Unlock the sun's potential with EcoEthic Solar's dynamic pair, Cynthia Kaminsky and Chris Bostion, as they cast a light on off-grid solar solutions like you've never seen before. They are not just illuminating the path to energy independence; they are revolutionizing the way we think about power in our sheds and homes. Step into a world where the complexities of solar energy become clear, thanks to their interactive presentations and hands-on training. Cynthia and Chris don't just preach about solar arrays and battery sizing; they ensure you grasp the concept of your 'nighttime gas tank' and the importance of sizing your solar system just right.
Feel the shed industry's pulse as it throbs with the adoption of solar products, a narrative brought to life with the authentic experiences of working with the Amish and expanding across state lines. This episode isn't just about solar panels; it's a masterclass in customer satisfaction. Get the insider scoop on how EcoEthic Solar is transforming power usage in workshops and recreational spaces, all while ensuring that the expectations of shed customers are not only met but exceeded with each solar installation.
But before we go, let's soar into the future of solar power, where advancements are making this renewable energy source more accessible than ever. Imagine a world where your shed not only shelters your tools but powers them too—with EcoEthic Solar leading the charge, that future is almost here. Tune in, and step into the sunshine of sustainable living, where laughter and learning go hand-in-hand.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.
To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.
To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
LuxGuard
My Shed
Shed Hub
Digital Shed Builder
iFAB
Unlock the sun's potential with EcoEthic Solar's dynamic pair, Cynthia Kaminsky and Chris Bostion, as they cast a light on off-grid solar solutions like you've never seen before. They are not just illuminating the path to energy independence; they are revolutionizing the way we think about power in our sheds and homes. Step into a world where the complexities of solar energy become clear, thanks to their interactive presentations and hands-on training. Cynthia and Chris don't just preach about solar arrays and battery sizing; they ensure you grasp the concept of your 'nighttime gas tank' and the importance of sizing your solar system just right.
Feel the shed industry's pulse as it throbs with the adoption of solar products, a narrative brought to life with the authentic experiences of working with the Amish and expanding across state lines. This episode isn't just about solar panels; it's a masterclass in customer satisfaction. Get the insider scoop on how EcoEthic Solar is transforming power usage in workshops and recreational spaces, all while ensuring that the expectations of shed customers are not only met but exceeded with each solar installation.
But before we go, let's soar into the future of solar power, where advancements are making this renewable energy source more accessible than ever. Imagine a world where your shed not only shelters your tools but powers them too—with EcoEthic Solar leading the charge, that future is almost here. Tune in, and step into the sunshine of sustainable living, where laughter and learning go hand-in-hand.
For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.
Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.
To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.
To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.
This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Union Grove Lumber
LuxGuard
My Shed
Shed Hub
Digital Shed Builder
iFAB
Hey, this is Mo Lunsford at Union Grove Lumber Studios and this is the Shed Geek. We want to welcome you to today's episode. Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast, round number two. We need like one of those ding, ding, ding or the bells coming in. Round number two here with Chris and Cynthia. We introduced you guys before on the previous podcast, but for those who haven't listened to it, introduce yourself again if you don't care, and your company what you guys do. How about that?
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Sure, so my name is Cynthia Kaminsky and this is my lead engineer and brains, Chris Bostian. We own and operate EcoEthic Solar, based in North Carolina, Lexington, . We specialize in off-grid solar, so getting power to people, where they can store their power, use their power, be independent and not have to rely on anyone else. Um, Chris, do you want to add to that?
SHED GEEK:nope, that's pretty good, he said no, I think, I think you got it uh, I, I love first of all that, like you guys's names are cool. First of all, Cynthia Kaminski. Chris Bostion like I wish I had a name like Chris Bostion. It sounds so cool. It really does. Um, that's a weird thing, but every time I see you guys's name, like in the phone or whenever we're corresponding through email, I'm always like they've got like the coolest names, the coolest personalities and then like a really cool product, uh, and a product that is, as we discussed here today.
SHED GEEK:We wanted to go a little bit deeper than just sort of an introduction to who you are, what solar is. We can, we can rehash some of that. Maybe we should do some of that today, but, um, it's, it's it's sort of a product of the future, you know, I mean, I think that's the way I look at it is. Uh and we made this comment earlier uh, how do you think you've peaked yet as a company? I don't even think it's near. Like what potential it has, uh, not just in the shed space, but even just, uh, what solar can and will be in the future. You guys agree with that?
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:people are still learning what solar is and how it actually works and, like, say, there's been a lot of misinformation early on and misuse of the technology so that it's not been applied to its max potential. And so we're sort of in one of those gray areas where it could take off and do well if it's sold, presented, explained and applied right, or it could have a premature you know death if individuals and companies continue to apply it wrong, promise it wrong, explain it wrong, because it's all about how the consumers are approached. Right Because they drive every market. So if the consumers are given honesty and integrity and value, then it can take off and do great things. But if it is misrepresented and mispromised and people are underwhelmed and disappointed, it could crash before it gets off the ground.
SHED GEEK:Man perfect and your heart is education. So I love that, because you really want the consumer to be educated. Customer service is a driving force for you guys as well, but just you know, specifically whenever it comes to education, that just seems so valuable that the customer understands. So what do you do in the, let's say, in the shed industry? How do you approach that educational content to those who are wanting to know more about solar?
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Yeah. So we started off with a PowerPoint presentation for the lot dealers and the manufacturers with voiceover, and then we go out as often as we can in person to do training and just say, okay, this is because the battery is the hardest thing. The battery is your nighttime gas tank and that determines how long you can run at night, and it really depends on what you can run by how big your gas tank. And so we start with well, what are your needs? You know how are you going to use your space and then, depending on the appliance list, we have to pick the right battery bank size. After you have the battery bank size, then you have to say, okay, here's the array size you need to recharge, Because the array is like going to a gas pump.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Have you ever been to a slow pump where it just takes forever? That's an undersized array for a large battery bank, so it's not going to recharge quickly. Well, we only get in. We're in North Carolina right now. Our latitude gets between three and five solar hours per day, More five in the summer, more three in the winter. So we want to stay within that range on recharge so that you get recharge in one day in ideal conditions. And then if you go to, you know, go back to the gas tank pump analogy. If you have a good fast pump that's like having a properly sized array for the battery bank your recharge is going to be within that time frame. And so that's part of the important part, because then we want overproduction, not underproduction, because we don't want anybody left in the middle of the night or early morning with no power.
