Shed Geek Podcast

Strategic Planning for Shed Business Success with Coach David Greer

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 5 • Episode 71

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Coach David J. Greer joins us to share wisdom gleaned from his remarkable 40-year entrepreneurial journey and decade of business coaching. Our conversation dives deep into what truly drives business success beyond conventional growth metrics.

David introduces us to the power of the one-page strategic plan, a methodology that transforms business planning by starting with your desired future state and working backward. Rather than focusing on incremental improvements, this approach creates clarity around markets, capabilities, and quarterly goals that align with your true vision. It's a refreshing departure from the reactive planning most entrepreneurs default to.

One of the most thought-provoking moments comes when David challenges the "if you're not growing, you're dying" mentality that permeates many industries. He makes a compelling case that success should be defined by the entrepreneur, not industry standards or societal expectations. For shed business owners feeling pressured to constantly expand, this perspective offers permission to pursue profitability and personal fulfillment instead of growth for growth's sake.

The conversation takes a powerful turn when David courageously shares his recovery journey from alcoholism, illustrating how seeking help—whether for personal challenges or business growth—can be transformative. His vulnerability reveals a truth many entrepreneurs resist: we cannot solve every problem alone, and sometimes our fear of success proves more limiting than our fear of failure.

For shed industry professionals specifically, David offers strategic insights on navigating the shift to online retail, helping second-generation owners find their "why," and addressing industry fragmentation. His suggestion to focus excellently on serving the majority of customers rather than attempting to accommodate every unique case strikes a practical balance between growth and sustainability.

Whether you're struggling with strategic planning, defining success on your terms, or simply finding joy in your business again, this conversation will leave you with practical tools and a fresh perspective. And don't miss David's generous offer of a free one-hour coaching session—sometimes, an outside perspective is exactly what's needed to transform your business journey.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

Calculate Business Service
Digital Shed Builder
My Shed Solutions
iFAB
Shed Hub

Intro:

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our 2025 studio sponsor. Let's be real Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers while expectations keep climbing, and yet I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, Shed Pro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out.

Intro:

Shed Pro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions, from website lead to final delivery. You can quote, contract, collect payment and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. Contract collect, payment and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner and, instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention Shed Geek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro. co/ shedgeek. Thank you, Shed Pro, for being our studio sponsor and, honestly, for building something that helps the industry.

Shed Geek:

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast, and I have David here with me today, and, David, I'll tell you what I'm just going to. Let you open up by telling us a little bit about yourself who you are, what you do, how about that?

David J Greer:

Thanks, Shannon. Thank you so much for having me here today. I'm Coach David J Greer. I'm a 40 plus year entrepreneur. For roughly the last decade I've been an entrepreneurial coach and facilitator. I want all your listeners to know that if there's something in this conversation today that Shannon and I are going to have that resonates for you and you'd like some help, either in your business or we'll probably talk a little bit about my recovery from alcoholism either in your business or we'll probably talk a little bit about my recovery from alcoholism. I offer free one hour of coaching to anyone that is open to it. Visit my website. If you just Google my name and coach David Greer coach, it'll take you to my website and the top left corner has my phone number, my email address. Please just reach out and I'm here to help and I promise you after an hour together, you'll have at least one idea to get you unstuck. So, I just wanted to put that out there to start.

Shed Geek:

Excellent. No, that's great, and I love that we started out with that, because I can't, you know, we just don't, we just don't take advantage of those sometimes enough, those opportunities as a free hour with a 40-plus-year entrepreneurial coach at your disposal. Why not take that free hour? So, my encouragement to you is give them a call. You never know what happens until you do that discovery and start building that relationship. So, 40-plus years in coaching, man, you learned a thing or two or what, David Maybe? Okay,

David J Greer:

I wrote a book.

David J Greer:

It's called Wind in your Sales: Vital Strategies that Accelerate your Entrepreneurial Growth; and I interviewed over 45 other entrepreneurs and sales and marketing leaders for that book and like it's kind of a quarter of theory book about 10 areas, I think, of every business and then three quarters like practical ideas that you can actually implement. And as part of that interview process every chapter ends with a case study of an entrepreneurial friend of mine. So, you get my well the point. I wrote it I had about 30, 35 years of experience, but you also get all these 10 other entrepreneurs. You get all of their experience. They're a third of the content of the book.

David J Greer:

And why we got together and wrote this book is there's a lot of potholes from building business and if you want, you can drive into all the potholes that we drove into. That's totally your choice. But if you'd like to avoid the potholes that we found, which are some of the more common ones, and go drive into your own potholes, you might want to check out the book. And you know the idea of the book is if you're stuck on something, you look in the index. If you have a print version, that old fashioned kind of thing, or you know, in the Kindle version you just do a search and you know you read the appropriate chapter for maybe three, four or five pages and you'll again have one idea for like the you can apply to the current situation. You're stuck in um for me or from one of the entrepreneurial friends whose stories that I share, so we really wanted it a book to be that had practical ideas that can move your business forward today.

Shed Geek:

Well, it's excellent because you know you're, you know, part of our part of our audience, and a major part of our audience. They're all entrepreneurs, you know they're there, they all have that spirit about them. They started a business where there that was, you know, starting a manufacturing facility, you know, for sheds, or po barns or furniture or wherever all the other things. Or you know they've somehow raised up in a second generation, third generation and, and like some folks said, well, I never really sought to be in business. You know, like I just built sheds for a living and then all of a sudden there's all these other business concepts that go along with it. You know, and that's maybe not what they're, what they're good at or what they're familiar with or what they're used to, so a coach or someone to help guide them along the way and including myself, is extremely necessary.

David J Greer:

I want to share one little story. So, when I was 22, I joined a young software startup as the first employee after the founders, and I stayed 20 years and built it into a global powerhouse. So, for at least the first 15 plus years, if you asked me what I did, I said computer programmer. But literally I'd, you know, be going to a trade show in England to give a presentation and on the customs form it's like occupation computer programmer. And then finally, I brought some outside strategy and marketing people in and you know they said what do you do? And I said I'm a computer programmer. And then they'd hold up this mirror back to me and it said entrepreneur. And I said no, no, no, you don't get, I'm a computer programmer. And then they'd hold up this mirror entrepreneur. And I'd probably been an entrepreneur from age 23.

