She Checks Out During Sex. Here's Why — And How to Bring Her Back

You've felt it. That moment mid-sex when she goes somewhere you can't follow. She's still moving — but she's gone. It's called dissociation. It's not about you, it's not about attraction, and it's not permanent.

Vanessa Cushing — AASECT Certified Sex Therapist and founder of Cushing Counseling and Sex Therapy Pro — breaks down what's actually happening and how to bring her back. And this one took a turn I didn't expect: men dissociate too. It just looks completely different.

In this episode:

• The signs she's checked out — and the very different signs he has
• The five gears of touch: pinpoint exactly where she leaves
• The "safe trust position" every couple needs before they need it
• How to retrain your nervous system to stay present

Find Vanessa Cushing Here: https://www.cushingcounseling.com/

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Transcript

New Name And Bold Mission

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Do the sex.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I'm Annette Benedetti, host of the podcast formerly known as Locker Room Talk and Shots. The show has a new name, Talk Sex with Annette. But at its core, this is still your locker room. It's where we strip away shame, get curious, and speak the unspoken about sex, kink dating, pleasure, and desire. Around here, nothing's off limits. These are the kinds of conversations we save for our boldest group chat, our most trusted friends, and of course, the women's locker room. Think raw, honest, and sometimes unapologetically raunchy. Welcome to my podcast where desire meets disruption and pleasure becomes power. Let's talk about sex. Cheers.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Today's Talk Sex with Annette topic is she checks out during sex, here's why, and how to bring her back. You felt it that moment mid-sex when she goes somewhere you can't follow. She's still moving, but she's gone. You don't know if you did something wrong. You don't know if you should stop. You don't know what she needs. After today, you well. What's happening is called dissociation during sex. And it's not about you, it's not about attraction, and it's not permanent. Today we are talking about what it is, what causes it at the root, what triggers it in the bedroom, and what it's costing your sex life. And even more importantly, what exactly you can do to bring her back. My guest is Vanessa Cushing, licensed professional counselor, certified sex therapist, and founder of Cushing Counseling and Sex Therapy Pro, a platform

Why She Checks Out Mid-Sex

SPEAKER_02 2:46

built to make sex therapy actually accessible. She's trained at Johns Hopkins and the University of Virginia, and she's spent her career working with exactly the issues that most clinicians still avoid. Welcome, Vanessa. Before we dive in, I gotta remind you guys, I'm over on OnlyFans, and there I'm sharing my sex and intimacy how-tos, audio guided self-pleasure meditations, and so much more. You can find me there and at Substack with my handle at TalkSex with Annette. And you can find both Vanessa and I wherever you want to find us by scrolling down to the notes section below where you're gonna find all of those links. I can't wait to see you there. Vanessa, can you take a moment just to tell my listeners a little bit more about you?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Annette, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. So I am an ASEC certified sex therapist. There's only about 20,000 of us in the United States. So pretty rare to meet a certified sex therapist. I had my bachelor's in psychology and women and gender studies, and then I got my master's in clinical mental health counseling, then received my certificate of sex therapy at the University of Michigan, and then went full force and got my ASEC sex therapy certification and started my private practice cushion counseling, realized a lot of people can't afford sex therapy, and then founded my startup sex therapy pro.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Listeners, she knows what she's talking about. And there's a topic that is important to take our time with and make sure the information is correct with because it's happening in a lot of bedrooms. It involves obviously trauma for individuals, and there is a way to bring whoever you're having sex with who is dissociating back into the bedroom with you. So you're gonna want to stay to the end because we are going to go through this experience many of us are having. You're gonna find out what causes it, you're gonna know the science to look for, and then you're gonna start having a path to bringing them back. By the end, of course, we'll have those takeaways. So I'm ready. Let's dive in to how to bring her back to the bedroom. Cheers. Cheers, isn't it? Disassociation during sex. What is it in plain terms, and what is actually happening to her when that happens?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Disassociation is actually a symptom of PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder. It can be. It's one of the negative symptoms of PTSD. We hear a lot about positive symptoms, which are like the intrusive symptoms, so nightmares being triggered. And we don't hear a lot about the negative symptoms of PTSD, and dissociation is part of the negative symptoms of PTSD. So dissociation might look like your partner, their eyes might glaze over, they might not remember what has happened. They are basically in a different place than where their body is in that moment. There's also this thing called depersonalization within dissociation, where you almost see yourself from a third person. And that can be really difficult.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

And does this, especially in sexual situations, does disassociation

Dissociation Explained In Plain Terms

SPEAKER_02 5:59

only affect women?