SHED GEEK:So there's parts of the country, I'm assuming, or the world that has different peaks, I'm assuming. So there's probably some more prominent potential customers out there.
CHRIS BOSTION:Yeah. So in like Arizona you're going to get more sun hours than you would in Minnesota. In somewhere like Minnesota the latitude you're higher up and the angle of the sun is different. So during the winter months, you know let's just use Alaska as an example your panels almost have to be at 90 degrees because the sun is just coming straight across the sky. It's not in this high up, but in these latitudes the sun is a little bit higher, so the angle is determined by that, because you want the sun's angle to be directly onto the panel. So that's going to give you more production in a lower latitude where the panel can be more flat than in a higher.
SHED GEEK:That's definitely. I feel like the customer acquisition time for you guys is important because I feel like, for for you, you want to spend a lot of time making sure that people understand it well enough. Um and and and. You kind of have like both sides. You have the manufacturing side to educate and then you also have the consumer base to educate, right? So it's a bit of a bit of a two-sided marketplace here.
CHRIS BOSTION:You've got the end user, but then you have the installation as well, and there's there's a lot of education on our part, and that's what we try to do with all of our customers is really educate them on how to sell it, on how to present it to your customers honestly, and if it's not going to work for the customer, we don't want that sale. We want the customer to be happy with the product and you know, if the sun's shining, it's great. If you're in the trees and there's no sun, that's not the product for them.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, just not going to work. It's pretty simple. What was the line we used earlier? Solar?
CHRIS BOSTION:It works great when the sun's shining.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, pretty self-explanatory. Solar works well when the sun's shining. Well, what's your response been from the shed industry since our last time talking you guys? I've seen you at the Shed Builder Expo, Mm-hmm, and I know you've been working in or with some of the people in the industry for some time now. But curious what your response has been so far.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:We get a lot of calls from lot dealers, especially ones that we worked with before the Sun Saver. They want it, they know they can sell it, they're interested. But, like we talked about last time, shed Market is a lot of consignment based and you know is a lot of consignment based and you know we are not a huge company. We started, like we said last time, out of our garage. So we didn't start with capital, we started with integrity and good customer service and that's what a lot has allowed us to grow and that's what we're still leaning on. So we can't float all these demos to go out to lot dealers. So we were trying to figure out financing so that they can do maybe a rent program and keep it on site to have a physical, tangible product to show customers and demonstrate. But some of the manufacturers have jumped on board.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:We've ended up working with a lot of the Amish community, which has been fantastic because they're just, they're very honest, they're very clear, they're very polite.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Because they're just, they're very honest, they're very clear, they're very polite, they're just lovely to work with, very to the point, which I appreciate.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:And so we're in Illinois, california, oregon, virginia and Georgia right now and we have inquiries in Texas and some of the states beside Oregon, washington State and Wyoming, I believe. So I mean we're getting out there. It's just like I say, it's slow to adopt and we're still trying to get the education part really nailed down. So I'm trying to coordinate with these folks in different states to get with them on their vendor days or their dealer days so that we can have face time at high, high value for time, right? So instead of going on a road trip and hitting individuals over two weeks, if we can go out in you know two days and at one of their meetings and hit 30 of their people and have the Q&A, have the in-person demonstration, then it's more value added for time, because time is a thing we're all fighting. Whether you're in business or not, time is the most valuable asset that we have and we're not promised tomorrow.
SHED GEEK:I love it. You guys should start a podcast.
CHRIS BOSTION:I'm telling you you guys are great.
SHED GEEK:The dealer says I can sell this. Yes, okay, I get that mentality. The dealer says I can sell this. I, uh, I wish my company would do more things right, because I could sell this or these added things. Um, the manufacturer says, okay, maybe we can uh install these, but we got to get all the working parts of this puzzle put together. Yes, um, companies sometimes use third-party haulers, so now you've got to coordinate with the hauler because you got to get, uh, everything set in the right place. Yes, um, even in-house, there's just potential for for failure because of communication from top to bottom right, and when I say top to bottom, what I should mean is from the sale through all of the processes to where the building gets to the customer yeah, it's the old telephone game, right yes the more people in line, you start with one person with a phrase.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:By the time it gets to the end it's warped or it's it's lost, and so and I understand, the longer the chain, the harder it is to maintain communication. Because the idea is the customer should fill out a little sheet that we provide that says here's the appliances I want to run, here's how often I'm going to use the shed and here's my placement, so it faces south. And then they can say, okay, we're going to put the panel on the side of the ridge line. The problem is most people don't consider north, southeast, west anymore. We're beyond that for technology. You know, back in columbus's time, or even in our great-grandparents time, they were very in tune to navigation and the sky and you know crops and all that. So now we're a little more removed from nature and we don't think about it. So someone comes in and they're not at home. And which way is south at your home? I don't know, I don't think about it anymore. And so for them to orient it right, you would have to bring up and it's an extra step on the salesperson's side right Bring up Google Maps, bring up the address, look at the orientation and say, okay, where would you like this? Ideally it would be this orientation. So we have that nice south and then that gets conveyed to the driver.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:The fear on the manufacturer side, which is justified, is if this is not communicated correctly and the panel's placed on the wrong side, and we get it delivered and the panel's facing north oops, who's gonna go change the panel? We don't want to have to have a crew to go out there and move the panel when it wasn't placed in the right spot in the first place, which is valid, um. And then, like you said, you know the shed haulers they may or may not know, don't tuck the shed into the trees, you know, don't turn the shed this other way. So it's still a little bit of education and it's a little bit more forethought. I guess that is just. You've got your job already. Right Now you're just adding a little more to your plate and we don't want to add any more than we have to.
