Shed Geek Podcast

Behind the Scenes at Shed Geek: Where Marketing and Faith Intersect - Part 2

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 59

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The digital landscape is transforming the shed industry, separating businesses that thrive from those that merely survive. This revealing conversation dives into the conservative nature of the shed business and how resistance to technological change is causing some companies to miss opportunities they never even know existed.

When a shed business lacks proper digital infrastructure, it's like "building a beautiful lot with 140 pristine buildings sitting in a cornfield where no one can see it for 100 miles." The podcast team breaks down this powerful analogy, explaining how even multi-million dollar companies operating without proper digital tracking are flying blind when it comes to understanding their true marketing ROI.

The discussion moves beyond theory into practical applications, comparing digital marketing tools to the physical equipment needed to run a shed business. Just as you wouldn't try to haul multiple sheds with an underpowered truck, you shouldn't expect maximum results without the proper digital framework. The hosts share real examples of clients who initially resisted implementing websites, CRM systems, and lead tracking tools, only to eventually embrace these technologies once they understood their value.

Particularly fascinating is the exploration of how businesses can develop graduated marketing strategies that solve specific problems rather than taking a "kitchen sink" approach. Through consultative conversations, shed companies can identify their unique challenges – whether it's lead generation, customer relationship management, post-sale follow-up, or strategic growth planning – and implement targeted solutions that deliver measurable returns.

Ready to stop losing customers to competitors with stronger digital presences? Visit ShedGeek.com to discover how the right digital strategy can help your shed business capture opportunities you're currently missing.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or YouTube at the handle @shedgeekpodcast.

To be a guest on the Shed Geek Podcast visit our website and fill out the "Contact Us" form.

To suggest show topics or ask questions you want answered email us at info@shedgeek.com.

This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

NewFound Solutions
Solar Blaster Fans
Shed Hub
Shed Suite
IdentiGrow

Intro:

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our 2025 studio sponsor. Let's be real Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers while expectations keep climbing. And yet I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out.

Intro:

ShedPro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions, From website lead to final delivery. You can quote, contract, collect payment and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. Contract collect, payment and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner and, instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention Shed Geek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro. co/ shedgeek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor and, honestly, for building something that helps the industry. Welcome back to part two of a three-part series involving all my good friends over at Shed Geek Marketing. Hope you enjoyed last week's episode. This is part two, and be sure to stick around for part three.

Shed Geek:

Like that's the one thing that, like that you can get so uber conservative.

Shed Geek:

yeah, that it's like, and make sure you don't laugh either don't have any fun, don't have any personality, don't have any life, and you're, after a while you're like oh my God, this drive me crazy, I can't.

Shed Geek:

I mean like,

Cord Coch:

which tends to have the exact opposite effect of what is like wanted right.

Cord Coch:

I mean as far as like how to actually, whatever it is, conduct business or raise up kids.

Shed Geek:

You know you get so liberal that you, yeah, that you're not grounded and it's like you know, I've used the phrase.

Shed Geek:

I didn't create it, I've heard it, you know. I think I've told you. You know, if you're not liberal until you're 30, you don't have a heart and if you're not conservative after 30, you don't have a brain Because, like when you're young, you're like wild and free and you know you want to live and do so many things.

Shed Geek:

As you start to get older you start to slow down a little it's just like don't stop, though, slow down, don't stop, don't get to the point where you're like I'm, I'm so conservative, I can't laugh, I can't have fun, I can't do anything.

Cord Coch:

You know, you know some of the first, some of the oldest writing in human history. You know the first sumerian tablets, right, that are just basically like grocery lists, um, you know accounting, like keeping up with wheat and stuff, like that kind of keeping track of your things, um, and then, uh, basically complaining that the kids these days are not like they used to be. That is a 4,000-year-old right, and like there's some like as you get older, you're going to think that way, right, you're going to be like I tell you what I think that way already.

Shed Geek:

My former pastor said there was a time where the church rejected the song Amazing Grace, Amazing Grace.

Shed Geek:

I don't know if you guys know it was written. I used to know who it was written by, but it was written on a ship.

Wyatt Kirk:

Wasn't it the same guy that wrote the National Anthem?

Cord Coch:

No, that's Francis Scott yeah.

Cord Coch:

Maybe it is, I don't know,

Shed Geek:

I just remember.

Shed Geek:

Eli Whitney created the cotton gin, I don't know where that came from but it's

Shed Geek:

you know, Whatever?

Shed Geek:

that is, it's an ancient story from, but it's, you know, I'm a historian. Yeah, that's today's media, isn't it? It's like that guy knows his history. It's like all you gotta do is throw the old cotton gin out there.

Shed Geek:

But now people are like, wow, he's very smarter than I thought what was the problem with amazing grace that it was you know, whatever, for whatever reason, like the yeah, it was new, so it's resisted, and I I think we could talk about that. I think we could segue that into matter of fact. Maybe the podcast has already started. You know, and welcome back to the shed geek podcast we're already, we're already rolling here.

Shed Geek:

But, um, yeah, like you know, I made the comment the other day. I said in the shed industry and it's probably all industries, but I know we do have a extremely conservative nature to our industry like, I do think that is a bit unique and you have to point that out. But I made the comment the other day. I said you can have a new idea in the shed industry and the first words out of someone's mouth will be it'll never work. Second words out of their mouth will be like go ahead and tell me what your idea is. Right. That's unfortunate. You know what I mean. Like, see, watching some of the uh, like if I were to just call things out right, I'll start alienating my crowd or get hate mail or get people to quit listening. I'm not sure. Uh, you know. Like, uh, love the mule. Mules done amazing. I mean, who can't appreciate the mule? I mean, have you seen that? What?