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Not at all. I have met men who have severe dissociation and depersonalization during sex.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

So all partners can experience this.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Yeah. And I would say a lot of dissociation does come from sexual trauma. It doesn't have to be, but one in three women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. So you can probably guess that that is where it is coming from.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

What does it look like in partners of different genders? Or are those the same sort of indicators that you meant just mentioned?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

It's such a good question because I think there are a lot of gender roles at play when it comes to sex and how people behave during sex. And I think when people dissociate in more feminine contexts, and this can be for some people, but not everyone. This is what I have seen in my clinical work, is a lot of women just go blank and they're there, but they're not there. You are having sex with their body, but their mind is not there. Their eyes might be glazed over, they're not engaging. And also for men, it might be more primal dissociation. So it might be very rough, it might be aggressive. So it can really vary from person to person. But I have seen that it does follow along with the masculine, feminine gender rules.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

So for men, when men dissociate in bed, they may start that aggressive pounding motion. Exactly. What are some other signs when men disassociate in bed just simply because it's not talked about a lot?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

It's not. I would say the dissociation for men, and and for men, it's extremely shameful. I think for them when they have sexual trauma, they don't know where to put that. There's not really a place where men can go and talk about, oh, I was raped, because a lot of men, other men don't believe that men can be raped, but of course men can be raped. So I think that's really hard to talk about. And for men, I think the prime thing of dissociation is that you don't the partner in front of you is no longer the person you see. It is not that core personality trait. It truly is another person coming in.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

I think a lot of women have felt that when they feel like they're just a body being used. And we personalize it in a way that is, oh, they're just using us. They're sexualizing us and using us. We I've never this is all new to me, folks. All new to me. Thought to myself, oh, that's him disassociating. Never occurred to me.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yeah, it can be. Not all the time. There are some men out there that just want to use your body for pleasure. That's the thing. But some men do dissociate. It is not who that person is. It is a complete distinction from that person's core personality trait in that moment when they dissociate.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

How would a woman know the difference between a man just using her body and a man actually dissociating? Is there a way to tell?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

It's a good question. I think in a one-night stand, you probably can't. But if you are in a relationship with that person, you know who that person is, you're attuned to that person, and you know that person is not looking at you like they know you. They're not looking at you like they love you. They are not there anymore.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Yeah, that's powerful information. Thank you so much for taking this conversation there. So regardless of gender, when someone dissociates during sex and intimacy, are they aware that they're doing it?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Sometimes it depends on the person. If you have been in therapy and you know what dissociation feels like, you can identify when you're doing it. But if you do not have that definition of what dissociation looks like, if I'm just in another world, sometimes it's really normal for that person. Sometimes it's just normal to go to a little place in your mind while you have sex with your partner and so cool. But that is dissociating or seeing yourself like having sex from a third point point of view.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

So I have been very transparent on this podcast throughout the time I've had it, that I'm a surviv uh sexual assault survivor. And so this experience is very common to me. And it is interesting because now that I know what it is, and honestly, it doesn't just happen in bed for me. Sometimes I choose it. I'm like, I go ahead and dissociate for a little because it feels good. It actually is a it's a good feeling in my body. I had to know what that feeling was to put a name to it and then recognize it in bed and continue to pull myself back so I could experience more pleasure with my partners, which helped me orgasm more. So just a little personal perspective on that. How is disassociation during sex different from low desire or low libido? Because I think oftentimes, especially when a man is with a partner who's dissociating it a lot, they think things like she just doesn't want sex. Just not in the sex or her libido's low.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Well, first I want to say thank you so much, Annette, for sharing that with me about your trauma history. I too am a sexual trauma survivor, and that's

