Connect Inspire Create
Welcome to Connect Inspire Create: The Mindset & Business Coaching Podcast. I'm Carol Clegg, your host and Progress and Accountability coach for women business owners.
Listen to conversations that delve into taking action, business and life coaching,
creativity, and different ways to foster a positive mindset. Whether you're a woman
solopreneur navigating midlife, seeking to overcome procrastination, or
striving for balance in your business, you'll find an episode or two on this show that will be insightful and motivating. That's the plan!
Let's embark on a journey to connect, inspire, and create a
space where our connections inspire us —welcome to Connect Inspire Create!
Connect Inspire Create
Your Decisions Are Never Solo Acts: Discover the Power of Perspective with Cheryl Einhorn
Cheryl Einhorn is the founder of Decisive, a decision sciences company that trains people and teams in complex problem solving and decision-making skills using the AREA Method. AREA is an evidence-based decision-making system that uniquely controls for and counters cognitive bias to expand knowledge while improving judgment. Cheryl developed AREA during her two decades as an award-winning investigative journalist writing for publications ranging from The New York Times to Foreign Policy Magazine, Barron’s and Harvard Business Review.
Ever wonder why some people make decisions easily while you agonize?
Cheryl Einhorn introduces her AREA method that helps counter cognitive biases while expanding knowledge and improving judgment.
• AREA stands for Absolute information, Relative information, Exploration, and Analysis
• Decision-making isn't a solo activity but built on a collaborative backbone
• Cognitive biases like confirmation bias and liking bias narrow our focus and limit effectiveness
• There are five problem-solver profiles: Adventurer, Detective, Listener, Thinker, and Visionary
• Each profile has different strengths and potential blind spots in decision-making
• Understanding different profiles acts as a "trust accelerator" in relationships
• Seeking input from profiles different from your own can help overcome analysis paralysis
Take the free problem-solver profile quiz at app.areamethod.com and learn more about Cheryl's work at areamethod.com. Look for her upcoming book "The Human Edge: Better Decisions in the Age of AI" in spring 2026.
Where to find Cheryl:
Website: https://www.areamethod.com/
Other links: https://app.areamethod.com/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherylstrausseinhorn/
She is the author of three books: Problem Solved, A Powerful System for Making Complex Decisions with Confidence and Conviction, about personal and professional decision-making, and Investing In Financial Research, A Decision-Making System for Better Results about financial and investment decisions. Her new book about Problem Solver Profiles and the psychology of decision-making, Problem Solver, Maximizing Your Strengths To Make Better Decisions, was published in the Spring of 2023.
Hello from your host, Carol Clegg – your mindset and accountability coach for women coaches, entrepreneurs and small teams!
As a coach or heart led entrepreneur, you know all the right tools and strategies to support your clients—but when it comes to applying them to yourself, it’s easy to get stuck. You might find it hard to prioritize self-care, stay motivated, or maintain a positive mindset, especially when juggling the demands of your business. That’s where I come in.
I love helping women reconnect with their own practices. Together, we’ll explore what’s getting in the way, reignite your motivation, and put the right tools in place to support your well-being.
If you're ready to start prioritizing your own mindset and motivation, take my complimentary “Insights into You” (aka Saboteur discovery assessment” and follow up with a free coaching session to explore your results. Take your assessment here, or visit carolclegg.com for more details.
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Let’s connect on LinkedIn and Instagram, or join my LinkedIn Group Flourish: A Community for Women Business Owners
...Stepping back from it, ARIA is an acronym for the steps of my perspective taking process. And it's the only system out there that is uniquely focused on controlling for encountering these assumptions and judgments, the cognitive biases. And so what it's really looking to do is to expand your knowledge while improving your judgment. It recognizes that we've thought for far too long of decision making as a solo activity. It's my decision alone. Well, that's a myth because at some point there's somebody else who's impacted by it.
