Who's Really in Charge in Your Bedroom? (And Why It Matters)

Most couples stumble into bed hoping their bodies will figure it out. They don't. Because nobody's talking about who's leading, who's surrendering — or whether you're both fighting for the same role.

Today's guest is Sarah Perry — certified somatic sex educator, sexological body worker, and founder of Haven Space Coaching. She holds a master's in psychology and a background in women, gender, and sexuality studies. Sarah works with people through the body to help them understand what they actually want in bed without the shame.

We're breaking down:

• What dominant and submissive energy actually means (hint: it's not what you think)
• How to figure out your default — and why it changes with different partners
• Why "feminine energy = submissive" is killing your sex life
• The 5-minute game that'll tell you exactly who you are in bed
• How to stop the awkward bedroom guessing game for good

Find Sarah Perry: Instagram: @havenspacecoaching Website: https://www.havenspacecoaching.com/

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Transcript

Rebrand And No Shame Promise

Who Holds Power In Bed

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast formerly known as Locker Room Talk and Shots. The show has a new name, Talk Sex with Annette. But at its core, this is still your locker room. It's where we strip away shame, get curious, and speak the unspoken about sex, kink dating, pleasure, and desire. Around here, nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chat, our most trusted friends, and of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest, and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. Welcome to my podcast where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Let's talk about sex. Cheers. Today's talk sex within that topic is who's in charge in your bedroom? How to find out if you're Dom, sub, or both, and what to do about it. Here's a question nobody asks out loud. Who's actually in charge in your bedroom? Not who initiates, not who picks the position, but who holds the power and who wants to give it up? Because most people have a pull in one direction or the other toward leading, toward surrendering, or toward switching between the two. And most people have never been given permission to figure out which one they are. They just feel it, but they don't know what to do about it. Well, today we are going to change that. My guest is Sarah Perry, certified somatic sex educator, sexological body worker, and founder of Haven Space Coaching in Houston. She holds a master's in psychology, a background in women, gender, and sexuality studies, and she works with people through the body, not just conversation, to help them understand what they actually want and how to access it without shame. Welcome, Sarah. But before we dive in, I have to remind you, I'm over on OnlyFans, and there I'm sharing my sex and intimacy how-tos, demos, and audio guided self-pleasure meditations. You can find me there and at and on Substack under my handle at TalkSex within it. And you can find me everywhere you want to, and Sarah, by scrolling down to the notes section below this episode and checking out all the links. I can't wait to see you there. But for now, Sarah, can you tell my listeners a little bit more about you?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Yeah, thank you for the intro. I have been in the realm of sexuality or sex work in some capacity my entire adult life. And I decided to go further into actually studying these dynamics that I was seeing come up often. And then I got my undergrad in women, gender, and sexuality studies. And that led me on this crazy wild goose chase of learning more about anatomy, about movement, about intentionality. And it changed my life so much that I started a practice, which was never my intention. And now that's how I make my living, and that's how I find my passion. And I even call it going to church when I go into the office to see my clients. I work with all types of people, from people who don't have any major concerns to people who are quadriplegics trying to figure out how it is that they achieve orgasm because they do. So I am in this really magical world of sex healing. And that's part of my goal for this year and joining podcasts and getting the word out is really letting people know that this type of work exists and maybe it could be helpful for them.

Dominance Without Pain Or Props

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I love that. Orgasms for all bodies. Cheers to that. Let's just raise our glasses. Orgasms are for all bodies, people. Absolutely. But what we're talking about today is who's in charge in your bedroom and when. Now, in the kink scene, this is something that's negotiated, but I know not everybody's in the kink scene. This dynamic often also shows up in our bedroom. And when you're not sure who's leading what or who's surrendering, or what the dynamic is, it can make sex a little bit more awkward to navigate. So today, Sarah and I are gonna help you figure out what are you leaning toward right now. We're gonna talk about whether that can change, how you kind of figure it out, and then how we talk about it before we get into the bedroom so that when we enter the bedroom, we know what we're gonna be doing a little bit more clearly. We take out some of that awkward figuring it out in the moment with our partner. That's the goal here is for you to know who you're gonna show up as in the bedroom and to be able to communicate that with your partner and also how to handle it throughout. So let's dive in. I'm ready. Stay to the end because by the end, we're gonna give you those takeaways. You can go through them with your partner. And tonight, when you go into the bedroom, I think you're gonna have some extra fun, right? Absolutely. All right, cheers. Let's talk about who's in charge in your bedroom. Maybe I'll tell you who's in charge in mine if you're lucky. Cheers. Cheers. So when we talk about dominant and submissive, not in the kink world necessarily. We're talking about in the average everyday bedroom. Can you tell my listeners a little bit more about what that actually means to the lay person or the more vanilla person?