David J Greer:

But I didn't think of myself that way. So, when you share about people that are in the shed business, who came to it by family or you know they're just good with the tools and they started building them, it's like when did they become an entrepreneur? Well, you just became one along the way. But it actually helps if you think more like an entrepreneur if you want to build your business, which you know it turned out. Bob and I my former partner had done quite a bit of thinking, but at our heart we're still computer programmers, so I can really relate to that.

Shed Geek:

I can relate too, because I'm writing this down.

Shed Geek:

We used to have a program whenever I worked more in the corporate world. It was a program called Own it, you know, and the whole idea behind this own it program was that you treated your business as though you were the owner. You know, instead of uh, like if it were, uh, if it were retail, if someone says you know, could you uh give me directions to the uh restroom? You know, without trying to feel overpowering or overbearing, you'd be like, yeah, just right, this way I'll show you, because the owner might take an extra special interest in just like it's down there. Right, it's down that way. Take a right Like.

Shed Geek:

You know, I'm working, I'm busy, I'm in the moment, I'm working in my job, so I don't really have time to think Like. And when you say, think like an entrepreneur, um, well, you're forced to do that whenever you start a business, aren't you? Because you can, you're going to have all of these issues come up. Um, one of my favorite things is like, whenever people say I want to expand, like we get this a lot right and like our marketing, I want to expand, I want to double, and I'm like, oh, do you really want to double because, like, that's going to be a whole new set of problems and without addressing these things. So that's why we're having you know, having you on the show today, kind of explain these things to us, maybe some of these processes, what it looks like for a high performing company versus a company that's just getting by. You know, I open the floor to you Share some thoughts. I'm curious.

David J Greer:

Yes, so, um, so we built Robel, the software company I joined when I was still at university. I stayed 20 years, you know, bob, and I built it the way most entrepreneurs build it, which is kind of let's make it 5% better than the year before, and it was hugely successful. Like I don't want to, no, not right. Like it's a perfectly valid way to plan your business. But after taking a break, um, after I ended up exiting that business, Bob and I had a major disagreement we only had one in 20 years, but it ended in divorce, and he bought me out. Um, my wife and I commissioned a sailboat in the south of France, and we took our kids, homeschooled them for two years while sailing more than 5,000 nautical miles in the Mediterranean. I came back was an angel investor and all my technology entrepreneur friends kept talking about this one-page strategic plan and I really recommend people take a look at that. It's from a guy, Vern Harnish, and his book is Scaling Up and you can get the template for the plan. You can buy the book.

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David J Greer:

But I took one of my young angel invested CEOs to a Vern Harnish event because I didn't know anything at the time about this one page plan and I just had so many people tell me how wonderful it was, and he kind of blew my mind in the morning when he said the way his process works is where do you want to be? Pick a future point three to five years out, so like December 31st, like 2027, that'd be three years out Well, two and a half, but let's call it three and like where do you want to be then and what markets do you want to be in? Especially, what markets do you want to be in? What product lines? And like what are the key capabilities you need to build between now and then? Like maybe you need to build between now and then.

David J Greer:

Like maybe you need to build a whole new product line, or maybe you need to move into a whole new market, or maybe you're very satisfied with 5% of your growth and so that's your future point is you only have two more employees and your revenue is growing 5% a year over those three years, so that gets you to whatever that number is Like. There's no wrong answer to that, but it's starting with a process that looks three years out and writing down like the four or five, like some key numbers, like number of customers, revenue, profit level, margin level, like that you want to aim for in that time, which may be what you are doing today, like again or in, or maybe incrementally better, maybe the same margin, and then like what are like sometimes, if you want to double in that time, which is what you just said you had a person come to you and say, well, you probably need to do at least one or two key hires who are going to be help you to manage to that level. So, in your three-year plan, like one of the key capabilities or thrusts you need to do is to find, like this talent and attract them and be able to pay them. And then you work backwards from that to what are the crystal clear four or five things that we need to do for the year. My experience is either a entrepreneurs don't write anything down and it's very hard to be held accountable if you don't write anything down. Also, coaches hint if you write down your goals, it's a 50 increase your probability of achieving them, even if you never look at them again and even if you don't show them to anyone. Um, so yeah, so what are your four or five goals for the year that are going to get you to that place you want to go to three or five years from now?

David J Greer:

And then the core of kind of the Vern Harnish scaling up process is to do quarterly planning, and a quarter is 13 weeks and it's enough to get a lot done and short enough that if you're totally in the like, blow it completely or some new brutal fact shows up, you can, course, adjust and you won't like crash the business. And so it's this meet once a year, figure out your new three to five year goal, figure out your one year four to five goals and then plan for the quarter in each quarter. And I really recommend you get off site with your senior team to do that planning. I think it goes better if you get a facilitator to do it, and I have a video on my YouTube channel that talks about why you can do it yourself and I've done it myself. I've done it both ways. So, I have a video that talks about pros and cons of that.

David J Greer:

And anyways, I, because this doubling of business has a lot of consequences which, if you don't think through the consequences of that, which I think is what you were alluding to. Um, then you know, like okay, you do a great marketing campaign, you've doubled it. Well, can you supply that? Can you supply twice as many sheds in, like next year, let's say, the marketing plan works brilliantly.

David J Greer:

Like do you have the capabilities to deliver that many? Because your marketing plan and your operational plan have to march ahead together. I mean, marketing usually leads it right Because it takes time and takes time to generate leads. But at the end of the day, if it's too close, like if it gets too far ahead and you haven't brought operations up to where the marketing plan is, you're going to crash and burn. Like you're going to have huge demand and just massively disappointed customers because they won't your marketing plan worked. They want it, they are coming, they want it, they want it, they are coming, they want it, and you can't deliver. So, you also need that backing of the operational plan that makes sense in that doubling marketing plan.

Shed Geek:

It's almost as though we become comfortable with that too as business owners. If we're not careful, we get comfortable with.

Shed Geek:

Well, there's plenty of leads coming in.