Shed Geek:

a piece of mail that they came out what's it's been to both facilities uh, at least the two that I know of and uh, up here in carrier mills and out in Grayson, Kentucky phenomenal what they're doing, amazing. But people just complain and complain and complain about like it's, it's a, it's a monopoly, which it's not. I don't, I don't believe that that's. You know, these guys got in and they created, or meant to create. They did good service and they put a good product out, so it dominated the market.

Shed Geek:

But challenger came out, you know, and we've done their website right like challenger came out and it's an awesome duel, looks neat, got so much resistance. So much resistance because you know, but I could name, I could sit here, name a lot of other things, technology specifically, that have faced so much resistance and I'll go back to I'm going to pick on my in-laws because I can I'll go back to my in-laws and I just remember them being like when we got a computer, me and Deanna. Uh, now, to be clear, I didn't own a computer till I was in my thirties. So, for all the people who think I'm just so super techie, sorry to let you down, I've been blue collaring it my whole life.

Cord Coch:

I just have bad eyes.

Shed Geek:

It helps the logo and the image, but the reality is.

Shed Geek:

I'm not smart, I just maybe look at because the glasses, right, I love that. Yeah, I just. We got a computer. My wife was the smart one she used it to do everything we needed to get done. And the reality is I remember my in-laws were like computer why on earth would I get that? Why would I need that? I'll never use that. Then it was the internet, right, and the next thing you know, they had the computer and they use it all the time. And then the internet comes along. Why on earth would we need that? We don't. You know like she uses it all. She we go over and she's teaching me things about speed and download and she's talking like in a different language and I'm like gosh, she knows more about it than I do. On this stuff.

Cord Coch:

It's such a useful tool for efficiency. My grandmother's 92 and she has scanned in every photo, every, every uh document, uh, the sale of a cow in 1946 that was a purebred named bessie, or whatever right like our family history. And every christmas she hands us, like all the cousins, all of the you know, my, my mom's generation and then all the cousins generation. We all get a thumb drive right that has an updated complete family history with photos and all this stuff. Right it's.

Cord Coch:

It's such a good tool yeah that, like, you wind up embracing it eventually. Yeah, right, but to your point, you know it's it is who embraces it first. Who who embraces it when it's marginal? Right, because and we kind of touched on this a little, I think we're maybe going to do this as a series or whatever but when you embrace that newness whenever it's marginal. If we here at Shed Geek right said that every employee needs to have the same value as Dylan, right. Who is the main primary value driver of this company? Right. If we said, well, everybody who comes on has to match what he brings into the company, right. Like dollar for dollar or whatever else, right. What you're going to do is you're just going to have a very high bar that keeps you from marginally 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30% at a time continuing to grab up that market share right.

Cord Coch:

And the people who move to it, when it is still marginal right, when sheds are still, you know, mostly just by pure percentage right? Maybe it's I mean, we hear now a lot maybe it's 50, 50 already right as maybe it is. Maybe it's still 60, 40 in some areas and 50, 50 and others.

Cord Coch:

Uh, referring to the number of online leads inventory versus you know, like, how that balance is working, or some of that's probably how we're attributing it, because if we're not tracking, if we don't have the scaffolding up and you don't realize that somebody went to your Facebook, page.

Shed Geek:

There's multi-million dollar companies out here who you know talk about ROI who have the missing components from the digital tracking analytics to be able to effectively measure that ROI.

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Cord Coch:

We've really tried to move people to a ROAS, r-o-a-s. Return on ad spend mentality. Yeah, because the truth is it's just like you need your mule or your challenger, right? Yeah, just like you need your tools, your scaffolding, your trucks, just like you need the physical assets that allow you to do work. That is what the well number one most people either need a website or need it revamped. Because now, if that website is not a pure conversion machine, if it's not trying to drive you to a phone number, drive you to an address, drive you to a 3d builder, drive you to a contact form right, if it is not actively trying to move you into a funnel, then it's, then it's not doing its job.

Shed Geek:

My watershed moment was the client who asked us to quote out a website. We wanted to quote a website, we want to do those things, but they wanted something very simplistic. So, you want to hear what the customer wants and there's also the concern of a very simplistic. So, you want to hear what the customer wants and there's also the concern of a very simplistic website as a measure of our work in some people's eyes. So, they'll see it and they go oh, that's the level of quality they produce. I don't really want to work with them.

Shed Geek:

So, we almost had to make the decision do we want to do such a simplistic website? Because it doesn't showcase our talent and the ability of what we know is more helpful. So, we've had to consult them into. You need certain uh amounts of functionality and things that that that make your website valuable and not just think with your uh pocketbook here, not trying to oversell you something. Just don't want to and at the end of it this this customer says, oh, before we go um, for that price. I know that it's really important to have that show up on the first page of Google. People have told me that. So, for that same price. I want you to make that happen too.

Shed Geek:

Right, and it was my watershed moment that I was like, oh, I don't know a whole lot. I'm learning so much, even from you guys, still to this day, but I know so much more than they know in this moment of this that, like when people say I want a website, the way I've explained it to people is like, okay, so let's get you the best functioning website out. Let's make it what does a good website look like to you? Or whatever it's like you know, and you go through all the stuff and they're like, yeah, and I'm like, okay, so this is the best one ever. Now let's go put it and I try to always equate it to sheds because, like there's a metaphor there that's understood, right always right yeah parables with Jesus sheds with us.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, right, you know, and so like we. So, I would say so you. You built this really nice, beautiful lot. You had 140 buildings on your lot, some of the most pristine buildings I've ever seen perfect, beautiful asphalt, paved well, landscape, well manicured. You can pull up to the front and it sits in the middle of a cornfield in Nebraska where no one can see it for 100 miles. So, you've got a cool website, but it doesn't mean anything without traffic leading you there SEO, right and then.