CHRIS BOSTION:Yeah, but it's an important part and so again, I understand the hesitation but it should be seen as value added to the shed right, because now, instead of just having just a plain shed with no power, you can have a small workshop. You can have lights when you're going to look for your things.
CHRIS BOSTION:That's really important to people because a lot more people are getting into DIY and doing a lot of projects at home, which is great. It's good that people are being more hands-on, but that requires power, whether it's to charge your drill batteries or run a saw or you know, Get the kids out for the afternoon into the.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:I want to call it bunker house, but the playhouse.
CHRIS BOSTION:Yeah, and you know kids nowadays they have to have their batteries charged, they have to have their technology and their Wi-Fi and all those things, and this product fits that need. It allows for those products to be used. You know you have to have some sort of power and running a drop cord in a lot of cases is not the best way to do it, because people forget and then they just mow over it yeah, absolutely or it's an underside drop, undersized yeah so let's yeah, absolutely uh.
SHED GEEK:So let's talk, let let's go more generalized, more generalized questions that maybe a salesperson, a manufacturer, a hauler might have. Let's kind of go through that. For the hauler, I feel like it's fairly simplistic. For them, it's about making sure to get delivery facing the direction it needs to be faced. That's agreed upon at the time of the sale. Yes, correct. So as long as it's communicated effectively to the hauler, the barrier to entry for failure for them is much lower, because they just have to put this in the right spot, as long as that information was conveyed well to them. So then I think the bigger task becomes the salesperson and the manufacturer.
SHED GEEK:And in a industry that is, uh, what's what's the word I like to use? Um, we're just. We have so many different ways of doing this. You have consignment, you have wholesale purchase. You know, you have some vertical, integrated companies that do everything in-house, from rent to own, to manufacturing, to sales, to delivery, some that use third party for different things, some that have, you know, the consignment lot. So they're independent contractors versus company employees.
SHED GEEK:Um, there's just a. There a there's a lot to overcome there. Uh, when you say you do these demos, I love the idea of, like you guys, getting in front of, um, like Christmas parties, dealer days, grand openings, where an entire company might be together for one afternoon, right, where you could take oh, I don't't know an hour, do a powerpoint presentation, but really go into the the depths of the questions so that the dealers would help understand how to sell it, but also the manufacturers would would understand the responsibility that if, if they bought it. Um, yeah, I love that idea. I, however, I don't know how I can help make that happen, but for anybody listed today, for sure you know, give them a call if you're curious about it. I'm assuming you guys will fly out, drive out if you could make it work. Oh, yeah, get in front of them. It's a whole lot better value proposition than trying to get an investor and send a bunch of these units out and chase your tail trying to fix all the problems later.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Absolutely, and we don't even mind if you're not already one of our authorized resellers. If you're interested in the product and you want us to come out and do a presentation and then, after the presentation and the questions, consult among your company and say, okay, this is something we want to pursue or not, then at least you've got the right information to make that decision.
SHED GEEK:yeah, just and I'm assuming you guys would do zoom calls, but they just don't. They don't really do the job that in person does sometimes right.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:It's a whole different world being on zoom versus being in person and having the energy and the interaction and the product.
SHED GEEK:You guys will bring a product out and you'll actually show them hands-on. You can, you know, kind of understand this thing a little bit better so that you can explain, because the salesman's question might be like oh no, do I have to become a professional in the solar world to be able to sell this?
CHRIS BOSTION:right, and that's not the case. We've we've taken all that work out. So it's really just you have four different models that you can sell from. It's more about figuring out what their needs are and trying to put them in the right unit. You know, if somebody's going to buy a car and they need a truck, you know you don't want to sell them a.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:VW bug, you know they need a truck.
CHRIS BOSTION:They need a work truck. So if somebody has a workshop, you might want to look at the higher end units that we offer, like the SunSaver Ultra. If you just need some standby power to charge your drill batteries and maybe run lights in a fan, then, like the base unit we have behind us, that would be perfect for that and that's really all that needs to be figured out on the sales side is that? And do we have a sunny, south-facing spot and having, you know, a Google Earth image that goes along with their sales? That's really important, because then the customer can pick out the spot it can be signed off on and now that can be conveyed to the hauler and the hauler is just going to put it wherever the customer wants it. And if they already have that information ahead of time, they don't even need the customer to necessarily be there to deliver in some cases. I mean, it's just they can drop it off because they can put it exactly where it needs to go.
SHED GEEK:What would a customer I'm trying to ask more like layman questions like just these, very like uh. I'm I'm trying to tap into my inner shed dealer here Um, if the hauler dropped this off, uh, what responsibility then would the customer have in terms of hooking this up? Would the would the customer be able to call you guys. How does that process play out?
CHRIS BOSTION:We do offer that service. If the customer needs installation services and you're roughly in our region, yeah, we can offer installation services. If we're selling it to manufacturers across the country, they would be looked at to install it before it even goes out. But we've made the whole system so easy to install that, I mean, anyone can do it. All you really need is a drill, and I don't think you need any other tools. Maybe one other person, because the box is about 60 pounds, but it can be hung by one person too.
SHED GEEK:So if it's already on the unit, the hauler shows up. He pretty much just drops it off. There's no responsibility after that.
CHRIS BOSTION:And we get the question a lot like are the panels going to fly off, going down the road? And you know that's a common question that we just kind of we overlook because they've never experienced it, so they they don't really know. But the RV industry, you know we work heavily with the RV industry and we've been doing this with RVs for years and years and years. Manufacturers have been installing them on RVs for 15 or 20 years and we don't have problems with them flying off, going down the road. The same installation practices that we use on RVs are what we do for the shed industry as well. So these things can withstand these hurricane force winds. Essentially, as it's going down the road, that's no problem because we use the right brackets, the right sealants and screws and things like that. So we don't really have problems with that. But that's a common question that we do get so.