Shed Geek:

I'm good for now, right, I'm good for now. But if you know, if you're like whatever you're doing, um, with the least amount of success with you know the customer you lost, that's just as important as the customers you've gained. I mean, you're as strong as your weakest link, right? So, like what you know, your reputation starts to suffer. And I wrote this down, David, because I've gotten in a habit of trying to listen to you and write down some thoughts without breaking my concentration. Here I wrote down you know something that was told to me one time before there's no greater burden than a good opportunity. You know, the good opportunity comes and success starts, starts to happen. All of a sudden, you're in this tailspin because, like most generation, the generation I grew up in, our parents was always like you better get something to fall back on, right, you better have something to fall back on and it's like but nobody ever said you better plan for the success you're about to have.

Shed Geek:

It was always like be prepared for failure, Don't be prepared for success, and I think that's something that we all do. If you are a mechanic, it seems like your car always needs worked on. If you're a carpenter, there's always that work that needs to be done around the house. And guess what, If you're in marketing or anything else, if you're in manufacturing, the things that don't get done are us taking a step back and being able to work on our business because we're so concentrated on working in our business.

David J Greer:

Correct?

David J Greer:

And you know when you're on the hamster wheel, when you're in the next fire like it I'm not saying it's easy, like strategically, to step back from the business and look at it is a really hard thing to do. You know like we get on the hamster wheel, and we get so afraid that if we don't pedal to the max to burn out that you know, like if we stepped off the hamster wheel and actually slowed down for a bit, we just think the business will fail. And that is almost like probably 99% of the time. That is untrue but it doesn't feel like it. And I want to circle back with an interesting thing you brought up that happens in some of my coaching and with me as well, which is, you know, we have this fear of failure, but I think for a lot of us we actually have a bigger fear of success. Right, and either from that story like you're talking about, like a parental story of you have to always have the fallback Um, or like one of my biggest fears, who do you think you are Like who? Who do you think you are to be a multimillionaire? Who do you think you know to be too big for your britches to like, so that actually um sabotages some of our plans for our success. And again, there's ways to work through it.

David J Greer:

But I challenge some of your listeners to like wonder about that. Like, is there a part of you that's actually afraid of the success that you want? Because at the end of the day, if that fear is present, consciously or unconsciously, I mean it can really hold you back and it's better to flush it out and figure it out and what it means to you. And again, that fear like what you're fearful of succeeding will be different for each of us, like the underlying belief story system that creates that. I mean, that's part of a coach. I help people go explore that and figure that out. Or I help them say, hmm, I wonder if you're still back in your fear of success. Could that be what's showing up here in this moment?

Shed Geek:

Well, that success brings, you know, as you alluded to earlier, a whole host of new problems, and without that three to five year target that you're talking about, you know how do you measure that success, or how do you measure that the effectiveness of your plan? Because essentially what you're doing is just kind of throwing caution to the wind and saying let's wing it.

Shed Geek:

You know, and at the end of the end of the year you're saying did we make money? I mean, it feels like we made money, but did we make money? Did we do well? Did I grow? There's so many questions that accompany it. Did I grow? Do I want to grow more? What's it going to take to go to this next level? Oh no, I realized that all of a sudden, I'm going to have to be this employer. I'm going to have to hire three, four, five people to take this, and I never set out to do that, I just set out to be an entrepreneur and be successful and it's like well, now you are.

Shed Geek:

So you know there's a, there's a. You talk a lot about culture. I know, and like one thing, that we, you know, we like to talk about culture too. And there's this thought, and I'm curious what your thoughts are on it, because it's kind of made its circle around our, our industry, for quite some time, and that is if you're not growing, you're dying. If your business isn't growing, then it's dying. What are your thoughts on that? What are your official coaching perspectives on that?

David J Greer:

I want to go back to that word, success Okay, because I think all too often that statement you just made if you're not growing, you're dying. So, by default, growth is success Okay.

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David J Greer:

And I challenge listeners and entrepreneurs to figure out what success means for them and not the story like, for example, governments love more and more employment, right? So media loves to report that, you know, unemployment's going down and all these jobs are being created by all these wonderful entrepreneurs, and so it's really easy to say, oh, I'm generating more revenue, I'm hiring more people, I'm creating, unemployment is going down and all these jobs are being created by all these wonderful entrepreneurs. And so, it's really easy to say, oh, I'm generating more revenue, I'm hiring more people, I'm creating more jobs, I am successful. Well, that's someone else's definition of success, and you said that about your industry. Like, there's this story in the industry, if you're not growing, you're a failure, and I mean maybe the dynamics of your industry. That is a true statement.

David J Greer:

I, I don't. I know nothing about the shed industry, so I I can't speculate, although I would say off the top it's quite unbelievable, right, like you're, I don't know. Let's say, you're a two million a year business and you're making. I don't know what your margins are in your business, but you're making a quarter of a million, a 2 million a year business, and you're making. I don't know what your margins are in your business, but you're making a quarter of a million 300,000 a year Once you're and you're taking a hundred thousand a year salary and like, if you've got a market you're happy with and you don't have 10 competitors trying to beat you to the door and you're happy with that size of business and making that kind of money and the runway for the next five years looks pretty good for that, go for it. Like you don't need to grow. I mean you need to be cautious if some competitors are going to come and take away a lot of your market share and then it's like so that's part of making sure that strategic thinking and that marketing thinking. But as long as that's there and you've got key people and you've got the finances to keep building, to doing what you're doing today, go for it. I mean, you're the entrepreneur, you're in charge. It is your choice. I don't think you should buy into the government media. You have to make jobs to be a successful entrepreneur, because that's what we say. I don't think you should buy into the shed industry story that it's growth or failure. It's just a story and you know, you decide.

David J Greer:

And then the other thing. You know I work with entrepreneurs. They grow the top line revenue. Who cares? Like, you start a business to make money. Like, how are you going to double your profits? I'm way more interested in those plans. How could you, how could you build efficiencies in your business? How could you hire Shannon to be twice as effective in your marketing plans? Um, and you know, spend half as much and get twice as many leads. Uh, so that, um, like, you are making more money. Uh, I, I, I work a lot of entrepreneurs to make more money because, at the end of the day, like, I think that's why we start, we should start businesses. We start businesses for many reasons, but at the end of the day, go make money well, it has to make money.

David J Greer:

I mean even, even, but go make lots, like again it's, it's like fear of six, like people go make a million a year like go for it. I I'm like I really encourage people go make lots of money.