Cord Coch:

So like they're okay, I get that, I understand that, and this is a, you know, I don't want to call it a battle and be overly dramatic, but like, this is, uh, conversations that we have all the time with potential customers, especially, um, a lot of times at the dealer level, right, because, um, you know, frankly, some of the very large companies in the industry are not providing the sort of digital tools for their dealers for them to be able to compete with people down the road who may be their same size but just have a little more knowledge.

Cord Coch:

And so, you know, we want to meet people where they are, right, we want to meet them where they are. We want to be very conscious of what their budget is and how we can plan, you know, but on some level, just like, there is a minimum qualification for what kind of truck can pull that trailer, right, if you want to get three sheds on a trailer, you need a gooseneck. So, you better not buy a chevy 1500 off the lot with a with a hitch pool, with a hitch pool hitch on it, right, like, like, there there's a a certain minimum I think is what you're going for.

Cord Coch:

Maybe is that right yeah, yeah, tandem axle yeah you need right? I mean, all this depends on weight.

Shed Geek:

These shareholders that are listening are going to agree.

Cord Coch:

Oh yeah, sure, sure yeah you need a dually, you need a dually truck, tandem axle trailer, right the whole. I don't even claim to know the manufacturers right, but the point is you need the equipment that can do the job. And so, while we certainly want to, thanks, gal appreciate it.

Shed Geek:

Thank you, I appreciate it. Um people only saw us like regularly, sorry.

Cord Coch:

No, no, no, absolutely. You got to get your tea in in the morning. You know, I'm probably.

Shed Geek:

Where's my bagel?

Cord Coch:

Right, right, yeah, but anyway, you know, it is just a sort of you know, it's not. Sometimes I feel like, whether you can frame it, everyone being too honest is how we like to think about it, because we feel like we're honest people. It may be perceived sometime as pushy, but there's just a certain minimum level of equipment that you need, right, right, and that starts with a website. What is your data collection engine, right? What is able to scoop up not just you know IP data and device data, but what's able to scoop up conversion data, right? We don't just want to know that they hit your page, you know, and some marketing companies don't even dig this deep, right, but we want to know what you do once you're on the page, because that then affects how we retarget or how we create lookalike audiences.

Cord Coch:

And I know I'm now just starting to dig deeper in and I'm not meaning to have a full-on discovery. Call you know on your, on your podcast here you have.

Shed Geek:

You have to say, I think what you're saying is you have to set the expectation. Yeah, right, like you have to. And here's, I think it's a good watershed moment for us in this company because, like, we were going to talk about in the first podcast, but we didn't get to it, so maybe we'll bring it back up, um, and run this as a series, but we lost a client. Yeah, we lost a client. You know, and that and that and that shook us. It was like whoa, you know, like, because we had to, we had to dissect the whole nature of like where we failed yeah what happened, where we take accountability, all of that and I think there's a mixture.

Shed Geek:

I think there's a mixture of what the expectations are for us communication, all of these things but then also what the expectation is for the client, yeah, and the amount of understanding that the client has in terms of like, and if you're not careful, you will. This is why I say it's a watershed moment for us, because we we've done kitchen sinks. For those of you who've had discovery calls with us, you know what that is like. We can show you how you could keep spending money endlessly right in marketing. Yeah, it never has to stop there's always a marginal dollar.

Cord Coch:

Yes, there's always a marginal dollar yes, now is, is the, the very far reaches. Right, like you're saying. Right, we're not just talking about the, the initial setup and the tools you have to have right now. We're talking about do you want the king rancher?

Shed Geek:

that's exactly right about, do you? Want the.

Cord Coch:

King Rancher. That's exactly right.

Shed Geek:

Do you want that extra marginal piece? If we were selling you a car, we're going to take you out to the lot, we're going to show you the F-150 and the basic package and here you go. So, we can do this, we can lead the horse to water. We can show you need a website. And then we can wait for you to be naturally curious why it? And be like well, what good's this website if I don't have traffic on it? It's like, oh well, we offer an SEO package. And then it's like well, what didn't you tell me about that? Well, we didn't want to overwhelm you with that, right, like we didn't want to give you SEO and website prices because you weren't asking about SEO. You're asking about a website. Well, you should notice in me uh, an SEO package. You're like well, we just want to overstep our bounds. So next time we go to a client, we go, hey, here's a website and SEO package. And I'm like oh hold on.

Shed Geek:

Oh wait a minute, I don't do. I need all this, I just need a website. And you're just like oh well, I was just letting you know what's there. If you want your website to be seen, SEO would be a good way. Then the next you know we have to go through all the things that we know we have to go website. Well, before website we'll go back to branding, brand guidelines, brand book. You know, get into the website. Then, all of a sudden, we'll get into the setup, the GTMs, the GA4s, the Metapixels. Next thing you know they're like well, what good is all this? And then you know, SEO and SEO. And they're like well, all these leads are coming in.

Shed Geek:

And you're like well, you need a way to organize all these leads and they're like well what's a good option? Well, CRM. Why didn't you tell?

Shed Geek:

me about.

Shed Geek:

CRM, it's like, because then it turns into the kitchen sink. We can never stop. We can also start talking about video. We can start talking about all the deliverables to video.

Shed Geek:

We can start talking about all the different places that it goes. Are you done yet? No, we're not. We can keep going to automation campaigns, we can turn into post sales scripts, we can turn into email long form drip campaigns, but what we want to do is we want to make you money. So, before we get too caught up in all of the things that can be done we're willing to do, we want to share this very simple message with you. It's an investment. The same way you buy a two by four and nail them together to make it a shed, to sell it for money. That's marketing. Yep, it's supposed to make you more money than it's costing you. And that's our job. Yeah, and if we don't do a good job, then we don't get to stick around.