SHED GEEK:So I'll put my manufacturing hat on for just a minute and say if you're a manufacturer that produces 100 buildings a year, 500 buildings a year, you know, 5 000 buildings a year what does this process look like for the small mom and pop? Or or the corporate mindset, uh, where they push a lot out? How's scalability? Look for you guys. Who do you more commonly work with? Does that area of 100 to 500 sheds kind of fit really?
CHRIS BOSTION:easily. We would like to do that, but again it comes back to those problems when you're dealing with things at scale. Everything has to be in place, because now there's a lot more money on the table. Everything has to be right. We, none of us can afford mistakes, whether it's on our part, their part, whoever. So the scalability of the product is no problem. These products and similar products in other industries and things like that are, you know, thousands and thousands daily going out, and that's where this product is also getting easier to sell every day that goes by, because the average consumer is getting more and more familiar with this stuff.
CHRIS BOSTION:And there's a lot of people out there that have a little solar generator. They have, you know, something they picked up on Amazon for a couple of hundred bucks that you know might charge their phone or give them an outlet to run a little fan or something like that, and they have different units that can be scaled up to run, you know, your whole home and things like that. So every day people are getting more and more in tune with this, and the batteries were the key. This whole thing with off-grid solar. While it was possible in the past, now it's possible and it's reasonably priced for everyone because lithium batteries were the key to this, unlocking everything. So now you know and that's what our unit we offer lithium batteries in it and they're lithium iron phosphate, which is a safer chemistry than like the lithium cobalt that's in evs and that's just allowed the whole industry to be possible.
CHRIS BOSTION:Now, where it really wasn't possible before, with lead acid batteries, you had to really work on your batteries pretty constantly. They have to. They take water for golf cart batteries and things like that. You have to water the batteries once a month with distilled water and there's a lot to it where now they're maintenance-free and you're getting 10 to 20 times the amount of cycles that you would with lead-acid battery. So now it's really possible. It was hard to do before now. It was hard to do before now and, yeah, lithium is just. In the past four years it's dropped to, I would say, one-fifth of the price than it was before and that's just.
CHRIS BOSTION:it's almost as competitive as grid power now as far as pricing. So we have customers all the time that are really now it's a financial decision to where they can really go off grid and start running things off grid, because everybody hates losing power.
SHED GEEK:And that's what's common where the shed space sort of gets into the tiny home space right, like for those who really want to live off-grid, they want autonomy in the most possible way that they can figure out how to do that. Yeah, trying to think in terms of keeping my manufacturing hat on, I'm trying to ask questions that a manufacturer might would want me to ask.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:What we found that's helpful in the manufacturers we're working with now with the sun saver, is having one person who is passionate about the technology, who is hands-on. And so we've got one really great fellow out in california and he has just taken it upon himself to get his head wrapped around the power, what it it can do, how it should be oriented. He'll call and ask questions and now he's really our point man for that region, for his company, so he then can answer the questions because he's taken it upon himself to ask us the questions and then he just leads the way on that side. So anybody within his company that's installing it or planning it, they have him as a local go-to. If and when he can't answer it, that's when he calls us and then it streamlines it because one we remember that we talked to him before. Because the phone rings all the time and while it's lovely to talk to everybody, sometimes it's hard to keep people straight. So you know, wasting time and repeating things that have already been said, and again time that's a waste of it. So we're trying to cut that back. So it would be nice to have one or two point people for each manufacturing site that has the passion, has the interest to really be our local expert, and if there is that person then they can go forward with their folks.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:And again, if you're interested as a salesperson, great. If you're not, don't even attempt it. It's going to be more headache than it's worth because, again, this is a passion, sort of a passion project, like it's a product of necessity, but for a lot of people, especially in neighborhoods, it's a product of desire because they already have grid power. It's there, it's stable. Again, if you're not putting the shed more than 20 feet from the house, trenching is not going to be terribly expensive. But the key is the distance from the house, the autonomy, not increasing your power bill.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:At this moment it's not a need because our grid is stable. Now, whether that's true in the future of our grid being stable is up in question. And that's where we think our overall business model is going to really shine, because we haven't necessarily put the money into maintaining the infrastructure of our grid system. And so we're seeing rolling brownouts and blackouts out west. We may or may not see them here. You know there are some planned with the grid tie. You know we saw the buyback for the customer drop off to virtually nothing. So the return on investment for customers with grid tie is not as good of a deal as it started out, and we're getting calls for those people as well. So I mean there's a need and an emerging market for this product. So I think we just need to find the people who are passionate, that want to know, and then we can grow from there. But I don't want to push anybody who's not interested and force it onto them, because you're not gonna. It's not gonna flow well, it's you're.
SHED GEEK:You're speaking my language now. Um, I hate to. Uh, you know marketing that's what we've had to do. We spend a lot of time on like it's no secret. We spend a lot of time on the customer acquisition phase because we want to take the time. So we've had customers where you can just tell they're in the middle and you can almost see the brain working and I just go, let me stop you there.
SHED GEEK:I feel like, if I'm being honest, you might not even feel comfortable knowing what question to ask because you're just not sure. It's so far out of your normal and that's okay, because this isn't what you do all the time you don't do solar. All the time you don't do marketing. All the time you don't do whatever the project is. All the time you do what you do well, and if we were comparing what we did to what you do, we would not do well at what you do. So we might not even know what questions to ask you if we started building sheds today Like we don't know where to start and you've got to try to find that.
SHED GEEK:So education becomes the key. So we spend a lot of time on customer acquisition saying ask it in your brokenness, what you are trying to say, right? Uh, I feel like that's the type of customer service that you guys provide whenever people are like what? Explain it to me, I don't understand it. I, I feel like people would buy it, but I don't understand it. And what's my responsibility here? You know, it's always what's my cost? What's my responsibility here? Um, so I, I love that you guys spend a lot of time on the customer acquisition, the customer service side, the educational portion of what you do.
