Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Discussions on improving your BJJ, navigating mat-politics and all aspects of the jiu jitsu lifestyle. Multiple weekly episodes for grapplers of any level. Hosted by JT and Joey - Australian jiu jitsu black belts, strength coaches, and creators of Bulletproof For BJJ App. Based out of Sydney, Australia
Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Masters Or Adult: Where Do You Belong?
In this episode we talk about which division you should choose should you have that choice. Masters OR adult division. There are a lot of variables that could impact your choice, how you feel, how many people in your division, have you been competing etcetera. Let this episode be a guide choice you should make when picking which division YOU want to compete in.
---------------------------------------
BULLETPROOF SHIRTS: https://www.fanwear.com.au/products/core-bullet-proof-for-bjj-classic-tee
---------------------------------------
Increase athleticism, reduce injuries and build a grapplers physique with the Bulletproof for BJJ App. Start your FREE 14 Day Trial today:
iOS: https://apps.apple.com/au/app/bulletp...
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/de...
Stay Hydrated with Sodii the tastiest electrolytes in the Game! Get 15% OFF: BULLETPROOF15 https://sodii.com.au/bulletproof
A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. Essentially, at this point the fight is over, so you pretty much flow with the goal who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limitless power? I'm ready. The question you've got to ask yourself Masters or Adult Division? You've hit that time in your life. Maybe you're 30, maybe you're 35. You know you want to compete, but you're like can I still hang with the young guys? I kick their ass at the gym? Do I compete at masters or do I compete at adults? Maybe you're a savage 45 year old. Yeah, I mean, you know, we know, right, there's plenty of people that are timeless in their athleticism and strength and there is advantages to getting older, old man. Strength is a real thing, folks.
Speaker 1:But we had this question coming from our boy, ben Hannawell, and it's you're a big athletic man and you want to test yourself. Maybe you're a strong, older athletic woman and you want to test yourself and you're like do I stay in my age category Because I could do, could do masters one, masters two, or do I bang with the young folks? What's going on? Let's talk about this. Well, so tell me for the uninitiated, or do I bang with the young folks. What's going on? Let's talk about this Well. So tell me, for the uninitiated, why is it even a question? I believe it's a question because we have way more folks getting into jiu-jitsu later in life and they start to get better at it. They start to get fitter and stronger and they're like you know what? I kick everybody my age's butt. I do that and I want to know the truth. I see those young bloods going crazy. Could I be better than them? And I actually make the argument. There's a lot of reasons why you could be better than counterparts 15 years, 20 years younger than you, and it's quite an achievement to be 20 years older than someone and match up with them athletically. Obviously, you've got to do lots of other stuff, but I want to talk pros and cons because there's value to both and we need to break it down. So I'm just thinking too, like in a more established sport, fuck hard to think.
Speaker 1:Let's say football, soccer, yeah, yeah, right, you want to go and play team soccer. You don't go in, mean, sometimes you do. They have like division 12. They have first, they got divisions, but but you usually stick to your age category, right, you generally just you go and you're like, hey, I'm 39, they're like great, you're in the under 40s, right. Or you're like I'm 11, they're like under 12s. Dude, yeah, sure, but it's because it's. And yes, there is an all-age league, which you know. But, um, but it's packed and it's busy and there's a lot of players, so it just makes sense you go, whereas in jiu-jitsu for anyone that's ever gone, if you're a mature age person and you go into anything beyond the adult division, it can be a little bit of a desert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would say this it's been a massive challenge for female competitors where they go to a local comp and it's like, say, you're a 55-kilo local comp, and it's like, say, you're a 55 kilo white belt, and they're like we got no one in your division. We've bumped you up to 75 kilo blue belt, what the hell. And there's one other competitor she's an ex wrestler. You're like what? It's Helen Maroulis, the fuck Olympic champion. Is it blue belt? No, here's's the deal. If you've probably been there before where you've gone to a comp and regardless of your age, there it's a local comp, they haven't necessarily had a widespread of competitors and you get bumped, you get bumped up, or maybe you've entered the master's category and they're like oh, we don't, don't have anyone, you're going in adult. You're like I didn't come here for that.
