Shed Geek Podcast

Metal Meets Marketing Part 2

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 48

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The building industry's best-kept secret isn't about materials or designs—it's about the relationship between manufacturers and dealers. In this revealing conversation, Jared Ledford welcomes Shannon "The Shed Geek" to dive deep into what truly makes a successful dealer network tick.

What happens when 10% of dealers sell 90% of the product while the other 90% struggle to make an impact? This fascinating imbalance creates ripple effects throughout the industry, affecting everything from customer service to pricing strategy. Shannon and Jared don't just identify the problem—they explore how professionals can elevate standards across the board.

The discussion pulls back the curtain on controversial practices like rock-bottom down payments that create a "race to the bottom," devaluing products industry-wide. You'll hear candid insights about the challenges of building loyal teams, whether W2 employees offer advantages over 1099 contractors, and how to prevent training your future competition.

Most compelling is their call for a mindset shift from pure competition to strategic collaboration. By working together rather than against each other, dealers can create more value for customers and potentially even approach manufacturers with greater collective influence. Their philosophy—"No one hates it when you help them"—serves as a guidepost for building stronger industry relationships.

Whether you're a building professional looking to improve your business model or simply curious about the inner workings of the metal building industry, this conversation offers rare insights from two veterans willing to share their hard-earned wisdom.

Ready to transform your approach to building sales? Connect with J Money LLC for financing solutions that support your business growth at jmoneyllc.com.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.

To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.

To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.

This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: J Money LLC

Realwork Labs
Shed Geek Marketing

Introduction:

Hey, this is Joel Oney at the J Money Studio in the heart of the Buckeye State, and I want to personally welcome you to today's episode of the Steel Kings Podcast with my good friends Jared Ledford and Eric Olson, better known to you as the Steel Kings. Be sure to check out jmoneyllc. com for financing solutions for your buildings. And now let's get back to the Steel Kings podcast.

Jared Ledford:

Hey guys, this is Jared with the Steel Kings podcast. Wanted to let you know that today's episode is part two of a two-part episode. Go back to last week for part one. We hope you enjoy part two.

Jared Ledford:

So at the end of the day it really comes down to for my guys where the building's coming and where it's going, and we just try to stick with that as our rule of thumb, because if there is a problem which more often than not there's not I mean, we sell a lot of buildings here we do not run into a lot of issues anymore, but when we do, it is so much easier to have that customer get service from a manufacturer that's in their backyard. If we know that that customer is going to get a return trip within three hours or less, we're that much more confident that that return trip will happen in a really speedy process. And really that's all you can ask for. People are understanding. If you don't over promise and under deliver, if you're sitting there and you're selling metal buildings, chances are I don't care what a manufacturer says, they're not going to have your building done in two weeks. I just don't. I don't buy that. I don't believe it for a second. I always tell my customers it's going to be six weeks or less once I get a site picture. And I don't care if they're telling me four weeks, three weeks, two weeks, it's six weeks or less once I get a site picture and I don't start that timer until you get me that site picture. And again, not all the manufacturers require site pictures, but I can tell you the second you sell a building, and they go out to install it and they can't because there's something going on. Is the first time. You'll remember what I said six weeks or less. Once I get a site picture, I help the customer set that up, I send the site picture over to the manufacturer and we work together to get it on the schedule. And I think a lot of what you get on the steel side is you get what you get, and you give what you give. And when you're talking to a manufacturer, if you're giving them hey, I've got your order form filled out for February. I've got your order form filled out for February. I've double checked the price, I've made sure that everything is up to your exact expectations and, by the way, I'm going to keep in contact with my customer. Make sure the process is smooth, please let me know if something changes on your end, if there's something with their drawings, if there's something with the process, please let me know so I can step in and kind of keep that going.

Jared Ledford:

A lot of guys these days, Shannon, will advertise a building online. Let's say the building's 20,000 bucks, let's say the average down payment at 20% is gonna be about 4K. And they'll say, hey, today I'll take $1,000 and I'll sell the building. And I can tell you that kills everybody. That kills everybody. It and I can tell you that kills everybody. That kills everybody. It's the race to the bottom. It devalues the product, it makes everything worth less than it actually is. And at the end of the day now you're going to be the guy that's giving out $1,000 down payments and not that. That's not great.