SPEAKER_00:So joining me today is my guest, Cheryl Einhorn. And let me share an introduction. Cheryl is the founder of Decisive, a decision sciences company that trains people and teams in complex problem solving and decision-making skills using the ARIA A-R-E-A method. This is an evidence-based decision-making system that uniquely controls for and counters cognitive bias to expand knowledge while improving judgment. Cheryl developed ARIA during her two decades as a fascinating background, award-winning investigative journalist, writing for publications ranging from the New York Times to Foreign Policy Magazine, Barron and Harvard's Business Review. Cheryl is a longtime educator, having taught at Columbia Business School for over a decade and currently teaching at Cornell University's S. C. Johnson School of Business and Cornell Tech. She is the author of three books and will make sure to have those in the show notes so that you can look them up and find them, problem-solved, a powerful system for making complex decisions with confidence and conviction, about personal and professional decision making and investing in financial research, a decision-making system for better results about financial and investment decisions, and then your new book, all about problem-solver profiles. And this is what we're going to dig into a little bit in the psychology of decision making. So we'll make sure to have a link for that that people can find all your books. But that's the official introduction, Cheryl. But I would love to start on a more personal note with you. And welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Carol. Oh, this is I'm looking forward to learning from what you have to share, not only for my listeners, but for myself, as I shared with you. That's part of why I love doing my podcast shows. So if we were sitting over coffee and I asked you what lights you up outside of work, what comes to mind first?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I I love time with friends and family. I love doing things that are outdoors. I like to bake. I love new experiences. And I love noticing some of the small things, the eagle flying overhead, or, you know, the way the breeze moves the leaves. I have a lot of things that I enjoy outside of work.
SPEAKER_00:That sounds beautiful. And I know you shared with me that you live in a beautiful part of the world. So that you get to enjoy nature and get outside. And those moments are, they are so precious that we slow down. Work brings us joy, but there's so many other factors that complete that circle.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And you know, um, having a dog has really helped because you need to get outside. The dogs are in the moment, and it's this wonderful reminder. It makes me think of this Buddhist phrase, we've never been here now before.
SPEAKER_00:And wow. Yeah, that's dishes. Let you say that again.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we've never been here now before. And it's the placement of the now that makes all the difference. It's catching us when we think that we've seen something or done something before. But actually, how can it be so? Because time is always moving forward.
SPEAKER_00:Beautiful. Oh, I definitely I need to again to type that out and put that into the show notes just so that people can reflect and absorb that. But I'd love to, as I said earlier, your background is so fascinating. Journalism, teaching, writing, and now decision sciences. And I'd love to ask you, why do you think that it's important for people to investigate how they make decisions, not just the decisions that they make?
SPEAKER_01:So decision making is how we get to the future. It's actually the only thing that we really have control over in our whole lives are the choices that we make. And yet we don't usually stop to investigate. Well, how do we make those choices? And why is it that we notice over time that some people solve problems differently than we do? Why is it easier with some people to make decisions and much more difficult, almost seeming like friction with others? And so I think it's really important because it is this foundational piece of how we live our lives. And yet, until very recently, it's not something that we've ever taught in our schools. And we don't really learn it in our homes. And so I think it's beginning to be thought of as its own discipline. So if I can help people better understand why they do what they do and how to feel better about making those decisions in their lives, then they can feel greater optimism, courage, confidence, and conviction that they can move well into their good future.
SPEAKER_00:I'd love to, before we dig into, you know, explaining the area method, in your years of research, what has surprised you most about the blind spots that we bring to our choices?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's an excellent question. You know, now we call those blind spots cognitive biases. And these are well-worn mental pathways that try to help our brain conserve energy. And when we're doing something, our brain says to ourselves, you know what, you've done this before, do it this way. Or you've done something like it before, do it this way. And that narrows your focus so that it makes it hard to actually be here now and to be noticing what's going on. And so the reason why it is so important to challenge those things is because we want to think of ourselves as dynamic, being able to continually change and get better over time. And yet, even knowing that these biases exist, it is very difficult to get away from them. But the self-awareness is that first piece. Before we learn how to counter them, we need to actually know what they are. So, to just give a couple examples for your listeners, confirmation bias is when we tend to look for something that will confirm a hypothesis. And what that does is it can ignore disconfirming data, which is far more important. You may have a lot of evidence to support a favorite hypothesis, but if you have one insurmountable hurdle, that's not going to work. Or another one that really gets me all the time is liking bias. I have people that I have an affinity for. And so I tend to give their opinions much more weight than the opinions of other people simply because I like them. So knowing about these things can help us think about for liking bias. If this came from a source that I wasn't familiar with, would I still like this as much? And for confirmation bias, can I actually look to disprove this theory? And that, if I can't disprove it, strengthens my way forward, gives me greater conviction. And if I can disprove it, then I can say to myself, well, thank goodness I've made my mistake before I've made it.
SPEAKER_00:And so that's so interesting. Yeah, just challenging yourself when you spoke about sort of just accepting. I think of something so simple, like choosing to drive a different way. Yes. Changing that up. You know, we just had it's a habit. You get in your car, and this is the way you go, and you never change that up. And you you never challenge yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Or I'll give you another example. For many years, when I was teaching only in person, I would say to my students, every class you have to sit someplace different, a different seat. Now think about the classes that you took when you were in school. Didn't you generally find the part of the room that you like to sit in? And you sat there. Yesterday, I was going to a lecture during the United Nations week on climate change, and I automatically went to the back of the room. And I kind of laughed because that's my comfort. I like to sit in the back. Then I can see everything in front of me. And I had to sort of stop myself and say, you know what? If you do that, you're going to fall into a habit and pattern that you have as very comfortable. Why don't you do something different?