Speaker 1:So what I wanted to do is say, let's approach it from the kind of local tournament perspective and we can talk worlds separately. Okay, because on a on a on a top international level, there's there's plenty to to be had, plenty of the smoke to be had. Now the reason why this is a question is there is more people getting jiu-jitsu later. They're still fit, they're still capable and they want to test themselves. And it's like is it less safe to go to adult? Will I be more likely to get injured, or does it make more sense for me to just roll with people my own age? And this is the general question and we can unpack that.
Speaker 1:My default, the way I look at it, is this, is that a tournament is a chance to learn. It's a chance to experience things and you will increase your odds that there is, in a local tournament, more people in the adult category than in the master's category this is typically the spread or the master's than in the master's category. This is typically the spread or the master's two, or the master's three, master's three, and it just kind of it thins out. You know it's hard to stay fit and competitive as you get older, yep. So I would say, if you're trying to broaden your experience, I would encourage someone to go in the adult category If you're a fit, confident person. If you are not a fit, confident person, if you are not a fit, confident person and you're just trying your luck and you're like I just want to get some tournament experience, then maybe Masters may be your speed, but the truth is there's more experience to be had in the adult category. That's my take, yeah. So I guess, yeah, I think I agree with that, like generally speaking. But I could also say that I don't think, I don't think you necessarily it'll be different right going into masters versus adult. But you, you potentially come up against fucking some real strong cunts, right, as in you're like maybe it doesn't necessarily slow down much there. You know, like it's still 30 year olds. Oh, no, no, no, right, you know peak athleticism in a sense, wherever you are in the spectrum, right, yeah, I think we're and we are we are going off like a generalized kind of thing here, but for sure like the most, the most mass of people at your standard local tennis court. Um basketball 20 to 30 is adult division and it's going to be in the white belt category white and blue, yeah, and then blue belt's pretty busy and then it just drops off from there over time and it really does. And of course we've been in the game for a lot longer. It's going to be improving now because as there's more people participating, so it won't always be this way, but right now it's still going to be very much biased towards that.
Speaker 1:I think there's a few concerns. This is why people were you know and it brought up a bit of a discussion around it which is great Risk of injury. If I'm older, even though I'm fit and capable, am I risking injury to get in with these young savages? And I actually say you're no less likely to get injured either way. Like it's competition, it can be intense. You come in as prepared as you can be. I don't think injury is a reason for you to not compete. If you're willing to do a competition, you're kind of willing to get injured. Yeah, you're not going to be at any more or less risk based on which division you go. No, and then the second thing on that was because if you're doing IBJJF comps or another competition format where if you lose, you're out.
Speaker 1:People are paying money. So people might be paying money to be in the geek category and then paying money to be in the no geek category and like it's that idea that like, oh, but I don't, I don't want to like, lose first round and then my money's done. You know, like, maybe, if I'm going to spend 70 bucks, 100 bucks, to go in a comp, whatever it might be, I'd rather do my category because I'd like to have more. What you might feel is a better chance of getting the experience, you know, but I actually feel this is underestimating yourself. Well, I mean, yeah, it's a real tricky one about knockout tournaments, isn't it? Yeah, you know it could be a massive division and then you lose the first round and that's your day's over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's also the thing I remember. You know, back in the day I'm sure you're the same You'd enter every division and you'd be like I got four different tournaments today, absolute, yeah, gee, no, gee. And you're like this is fucked. It's a huge day. Yeah, it's just huge. It's probably two days and it's usually way too much stimulus and you're just spending way too much time in a very stuffy, funky type area, um, but you know on that if you so this is where I'm a huge fan of grappling industries and I feel that they have really changed the game for experience.