Shed Geek:

Don't just focus on like generating tons of revenue, like just go make lots of money and be just proud of it well, the more, the more that you know you're fine, the more that you know you're fine, the more that you make you know, the more you can be giving right. So, like giving as a cause, for instance, you know, and maybe you've been you possess the talents that have been given, the talents you know to be able to, to, to do that, to, to, to learn how to earn money and like, then your heart is naturally to be that of a giver and not a taker. So, like you know, like naturally you're like well, the more I make, the more I can serve, the more I can minister, or whatever it is that your passion is for, why you started business. So if you say, well, my job's not to, it's like sales. I have people all the time say, well, my job's not to pressure the customer, and I'm like, no one's job is to pressure the customer, right, whenever they come in to buy a shed. But everyone's goal is to sell them a shed. It's not my goal. My goal is to help them. Well then, selling a shed will help them, because that's probably why they're there. So, there's nothing wrong with saying I have the product, I have the solution, I have the fix to what you need. And like I want to make sure that you know that I mean church works in a very similar way, but it still has to pay the bills. You still have a light bill, right? Yeah, it's still got to make money. And that's the confusing side is understanding your why, right, understanding why do I do what I do At the end of the day and I think that's a challenge for a lot of people and we have a couple of strong lines that we use, David, not to just be self-promotional this whole time we have a couple lines we use in our marketing.

Shed Geek:

You know where it's strong? It's strong language like we're, our job is to make you money. Our job is to make you more money than you're spending with us. And if your marketing agency isn't doing that, that's what we want you to brag about. If you're working with us by any means, it's like hey, they made me more than they spent, because that's our value proposition. We're attempting to make you more by spending, yes, uh, with us, the professionals to help accomplish this. So, like, if we're not doing that, we're fired, like we got to kill what we eat, right? You?

Shed Geek:

know, like we're, we're you know,

David J Greer:

So, help me out. So, if I'm a homeowner, so in say, the homeowner section of the market, like what's the biggest pain point for a homeowner, as to like the top three or four why they want to shed.

Shed Geek:

Oh, great question. So, like for many years, it seems as though sheds have been primarily for storage purposes, for excess. You know, what's interesting is that now you're starting to see like, especially COVID ushered in a lot of this. You know, like home offices, you know additional housing, maybe for, like, an in-law suite or something along those lines. Right, you know. So. Now, all of a sudden, there's this we went from building a box right, building a little box to store your stuff in, to building a little box that's like another version of a home. So, the tiny home movement and all of that stuff. And you know like, uh, we, we serve to me. We serve both markets, we serve both the, the minimalist who wants to go smaller and have a smaller home and have less, you know, excess things. Then we also serve the traditional American family who's like all this stuff's not going to fit in the house.

David J Greer:

I got too much.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, we got to, we got to put it out here and then, you know, that's kind of morphed into other areas like gazebos and pergolas and you know, play sets and post frame and all these different things. But generally speaking, you're attempting to solve the problem of storage and the key point really here is backyard storage. You know, like storage that's convenient right there. Like these things get delivered, you know, on a truck, a trailer, a little couple different machines out there that move them right into place into your yard, level them up, really nice. And now you have the convenience of a what would be a storage unit down at the corner of you know, x and Y Avenue, two, three, 15 miles away. I can go right out in the safety of my backyard. Well, now these people are turning them into yoga studios and music studios and they're becoming so much more just a place to keep your lawnmower or your Christmas tree.

David J Greer:

I wanted to circle back to your sales comment about helping people. So, my belief in marketing and sales is it's all about the pain in the marketplace and how your pain pill solves their pain. And the bigger their pain and the better your pain pill, the more value. So, you know, to me, as if I were a salesperson without knowing your industry very well, you know I would do the discovery piece with every lead to like go one or two layers, asking why, why do you want to shed? Okay, and then they'll give you the surface answer and then you ask well, why is that important to you? And by the third time you ask why.

David J Greer:

You're probably at the root, like what really is bothering them, and then you just need to show them how working with you like will put them out of that pain.

David J Greer:

And so I think you can still be of service and like it's not a pushy like you know I'm just on quota and I'm just trying to earn commission, um and you, you can be of service and still generate a heck of a lot of sales by really understanding deeply, like, the pain that the individual lead is experiencing, for whatever it is, because they need the home office, because they do have a storage thing, as you say. That's 15 miles away and they just got really tired of driving back and forth and they still have some legitimate need for the stuff that's in there. So, when I coach entrepreneurs I help them at a high level to better understand that and then help them to coach their salespeople to better understand and show up in that way. Pain pill, pain pill. Because if you can really help the client understand the pain they're in and then really show how your solution just puts them out of the pain, I think it just creates massive value.

Shed Geek:

And the value is so valuable. What is that? Somebody was telling me about the Purdue study or whatever the other day, where you know, if value exceeds price by even 1%, you have a buyer right.

Shed Geek:

So, it's always about value. It's always about what value you're able to bring in. In this case, like you said, a solution. On that note, I'm going to ask this question. I'm going to be bold, right, I'm going to ask this question. Why should business owners hire a coach? What is the value proposition there from your perspective? I see tremendous value in it, and I could probably go on and on and on, but I'm curious. This is what you do for a living. You got 40 years of experience in this. Yeah, I would be remiss not to ask this question. Why should business people hire a coach?

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David J Greer:

Few reasons.

David J Greer:

One is so people oftentimes come to me because they're in crisis or like things have gone sideways or really bad, and I'm happy to be hired on that basis. Um, a lot of people are stuck. So, they get to that million- dollar plateau or four or five million dollar plateau and they still want to grow the business. They've been working at it for three, four or five years. It's not growing, so it's another kind of stuckness. Um, and so you know they they'll hire a coach like me to help figure out like why and there's no like universal, why it's. It's specific to the entrepreneur, their situation, what the business they're trying to trying to build. Um, and I guess the other piece is um, as entrepreneurs, we are incredibly driven and it's super, super hard for us to ask for help.

Shed Geek:

No truer statement has ever been made on this podcast.

David J Greer:

But at some point it's just too hard to keep doing it alone.

Shed Geek:

There's only 24 hours in a day right.