Jared Ledford:

If you're a single man sitting in your basement or sitting in your house and you're selling metal buildings, again more power to you. But think about what money you lose on the next deal. Not everybody needs a thousand dollar down payment. That's a promise. Now there are people out there who will absolutely fight tooth and nail to get the cheapest price and you're not going to overcome those guys. You're either going to sell them at a discount or you're going to let them walk, but at the end of the day, we all have to work together to bring the standard level up a little bit. And I think that jumps back to what you said, Shannon. I mean, I think that you have so many dealers out there. If manufacturers are truly dealing with a 10% 90% split, the 10% the most talented sell 90% of the product. What about the 90% who sell 10%? What about the bottleneck that that causes? What about the customer service issues it causes? Think about that. What's your thoughts on that one?

Shannon Latham:

Yeah, man, I see that happen, especially in. I like to joke around all the time about sheds with shed guys and say, let me guess what's your dealer network? Look like you got 50. So probably your number one and your number two guy are always competing, or gal, you know, are always competing for number one. Uh, and then you probably got like players, three, two, three through ten that could be maybe somewhat movable. You know they're kind of like. You know three could move down to six and six up to three and 10 might move to six or vice versa. Whatever you know, you typically see that. But then you've got like 40 that you wouldn't know the difference from one to the other and probably two or three of them that you should have let go of. That you've just been struggling to let go of as a dealer for six months because you're such a good person and you know. So, like, and everyone laughs, and they say, wow, you nailed it. And I'm like, yeah, you take that formula times 300 lots, 900 lots, three lots, whatever it is like, and it kind of holds true, you know, and maybe that's because there's not effective training, maybe that's because there's not effective training, maybe that's because there's not good expectations. Maybe that's because people don't see the buy in whenever they get these things for free, you know. Maybe there's just not an excitement around it. Where's the cream rising to the top, like who are the ones who are losing a sale? To one of those occasional guys who say I just want to sell a building a month and I'm good, and they get in there and they sell it and they give away whatever they got to give away to get it sold because they're happy with that. They made their extra thousand bucks, you know, and they're good right Versus a professional. That's why we started, you know, the steel sales professional page. Now the whole idea is to be professional, you know, and sales is a professional career nowadays.

Shannon Latham:

You know, there was a time where you got into marketing and then all of a sudden you would. You would fall into sales, you know, but you didn't go to school for sales. Fall into sales, you know, but you didn't go to school for sales. No one typically wakes up and says you know, I want to be a salesperson today or talks to their guidance counselor about I want to sell things, I want to sell ideas, service, products, whatever it is. It's kind of something you fall into in most situations, and that's definitely the case with steel sales.

Shannon Latham:

You know, usually got a rep that comes around and they find a nice half acre lot high traffic count.

Shannon Latham:

They're like, you know, let me check these guys out. Oh, these they seem like decent guys. Let's say, we'll give you three or four displays, you know, free, no cost, and all you got to do is do this and you get to make this much money 10, 15 percent, whatever it is money, 10, 15%, whatever it is and there's either marginal excitement and it never really takes root, or there's massive excitement and they become those number one dealers and they're gambling. They're gambling on. You never know what you're going to get, but it doesn't hurt to have this out there because it's exposure. Either way. It's a bill though, though. Uh, some structures out there throw a sign out there and it's good advertising nonetheless, even if the dealer doesn't take care of them and there's a number on there, you know they call corporate office and corporate gets them sold on something you know, but for the professionals out there who are saying this is my livelihood, this is my living, this is what I do, yeah, it burns to see the industry.

Shannon Latham:

You know you're as strong as your weakest link, so it burns to see the industry take a hit, you know, and that's why, like, why do you do these podcasts? Why do you do these? This is free. You know this is free. Like our time is valuable, like everyone else's. We believe in getting on here to talk about these things and create content, create conversation, to create thought, to challenge thought to you know all of these different things so that it keeps the conversation going and ultimately it betters an industry, because there's more cohesion whenever people are talking.