How Dissociation Can Look For Men

SPEAKER_00 11:21

why I do this work. And it is really nice to know that there's another person out there that's doing the same work. Thank you for sharing that. In terms of your other question, dissociation versus low sexual desire, I think disassociation happens at a point. I think it can happen at many different points. So we talk about desire and we talk about arousal and we talk about orgasm. And I think desire is the feeling of wanting to. If there's a restaurant that you really like to go to, you have a desire to go to that restaurant. And then you go to the restaurant and you have the experience of eating at this restaurant, and then you have your meal, the dessert, the finale. And then you leave. And I think that desire is the wanting to. And I do think that some women, they might not want to have sex because they are dissociating and it's not a good experience for them. So I think talking to your partner about okay, are you feeling the wanting? Where do you feel the wanting? Do you feel the wanting to kiss? And going through the five years of touch and connection is really helpful with this because then you can pinpoint where that dissociation starts and where the wanting ends and the dissociation begins. So the five years of touch are affectionate touch. So holding hands, maybe kiss on the cheek, nothing sexual. And then sensual touch is a little bit more, there's more touch. There, it can be nude or semi-nude. So cuddling on the couch, watching Netflix, spooning. And then playful touch is more playful, erotic, fun, unpredictable, like strip poker or twister. And then erotic touch is oral manual sex or sex with toys, and then intercourse touch. And I think you can go through the five years of touch and connection and be like, okay, how is affectionate touch for you? It's really great. I don't dissociate during affectionate touch, sensual touch. Yeah, sensual touch is good. Playful touch is good. Okay, well, we when we get to erotic touch, when we get to in like oral sex, that's when I start to dissociate, and that's where my desire goes down. Okay, cool. Now we've pinpointed that point. Okay, now we want to go all the way up to there and we want to focus on the trigger. What is actually triggering the dissociation and why?

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Wow, even as you even as you talked me through those levels, I was like, Where is it? Right, because I definitely have an inspiration all the time, but I struggle at some point with dissociation or where my desire drops, right? Yeah. And as you were talking me through that, I'm a very visual person. I was walking through it and I could find pinpoint the typical places when I'm with a partner, it's where it starts to not be fun anymore. Or just when I ask where those places are for you. The minute you said they start to go down on me. Yeah. It was like that. It's straight out of like wow, the fun part to now this feels like work. Now I'm like it and I do enjoy res not to get this wrong, folks. I do love to have people go down on me or partners to go down on me. But that is the if it if I'm not gonna be in the mood, that's where it starts. Yeah. Now I can be super happy giving, yeah, or else that's being the giver.

unknown 14:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

It's being on the receiving end that the work kicks in or the need to kind of leave my body and check out so that I can get through it.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

And thank you so much for sharing that. I think that a lot of women feel that way when they are put in a position where they almost need to perform, or like the act is done on them, or where they feel like they're in a vulnerable position. That is when the dissociation starts. Like I said, uh uh oral sex for a reason, because that is where a lot of it starts for women. It's oh my god, my vagina is in this man's face. What are they going to do? And it's I'm not really in the mood to do this, but he's gonna do it. Like, how long is it gonna take? How long, like all those things. And then it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Fascinating. I've never thought through it strategically like that. That's fascinating. Thank you for that. I'm confident that many of my listeners are gonna go, oh, I've seen that or I've felt that, or that's why that happens. Yeah. So my next question: what are some things that happen in the bedroom, specific things a partner might do to trigger that triggers this dissociative response?