SPEAKER_00:I love that you shared that because for myself, I'm the front of the classroom, the front seat. And if nothing else, just to be able to hear better and focus. I find it distracting if I've got all these people in front of me. So yeah, just to just to be able to zone in and focus. I love that. Cheryl, I'd love for you to explain the area method in simple terms. Sure. So what makes it different from other decision-making frameworks? And you know, obviously it's you you it helps push us past our biases and as you've been talking about, gather more reliable evidence before making these decisions.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so stepping back from it, area is an acronym for the steps of my perspective taking process. And it's the only system out there that is uniquely focused on controlling for encountering these assumptions and judgments, the cognitive biases. And so what it's really looking to do is to expand your knowledge while improving your judgment. It recognizes that we've thought for far too long of decision making as a solo activity. It's my decision alone. Well, that's a myth. Because at some point there's somebody else who's impacted by it. And your decisions have a much better chance of succeeding when you actively include those other people because decisions are generally built on a collaborative backbone. So the steps of the process, it begins with the letter A for absolute information, which is up close on the target of your decision, so that you can see and hear from that perspective before looking at secondary sources. So say you're thinking about switching careers. Let's say you're thinking about nursing versus computer programming. Your absolute information up close on the target of your decision would be what are those two fields? What does, for instance, the nursing association say about itself? What are the responsibilities? What types of jobs does it offer? And similarly with computer programming. Then the R in the word area moves to a new perspective. These are outside sources, but somehow related to the target of the decision. So this might be information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics about each of these fields. Are these fields really growing? What's happening in terms of salary trends? What do experts and outsiders have to say about these two fields? And then exploration, the E, and exploitation are the twin engines of creativity. Now you get beyond document-based sources, and exploration has you identify people and actually interview them about it. Well, what happens day-to-day in the job of nursing? What happens in terms of the fact that the field now asks for many different types of nursing degrees? Does that mean I constantly have to think about going back to school and paying for the education? And for computer programming, have you found that artificial intelligence is disintermediating the field? It's the difference between the map and the terrain. What's actually happening? We may know that something is 10 miles away, but when we actually look and see that you have to drive 40 minutes to get there, exploration is critical. Then exploitation is a brand new part of decision making. Now you can turn inward to think about the data that you've collected, where might you be making these unfounded assumptions and judgments. And so you can really think about and use some creative exercises that I suggest for different ways to analyze the information because you can have one data point that means a variety of different things. And so if you don't look critically at where you're making assumptions and judgments, you may draw the wrong conclusions about the information that you've collected. And then the final A in the word area analysis helps you put all of these pieces back together and it helps you to come to conviction about your decision. So it's really an end-to-end process for how to move through the different perspectives and come away with something that gives you an audit trail of what you've done. We'll ask you to have some types of research that are probably very comfortable for you, but probably also types of research that may be outside your comfort zone, offering you areas for growth and still help you make sure that you can put it all back together so that you can make a decision that can succeed for you.