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Absolutely. I want to start with making the really clear distinction between dominant and submission and sadism masochism. Okay. Because a lot of times, especially when we don't come from a background in those kinds of terms, we assume that that means I'm gonna tie you up and whip you or some kind of other version of something that's a little more extreme, like that. But it doesn't have to be, right? And that's why we make those distinctions because dominance and submission is really more of like an energetic play than it is a play on limiting movement or causing impact or some kind of impact play. So I want to make that distinction so that it's not as scary as you telling your partner, no, I've actually been in the mood to be choked or get gagged. Or no, it could literally be a different glance, a different type of touch. And that already brings in this dynamic that is a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Absolutely. It's an energy that can come through and touch, movement, words, directions given. And what you're doing is contrasting it to, I think a lot of people in the vanilla world who haven't been educated on the BDSM scene, when they hear dominant and submissive, the first thing that comes to mind is the pleasure-pain dynamic or being tied up and then spanked, or some sort of pain being inflicted by someone else. But that's not at all what we're talking about here now. If you want to get a little spanking, which a lot of vanilla folks won't, that can be thrown in, but it's not essential to what we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yeah. And really launching off of what you're saying, nothing is essential, especially in the kink community. There's been environments that I've been in where I'm trying to rationalize how it's becoming erotic. And sometimes it's not even erotic. Sometimes it's just playful. The kink community, I think, in general, is a way to explore in a playful, safe environment all of these different aspects of who we are that don't get to exist in day-to-day life. The same way that we don't all get to have blue hair to go to our jobs at the law firm. We get to show up differently in our sexual selves with the people we feel safe with in the environments where we feel safe to venture out of our norm. And on a very like neurological level and a really cognitive level, those spaces of exploration can be super healing and even more erotic than what you've been doing the whole time or conditioned to think that you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

When a couple goes into a bedroom, especially when they first start having sex, but even long-term couples who don't talk about sex a lot, we stumble into the bedroom hoping that two bodies will come together and we'll figure it out and it'll be great for both of us. We don't talk about who's in what role, what each of us want. And what we have learned is both of us aren't having fun. There is a huge orgasm gap. And a big part of that is our sex education is not based on pleasure. It's based on reproduction, making babies, right? The vast majority of the sex we have is for pleasure. And a big part of making it more pleasurable for everybody is helping y'all figure out before you get into the bedroom what you both want, how you're both gonna show up there, right? Because, for instance, like I'm this five foot tall little femme girl, but I get into the bedroom and suddenly I think I've got a big dick and I've got, I'm not gonna suddenly be naturally submissive to someone else. So if I go into the bedroom with, you know, some dude who's well, I'm Mr. Masculinity, and we get into the bedroom and we both start trying to have sex. Trust me, it's gotten weird for both of us. We're like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Because energetically, we went in there without figuring out who the other was, and now we're both trying to boss each other around, which can be fun, but clumsy. So starting at figuring out energetically what you lean towards and exploring that and defining that is an opening of a door to more exploration, right? Maybe down the line, one of you is gonna be tying up the other and spinking each other, but this is just figuring out the basics and then seeing how they can grow and change.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Absolutely. I think that there's a little bit of magic that happens when you're able to really sink into the energy you're feeling from that dynamic. And I find that yes, we tend to have patterns, and I use certain like charts and graphs to explore these patterns with people because it's nice to get to know ourselves better. And it's nice to know also what your default is, because if all else fails, come back to default. And it's you know, this spot works. And if that's what you want, you can. But I think knowing for yourself where your curiosities are with that dynamic and the safety to know that with each person, it's different. Like maybe some of your listeners have multiple partners, and their default may not be the default for that one partner.