Speaker 1:So, if you're white or you're blue belt and you are trying to improve your experience and learn from jujitsu, with the grappling industry set up, even if there's two people, you get anywhere from two to three matches. Yeah, that's pretty great, because what I've seen plenty of times is one person will lose the first round and that'll spark them, and then they're like, no, I'm taking it back, and then they win the second, and then they got to go to the third decider and they win that. Yeah, and to get three matches out of just two people, that's actually kind of great. Yeah, I think the round robin format out of like two different opponents yeah, yeah, that's fucking incredible. Yeah, like that's that's. I feel like that's awesome. It's what you're there for.
Speaker 1:If you're gonna pay 50 bucks or more, getting experience is what you fucking want. There's and there there's also something to be said for. You can game it in the complete opposite direction, which is well, you, well, you can go to the, the, the knockout tournament and you can be like checking the divisions which one's quiet, which division's quiet You're like, ooh, masters, there's only one other guy. Fuck yeah, I'm going to give it everything for fucking six minutes and I'm going to get that gold medal. And you know what? You can game it as in if that's your vibe, right. Maybe you don't want to have the eight matches in adult division, I just want that one match and I'm bringing hell, son, maybe. Maybe, I mean it's possible. I mean you get that podium photo. It's just you and the second place guy. And they're like where's third place? You're like, oh, I injured him, he had to go home. It's like, no, there was only two people category. Um, no, I look, tournaments mean different things to different people in terms of testing themselves, all of that. But my take is that it's it's a huge learning experience and it's really good for your jiu-jitsu. So whatever maximizes your like exposure is best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, another concern was intensity and this is probably speaking to what you're talking about there, joe. That fuck competing in adults going to be too intense for me. Like I, just I'm not ready for that smoke. That's what people are telling themselves right prior, but I I think it doesn't matter. Someone who is 30 plus saying that, yeah, yeah, being like, oh man, I don't want these young 20 year olds flying umber. I don't want someone birrim boramboloing me or inadvertently heel hooking me or something, that motherfucker that never taps just because they're fucking youthful, they're so flexible, yeah, yeah, they're not gassing on old age. I think the thing about that is that it doesn't matter who you are, what age you are.
Speaker 1:Tournaments are always intense. Even if you compete in masters that first match, your forearms are going to pump. You're going to. It's going to be way harder than you would think it would be. When you're fresh, your opponent's going to feel really strong, no matter who they are. You're going to be like, oh my God, they're so strong. Yeah, things are going to go wrong. And so I think this idea of intensity if you're prepared to do a tournament, you will experience that competition Just fuckery, no matter what happens, yeah, masters or adult. So factoring that in, don't think you're ducking that by doing masters. No, and I feel like also like it or dislike it, masters has become more competitive, like there is more people who've been doing jujitsu longer and they're getting better, and so the standard at masters is it's becoming elevated because, just to clarify for anyone that's not familiar, you can tell me if this is no longer the case.
Speaker 1:Hey, if you dig the show and you want to rep it, bulletproof for BJJ t-shirts are available now over at Fanware. Best part is mid-weight, so perfect for summer or winter, and nice boxy cut so that you look hench, no matter what's hiding underneath. Variety of colors. Get them now and when you add more than one shirt to your cart you get an automatically applied 10% discount. Go to fanwarecomau and just search for the Bulletproof Collection. Rep the squad, but you can enter any division you want.
Speaker 1:That's below your age? Yes, so if you're 45. Like Megaton, you can choose any Megaton. Yes, he was going out. He's famous for doing that. I think not so much now, because I think he's like in his 60ies and he's had a bunch of injuries. But from 40, yeah, fucking big hench. From 40 up to 60,.
Speaker 1:I think Megaton was just doing the adult category and to varying degrees of success, but he just got to respect. They're like this guy. He's just putting it on the line and he's trusting his skills and I think there is way more to be garnered and learn from a harder test. Like, don't get me wrong, it's still cool If you don't have competition experience and you're older and you're like, fuck, I'm just trying to get familiar here. Sure, do masters. But if you want the test, do adult. That's what I'd say. Even if you lost first round, it could be something special because you might be rolling the next world champion. You could say, hey, I rolled that kid when he was like 18. So I think, from a jiu-jitsu development perspective, I would always default to that.