David J Greer:

Yeah, there's only 24 hours. If you don't work with a coach, find a mentor, join a peer group I'm sure, like you've said, you've told me you know before we started how big the shed industry is like I'm sure there is entrepreneur peer groups, or get involved in a local group and have breakfast meetings, like yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm happy for you to hire me and for us to work together if there's a fit, um, but there's other solutions and really, but at its core is, stop trying to do it all alone, like it's just you can like, but you know it's.

Shed Geek:

It's pushing a wet string uphill a mountain on a muddy path and you can do it, but it's not the most pleasant experience and it's a heck of a lot harder than it needs to be a lot of entrepreneurs you've probably seen this over your 40 plus years a lot of entrepreneurs not just have a hard time asking for help, but they're so focused on um the, the idea that is at foot and accomplishing it, and then oftentimes they don't know how to step away and allow for other people to be good, because it consumes you, because it's your baby, it's your idea. So, to let someone else come in and kind of offer some advice, it feels like you're having to let go and that feels very painful to have.

David J Greer:

Very vulnerable and very vulnerable. Right, I meet many, many entrepreneurs that need help. Most of them I can't help because they're not open to it Right. Open to it right, like you have to get to some point, um, where you know, um, you're, you're at least willing to uh, take that chance and um, think of things differently, which, if you let me segue into a deeply personal story. So, you know, I ended up hiring a coach because I was really unfulfilled after three or four years of angel investing. I didn't understand how unfulfilled I was till I was at a, an event, a learning event, and there was a coach at the back of the room and I talked to him and he made me more uncomfortable than I'd been in four or five years. In fact, I had tears in the corner of my eyes and I ended up hiring him, coach Kevin Lawrence, brilliant entrepreneurial coach, and we worked together for nine years. But for about 18 months we worked together and reestablished my career and got me moving and working with more people at my level and kind of cleared all the clutter off the table, till the elephant in the room was the only thing left and he was the first human being.

David J Greer:

I admitted I had a drinking problem to, and I'd been an alcoholic for over 20 years, a daily drinker for 20 years. It was my deepest, darkest secret. I was in complete denial for almost all that time, and you know I engendered enough of a trust relationship to admit it to Kevin, and we had worked together long enough that I knew, once I put that out there, that Kevin would never let me off the hook. I didn't know what that would look like, I didn't know what would happen, but I put it out there and it turned out in Kevin's personal life, at his summer place around the campfire. He had become friends with someone with decades of experience in 12-step recovery, and Kevin is a very curious guy. He talked to him. You know how to get in the program, how to work for him.

David J Greer:

So, when I showed up and Kevin had no idea that I had this problem, he knew what to do. So, you know, he asked me to commit to going to a 12-step meeting by that Friday. This was a Tuesday and I had a networking event downtown that ran until 8. And I went online and looked and lo and behold, at 8.30, there was going to be a meeting a quarter of a block off the road I'd be driving down to go home and I went to that meeting and about three quarters of the way through the chairperson asked is there anyone new to the program that wants to introduce themselves? And I waited 10 seconds. I probably waited 20 seconds and then I finally stood up and said I'm David, I'm an alcoholic. I probably didn't know in that moment what I was really admitting to, but I was actually in fact admitting to my truth.

David J Greer:

And a month or so later I made it my home group and last night I was at my home group and I'm now almost 6,000 days sober and two people were there last night that were there the night that I walked in like to have the gift of that walking the path together of recovery, and I share that. So, know, if you're listening and you are challenged by alcoholism or addiction, that there is help, there is hope, and if you've got sober or clean and you're still struggling as an entrepreneur, I get it. I know what that is like and I also want to share it because, first of all, it took a lot for me. You know, Kevin's card sat by my phone for three weeks and every time I thought about picking up the phone and calling him. The phone weighed 10,000 pounds Until three weeks.

David J Greer:

Three weeks in, Kevin called me, and he said, hey, do you remember me from the Vern Harnish event? And I said, oh, yeah, I do. I didn't say I hadn't thought about much else for the last three weeks and thank God, Kevin reached back out and you know. So, it's really, I want to share in that getting help it was one. I had the courage to hire Kevin and to get help from him, even though my motivation was career-wise and it turned out to be much bigger. And then, you know, I got help by going to a program of recovery where we help each other. And you know my belief, at least in in alcoholism and addiction, is that the mind that got us to that point is not the mind that can get us out Like it's virtually impossible to do it on our own, because we have to change the way we think, which is what 12 step. You know. The 12 steps are a way of changing how we think and what we believe in, and so it's just two personal examples of where I reached out for help.

Shed Geek:

Too much time has gone by for me to be able to call names like off the top of my head, but the founder of the 12 step program, um which?

Shed Geek:

I used to know.

Shed Geek:

Yes, thank you.

Shed Geek:

Uh, uh, you know he talks about going to. Was it uh, 365 meetings in 365 days, or whatever it was? And it was just like uh, yeah, yeah. It holds a special place in my heart because if you're being balanced in life, in your approach to business part of that includes man you're holding a lot of people's livelihood responsible because of what decisions you make. So, like if you're an entrepreneur and you hire all these people, like the decisions you make are important. So, in many ways your life is kind of on display as the owner, as the boss, as the entrepreneur, as the leading spirit behind. You know the effort that you guys are putting out to run a tiny home company or start a shed company or a furniture company, whatever it is that you're doing, and I think that being well balanced in those areas and addressing those areas of difficulty, I think they're important and we have, like we have such a big part for addiction recovery.

Shed Geek:

I think I told you I've worked for you know, one year in the faith- based drug and alcohol rehabilitation world. It was one of the greatest, most excellent years of my life to be able to serve. You know you didn't do it for the income. You know you did it for the outcome Because, trust me, the income wasn't, it wasn't there, you know. So, like you weren't doing it because you, uh, you, you were hoping to get rich on it. You, you had to go in with the mentality of like how much you wanted to help and there's always this um Thank you for your service.

Shed Geek:

Thank you for your service to all the people that you helped in the time that you were there all the people that you helped in the time that you were there. They helped me as much as I ever helped them I. That's the way it works out.

Shed Geek:

That's the beauty of it.