Find Your Default Through Somatics

SPEAKER_02 13:20

This is gonna tell the listeners where this is going to go. You just got a little hint. But let's start with how do we figure out what our default is? Let's start there. For people out there who are like, great, the sounds fun, the sounds great, but how do I even know what my default is?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

I would say that first of all, my whole practice is based on somatics. And somatics, for those who may not be familiar, is really going into the sensation of your body as an entire holistic entity. That means not separating it into mind, body, spirit. That means all of your thoughts and your feelings and your sensations are actually communicating in synchronicity. So we can make our lives a lot simpler by tuning into the sensation we're feeling and then going with your gut, if you will. But it's not always your gut. Sometimes you're going with the little itch on your arm, right? Or the distractions that are showing up for us. So the first exercise that I would tell people to do if they're trying to figure out what comes natural for them, would be start thinking, start imagining fantasy roles that are really nuanced, that are you can picture something as easily as are you raising your eyes to look up at someone? How is someone touching your face? How is someone touching your chin? And then in those moments, explore what I am feeling in my body? Does my body feel leaning towards this? Do I feel genital arousal? It's my pussy showing up. And if it's not, totally cool. That's good to know. There are also some things you're gonna feel that don't feel good or nothing. There are times that you will feel things that you don't want to feel. And then you need to take that as a lesson too. Maybe that's not a space that feels safe for me today or ever. And learning to kind of check in with yourself, I think, is really the basis of consent. It's like, where am I? What's showing up for me? Is every cell in my body happy to be in this situation right now?

SPEAKER_02 15:34

So you're saying to go through a visualization exercise or exercises, imagine, start with fantasy. You're with whoever you're wanting to be with, and picturing them either touching you in a certain way or you touching them in a certain way, and seeing if that excites, seeing if your pussy shows up. I like that. If it get the little tingles, does it turn you on or turn you off? I think another interesting thing that came to mind when you brought that up is imagining a scenario. So, for instance, the first kiss. In my mind, I love a first kiss where there's like a hand on the neck that pulls you in or like right in the center, not choking, guys. Don't jump to choking if you're watching on YouTube, but the hands on like the the lower throat area and pulling you in. Right. And the question is in my mind, in that kiss, am I the one putting my hand on the neck, pulling the men, or am I the one being pulled in? For me, if what's turning me on in the moment, visualizing with a certain person, is them being the one putting their hands on the side of my neck and pulling me in, I'm like, ooh, they're bringing out a little, I'm a I'm switchy. They're bringing out that more submissive side of me. If on the other hand, what's turning me on is the idea of me doing that. I'm like, huh, I'm leaning more, more dominant in this connection.

Active Passive And Pleasure Intent

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Absolutely. There's we can go a step further too, because of course, in somatics, what we're talking about is paying attention to your own body. Good compass, if you will, but absolutely not the basis of every sexual interaction because you're not alone. And you may not be with just one person either. And so there's a lot of dynamics that can be going on all at the same time. So checking in is good, but then being kind of in tune with other people is good. We can go further, like in a more cerebral, brainy way of breaking it down, because I know that for a lot of people, it's harder to tap into the body than it is to the mind. We can divide our specific sexual preferences into two things. Do we tend to be a person that is more active or more passive? Which does not mean submissive, right? I'm talking about specifically who is doing the things. Are you the person that likes to be the one that starts the kiss? Are you the one that likes to be the one that climbs on top? Or even if you're underneath, are you leading the movement? I'm talking about the actual activity. That's one category we use. Passive, active. The other category that we can use is do we tend to prefer the other person being in pleasure or us being in pleasure? Again, sex is dyadic. There's two people there, usually or more. So it's not always as clean cut as I'm making it sound, but for the sake of exploring what comes more naturally, try to make it as clean cut as possible. Do I like doing the action and is the action for their pleasure? Do I like doing the action and is the action for my pleasure? Because those are actually different roles. The same person is doing the activity, but the intention is so different that the power dynamic shifts. I would argue that the person that is more active tends to be the person that is more dominant. And I'll offer some examples later about how that can actually not always be the case. But for the sake of exploring it and trying to keep it as simple as possible. But eating pussy can be for you or for them. Like if you really enjoy eating pussy, it could be that you are devouring this person. And honestly, it's cute that you're enjoying it, but I'm doing what I want to do. I'm moving my mouth the way I want to be. I'm moving my hands the way I want to be because I'm in this role. I'm really taking. Of course, inside the realm of consent.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