Speaker 1:But there is also good arguments for why Masters might be suitable for you. Yeah, I would also say too, for folks listening, there is an attitude in, there is a general attitude in jiu-jitsu. It's like oh look, if you want the real deal, you go adults. Anything else you're kind of looking for an easy run. And while it could be said that, yes, adult division is typically going to be probably the hardest, probably the most competitive um of a standard competition um, I think that you should just go with whatever you feel comfortable doing, because I think it's already a huge step for a lot of people to enter to compete. So in that way, like in that way like just getting in and giving it a go and then you can figure it out when you're doing a second or third or you know, down the track. I I think that's spot on. I think if you don't have a lot of competition experience under your belt and you're just trying to find out what it all feels like wherever you're at, masters is a it's a good place to start and that's the great thing about jujitsu it is inclusive. You can do it later in your life and have a great time and make some great friends or great enemies, as the case may be.
Speaker 1:What was the um? What was the q? A question we had about that. The. The guy was like do you remember? Or he was like he was. He was trying to push for some other division to allow for someone who had been at that belt for a long time or something. What would you remember, uh, and we shut it down. We're like no, I I'm not entirely sure. Okay, I'll try and recall. No, no, no, I do vaguely recall that, and I think the difficulty is that not all belts are made equal right.
Speaker 1:So you've got someone who's done eight years on a belt and you just got yours, and you might be a similar age, but that person is like ex-special forces, or you know john wick out there yeah, they're john wick. Or they're like, or you see. Or you see some like like judo olympian yeah, in a blue belt comp, bro, and helen maroulis is an olympic gold medalist, olympic bronze medalist, and and BJJ folks are blowing up Wrestling, or judo Wrestling, right on Because she's entering no-gi tournaments. You're like get out, yeah, and you're like, fuck, it's how the cookie crumbles. What are you going to do? Yeah, but that's what's happening to us, right? So I guess you want to appreciate that, whatever your level is, that's great, and that you're going to learn from getting wrecked by whoever. Or you're going to learn a lot from overcoming and gritting out a really tough match against someone who you didn't even realize is a Division I wrestler and you just tap them or whatever it might be. But here's the challenge Injury. It doesn't matter what you do, injury is part of BJJ, so you can't avoid that.
Speaker 1:The experience piece. If you can get more experience, wherever it lies, I would say you know, go there. But here's the really positive thing about Masters BJJ the Masters category, like Masters Worlds, is the biggest comp, bigger than anything. So normal world championships is like 3,500, 4,000 people, masters Worlds. I think it topped out last year at like 15,000 or like 14,500 competitors. That's fucking nuts.
Speaker 1:And what's great about that is, well, it's kind of tough too. If you're a Masters 2 black belt, you gonna have to fight paulo meow, you're gonna have masters three, it's shanji, yeah, it doesn't matter. Like all of yesterday's heroes are there, they're there. And levato, you know, like they're all. Like bagna, bagna, you know people are just, they're just dusting off the gi and just jumping in or whatever it might be. No, gi too, yeah, at that level it's. It's equally as ferocious, yeah, and there's way more.
Speaker 1:You could probably argue like way more competition experience, huge, at at that upper end of the belt, for sure. But the category, what I'd say is the huge value is that you can compete at Masters and then eventually go to masters worlds. But just know it's not less of a challenge. Like, yeah, adults going to be ultra tough, but I mean maybe not at the, at the lower belts though. No, no, I still think competitors, well, that's. It's the volume, yeah, but then the skill, the skill level, you would think would be equitable, possibly.
