Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
Discussions on improving your BJJ, navigating mat-politics and all aspects of the jiu jitsu lifestyle. Multiple weekly episodes for grapplers of any level. Hosted by JT and Joey - Australian jiu jitsu black belts, strength coaches, and creators of Bulletproof For BJJ App. Based out of Sydney, Australia
Bulletproof For BJJ Podcast
We've Trained 1000s Of BJJ Athletes, This Is The Best Way To Train
There's been some discourse about what the best method of training is for jiu jitsu folks. Some front runners of the S&C industry are saying barbell is the best tool for this. We say you might need a more diversified approach and that no one thing can be absolute. Learn more about how you should train here...
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A good martial artist does not become tense but ready. Essentially, at this point the fight is over, so you pretty much flow with the goal. Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limitless power?
Speaker 2:I'm ready.
Speaker 1:The barbell is the best tool for BJJ's strength. Ooh, is this a controversial statement or is this just facts? Many people are in love with a barbell. They live and die by the barbell and we need to talk about whether or not this is valid for BJJ folks.
Speaker 2:Wait, wait. Are we saying it is Because I don't agree with?
Speaker 1:that statement. Oh, my fucking, look at you. Look at you coming in with a disagreement. Yeah, not at all, no, okay, well, it's a statement that people have said.
Speaker 2:Oh, I see, and we need to discuss. Okay, right. Whoa Joe was about to leap across the couch and punch me in the face.
Speaker 1:You might notice that Joe has a little bit of color above his eye. That's jujitsu related. It's not because I gave it to him, because he's getting out of line.
Speaker 2:Here's what I did. I taught a class on a monday morning, which was, uh, the monday first monday back after the weekend grading.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was a packed class.
Speaker 2:Everyone was like fucking pumped, let's go. Two new brown belts on the mats, bunch of blue belts striped up. Couple new blue belts, I think couple new. Yeah, everyone was fucking frothy as and, uh, one of the brown belts.
Speaker 2:Big shout out to jono just it was just a guard moment clipped me in the eye was no big deal, but just one of those ones. It was innocuous at the time, boom, but then I instantly felt my eye hanging over. Yeah, hanging over that's. It's very, it's very interesting when your vision, when all of a sudden you've got a new thing introduced to your field of vision, yeah, it's kind of disconcerting. Oh yeah, it makes me think about some of those ufc fighters, like they get big split.
Speaker 2:Mike Perry yeah, and like skin that's maybe hanging over the eye, you're just like fuck, that's got to really throw you off. It's a brutal thing, but it's I know what it's like guys, that's what I'm saying. I know what you know. Fucking Marvin Eastman, I feel your pain.
Speaker 1:Back to the topic at hand Barbells.
Speaker 2:Why do people love a barbell? Well, barbells, I mean barbells are the like. Barbells are like kind of, in a way, the the pinnacle kind of tool of strength and conditioning of strengths. Yeah, yeah and so, um, I would say, like if you go to the commercial gym, though, like if you go to your commercial gym, 10 years ago, barbells weren't such a thing like they're in there yeah, but your classic like fitness first or globo gym, it didn't have like multiple squat racks they might have had one.
Speaker 2:That's right, sure, and so yeah, you can see, nowadays most, most gyms that are half decent will have at least a few squat racks. They'll have multiple barbells, maybe safety bars or a trap bar Like it's the thing right.
Speaker 1:Lifting platform yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's definitely like um from you know, but if you're in the world of strength conditioning, which is really at the level of athletes, right, Training sports teams and athletes and whatnot, the barbell is synonymous with that world.
Speaker 1:It is, but I think you can definitely say that the influence of things outside of. So if we think about crossfit or we think about now the the growth in power lifting because of popular movements within fitness, you then see more of that like. In the same way, if you looked at the gym 20 years ago, everyone had fit balls. You know swiss balls everyone had.
Speaker 2:You don't see any fucking TRX anymore, thank God.
Speaker 1:No, you're seeing yeah, there might be a cheeky set of Olympic rings in there.
Speaker 2:You see, rings Always Fuck, yeah, yeah, it's great, yeah, well, they're up there with barbells, well ooh.