SPEAKER_00:I tell you what sparked for me was the E. And it's just so interesting because that explore, that you're pulling this all together. It's interesting that you spoke about sort of talking to people in that industry and from that point of view, because my daughter, she's a qualified therapist and she's finding her career path is not what she wants. And she wants to go into marine archaeology, which is part of some of her studying in her degrees. But you can see just as you spoke about those two careers, that they're polar opposites. And a friend recently said to her, you should interview and start talking to people in this new industry to find out what does day-to-day look like? What is it all about? Because, you know, you you might look on paper and this lines up with your degree and your study and your interests. But what if you're stuck behind a desk eight hours a day?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a great recommendation for her of my three books, problem solved would be the right one, because it would take her through the process and she would meet four people solving very different problems, one solving a career problem, so that no matter where her decision-making process takes her, she would be able to see how to engage with the steps because those kinds of decisions they feel very large. And we don't often know what are the individual steps in a thoughtful and rigorous due diligence process.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. You talk about these different profiles. Yeah. So what are they and why do they matter? Can you walk us through these different profiles?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. What I realized when I first introduced Area in my first book that we were just talking about, Problem Solved, that the system works for everybody. But people tended to prefer some parts of the process over others, and they tended to give the greatest credence to the information that came from those parts. So I wondered why are some parts of problem solving easier and more intuitive for people than others? And that is what led me on this research journey into what are the factors that people see and understand differently when problem solving. And by putting this research together, I came up with five archetypes. So if you want to listen for what resonates with you, and then I'll also share with you and with your listeners a place where you can take the problem solver profile quiz that I created for free. So the five archetypes are the adventurer, the detective, the listener, the thinker, and the visionary. So the adventurer, I gave them all fun names because we think in language. We need a lexicon with which to talk about these things. The adventurer is our most confident, optimistic decision maker. She is somebody with a very strong gut. Her inner voice is able to say to her, that's what's next. So she can identify and quickly get to a next step. And a cognitive bias that can get in the way of this kind of an archetype is an optimism bias, which is actually very beautiful. Because she feels very comfortable making decisions. She has a relatively high risk tolerance. She can make a decision, and if it starts to go awry, she optimistically knows there's always the next decision ahead. So she's comfortable with course corrected. The next archetype is the detective. I'm a detective. We are people who like evidence. When you come to me, if you don't have evidence, I can't hear you. It's a shame. But I'm very comfortable with research and I'm very anchored on data. And a blind spot for the detective is the confirmation bias that we spoke about. I know that I can find research, which means I am more likely to be able to substantiate what I prefer in terms of necessarily being able to look for disconfirming data. And the detective overweights data and underweights people sometimes. Our next profile is the listener. She is our collaborative, cooperative decision maker. She knows how to bring people into the conversation. And so when you have a team dynamic, this is somebody who already has a beautiful skill set at gaining perspectives. The problem that the listener can encounter is that she tends to have the least developed inner voice. So one of the cognitive biases for the listener is a liking bias, just as we discussed. She can overweight information that comes from people she has an affinity for. And since she tends to have a trusted group of advisors, this means that she has this group that she automatically goes to. And at times it can inhibit her asking herself first, what is it that I'm really thinking here before she goes and brings others in. So that's very valuable. But a cognitive bias for this kind of archetype is a loss aversion. They would rather mitigate the downside and prevent failure rather than solving for the best possible outcome or the best outcome possible. Finally, we have our visionary. This is the person who brings the big creative original ideas. This is somebody who doesn't need a lot of data. And this is somebody who can end up having a scarcity or a saliency bias. They could have just one data point that something has potential. And that doesn't mean that they necessarily will think about what is practical or what is possible. And so this is somebody who can see the rainbows before we do. But they also generally need somebody behind them to help them fill in the logical progression to get there. So what I hope you can take away is that they're each optimizing for something different. They have different underlying value structures that depend on different data. They move at different speeds, but each has different and beautiful strengths, and each have some cognitive biases associated. And all of this research is in the newest book, which is called Problem Solver.
SPEAKER_00:My goodness, as you described, and I listened to each of those, I went, huh, me, me. So I think I'm definitely going to have to do the assessment, which I will put a link in our show notes so that people can explore.
SPEAKER_01:Definitely. I will give you the link to the quiz is app app.area method, all one word, are method.com.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. Well, I'm absolutely going to pop that in, and I'm sure that our listeners are going to be curious to just explore. Do you ever see a slight crossover between sort of something that's dominant and then a little bit of something that's lying underneath?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So here's what I would say. Of course, all of us have some of each of these, but the dominant one for us is where we've got our comfort zone. So when we're in a perfunctor mode, we're going about our day, that's what you're going to fall back on. That's how you're going to move through the day. And the one that is the least present of the five is an easy area to look for ways to try to develop some of those skills to make you more well-rounded. So although we can certainly cross over, we do tend to stay in our dominant one most of the time. But let's say for your daughter, you were just talking about, let's say she spends a day with somebody in this new field that she's exploring. She may not at all show up the way that she would with you. And that's probably appropriate, right? She's there to observe, she's doing something new, she's a little out of her comfort zone. She may be showing up as a different problem solver profile. And so sometimes it's really good when the profile is interrupted. At other times, we feel uncomfortable in the moment, maybe we feel silenced, or we can't quite hit our stride with the other person that we're working with. That's a time to say, am I not leaning into my own strengths of the way that I normally show up? Why am I experiencing this friction? And that can be a cue to think about are you doing something different? Because you already have strengths inside you that have worked for you that you probably can return to in those moments.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know, one thing that you said right in the beginning that is that is sticking with me is that decision making is within community and it's not solar, and that these elements that we need to be aware of.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we do. And you know, when we're with somebody, I think once you gain this knowledge about problem solver profiles, I found this personally to be transformative. I consider it, I call it sometimes a trust accelerator, because I can be listening for the types of questions somebody's asking. What kind of data do they seem to be seeking? And then I can try to better speak to their incentives so that we can meet in a place where we can better understand each other, right? We never walk down the same street with the person who we're walking with. So if we can find the intersection that gives us entry into how to talk to somebody and how to listen to them, that can really promote stronger relationships. And the ability to really solve problems well together comes in part from that ability to work well with others.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's beautiful, Anna. For somebody who's listening now, who's struggling with overthinking or second guessing, what would be one small step that they could try today in using your methods?