Shed Geek:

I think some of those folks ministered more in my life to me I had yeah, it's just like. They're just, people are people and some of them are absolutely excellent and something like, uh, you know, alcohol is not their uh identity, it's part of their identity. And the truth is man, I've met some of the best friends who have gone through some of the hardest stuff. Matter of fact, all the ones that have gone through some of the hardest stuff, they're some of the best ones to lead because they can take you to all the places. They've been there, they've been through it, so they're very confident it so they're very confident and it's good to see their confidence, because they need that, because they're attempting to live in freedom from this.

David J Greer:

And we're not as afraid of the darkness. Because we've been in the darkness, we know what it's like to be helpless and hopeless.

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Shed Geek:

They're some of the best helpers. That's why I love it that you know for your life that turned into you being a coach and I'd love to just certainly know more about your story. And one of the first things I want to do is mention again an hour. Like, if you guys call David, he's committing an hour of free coaching to you. So, if you go on the website and do the things, find the phone numbers, fill out the lead forms, do all the stuff to get in touch with him, he's saying hey, come on and talk with me. Uh, you know I've got an hour here so that we can figure out if it's a good fit. Um, but yeah, just your story in general. I definitely want to read your books. I don't know if it's on Amazon.

David J Greer:

When you're done your sales. Every place that books are available you can. You can Kindle, kobo, whatever. However, you like to consume books, and audible too.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, well, I might do audible, do audible we. We do a lot of uh. We definitely do a lot of uh audible I like a lot of. I listen to a lot of podcasts we'll still a lot of music and listen to a lot of audio books, David. That's just that consumes a lot of my life. So, um, yeah, man, I believe people buy from people that they trust. So, you know, uh definitely wanted to have you on here today to talk more about your product. Uh, is there any questions you have for me? I always like to open up uh towards the end of the interview. You know we're only I don't know, we're only close to 40 minutes in or so, but sometimes it'll create some good conversation. Uh, me and you don't know each other extremely well, right? So, so, uh, the audience is getting this first fruit here. You know what I mean. Like, uh, do you have any questions about the shed industry, David? Any directions that I can point? Podcast.

David J Greer:

I'd like to dive into your experience. So, from your perspective today, like, and for the clients that you serve, like, what do you think is the number one challenge that they're facing today?

Shed Geek:

Oh man, what a good question, because if I have to break it down to one specific thing, Top three or four and we can decide which one is the number one.

David J Greer:

Okay, perfect.

Shed Geek:

Yeah, I would say one of the hardest things is embracing change in the retail world. So, like we sell a product that is a retail product. If you limit this to just sheds. We sell storage solutions for people and then that's a retail product, and to me the way that retail is changing presents a problem, especially to a rather conservative industry. The digital world, the digital platform specifically I think COVID helped usher a lot of that in Amazon. I mean, we're seeing younger generations that are just choosing to shop different.

David J Greer:

So are you saying so? I understand correctly? Like the change in retail is you have this younger cohort that like just want to go online and buy a shed.

Shed Geek:

Yes, that's that kind of the summary, or seemingly or seemingly moving that direction from our eyes, of what we can tell is like there's going to be there's not going to be less, there's going to be more. And that's a little counterintuitive to like a more conservative. You know industry, especially. You know I've talked with you we have a lot of Anabaptists in our community, Amish and Mennonite, so it's not that they're agnostic to technology completely. There's a lot of you know emails and things like that.

Shed Geek:

But it's hard to embrace wholeheartedly the tools that are going to allow you to take market share and still maintain in this brick and mortar space. That's not to say that we should abandon one space completely by any means. It's online sales. That's a term that gets thrown around just all the time, right? And it's like trying to reel all of these different terms in and like educate through conversation. We like to use our platform, the podcast, to be able to help educate some thoughts, and then, of course, we service that industry too, right? So, like, I don't know, maybe we're seen as biased is the way we see it, but we welcome anyone to come on and challenge that thought either yeah, and you're also on the cutting edge.

David J Greer:

Like you know, you're selling marketing solutions that people are using who are trying to sell. So, like you are seeing what is going on. So, beyond changes in retail, what you know, so what would be the second challenge you might identify in today's markets for the shed industry?

Shed Geek:

I think, kind of going back to what we said at the beginning of the podcast, like a lot of guys got into building sheds because their dad built sheds but you know, so it's kind of like normal to well, let me take over the family business or let me get involved, but is there a? Is there a conviction on that? Like, does the business drive them? Does it feed their, whatever their, whatever their success is? You know? Um, I remember that a lot their parents.

David J Greer:

Why was to? Was to be a business, for whatever reason that was important to them. And now the second generation, like they don't have the same why, or they're having trouble figuring out why they want to continue to run the business. Is that a fair like comment?

Shed Geek:

very fair yes, yeah, yeah, and I think, uh, you know, outside of that it's, it is um, um, it's a fragmented industry. So, we have a lot of different fragmented pieces to the industry. There's wholesalers and then there's consignment and there's just not a one-size-fits-all right. There's not a one-solution software that helps and there's a lot of guys trying to race to get to that. But to me, with the fragmentation of the industry you were in software Every time we work with or build a software, it seems like in the industry it may fit 60% or 70% of the clientele, but it's really hard to create something that is going to be sustainable for all the uniqueness that exist in our industry so my coach's challenge to you would be is 70 good enough, perhaps, like, is it worth pursuing that 30 outlier, given how much customization and work and you know how many little different pockets there would be, and just to stay hyper focused on the 70% that you cover now just really be awesome in there.

Shed Geek:

So that's my coach's question to you no, I think it's a great question, I think it's very fair and I would, you know, I would almost challenge some of my friends, who even advertise with me here on the podcast, to consider that question today, because I think a lot of them have either not came to that conclusion or some have come to that conclusion already that, like we built this, we're going to serve the greater good, the greater majority. It's going to be really hard to customize every detail based off of all of these nuances and and you know, I think it's the same way for even a shed, you know, like I had somebody, I had a shed manufacturer tell me the other day I gotta, I want to keep that anonymous, it's a, it's a, it's a sizable company and people would know the name.

Shed Geek:

And I was talking to one of the people in charge and they basically said you know, like we, we, we kind of got away from all these other products. We did focus on the 70% to your point here, David. Like we didn't get into chicken coops and dog kennels and all these other things. And as a dealer and someone who's been a dealer before, you want everything you can sell, you want anything you can get your hands on because, like that's going to help increase your uh, your success from a financial perspective. So, you want to sell more.