SPEAKER_00 15:56

I think it depends on the person. For me, uh I can talk very openly. If somebody is on my chest, immediate trigger. I don't want anything on my chest. And I and that goes back to my own trauma. But I think you have to ask your partner, okay, what are the things that trigger the dissociation and have that conversation? Because it is different for everyone. Like you said, the oral sex is one for you. Something on my chest is something for me, something done to me. I don't like that. And and it can be different from person to person. It can just for some clients I've seen, it's just during intercourse. It really depends. It's sometimes it can be with a dildo, a vibrator. It really just depends on the person. I don't know the trigger for everyone. And that's where the hard work has to start is you have to figure out, okay, where is my trigger, and then be able to share your trigger with your partner and feel safe enough to do that.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

And I want to go back just for a second. I got ahead of myself. We talked a little bit about the root cause. Can we walk through what some of the different root causes could be just so my listeners understand the breadth of things that can lead to this?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

A rape is the number one cause of dissociation. I would also say if somebody doesn't have good,

Desire Versus Dissociation In Bed

SPEAKER_00 17:12

if they're not in touch with their body or they feel like they don't deserve pleasure, I do think that can be a cause. Because if someone doesn't feel like they deserve pleasure, they'll just go into their mind and be like, okay, I'm just gonna get this over with. I also think sometimes when people fight and they don't feel super connected to their partner, that can also trigger some dissociation. So anger and resentment and just doing it to do it or give it as a gift to your partner, but you don't really feel in the mood, I think that can also trigger dissociation.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

I've often heard it talked about as big T's and little T's, which I don't love so much, big traumas, little traumas, because I think all trauma is just trauma. Yeah. But in a way that it's easy for people to digest. I think one thing that can lead to it that happens a lot for women is having uncomfortable sex and instead of stopping your partner, just continuing on, gritting your teeth, and getting through the discomfort because your body doesn't know the difference.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Your mind knows that this is a person you love, but your body is like, I don't want to have sex right now, and then you're forcing your body to have sex right now. Your body doesn't know the difference. That is the biggest thing. And that's when most association happens, is when you're having sex, you don't really want to have.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

You're doing doing the thing. You haven't just given your partner the opportunity to understand this doesn't feel good, or I need to stop. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Also, I think it's really important that your partner knows what it is, your partner's attuned enough to know what the dissociation looks like, and you stop. I think a lot of men specifically, they just enjoy the sex, so they're just gonna enjoy the sex. They're not attuned to their partner, they don't notice what's going on in that other person's body. And that's not the way to have good sex. You want to be connected with your partner, you want to be attuned to them, you want to know how they're feeling. And if you don't know that, not a good situation.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

That's why this podcast is important. Yeah. That's why you need to send this to your partner. Or you need to sit and watch this with your partner. So you can stop and pause. Come back and watch this with your partner, and you can stop and pause at different places and ask each other, have you seen that in me? Or, or, oh, I recognize that in me. Do you recognize that in me? This is a great conversation starter. So this brings me to a tie-in question. What role does performance play? Oh God, in leading to the dissociation or triggering the dissociation or birthing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I hate performance. Performance is the gateway drug to erectile dysfunction, by the way. If you're performing, you will eventually have erectile dysfunction. One day your penis isn't gonna work as well as it used to. And what happens then is you're gonna spiral and you're gonna think, oh, I need to perform, I need to please this person. And that is a direct route to erectile dysfunction. That that makes sense. I've never heard that before. Oh, yeah. Performance is a big problem because performance anxiety creates all sorts of erectile difficulties. I think for women too, I think if women are trying to perform more so, then they're not really connected. I don't know if performance is necessarily linked super a big amount to dissociation. I I think it can be of like, oh, I want to perform, I want this person to feel good. And then at some point it doesn't feel good for that person anymore, but they still have to pretend like they're enjoying it. I think that can be harmful. But I think performance and dissociation, I see them as almost two different things. Neither I and I don't want to say dissociation is bad, by the way. Like you said, for your for you dissociation actually feels good. Dissociation is a protection mechanism that we have that we can go to a different place and feel okay. It doesn't mean that it's bad. And I don't want us to judge the dissociation. I just want us to have connective sex that feels good and that you're present for.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah, like I said, it comes into play in my outside of the bedroom life too. And sometimes I'll joke with people who will recognize it and I'll be like, hey, can you just let me enjoy some dissociation for a moment? Yeah. Dissociate for a second and have a little rest rest. But during sex, when she dissociates, can we talk about? And because we've brought men into this too and dissociating during sex, I kind of want to talk about the different genders. I also, for my queer folk out there, want you to understand regardless of your gender, non-binary trans, you you fit into this narrative too, right? But maybe we're gearing it toward masculine and feminine. And if you're somewhere in between, you can look at all of these signs and signals. But what is happening in, let's start with her body when she's dissociating during sex? What is she feeling? What is she not able to feel? And how's that affecting her sexual experience?