SHED GEEK:It o What are challenges that you have faced so far that you didn't see coming? That you can see maybe has helped people in a way you didn't realize or like? What are just challenges? I would ask you about success stories, but I'm curious really right now about challenges.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Logistics of sending solar panels freight across the country.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Because when you send one or two, the way that they're sent and packaged and the way the handlers sometimes are rough on them or step on them, or because you know if you step on it it might break and then it gets delivered and it can't be used. So that's why we try to have a minimum of five units for shipping, so that we can justify doing a pallet of the panels, because sending one off is a gamble. You know it's 50-50 shot it's going to show up fine or it's going to show up broken.
CHRIS BOSTION:And then they're delayed getting the unit installed because so, and we have local solar panel suppliers all around the country that we can have panels delivered and not risk shipping it from north carolina to, you know, the midwest somewhere, and the ups driver stands on it when he's getting another package out of the back of his truck, you know. So, having those local suppliers in that supply chain around the country is good, but it's not for one-off panels. It's not the best deal, right? Not for us or for the consumer or anything like that.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:And I just want to throw out there. We're not trying to throw any particular shipper or delivery company under the bus.
CHRIS BOSTION:You can beep that out.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:We understand that we are a country that is very want-driven and that has increased the amount of shipping that goes out and just the sheer volume that people have to deal with in that industry. It's not intentional, but it is the nature of the volume that they're having to handle, so I just don't want to throw any bandages you're good.
SHED GEEK:They're like, if we can, we can edit and they're probably only being thrown under the bus, likely because they're probably the most successful at what they do.
CHRIS BOSTION:Uh, already, they're just always the first that comes to mind, right that's the good and the bad of branding well right, you know it's so.
SHED GEEK:No, I'll get there, um, but yeah, I'm, I'm just, uh, I'm thinking of again, I'm going to, just I'm trying to, I'm trying to stay very like. I'm trying to stay very like, just low on the barrier entry on these questions. I really want to be like this. People are curious. They'll call yes. They want to know.
CHRIS BOSTION:Oh yeah.
SHED GEEK:But then they don't there's. There's always. What I have found in, like our closing is there's always. That missing piece of the puzzle Was, is it Chris Vance? I can't remember Chris Voss.
SHED GEEK:Chris Voss, he has a podcast, but he wrote a book called never split the difference. I think I'm saying the author's name, right, uh? But, but he talked. He has a company called the black swan company and the the principle behind the black swan and the idea was that, like what is the the obvious thing? What is the black swan among all the white swans that is causing a disruption in your business, that won't allow it to go to like the next level?
SHED GEEK:Or you know what I'm saying? Like what is the most obvious thing, and I and I find a lot of times it's like people will be so close to wanting to know they, they see that solar's coming, that it's still on the rise, it still hasn't peaked. There's so much talk right now. I feel like in the community of you know, tiny home, to where we're starting to go, even with the podcast. Try to get into that space more. I'm wanting to go to a tiny home festival. They had one in Colorado last year and I'm like I need to go. I need to go because there's just going to be good content there.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Where does that meet the shed guy? So, oddly enough, um, that actually gets into one of the issues that we're running into. So years ago, before we were doing the sun saver and we had our old product line, the biggest seller was the equivalent of the base unit, which is the 1200 kilowatt hours. Basically a single 12 volt a hundred amp hour battery. Lights, fan, radio, small stuff, not not constant, draw a few hours a day, go out piddle. That was our biggest seller. Not many people wanted the equivalent of the SunSaver extra or ultra the larger packages. They were few and far between SunSaver Extra or Ultra the larger packages. They were few and far between.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Now, with the tiny home movement, everybody wants to take their entire traditional home, pack it into a shed and not give up any of their energy appliances. Not change how they use power and that's one of the biggest challenges is when you're truly off grid and you're using solar and or wind but we'll just stick with solar for now. You and you have a set battery bank. You know you have to time your power use differently than we've been growing up to time it because you've got a set battery bank. And washing your laundry washer and dryer Washer's not a big deal. The dryer is a heavy, heavy hitter. It's going to pull a lot of power for a while. I like to do my laundry 8, 9 o'clock at night, watch TV fold. You know, if you're doing that on a battery bank off-grid, you're risking draining your battery bank dramatically and maybe you'll run out of power at midnight or 1 am because you're not getting. The sun's not out, it's not recharging as you're using. So those heavy hitting appliances are really best suited as what we call dump loads. So the things that we tell you don't use on an off-grid system, use it if, and only if, your batteries are full. Your load demand is being met by the incoming solar, which is usually 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock in the afternoon. If and when those two conditions are met, your panels will stop producing because there's nowhere for the power to go In that situation. Wash the clothes, dry the clothes.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:If you've got an electric heater which we don't like, we don't recommend plug that bad boy in, because you've got excess potential that you're not harnessing. Now is the time to run those things that are heavy and then, when the sun sets, tone it back a bit, because then you're conserving. So the timing of our daily activities is much different on off-grid than it is on on-grid, because on-grid is just magic always there until it's not. But unlimited power is what it feels like With off-grid. It's not unlimited. You may have a backup generator diesel, propane, natural gas, gasoline, whatever to top up the batteries as needed instead of a point of use. So run it for an hour, top the batteries up, turn it off, versus running it for eight hours. But you still don't want to run that back up terribly often.
SHED GEEK:So it's a timing issue and that's a retraining of lifestyle I was about to say do you think I love that phrase the retraining of lifestyle.
SHED GEEK:Do you think that's kind of um, supported with the off-grid folks?