Speaker 1:I mean Whoa, hey, saying you're on now, the Russians did everything to the nth degree. Whatever it takes, well, let's talk about it. So my take on this and this is coming from people far smarter than me, and I've kind of filtered it and thought how does that apply? I believe a barbell is fantastic for developing maximal levels of strength, but that doesn't mean it is the be all and end all. Now, if we look at Olympic lifting, right, olympic lifting has become so popular in the last probably 10, 15 years and I would actually give a lot of credit to CrossFit for bringing Olympic lifting to the masses Absolutely, because before that you didn't see dudes doing like snatches and clean injury like that was very so you didn't say women, yeah, I mean you said yeah, yeah, that's right, like it really brought it back into the the mainstream.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's become more fashionable now for folks to be doing that, and that's awesome because that is great for speed and power development and all of that. But what what I'd say is like, with the growth of instagram and social media, people want to put some fucking glory, fucking lifts on the internet, like the fact that we have a very easy platform to share videos, whether it be youtube or instagram. People like I want to show my max. I want a deadlift, I want to have a huge bench press. I want to.
Speaker 2:So I think I mean just to sorry to cut, but before the showing of it. Yeah, Even the appreciation of strength, yes, Wasn't a thing 20 years ago right, it wasn't as no like no, like I know when I, when I started going to the gym as a fucking 16 year old or whatever, it was never about getting strong, it's about getting big jacked yeah, yeah, and so it was always like 8 to 12 reps.
Speaker 2:There was like these things that are now synonymous, in that most people listening will be like oh, five by five. Sure you know?
Speaker 1:five three one five three one german volume training.
Speaker 2:None of that shit was spoken about in general fitness. No, there's three sets of eight to 12. Yeah, get the pump, do the drop set. Yeah, you know. And so, so. So now, yeah, but, but so to that point that appreciation has come about and then lay it on top, is we can now share it as well?
Speaker 1:Definitely and and you know, look, it's fucking awesome If someone's got a really big deadlift or a great back squat or you know people can power, clean or snatch or weight. That's really good. But this is what I wanted to say relevant to that. If you go into most gyms, the gym is dominated like I'm talking like a public kind of global gym.
Speaker 1:It is dominated by dumbbells and machines, like if you look at the floor space, machines is vastly the winner in terms of floor space, the reason why people are getting into machines is it's not complicated, you know like you can just sit down Hard to fuck it up, Pick the weight and do the reps, which is really good for lowering the bar to entry, lowering the barrier to entry to lifting. So if that's what gets you in, that's good. But this is what I would say. There are limitations to the barbell in terms of its application for BJJ. Now, Dr Mike Israetel, he might not agree with me, that's fine. Even our friend Charles Owen Price, he might not agree with me maybe, but I would say I want you to list out every potential strength coach that might not agree with you.
Speaker 1:Disagree Right now. We can start now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's this other guy.
Speaker 1:I once saw he's got glasses all the time, and in front of me he says but yeah, so let's go back to the maximal strength thing.
Speaker 2:The barbell is ergonomically designed so that you can grip it real easy and you can lift heavy weights. Yes, and if we take like a deadlift or a squat or a press or a bench, um, these are like really simple. They're simple movements, yeah, and so the barbell allows you to load up a fucking shit ton of weight, yeah, um but there are limitations to that right there are.
Speaker 1:And also when you start in the gym, don't get me wrong. Understanding how to use a barbell is great, but it's also there may be some things you need to do first before you kind of qualify yourself to just go to the barbell. You know you may have some preexisting issues with your body, whether it be a range of motion thing or just proprioception, understanding how your body works. That if you're working with some dumbbells or working with some kettlebells, that could better orient you to progress you to a barbell. So I think just going straight to the barbell isn't always the way and that's why it's good to look at some other things. Now, why am I a big fan of kettlebells? Let's just step to the side for a second.
Speaker 1:If you look at the hinge pattern with a kettlebell, it allows the weight to travel back between your legs, which gives you a pre-stretch in your hamstrings. The limitation on a barbell is it stops at your shins. So, yeah, you can use your hamstrings in a lot of ways, even if you go to like a movement like a Jefferson curl or like a Zurcher position. What have you? You go to like a movement like a jefferson curl or like a zurcher position, what have you?