SPEAKER_01:So there's a couple different things. First, seeking out people who solve problems differently from you can help set guardrails. So if you're a thinker and you've really thought about a lot of different types of data and you've done different analyses, see if you can find yourself an adventurer or a visionary. These are both moving forward in different directions. The adventurer to the next logical step, the visionary way outside and opening up to possibility. Both of these give a thinker, for example, something to react to. Because these two other decision archetypes are very competent in different ways. And so instead of the valuable listener or detective who may help you better engage with your process that you've already spent a lot of time on, these other two are so different in their direction that a thinker can react to somebody else's confidence when they've heard the information in a way that could probably be fruitful. Similarly, for a listener who's very good at gathering the wisdom of others, confronting these different opinions with, let's say, a detective who can actually say, I hear you. I think this piece of data is something you may really want to think about. Or coming to a thinker who can say, Did you analyze it this way? can allow the listener to go through a process that honors the fact that she deeply cares about other people while also being able to move her forward in her decision. So each of the other archetypes can move you away from your cognitive biases in a way that can be fruitful. When you have a lot of the same profile, you tend to better engage with the biases. And that's difficult. So it's really having these differences together that bring you the different perspectives. And there's no one perfect combination of problem solver profiles, either in terms of attacking a specific problem or in terms of the types of steps that you would take within problem solving. Any group can make good decisions, but knowing these profiles and how they work together for creative friction is very useful.
SPEAKER_00:I just can imagine that in a team sitting and around the table bringing all this power and information together. And then also from a personal point of view, you know, just approaching things with more ease and flow because we make decisions all the time. And then again, all these negative thoughts that spiral to be able to kind of give yourself permission to come to a space of ease and flow and just bring some, it feels like power tools to the table.
SPEAKER_01:I've certainly felt that way. My mother is an adventurer and I'm a detective. And I wondered for such a long time why it seemed like we weren't in the same conversation. And once I was working on this research, it really gave me a whole toolkit for how to make decisions with my mom in a way that appreciated the different approach and yet also helped us to actually get through the problem solving that we needed to do together, which a detective needs a lot more time than an adventurer. An adventurer wants to know that the decision's being made. They don't really want to sit in a lot of problem solving. And it really trained me to think about I want to come to her when I pretty much know where I am on this, and then allow her to react. We'll pick then the path forward. And we've finished the decision.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that you've you've shortened that journey, come to it with understanding and less conflict.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Because I used to come to her needing my own engagement with the decision. And she would think that the decision was made, but I was still in the problem solving. And so it really gives you tools to think about how to work better with others.
SPEAKER_00:Cheryl, this conversation has been enlightening and wonderful. So thank you so much for sharing with my listeners.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And I make sure that we have all the links to find you. I do have the app and I have aeriamethod.com as the website. LinkedIn, is that the best place for people to connect?
SPEAKER_01:So you can reach out to me there or feel free to reach out to me at areamethod.com. And I will just share with your listeners that I have a new book coming out soon about how to make decisions with artificial intelligence, as this new tool is something that we're all learning about now. And that's going to be called The Human Edge, Better Decisions in the Age of AI. And I hope you'll look for that in the spring of 2026.
SPEAKER_00:Very exciting. Oh, that sounds wonderful. So thanks to everybody for listening to this episode on Connect Inspire Create. And if today's conversation has sparked some inspiration for you, I invite you to share this episode with someone else who you think would enjoy it. And this week, I invite you to embrace your own way of connecting, inspiring, and creating, hence the name of my show. And may your choices bring some ease and flow into your world. And if you're a woman coach or business owner seeking some balance, clarity, and mindset shifts in both your life and your business, I'd love to support you with choices that fit your needs. So through personalized accountability and mental fitness coaching, I invite you to build lifelong habits to quieten negative self talk, deepen self love, and move towards your goals with greater confidence, all in a space that gives you the freedom to choose your path. So I would love to connect with you on LinkedIn or you can visit my website, CarolClegg.com. So until the next time, take care and Cheryl, thank you so much.