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Well, I think when you dissociate, it's pretty numb. You don't feel that much. You feel might you might be triggered for a second, and then you'll go into dissociation, you'll feel probably better than you were feeling before. You still feel like you're having sex. It's just not it's not connective. You're there, but you're not. Not you're physically there, your body is feeling pleasure, but you're mentally not there. So it's hard to say. I think it's more numbness. What experience have you had?

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Yeah, I think it probably plays into difficulty with orgasm. Yes. You can't orgasm when you're numb. No. Yeah. And and then I'll have to really try to think about things to two scenarios, if you will. Replay my my top hits and try to get that feeling to come back to my body or to orgasm, even if I'm not coming back really into the situation to orgasm.

unknown 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I've got to be somewhere else playing the hits.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah. And I think a lot of women do that too. I I had another sex therapist actually share a very similar story of how she can only orgasm with specific sexual scenarios and the specific type of porn and a very specific type of stimulation. So this vibrator with, I don't know, a different kink that she has. And I think it's so normal to have a shy orgasm. And I think being able to orgasm even when you're in a dissociative state is a good orgasm. It might not be as strong as you are presently, but you're using fantasy. And I think that is good.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Shy orgasm.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

A shy orgasm. Yeah. We never talk about a shy orgasm. No, we don't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Maybe it's a little off-topic, but what is a shy or orgasm? What is a shy orgasm by your definition?

SPEAKER_00 25:29

I think a shy orgasm is a very specific set of s scenarios that you can think about. So different types of kings or different categories of porn and a specific type of stimulation. So you are only able to orgasm on your own with a vibrator in your bed watching, I don't know, hmm, rope play. That's a shy orgasm.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

I want that on a t-shirt. I think I think I have shy orgasms.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Shy orgasms. I know nobody,

Common Triggers And Root Causes

SPEAKER_00 25:57

nobody ever talked about it until a sex therapist is like, yeah, I have a shy orgasm. I was like, that is awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I'm like, I don't feel as weird now. I'm like, I think I'm a little shy too. Complete sense.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Now I want to bring this to what is this costing in the bedroom? What is this costing in the relationship? When you've got dissociation that's happening in the bedroom between a couple or partners, what is the cost to the relationship if you don't talk about it, discover it, and work with it?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

I think the worst thing that can happen is if your partner doesn't recognize you're dissociating and you just dissociate every time. And then it becomes, well, he just wants to have sex with me. He doesn't, it's I'm just a body. And I think that eats away at the core connection of the relationship is does this person really see me? Are they really connected to me? And I imagine there's a lot of anger that comes from that. And anger is the number one reason for a female inhibited sexual desire.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

I want to back up because I just did a surface to the conversation. I forgot to talk about what dissociation feels like in a masculine body or a body with a people.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

So we're going to go back and we're going to just go over that really quickly because I think that's important.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Yeah, of course. I think dissociation can feel different in a man's body. It's just when your body is present and your mind is elsewhere and you are having this experience where it doesn't align with who you are as a person. I think that is the biggest thing. And it can feel more primal. It can feel more out of control for some men. I think women, we in femininity, I think we're taught to just stay still and be quiet and be small. But men are taught the opposite of to be big, to be aggressive, to take up space. And I think the dissociation when men dissociate during sex, it is more on that line than rather the small.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Right. So when we're talking about the cost in the bedroom, if a man is doing that and has a female partner who's not understanding why they're doing that, it could definitely create some trauma for her, even. Yeah. And then you got a whole web of trouble, but also just feeling of being the feeling of being used.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