Speaker 1:But because the weight with a kettlebell is displaced from where you're gripping it and it can travel between your legs, it has a plyometric effect. So you get this mad stretch effect in the hamstrings and boom, contract lengthening, short, shortening. And you, you have to do it fucking fast, whether you're cleaning, swinging or snatching. The kettlebell is actually superior to the barbell for a plyometric effect for your posterior chain. Fuck with me. That's a good point, yeah. And so if we look at, say, olympic lifters and they can lift the maximal weight above their head in the least amount of reps kettlebell lifters like the world champions. My friend James Ross just competed at the world championship. Shout out, he got silver.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, like second in the world. It's amazing His weight category. They lift the most weight overhead in 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right, because they do a shitload of repetitions. A ton of reps with you know, basically 32 kilos in each hand which is nuts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they just yeah it's fucking.
Speaker 1:They work fucking non-stop for 10 minutes it's grueling.
Speaker 2:So yeah, yeah, which I mean and to that point right like I think we can all in in, in simple terms, we can see the benefit of maximum strength you're like, fuck yeah, it's really good to just be like brutally strong, but like, if you think about a six or an eight or a 10 minute round in jujitsu, if you can be continuously strong lifting weights for 10 minutes wait, that's totally different to maximal strength, but it's also super beneficial. It's very hard to go. This one's better than that one.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And so there's a uniqueness to being able to train that capacity. I think the hardest thing I'm not doing fucking 10-minute sets, let's just be clear. No, but I think the hardest thing.
Speaker 1:That One of the hardest things for most folks when they're like but what am I meant to do? Like, I just want a simple answer, right For all of us. We don't want to fucking get into the science and the nerdiness of all the shit You're just like, just tell me the thing to do. So that way, the barbell is like a really simple answer and the progression's very it's very logical. I can do a bit more weight, I can do a bit more reps or I can do a bit more range of motion, potentially right. The thing about a kettlebell which makes it maybe a little bit less accessible is it is more technical. You can fuck it up more, you can smash yourself a bit more. Like it is more technical. Therefore, you're like I don't want to fuck with that, I just want to do the thing. And I think this is why, to this day, barb, uh, dumbbells and machines are still so popular, because it doesn't require any thinking are you just on that?
Speaker 2:do you think that the kettlebell is actually more technical, or is it that?
Speaker 1:yes, the movements we take a hundred percent no, but hear me out, the listen the.
Speaker 2:The movements we take as fundamental in kettlebells are different to what we take in barbell. As an example, uh like, if you compare a kettlebell deadlift and a barbell deadlift, there's no, great difference.
Speaker 1:No, no, but when we're talking about the, the swing, but this is what I'm talking about, right, you're.
Speaker 2:So if you compare a swing, then with a barbell clean or a snatch, yeah, but it's not the same, like there's no movement, that mimics the swing. No, no, no. But I think that a lot of those foundational kettlebell movements are more technical lifts. They are, but if you just do goblet squats, single arm presses, deadlift, it's simple shit.
Speaker 1:It's not highly technical no, but in terms of the grip and the position with the kettlebell it is more technical, like it just requires more understanding. It's not that like oh, you're going to be some genius to do them. Once you learn them, it's fine. But that's the problem. Most folks are out there just trying to do their thing and they're they're getting in awkward positions. They're like oh, this sucks with a dumbbell. If you don't grip the dumbbell and just hold it, it's going to fucking roll out your head. It's not going to.
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Speaker 1:Kettlebell a little bit different, yeah, and so I think the simplicity of the barbell and the simplicity of other tools like a dumbbell, yeah. But then I want to step sideways here and I want to go. You know what the? The progression in my mind in trying to work out what is the best tool for the job more recently for me has been, uh, the sandbag. Why do say this? Because it's so simple. It's even more simple than a barbell. As much as you can tell somebody, hey, I suggest you pick it up in this way and that way. It's raw strength, it is the rawest strength, because also, a sandbag doesn't just stay in a uniform position, it slops around on you, it moves. And, mate, I nearly herniated every disc in my back last night because I had a. It was a 140-kilo sandbag, but it was only filled to 120. So it was loose Extra sloppy.