SHED GEEK:Anyway, they, they are kind of uh, I don't want to say bigger picture thinkers, they're different picture thinkers because they are trying to start to think about life differently our energy, uh, probably, I'm sure for some of them it's food intake, it's it's a lot of different lifestyle changes to say, you know, minimalistic really, in in many ways because, like I, I've made the connection, I don't know. A couple years ago, um, I watched a documentary over minimalism, uh, and started following like a minimalism Facebook page. Now, just to be clear, I haven't practiced minimalism very well, but I'm attracted to the idea of like, living with less and you kind of hear about that with, like, the Generation Xers and different. The way that people are coming up now because they're starting to feel as though they have to start taking that into consideration, or the education that's happened in my generation about fossil fuels and just different things, has started to open up. Now I'm not out here chanting, I'm not at marches or anything like that, I'm just saying that like, maybe there's a lifestyle change in general.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:I think it's part of the economic squeeze that that generation is feeling, and I guess we all are. You know, inflation is a real thing, it's never gone away and it never reverses. You know a lot of kids my age and younger went to college and the degrees they got aren't necessarily moneymakers, and so there's a lot of debt, either involuntarily or voluntary, and so that creates a squeeze, and I think that's actually helping to drive the minimalist movement. It's not necessarily a want, it's a need, and human nature is more driven by necessity than necessarily want. Because we have a lot of wants we want world peace, we want to end hunger. We could end hunger. Uh, there's a great comedian that that did a bit um about just we've got the the shipping, just ship it yeah but it's not a need right now.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:It's still a want because not everybody's hungry.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:And so innovation, what's the phrase? Necessity is the drive of innovation, the mother of innovation, the mother. Thank you.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, at least that's the way I've heard it. No, I agree, and I've noticed a couple of times I try to pick up on the energy in the room and I'll focus on a couple of things almost maybe to a flaw, but I've even noticed you say a couple of times, the grid power is there until it's not. You know, and I can tell it's become part of your and I and I, you know, and I take that as a very non-aggressive approach. Right, you know what I mean? It sounds very matter of fact. It's like we've become, but but 200 years ago we didn't think like that.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Yeah, we think we think like that now, but we didn't always think that was it, the 20s that people just started getting lights in their homes across the country.
CHRIS BOSTION:It's not that long ago but grid power is where we have a stable grid in this country. In other countries all throughout the world, they're getting less and less stable grids because more people are going onto the grid and they're producing the power that they're producing. They're not making more and more power plants. So the more people you get onto the grid and then you aren't ramping up the production to meet that demand. That's where systems like this are. You know, everywhere else in the world there have load shedding systems, brownouts like this stuff happens, it's real and it's coming here In the next few years, especially with EVs being adopted onto the market.
CHRIS BOSTION:I mean one EV, for example, uses as much power as a whole home in one month to charge an EV one day of usage. So if I drive from here to South Carolina and back, which is about an hour hour, back, 100 miles or so, you know EVs only have a 200-mile range, 200 to 300. To achieve that 200 to 300 miles they need to use 50 to 100 kilowatt hours of power and the average American home uses 10 to 15. So it's a lot of power and it takes a lot to recharge those things and if you're driving daily you know the power's got to come from somewhere. So we're going to start seeing more of that.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:the more adoption of evs, the you're going to more than double the demand on the grid on a daily basis. Yeah, so.
SHED GEEK:So would that be the excuse me. Would that make you guys fans of the EVs in the sense that you could provide power?
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:I like the idea. I don't think the technology and the grid is there yet to support it. I'm a huge fan of hybrids. I like the idea of baby stepping into more sustainable methods.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:So, you know, the hybrid still uses fossil fuels, but it uses it, and Chris will have to elaborate on this. It uses battery for low speeds and then switches over and he'll correct me to gasoline or diesel at high speeds because that's the most efficient use of the power. Because, again, efficiency is the key to all of this. It's not attractive, it's not easy to market. You can't just put a pretty girl in tiny clothes and say be efficient.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:I mean I guess you could, but they don't. But that's the key to our population, to our increased energy demands, is, if we're not going to cut back on what we use, we need to make what we do use more and more efficient, to require less and less power, because everything is finite and there is no free lunch, so yep I'm never bored with the conversations that we have with you guys.
SHED GEEK:I feel like you know there's was, there's another saying that says you know, fill the room with people smarter than you, and uh, try to improve to that level. You guys are so wise and, though, and and you're so passionate, yeah, like in in what you guys do, uh, it just you can't be around you, and it not just the tech.
CHRIS BOSTION:The technology is it's. It's amazing that I think that's what makes it so interesting is just the fact that you can generate and store and use your own power. That's pretty cool and I think that's what drives it is just the fact that it's. It's interesting to us, um, and now it's become cost effective where it never was before in the past, you know, four years or so. It's it's a real thing now and that's where we love being in this space, because every day it gets cheaper to put these products out. Um, the products get better and better and better. The technology gets better.
SHED GEEK:So you know, it's a it's a bright future that we can do this we even kind of had a discussion I know we'll be wrapping up soon, but we even kind of had the discussion of like you know what, if rto companies would, would get behind this or support it as part of the unit, uh, or maybe even considering buying up some of these, these units, as long as there's good communication with the manufacturer and then there's good installation, you, you guys, welcome all of that. We certainly love to use our platform to increase your opportunity.
CHRIS BOSTION:And that's the main thing with us is we stand behind our product. So you know, no matter what, we're always there for our customers, whether it's a large manufacturer or the smallest customer that just wants one in their backyard and they want to call us direct, that's fine too. We just want to be there for for everybody. And you know, use the technology the way it's supposed to be used, and that's that's the coolest part about it is, like I said, just being able to generate the power and store it yourself.
SHED GEEK:That's super cool it's only going to do more. It's only going to do more. It's only going to do better. You guys are only going to continue to grow. It's just love, love watching it, love, love for the shed industry to support it as well too, because it makes sense.
SHED GEEK:It's not just a ask like will you support this? It's a your customers are asking for these things, or they want to know how to do these things, and you can be the perfect liaison between getting to eco ethic and getting to your customer and doing some, some fairly minimalistic things yourself, to play on the word of the day. You could do those those things and increase your likelihood of sales. It's going to, you know, increase your likelihood of sales. It's going to, you know, increase your knowledge for manufacturing. It's going to increase your opportunity with your customer base. They're going to have a good partner to work with on that, who is going to go above and beyond for customer service. So I, I love it. I, I want to see it. Just do more and more and more. Hope you get tons of calls. Anything else you guys want to share? Do you want to share pricing? Did you want to go over anything? You're more than welcome to Well technically.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Pricing is confidential until you become an authorized reseller.