You know, I love that you bring this up. I thought I'm gonna make it all about me. I am in relationships with women. I tend to be prefer to be dominant. It's just very natural to me. And oftentimes, I like to be the giver, I like to be the pussy eater, if you will, I like to be the finger, the fister, and give them multiple orgasms, and they'll be then they'll be inevitably be like, okay, well, now I should I need to give it back to you. And I'll be like, no, I'm done. I'm done. I'm good. And it has caused like a lot of confusion, a lot of not I don't want to say conflict, but it's like they they don't get it, they don't understand, or they feel like they're failing me in some way if they don't return the favor. And oftentimes I really don't want it. And it's not that they don't do well, it's not that there's anything about them doing the that to me that is a turnoff. It's just like I'm I like what I just did was what I was after, and I have had this energetic orgasm, and I just want to sit and feel proud and like own that moment. And boy, people do not understand that. That's a very dumb thing, correct?

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Absolutely, and we're not taught that that's acceptable, especially as women. So we can get really super into this dynamic thing that I'm trying to that I'm trying to teach without putting a pen paper to it, which is what I would usually do. But absolutely, it can be a total get-off moment that you got to consume someone and take from their energy in a way that they were feeling good. But uh what I did, what got me off was this entire experience. And demanding that I shift roles into something else that is now receiving really feels discordant, at least for me. And I would say for a lot of people who tend to have their little roles that they're in. Like I'm the same way. I'm the kind of person that I'm not good at just laying there and feeling good about things. I'm not gonna feel good. I need to be doing a thing. It's that's not the energy that I want to be receiving from a moment like that. But then the conversation has to be had about the fact that you have to trust your partner to tell you when they're done having sex and not personalize it.

How Dom And Sub Feel

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yes. I love that you brought up this dynamic of giver, receiver, and that this isn't necessarily based around orgasm, right? For for one person at least. So how does it feel? So people now have been listening, they're getting some clarity on the difference between dominant and submissive role when it comes to energy. But can we talk about how each feels in the body? If someone is exploring and trying to figure out, am I more dom, at least whether it's generally your default or with a person, what does it feel like? How does it feel like and how does it show up in your body? And similarly, how does it feel when you lean towards submissive in your body?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

I think that's a pretty complex question for a few reasons. But one is that I've found that we don't all take on the same shape. We don't all feel the same sensation about the same thing. And it can be as simple as like the idea of anger. Like a lot of people feel anger in different parts of their body. And I'm like, what do you mean? You don't feel anger in your freaking jaw? And no, they don't. I know people feel anger in their legs. Arousal is the same way. Hopefully, you're getting some like energetic pull to your pelvic floor, your pussy, your cock, whatever you call your genitals. But that's not always necessarily the case. Right. So the way that I feel it in my body may not be the way that someone else feels it. For me, it's closer to a desire, a gaze. I like to be looked at a certain way, either with devotion, which would be like me in my role of a dominant person, or with adoration, which would be me in a submissive role. And again, not everyone has those same definitions for the amount of freaking hours that I've spent working and learning through these concepts. I do notice though, for me at its core, whether I'm being submissive or dominant, and I'm also a super switch, is that being kind of loved is a key part of it for me. When I'm being submissive, I want to be loved like I'm someone's precious little diamond pet that they want to love and take care of. I don't want to be hurt. Even if someone is being like hard and they're holding me, I don't love impact play. But I feel that that energy is to nourish me, to take care of me. And it's the same for me when it's dominant, but in such a different space where you're actually like, you are a goddess. Look at how you look right now. Does that make sense? How I'm describing that? For me, the sensation is more related to that gaze than it is to a difference in like erotic sinking in. What is it like for you?