Shannon Latham:

So, it's not like just sit back and maintain my competitive advantage and take the things I know. I think there's a true intent here to want to see the industry improved through competition conversations with competition. I always say everyone I compete with in this. If there's a company I compete with in this industry, they always have an open invite on the podcast. You know why? Because I'll never be in a position to say I've told them they can't come on or they can't advertise. You know what I mean. Like I invite the difficult conversations as long as they stay constructive. You know my mom used to tell me quit raising your voice and raise your argument right, you know. Like you know, have a better conversation. We don't have to just get loud and mean we're selling sheds and steel buildings.

Shannon Latham:

We're not in gangs.

Shannon Latham:

You know what I mean Like we can have good, hard, productive conversations. That ultimately for a better industry and a better experience for your dealers and a better experience for your customers when we come together for conversation. So, you know, my, my thought is like when, when and who do we talk to about those things? Hey, when do we stop just throwing some steel buildings on a random lot and hope that the guy's a winner? You know what, what if we invest in those 10% selling 90% instead of the 90% selling 10? I don't know. Just a thought. But yeah,

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Shannon Latham:

For me, I don't know a hard answer, Jared. A lot of times I'll leave it.

Jared Ledford:

I think conversation, conversation and, you know, constructive feedback leads to collaboration. Right, you know, down the road there might be two or three bigger dealers that might want to talk to Dayton Barns about doing something on a real national level. You know, I think that that's, you know, I think that that's a collaboration that could happen, because what we have right now is we have these quasi big dealers right, you know, Dayton Barns is probably in you know a very high percentage of them. But when you really look at the gross sales and you look at how much we move the needle, we're not any much bigger than you know. Probably another dozen or two dozen. You know dealers across the United States. We just advertise. Well, we're professional and we're good at what we do.

Jared Ledford:

But I think for me, you know, for the dealers to really start to have some power here, they either have to get together and collaborate on how they're going to better their own situations. You know unions come to mind and all that kind of stuff. We're a bunch of independent contractors, we're a bunch of just, you know, hard-nosed building slingers and shed slingers. We're not going to be able to get much done that way, but if we got together and collaborated, we might be able to be a dealer network that then would have more power to go to our manufacturer and say, look, we're going to, we're going to work together, we're going to. You know, we're going to lock arms and we're going to work together. And you know what I'm going to cover over here. They're going to cover over there and they're going to cover these parts, the problem that we've had, you know, w2 to 1099 and 1099 to W2, back and forth.

Jared Ledford:

And if you're sitting out there and you're working with independent contractors on a dealer lot, what you're going to find and if you haven't already seen it, you will they'll leave and they'll go do their own thing and they'll be selling for $1,000 down payments. Don't you worry, you will breed, you will absolutely create your own demise and we've seen it. I mean, I can tell you right now. We've experienced it here firsthand. We've had 1099s leave over the years and they go, start their own metal building business and we wish them well. You know, we've never once even though we probably could have, for using imagery and using our likeness and using exactly what we use, we have never, ever gone after an independent contractor for trying to do their own thing.

Jared Ledford:

Now what we found more often than not is it is a canned less than version of Dayton Barnes. You know they try to take one or two things they like about it and then make it their own, and what we end up finding out is customers end up coming back to Dayton Barnes. That's what we find is because you know, if you've worked with Dayton Barns for a year let's just say anybody you've worked with a dealer for a year your likeness, your branding, your Facebook, your marketing something out there says you were with Dayton Barnes or with a different dealer, and no matter how hard you work to expel that, the bigger dealers tend to always win out on that. But they will come after you, your own people that you trained and taught how to do it and it happens not just in steel buildings but in shed sales too to do it and it happens not just in steel buildings but in shed sales too.

Shannon Latham:

Yeah, you're kind of hitting on something that is a very near and dear to my heart kind of experience that I've had in the industry my buddy Dylan, massive talent, massive talent, very successful inside of you know marketing, even before we got specific to the shed industry and I'll let the cat out of the bag here, I'm sure some of my shed listeners listen to on Wednesdays, listen to this episode or these episodes too, on Monday. But you know, I mean like it was real simple. I mean, and we're working together and you together, I lost a different partner that I had. That stinks. I hate the way that it happened. It just is what it is. People make choices. You learn to adjust and deal with those. It's so interesting.