Cord Coch:

Yeah, and the model that we have. That's especially true, and maybe Wyatt can speak to this because you know.

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Cord Coch:

so twofold.

Cord Coch:

You know you started that with losing a client and really having to look at ourselves and dissect that and go back and say, you know, we feel like we've done very good work and have optimized and all this, you know, but we've had to go back and say, well, what we had to solve genuine problems. You know you have to find, go back and say, well, what we had to solve genuine problems. You know you have to find genuine problems and solve genuine problems. And I think that this is something that that um why I can speak to, especially because he is the one who is inside the, the CRM the most. But you know we're usually utilizing our own CRM to go back and say, hey, you know, this breakdown in communication at a project level, right, you know, in our mind we are taking that.

Cord Coch:

I mean we just ran through a bunch and I don't want to dump, you know, a kind of mind dump on people here. You know we take that website, marketing, setup, logo, redesign, brand book, whatever that line of items is right that our customer wants, and we take it and we start shuffling it around to each of the teams, right, we, you know, as account managers which Wyatt and I both are Dylan is as well you know we're taking those things, we're handing them off to whichever team is specialized in that thing. We feel like we have these things at hand, you know. But you know, frankly, as we kind of said on the, we were a bit of a victim of our own success. You know we had some failures in communication as we kept scaling right and we needed a scalable solution for those things. And just as many of our customers you know 100% could use some of these same internal solutions. You know we go to, you know we've gone to the CRM and molded it to solve real problems. Maybe if you want to.

Cord Coch:

You know not that you to the CRM and molded it to solve real problems Maybe, if you want to. You know, not that you have to dig super deep, but I mean just the really the possibilities of problem solving with the CRM.

Wyatt Kirk:

Yeah, it's, that is my favorite part of the CRM, but it's also what makes it the most challenging, right? Because there is when you, when you are creating an account within the CRM, it's essentially a blank slate. And so what I am doing, as I am building that out, is I am trying to communicate as much as possible to the people who are using it every day to find out what those pain points that we need to solve are, because some people I will bring up the fact that you can automate specific types of tasks right, but then those people rarely does a client have those tasks ready in their mind for what needs to be automated. That's a process they have to think it through. Well, what do I do every day? What are the things that I need to automate and to make better day? What are the things that I need to automate and to make better?

Wyatt Kirk:

So, as we were building out our own internal CRM, you know you and I have had plenty of discussions about the day-to-day process what do we do? How do we make this more efficient? But, like you said, how do we build that in a way that is scalable? So, that way, six months to a year down the road when, hopefully, we continue to grow, this does not become a conversation that ever has to be had again, where we're set up for that. So yeah, it's my favorite part of the CRM but, like I said, it's the most challenging because if you don't have those thoughts ready and those pain points, it's very difficult to know what it is that needs to be created. Of course, everyone kind of gets this standard pipeline layout. Everybody who does a new inquiry, follow-up, automation sequence has a pretty similar setup right. Each company is a little different in their messaging and what they want to say and the amount of touch points and the frequency at which those hit, but they're completely different. Once you get past that point,

Cord Coch:

You're saying they're bringing in leads.

Cord Coch:

You know, we all know they're coming from 3D builder ads, whether it be Google ads or Facebook ads website lead forms Website lead forms, however, those leads are coming in.

Cord Coch:

And then that initial contact, what we think of as that initial contact, workflow automation. But then, yeah, after that, point right, how are we genuinely solving something for them? And it really is. I mean, honestly, Shannon, you would be great at just like pulling these things out of people. Shannon, you would be great at pulling these things out of people because it's like you're saying, it's things that, unless you really sit down and you analyze how things went today or how things went this week, and really think through processes which you know, especially on the sales side of stuff, a lot of salespeople are not wired that way. That may. That may be what makes them most efficient, but most salespeople are wired in a way that is very relational.

Shed Geek:

Yep, they don't even realize their, what their process is, even if they have it, you know when you're a carpenter and you work on homes every day, build houses, do remodels, whatever it is that you do. What is the one thing that a lot of people say is lacking for a carpenter? You don't do your projects at home.

Cord Coch:

Oh yeah, yeah, If you're a mechanic, yeah.

Shed Geek:

You know, if you're a mechanic, what happens. You fix everyone else's vehicles and your vehicles are always in need of repair because you know the things that need to be done, but you also have the talent to fix it when something goes wrong.

Cord Coch:

Yeah, my dad has to just, I'm sorry, the carpenter thing. Just, my dad passed away in 2015 and we had lived in our home since 1998. He, they were builders, they, uh, they had a 20 year run where they built some of the nicest homes in Massac County, Illinois. They started subdivisions, they excavated ponds, you know like they started whole things right Built houses, custom houses, spec houses, did the whole thing. We moved in in 1998. When he passed away in 2015, he still had just a light bulb, did not have the ceiling fan up in his own bedroom, right like the wire nuts were there and ready. You know what I mean and the, but he just had the socket with. And you know, just like he, just like he just got done painting the day that we moved in, you know, and so we have had to become the carpenters and the mechanics in our own like, like company.

Shed Geek:

We have had to make those things happen for ourselves that we're making happen for others, because we you drop the ball on communication if you don't. And we're trying to explain to people how this will never happen to them while having to work on our own uh design on the inside of like who we are, why, like you're so busy spending time doing all these CRMs for everyone else, building out their funnels, doing all the stuff, and then we're over here killing ourselves going. Oh man, an email got missed.