And scared because that that person that is looking at you is not your partner. You're like, who is this? And they don't recognize me.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

So funny when I look back, I definitely recognize that in some of the relationships with men I've had. And I have no idea. I was just like, I don't like this person.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Because you don't that is a person you don't recognize, and that person doesn't recognize you. And that's the scariest part.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Can a relationship survive long term if this goes on unaddressed every time that you're having sex? All throughout the relationship, at least. Some people maybe it is every time. Some maybe some it is becomes the cadence of their relationship. I think that's why. I think that's why women also just eventually check out. Yes. Which could be either at some point she's okay, I'm done getting through this and dissociating all the time. Or it could be another reason why women check out of being intimate with their male partners if their male partner is disassociating in that way and having sex with them in that way. So this podcast has taken a turn for me. I didn't expect, and really revealed a whole additional dynamic between men and women that could be leading to the downfall of their sexual relationship. Because a lot of people come to me in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. And oftentimes men who are like, she doesn't want to have sex with me anymore, and we're trying to figure it out. And it had this was a missing piece for me. If you have a man who's dissociating and just pounding away at her for years, eventually she's gonna be like, I don't have to do this anymore. I'm like in menopause, I can't make babies. You're like, fuck it, I don't want to do this anymore. And I don't blame her. I don't blame her. So the survival rate of a relationship where it's not addressed no. You can survive, but it's not gonna be a happy one. It's like a tree rotten from the inside. It's still standing, but what's really there? Yeah. So this conversation is important, and this is why you gotta sit and listen to it with the partner or send it to partners.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

I think it just goes back to attunement. If you don't are not attuned with your partner, you're not connected to your partner, you're not gonna notice that they're dissociating. And then if you don't notice your person, what kind of relationship is that?

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Absolutely. So this brings me to when you are having sex with a partner and you notice them disassociating, because now you're gonna notice it because now you know the science to look for. That's that's the first step there. When you start noticing something, and I think somewhere in the back of your mind, if you're watching this, you're already going, Oh, have felt that.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah. What should they do in that moment? They should probably stop having sex and go to a safe and trusted position that you've already laid out for them. I like to tell clients, okay, what is a safe trust position that you and your partner can go to when you're having a difficult sexual experience? Everybody's gonna have a difficult sexual experience. It's about what happens afterwards. How can we reconnect afterwards? Maybe we spoon for 30 minutes and then we can talk about it. Hey, baby, how are you doing? I noticed that you weren't really yourself. What do you need?

SPEAKER_02 31:55

So in that moment, you suggest stopping and finding a safe position. I have never wait. I want to focus on this because you said when you see it, stop and go to safe position. I

Performance Pressure And Protection Responses

SPEAKER_02 32:09

have never heard someone even bring up in advance coming up with a safe position. Yeah. Is that something we talk about? Is that something we address in advance to Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 32:23

If you know that you dissociate and and your partner knows you dissociate, okay, how do we deal with it? Okay, let's go to a safe trust position where you both feel safe and connected.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

But I guess I would say a lot of people don't know they dissociate. And wouldn't having a safe trust position be good for any couple, regardless.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Regardless, even if you're in a fight and the fight has gotten a little bit out of hand and you just want a hug, you just want to be held. I think a good trust position is good for anybody, regardless of dissociate.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah, and establish establishing that early in a relationship. Hey, if we are having sex or being intimate and something goes astray, it could be even something embarrassing. You queep, you something that you squirt, whatever it is, and you feel uncomfortable here. Let's let's figure out what feels good. Because I know I've been in a lot of situations throughout my life during intimacy where something happens, the vibe gets off, something embarrassing. And I will tell you, I know exactly the first thing I do is I hop back and I grab a blanket and I pull it up here, and I'm like, safe.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Because I don't know. So we sleeping.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Yeah, that's would be my go-to. But to have a partner where we have a conversation, something's feeling uncomfortable. Let's go to this is the position we really enjoy and feel safe with each other, whether that's just sitting facing each other with your legs