Speaker 1:But what I, what I wanted to say, and this is the difficulty, right, talk about like old man strength, old person strength what have you? As you get older, it is actually easier to be like. You build up tendon and ligament strength, you build up resentments, you build up a degree of disappointment in your lack of achievement in your life and you feel the need to strangle someone. You get that opportunity and you don't have to go to jail. It's lovely. But, that said, it is harder to stay fitter, like with life, with everything building up, so your ability to be resilient for five, six, seven, eight matches is going down, you know. So I think this is the challenge masters, awesome, you will get a match. But when you go to that world's level, the this, you got to be prepared for a lot of matches. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's a huge tournament, yeah, yeah, fucking earth. And so I?
Speaker 1:I don't think the conversation when we had it with ben was like oh, masters is my easier option. I would say, not necessarily Depends on the comp. Yeah, and when you have more of the local comp, you're going to get more competition at adult, but when you go to international, actually, masters is way bigger. So you almost need a slightly different strategy. You need to be fitter to handle that. And then being stronger means you probably do better earlier. And I look, you know, I've had people say to me oh man, would you compete masters? Me personally, no, I, if I'm going to do a competition, I'd like to just do adult black belt. And you know, if I'm not up to scratch and I get my ass kicked, then you know, so be it. But everybody's different and I think that if you're willing to go in a competition, kudos respect, but depending on how you want to gain experience and improve, that will dictate if you go adult or you go master's.
Speaker 1:Well, a listener just called in and they wanted to know how likely are you to compete again, jt? Oh well, apparently there's this thing called the giles trials. Uh, nah, I, I think the hardest thing for me is that I can't do anything halfway. So, joe, joe will be like just doing the podcast solo for six months, like so it's become a solo podcast. Uh, if you didn't know, jt's gone back to full-time jiu-jitsu. He doesn't do anything else. He's divorced now, he's living out of his car, but he's back on the competition scene. So not very likely is what you're saying.
Speaker 1:No, I think the next time I compete will probably be a wrestling comp or a judo comp. Right, that's more likely because, like it's for me, it's just too much fun to watch people like Kyle Rudolph or like Lucas Cannard or like Tito, like these people who, to me, were kids when I was competitive as a purple or brown belt and now they're grown-ass men destroying the black belt level. I'm just like. It's awesome for me. I enjoy not being amongst that because, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:Even though I enjoy the stress of competition, uh, it doesn't make me a better human. I mean, you probably already think I'm a terrible human, like a true politician. I just love to watch the guys you know yeah, no, no. My point there is, though like, if I were going to do it, I would go adults, but it's like, yeah, but you're not going to do it. Right, who says, who's that? It's possible what you just said, no, no, in a roundabout way. No, no, no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just, like you said, like a true politician.
Speaker 1:I could fucking flip-flop at any time. It could fucking happen. Man, I never, I never want to say I never want to say never because it forces me to stay in shape. If I'd retired in my mind, then there'd be no pushing of any of any sort, I'd blow out. I'd become like fucking Ronaldo, like put on a hundred kilos.
Speaker 1:There's um, I've, I've heard of people. Uh, I don't know if this is such a thing now, but I know women I used to train with would actually like be in touch with the other women in the state and it would be like, hey, are you going to be signing up for that next comp? Like they would do a bit of networking. But okay, cool, We'll go. And it's like they turn up to a comp and there's literally no one there, whereas I know, as a dude, even when people have dropped out, like from the division that I've been in, there's always been someone they've been able to match me up with. Sure, you know, so it's. But I think this is the great thing about competition.
Speaker 1:Whether you decide you're going to do masters or you decide you're going to do adult, you're going to make friends, maybe a few enemies, but you're going to connect with people. And then you start talking and it's like, oh, you're doing that. Yeah, I'm doing naga. Okay, cool, cool, I'll see you at the open or whatever, and then so just it. But it just becomes like an amazing way, as an adult, to make a social network, which we often miss out on as older humans because it's not school, it's not, it's not a sports team per se, but being involved in this social activity, it connects you with more folks and I think that makes it really worthwhile. Boom, boom, there it is, fam. We appreciate y'all. And if you made it this far into the episode, you know what we need. We need y'all to like and subscribe because it means more good folks like you get to hear more good stuff like this. Appreciate y'all.