David J Greer:

But their thought was well, it takes away the focus on selling the bread and butter, the primary product so if we go back to some of the things we talked about, so like first of all, success, like just selling more is not necessarily success Cause, like if it's so hard to warehouse that and it's a different market, and then separately, like one of the advantages of this one page strategic plan is, from a marketing point of view, like getting really clear about what's in and what's out, both in, like the goals you're trying to achieve and the markets you're trying to serve and the product lines you're carrying.

David J Greer:

Because I think in business, especially as we move down into the organization, it's very hard for people to say no. And the idea of the one-page plan is it gets crystal clear for everyone in the organization, like right down to, like the shipping doc or whatever you know, whatever you want to call you know the farthest away from the CEO position. Make it easy for them to say no or yes and to know what's in and what's out. Because that's actually how we make a high-performing business is we make it easy to say yes to the right things and then no to all the other things that don't make sense. And that's part of like grasping and getting really, really clear on these things, which is the one page plan is a tool to help you get clear on that.

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Shed Geek:

I'll give you a real case scenario. And again, I know I sound like I'm probably pitching marketing, I guess you know. Constantly, because it's part of our business, we do several things.

David J Greer:

Well, that's what you do.

Shed Geek:

I'm going to pitch it, if nothing else and just you know, ask the audience to forgive me if nothing else to say that, hey, we've earned the right to have the platform so maybe forgive me for that, Right. So, this is something that we've learned. And, like, we've earned the right to have the platform so maybe forgive me for that, right. So, this is something that we've learned in, like, we've had to educate a lot of our consumers over what we said. Not because they're not smart, not because they're not intelligent people they might even be better marketers than us. If they ever got into our space, it's because this isn't what they've spent their life doing, or?

Shed Geek:

what they spend their every day doing they build sheds. I always tell them, if we went out and had a shed building competition, like, just imagine I could put together 80 percent of what a shed might look like, but that doesn't mean that I can. I think I might have lost you. Oh, there you are, you're back. Ok, I might. I might be able to build 80 percent of what a shed looks like, but it's really going to be that extra 20%. That's going to tell all the difference, right, and it may really tell a big difference if it falls apart because I didn't build the foundation right or I didn't fix something, so the customer is really going to know how important that 20% was.

Shed Geek:

It's the same way with marketing. You can do 80% of what we do when we set ourselves apart in specialists. It's that 20% right. And then it's like working with multiple people in the industry so we can pull on experiences in Utah and Florida and New York and we can say, hey, we can use all that that we've learned in this industry to your benefit without having to talk about the specific details of our client in Utah or New York or Miami, right.

David J Greer:

It's the knowledge base you're able to build because you have such a diverse customer base, and your future, existing and future customers get to benefit from that. That's right, Because they get to draw from a much, much bigger knowledge base and practical experience of what works and what doesn't work that you've built just by the experience of helping so many people in so many different areas.

Shed Geek:

Now here's what we've experienced through that process recently. Right, I go back to my shed selling days. I had a guy come in one day and he said, sniffing around the building, he said they use formaldehyde in this building. I was like you know, I don't, I don't know, I don't know if they use formaldehyde in the products at all. I'll be honest with you. I just that's a question I never thought I would get. Right, seemed very yeah, yeah, so anyway. But I researched it, because I did my due diligence, because I wanted to know, and I was like I hope I don't get caught off guard by that anymore. And it turns out that the formaldehyde that's used in it is so little that, uh, the government doesn't even require them to list it as being used. But for him he was like I can smell it, so I won't buy it, you know, as long as it's got formaldehyde, whatever.

Shed Geek:

Then the problem was whenever, whenever I was selling, I became such a product specialist that I couldn't wait to tell everybody everything that I knew about the product, right? So, when they came in, they would ask a question that I would never give them an answer to, like uh, you know, oh, they might ask a question that's very, very generic, like, well, how are they constructed? Is this, is this one, considered a good building or is that one a good building? What's the difference in them? I don't really. I'm not a construction expert, so I don't really know. Like, am I paying way more for that? Is this one way better?

Shed Geek:

So then, all of a sudden, I would launch into all of this knowledge that I had right. You know, well, you know, this is built 16 inch on center, which is built like a house, and all built 16 inch on center, which is built like a house, and all that basically means is this if you're going to finish it out, you put some insulation in there. You can get that r13. You know, with 16s it's going to be a little cheaper than you can r19 or whatever on the 24 inch on centers. And I've got double top plates and, by the way, this thing does not have formaldehyde in it and they're just like okay, and we've done this in in marketing, because what we've wanted to do is we've wanted to say here's this comprehensive picture of what we offer. We do all these things, all these things, and what you're going to find is, if you the leg bones connected to the debug right.

Shed Geek:

If you use service A, it's a matter of time for you're going to need service B, and it's a matter of time for you're going to need service B and it's a matter of time for you're going to need service C.

Shed Geek:

So let us just quote you on all the things we do because you're going to need them, and what we've done is we've failed to lead the horse to water and let them drink on their own, blow them away with service A so that it creates a problem and a need for service B and service C. And this is one of the best examples I can give you of what we've learned. I feel like in the last six months, instead of trying to go all in and tell everybody everything and prove that we are who we are, we've almost kind of scaled back a little bit, David, and said like well, let's help you in what you need help with and let's blow your mind to the point to where you need another solution of something that we offer. Again sounds like a marketing pitch here, but it's a real case in itself.

David J Greer:

Let me go back to my running Rubell and being in the software industry. So, by the time I was 24 or 25, I was probably giving 80% of the trade show demonstrations, especially of our integrated software development environment. So, someone would come to the booth, and I would ask them questions for probably five minutes what programming language do you use? How many people? What's the approval process for new versions? Like your listeners, it doesn't necessarily relate because I'm not in the software business, but I asked these very specific questions and we had this horizontal tool that had hundreds of features and then I'd step up to the terminal, because we didn't have computers, we had terminals back then, and I would show them maybe 5% of the product back then and I would show them maybe five percent of the product, but I would show them the exact five percent that exactly match their environment and they felt seen, they felt heard and they felt that they had a solution that was very uniquely tailored just for them. And that's you know I get back to.