Numbness Orgasm Trouble And Shy Orgasms

SPEAKER_02 33:59

entwined or in a spooning position and just knowing that and having that to fall back on instead of running to the other side of the room.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

I'm out of here. No, yeah, exactly. Because it you're not alone in the experience anymore. You're with a person that cares about you and safe.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

So stopping and going to your safe position. What are some other things you can start to do in that moment to address the association and be dis to address the disassociation and then to start bringing both of you back to the bedroom?

SPEAKER_00 34:36

I think it's hard because you have to notice like when you're dissociating. So you need to know what that feels like for you. You probably have to talk about that beforehand. And then identifying the triggers, I think, is important of okay, wait, oral sex is actually a big trigger for me. I need to be at a high, high level of erotic flow to go into oral sex where I might start dissociating and then sharing that with a partner. But I definitely don't think you should just push through dissociation unless it feels good for you. If it is distressing for you, please stop.

SPEAKER_02 35:06

So a couple needs to start having this conversation outside of the bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Outside of the bedroom. Not in the bedroom, not when it happens. That's why you go to your safe and trusted position. You just hold each other. You don't talk, actually. Worst place to talk is in the bedroom when you're naked after the thing happens. Worst. I love that. I love that. So what does that conversation look like? Hey babe, I noticed you weren't really yourself last night, and you might have got been going on to maybe a different world. What happened before that started that I need to be aware of?

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Simple.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah. Okay, noticed you weren't there.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

What can we do? What if her reaction is? Oh, I don't know. I didn't I didn't notice anything. Or I can think about myself younger when younger days when I had partners who would ask me questions and I would just lock up. Oh, what do I need to make you happier? Right?

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

In bed.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

That's a good question because you have to have the self-awareness to be to be vulnerable. I would say that is a piece of armor. There's some that reaction is is bumping up against your armor, and there's something on the other side that's vulnerable. So having the courage to say what you're gonna say, regardless of the outcome, I think is is courageous.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

Yeah, and I think for a partner to call it out and continue to name it is important because eventually, even if she's not able or he's not able necessarily to answer that, being questioned over and over again is going to lead to the this is what I'm experiencing. This is something we need to figure out.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Takes about seven times for someone to share with you what has happened to them. Seven times of asking. So research shows.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Seven times of asking. That's an important piece of information for y'all. You don't ask once or twice or four times, you keep asking, and now you know about how many many times, and this isn't in a row, but yes, seven times. Yeah. I'm just for for people who are really wanting to move things along, I think I want to clarify that. Don't sit there, ask, ask, ask, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:30

But if you care about that person, they will eventually open up to you. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

So can a woman or man or a person of any gender retrain their nervous system so that dissociation isn't happening in bed, at least all of the time or the majority of time? Of course.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Of course. It does take therapy, I would say. Go to therapy, do your trauma work, figure out your triggers, and then notice when they come up in your body, go to your safe position, and then it will gradually extinguish that response.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

It takes work in wanting to do something about it.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Right. I think a big part of my

What It Costs Your Relationship

SPEAKER_02 38:15

response to trauma, sexual trauma, and the deadening of my ability to have an orgasm, a big reason why now I can be so orgasmic is that I did a 365 days of orgasm sort of challenge for myself, primarily me giving myself orgasms and really taking time to create trust with my body because that trust had been betrayed or taken away. And and I had to be able to be in my body to have an orgasm every day. I had there was no way I was getting through that year unless I like after a week of taking 45 minutes to an hour to have an orgasm, I was like, this is not gonna work. Yeah, we got it, figure it out. But you have to become invested in returning to your own body or helping your partner return to their own body. So this is where we're gonna get to our takeaway section of this podcast, which is usually give my listeners three things they can start doing tonight to start changing this dynamic in the bedroom. But instead, I want to make this takeaway section your your walkthrough of now, now you know all the different ways this could be occurring in the bedroom. You can go back through your own sex life, whether it's in your own body or with the person you're with right now, that this is making you think, oh, this person might be dissociating with me. What are the things, the best things you can start doing now to address it and move forward? And what does that path towards healing look like?