SPEAKER_02 26:50

When I'm in more of a dominant energy, I like to I like to be in control and I like to be honored by my partner. Meaning, if I ask for something or tell them to do something, I want them to do it immediately. And that brings me like this kind of surge of like pleasure, I guess. It's a high that I get. And that's yeah, I and and I definitely just have a persona that I step into that's very easy. And yeah, it's it's like powerful. I want to be, I want to tell someone what to do. I want them to do it immediately, and I want them to thank me for it. And I like that being honored, the feeling of being honored. If I'm in more of a sub role, I like to be adored. Yeah, I want adore me. And it's a very and take care of me. I love to be taken care of, make me feel small and safe.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah.

Gender Myths And Changing Defaults

SPEAKER_02 27:48

It's and I very much can be in both energies. And this brings me to we said there's a default, but for some people, is the default one, meaning DOM, sub, or switch. And can that default change?

SPEAKER_00 28:08

I think that people tend to have a default one, and that different partners will bring out a different default. I also think that it's really related to society and what we were told and how we were raised, and either the rejection of that or really internalizing that that is your role. So when I do these explorations, the concept I was explaining a little bit, I find that people tend to be very linear. That means people tend to be either active and those people tend to be switches because I'm gonna do it for you or for me, but I'm gonna do it, do the thing, right? Those people tend to be switches. There are some people that tend to be linear in a way that is I'm just here for your pleasure. Either I'm gonna be providing it or I'm gonna be allowing you to touch me. So whether I'm active or passive, it's my intention is always for you to feel good. That tends to be a really default female role in this society that we live in. Like you get to be here and do things as long as what you're doing is sucking my dick, right? Or rioting me vigorously so that I'm getting off somehow. And of course, I'm saying this in a super cynical, somewhat unkind way, because someone could really freaking love that, right? But in my experience, in my body, I'm a rebel. So I'm like, how about fuck that? How about I'm never doing that actually, either one, right? So I'm not saying it's a good thing. I know this about myself, and I know that my own response is limiting because I don't get to really experience what it feels like to try out all the roles. But I do find that, I do find that we tend to have these patterns, like I was saying, and they tend to be linear. And every time I do this with people and show them with my little chart, they'll be like, oh, I'm absolutely this. I'm absolutely these two, these two, these two. So switch, but in a different way, right? That isn't always about dominance and submission, but it's about like intention.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

I think a lot of women assume they're submissive and want to be submissive in the sex role because they think that that is sexy. And especially if you're out there listening to the fucking red pill manosphere podcasters, don't do that, or you're just gonna have bad sex forever. It's oh, but put a woman and her feminine energy, you have to leap, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And women and men typically we're talking about cis heterosexual men and women who think my default is submissive because I'm a woman. My default is dominant because I'm a man. They go into the bedroom and they try to play out these roles, and nobody's satisfied because they haven't tapped into themselves as humans without society's labeling man is this way in bed, woman is this way in bed.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

I want to chime in for something you said about. I reject the idea that we have this like feminine masculine energy. We're complex and they're not, those are just words that we have used to label a bunch of behaviors that aren't actually a thing. What is more feminine than being a mother? And have you met a mama bear? Like aggression is innately a part of motherhood, is a part of womanhood. And I think that it's super limiting, right, to go in and say, this is what I naturally enjoy because I'm a woman and I want to be comfortable. No, we, in fact, arousal demands that we are uncomfortable. That's like by definition inside of your brain.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

I wanted to jump in about a woman being comfortable. I would say the definition of womanhood is very uncomfortable from periods to being pregnant to giving birth. Have you ever seen a woman give birth? There is nothing like there's nothing fragile about that. There's nothing fragile about that, man. Yeah. It's the we are beasts. I know I've done it a couple of times. And so it is funny that we're applying labels to I love that you bring up the feminine and masculine energy. And look, we can label them those things, but the reality is both of those energies exist in all humans equally, and we should all be able to tap into them because that would make us whole and healthy. And then being able to play that out in the bedroom and feed those different parts, I think is super important, you know, and that's what brings fulfillment. I hear men say all of the time like, how do I get her to desire me again? I want to be desired, I want her to want me again. And that's a very feminine sounding thing if you apply it to manosphere. Of course, you want that. Of course, you want someone to look at you and just be like, You're fucking sexy. I want you. I desire you. I want to devour you. Women feel that towards men as well, in again, the heterosexual framework that we're talking about here. So it's unhealthy for anyone to think that their default default to who's in charge in the bedroom has to do with their gender. Agreed. And what we're asking you to do is to step out of that mind frame and figure out what the truth is about you so you can communicate with that person you're in the bedroom with and have the kind of sex you both really want to have.