Wyatt Kirk:

I can't tell you how many times I've been in a client's account or on the phone with a salesperson just brainstorming, you know, what can we do, what can we build? And then I come across something and I think to myself, oh, that'd be awesome if we had that you know, so it's but, but you're exactly right and why haven't we done this for ourself exactly?

Shed Geek:

we, you sit in judgment of yourself, almost and you're just like why haven't I done this?

Cord Coch:

yeah, why haven't I done this for us and Dylan I'm, and he'll I'm sure he would want to tell this in his own way, but I'll tell you. What we have done is we've went and hired um CR, specialists, right, why it now has a whole team around him. And we went and hired those people and said you do not get to work on client stuff until the internal stuff is done. Right, why it continues to serve our customers like he always has and he does a great job of it. Um, you know, and uh, he like he continues to work on that. But you know what winds up happening is the carpenter has to, has to hire a finish out guy, right, like the guy who built the house frame the walls can't, can do everything. Yeah, need somebody else to come and put that ceiling fan up.

Shed Geek:

Well, and there's nothing wrong with that right, just do it. It's relatable in this way in sales I think I told you yesterday what happens whenever me and you and Wyatt are selling sheds and I'm out selling you guys like a million dollars to your 300 000, management comes and says, Shannon, I need you to be a sales manager. But nowhere in there does it say I know how to manage people. It means I know how to make sales. And guess what the temptation is whenever I become a sales manager? To keep selling because it's what I'm good at, it's where I've made my money and it's what I like to do and sometimes alienates your sales team.

Shed Geek:

Absolutely.

Cord Coch:

My goodness, if the sales manager is scooping up all the best leads which you never you know, maybe they're the best or maybe he's really good at sales but either way.

Shed Geek:

That's something that somebody else but you don't you don't know that they're good with people right, and, and that's why it's important to get people into their right place. Let them shine where they are right, like, let them do and be good at what they're what they're good at. Don't try to force them to be something else. I think it's. Is it the einstein quote that you know? Uh, if an elephant is, is, uh, you know, trying to compare himself to the monkey who climbs the tree? You know, you're, he's always going to come up a failure. I mean, we could get into a standardized education conversation really quick. You know why I? I did terrible in school but have done fairly good in business, right, you know, because it was like well, that, that, like that was my talent. It just wasn't able to be exposed, you know, through the standardization of things. So, if we're not careful, you can put people in a bubble, and I think companies do this all the time.

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Shed Geek:

That let me not even say technology, because it comes with such a caveat. The digital landscape exists whether you're in the shed industry or not. We do not get to select to be agnostic from the digital landscape. If we're going to be in commerce, it exists. Customers have an expectation. Not everyone shops the way you shop. So, whenever you start doing things, you've got to get out of your head. In the way that you do things. If I go here, if I go to a car lot, this happens. That's not what happens to everyone. That's your experience and that's invaluable and that's good data.

Shed Geek:

You're part of the sum, though, right, yeah, you know so, like you have to get into these in-depth conversations of like, what is the experience of the customer? And right now is we're in this terribly unfortunate time where you have to spend all this time building up this nice, beautiful brick and mortar location. But you cannot ignore the digital landscape, and I would make the argument that going all in and none on the other is maybe not the best practice. Unfortunately. You're going to have to perfect both. Right other is maybe not the best practice. Unfortunately, you're going to have to perfect both right now and maybe long term. And the people who are doing the digital side we talked about a company earlier $10 million a year in sales, no website, no digital landscape Really hard to scale, guys. Really hard to scale guys. Yeah, really hard to scale. You know it's just going to be difficult. I'm not going to go on record to say impossible.

Cord Coch:

You're not going to get the marginal dollars that your competition gets.

Shed Geek:

That's the thing. Who's going to

Shed Geek:

take market share. That's the thing. My question is who's going to take market share from you that you don't even know is being taken? It's why you see such wide ranges on shed sales professionals facebook page. Who's seeing down year? My year stinks. It's terrible. The next guy's? I'm having the best year ever I'm having the best year I've ever had.

Shed Geek:

He's taking your customers

Cord Coch:

Well and it's, and at some point and in this industry it's not that far down the road you know like we try, and you know, get your scaffolding set up right, get that initial digital presence, get that kind of data gathering retargeting machine going right, and then what happens is you wind up competing on cost per right. You wind up competing on cost per click, cost per competing on cost per click, cost per conversion, cost per sale right. But then you're just making decisions. If you're talking about competition, right, every single dollar is not going to have the same return, this, this initial. So, the dollars that get spent right after demographic.

Cord Coch:

We could, we could get into a million yes, but the dollars that you spend right after you have built out this digital framework are the biggest marginal dollars that you can spend. Right, all of a sudden, your company has five more ways of bringing customers in the door. Right, so it's this huge return. But the ultimate thing is, where are the marginal dollars going to go? Right, so you know, we'll switch industries to one of our clients, that's non-shed industry.

Cord Coch:

Just as an example right, we have a customer who is in plumbing. Right, he's a Google guaranteed licensed plumber. Right, which allows you to run local service ads, LSAs. Right, and so, in his case, he has his weekly spend on local service ads set to $5,600. Now, google can't even spend that amount of money in his service area. Right, he basically spends 2,700 a month. Right, but he said set my weekly at 5,600. Why? Because we have optimized his digital scaffolding to the point that he knows that he is marginally taking leads away from his competition. Right, so he's saying give me the maximum spend because I have now scaled out this business into my local service area.

Cord Coch:

So, what's the? What's the next thought? His next thought is well, I have to go get to Lexington, I have to go get to Louisville, I have to get to Bowling Green, right, because I am now beating my competition in my local area. You know, and he is, he is obviously those, those marginal dollars at the end of that ad spend, the ones that are maybe not as good a quality leads, and you may close them at a lower rate, but the point is he is getting them and so, like that's the, that's where all industry is going, you know, and but especially in the shed industry, if you're able to sit there and just scoop up your geographic, you know basically your delivery radius, you know you really are able to compete for those marginal dollars in a way that your competition can't.