SPEAKER_00 40:01

That's a really good question. I think number one is to be attuned. I really like what you said about attunement to yourself and connection with yourself. You first need to have your connection with yourself and notice when are when am I feeling triggered? What does dissociation look like and feel like in my body? And knowing what that feels like, and then sharing that with your partner, being able to be attuned with your partner and present with your partner, your partner knowing if you are dissociating and stopping, having a safe and trust position where you can go and feel safe with your partner before re-engaging. And then knowing that it's okay to dissociate as well as not judging the dissociation, and then seeking if you need it, therapy for the dissociation, the trauma, because that is gonna come up because the if the trauma has not been processed fully, it's gonna come up more often. But when you process it, it it gradually does go away. And I've had a lot of success with that with clients.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Having them work through it and getting it to go away.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yes, and reclaiming your sexual voice, which sounds like exactly what you did, and it was you reclaimed your sexual voice.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Out of curiosity, what role does self-pleasure play in this from your perspective? For me, uh creating my own self-pleasure practice was absolutely necessary to getting back to my body and being able to have embodied sex with someone else. I had to really go on that journey with myself first.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

It's a really good question. It's a stepping stone. If you are not able to do it on your own, how are you supposed to do it with another person present with all the things that go on with another person? If you are able to enjoy pleasure, and I also think self-pleasure is safe. For a lot of women, that is the safest version of sex. Because nobody's forcing you to masturbate. You are doing it because you probably want to, and it feels

Stop Reconnect Use A Safe Position

SPEAKER_00 42:09

good. So I think when you have that safe space where you can feel pleasure again, pleasure begins to feel like pleasure instead of the trauma that has happened to you.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

And it's interesting because the self-pleasure practices I put together for women involved owners, it always has that piece. If your body starts to shut down doing during this or turn off or hurt, you stop immediately. And that's that key to teaching your body that to trust you again because it doesn't know the difference, right? Doesn't know the difference. That was it, just when you said that to me, it was like the moment I was like, that's why that piece is so important because your body really doesn't know the difference between what's going on, and so you have to rebuild that trust. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Couldn't have said it better. Yeah, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been incredibly enlightening for me. I feel like I've learned so much. It's been like being in a class for an hour. Also, listeners, if you came to this conversation thinking, well, I haven't experienced trauma or my partner hasn't been assaulted, at least they haven't told me. Hopefully, what you've gotten from this is this is a conversation for everybody because most people have experienced some level of trauma in their life. Most people. Yeah. And it's showing up in the bedroom. And this could be a piece of the puzzle to what's happening in your sex life if you're having any kind of struggles. And most all of us have some struggles in our sex life at some point. And a lot of the stuff in this conversation can really help you start to unravel that. So I would love for you to take a moment to tell my listeners all where they can find out more about you, get in touch with you to start moving forward in their own intimate lives.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Absolutely. So I have a private practice. We are in DC, Virginia, Maryland, and Florida. My goal is to have a therapist in every state. It's like a good five-year goal for me. It's called Cushing Counseling. We also do videos on Instagram, on Facebook, on YouTube, just Cushing Counseling is the handle. And then if you are looking for accessible sex therapy, go to Sextherapypro.ai and you can access the site. And if you want a free month, you can use the code FounderVC.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

There you go, guys. So if you've been looking for help, this is it right here. So again, thank you so much for joining me. This is a really important conversation. I hope that each and every one of you who has tuned in made it to the end and that you'll re-listen to this more than once, that you'll share it with your lovers, with your friends and your family. Because chances are you've got lots of people in your life who need this information. So I really appreciate you joining me today, Vanessa. Thank you so much, Annette. And

Healing With Therapy And Self-Pleasure

SPEAKER_02 45:13

to my listeners, until next time, I'll see y'all in the locker room.