Curate Desire In Long Relationships

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Absolutely. I want to name also that if you have listeners that have been with partners for a long time, and I have many clients like this, we tend to believe that desire fades somehow, but and that we have to like keep it spicy, keep it changing. And a lot of us in in the space of like sex podcasts are, of course, giving people information to stuff they don't already know. That's why they're tuning in. So I'm not telling you not to explore things. What I'm saying is we have underestimated how important it is to curate our sexual environments. And that is a longer process than you look cute in that dress. Come fuck me. I'm talking about when we start dating someone, it wasn't spontaneous that you were gonna have sex. You had the date planned a week in advance. You shaved your legs if you do that. You did your hair makeup, if you do that. You were thinking about this person the whole day. Likely you were texting each other saying, I can't wait to see you later. You felt excitement about it. All of that is foreplay. All of it. And we don't do that when we are living with someone, you just roll over in the morning and have sex. You, your life is not unexciting. What's happening is that there's no effort being put in. So when we take time to say we are on purpose going to explore our dominance and submission, we're gonna switch the roles that we think we have just for funsies. And you say it in advance, and you're like preparing for this really sexy thing that you're gonna be exploring that is also, by the way, really vulnerable. So by default, it's gonna be really yummy connecting time to explore something new. You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of better sex.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

I love that as an exercise and as a fun way to like reignite the fun in a longer-term relationship. I think you should do this at the get-go, but also down the road, if you're now like, okay, I want to work on this with my partner, is to say, hey, let's let's figure out what we're into. Let's see who's really in charge in the bedroom. Listen to this podcast with your partner and then say, Hey, tonight I'm gonna try taking lead. I'm gonna try telling you what to do and let's see how that feels to both of us, and then switch it up. And even if it feels awkward at first, laugh about it. You can laugh about it, right? Absolutely. You can you can do it and stumble through it and laugh and and do it again and again and again until you guys kind of find your way and then switch and see how it feels in the body and see if one feels better than the other and try new dynamics and then sit and talk about it afterwards. What did you like? Did you like that? Did you like it when I told you what to do? Did you like being the, you know, thank you receiver, the the submissive, or did that feel weird, you know?

Wheel Of Consent Five Minute Game

Simon Says And Using Your Words

SPEAKER_00 37:35

I love that. I do. I have some exercises that I think people could try out, like without feeling like it's jumping off the ledge. There's one, it's not my exercise. I didn't make it up. Betty Martin did. She's the creator of The Wheel of Consent, which is what we've been talking about, where it's actually based on a dominant submission dynamic, her entire Wheel of Consent that we use for all types of people, even vanilla people now in our practices. It's a very quick game. You set a timer for five minutes, and you, the person who it's for, the person who's receiving the pleasure, gets to choose to ask one of two things. Will you, as in you're gonna do an action to me for my pleasure, or may I, which is I'm gonna do this action for my pleasure on your body, and you take turns for these five minutes choosing something that you want to do. It could be as simple as may I play with your hair, and you're establishing that I'm gonna be doing the action, but I wanted to play with your hair, it looks like it feels soft and nice. Are you available for me to do that? It's a game of consent. So definitely, if you don't want to, you say no. And then they ask something else, right? You don't have to take it personal, switch it up, right? Because if you, for example, want to do something a little more aggressive, may I tie you up? A person has the right to be like, I feel like that's more than I wanted to do for five minutes, right? So don't take it as a rejection, just take it as a redirection if someone chooses not to engage in what you're inviting them to do. But take your whole five minutes to actually do the thing. If there's something that could make it better, if you're playing with someone's hair and you're like, actually, I think I'd like to braid it now, or maybe you want to move on and actually scratch their back, or you can renegotiate again, but you get the whole five minutes for you to feel good. It is immediately tapping into and negotiating who it's for and who's doing the action. So you're quickly tapping into that. And again, it doesn't have to be sexual. Another game I like to play is an easy game of Simon Says. They can say no if it's something really crazy, but I would encourage them to try it. I would encourage people to try this in a way that doesn't lead to orgasm. I'm gonna tell you what to do, and we're gonna enjoy this. And then we'll switch, and then it's your turn to do Simon Says, and we're gonna do what you say for as long as we have set out to do it.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Do you say Simon says or do you say something else?