SHED GEEK:There you go.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:The reason being I don't want anyone trying to push the product without having been properly trained.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:So we have an agreement that is non-binding to purchase but it just says you promise to honorably convey the abilities and limitations of solar. You understand, at this level that has face south, no trees, just the basics. But once you're an authorized reseller I have a whole webpage that's hidden that I send the link to. That has sales training videos, sales paperwork, runtime sheet, pricing. There's an installation section with an install video, written instructions, purchase order form, customer handouts, so that every single part of the process is getting their own handout, their own instructions. But again, I know a lot of our customers may not use the internet, may not want to go on there, and that's where I would really really like to schedule those larger venues so that we can go in person and do a mass training, a mass introduction.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:I just need a little lead time to schedule it in because, as we've said before, we're not just in the shed market, we're in the sailboat, yacht, off-grid, rv market and we're anywhere the technology makes sense is where we want to apply it. So stay busy, but there's always ways that I can carve time out for those who want to get on board and then just whoever's passionate. We'll just really work on those folks and hopefully it'll just kind of organically spread and the people who want to learn, learn and go teach and those who don't, that's fine.
SHED GEEK:I know there's people selling cabins today that are going back in the like, very remote wooded areas. You know that have a customer who's going to have to try and go figure this out on their own. You could install this make more money. You could install this make more money, sell it make more money. But, even more importantly, you could be a liaison in fulfilling that customer's need, because they're going to go look for this anyway.
SHED GEEK:I mean, that's why we've had other guys on the show after market products uh, on on the show, because a lot of times these are things that they're going to go look for. They're going to likely go to a big box store, they're going to start with a google search, they're going somewhere to try to figure this thing out and you can increase the value proposition that you bring to your customer when they walk onto your sales lot or consider purchasing your line of buildings. There's an added value there and it's not even an added value of like. Will it take? Do people need it? We all need power, we all use power, they all want it. They just don't maybe understand exactly how to do it, and that's where you guys come in.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Right, and it would be nice if any of the manufacturers that want to start small, you know, talk to your dealers what areas have the hottest demand and ask about solar and then in those specific lots do a test bed, you know, order five units, install them as demos only you know and then see if it works.
CHRIS BOSTION:So you're not putting all in but then you've got the hot markets and see how they do the biggest driver. I mean, this is all about the customer, whether it's the shed sale or whatever we sell or anything, and the customers are driving the industry. So, for solar and off-grid, people want it. I mean, there is, like I said, thousands and thousands of these units sold every single day and people want these types of products. They want to be able to be independent, because power has become something that is not. We used to think of it as a luxury and it's not a luxury anymore. Power is a necessity for life and it's increased, you know, for the human race in general. Just the fact that we can refrigerate food, refrigerate medicines, do these kind of things to help our lives, it's went from being a luxury to being a true necessity for life, and electricity is important now.
SHED GEEK:At IFAB LLC, our passion is welding, fabricating and design. That's why, in 2015, we began to commercially market our product to the shed, portable building and minibarn industry. Our product is primarily used to build trusses. Our truss saw system cuts boards in one motion and our truss press system installs and presses the gusset plates to a finished truss. We custom fabricate jigs that assure perfectly symmetrical truss setup without error. We also have other products designed to help your shed builder increase quality efficiency and save money. Our precision door table will build your custom doors square every time and easily adjust to build any door. For products like these or other custom fabrication services for your barn shop, visit ifabllccom or call 563-422-7496 or simply email us at ifabllc at gmailcom.
SHED GEEK:And you guys are going to just like take off one day. I mean, I just feel like it's just, it seems like it it could have happened already. And and I'm not saying that you're not doing well because you guys are doing amazing I'm saying the sky is the limit. Really, with you guys, you have so much potential and then, like you're likable, you're smart, like you guys are just going to do well, you're going to keep doing better and better. I can't encourage people to like experience that for themselves. Call you, absolutely, go to these. You know you guys will coordinate with them to set up, to go to their events and things like that.
SHED GEEK:I don't have to sell it, you guys will do fine whenever they meet you guys and talk to you and they'll see the the not just the inspiration and the grit behind you guys, um, your work ethic and things like that and your customer service driven focus and education driven focus, focus. But they'll be around you and they'll start. It'll sink in for sure. If they haven't been able to do that, we try to capture that, the essence of that, in the podcast and sometimes that's hard. Sometimes our conversations are better before and after the podcast than they are whenever we finally get a chance to get, but we try to mimic that as best we can. I don't know. I can't say anything more than it's a needed product. It matches our market. You guys are doing it. You're leaders in that space. Yeah, I just feel like people should be calling you guys and knocking down the door to find out more about your product.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Well, if I can, this is something I want to get out to the masses if you're going off grid, shed home whatever, especially sheds.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:If you want to run an air conditioning unit, please look into mini split units. They are highly efficient. You're looking for a high seer rating, that's s e, e-e-e-r, and then you want at least the SunSaver Extra or Ultra. Do not ask for the base or the plus. They will not run cooling For heating.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Do not use electricity. Do natural gas propane wood stove. Get yourself one of those grill tank bottles or the slightly larger ones. Grill tank bottles or the slightly larger ones. Get yourself an indoor rated propane wall unit or floor unit that is rated for indoors. Get a carbon monoxide detector. You have to have one of those when you have it.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Propane is much more efficient for heating than electricity ever will be if you can have a natural gas cook stove versus an electric heating air, water, food propane, natural gas wood stove over electric every time. Otherwise, your battery bank is going to have to be so large that it's going to price you probably out of the unit. Tankless hot water heaters that are propane are wonderful. The on-demand ones, because then you're only using as you need and it's very good for on-demand. Face your unit south, capture the sun If you're not using an appliance or you leave the shed, turn your appliances off, close the door, close the window, just like your parents said growing up, use LED lighting. You know, close the door, close the window, just like your parents said growing up. Yeah, um, use led lighting. What else would you say that are important appliances? I think you covered all of them this is this is critical.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:This is the biggest question that we get is can I run this, can I run that? Well, I really I've already bought my electric stove. I've already. I want my plug-in you know, electric heater. No, get rid of those yeah um, just for again, efficiency. I was about to say that's it.