Shannon Latham:

I remember Dylan saying man, I can't get anywhere with these guys. Like you know, I don't know what it is. Come on the podcast. I've had other advertisers, come on, I. Come on people. You know I've had some tell me man, you make up half of my sales and advertising. I have others say man, I didn't get a lick from you. Nobody, nobody's coming to the table and it's like you know.

Shannon Latham:

Well, you got to start measuring. You know, thinking about measuring those ROIs, you know I got to. I'm getting into weeds here, but you know I got to. I got a clickable link. You know that clickable link has so many clicks on it. Yeah, I can see those links. But then I go to your website and see you got no GA4 tag, no GTM. You got nothing set up to be able to track not only what I'm bringing you in terms of, you know, like leads, but you don't even know who's coming to your website in general.

Shannon Latham:

Anyway, you know. So I, you know I'm reaching the same people. We're encouraging the same people to always buy from our advertisers at what lets us put up free advertising out there. So, whether it's services or products, of course we're trying to sell something. We're going to try to sell something because those people pay to get in front of the audience, you know, and being able to maintain that audience. You've got to respect that. So, like you know, I'm in year five now and year one. You know your comment earlier about, you know, unions. You know I've had people tell me before oh, this guy's trying to unionize this guy. I would delete those and edit those out of the episodes altogether because I was like I didn't want the smoke from it.

Shannon Latham:

You know what I mean.

Shannon Latham:

Like I didn't want the smoke of somebody being like he's trying to do this. He's trying, trust me. I've been accused of trying to do a lot of things that I'm not capable of doing, you know, and it's one of those things where I'm like, well, I don't know, it's the FOMO, it's the paranoia, it's the protection mindset, mindset. You know, I started this rant with talking about Dylan. You know, dude's so talented he started getting job offers right off the bat. I had one guy tell me you know, just tell me what you pay him. I'll pay him 10 grand more, you know. And it's, it's wild for me to think, but that's kind of sometimes the mentality of the shed, and still space is like you got something, I want it, and if I got more money I'm going to get my way Right. So, I've seen those situations happen. Don't get me wrong. But you know there's a, there's just a place for conversation of loyalty, like I remember training a guy who's a good friend of mine on how to sell buildings, and you see these conversations all the time, Jared, you know what was the conversation like? What's what should I pay people who sell for me? And it's like, oh, you should pay them. A mix of you know this fits in perfectly to the W2 1099 conversation.

Shannon Latham:

Like, we gave the guy 1099. He was there for three weeks. He didn't sell a building. He's like I can't keep doing this. I got a family, I got a feed. You know, okay, I'm going to start paying you a certain amount of money and a certain, so I'm going to do a split. You get a certain guarantee, but enough to only keep you hungry to sell. You know I can't pay you as much in commission now because I'm giving you this guarantee. Work, perfect, you learn how to sell. He sold for a year. Somebody come along and said, hey, I'll pay you X amount of dollars per year. Boom gone. You know I'm upset, but I'm not upset because I'm happy for my friend.

Shannon Latham:

He got a good offer. But that's typically just the way a lot of business works. But in terms of like, loyalty, it's like oh man, you just got to kind of deal with it, you, just you, you do deal with it, you know. And like you've got to offer enough value that like we couldn't afford to pay him to keep him. Yeah, you know, we, we, we did all this. You know, we taught him all of this, we.

Shannon Latham:

He was ready to quit and he was like this industry stinks. I don't even want to be in it. I can't sell anything. Ain't sold nothing for three weeks, became one of the best sales people I saw. You know, it's just a matter of like, um, you know, I don't know.

Shannon Latham:

On that on, on that whole loyalty thing and on the whole people working with people thing, like I always want to see people do better. I never want to hold anybody back for anything but, but I think it's just, you know, people are just trying to protect their investment. I think that's all it really boils down to that. You know, people, I heard a quote one time that said people don't do things to you, they do things for themselves and whenever you like, acknowledge that. You know it takes a lot of pressure off of you to realize they're not doing anything to you. Being offended is always a choice, so they're doing things for themselves. You know, and, and, and I think I just rest with that, you know, at the end of the day. So, I'm not sure if that lesson in psychology made it across, but that that is a that is a real conversation to even have on 10, 99 and W2.