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Oh, I just say get on your knees. I'm serious, though. Use your own language and really for us as sex educators, but for anything anyone hears out there, if the language is getting in the way of you actually being able to do the exercise, change the fucking language. It's a your sex life. Don't if I tell someone, oh, use the red light system where you say red light, yellow light instead of stop or go, or the safe word system. And you would never say orange or yellow in the bedroom, then don't say yellow. Create your own phrases that you can actually use.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

So by playing this game where you say, for whatever next period of five minutes, I'm going to tell you what to do, Simon says. Get on your knees. Um you're telling, meaning you're not saying please. You're just telling. You're going to get a really good idea. That's a very dominant thing to do. After I'm, I mean, I think five, five minutes, ten minutes, like you're going to have a very, you're going to be like, that was fun, but I'm really looking forward to switching off and having my partner tell me what to do. That's going to inform you. You're going to be like, maybe I'm a little more subby. I don't want to be. I already know. Like right now, I'm like, oh yeah, I want to tell people what to do. It's a that's a fast, a fast track to figuring out what you're feeling with that person and maybe in general. It's going to give you a good feel for your default. And it's something you can do with each partner that you have, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Absolutely. I do want to say, people don't listen to me on this, but set the freaking timer. Five minutes is a lot longer than you think it is. Especially when you're being intentional, your phones aren't there, the TV's not on. You're actually trying to think about what I can get this person to do next. Five minutes is a surprisingly long amount of time. But I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

I could do it for an hour. I got I got telling you what to do for an hour.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

I will say there's been moments in my life that I was feeling very disconnected from partners, and we've played the five-minute game in a non-sexual way because we were raising children and you don't always feel like having your genitals be a part of your sharing time with each other. And in 10, 15, 20 minutes, you feel so reconnected to that person just by sharing with them how you want to touch them, how you want them to touch you, even if it's literally getting a back scratch. It's so unintentional.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

And once you do these exercises and you have an idea of what the dynamic is, and now you know I'm leaning more sub, whether it's today or with a partner or generally, then once you step into the bedroom, you're not in that awkward space of, okay, how do we get started? Who's going to initiate? Who's going to play what role? You kind of know what you want already. And it clears a lot of that hesitation out of the way. Because you know what brings you both pleasure, what what's most exciting to you. And that doesn't mean down the road you can't switch it up and be like, hey, tonight I want to try a different role and negotiate that out. But at least for the day today, there are so many blocks to people wanting to have sex. And one of them is, am I up for going to the bedroom and getting things started and figuring out what we want to do tonight? That can feel like work. I know for me, it can feel like work. I'm like, I just worked all day long. I don't have the energy to go to the bedroom and figure out what's going to make it work tonight. So by already kind of knowing what works best for you and your partner, even yourself, and being able to tell that to your partner, that's going to remove one of those barriers right off the bat to wanting to have more intimacy.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

I think it's important to note that the same way that we are investing time in different aspects of who we are, like some people may go to church, some people may go to like community centers, some people go to work or study. We're spending like carved out time for things. We have to be carving out time for our intimate lives if it is something that is important to us. It is a fast track to relaxation and a fast track to connection, to reconnecting with our bodies and our partners. So already you have a good excuse to engage, but carve out time that is this is playful exploration time, which is different than, and I've heard this term in a kind of cringy, problematic way before, it's different than like maintenance. Okay. I'm not saying when you get home after a long day of work and you don't have the energy, take out the five-minute game. Right. What I'm saying is outside of those spaces where you're just like going through the motions because you just need to get off at the end of the day and be able to go to sleep nicely. Carve out time to be intentionally playful, to be intentionally curious. And once that time's kind of organized to be that way, it makes it much easier for you to be like, okay, we're done. I don't feel like doing this anymore. And those are the times that you're the most authentic and that you're showing up the most as yourself and finding the most sensation in your body.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