Shed Geek:

Closing those sales. Wyatt, we get you the leads. The biggest heartbreak for us over here is we can't sell the shed for you. I mean, I guess we could, but now we have to get into a sales force and we have to get into creating something to where we can, uh, aid. You know our, our leads. You know, like, do you stand behind your leads? Yes, so much so that we're thinking that maybe we need to create a sales force. So, it's like we're over here going gosh, if we're getting in this deep, how deep do you get this this?

Shed Geek:

I've been pulled into more accord, started a podcast. I've been pulled into marketing. I've been pulled into rent on. I've been pulled into finance. Uh, shed hub right, we saw that as a natural course of action, because what is it? It's a lead generation tool. Oh, it just happens to have the best SEO out of anyone in the industry. I mean, they're competing with lows and Home Depot, right, like so. So, it's like, how do you get conversion tracking set up? I mean, we need to talk about that the next episode. We need to talk about how, like that.

Shed Geek:

You know, I talked to someone the other day and they were like, well, we don't want to put our stuff on there. We're helping you build it and I'm like bro it's building on. It's at two million impressions last month. You know, I put a Facebook post out the other day said you want to. You want to understand how that works. I, I have 2.8 000 impressions on shed geek. Right, it's not optimized by any means, don't get me wrong, but at 2.8 is 2 million 30 000 clicks a person every 60 seconds clicking on they're looking for sheds. Your sheds are nowhere to be found. The SEO value alone at 40 a month, right for an entry level, is beyond fair. Like you could sell one shed break even. You sold two, you made money. You sold 10. You know and that's you know. That's just the subscription model and the way it works and things like that.

Cord Coch:

I understand it's a monster lurking right under the surface and Dylan, uh, and the, the web design team, the conversion, the, what we think of as like marketing setup team, uh, which is the one who do these custom conversions. And, uh, on big, big inventory websites like that, there's a lot of custom coding in the background. So this is a continuing project. Obviously, we all. We all know this, but for our listeners, I'm getting text messages right now about progress.

Shed Geek:

I'm literally getting WhatsApp updates as we sit here. This thing is a monster.

Cord Coch:

I mean, it's like those movies where you're, whatever, you're going down the Amazon River and everything is just so serene and there's a hundred foot boa, just like you know, like this, the uh, a man-eating crocodile right underneath the surface. Like you know, these um is so poised to be like a absolute lead gen. Yeah, just again, right, I mean we're just talking about grabbing from here and grabbing from there and making sure you've got SEO.

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Cord Coch:

But you know, I think, and we had touched a little bit on the sale itself, which, like you said, we can't, you know, we don't do that yet at this point right.

Cord Coch:

Like we're not literally offering that. I think we offer a ton of resources where people can go and we can recommend. We really like these guys. They do a great job of training, but there's a certain at some level, just like there is a certain sparseness of craftsmanship or quality of carpenters right At some point the talent pool of salespeople just in general whittles down too.

Cord Coch:

But one thing that we can help with and this is something that really and truly is underutilized but once you have that customer and the shed has been delivered, maybe it's on RTO and you need to have a good relationship with that customer, right, you know? Or you just want the review, or I saw on Shed Sales Professionals the what was it? $200 for a referral, that, what were you? You posted something on there that somebody that had done a service for you was then saying that I suppose you get like a referral fee or something like that anyway. But my point is, whatever that idea turns into, um, we call them post-sale success, automated workflows. I mean we, we have way you know my goodness.

Cord Coch:

I mean, you know we're like way too, yeah, naming conventions around here get a little long and then we wind up with acronyms for things you know, but like, but maybe that's, uh, something that white can touch on, because that's something that we white and I are always so ready when a customer asks, we're like yes, now you're thinking in the right direction. Right, let's, let's take a sale and turn this into a person who, who, goes and evangelizes how good your sheds, your service, um, your finance options. Right, like, um go ahead.

Shed Geek:

The conversation just comes into the CRM at some point. Why the? The thing is we try to lead by peeling the, the, the, the onion from the, the goal in three years backwards. So, we start peeling off layers. So like, is a CRM what you need initially? No, we can lead you into that, but like we would be remiss cord to set you up for failure to not tell you about the CRM when we start running leads for you, build a really good website, get some ad word, you know some ad content out there, and then all of a sudden you get all these leads and you go. Because we've had this experience, we have had this.

Shed Geek:

I'm sure confidence doesn't sound very humble right now, so please forgive me but we've had people like say, you gotta turn our leads off, like, you're getting us too many leads, you've got to turn them off. We can't keep up with them. And it's like well, that's because you need a. Sorry, Dylan was distracting me and I can't help but laugh because I can't be serious in a serious situation. You know, I've got to turn them off. I don't have a way to keep up with this. Well, if you had a CRM, you would. Well, what good is a CRM going to do? What's going to organize it? Well, I don't have time to do that. Cool, let's do some automations. That way you don't have to worry about that. What's automation look like? Well, I don't want to sound like some robot. Okay, so far from it I was. It is continuing to get better and better and better.

Shed Geek:

When they say, how do you do that, that's when I always feel like for whatever practical sales purposes here please forgive me for this, but the fish took the worm. Okay, like if I were being a traditional sales guy that said I just sold you. It's ask well, how does it do that? Cool, now we can get somewhere, because now we're talking about the process of how to make it happen, as opposed to your doubt that it can. I've got to overcome the doubt first and then we can talk about the actual process. So, what does the process look like? Oh, I want. I got 500 leads come in this month based off my ad budget and I don't want to do a CRM yet. But how can you show me that it can help me? Why?