Shannon Latham:

What do I pay it An employee whenever they come on? Am I paying workman's comp? Are they actually, you know, w2,? Are they under my umbrella? You know, am I giving them enough to be hungry? Are they satisfied just coming in every day and punching the clock, doing the job, getting out of here and going to the ballgame? You know I lost that luxury whenever I jumped into this thing full time, both feet first. You know like I'm on the phone eight hours a day. You know I don't do any of the working.

Shannon Latham:

When people say you're doing so many things nowadays, you just need to focus on one thing and I'm like, without sounding arrogant. First of all, all of these are successful. Our rent owns up 207%. Our marketing's up 187%. The relationship with J Money has been excellent. What they're seeing in finance and doing. Love those guys. You know e-commerce with Shed Hub. Now, the podcast on Mondays and Fridays. I mean, like you also got to remember, it's not me, there's a team of you know 60 people that I work with. You know not 60 people that work for me directly, where I just go and point fingers and say, get to work, but 60 people who are collaborators, who know what to do and are willing to work together and rise above the fray to say let's create a more conducive environment together and a better experience for our users. Yeah, yeah, it's like revolutionary, jerry. Revolutionary. It's just a matter of getting out of your own way and being willing to work with people to say let's go seek the best possible solution for all of us instead of for one of us.

Jared Ledford:

Yeah, for all of us. I'm a testament of your ability to basically just engulf somebody with your spirit, engulf somebody with your motivation. You know you didn't have to reach out to me. We met in passing. It could have been a passing meeting moment and then we could have never talked again. And I think what I liked about you is what you liked about me is I didn't immediately ask you for anything and I, you know you didn't ask me for anything either. We just made that interaction. We had a really good, deep, heartfelt talk and just from there it's butted into this friendship.

Jared Ledford:

It's now, you know, we're working on owning a business together. We're working on doing all these things together. We're on a podcast now, you know, and we're extending out through our nucleus, through our network, and now our nucleus is becoming attached to other moving parts, and that you know, I get asked the same question all the time Well, don't you sell metal buildings? Well, yeah, I sell metal buildings, I sell sheds, I'm getting into pole barns, I do a podcast. You know, am I crazy? Probably I don't sleep a lot. You know, I'll be honest with you. You know I don't take any time off, you know.

Jared Ledford:

I let I let the traveling, I let Eric do the traveling for us and I'm here pretty much every day grinding it out with the team. I jump in. I sell. I jump out, I lead gen. I jump back in. I'm working on the shed lot. I jumped back out. I'm on a podcast with Shannon. I mean this morning I was stapling sales sheets to the sheds a mile up the street from our sales office. I mean, I was out there pouring sweat. Matter of fact, here's my t-shirt as proof.

Jared Ledford:

I sweated through that thing.

Jared Ledford:

It's a hot day, brother. It's a humid hot day.

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Jared Ledford:

But I can tell you I do a little bit of everything Shannon does too, but it's the ability to again have a conversation with somebody and take it somewhere to do amazing things. Um, I think we've got a really good point of view today. Shannon brother, I want to finish up with you. I want to we're going to pencil these in, probably once a month, me and me and the shed geek. Um, we'll probably jump over to Shannon's podcast every once in a while, but you know, on the still Kings podcast, I think Shannon brings a unique flavor to our team. Um, we want to get you in here with Eric. Um, Eric is in, just so you guys know Eric's traveling in Washington. Um, he is out just moving and shaking. He sold a couple of buildings on his trip, got a couple of buildings on his trip, got a couple of pictures for us of buildings that we've sold out West and, uh, was doing some really good work for me.