So a couple of things I want to make sure you guys all caught from our conversation. And then we're going to do our takeaways. First of all, just because you're a woman, submissive isn't your default. Just because you're a man, dominant isn't your default, and that's okay. It doesn't mean anything about your masculinity or femininity. So everyone, regardless of gender and body, should be trying to explore their default. It's important. It's going to help close the orgasm gap and make sure you're having really fun sex, right? Also, don't assume that your default is your default with everyone. It's something to revisit with each partner and see what they bring out in you and how fun if you get to have variety. If not, there are some people. I know I've met plenty of people who know, like, I want to be dominant. Like that's that's who I am. And if you're not into that, then we're not going to have this isn't going to be fun for me. There are some people who very much at least think or seem to know for themselves that they tend towards dominant, which is great because there's also some people who are like, I'm submissive. But but don't think that your gender dictates that. Also be open to the opportunity to see if it changes with partner or time of month ladies or time of life ladies. Trust me, shit changes in your 40s and after menopause. So for my listeners who came to this conversation because they're like, I really want to figure out who's in charge in my bedroom, our bedroom. Let's give them three quick takeaways. What are things they can start doing as soon as they we cheers out of this episode to figure that out and implement it in their sex life?

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Well, I think we've covered some, but the first one is tap into your body, get into your fantasy head, and explore it in a way that is a little more private, just inside of your own body, inside of your own head. What feels naturally like what you want to do? Talk to your partner about it. Because I think a lot of times we already kind of feel what the dynamic is like. You've been outside of the bedroom, inside of the bedroom. Sometimes these dynamics kind of seep out. So being on the same page and talk to them about wanting to explore it further, sink deeper into that role, and then curate some time to spend on these games and create your own games, your own ideas. We're all full of very creative things when we're given the right space to do it. Perfect.

Where To Find Sarah Perry

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Yeah, I like the idea of figuring out your own games. And remember, playing with your partner both in and out of the bedroom is super important. Play and have fun. Thank you so much. This was a great conversation. And I think it's going to be very helpful to many. And so it's a great reminder for me too. As we were talking, I was like, oh, I need to do this in my own life. So regardless of experience in the bedroom with sex, this is a good refresh for everybody or new information for everyone. Can you tell my listeners where they can find you, follow you to get a little more?

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Absolutely. So I am a certified somatic sex educator and sexological bodyworker. And if someone chooses to see a practitioner like me, sometimes it's best to see someone that's local so you can see them in person. And if you go to the Institute for Somatic Sex and Education, they have a registry of everyone who's certified. It's only about 300 of us worldwide. But still, there's someone maybe closer to you than me. And if it's me that you love and want to follow, I love that too. Havenspace by Sarah, H A V E N Space by Sarah. Um, or Haven Space Coaching is all over social media. Like my Instagram is Haven Space Coaching. I have a TikTok that my children have begged me to create to teach young people about couples things. My website is havenspacecoaching.com and you can book sessions through there, book packages, and get some of my like more specific content that I sell through there as well.

Remove Awkwardness And Report Back

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Wonderful. Thank you so much. Listen, folks, getting past the awkwardness in the bedroom can oftentimes be a barrier to couples wanting to have sex. And if you want to have a better sex life, removing as many of those barriers as possible is going to make frequency go up. One of those barriers oftentimes is not knowing who's going to be the boss in the bedroom, who's going to take the lead, who's going to do what. And we've now given you a nice little roadmap to starting to figure that out with your partner and just the act of figuring it out is going to bring you closer and make it more exciting to get in the bedroom and have fun. So take some of these exercises, do them, and then report back to me promptly. You know how to do that. You can go over to my YouTube channel at TalkSex with Anette. You can drop your comment below the video, or you can email me at Annette at talksexwithanette.com and let me know how it goes. Also, any questions, comments, I'm taking them all. Thank you so much, Sarah, for joining me today. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Thanks for having me and happy sex to everyone.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Happy sex to everyone and listeners. Until next time.