Cord Coch:

and maybe even, and maybe even start at that, like, whatever we want to call it, whatever we want to call it, base model 2,500, duly, you know what I mean. Like, maybe it's not 500. That's all I'm saying. Right, maybe it's 150, right, maybe it is manageable. But what is the piece of equipment? Right, what is that asset that you need to just do basic work? And I think why it's really good at thinking through these, like these cases.

Wyatt Kirk:

Yeah, and I think to you know, the CRM itself is kind of an onion. Like you, there are across all of our clients that have a CRM account that we've built out. As I said earlier, no two CRMs look the same and depending on where you are at in your business is going to depend on what type of CRM setup you need. So, some people simply need a place to view all of the leads. We have some clients who have zero automation setup. They have a sales team that is able to manage all the leads in a quick and efficient manner. Nothing is getting dropped through the cracks and their pipeline at times is more organized and well kept up than the ones who have automations, because they knew exactly what they needed and that's what we created for them, whereas with other situations you have common situations.

Cord Coch:

Yes, most people are not running like a well oil machine like that correct.

Wyatt Kirk:

correct and part of that is you know, the as time has went on, even accounts that we have onboarded and they've been a client for, you know, say six months now, their CRM today looks completely different than it did when it was set up six months ago. Our CRM that we just turned on and got set up for ourselves and spent all this time building out, will look completely different in six more months because those needs change and that you know. Just to go back to what I was saying about the, it is a clean slate. That's the beauty of it, because you're able to grow into that. You're able to change it and adapt it to what it is that you need at that time.

Wyatt Kirk:

You know, for some customers, their initial lead capture follow-up process is solid and they you know I have learned so many things from clients, just them sharing with me what they do. So, for those clients, they need the post-sale automations, right. They need the small and back to terrible naming conventions don't really have great ones for this yet, but basically, I always describe them as functionality workflows. They need stuff to help them with tasks. They need that. When this happens, this automatically takes place over here and just those steps alone is going to be what helps them grow in their business, because this sector over here of initial lead follow-up is already running well.

Wyatt Kirk:

Initial lead follow-up is already running well. So, it's very, very interesting just to see the difference of needs in businesses and at the same time, while they're all different on a much more focused in level, they're all kind of the same. I was talking, I was on the phone with a client yesterday and I had brought up to him just the you know we were talking about his dashboard and the KPIs and he's like well, I've never really thought about KPIs for my business. It's like interesting, we're actually thinking about KPIs for our business, right.

Wyatt Kirk:

And of course, those KPIs are going to look different, but at the end of the day, we both have that need of establishing what those KPIs are to focus on. So it's again they're all different but at the same time there's the you know similarities. This is why it's consultative.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, this is what I think people don't maybe understand, as well,

Cord Coch:

we've learned from you, Shannon.

Shed Geek:

Yeah Well, and where did I learn? I learned from, like, just literally, like the Zig Ziglar, right, like help others get what they want, so you can get what you want. So be servant-minded first, right, be servant-minded first. Like how do I help you? We know that when we produce help, it produces money. Money is what it takes for us to be in business, live, support our family, all those good things, but let's try not to lead with.

Shed Geek:

Let's get this account

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I agree, I keep looking at the shed Mr Jenkins bought. Let's ask him where I got his.

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I love it. It's exactly what I needed, and I couldn't have asked for a better service. And where did you get it? Hmm, I can't remember, but let me check Something. This nice will probably have the builder's name on it somewhere. Hmm, no, I'm sorry, I can't find a name anywhere. Well, we finally got a shed.

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Yes, I just hope we're happy. The thing is a lot more shoddy than I expected and I'm sure I told them I wanted a window, but they haven't even had it two years, have we?

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Shed Geek:

right, let's try to lead with like where do we help? Yeah, uh, and we have not only. Not only where do we help, but like what makes us unique, specifically in marketing? Um, have we had some communication woes? Have we failed to answer an email or a phone call? Guys, we're not perfect. Careful, you don't hold us to the standard that you expect your customers to hold you to. Right, that's what I would say to a couple of clients like careful that you don't hold us to the standard that that you wouldn't want to be held to by your, by your own um, but it's it. It's consultative. We didn't create a consultation company. We became consultants by the very nature of having to educate, to sell.

Cord Coch:

We can't just come out and just sell. And similarly to our willingness to give you the base model, you know what I mean, willingness to give you the base model, you know what I mean Give you that model that does the job but is more budget friendly, or however. We want to talk or think about this in that same way, right, like we're more than willing to look if you're a company that has not thought about the KPIs, that, not just that you are thinking about. You know, I think a lot of guys have a number in their mind of what they are thinking about, right, but if you haven't thought through what, what are? What does the guy who is on that production line in that production bay, what do they think? Right, what do they think the most important thing to track during their day is? Right, I mean, these are just very subtle psychological things, right, I mean, and sometimes you're tracking things that are fun to track because they lead to success, right?

Cord Coch:

If you just count how many times the phone rings at the receptionist desk, that tells you something about how well your radio ads are working or whatever, right, you know, it's not a direct correlation, but it has this broader effect, you know. But. But my point is is, like we can be, we are willing to have that first conversation and think through how big is your operation. You know how many people are tracking things for themselves while you are then tracking the broader, like we're willing to have that first conversation and then we're willing to be you know 10 steps down broader, like we're willing to have that first conversation and then we're willing to be you know 10 steps down the road where we're evaluating dealer locations, right, where we're saying, hey, this is what our marketing research says about the areas that are 75 to 150 miles away from your manufacturing plant, right?