David J Greer:

Early in the conversation talked about pain, pain point and pain pill. It's that digging down to find out that one, two, three, four things that are the most important to them and then just showing that part of the product line that absolutely satisfies. That, yeah Right, like it's probably still only 5% of your product line or features that, yeah Right, like it's probably still only 5% of your product line or feature set, right, um, but it's the piece that really matters to them, right, right.

Shed Geek:

Right and really listening to them and their questions that they're asking, like those are the things that they're seeking to solve anyway. Like, just like with my formaldehyde experience. You know I told 30 customers after that we didn't have formaldehyde. And you know I told 30 customers after that we didn't have formaldehyde. And like 30 customers probably walking out of there going what the heck is he talking about? I didn't even need to know or didn't even care about formaldehyde.

David J Greer:

Or even you mentioned, like yeah prospect comes in and says you know what's the difference between? You know shed A and shed B, I'd first be tempted to like why are you asking the question? I'd first be tempted to like why are you asking the question? Or what's important to you, like is it price, is it construction quality? Like what is really important to you in the shed that you want to get, and then I'll be better able to tell you like what the?

David J Greer:

differences are between some of the sheds, but let me understand better your point of view. That's right, because oftentimes the best way to give the answer is to actually ask the question first. I'm not trying to avoid your question, but I feel I could give you a better answer if I understood better why you want the shed and what you're going to do with it and where it's going to be in the yard, and if you could tell me a bit more about that. I'll be much better able to answer your other questions.

Shed Geek:

We like to use a term called conditional logic. You know, based off of your answer, it conditions the logical response that I should have to take you down the path, based off of your question, so like I could be giving you information formaldehyde as an example, that's not necessarily needed, or even like the right of the conversation, but because of my previous experience oh, no, I didn't get the sale because of this I want to make sure they know, but they're not asking that question and we've really started to fine-tune different processes, uh, to just be better, to be sharper about those things, and you know, coaching has helped me with that. You know, seeking coaching and uh, yeah, it's. It's because you identify problems that you don't. You don't see one of my favorite uh books? Um, uh, it's over here. Um, well, I say it's over here.

Shed Geek:

I have to edit this out, because I'm struggling right now to never split the difference. Um, you know, uh, and one of the things that the author talks about in that was he created a program called the Black Swan Group, and the purpose of the Black Swan Group is to imagine looking out into a lake and there's, you know, 100 swans, and as those 100 swans look at each other, they see the same things, right? But there's one black swan in the middle of the hundred white swans. Well, guess what? All the attention gets focused on the black swan, but as the black swan looks out, it just sees other swans and figures it's just like them. Uh, so everyone can see the obvious thing. So, for instance, if you have a communication issue, everyone can see it sometimes, but you, if you have, you know, if you have a rudeness issue, everyone else sees and experiences it except for you. And you know what, if you have a rudeness experience, someone telling you you're rude doesn't go over very well, right?

Shed Geek:

Because you're probably going to be rude in your response. You're probably going to be rude in your response, but these are stepping stones to growth, no matter what it is. If it's time, attention, lack of customer service, maybe it's your product. I've had guys contact me and say like with our advertising, half our products sold this year was because we advertised on your program. I've had other guys who say I never got a call from anybody ever and I'm like okay, well, how do I break this process down? Right, like, is it your sales pitch? Is it your product? Is it your? I mean, there's a lot of things I can't control. I can get in front of the same people who had success over here and this area, but I can't make people buy anything over here because maybe they have your position in the industry is kind of, you know, maybe not one that that there's, you know, maybe it's not too good. Like, let's just take the right.

David J Greer:

And so, you have a branding problem that you need to go solve first, which is to change your perception out in the community. Yeah, the, you know that, entrepreneur, that's part of why I'm a coach, just because it is virtually impossible to see the problems in front of us. You know, I call it the. Your nose is pressed so hard into the bark of the tree that it feels very uncomfortable, but you don't even know what tree you're pressing your nose into, let alone what forest you might be standing in, and maybe I could help you take a step or two back and see a little bit more.

Shed Geek:

I think it's great. Somehow, we've managed to get 60 minutes in here instead of 45, but that's because you're a great conversationalist and I want to make sure people know again. You can go to our newsletter. You can click on the website. You can find out more about Coach David. You know he's offering up a free hour for anybody who contacts him for a discovery call to see if maybe more business exists between the two of you. Maybe it doesn't, but a conversation never hurt anybody.

David J Greer:

Well, I promise you will have one idea to accelerate your business in the next 90 days after an hour with me. Promise Excellent.

Shed Geek:

Excellent. Any final thoughts that you want to give before we were in here today? David, I've enjoyed this conversation thoroughly.

David J Greer:

I got one final. I got one final thought have fun. If you're not having fun running your business, like why bother you're not having fun running your business, like why bother if you're not bouncing out of bed in the morning, like looking forward to going to your business and looking after your customers, like something needs to change? So, absolutely, that's really my, my final thought, because I think that's what we're in the business. Businesses are brick, are really darn hard, and so you know, make sure you're having fun while you're building them.

Shed Geek:

Great advice. Couldn't have asked for anything better. Thank you so much for being on the show today, David. I hope people take advantage of your one-hour offer there and I certainly encourage them to check out the Shed Geek podcast. You know newsletter and you guys make sure you go and join, like the private group shed sales professionals. We've got a lot of cool conversations and things like that happening on there. If you ever have any questions for us, feel free to contact us. If you want to be on the show, feel free to contact us. No story is a story we're not interested in telling, Even if you compete with us. Come on, tell us about your product, Advertise it. We can't serve everybody anyway, so feel free to give us a call. We want to see others win. We believe in win-win. So thank you, David, so much for being on the show.

OUTRO:

Thanks again, ShedPro, for being the Shed Geek's studio sponsor for 2025. If you need any more information about ShedPro or about Shed Geek, just reach out. You can reach us by email at info at Shedgee k. com, or just go to our website, www. shedgeek. com and submit a form with your information and we'll be in contact right away. And submit a form with your information and we'll be in contact right away. Tha nk you again for listening, as always, to today's episode of the Shed Geek Podcast. Thank you, and have a blessed day.