Connect Inspire Create

Connect Through Words: Marketing with Heart and Strategy with Rachel Allen

• Season 6 • Episode 195

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Marketing that converts isn’t about louder posts or cut-and-paste avatars. It’s about words that work like assets—clear, human, and grounded in what buyers actually care about. We sit down with copywriter and strategist Rachel Allen, whose globe-trotting path from a Hong Kong hustle to a thriving practice shaped a no-nonsense approach to positioning, storytelling, and using AI without losing your voice.

We start by dismantling the half-page “ideal client” myth and replace it with psychographics and lived context—beliefs, pressures, and change moments that drive decisions. 

Rachel lays out the four essentials behind every sale

right thing, right person, right time, right way

and explains why you only control a couple of them. 

• shifting from demographics to psychographics
• the four rights and why control is limited
• positioning that states what it is and why it matters
• storytelling as a memory and trust tool
• AI as research and drafting support, not a crutch

To connect with Rachel Allen:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelallenwrites/

https://instagram.com/boltfromthebluecopywriting

Website: https://www.boltfromthebluecopywriting.com/

Hello from your host, Carol Clegg – your accountability business coach for women coaches, entrepreneurs and small teams!

As a coach or heart led entrepreneur, you know all the right tools and strategies to support your clients—but when it comes to applying them to yourself, it’s easy to get stuck. You might find it hard to prioritize self-care, stay motivated, or maintain a positive mindset, especially when juggling the demands of your business. That’s where I come in.

I love helping women reconnect with their own practices. Together, we’ll explore what’s getting in the way, reignite your motivation, and put the right tools in place to support your well-being.

Visit carolclegg.com for more details.

BOOK your ✅ 30-minute complimentary exploration call HERE

Let’s connect on LinkedIn and Instagram, or join my LinkedIn Group Flourish: A Community for Women Business Owners







SPEAKER_00:

Oh, you know, a couple years ago, I got very up on my soapbox about this, and I wrote a little ebook called Kill Your Client Avatar. And I was so frustrated seeing clients who would come to me and they would say, Here's my client avatar, and it's half a page. And I'm like, Okay, friends. Client avatars, when they were created by, you know, marketing teams back in, let's say, 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s, they are the size of phone books. They're huge. They know everything about whoever's buying the detergent or the Coca-Cola or whatever. And so when you come to me when you're like, my person is a woman and she's 35 to 55 and she lives in the suburbs and she likes fruity pebbles for breakfast. And I'm like, that tells me nothing.

SPEAKER_01:

You are listening to Connect, Inspire, Create, a space for you to gather fresh ideas, build momentum, and discover how growth in business and your personal life can feel lighter with clarity and connection. I am Carol Clegg, your host, and I am ready to get started with my wonderful guest, Rochelle Allen. So I am joined by Rochelle today. I've I love this little introduction that kind of came to me from Podmatch, but a fast-thinking, deeply nerdy marketer who spent nearly two decades helping people make words make money. And Rochelle has written for brands big and small across 21 countries, blending data-driven strategy with a refreshing human touch, which is what we are all wanting to hear. And what I love about your story is how it all began, stranded in Hong Kong with just a few dollars and no plan except to figure it out. And that led you to building a thriving copywriting business and a philosophy, and this part's important, that turns marketing into something relational and not robotic. So I'm glad you're listening to us today. Welcome, Rochelle. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation because we are going to explore why so much marketing advice misses the mark, how to position yourself without sounding salesy, and what's really behind our fear of AI. So I know that you are gonna bring some great insight and humor, some light bulb moments. And so let's start off with the journey, Hong Kong. I'm thinking what, maybe 17 years ago. Yeah. Tell us a little, give us a little insight into that.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I had gone to school for journalism and I had graduated into the 2008 recession, and of course, no one was hiring anyone then. And the only job I could get was unpacking boxes at Old Navy on the 5 a.m. shift. And while that's certainly, you know, a worthy pursuit, it wasn't what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. So in my 22-year-old brain, I was like, okay, what's the furthest I can get away from Tennessee? And the answer was Hong Kong. So I bought a plane ticket and I left. But I didn't think about getting a work visa or making a plan before that because, you know, 22. And when I landed there, I was like, well, I have to make rent. And so I start Googling like how to make money online. And shockingly, I found this freelance gig that popped up. And I was absolutely sure it was a scam because I couldn't believe anybody would ever pay me to write. But I was like, you know, what's the worst, you know, case scenario? I'll take it, I'll lose a couple hours of my life, whatever. So I took it and they actually paid me, and I was absolutely hooked. And how long did you stay in Hong Kong for? About two years, I'll told them.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. And then where did that take you to next? Because you talk about so many countries, which is I am a travel lover and I've lived in a lot of different places. And Rochelle and I, before we would started the show, I asked her. I for some reason thought she was in Australia. And you said that's one of the few countries you haven't been to. So there's gotta be a host of others. Have you been to South Africa?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh no, that's also on my list. But I do have a lot of friends there. Yeah, but yeah, give me a couple of the other countries that you lived and worked. Well, I actually moved about every six months throughout my 20s, and so mostly across Europe, but England, Spain, Bulgaria actually really enjoyed Hungary, would move there again in a second. The classics, Italy, Germany, you know, all of those kind of standard places, and then a bit around South America as well, but mostly Europe.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. And then you're I I you started off by saying you wanted the place furthest away from Tennessee, and now you're back in Tennessee.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I so after all of this moving around, I moved to Washington, DC to live with a friend for a while. And then after that, you know, we had both grown up in the in the area around here, and we kind of wanted to be back in the area. So I moved back down here and ended up really in falling back in love with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that and it's funny how sometimes we just need to do that. Um we need to go and spread our wings and explore something else and then come back with so much richness and so much experience. Um, yeah, that's that's wonderful. Well, I know that you have said, you know, make words make money. Let's just jump in. What does that mean for us in 2025? Although we're coming to the end of it. Marketing landscape. Make words make money.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I mean, that's ultimately what marketing is about, right? So, as someone who's been a writer in various forms throughout my entire life, I really wanted to get clear in my tagline of like when I'm doing marketing, it is specifically to use the art of words to make money, to spread influence. You know, I often say words are the technology by which ideas and influence spread, but in marketing specifically, it's because you want people to buy something. And then, of course, in other formats, right, you know, when I write memoir or journalism or whatever else I'm doing, there's a different end goal. But the end goal in marketing always has to be you need these words to perform as a business asset for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I know you've also said, you know, it's marketing, is there are so many elements that come into this. Marketing lights my fire. I think from in my early 20s, that's kind of the direction I thought I would take back in South Africa and and never did. But I'm I never stopped learning. And even as a coach, I still say to people, if you talk to me about marketing, it's like my eyes light up. I love that. So I I love so that's why I'm so excited to share some of these, you know, give here your golden nuggets and some advice. You said 99% of marketing advice sets people up to fail. Right. Can you tell me more about that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, I as you have probably been able to glean, I'm a I'm a big data nerd about everything. I love researching, I love pulling together theories and systems for things. So a couple years ago, I was really looking back on my successes in marketing and other successful campaigns, and I realized that for a sale to happen, you have to have the same four elements in place. So you have to get the right thing in front of the right person at the right time and in the right way. And the problem is you can only control like probably two of those max. Right. Marketing advice is predicated as though you can control all four. And then, of course, when you can't control the flow of time, it's like you didn't want it hard enough, you didn't hustle enough, you didn't follow my system, which the truth is, it's just you you you're not omnipotent, you can't control the world. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And the timing, I mean, I absolutely it's you know, how do you know when somebody's gonna open up something, read something, click on something, you don't control that. All the paid advertising and everything else promises you that direct you in that way. I know I'd love to ask you a little bit more about you had this line that says, You don't have a client avatar, but you have an imaginary friend.

SPEAKER_00:

So walk us through that one. Oh, you know, a couple years ago, I got very up on my soapbox about this, and I wrote a little e-book called Kill Your Client Avatar. And I was so frustrated seeing clients who would who would come to me and they would say, Here's my client avatar, and it's half a page. And I'm like, Okay, friends, client avatars, when they were created by, you know, marketing teams back in let's say 20s, 30s, 50s, 60s, they are the size of phone books. They're huge, they know everything about whoever's buying the detergent or the Coca-Cola or whatever. And so when you come to me when you're like, my person is a woman and she's 35 to 55 and she lives in the suburbs and she likes fruity pebbles for breakfast. And I'm like, that tells me nothing, nothing about this woman. So that's why I encourage people to get rid of that client avatar and then look for psychographics as well, in lieu of that. Because we're so we're taught to think like, okay, well, if I know the demographics, then I can make a guess as to what this person wants. But as you know, people can have very similar demographics, but totally different life experiences. So there could be so many women like me, you know, I'm things about me. I am married, I'm self-employed, I have a cat, right? But I have a friend, very similar demographics. She also has a kid. That's completely changed the trajectory of her life. Another one is still a digital nomad. You know, we all have the same demographics, but the psychographics in our life experience are totally different. So different things speak to us. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I think of you traveling and I think of myself traveling, and then, you know, well, how different that is to somebody who doesn't even hold a passport. Right. And could be, you know, the same demographics. Yeah, so much more depth to go into that client avatar. Um, you'd also talk about positioning 101 and that there's an ingredient that's is missing that often gets ignored.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so this is something I teach uh workshops on, and no one ever thinks they need it. And then they come to the workshop and they're like, oh, that changed everything. So positioning is essentially what something really is and why anybody wants it. And that sounds really simple, but then when you ask people of like, you know, what's your positioning for your service, what's your positioning for your product, a lot of times they go, it's but like, uh, you know, like it has like these benefits or it has this whatever. And I'm like, no, until I, until you can say what it really is, and like, so like the kind of boring name that anybody would know, and then what it really does for someone, and then explain why they care, there's a hollowness at the center of your marketing. And what I've learned over so many years of doing this is that unless you have that positioning statement very clear, people will misunderstand you in ways you could have never imagined.

SPEAKER_01:

It's funny because as you're sharing that, it makes me think of that silly thing with the telephone. And when you sit in a circle and you kind of and and how the whole thing can change, and then you've lost the meaning from the beginning. It's not exactly the same, but it's just as you're saying, if that if you're not positioned properly, you you have no idea as a cli as a consumer what you're getting and what you're gonna get out of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And like the pricing won't make sense, and there may be features that you don't understand, and it's so hard to really think about this because you know why the product is so great or you have the felt sense of why your coaching is so impactful. But then when you try to explain it to someone else, you end up using buzzwords like, oh, I empower people to be their best self. And what I always ask my lovely coaches is, my darling, has anyone ever woken up in the middle of the night and thought, oh, if only could I become empowered to become my best self?

SPEAKER_01:

I am my best self. Right, right, right. Yeah, no, that the cliched words and and and the promises that and and that's you know, it comes also when I think of the elevator speech, and that's it, you know, try and you know, condense that into something, but to something meaningful. Yeah. I don't know. I I'm just digressing a little bit here, but storytelling. How does that because I find I remember things when someone either tells me a story or relates it to a scenario. I had somebody tell me the other day something was like a fire and it was burning and the flames, and then the opposite was no air going into that fire, and it was gray, and and you know, and I was like, huh, okay, that I can visualize that. I it made sense.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. And that's essential. I mean, just the way that our brains are wired, humans are wired for storytelling because, as I'm sure many people will have heard of, mirror neurons activate. So when I'm telling you a story, when I tell you the story of how I moved to Hong Kong and I could describe to you, you know, I'm sitting in the hotel room and I can smell, because I was living in a port, so I can smell the diesel, and I had just gotten a big bag of rice, so my arms were kind of heavy. Your neurons are firing as though you were there. And so it's a way to immerse people and to really stand out. Because if I tell you, you know, some boring LinkedIn thing about myself, like I'm a marketing strategist and CMO, who cares? But if I tell you about how I can, you know, make your words give you an impact in the world, then that's when you're really interested.

SPEAKER_01:

That's yeah, that that's wonderful. Yeah, and I totally agree. I mean, storytelling is a gift, um, and it does certainly take some practice. And some people just have it, they can just use those right words and create, but just like you say, words.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And it's something we all naturally do. We tell stories to our friends all the time. You know, even if you're not like a good storyteller, you can always improve your technique, but you know how to do this. It's a fundamental human thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right. As we're talking about humans, let's switch over briefly to the whole AI thing. Yeah. And you said the marketing apocalypse isn't coming, that AI anxiety is really about the pace of change. Can you expand on that?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. So, about 18 months ago, I had a lot of tech bros telling me I was going to be out of work in a year, and I'm like, guys, I've been through like five internet apocalypses so far. I see what's happening. So, what what this is and what we see with the past things, so for instance, SEO changes, algorithm changes, GDPR. I think it's really an avatar for our uncertainty about the pace of change. So, Ray Kurzweil did a has a famous quote talking about how in every decade of the century we're in, we will experience the same amount of change we experienced in the last century. And that is a huge uptick. It's exponential and it's very disconcerting. The pace of change is too fast for our brains to keep up with. So we latch on to something to be like, why do I feel bad all the time? Why am I anxious all the time? Oh, it's AI coming for my job. Or conversely, I'm so anxious all the time. Oh, please, robot, tell me what to do. So I think that's what it's really about.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that trying to find, I mean, if you think about it, you know, the the human-centered, we look at human-centered marketing and AI as a tool. Right. It's so valuable. And not as a threat. I mean, it you know, it saves time to be able to put you in other places and do other things. You know, it it it to me, I mean, I absolutely I love exploring and using as a support and just bringing in other elements that you just don't have the time for.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, exactly. It's phenomenal for research, it's wonderful for gathering data, it acts as a great marketing intern and it gives you a really great first draft that you can just tear apart. But I where I see people struggling is they either feel insecure about their own ability, and so they just say, like, oh, whatever the robot says is better, let me just, you know, and of course you don't want that. Or they just have this sense of like, oh, well, I have to be everywhere all the time, and it doesn't matter what I'm saying or what I'm doing as long as people see my name. And that doesn't work either.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, no. I mean, these are relationships to me. Marketing is a relationship that you build over time, it really, really is. And you know, the the push in your face and this the salesy stuff. I mean, for LinkedIn, and I I just I can I can't even be bothered anymore that you haven't even got to know what I do or had a look at anything, and you're already pushing something or asking me to book a call with you. And come on, there's a more you wouldn't do that if you were making a friend.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, absolutely. And I mean, I love you know, we call it pushy for a reason. So I often refer to this as relationship physics. If I get physically into your space, you lean back, and it's the same thing anyone naturally does like, whoa, like give me some space. And so you don't want to be the person on the street like shoving flyers in people's hands. You want to be the person who has the presence that draws people to them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Oh, I like that image of yeah, it's sort of shoving and pushing. Absolutely. So as we as we wrap up, I have two things that I'd love to ask you. What is one marketing trend that you're seeing right now that really excites you?

SPEAKER_00:

I am so excited to see the swing back to non-scalable analog work. For high-touch offers, that is basically the only thing that's selling them right now. Anything handwritten, anything sent in the actual mail, something people can touch, that is what is making sales. Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, that's that's something, huh? So that also brings in design and obviously your copy.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Um and somebody has to like be inconvenienced for it, which I think is such a great demonstration of generosity.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Oh, that's exciting. And then I know you've got something else you said. Everybody is spam until they prove otherwise.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. I tell my clients this because they people, I think it's very natural to go into a marketing conversation and really feel like everyone should listen to you. Because, you know, of course, we're all valuable, our voices all matter. But the problem is we're exposed to upwards of 100,000 words per day. And many of those boil down to buy my thing in one way or another. And so you have to show that you are not spam because we're just sort of auto-tuning people out now for very good reason.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So to be able to sort of have that little light bulb moment and for somebody to stop and pull you in, right? Actually, benefit, exactly. I suppose. Well, Rochelle, this has been absolutely wonderful. And I just, yeah, some nuggets that are out there to inspire some people. If anybody wanted to get in touch with you, find out some more. Um I'm guessing you have a couple of courses when you mentioned earlier, that's and obviously to do to yeah, work with you. Where do they find you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you can find me at bolt from the blue copywriting.com. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn, or you can email me at hello at bolt from the blue copywriting.com, and I will email you back like it is the olden times. Wonderful. Great.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I will make sure to have all of those links in the show notes so that people can connect with you straight away. And I just want to say thank you. I appreciate you coming and sharing your knowledge and your stories with my listeners. Thank you so much. This has been absolutely lovely. Thanks, Rochelle. So to those who are listening, I just want to say thank you. And if our conversation has sparked something for you, share it with a friend who you think might enjoy it too. And if you're a woman coach or business owner craving some focus, connection, or a bit of gentle accountability, there are a couple of ways you can work with me. You can join my mindset to momentum, which is a complimentary accountability circle. We meet once a month for group check-ins, or you can explore my 30 minute accountability call package for more personal support. You will find more details at CarolClegg.com, or you can connect with me on LinkedIn. So until the next time, may your choices bring ease and flow into your life.

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Carol Clegg

Host
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Carol Clegg

Host