Cord Coch:

We're willing to do that as well and get deep and say, well, what kind of person do you want, right? Have you thought about doing personality evaluations, right? What is your process like when you evaluate these dealers? Again, the professionalization and me and you talk about this all the time but the professionalization of this industry, where all of those evaluative, strategic um gosh, some of the best, some of the best uh run companies that I see right now are anabaptist led with EOS processes in place. I mean, my goodness, you talk about cooking with gas.

Cord Coch:

You know what I mean like like you, fully dialed you give some people that just that, just have the joy of work, the joy of building, the joy of you know giving your best effort in everything, and then you give them a framework that says, man, here is how you be the best entrepreneur you possibly can be.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, right I mean it's incredible.

Shed Geek:

I wrote down race to the bottom and we'll just sell you something. And the reason I wrote that down in that conversation that you guys were having is we're almost equivalent to the conversation that you have out there on Facebook right now that I see on Shed Sales Professionals Do you list your price in the shed? Do you list your price on the website? I don't want to get into too big a theory here, you know, but I understand the people who say no, we don't list our price. I mean cause, like if you ask us about what our? We're a line item company. If you've ever seen our quotes, we explain to you everything that we're doing, like you have all of it in front of you. And if you call us up and say everything that we're doing, like you have all of it in front of you. And if you call us up and say how much for a website, that is just the hard question to answer.

Shed Geek:

yeah, I'm not trying to be mysterious no I'm not trying to not give you a prize, this is I've got some questions.

Cord Coch:

When you say what is the cost, yeah, well, yeah and it's 10, you know 10 factors that take 20 to 30 minutes. If we're doing a good job of just getting that and you know we're not even talking about content and if should we? Have a graphic or an animation. We're just talking about how, how do you approach this? You know shed, styles and the level of graphic design and like we have to go through 20 minutes of just sort of walking through it just to give you a price, a price.

Shed Geek:

It's not that we're trying to keep a price from you. It's if we want to get into our race to the bottom and say, guys, let's just run out there and put three page websites uh out there, this price and like, try to, you know, just get up all the business that you can. Possibly that that's the same as like let's just get this shed down to bare bones, let's sell the cheapest price out and let's win, because let's pound it in the ground and let's race to the bottom and whenever our sheds get down to 4500 and their sheds get down to 43, let's get ours down to 41, like let's, like that's not what we're doing. So, I'm not trying to get into a philosophy of pricing and non-pricing, but I have questions. What?

Shed Geek:

How much business do you do? Because I need to understand how big of a project is this going to be? How many shed styles do you have? You know, like me, like I don't care really about how much like net you do I need to know do you have 300 dealers, 20 dealers, no dealers? Like, what's the strategy if I just give you a price? Yeah, man, I'm doing me and you a really bad disservice right now to just be like oh well, who's the other guy, what's his price?

Cord Coch:

we'll beat it you know, no, like what's this? What's the strategy? Right, because they. Because, if you're talking about strategic implementation, there's a case that can be made for siloing, right, siloing ultra-price-sensitive customers, and again, taking those leads and, like Wyatt, would be an expert in this right. How do we target first of all, right, how do we get down to that granular targeting? And how do we start to demark in your market where, effectively, the income level it's not just income, some of it is discretionary, you know it turns into a little bit of a moving target. But where is the line where we need to try and silo off a certain type of customer right? And if the strategy says, look I, if you're to the point, right, if you're to the point where you have the 2500, maybe, hey, maybe you splurged right maybe you have a 3500 or 4500, 6500, right, like you've got everything and you've got the King Ranch seats, baby Looking good, you know what I mean.

Cord Coch:

Like, if you have all this stuff and you say you know what I want to make sure that I'm winning on those marginal leads that are coming in for ultra price sensitive customers that probably wind up being RTO customers, right, like there is certainly a strategy that says how can you do that? Right. But if it's not consultative, if you're not thinking like we think, if you're not, if you're not saying how can I silo that customer and put them into a, a uh, you know a workflow and even a funnel flow, right, that keeps them in that messaging and then works them all the way through and then tells your sales people when it lands in front of them, hey, here's a little tag right or here's a little demarcation that says this is a customer that is very price sensitive.

Cord Coch:

they came through one of our flows that is made to silo off ultra price sensitive customers now, that's a strategy implementation right, but just seeing it and then saying, my goodness, somebody is selling a shed for a hundred dollars cheaper than me and moving your price down 101 or whatever that's, that's not strategy.

Shed Geek:

Call and say I need a website? Heard, you guys do websites. How much a website cost? Like? You're going to be met with a barrage of questions. We're going to be consultative because it's better for you and us to ask questions.

Shed Geek:

Could you imagine we say I have a two thousand bucks, I'll give you a website. And then they're like cool, we need 30 pages, we need this, that and like. And then you say, well, you know that's, that's not going to work, you know. Then, all of a sudden, they're like well, you said you're like well, that's why I don't give you a price. I need to know more information. I've got to ask more questions. You know, like I, you know what, what do you? What do you want to do? You got a 3d configurator? No, I don't. You know what I mean. Like, why don't you?

Shed Geek:

What about some call to actions? What about series involving the folks over at Shed Geek Marketing?

Shed Geek:

Certainly appreciate you guys taking the time to listen to this whole mini-series and I hope you're getting a lot of valuable content out of it. Be sure to tune in next week for part three.

Outro:

Thanks again, ShedPro, for being the Shed Geeks studio sponsor for 2025, if you need any more information about ShedP ro or about Shed Geek, just reach out. You can reach us by email at info@ shed geek. com, or just go to our website, www. shedgeek. com and submit a form with your information and we'll be in contact right away. Thank you again for listening, as always, to today's episode of the shed geek podcast. Thank you, and have a blessed day.