Speaker 1:Oh, so much harder, so much fucking harder. Like in mid-lift it shifted forward and I was like it's kind of like if you're grappling a human, you go lift. It shifted forward and I was like it's kind of like if you're grappling a human, you you go to like try and put someone down and they move and you're like, oh fuck, it's so hard to deal with. So I was surprised. It actually really blew my mind that how simple but also how hard training with a sandbag was and what that did for my strength. Yeah, like it. Just, I was so surprised because I used to think, nah, barbell, barbells, kettlebells like this is the way I started fucking with sandbags. And I was like, no, I've changed my mind.
Speaker 2:Look, I think any tool, like any of the tools, are effective, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, they can be.
Speaker 2:I think that the problem that most people face and I'm looking at like the less experienced training individuals is that they go all in on one yeah. And so it's like, oh, I'm a barbell guy, oh, I'm a kettlebell guy, yeah, and we can make some assumptions there. But you know, if you're all in on the barbell and, let's say, powerlifting is your thing, you're great in those positions. But as soon as you're taken onto one leg or you're taken into a split stance position, you're not particularly stable, right. But then, similarly, I know some absolute kettlebell advocates who just fuck around and never actually get strong. That's right. They never put on any mass because they're always fucking around with new shit, kettlebell flows and whatnot. And if we look at the two camps, this is kind of where they throw shit at one another. Sure, the sweet spot, as we see it, is the mix of both yeah, and the best folks do do both.
Speaker 1:Like even the Olympic lifters, like, even if you look at the top level, like Lu Xiaojun, li Huohua, who's like their heavyweight lifter from China, olympic lifter. When you see them do their accessories, they're doing all kinds of funky shit. They're doing like side bends on the GHD. They're doing like fucking sloppy superpower reps on heavy rows. Like they're doing stuff where you're like, oh, that looks people like, oh, that's so bro-ish. It's like, no, they're all about force development. So do whatever it takes to produce maximum force. They actually don't give a shit what it looks like. So when they're under the barbell, they've earned the right to do some sloppy reps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the interesting thing is like the strictest form reps, which is what I was told right when I was 18. And in the gym these older bodybuilders like super juiced up, coming over and be like, hey, young blood, let me fucking tell you Like, don't swing, do this like strict form, maximum control. Like that's all applicable to time under tension and building muscle, but that doesn't mean that's the best thing for producing force or strength necessarily and I think this is where you know I'm good good advice to your 18 year old self for sure, right.
Speaker 2:But then there's a point that comes. Okay, you can let the cat out of the bag a bit and fucking rip in son oh, but here's the, the challenge I feel with all of this.
Speaker 1:Whatever you, however you identify, joe, do you identify as a barbell guy? Are you a kettlebell guy? You're an everything guy, you're a movement guy. I'm jungle brothers. To the core, bro, I'm everything yeah, he's, he's a man of the jungle, he's fucking tarzan. Um, I think, ultimately, the hardest thing is knowing the right tool for the job, also at the right time, like this is. This is where having a trainer and having a bit of outside outside program having a coach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it helps you, because you might start down a path and then you're like, fuck, this doesn't. It's not necessarily giving you what you wanted or it's not meeting your goals, and so we shouldn't be too attached to one tool. We should have an open minded approach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think an easy, an easy way for folks to frame it in their mind is like do one thing. If like go in on that thing and get real good at it for six to 12 months and then do something else, yeah, so say, you spend the next year like I'm going to go super hard on um, I don't know powerlifting, squat, bench dead, that's my whole shit. Do it for a year, get strong at it, you know, join that gym, go in that world and then fuck off and go and fucking take up kettlebell class or just do split squats and single arm presses and get ups for six to 12 months and bounce back and this way you kind of round out your strength development, don't you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the thing that has been missing for the best part with a lot of what we see in fitness is proper periodization. You know the reason why the Russians were so good and the Bulgarians and any major nation that has achieved a lot at a highest level. They will be working their athletes through these various levels of tension and lifting. So some time of the year they're going really heavy and some time of the year they're going lighter and they would do gymnastics training. They do body weight training as well as barbell training. It's just people didn't see that shit so they didn't actually understand how well-rounded those athletes were and we definitely encourage folks to be well-rounded. Got to be well-rounded.
Speaker 2:Got to be well-rounded there it is folks Got to get after it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Now, if you want to get well-rounded, check out our app. It's got all the bits and pieces you need to stay on track, get fit and be well-rounded. Take our 14-day free trial. Just check out Bulletproof for BJJ in the App Store or the Play Store. You