Shannon Latham:

I'm telling you, you guys are two of the best that I've seen. Do it and it's, it's all the accolades that you say, they don't go unnoticed. But I'll tell you, man, my, my favorite thing is celebrating the wins of other people, you know. So, I love to see you guys winning, I love to see other people winning, zig Ziglar. You know that mentality help others get what they want, so you can get what you want. You know, we're not seeking riches, man, like we're seeking fulfillment and contentment. You know, like that's my mindset is to always be seeking, you know, to fill my purpose, to fill my passions, to not get so content that you, you aren't hungry, but to not get so hungry that you lose who you are with others, to gain what it is you feel like you want to achieve, like you want to achieve, so, like it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a balancing act, you know, and sometimes you get it wrong and I'll be the first to tell you I'll go apologize to someone If I, if I agree that I got it wrong, I'll go, I'll, I'll, I'll eat my hat, you know, and I'll just tell people. You know, I'm sorry I messed that one up.

Shannon Latham:

But, man, it's hard to do anything, Jared. It's hard to commit to any level of anything. Getting it, doing a podcast, starting a blog, you know. Writing an article, uh, becoming a salesperson owning a lot, you know. Becoming that manager, you know, taking that VP job, whatever it is that you're doing, you can't do anything without resistance and, honestly, man, like you're just going to get the haters that come along with it and everything else. You know what I have found? No one hates. No one hates it when you help them. Yeah, just keep that. No one hates it when you help them. So, give them the data, give them the proof, show them that you can make a difference and people can start to warm up to even the personalities that they're not necessarily in love with. You know, show people value. Show people value and show them that you're willing to give them value first and collect on that value later, and that, right there, opens up the door to a lot of possibilities.

Jared Ledford:

Yeah, brother, I I'm going to end it there. I think you couldn't have said it better. I'm going to give you guys the motivator for the week. I say this a lot Get out in your community, be a good friend to somebody, do something for somebody else. Like Shannon said, I really want to live by that creed in my own life. I love to help out in my community. I'm involved in my local municipalities park board. I might even run for city council. Who knows if you're really sitting back and thinking, man, you know what I want to do something. Get out there and do it. Stop thinking about it. You know Shannon wanted to start a podcast. He started a podcast. Now he's on one with me. You know here we are. He just wanted to do it, so he did it.

Jared Ledford:

You know if you're sitting back, if you're sitting back.

Jared Ledford:

Man, you can change the world for somebody tomorrow. You can change somebody's life.

Shannon Latham:

Changed, my family's direction Changed. You know, my son works with me now, my wife works with me, my daughter works with me. Like, who thought? Who would have thought an idea would turn into something? You know, just by being vulnerable enough to go out there and say you know, dude, I don't really know at all. I want to interview the people who do like. The podcast is the perfect example of the quote you saw where it says if you're the janitor, don't insult the CEO. Take the CEO to lunch and find out what they know. Because that's what I did was I took all the CEOs to lunch by going out and interviewing them and, dude, it opened up such a world of opportunity for me that I don't even know how to pay it back. I don't know who to thank, God, of course, but I'm just saying, you know, I don't, I don't, I can't say thank you enough because it's just opened up so much for me and my family. Yeah, I have to be thankful.

Jared Ledford:

So, like, yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut your motivation, no, no, I think you know we can talk for hours and we will talk for hours on this podcast. We will absolutely be back with more useful content. I want to give a quick shout out at the end, like I always do, to the team over at J Money. They are our title sponsor for the Steel Kings podcast. They are going to help you out with your financing needs. If you're an independent contractor working on home improvement projects, dealers, manufacturers of steel and shed options, pole barns, you name it, they'll help you out. The team over at J Money contact Joel or Katie. They'll help you out with what you need.

Jared Ledford:

Shannon brother, we are going to wrap it up for today on the Steel Kings podcast. Check out Shannon's show every Monday on your preferred podcasting listening device or YouTube and hit us up if you need us. I'm Jared. That's Shannon. I am part of the Steel Kings podcast. He is the shed geek and the podfather of our network. We appreciate you, guys, and we will talk to you all soon. Have a blessed day, guys.

Closing:

Before you go, the J Money team wants to thank you for listening to today's Steel Kings podcast. Remember, money is king. If you need a financing option on your portable wood sheds or steel buildings, we are here to help. Just check out jmoneyllccom for more information. Don't forget to catch the next episode. We'll still be here.