SHED GEEK:You just really what you just it was. That was sort of an efficiency tirade there. If you will, you know what I mean. Like if, because thinking about that, you're not you, you would think that people would say, oh, you have an ulterior motive, you're trying to sell more energy, so, like you guys, I mean more, more electric. Yeah, because you guys are, you know what I mean going to be converting that power. It's like no, no, no, that's not what we're saying.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:We're saying use the efficiencies where they make the most sense, because that will actually complement our product yes, I think is what you're, and saving money on the size that you have to rely on, yeah, that you have to purchase like we can make the system run anything.
SHED GEEK:Right, but that's not efficient. Right, it's not efficient and it's not cost effective.
CHRIS BOSTION:So that's just why we want the customer to get the most bang for their buck. We all want that. Nobody wants to waste money.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:And it's not about being 100% electric or 100% anything. It's using the fuel or power source to its best application and that's why we're never going to tell somebody to get rid of your generator. No, keep your generator Right now. Outside it looks like 530 in the afternoon because it's cloudy, it's rainy.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Your solar panels are still going to produce, but they're not going to produce anywhere near their maximum. Are still going to produce, but they're not going to produce anywhere near their maximum. So if we had a week of this kind of weather, then you would want to turn on your generator, be it diesel, gas, propane, to top up the battery. So again, you're looking at maybe an hour or two of running the generator to boost the battery back up, turn it back off, whereas historically, if you're off grid, like a lot of our customers are, until we meet them and work with them, they run their entire house off a generator for point of use, meaning the generator has to be running and cranked up high. As long as you have even a single appliance that you want to have on Now, that's not efficient. But if you can top up your battery bank and then turn the generator off, less fuel, less cost of refilling the fuel, more efficiency.
SHED GEEK:I'm far from I guess you'd say an organized prepper, but I mean, the truth is, what you're doing is going to be on the right side of history as time continues.
CHRIS BOSTION:I think It'll help the whole world. The more efficient any of us are, the better off we're all going to be.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:The funny thing I learned about preppers is that either they're right and they're ready, or they're wrong and they're just great stewards of the land, because the ones that we've met they're looking at how to naturally filter water, how to create ponds that are ecologically sound and sustainable, how to grow plants that are flowers, fruits, nuts, berries that will return every year once properly established. So low maintenance, and that's what we need. Like from a religious side, you know, we are the keepers of the earth.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:We are the stewards and that's something you know. I wish was a little more prominent, um and discussed more, because you take care of others and you take care of the land, because you know this land is sacred. Yeah I don't this make it controversial. I don't think it was unlimited to one place. I think it meant land. Yeah, this earth, yeah, absolutely this beautiful blue marble that we've been given that sustains life.
SHED GEEK:That's right. I love it. You guys' passion for it speaks for itself. I just I don't know. I'm blown away every time I come down there and talk to you guys. We've got to keep doing this. Yeah, I do this, I don't know once a year or something, I think that's uh, where maybe we're on track for once a year it seems like it was about a year ago. I don't know, uh, but love what you do. If people want to get a hold of you, well, I want to make sure to get that on there. If they do want to reach out to you, how do they get in touch with you?
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:uh, so you can go to our website, which is E-C-O-Ethic E-T-H-I-C solarcom. You can also call the office. My business mobile is 336-250-1284. Our landline at the office is 336-843-2004. Typically you'll get myself or my assistant, monica, and we're happy to get information. We do have a client sheet, so we're going to go through a sheet and get as much information as we can first. So try not to jump the gun, because you can give us too little information but you cannot give us too much. We just want to structure it so that we have all the pieces of the puzzle to get the right placement and the right package and the right system for you.
SHED GEEK:Those questions you asked now is another act of efficiency. I know exactly what you're talking about. We try to do the same thing and we're like you're probably going to have a lot of questions, but if you answer a lot of these early on, it'll actually help me even go down the spiel of like which direction is best to point you in, because you may be in a totally different category over here, and we got to work through all this and and and. It's like, oh, we should have started there and then I could have been more efficient with your time and mine yeah, people just get excited.
SHED GEEK:That's it yeah well, you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, so you just, you know you start asking questions, but I love what you guys do also. Uh, be sure to. If you guys don't subscribe to the newsletter, let me know, send me an email. Uh, we'd love to get you on there. We put out a newsletter every time a new episode drops, which is every Wednesday and Thursday. Uh, you'll actually see a link to EcoEthics Solar on there. Um and uh, we're going to put one on there regularly. We were putting it on there when the ads run, but we'll just create like a little digital print ad and put it on there, because you guys have been faithful advertisers for us and we want to do that For the rest of you guys. We'll sell it to you, but feel free to reach out, but if they, if they do want to find out, they can go to the newsletter as well too, and that'll go to your um, your website, I'm assuming, your website. Then we'll have either contact information or a lead form or something like that.
CYNTHIA KAMINSKI:Yeah, absolutely and if they want to see our work, we're on youtube, instagram, facebook. I think that's it perfect.
SHED GEEK:Yeah, well, I love it. I love what you guys do. I'm gonna get out of here. I'm gonna go over to the shed hauler bash. Oh, so we're gonna go have some fun with some some shed haulers while we're out here. But thank you guys so much, just as a pleasure. I'm glad we got to do round two. I'm looking forward to round three already it's always lovely having you here thank you guys so much.
SHED GEEK:Hey, this is mo lunsford in sunny union grove, north carolina, and we want to say thank you to all the guests and listeners.