarily. So anything that starts with anything that ends with the term therapy is not covered.
Brie (42:33):
Oh, that's, so don't call it therapy <laugh>,
Eva (42:36):
Right? Well, well you have to ba basically, it's almost anything that isn't a doctor or something in a hospital or, um, you know, something that's literally a government system. There are government programs, you know, that help as well. But I am, I'm not, I'm not so sure, you know, how helpful they are in terms of, you know, coming into your home. I think usually that's, you know, out of, out of pocket. So we don't have the kinds of systems that you guys have.
Brie (43:03):
Well, you know, I mean a lot of clients do have to pay out of pocket here in the United States as well. And, you know, that's just how it goes. I do try and make my workshops and my, you know, my courses and everything's super affordable. Another thing your, um, listeners might be interested in is I do even have, um, workshops on like baby biters mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, live workshops that I recorded and then one of my more, um, popular ones is baby gas. Like for babies who are having trouble with pooping, they're going more than a week with pooping. They're having trouble passing gas. And then another thing I love to make is pumping plans for mom going back to work. I know that in Canada it's probably, you get a longer <laugh>,
Eva (43:45):
We get a longer 12, 12 to 18 months, but I don't wanna rub it in
Brie (43:49):
<laugh>. I know, gosh, here in the United States, some people are going back to work at six weeks. It's crazy.
Eva (43:54):
That's archaic.
Brie (43:56):
Yeah. It's so, so crazy. So I love making pumping plans cuz I, myself was a nurse. I got 12 weeks with my first three kids and I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. I got 12 weeks, but it was hard pumping at work. I was using the wrong flange size. So anyway, I look back now, I'm like, listen, if you're returning to work, if you need to pump, if you're away from your baby, if you're going on vacation, have the right pump size. Yeah. This is how often to pump, this is how much to give your baby. And just set it, you know, all out step by step. It's all@breezybabies.com.
Eva (44:29):
Amazing. Okay, well I will be linking everything in the show notes that people can come and find you. Your Instagram content is amazing, so, you know, definitely check Bree out because her, her stuff is awesome. Bree, thank you again for your time. This was amazing. Yeah,
Brie (44:44):
This has been so much fun. Thanks for having me today.
Eva (44:47):
All right. Have a great day everyone.
Eva (44:52):
Thank you everyone for listening, and I hope you all have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with a friend who can benefit from it. I also love hearing from my listener, so feel free to DM me on Instagram at my sleeping baby or send me an email at eva@mysleepingbaby.com. Until next time, have a wonderful restful nights.